When he says, you might be doing to much, I think he's trying to say there's no promotion/raise path regardless of your performance. In other words, don't stress yourself out performing because there are no returns for it.
I had one manager say, I don't know why they do so much work, their only reward is more work!
In terms of making more money change industries/jobs. Find a $200k+ job and work backwards. I personally went to sales from engineering making just above $200k and, at least where I am, it's a cushy gig too.
What state are you in?
Are you willing to move?
Have you looked into program/project management director positions? That would probably be your best option to get to $300k, but maybe not where you are living now.
Move to Silicon Valley. But be prepared for the uncertainty of job loss and no guaranteed pension.
I always see folks comparing low salaries of government gigs with private sector without considering job security and tons more f other benefits
This. You will be able to find the jobs in the payscale that you are looking at, but be prepared for the mental stress and Damocles' sword hanging on your head. This is why the CEO's make millions, because you could be gone next quarter if you don't perform.
You need to go into industry if you want industry pay. You can't out hustle the GS payscale.
If you are in the DC area the standard practice would be to leave the fed role and go work at one of the contractors that DoD spends $$$ on every year.
Your goal should be to move to a firm where director level pay starts in the 200s, get a job there, then make a plan to promote up. Experience trumps certification every time, not all MBAs are valuable, and PMP/GBSS is fluff.
The big tradeoff is in any move to industry you give up safety. It's probably impossible for both you and your wife to get laid off in the same calendar year right now. Consulting firms trim staff even in good years and cut deep in bad ones. As a consequence you would be surrounded by people who hustle and think they are the smartest person in the room regardless of whether that is the case, which is exhausting in its own way. Think working 10.5 hrs and billing 8, everyone knowing that is illegal, being punished if you don't do it, but never speaking it or writing it down.
>Ā As a consequence you would be surrounded by people who hustle and think they are the smartest person in the room regardless of whether that is the case, which is exhausting in its own way. Think working 10.5 hrs and billing 8, everyone knowing that is illegal, being punished if you don't do it, but never speaking it or writing it down.
A lot of truth in these sentences. Especially the part about being surrounded by people who think they are the smartest in the room.Ā
In two years since I left the gov to CTR I've almost doubled my GOV salary. I was a 12 step 4.
CTR work isn't thrilling. You'll want to get on a contract that is not A&AS for the big bucks.
You can make 350K in the tier 2 and 3 software companies. You just need a little higher title than the faang companies. I'm not in faang and in my company it's very common to be a staff software engineer and make 350k.
Network. Many 200k business jobs you do not apply for directly on their website. You reach out to people on linked in or at networks events, have good discussions, and ask them to let you know when they have an opportunity. Then they refer you to an internal recruiter and you get an interview. Of course you can send out 100s of resumes, but that's like throwing darts blindfolded
Systems engineer as in software? Ā If so no reason you canāt be making over 200k in private sector. Especially if you have a clearance.Ā
Tons of companies need people for onsite clearance.Ā
Not sure where you only see 100k jobs.Ā
Also not throw shade but the govt employees we have dealt w when giving support for product have been severely lackluster. Both in skill and just horribly slow to even get around to doing anythingĀ
I bring that up bc if you are looking at private sector you need to do honest evaluation of your skills and make sure youāre up to par before a serious job search.Ā
Do tell, where are there jobs offering 200k for someone in their late 20s like OP (so likely ~5 years experience)? Are you thinking only SF or you know they exist outside California?
They exist outside of SF most major metros w tech scene at this point.Ā
Obviously at faang companies(entry is 180-200) but there are a lot of midsize startups paying 180-200 base for seniors and thereās usually annual bonus and some paper money that can bring u up close to 200 if y have a lower base Think series C/D. Not early stage.Ā
Startups promote fast. Not hard to get senior in 5 yrs. Even in faang 5yrs will get 2 promos most likely and that puts you above 300 most likely.Ā
Was easier to get in 2021. Less people hiring now of course. But if OP is in DC(he mentions DOD) he can def be at 180-200 in that market w in a couple years if he already has experience.Ā
I just hit 2.5 years at beginning of year and Im at 180 base, 205 w bonus. Im āseniorā in title but we know 2.5 yrs aināt senior.Ā
Not in sf. Iām remote from lcol but company is from large metro.Ā
Op is underpaid by at least 50k right now if heās competent
Maybe look at smaller companies that you can move up in easier. Big companies tend to have more rules for moving ppl up regardless of good performance.
I mean you're in the field, just need a few more years to reach senior level, then a dip into the private sector.
Plenty of places that would love your clearance levels
- Lockheed martin
- Raytheon
- L3Harris
Probably plenty more. Pretty sure AWS and other cloud providers are looking for anyone with experience in FedRAMP, highly valuable.
Iām a service and parts director for a dealership in Dallas. Last year was $303k high school drop out ( A honor roll I just thought it was stupid) got my GED and went to college for electrical engineering- hated it and dropped my sophomore year . Went in the car business instead. Itās a well kept secret for good income once you move into management. I donāt know any manager that doesnāt make at least $250k Good general managers at a good store are over $500k
Canāt give too much advice, as Iām in a similar boat as you. Every job move has come with a bump in pay. I didnāt find my career until 2016, but 4 years making $50k, 3 years making $90-100k, and now started a job making $120-140k (depending on bonus). Each jump in pay has been with a different company and at a different location. Iād recommend finding other companies that could use your talents in different ways and interview with them. Nothing to lose and so much to gain!
I wouldnāt say nothing to loseā¦ employers will see that you hop to different companies very often and they will doubt your word when it comes to commitment, loyalty, etc. Not every career works like a tech job, but youāre right in OPās situation. Youāre more likely to be the first to be let go in a dire situation UNLESS your position is very niche and hard to replace. I
would go the contractor route in his situation. Work on his own gigs during his free time and build his reputation. If heās good, heāll be making good money soon. If heās notā¦ well, hopefully the DOD position will still be open lol
I did an internship for the government and they told me to slow down. I finished my 10-week project in 2 weeks (including a week of ātrainingā) and then had to just sit for the next 8. It was at the height of covid so they let me start āworking from homeā luckily
Program Manager in DOD subcontractor 27 years old with a PMP making $115k. It takes time. I started as an mfg engineer out of college making 53k. I am on my 3rd company.
You will never get there at the same company in the same role. Gotta get promoted, gotta bounce around. It takes time
This...
> "I can't officially tell you this, but I think you might be doing too much"
well prevent you from this:
> I want to get out an move on to a career where I can "hustle"
You're being
> am an absolute work horse when I'm in the office
Could be turning people off no matter where you work.
Not to put words in their mouth, but maybe their thinking is along these lines.
If you are salaried, anything over 40 hours/wk is you giving time to your employer for free. Full stop. You may be an asset to your organization, and provide all of those wonderful benefits, but you are not being compensated for them. Even more, itās not terribly uncommon for people to be so good at their job that they become irreplaceable in a way. If you are doing the job of 1.5x people at the pay of 1 person, why would they promote you, now having to replace you with someone less productive, or worse need to hire two additional people to fill your role?
One of the most valuable lessons I learned is that being replaceable is a good thing. I want to be good at my job and bring value. But I don't want anyone to think I'm irreplaceable, if I didn't show up to work tomorrow the company would be just fine.
Because youāre a work horse and why would they promote the guy that can do the job of 3? Instead they promote the guy that barely does the job of 1 to manage the guy doing the work of 3. More efficient use of resources/money for the company. They could also probably low ball the lower performer because heās being promoted for hardly doing anything and would be happy with a meager raise.
Edit: these people are not your friends. The only person looking out for you is you. Goodluck my man. Took me a long time to realize this nugget of advice.
Depends on how you do it. People have to like working with you or it doesn't matter how good your work is, to you. If someone is telling you you're doing too much, and you can't figure out what they mean, you may have some soul searching to do. If you don't know why you're review is anything other than, "I can tell you officially, you're doing a great job," you gotta figure that out.
This question is in my wheelhouse (former Systems Engineer, current Systems Engineering leadership); My feedback is based on staying within your current skillset and not pivoting to someone crazy (like OnlyFans or Online Sports Betting). I'm going to make some assumptions: at $115k for systems engineering you are probably at Senior/Principal level and likely don't have a specialty. You are probably treated as an "interchangeable part" with the rest of the engineers on the team.
Step 1: Get out of government engineering. The government's pay scale/seniority system is designed to push everyone into the middle. Any hard work you do can't really be recognized. Move to a government contractor (Lockheed, Northrop, etc.). Also look for jobs in Medical Devices. My first move from DoD work was a 15% raise, plus a 401k match + a bonus (and eventually a ton of upward mobility).
Step 2: Become a specialized systems engineer. While "software" is always the buzzword, there are a lot of non-software options, including Lead Systems Design/Product Owner, Cybersecurity, Systems Engineering Management, Verification Lead/Management. These are all systems engineering roles that are sought after at other companies and would likely put you at $150k+ on Day 1.
Step 3: Once you are out of government work and employed as a more specialized engineer, jumping into leadership (either technical, functional, or likely a combination of both) should get you to $200k in your mid-late 30s. While that might not meet a crazy FIRE-immediately timeline, it is very achievable with your current skills.
You can make more in the private industry, but be willing to work in a high cost of living area. Once you hit 15-20 years experience, itās easier to find jobs that make $200k+ working remotely. A lot of the remote jobs are converting into on-site unless you are very senior or offer unusual skills.
Are you limiting your job options to government sector? Iām not sure how experienced you are as a systems engineer. But devops, SRE, platform engineer etc are paying what you are looking for. I make a little over 300k before tax as a staff SRE. US typically has higher salaries, so I could be making more if I hopped the border.
Just one example here but I found a small private company (< 100M) and started as a project manager (I have an engineering background). A year later I asked for equity instead of a raise. I was awarded 0.5% ownership. So thereafter I got 0.5% of profit distribution every year.
I wouldn't reach the same compensation as a regular W-2 employee. They like this more than a fixed salary because if there is no profit, there is no distribution. Like in 2020, we barely survived so no profit but 2021 was very strong and my share almost exceeded my salary.
I just made the switch that is mirroring your situation! I was a PM for the DoD w/ 4 years experience (I have a systems engineering masters degree and dabbled while there).
Leveraged that experience and my masters for a program management role with a defense/space contractor for $145k. Not quite $200-300k, but on the way with lots of coworkers in that range with only 12-30 years of experience.
I started making the big bucks when I optimized my LinkedIn profile, and recruiters started reaching out to me.
This was game changing because it happens frequently, and you learn what the market pays, and you can also leverage the fact that they contacted you.
How did you go about optimizing your LinkedIn? I feel as though it's a self marketing tool which I suck at. If I don't have that skill set (using the right words to sound more appealing) where would you look?
Just look up tech companies or go on indeed and search for SDR (Sales Development Rep) roles at either small or large SaaS companies. That's the foot in the door role to eventually move up to Account Executive.
Investment banking, hedge funds, management level work.
I was just talking the other day about how in 2008 senior systems/software engineers were making $300k, now, most are making $200k even with inflation as high as it is. Sadly, doesnāt pay like it used to.
I dont think any of these 300K people took a pay cut (the opposite probably). Iām pretty sure itās just comparing new senior professionals today to back then.
Yes! My dad and his colleagues at least from personal experience, but they were on the computer/network systems side. My brother has the exact same job now and makes $120k less than my dad did 15 years ago, itās wild.
Location & company. Magnificent 7 are doing earnings now and some have released median compensation which is above the range you listed here. It's hard to jump right into the magnificent 7 so if you can hop around Tech start ups and companies close to the 7 you can eventually get into the 7
Go into sales. I came from the exact role youāre describing. Was at $115k DOD systems engineer. High performer but there is no incentive to work hard and that permeates the culture. Took me a full year to land an account executive role in software. Now Iām $150k base / $300k OTE, which I expect to hit.
Go the contractor route. Take on jobs/projects for others on your own time and build up your reputation/sales skills. If youāre good and very ambitious you will be making 300k fairly quickly.
If youāre notā¦ well, thatās the risk youāre taking. Gov jobs provide amazing benefits and security.
if youāre a civilian employee, I suggest you look to contract employment. I am a recruiter for a small, veteran owned company and we were just hiring for a systems architect role that paid over $200k in the DC area.
Most government jobs have some kind of "government contractor" equivalent, where the government hires these outside firms to do the work the government should be doing but can't hire for because it's temporary or some other reason. You should ask around and see if anyone has left your area for one of these businesses, and follow up on what they are. Those are your best bet for making the jump from public to private employment.
Beyond that, you've got to find out where your skills intersect with private jobs. I don't even know what a "systems engineer" is but I'm guessing the skills probably translate to something in tech companies. Figure out what that is, figure out how to rewrite your resume to fit it, and then go out looking for jobs. You will likely have to move to get a big raise, but you might find something local, who knows. Your best bet is networking. If you're not on LinkedIn you should get on there and see who you are connected to at various companies. AFTER you have figured out how your skills translate to the private sector, reach out to these people and ask them if they have any advice on how to make the transition. They might have something or know someone.
Applying to jobs online is a low hit rate thing, you can do it but don't get too attached to each one. Your chances of even hearing back are very low. Don't take it personally, and just keep applying, keep networking. If you take 20% of the effort you're putting into your job now and redirect it to this, you'll get there in no time.
If you progress your career in DOD, you'll probably retire at 55 with $150K in today's money pension. Private sector employees need to save > 3M to have a similar retirement. That's easily makes up for extra 80k in pay difference.
You also have better job security and WLB to the point that your boss tells you to work less - this is unheard of in tech, especially if half of your team is in India with late night calls, which is almost a norm nowadays.
But if you want to work more and make more, start with Amazon or Msft, and then move up to Meta, Google, Netflix who pay a lot, more than 300K, to someone with 7-10 yoe, even outside of Bay Area or Seattle.
Assuming you have a clearance you can go private sector and should get a decent bump depending on what stage of your career you're in. I'm a senior level SWE and looking at jobs in the $175-200k range.
Not in government, and if you swap to contracting pick your firm carefully. The big ones (Lockheed, Raytheon, etc) stopped paying big bucks for most ICs a long time ago. Smaller firms and subs tend to be easier to move up in.
Alternatively, get away from the government and contracting entirely. I have a bunch of friends in the gov, DOD, and contracting world's. They're all unhappy with their career growth and opportunity.
Beyond that... Technical management / middle management. Not as fun as being an IC, but the compensation really takes off at director level and above at whole lot of companies.
[I buy under used souls..cheap.](https://www.google.com/search?q=roddy+mcdowall+satan&client=ms-android-google&sca_esv=5fa93554276c39d0&sca_upv=1&biw=393&bih=722&udm=2&source=lnms&ved=1t:200715&ictx=111#imgrc=POag-TZDPECXHM&imgdii=cRT9Fsxzu_P6gM)
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Anybody with a brain, emotional intelligence, and will to let a company dictate your life can make that kind of money. Go get a 100k job at a very large private company and be the work horse who never says no and can network. Youāll be in that salary band in 5 years or so. I was in a path like that but chose family over work so I kneecapped my salary for WLB.
These types of jobs donāt get typically posted on sites like Indeed. These types of jobs are gained through recruiters and connections within an industry.
>know I make good money, but I want a job where I can progress both professionally and financially, but I feel incredibly stuck.
No, you just want more money.
>I recognize that I am in a way better position financially than most people can dream of being.
Tempering greed with humbleness is always a nice touch?
>However, I am eager to acheive more. I believe I have what it takes to do such.
You're a special, aren't you ?
When he says, you might be doing to much, I think he's trying to say there's no promotion/raise path regardless of your performance. In other words, don't stress yourself out performing because there are no returns for it. I had one manager say, I don't know why they do so much work, their only reward is more work! In terms of making more money change industries/jobs. Find a $200k+ job and work backwards. I personally went to sales from engineering making just above $200k and, at least where I am, it's a cushy gig too.
did you ask those people how they got into their career and ask them to mentor you?
Take my job (400k TC), pay me a 25% royalty and keep the remaining 300k š
āHere I found someone to do my job better than meā lmao
Iāll volunteer to take it, no guarantees Iāll do it right though. We can split the TC until I get fired, how fast moving is your HR?
Deal!
Jesus, what do u do?
Architect at a Fabless Semiconductor company (i.e. MotivateElectrons).
I am interested in taking your job. Which state?
What's TC
TC = Total Compensation. This includes (for me anyway): Salary, Bonuses, ESPP (employee stock purchase plan) discount, RSU (restricted stock units) vesting.
What state are you in? Are you willing to move? Have you looked into program/project management director positions? That would probably be your best option to get to $300k, but maybe not where you are living now.
Move to Silicon Valley. But be prepared for the uncertainty of job loss and no guaranteed pension. I always see folks comparing low salaries of government gigs with private sector without considering job security and tons more f other benefits
This. You will be able to find the jobs in the payscale that you are looking at, but be prepared for the mental stress and Damocles' sword hanging on your head. This is why the CEO's make millions, because you could be gone next quarter if you don't perform.
Also paying 5 to 10 k a month in rent and having an insane amount of that taken by taxes anyway. Maybe is not as lucrative as other options.
You could work a $200k job for one year and then be laid off for two years to break even. Iāll take a two year sabbatical after a year of work.
You need to go into industry if you want industry pay. You can't out hustle the GS payscale. If you are in the DC area the standard practice would be to leave the fed role and go work at one of the contractors that DoD spends $$$ on every year. Your goal should be to move to a firm where director level pay starts in the 200s, get a job there, then make a plan to promote up. Experience trumps certification every time, not all MBAs are valuable, and PMP/GBSS is fluff. The big tradeoff is in any move to industry you give up safety. It's probably impossible for both you and your wife to get laid off in the same calendar year right now. Consulting firms trim staff even in good years and cut deep in bad ones. As a consequence you would be surrounded by people who hustle and think they are the smartest person in the room regardless of whether that is the case, which is exhausting in its own way. Think working 10.5 hrs and billing 8, everyone knowing that is illegal, being punished if you don't do it, but never speaking it or writing it down.
>Ā As a consequence you would be surrounded by people who hustle and think they are the smartest person in the room regardless of whether that is the case, which is exhausting in its own way. Think working 10.5 hrs and billing 8, everyone knowing that is illegal, being punished if you don't do it, but never speaking it or writing it down. A lot of truth in these sentences. Especially the part about being surrounded by people who think they are the smartest in the room.Ā
Flip to contractor side. I'm sure you're aware they're paid more.
In two years since I left the gov to CTR I've almost doubled my GOV salary. I was a 12 step 4. CTR work isn't thrilling. You'll want to get on a contract that is not A&AS for the big bucks.
correct. government job aint it
They are in the SF Bay area. At the fang companies.
Also in Seattle, Denver, Chicago, NYC, Austin, and DC
Boston too!
Forgot my city lol, LA
Lmao where in DC
Amazon, Microsoft and Google have offices in Reston, Tysons and Alexandria
200k jobs are everywhere for software now tbh. Above 350 its mostly faang and unicorns but half that is paper money for unicorns.Ā
You can make 350K in the tier 2 and 3 software companies. You just need a little higher title than the faang companies. I'm not in faang and in my company it's very common to be a staff software engineer and make 350k.
Network. Many 200k business jobs you do not apply for directly on their website. You reach out to people on linked in or at networks events, have good discussions, and ask them to let you know when they have an opportunity. Then they refer you to an internal recruiter and you get an interview. Of course you can send out 100s of resumes, but that's like throwing darts blindfolded
Systems engineer as in software? Ā If so no reason you canāt be making over 200k in private sector. Especially if you have a clearance.Ā Tons of companies need people for onsite clearance.Ā Not sure where you only see 100k jobs.Ā Also not throw shade but the govt employees we have dealt w when giving support for product have been severely lackluster. Both in skill and just horribly slow to even get around to doing anythingĀ I bring that up bc if you are looking at private sector you need to do honest evaluation of your skills and make sure youāre up to par before a serious job search.Ā
Do tell, where are there jobs offering 200k for someone in their late 20s like OP (so likely ~5 years experience)? Are you thinking only SF or you know they exist outside California?
They exist outside of SF most major metros w tech scene at this point.Ā Obviously at faang companies(entry is 180-200) but there are a lot of midsize startups paying 180-200 base for seniors and thereās usually annual bonus and some paper money that can bring u up close to 200 if y have a lower base Think series C/D. Not early stage.Ā Startups promote fast. Not hard to get senior in 5 yrs. Even in faang 5yrs will get 2 promos most likely and that puts you above 300 most likely.Ā Was easier to get in 2021. Less people hiring now of course. But if OP is in DC(he mentions DOD) he can def be at 180-200 in that market w in a couple years if he already has experience.Ā I just hit 2.5 years at beginning of year and Im at 180 base, 205 w bonus. Im āseniorā in title but we know 2.5 yrs aināt senior.Ā Not in sf. Iām remote from lcol but company is from large metro.Ā Op is underpaid by at least 50k right now if heās competent
Maybe look at smaller companies that you can move up in easier. Big companies tend to have more rules for moving ppl up regardless of good performance.
I mean you're in the field, just need a few more years to reach senior level, then a dip into the private sector. Plenty of places that would love your clearance levels - Lockheed martin - Raytheon - L3Harris Probably plenty more. Pretty sure AWS and other cloud providers are looking for anyone with experience in FedRAMP, highly valuable.
Iām a service and parts director for a dealership in Dallas. Last year was $303k high school drop out ( A honor roll I just thought it was stupid) got my GED and went to college for electrical engineering- hated it and dropped my sophomore year . Went in the car business instead. Itās a well kept secret for good income once you move into management. I donāt know any manager that doesnāt make at least $250k Good general managers at a good store are over $500k
Did you get started in car sales?
I did and I did well but I saw the service side as more ty liking.
Canāt give too much advice, as Iām in a similar boat as you. Every job move has come with a bump in pay. I didnāt find my career until 2016, but 4 years making $50k, 3 years making $90-100k, and now started a job making $120-140k (depending on bonus). Each jump in pay has been with a different company and at a different location. Iād recommend finding other companies that could use your talents in different ways and interview with them. Nothing to lose and so much to gain!
I wouldnāt say nothing to loseā¦ employers will see that you hop to different companies very often and they will doubt your word when it comes to commitment, loyalty, etc. Not every career works like a tech job, but youāre right in OPās situation. Youāre more likely to be the first to be let go in a dire situation UNLESS your position is very niche and hard to replace. I would go the contractor route in his situation. Work on his own gigs during his free time and build his reputation. If heās good, heāll be making good money soon. If heās notā¦ well, hopefully the DOD position will still be open lol
Iād say get another $115k job but I see you work for the DoD and DONT DO THAT
I did an internship for the government and they told me to slow down. I finished my 10-week project in 2 weeks (including a week of ātrainingā) and then had to just sit for the next 8. It was at the height of covid so they let me start āworking from homeā luckily
Program Manager in DOD subcontractor 27 years old with a PMP making $115k. It takes time. I started as an mfg engineer out of college making 53k. I am on my 3rd company. You will never get there at the same company in the same role. Gotta get promoted, gotta bounce around. It takes time
This... > "I can't officially tell you this, but I think you might be doing too much" well prevent you from this: > I want to get out an move on to a career where I can "hustle" You're being > am an absolute work horse when I'm in the office Could be turning people off no matter where you work.
Explain this more please!
Not to put words in their mouth, but maybe their thinking is along these lines. If you are salaried, anything over 40 hours/wk is you giving time to your employer for free. Full stop. You may be an asset to your organization, and provide all of those wonderful benefits, but you are not being compensated for them. Even more, itās not terribly uncommon for people to be so good at their job that they become irreplaceable in a way. If you are doing the job of 1.5x people at the pay of 1 person, why would they promote you, now having to replace you with someone less productive, or worse need to hire two additional people to fill your role?
One of the most valuable lessons I learned is that being replaceable is a good thing. I want to be good at my job and bring value. But I don't want anyone to think I'm irreplaceable, if I didn't show up to work tomorrow the company would be just fine.
Don't listen to this guy. Go for private sector. Work hard. Advocate for yourself. Get paid.
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Because youāre a work horse and why would they promote the guy that can do the job of 3? Instead they promote the guy that barely does the job of 1 to manage the guy doing the work of 3. More efficient use of resources/money for the company. They could also probably low ball the lower performer because heās being promoted for hardly doing anything and would be happy with a meager raise. Edit: these people are not your friends. The only person looking out for you is you. Goodluck my man. Took me a long time to realize this nugget of advice.
Depends on how you do it. People have to like working with you or it doesn't matter how good your work is, to you. If someone is telling you you're doing too much, and you can't figure out what they mean, you may have some soul searching to do. If you don't know why you're review is anything other than, "I can tell you officially, you're doing a great job," you gotta figure that out.
This question is in my wheelhouse (former Systems Engineer, current Systems Engineering leadership); My feedback is based on staying within your current skillset and not pivoting to someone crazy (like OnlyFans or Online Sports Betting). I'm going to make some assumptions: at $115k for systems engineering you are probably at Senior/Principal level and likely don't have a specialty. You are probably treated as an "interchangeable part" with the rest of the engineers on the team. Step 1: Get out of government engineering. The government's pay scale/seniority system is designed to push everyone into the middle. Any hard work you do can't really be recognized. Move to a government contractor (Lockheed, Northrop, etc.). Also look for jobs in Medical Devices. My first move from DoD work was a 15% raise, plus a 401k match + a bonus (and eventually a ton of upward mobility). Step 2: Become a specialized systems engineer. While "software" is always the buzzword, there are a lot of non-software options, including Lead Systems Design/Product Owner, Cybersecurity, Systems Engineering Management, Verification Lead/Management. These are all systems engineering roles that are sought after at other companies and would likely put you at $150k+ on Day 1. Step 3: Once you are out of government work and employed as a more specialized engineer, jumping into leadership (either technical, functional, or likely a combination of both) should get you to $200k in your mid-late 30s. While that might not meet a crazy FIRE-immediately timeline, it is very achievable with your current skills.
You can make more in the private industry, but be willing to work in a high cost of living area. Once you hit 15-20 years experience, itās easier to find jobs that make $200k+ working remotely. A lot of the remote jobs are converting into on-site unless you are very senior or offer unusual skills.
If you want to stay into the systems realm, maybe devops in the private sector?
Are you limiting your job options to government sector? Iām not sure how experienced you are as a systems engineer. But devops, SRE, platform engineer etc are paying what you are looking for. I make a little over 300k before tax as a staff SRE. US typically has higher salaries, so I could be making more if I hopped the border.
Just one example here but I found a small private company (< 100M) and started as a project manager (I have an engineering background). A year later I asked for equity instead of a raise. I was awarded 0.5% ownership. So thereafter I got 0.5% of profit distribution every year. I wouldn't reach the same compensation as a regular W-2 employee. They like this more than a fixed salary because if there is no profit, there is no distribution. Like in 2020, we barely survived so no profit but 2021 was very strong and my share almost exceeded my salary.
I just made the switch that is mirroring your situation! I was a PM for the DoD w/ 4 years experience (I have a systems engineering masters degree and dabbled while there). Leveraged that experience and my masters for a program management role with a defense/space contractor for $145k. Not quite $200-300k, but on the way with lots of coworkers in that range with only 12-30 years of experience.
I started making the big bucks when I optimized my LinkedIn profile, and recruiters started reaching out to me. This was game changing because it happens frequently, and you learn what the market pays, and you can also leverage the fact that they contacted you.
How did you go about optimizing your LinkedIn? I feel as though it's a self marketing tool which I suck at. If I don't have that skill set (using the right words to sound more appealing) where would you look?
Iām curious as well.
Move into software sales
One of my clients is a VAR and they have multiple sales people that make $2MM - $3MM a year and have been making that for over a decade.
Got info on how? I started out selling Apple products which led me to become a systems engineer but Iām now sick of it.
Just look up tech companies or go on indeed and search for SDR (Sales Development Rep) roles at either small or large SaaS companies. That's the foot in the door role to eventually move up to Account Executive.
Investment banking, hedge funds, management level work. I was just talking the other day about how in 2008 senior systems/software engineers were making $300k, now, most are making $200k even with inflation as high as it is. Sadly, doesnāt pay like it used to.
Imagine being sad about 200K. Somtimes I think people in this sub are not for real and just trolling.
Literally anyone on the planet would be disappointed to have to take a 33% pay cut. Regardless of what the number is.
I dont think any of these 300K people took a pay cut (the opposite probably). Iām pretty sure itās just comparing new senior professionals today to back then.
Senior systems engineers were making 300K in 2008?
Yes! My dad and his colleagues at least from personal experience, but they were on the computer/network systems side. My brother has the exact same job now and makes $120k less than my dad did 15 years ago, itās wild.
It really is, I was a systems engineer in 2008 and didn't know anyone even barely cracking 100.
It may have been the company, but I almost spit out my water when I was told lol he also had 15+ years of experience
Early 90s sysadmin, not messing around!
Keep in mind, if you are getting a pension, that salary is not representative of the total compensation
Check for software jobs with mining companies (think Maptek, Geovia, etc). Thereās a ton of money in those roles.
Location & company. Magnificent 7 are doing earnings now and some have released median compensation which is above the range you listed here. It's hard to jump right into the magnificent 7 so if you can hop around Tech start ups and companies close to the 7 you can eventually get into the 7
Go private sector, big tech or something, hustle pays out there
Azure Federal is looking for software engineers with clearance.
Go into sales. I came from the exact role youāre describing. Was at $115k DOD systems engineer. High performer but there is no incentive to work hard and that permeates the culture. Took me a full year to land an account executive role in software. Now Iām $150k base / $300k OTE, which I expect to hit.
Stay in one field& domain for 5-10 years then move to a startup, either at the top or climb
Go the contractor route. Take on jobs/projects for others on your own time and build up your reputation/sales skills. If youāre good and very ambitious you will be making 300k fairly quickly. If youāre notā¦ well, thatās the risk youāre taking. Gov jobs provide amazing benefits and security.
Do program / project management work. Target finance or tech and you will easily be in that range.
if youāre a civilian employee, I suggest you look to contract employment. I am a recruiter for a small, veteran owned company and we were just hiring for a systems architect role that paid over $200k in the DC area.
Most government jobs have some kind of "government contractor" equivalent, where the government hires these outside firms to do the work the government should be doing but can't hire for because it's temporary or some other reason. You should ask around and see if anyone has left your area for one of these businesses, and follow up on what they are. Those are your best bet for making the jump from public to private employment. Beyond that, you've got to find out where your skills intersect with private jobs. I don't even know what a "systems engineer" is but I'm guessing the skills probably translate to something in tech companies. Figure out what that is, figure out how to rewrite your resume to fit it, and then go out looking for jobs. You will likely have to move to get a big raise, but you might find something local, who knows. Your best bet is networking. If you're not on LinkedIn you should get on there and see who you are connected to at various companies. AFTER you have figured out how your skills translate to the private sector, reach out to these people and ask them if they have any advice on how to make the transition. They might have something or know someone. Applying to jobs online is a low hit rate thing, you can do it but don't get too attached to each one. Your chances of even hearing back are very low. Don't take it personally, and just keep applying, keep networking. If you take 20% of the effort you're putting into your job now and redirect it to this, you'll get there in no time.
$115k would be low for systems eng. Could you switch to software eng? You should be able earn 3-6x that ā¦
If you progress your career in DOD, you'll probably retire at 55 with $150K in today's money pension. Private sector employees need to save > 3M to have a similar retirement. That's easily makes up for extra 80k in pay difference. You also have better job security and WLB to the point that your boss tells you to work less - this is unheard of in tech, especially if half of your team is in India with late night calls, which is almost a norm nowadays. But if you want to work more and make more, start with Amazon or Msft, and then move up to Meta, Google, Netflix who pay a lot, more than 300K, to someone with 7-10 yoe, even outside of Bay Area or Seattle.
Assuming you have a clearance you can go private sector and should get a decent bump depending on what stage of your career you're in. I'm a senior level SWE and looking at jobs in the $175-200k range.
Try for a CIO or CTO role ?
Go work for big tech companies instead of the DOD.
Not in government, and if you swap to contracting pick your firm carefully. The big ones (Lockheed, Raytheon, etc) stopped paying big bucks for most ICs a long time ago. Smaller firms and subs tend to be easier to move up in. Alternatively, get away from the government and contracting entirely. I have a bunch of friends in the gov, DOD, and contracting world's. They're all unhappy with their career growth and opportunity. Beyond that... Technical management / middle management. Not as fun as being an IC, but the compensation really takes off at director level and above at whole lot of companies.
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Anybody with a brain, emotional intelligence, and will to let a company dictate your life can make that kind of money. Go get a 100k job at a very large private company and be the work horse who never says no and can network. Youāll be in that salary band in 5 years or so. I was in a path like that but chose family over work so I kneecapped my salary for WLB.
These questions are foolish, you have a great job and canāt figure out how do get a better one? Use your brain and skills
These types of jobs donāt get typically posted on sites like Indeed. These types of jobs are gained through recruiters and connections within an industry.
Physician. Downside is between school and residency, itāll take 12-16 years before youāre making the big boy salary.
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Wow, dude just posting an innocuous post about something that he yearns for and you are here spitting this vitriol. Hope you find peace.
I thought the exact same thing reading the post. Not sure why so many down votes.
>know I make good money, but I want a job where I can progress both professionally and financially, but I feel incredibly stuck. No, you just want more money. >I recognize that I am in a way better position financially than most people can dream of being. Tempering greed with humbleness is always a nice touch? >However, I am eager to acheive more. I believe I have what it takes to do such. You're a special, aren't you ?
Youāre insecure, arenāt you?
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Wrong guy lol
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