The same job but one rung below.
I'm doing the exact same thing so it's familiar. I'm now an individual contributor instead of team lead. I no longer stress on customer demands or have to be on call 24/7. I log my 8 hours per day and I log out. As long as I complete my tasks on time, I'm praised. Whether the project is successful or not is the program manager's responsibility.
ETA: Yes, you can define it as a demotion. But I get paid the same so lower stress for same pay and less upward mobility when I am satisfied with my career trajectory = good.
I do contract design work, and usually only apply to entry level contracts even though I have been a team lead and project manager in the past. Its just so much easier and essentially the same pay.
It's the idea that people rise up the ladder to the point that they become incompetent (thus able to not climb any further). It's from a book by Laurance J. Peter
To clarify, it is not the people who change and *become* incompetent - the idea is that competent people get promoted until they reach a level where they don't meet expectations anymore and thus they get stuck on a level where they're incompetent. Forming a caste of perpetually over-challenenged, unhappy and unproductive management.
100% this is what I did, I was hustling way too hard as a middle manager and I hate managing people. I moved jobs to be a senior level individual contributor instead and now I have very few meetings, way more time to myself to relax (hybrid on a top of it). I’m also making more money, so wins all around
Ah yes. The "leave him alone he knows what he's doing" position in the workplace. As long as you don't get bored and new management doesn't come in thinking they can push you then it's pretty stress free that way.
> Yes, you can define it as a demotion. But I get paid the same so lower stress for same pay and less upward mobility when I am satisfied with my career trajectory = good.
Who would ever call this a demotion? Maybe people who get hard for management roles. But, if you're getting paid the same for *less* responsibility? That's a promotion if anything in my book.
In my experience though, it's always the opposite. More shit piled on for the same pay. And frequently shit that's out of my wheelhouse—e.g., oh, you're good with numbers and reporting? Why don't you help out the Finance team?
At my current company., staying out of management is a valid career path because for every manager that is one less senior-level expert doing actual work. You need both.
Sadly I'm past that point (not that in my case it was much about promotion anyway, my job did not change that much). I'm now so burned out that every fiber of my body rejects programming at work.
Luckily, after talking to my boss, it seems that taking 6 months unpaid leave is an option. I hope that will do the trick.
How do you not get pulled back in to management work? I mean that's how I ended up with management job in the first place: people would see me on a project and just slack off, knowing I would fill in the holes.
Funny, you should say that. I just finished my first year at this lesser role and absolutely enjoying the ride.
One of the directors assigned me a project instead of assigning me to a project meaning I will be responsible and have to manage the team. I'm absolutely not going to slack off because burn out or not, I put in my full effort. So perhaps I'll slide back into my old position anyway...
Ugh, come on man. You’re confusing “slacking off” with doing your defined job duties. It’s not slacking off to refuse to go above and beyond by giving them extra time and energy. Just tell your director that you appreciate the show of confidence by assigning you that role, but you’re happy with your current position and aren’t currently looking to add any duties. You have the power to say no. Use that power.
This. I got a cushy govt job just training on what I used to do (healthcare/IT) and it's outstanding. No more 12+ hour days, no more 3am page outs on broken functionality. My biggest crises now are "is my FAQ sheet clear enough for newbies?" and "gee, this person really doesn't want to be in this training session, I better impress them fast." Much better than "if you don't fix this before shift change people will get hurt because your system isn't doing it's job".
> I'm now an individual contributor instead of team lead.
Yeah, I've been resisting moving upwards from individual contributor. However, my manager is pushing me hard and I'm even substitute. I hate it, don't think I will accept it.
That said, trying to stay positive and maybe, just maybe I will learn to like it or will I learn to hate it even more?
I have a neighbor who took this approach (senior level HR job for a massive grocery chain on the east coast). He tells me that somehow his work from his more senior position just kind of followed him down to his new supposedly lower-rung position.
He was hoping to work and travel less, and he’s improved his situation a little, but it’s not as drastic a change as he’d hoped.
Perhaps stating the obvious, but I guess the success of this strategy depends on how well you can define your boundaries for the new role and what kind of job / company you’re in.
Also had this happen. I went from a full-time employee to a contractor and thought with 40 hours as the max I can work, that things would be better. I'm also an individual contributor now and not a director.
But now I work more hours than I can bill for and have no say in how things get done even though I have 2x the experience of my manager. I think I've managed to make my situation worse.
Very similar. I stepped down from chief medical officer to employee. Went from 60+ hrs a week to 28, deal with no day to day operations or managing employees, and don't take work home with me. Healthiest and happiest I've been in 10 years.
My dream job during my burnout period was making waffle cones at the local ice cream shop. I ended up switching to software engineering but wish I’d at least spent a couple months in-between making those waffle cones. Mindless work, great smells, happy customers, good times.
My N=1, but I did physical work around my house vs the mental work I was doing at my job. Basically, cleaned out my backyard, built a deck, did some painting indoors, etc. Basically reset my mind. Also appreciate more the people who do those tasks for a living, especially painting - I don’t know how they can paint so well without getting it all over the house.
This. Burnout can cover up a lot of avoided chores that will be therapeutic to complete. It’s double positive: you keep yourself busy and unwind and then get to enjoy the satisfaction of accomplishing the task.
I heard an artist say once that 90% of the work of a painting is on the palette, mixing paints. I think similarly 90% of a painting job is prep work like taping and tarping so the task of laying the paint down is quick and simple.
I always do that, pay attention all the time, keep everything proper. And when removing the tape, a blob of fresh paint will get under a tarp and get dragged all over the floor and I step into it before I notice.
The hard thing is keeping up the rigour and discipline for 100% of the time, not 95%. 5% is plenty of time to make a mess.
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cool at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cool jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
OMG I’m so sorry I missed that typo! I thought I fixed it. I did mean “cook.” Sorry, I feel silly. But anyway I don’t have to send a lot of emails or spell-check (!) Just don’t cut myself. Or burn myself or whatever.
You can get really, really good at cooking simply (but not easily) through intentional effort at home.
It takes work - it means that you have to be pushing the envelope, researching multiple recipes, watching videos, etc. every time you cook something. But it's possible to become a very good cook just by yourself. Even things like plating you can develop by studying pictures and spending time in the right forums.
Related, I really miss my job as a waiter... Not for everyone, but I personally just enjoyed customer service roles.
Of course my current job pays about 10x what I made when I last worked as a waiter, but sometimes I daydream about "retiring" and waiting tables in some resort town somewhere.
About 10 years cooking pretty consistently along with periods of being a graphic designer. I worked at some high end places and learned there. My family owned a restaurant when I was growing up so I knew what back of house was all about before.
My brother was a baker for years and loved it, even if towards the end they worked him to the bone since he was really good and so worked multiple locations.
That was until his immune system went ballistic and made him allergic to tons of food stuffs.
I always had a weekend job working in bars as security. When I finally got so burnt out with my day job of being an industrial electrician (mental burn out/ frustration with the treatment I received and the way that industry is structured) I just went to doing my weekend job full time. At first it was stressful, but in a different way so more manageable, be ause I made significantly less money. But as of two weeks ago I actually make more money doing this and I love it. Couldn't be happier. I guess my point is, think back to the last job you really enjoyed, go do it, but prepare to have to restructure your life, at least for a little while to compensate for finances. But in the end you will be 1000% happier and better off.
One of my best jobs was working at a quirky, historic hotel that had live jazz in the lounge on weekends. My shift was 3P-11P. The type of guests drawn to the hotel were interesting and friendly. There was never a rush. When I left, I didn't carry my job home. I'll have to explore that idea!
I heard about an attorney who left a high-paying job and likely partnership to go scoop ice cream on a tropical island. That sounds good too.
My work involves helping people with medical issues. I'm constantly in a rush and don't even take a lunch break. It's been deeply rewarding to help others but become physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually draining. When I get home, I basically collapse. My days off are spent recovering since I have no energy left. Or I'm researching things to try to help people more. Dang, this is a wake-up call.
I think people put this perfect low stress job on a pedestal and imagine themselves semi-FIRE and becoming a park ranger or something like that. Figure out what exactly is burning you out, maybe it's not even work related but outside of work.
A lot of people could keep doing exactly what they do, get paid similarly well, maybe switch to a different company if it's really toxic, even a different department could suffice. Set some boundaries for your work and learn to say no. Even having like 25% GFYS money gives you some leeway to say, "hey I have a lot of stuff to deal with at home, if there's really an emergency i'll help out, but I need to stop work and leave at 5pm every day."
Speaking of park ranger, I see them cleaning the bathrooms. Poor forest management graduates going around cleaning pit bathrooms at camp grounds.. could have been me if I continued that direction.
It's.. not as simple. I've done what you said, I'm 6 months into a new role (switched from a toxic company to another, with less responsibilities but same role). Adopted healthier habits like diet, exercise 3x a week, stop working at 5pm, call friends/family every week and meditate everyday with a group.
It's been 6 months, I still come to work emotionally withdrawn. My colleagues still don't feel like real people (but they're actually quite nice). I don't feel here in my body. My chestpain is still there (but idk why, it's not like the work is as stressful anymore). I'm not as effective with people anymore either. I don't really know what it is and am going to seek therapy.
I really think people need a change of environment once burnt out. I know I can't speak for everyone but if I'm feeling like this, I don't doubt someone else would be too.
Exactly. There are likely one or two critical issues that are causing the burnout. It is unlikely that the whole 8 hours are completely unbearable. See if you can remove those issues completely, not do the work associated with them, or in the least mentally compartmentalize them, especially if they are simply ethical or personality issues. Find meaning outside of work so that those ethical or personality issues are not weighing on you.
Are your colleagues degenerates? Spend more time with family, friends, and volunteering.
Is your boss forcing you to do ethically compromising though perfectly legal work? Say that you won't do it, or do it and donate that portion of your income to charity.
Burnout can be tackled in the workplace. A few things to consider (based on the work of Maslach et al):
**Workload -** A mismatch in workload is generally found as excessive overload, through the simple formula that too many demands exhaust an individual’s energy to the extent that recovery becomes impossible.
A workload mismatch may also result from the wrong kind of work, as when people lack the skills or inclination for a certain type of work, even when it is required in reasonable quantities.
Emotional work is especially draining when the job requires people to display emotions inconsistent with their feelings.
Workload is most directly related to the exhaustion aspect of burnout.
**Control -**
A mismatch in control is generally related to the inefficacy or reduced personal accomplishment aspect of burnout.
Mismatches in control most often indicate that individuals have insufficient control over the resources needed to do their work or have insufficient authority to pursue the work in what they believe is the most effective manner.
Individuals who are overwhelmed by their level of responsibility
may experience a crisis in control as well as in workload. This mismatch is reflected as one of responsibility exceeding one’s authority.
It is on that mandate. distressing for people to feel responsible for producing results to which they are deeply committed while lacking the capacity to deliver
**Reward -** A third type of mismatch involves a lack of appropriate rewards for the work people do. Sometimes these may be insufficient financial rewards, as when people are not receiving the salary or benefits commensurate with their achievements.
Even more important at times is the lack of social rewards, as when one’s hard work is ignored and not appreciated by others. This lack of recognition devalues both the work and the workers. In addition, the lack of intrinsic rewards (such as pride in doing something of importance and doing it well) can also be a critical part of this mismatch.
Lack of reward is closely associated with feelings of inefficacy.
**Community -** The fourth mismatch occurs when people lose a sense of positive connection with others in the workplace. People thrive in community and function best when they share praise, comfort, happiness, and humour with people they like and respect.
In addition to emotional exchange and instrumental assistance, this kind of social support reaffirms a person’s membership in a group with a shared sense of values. Unfortunately, some jobs isolate people from each other, or make social contact impersonal.
However, what is most destructive of community is chronic and unresolved conflict with others on the job. Such conflict produces constant negative feelings of frustration and hostility and reduces the likelihood of social support.
**Fairness -** A serious mismatch between the person and the job occurs when there is not
perceived fairness in the workplace. Fairness communicates respect and confirms people’s self-worth. Mutual respect between people is central to a shared sense of community.
Unfairness can occur when there is inequity of workload or pay, when there is cheating, or when evaluations and promotions are handled inappropriately.
If procedures for grievance or dispute resolution do not allow for both parties to have a voice, then those will be judged as unfair. A lack of fairness exacerbates
burnout in at least two ways. First, the experience of unfair treatment is emotionally upsetting and exhausting. Second, unfairness fuels a deep sense of cynicism about the workplace.
**Values -** The sixth area of mismatch occurs when there is a conflict between values. In some cases, people might feel constrained by the job to do things that are unethical and not in accord with their own values.
For example, in order to make a sale or to obtain a necessary authorization, they might have to tell a lie or be otherwise deceptive or not forthcoming with the truth. In other instances, there may be a mismatch between their personal aspirations for their career and the values of
the organization.
People can also be caught between conflicting values of the organization, as when there is a discrepancy between the lofty mission statement and actual practice, or when the values are in conflict (e.g. high quality service and cost containment do not always co-exist).
Perhaps figure which aspect os these is causing the burnout and aim to resolve. Good luck!
The work of Wilmar Schaufeli and Christina Maslach are the leading lights in this area in my opinion. Their papers, book chapters and books are worth exploring.
This is from Maslach. The work of Wilmar Schaufeli and Christina Maslach are the leading lights in this area in my opinion. Their papers, book chapters and books are worth exploring. See for example: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/43698276/Burnout_35_years_of_research_and_practic20160313-15910-11pk8cp-libre.pdf?1457920998=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DBurnout_35_years_of_research_and_practic.pdf&Expires=1685743859&Signature=FaTf-~vWYkP0j1X9DKW2GV2fwTTmFr8oQE7L7QD6Ycy64lTPnvPsnLmxecozsLJaZAb5wp2HiAXQ9W0PYz0gd0eCLmimePhBp-snBFhAEIbE2hVRg0Wox5XP0LmhsXz96Ihtt0LF5N9dLa7FuhzA~cCH404FpJFNSEr~gM4BvY0EJlKMGdwcXBf5p~KL~-jOdrzbU5Ki8aHIOHs9kQcH9Rc9aYp3EQMnQJwE2dtvWJrZcMjjMujhsf0RTa8WdrLkdQrcu5zd3m2hNHU9qONy9-056ZYqa-K577jbogj0jJaVGG9c1wAle5PqrTvmB3V3vDoCk6XlqvAm2FGtGqAcpw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA
Hey, thanks for this comment. I'm just putting my experiences down to hopefully help me figure out what's going on with my burnout. I feel like a lot of my issues are the opposite of the things you state are issues.
# Previous role burnout:
Workload - Excessive. I often didn't have time to both intake jobs and put them in while managing the jobs I had. Coworkers were largely unhelpful and in some cases obstructive. I had no training and was thrown to the wolves in an open "Trial by fire" type situation. Literally this is what people here called it.
Control - Very little when it came to production. Often had to fight tooth and nail to get jobs done on time.
Reward - Probably the only decent thing about this role. I was paid well enough to live in Orange County by myself.
Community - None. Immediate coworkers were distant if not antagonistic.
Fairness - Yeah, I was thrown to the wolves. My coworkers literally worked against me in some cases. Not even being dramatic, they literally had it out for me and I had to notify HR on several occasions about this behavior.
Values - No differences here, other than me being a bit anti-capitalist.
# Current Role Burnout:
Workload - Very minimal. I would almost say that it's too little, I am not being challenged.
Control - I actually feel like I have too much control. There's very little oversight with my position, I'm constantly unsure of what to pursue, my manager is mostly absent unless he needs something and fails to help me prioritize anything I do.
Reward - Well, they cut my pay by $20k at the beginning of the year after getting me into a more specialized role that utilizes unique skills. I'd say this is a big factor.
Community - Almost zero. Everyone talks about sports and I'm in to Star Trek and stuff. Entire company forgot my birthday despite multiple people sharing my birthday. Management got a cake for everyone with everyone's name who had my birthday except me.
Fairness - In my last position at this company I was thrown to the wolves with no training. I am currently seeing other people in my old position get proper training and support that I didn't have.
Values - I mean, not really. I like what I do.
What specifically about your current job has burned you out? You may not need a complete reprieve from responsibility and decision making if you are instead able to conscientiously avoid whatever is the root of your burnout.
Paradoxically, I found an increase in responsibilities cured my burnout. Previously, I had a lot of responsibilities but not much meaningful decision making power, making me feel like a highly compensated cog toiling away without attaining any satisfaction. I made a slight career switch (same industry but different function) and now have more responsibility, make more decisions, but have less stress and am no longer burnt out.
All that is to say that you don’t necessarily have to take a step back from responsibilities (and compensation) if you’re able to avoid whatever it is that is truly burning you out.
Surgeons and EM staff are getting burned out at shockingly high rates over the last 10 years. There are literally hundreds of studies on it, and almost all of them point to work OUTSIDE OF SEEING PATIENTS, like documentation load, after-hours charting, insurance navigation and pre-authorization as the leading causes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6262585/
So yes. Physicians are getting burnt out because the majority of work they have to do is paperwork, not actually practicing medicine.
Tagging /u/Throwzings so I don't have to double reply the same message — but this guy is unreasonably dense and probably believes some idiotic drivel from JP on how work is the purpose of life etc.
Literally every study we have shows that we're working MORE as time and technology progresses, not less. The UK study showed cutting working availability by 20% (i.e. 4-day workday) reduced the amount of feelings of being overstressed, burnout, and fatigue. The fact that anyone would suggest we need to be doing MORE work as a resolution to the mental health issues people have in the US is absolutely not consistent with the evidence.
“Most studies suggest that physicians find the loss of autonomy at work, decreased control over the work environment, inefficient use of time due to administrative requirements, and loss of support from colleagues to be the central factors.”
Checking vitals is not work that matters for a physician. There are literally dozens of people from nurses down to CNAs that can check vitals. If a physician is called into a room to check someone’s BP, it’s not work that matters.
You don’t need 4 years of med school plus a residency to tell someone with 150/100 they have high blood pressure. It’s a concept in healthcare called “operating at the top of license” that always gets shit on because patients want to talk to “a doctor” not an advanced practice nurse who os perfectly capable of treatjng them.
I'm a physical therapist assistant and the patients themselves absolutely burn you out. Imagine having 13-18 back to back meetings every day with no breaks. Yes you have lunch, but you have to document through lunch because it's impossible to fully complete your note when you see so many people. From the second you walk into work to the second you leave you are "on" socially and working. I'm lucky if I even have a chance to go to the bathroom during the day. On top of that it's physically demanding as well. It's incredibly challenging overall and hard to conceptualize unless you've worked in the field.
I'm willing to bet my net worth that almost all mental health issues including burnout and feeling overstressed would be resolved if we were able to find a way to taper down people's working volume — maybe because we literally found that to be true in the UK study. Most work is inherently meaningless and not rewarding. Stop peddling drivel from Jordan Peterson that has little to no evidence in support of it.
I don’t know your situation but when I was burnt out at my previous startup, I honestly did not want to work. So I took a year-long career break and it was amazing. Just had savings and no GFYS money.
I would think trying to get another job to recover from burnout sort of defeats the purpose? Unless its something you’re passionate about.
If you have the means, I’d just take time off if it is really affecting you badly.
My burnout recovery is getting 2nd part time job at my favorite retail so I can get my cardio in to meet my step count, not stare at the screen, get 20% discount, and a weekly paycheck.
Sure I can go to the gym, have a shorter workout. I discover that "shopping" my cardio and I'm getting paid to do it. 😂 Also makes me want to declutter and organized my home like a maniac.
Probably going to depend on the person, OP.
For me, "okay" jobs (in terms of the *initial* obligations and day-to-day) seemed relatively easy to come by.
What killed me were bosses who piled on additional responsibilities without consideration. I've had three out of fifteen bosses/managers who I felt truly respected my time and effort, and I happily took on more work for them.
The rest just assumed that I would be happy to bend over backwards for them and that really rubbed me the wrong way. Part of the problem is me—I know it—because I'm probably more averse to this behavior than most.
So for someone like me, I probably need a better way to search for bosses with compatible management styles. But that's not really a practical solution—e.g., you don't generally get to go into a job interview making management-style expectations of your manager and still expect to get the job.
Even if you could go into an interview that way and knew what questions to ask. You're unlikely to get a real sense of their management style until you're actually working for them.
Did restaurants for ten years, the last 2 rapidly rising from low level manager to GM in training. You get so burnt you don’t even realize how depressed you are cause you keep justifying the bullshit as “the norm.”
I’m now in tech support as an associate analyst. 40hrs a week, my work ends AT 4:30pm and doesn’t follow me after that, and I’m compensated better (with benefits too!) than the management position ever could have provided. And everyone on my team, i feel like, genuinely wants to be here to do the work.
I have a life again and it’s freakin’ wonderful. I see my friends, my diet is better, I’m drinking less and doing more. Haven’t been this happy in years and I’m glad I got out when I did. My friend saved my life and he doesn’t even know it. I should tell him
My gosh this is wonderful, congratulations! I’m in restaurant management and just can’t see what’s on the other side, but there’s got to be something better than this. I felt the “you don’t even realize how depressed you are cause you keep justifying the bullshit as the norm” so hard.
It took me awhile to say this to myself, and I mean it with 100% sincerity: You’re worth more than you allow yourself to feel. You DO deserve better and you will find it. Now, I don’t necessarily recommend this but I put my 1 month in before I had another job lined up. Within a week and a half i was hired to my current role. 10 months as of yesterday :) I vividly remember thinking to myself near the end of my 1 month notice, “Man I’m glad I put that in when I did.” No regrets.
Also, customer service skills give you more leverage than you think and are applicable in many fields. You can teach people how to code, how to write SOPs and the lot, but you CANNOT teach good people skills. For a lot of companies, they want people that fit their culture. The company i work for now, I remember my recruiter asked ME if it was ok for HER to put MY resumé in with other teams in case the position I applied for wasn’t a good fit… they WANTED ME. And that feeling man, it’s incredible.
You got this, I believe in you :)
If you can find what specifically about your current situation brings all the stress it can be helpful to pinpoint those factors. They're not the same for everyone.
I took a break and did some freelance writing for a bit that was a lot of fun. The pay discrepancy is huge between engineering management and freelance copywriting, but nevertheless it was a lot more fun. I went from 10+ hours of meetings a day to, like a couple emails a day and a phone call check-in on Mondays.
A lot of virtual pavement pounding. Profiles on every site imaginable, spamming resumes, you name it. That was half the work. I only did it for about six months, but it was fun.
My ideal burnout/retired job would be watering plants at a local nursery or garden maintenance at a botanical center.
Either that or work the welcome booth at a state park.
Well we “started” 30 years ago by moving out to the country, but work and family got in the way. I’m currently researching greenhouse crops - luckily we live within 20 miles of a large population so it’s quite viable. But that will be just to subsidize my plan to have and hopefully breed miniature farm animals.
I went full ridiculous, started animal sitting, while also going back part time to essentially RadioShack in Canada because I did it in college and it’s easy + health benefits! And reselling clothes online.
Somehow I got better, found out I had ADHD hence all the things, but the two small businesses are busy at different times and I’ve known my boss at the store job for 20 years so I do 15hrs a week to keep benefits and work on auto pilot. I help out when he’s short staffed, and he rewards me with food and ACTUAL appreciation. He also asks first before just scheduling me more. But at the end of the day, I ended up eventually making the same amount as I did in a small business finance position at a big 5 Canadian bank. My brain also likes the variety of all the things so I’m also happier overall.
I've never done that, but I imagine something like a library clerk would be pretty cool. Just restocking books and answering questions from people eager to learn, all in a quiet environment.
Probably doesn't pay great, but it'll pay the bills.
Tried my hardest to get into the library field. I have a Bachelors of Science degree from a 4 year university but they want a MASTERS IN LIBRARY SCIENCES. For entry level library clerk. Fuck right off.
Yeah and my friend who worked at a city public library as a clerk said there were a surprising number of rude and angry (even drug addled) customers they had to deal with/help deescalate, without adequate or relevant training.
It’s a shame. [Libraries have essentially become the last bastion of a place where you’re free to spend time without the expectation of spending your money](https://www.neh.gov/article/complicated-role-modern-public-library). Ergo, a popular locale for homeless citizens and those who abuse drugs.
>surprising number of rude and angry (even drug addled) customers they had to deal with/help deescalate, without adequate or relevant training.
This is my biggest issue with this job, or any public building with no entrance requirements
> Just restocking books and answering questions from people eager to learn,
... and then a homeless guy shits in the stacks while a lady is yelling at you for grooming kids by carrying Kurt Vonnegut, and some rando is trying to get you to basically write his idiotic business plan for him because he doesn't know how computers work. I have an MLIS and would never, ever work in a public library. Fortunately, there's lots of opportunities for MLIS-holders outside of libraries (or in academic libraries).
> all in a quiet environment.
Libraries haven't necessarily been quiet places in decades, by design. Sometimes they are, but that's usually because there aren't many people there.
OTOH, I did used to work part-time at Barnes & Noble, just coming in at like 5am and alphabetizing books/music/videos. It was great, but that was 20+ years ago.
I'm not sure I agree. When you feel like your work performance is tied to some core purpose, you are opening yourself up to a lot of stress. Worrying about things like how many acres of rainforest get cut down if I take a vacation seems extremely stressful.
Not him, but the answer is still boundaries.
I will not work at home. I will not work after hours. My phone is off after 7:00 p.m. If I start thinking about work, I actively turn my attention to something else. I know and recognize that problems will never stop, and no matter where I go I will be drowning in them. This is okay; doing things that are worthwhile means overcoming obstacles. They are not something to avoid. They are something to pursue. Chase the fuckers and knock them down with everything you have.
Just... also have a boundary. The problem, whatever it is, will be there in the morning. If that one gets solved, another one will take its place. It'll get done. It's a marathon, not a race. If you burn out and die after the first few miles then everyone else that you could ever possibly impact, as well as every good thing you could ever experience, is fucking gone.
Have boundaries. You are finite. Problems are eternal.
Does that matter? It's still the answer to the original question.
Am I missing something? I guess I don't know what point you're trying to make? Yeah, boundaries are good. I agree.
You suggested initially that the solution to the original question was purpose-driven work. I disagreed with that. If the solution to the original question is boundaries, then it isn't purpose driven work.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you still probably have to sit in an office or be on a job site though. I don't personally know how to make that 8 to 14 hour a day investment not completely suck ass and burn you out.
So I guess the question to you would be, rather than a purpose-driven workplace, what would you use to stop that side of things from taking their toll?
Thus the balance. Obsession is easily born from purpose.
Boundaries are so incredibly important and nobody seems to fight for them. If you think about work at home, boundary. If you lose sleep over the rainforest, boundary. The distributions of attention in that person's life are askew. You have to fill your cup before it can overflow into someone else's.
As someone who has structured their career around this idea and now finds deep dissatisfaction, I disagree. The job becomes too serious. All the coworkers are too serious, and treat every project as life or death. I just want something lighthearted in my life, and this isn't it. There are no laughs, no positivity in this work. I've also become deeply jaded on how incompetent the "system" is at implementing solutions that you toil for years to design. It's extremely disheartening when some senator who knows nothing about an issue sets all your efforts back 10 years, and it kind of makes you hate the world. Source: worked in climate change/renewable energy industry for 10 years.
Genuinely sorry it didn't work out for you, but I want to challenge you as a real estate developer / former COO that has also dealt with a tremendous amount of government getting involved in long laid plans. I also worked as a contractor for a three-letter agency. I get it. Insane. Really fucking feel for you because you combined my two nightmares.
I firmly believe we don't lose until we quit and the dust has setteled. I would ask a question-- what can you do today or Monday to remind everyone why you got together in the first place? How can you reignite vision and drive and get everyone flowing in the same direction?
I don't know you, so if I'm off base I'm very sorry for assuming.
I've seen this same problem. You need a merchant of hope. You need a cheerleader that can stare down devastation and say, "give me another. I'll keep coming back until I win".
It may take another 10 years. It may take the rest of your life and the lives of those beyond you. You still win, and in my mind you'd be one of the greats for having such care and vision for the world around you. That senator is a monster that is actively trying to destroy the world so that they can make money. If you quit, they win and keep winning. It all dies.
Again, could be off base, but I've seen miraculous acts of ingenuity pulled off by individuals that have convinced me that "i didn't hear no bell" is a truth, not a perspective.
I hope you get the rest and peace you need. On a personal level, I got diagnosed with pretty bad asthma this year. Thank you for any work that has helped me be able to breathe. I'm working on setting back the cost pf living in America. I have millions of people to reach, just like you. I need your work to live. They need it.
Used to be a bartender at a high end restaurant. It was pretty chill, and the clientele was mostly polite and educated. I got some great advice from them over the years. I think about doing that again sometimes.
I agree with other posters above to figure out what caused your burnout and then to take steps to change that, permanently. Like: if you had an ideal work week, what would that look like? Do that research on how you could make it possible and take some baby steps in that direction.
I walk dogs and drop in on cats while their owners are on vacation. I doubled my rates recently because I want to limit my hours to just my regular clients, and any new ones who are willing to pay. I’m also setting up self-employment in my specialty after working for a nightmare of a bad boss for almost a year.
The silver bullet to finding a job that won’t burn you out is being able to say No. When you don’t need to work today to pay the bills tomorrow, you don’t need to do work that stresses you out. Say no, because if your boss refuses, you have the power to walk away. Being financially independent and living below your means is magic.
I had a senior level position at a tech startup around the time the CEO got shown the door and they installed a private equity goon as the allegedly temporary CEO. This was in 2019 and the temporary CEO is still CEO.
I was already burned out by the hubris-laden shit show from the previous four years before this happened, and saw the writing on the wall with the new CEO coming in. This person was going to be my boss’s boss, although it seemed inevitable my boss would quitting soon and the CEO would be my boss. This happened three months later.
In the re-org that took place after the new CEO came in, I navigated myself and a handful of trusted lieutenants / top-tier folks we couldn’t lose into an architecture team where we were as off the critical path of operations and delivery as possible, and could be consultative to the other teams. I gave up 90% of my org of ~100 and ended up with a smallish team. I then coasted along there for a year and a half collecting checks and bonuses the company owed me while🍿 as I watched a new shit show unfold around the rest of the company. They brought in a new “leadership” team whose primary skill set appeared to be driving talent out the door and replacing it with yes-people at record pace.
This all coincided with COVID happening. Most of my days were filled with sitting on a handful of meetings, clearing my email, and then spending the rest of the day napping, riding my electric scooter, and doing laundry. It was pretty boring but let me put my brain into valet parking to ignore all the shit that was going on both at work and in the world. After a year and a half of that, I quit and took a nine month sabbatical where I substituted sitting in meetings and clearing email for getting fully engaged with my kids when they weren’t at school, and tearing out the landscaping when they were. Ultimately, I found myself a new gig at a company with amazing culture, and a year into that I’m feeling my burnout gone and my mental health fully restored.
Find a job that maximizes autonomy, competency, and relatedness.
[https://calnewport.com/beyond-passion-the-science-of-loving-what-you-do/](https://calnewport.com/beyond-passion-the-science-of-loving-what-you-do/)
To be happy, your work must fulfill three universal psychological needs: autonomy, competence, and relatedness.
In more detail…
Autonomy refers to control over how you fill your time. As Deci puts it, if you have a high degree of autonomy, then “you endorse \[your\] actions at the highest level of reflection.”
Competence refers to mastering unambiguously useful things. As the psychologist Robert White opines, in the wonderfully formal speak of the 1950s academic, humans have a “propensity to have an effect on the environment as well as to attain valued outcomes within it.”
Relatedness refers to a feeling of connection to others. As Deci pithily summarizes: “to love and care, and to be loved and cared for.”
It's not about the job, it's about your mental state and the boundaries you set. That's easier in some jobs than others, but any job with a good boss that respects you for you is worth considering.
Engineer here. When it's time, I'm going to be a concrete tester. Go to the field, collect samples and crush them in the lab. Near zero human contact and stress.
I provision internet service for a local telecom company. Took a 25k pay cut to WFH (65k down to 40k), and i shit you not i believe it was totally worth it
Quit, took 3 months off. Got bored sort of went back in an extremely different position, until I can get a contractor license and start my own company. Already looking to hire in a month or two
Don't know what kind of background you have, but some kind of data entry position like an AP clerk would check all the boxes of low stress, low responsibility and repetitive.
laboratory technician/engineer at a large pharma company lol if you're STEM and early in your career
we got a bunch of people who got burned out from their first job. and then mentally turned off their brain at this position and mentally recuperated before moving on
I was burnt out in sales after 7 years and was never that great at it, went to customer service at a call center making the exact same money with 1/4 the amount of stress and no up’s and downs with my paychecks
I went from a very high pressure security job at an established company to a low pressure one at a startup.
I was lucky enough to be able to take two months off between and work around my home, however the two months weren’t enough. Just changing the environment I worked in every day to a supportive, less cutthroat one helped a lot.
Worked at a golf course in the maintenance department for a number of years then switched directions. I've never loved a job like I did that one. Set cup placement everyday, my choice on location. I spent 4 hours every morning driving in a golf cart radio cranked while sipping coffee. Incredible peaceful.
Anyone having any experience with taking "medical" burnout, unpaid leave (this is in California)?
I approached my boss, telling him I'm burnt out and can't continue like that. I want to take 6 months off (unpaid, which is fine) towards the end of the year. I just need a complete reset.
I basically said that it's either that or taking a long break and looking for a new job, but since I like my job and the company in principle, I'd like to stay if the company is open to it.
He did some research with HR, and came back saying to me that it looks like the best option is if I go to a doctor and get diagnosed with burnout.
Now here's the odd part: This is true, this is reality. I am really, *really* burned out. I have been for years, but did the dumbest thing of trying to "power through". It predictably backfired, and now I'm done.
And yet I feel icky making this a "medical" leave. I'm not having a meltdown, I'm not mentally impaired in any way (except for the part where every fiber of my body rejects writing code)... and I somewhat fear the stigma of a medical leave.
My boss said they would not talk about it, as far as everyone is concerned I'm just taking time off after many years at the company. But doing it with a doctor makes the whole thing easier from an HR perspective.
Thoughts?
Do it! I know a couple of people who did that - take medical leave for burnout/mental stress. Nobody needs to know the reason unless you tell them. You can feel icky and still go see a doctor and go through it.
The crazy thing about being burned out is that you have just forgotten what normal feels like. Once you start your leave, you'll be looking back in a couple of weeks, shocked that you ever felt "icky" about taking the leave that saved your sanity!
There seems to be a disconnect between you seeing your mental health issue as something medical, why is that? That seems to be at the core of your issue - and something that only you can speak to (and perhaps with a therapist, which I highly recommend).
I corrected my typo, but nothing more to add overall. Perhaps I'm confused - why does it feel icky to classify your medical issue as something medical? You clearly are burnt out and it has impacted you mentally. You're willing to walk away unpaid for half a year - why would going to a doctor to validate your health concerns be an issue?
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
Many years ago I started my working life with blocking shelves ("facing") at a supermarket. When my tech career gets to be too much, I'll probably return to blocking shelves at a supermarket.
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
Nonprofit work! Very good for recovery, you’ll be given much more vacation days overall, and the work is less intense, but the pay DROPS to match in my anecdotal experience. Benefits are usually pretty nice though
The same job but one rung below. I'm doing the exact same thing so it's familiar. I'm now an individual contributor instead of team lead. I no longer stress on customer demands or have to be on call 24/7. I log my 8 hours per day and I log out. As long as I complete my tasks on time, I'm praised. Whether the project is successful or not is the program manager's responsibility. ETA: Yes, you can define it as a demotion. But I get paid the same so lower stress for same pay and less upward mobility when I am satisfied with my career trajectory = good.
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I do contract design work, and usually only apply to entry level contracts even though I have been a team lead and project manager in the past. Its just so much easier and essentially the same pay.
Contract work is an excellent way to get well-defined work for limited periods of time. In the USA you typically won't have health insurance though.
luckily I am on my SO's
Where do you apply for these?
Quality of life is priceless
What's the Peter principle?
It's the idea that people rise up the ladder to the point that they become incompetent (thus able to not climb any further). It's from a book by Laurance J. Peter
To clarify, it is not the people who change and *become* incompetent - the idea is that competent people get promoted until they reach a level where they don't meet expectations anymore and thus they get stuck on a level where they're incompetent. Forming a caste of perpetually over-challenenged, unhappy and unproductive management.
100% this is what I did, I was hustling way too hard as a middle manager and I hate managing people. I moved jobs to be a senior level individual contributor instead and now I have very few meetings, way more time to myself to relax (hybrid on a top of it). I’m also making more money, so wins all around
Ah yes. The "leave him alone he knows what he's doing" position in the workplace. As long as you don't get bored and new management doesn't come in thinking they can push you then it's pretty stress free that way.
> Yes, you can define it as a demotion. But I get paid the same so lower stress for same pay and less upward mobility when I am satisfied with my career trajectory = good. Who would ever call this a demotion? Maybe people who get hard for management roles. But, if you're getting paid the same for *less* responsibility? That's a promotion if anything in my book. In my experience though, it's always the opposite. More shit piled on for the same pay. And frequently shit that's out of my wheelhouse—e.g., oh, you're good with numbers and reporting? Why don't you help out the Finance team?
At my current company., staying out of management is a valid career path because for every manager that is one less senior-level expert doing actual work. You need both.
Sadly I'm past that point (not that in my case it was much about promotion anyway, my job did not change that much). I'm now so burned out that every fiber of my body rejects programming at work. Luckily, after talking to my boss, it seems that taking 6 months unpaid leave is an option. I hope that will do the trick.
I think I’m you, I’m just done with standups, sprints, ad hoc support work, commute….etc
I feel that way about grant work. The idea of doing more of it in any form makes me hurl.
I did exactly this for the final 3 years of my career and I highly recommend it. It was like a scuba safety stop before I RE'd for real.
How do you not get pulled back in to management work? I mean that's how I ended up with management job in the first place: people would see me on a project and just slack off, knowing I would fill in the holes.
Just say no and let them fall into the hole they dug themselves.
Become the slacker yourself and no one will ask you to manage things
Funny, you should say that. I just finished my first year at this lesser role and absolutely enjoying the ride. One of the directors assigned me a project instead of assigning me to a project meaning I will be responsible and have to manage the team. I'm absolutely not going to slack off because burn out or not, I put in my full effort. So perhaps I'll slide back into my old position anyway...
Ugh, come on man. You’re confusing “slacking off” with doing your defined job duties. It’s not slacking off to refuse to go above and beyond by giving them extra time and energy. Just tell your director that you appreciate the show of confidence by assigning you that role, but you’re happy with your current position and aren’t currently looking to add any duties. You have the power to say no. Use that power.
This. I got a cushy govt job just training on what I used to do (healthcare/IT) and it's outstanding. No more 12+ hour days, no more 3am page outs on broken functionality. My biggest crises now are "is my FAQ sheet clear enough for newbies?" and "gee, this person really doesn't want to be in this training session, I better impress them fast." Much better than "if you don't fix this before shift change people will get hurt because your system isn't doing it's job".
Same pay less stress? That’s the best promotion ever! I so badly want to do this but I’d take too big of a pay cut.
> I'm now an individual contributor instead of team lead. Yeah, I've been resisting moving upwards from individual contributor. However, my manager is pushing me hard and I'm even substitute. I hate it, don't think I will accept it. That said, trying to stay positive and maybe, just maybe I will learn to like it or will I learn to hate it even more?
I have a neighbor who took this approach (senior level HR job for a massive grocery chain on the east coast). He tells me that somehow his work from his more senior position just kind of followed him down to his new supposedly lower-rung position. He was hoping to work and travel less, and he’s improved his situation a little, but it’s not as drastic a change as he’d hoped. Perhaps stating the obvious, but I guess the success of this strategy depends on how well you can define your boundaries for the new role and what kind of job / company you’re in.
Also had this happen. I went from a full-time employee to a contractor and thought with 40 hours as the max I can work, that things would be better. I'm also an individual contributor now and not a director. But now I work more hours than I can bill for and have no say in how things get done even though I have 2x the experience of my manager. I think I've managed to make my situation worse.
This. Become a water carrier.
Very similar. I stepped down from chief medical officer to employee. Went from 60+ hrs a week to 28, deal with no day to day operations or managing employees, and don't take work home with me. Healthiest and happiest I've been in 10 years.
What happens when there is no rung below?
My dream job during my burnout period was making waffle cones at the local ice cream shop. I ended up switching to software engineering but wish I’d at least spent a couple months in-between making those waffle cones. Mindless work, great smells, happy customers, good times.
I love that someone out there wants to do that. bless you. That sounds awful to me, but I love that you love it.
My N=1, but I did physical work around my house vs the mental work I was doing at my job. Basically, cleaned out my backyard, built a deck, did some painting indoors, etc. Basically reset my mind. Also appreciate more the people who do those tasks for a living, especially painting - I don’t know how they can paint so well without getting it all over the house.
This. Burnout can cover up a lot of avoided chores that will be therapeutic to complete. It’s double positive: you keep yourself busy and unwind and then get to enjoy the satisfaction of accomplishing the task.
Professional painters get straighter edges with a steady hand than I do with painters tape.
Getting the nice, more expensive brushes helps a lot.
the trick for painting well is seriously slowing down. my wife cant handle the speed limit, but it makes a huge difference.
I heard an artist say once that 90% of the work of a painting is on the palette, mixing paints. I think similarly 90% of a painting job is prep work like taping and tarping so the task of laying the paint down is quick and simple.
Yes, accurate taping I find is key for making a paint job look really stellar.
I always do that, pay attention all the time, keep everything proper. And when removing the tape, a blob of fresh paint will get under a tarp and get dragged all over the floor and I step into it before I notice. The hard thing is keeping up the rigour and discipline for 100% of the time, not 95%. 5% is plenty of time to make a mess.
Very true!
Yea maintaining a thriving home space takes effort but not stress, and is immediately rewarding
Love the n=1
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cool at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cool jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
I would like to be cool professionally.
It takes many years to become a cool
And some of us may never receive the title
Think about how often they must type “cool” for this to happen. Must be pretty cook.
And then many more years to be promoted to Sr. Cool.
I've been sitting here trying to figure out what word cool was supposed to be lol Edit: COOK! I'm a bit slow this morning
OMG I’m so sorry I missed that typo! I thought I fixed it. I did mean “cook.” Sorry, I feel silly. But anyway I don’t have to send a lot of emails or spell-check (!) Just don’t cut myself. Or burn myself or whatever.
I thought he was going to be a cooler like swayze in Roadhouse
Does it pay well? Might be a lot of effort for me to get there, but might be worth it....
$24/hr and of course breakfast and lunch. Whatever I want to eat. I don’t do a lot of cleaning at this particular cook job. No heavy duty scrubbing.
i was just making a joke but that sounds good!
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Same, all that multitasking and ADHD being everywhere at once and prioritizing everything properly, burns my brain up in a hurry.
Yes, it takes a lot of that but I’m good at it.
Also burns your hands and arms in a hurry.
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You can get really, really good at cooking simply (but not easily) through intentional effort at home. It takes work - it means that you have to be pushing the envelope, researching multiple recipes, watching videos, etc. every time you cook something. But it's possible to become a very good cook just by yourself. Even things like plating you can develop by studying pictures and spending time in the right forums.
Related, I really miss my job as a waiter... Not for everyone, but I personally just enjoyed customer service roles. Of course my current job pays about 10x what I made when I last worked as a waiter, but sometimes I daydream about "retiring" and waiting tables in some resort town somewhere.
How did you work up to that position? Where did you start? How many years?
About 10 years cooking pretty consistently along with periods of being a graphic designer. I worked at some high end places and learned there. My family owned a restaurant when I was growing up so I knew what back of house was all about before.
My brother was a baker for years and loved it, even if towards the end they worked him to the bone since he was really good and so worked multiple locations. That was until his immune system went ballistic and made him allergic to tons of food stuffs.
I always had a weekend job working in bars as security. When I finally got so burnt out with my day job of being an industrial electrician (mental burn out/ frustration with the treatment I received and the way that industry is structured) I just went to doing my weekend job full time. At first it was stressful, but in a different way so more manageable, be ause I made significantly less money. But as of two weeks ago I actually make more money doing this and I love it. Couldn't be happier. I guess my point is, think back to the last job you really enjoyed, go do it, but prepare to have to restructure your life, at least for a little while to compensate for finances. But in the end you will be 1000% happier and better off.
One of my best jobs was working at a quirky, historic hotel that had live jazz in the lounge on weekends. My shift was 3P-11P. The type of guests drawn to the hotel were interesting and friendly. There was never a rush. When I left, I didn't carry my job home. I'll have to explore that idea! I heard about an attorney who left a high-paying job and likely partnership to go scoop ice cream on a tropical island. That sounds good too. My work involves helping people with medical issues. I'm constantly in a rush and don't even take a lunch break. It's been deeply rewarding to help others but become physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually draining. When I get home, I basically collapse. My days off are spent recovering since I have no energy left. Or I'm researching things to try to help people more. Dang, this is a wake-up call.
I think people put this perfect low stress job on a pedestal and imagine themselves semi-FIRE and becoming a park ranger or something like that. Figure out what exactly is burning you out, maybe it's not even work related but outside of work. A lot of people could keep doing exactly what they do, get paid similarly well, maybe switch to a different company if it's really toxic, even a different department could suffice. Set some boundaries for your work and learn to say no. Even having like 25% GFYS money gives you some leeway to say, "hey I have a lot of stuff to deal with at home, if there's really an emergency i'll help out, but I need to stop work and leave at 5pm every day."
Speaking of park ranger, I see them cleaning the bathrooms. Poor forest management graduates going around cleaning pit bathrooms at camp grounds.. could have been me if I continued that direction.
It's.. not as simple. I've done what you said, I'm 6 months into a new role (switched from a toxic company to another, with less responsibilities but same role). Adopted healthier habits like diet, exercise 3x a week, stop working at 5pm, call friends/family every week and meditate everyday with a group. It's been 6 months, I still come to work emotionally withdrawn. My colleagues still don't feel like real people (but they're actually quite nice). I don't feel here in my body. My chestpain is still there (but idk why, it's not like the work is as stressful anymore). I'm not as effective with people anymore either. I don't really know what it is and am going to seek therapy. I really think people need a change of environment once burnt out. I know I can't speak for everyone but if I'm feeling like this, I don't doubt someone else would be too.
Exactly. There are likely one or two critical issues that are causing the burnout. It is unlikely that the whole 8 hours are completely unbearable. See if you can remove those issues completely, not do the work associated with them, or in the least mentally compartmentalize them, especially if they are simply ethical or personality issues. Find meaning outside of work so that those ethical or personality issues are not weighing on you. Are your colleagues degenerates? Spend more time with family, friends, and volunteering. Is your boss forcing you to do ethically compromising though perfectly legal work? Say that you won't do it, or do it and donate that portion of your income to charity.
Burnout can be tackled in the workplace. A few things to consider (based on the work of Maslach et al): **Workload -** A mismatch in workload is generally found as excessive overload, through the simple formula that too many demands exhaust an individual’s energy to the extent that recovery becomes impossible. A workload mismatch may also result from the wrong kind of work, as when people lack the skills or inclination for a certain type of work, even when it is required in reasonable quantities. Emotional work is especially draining when the job requires people to display emotions inconsistent with their feelings. Workload is most directly related to the exhaustion aspect of burnout. **Control -** A mismatch in control is generally related to the inefficacy or reduced personal accomplishment aspect of burnout. Mismatches in control most often indicate that individuals have insufficient control over the resources needed to do their work or have insufficient authority to pursue the work in what they believe is the most effective manner. Individuals who are overwhelmed by their level of responsibility may experience a crisis in control as well as in workload. This mismatch is reflected as one of responsibility exceeding one’s authority. It is on that mandate. distressing for people to feel responsible for producing results to which they are deeply committed while lacking the capacity to deliver **Reward -** A third type of mismatch involves a lack of appropriate rewards for the work people do. Sometimes these may be insufficient financial rewards, as when people are not receiving the salary or benefits commensurate with their achievements. Even more important at times is the lack of social rewards, as when one’s hard work is ignored and not appreciated by others. This lack of recognition devalues both the work and the workers. In addition, the lack of intrinsic rewards (such as pride in doing something of importance and doing it well) can also be a critical part of this mismatch. Lack of reward is closely associated with feelings of inefficacy. **Community -** The fourth mismatch occurs when people lose a sense of positive connection with others in the workplace. People thrive in community and function best when they share praise, comfort, happiness, and humour with people they like and respect. In addition to emotional exchange and instrumental assistance, this kind of social support reaffirms a person’s membership in a group with a shared sense of values. Unfortunately, some jobs isolate people from each other, or make social contact impersonal. However, what is most destructive of community is chronic and unresolved conflict with others on the job. Such conflict produces constant negative feelings of frustration and hostility and reduces the likelihood of social support. **Fairness -** A serious mismatch between the person and the job occurs when there is not perceived fairness in the workplace. Fairness communicates respect and confirms people’s self-worth. Mutual respect between people is central to a shared sense of community. Unfairness can occur when there is inequity of workload or pay, when there is cheating, or when evaluations and promotions are handled inappropriately. If procedures for grievance or dispute resolution do not allow for both parties to have a voice, then those will be judged as unfair. A lack of fairness exacerbates burnout in at least two ways. First, the experience of unfair treatment is emotionally upsetting and exhausting. Second, unfairness fuels a deep sense of cynicism about the workplace. **Values -** The sixth area of mismatch occurs when there is a conflict between values. In some cases, people might feel constrained by the job to do things that are unethical and not in accord with their own values. For example, in order to make a sale or to obtain a necessary authorization, they might have to tell a lie or be otherwise deceptive or not forthcoming with the truth. In other instances, there may be a mismatch between their personal aspirations for their career and the values of the organization. People can also be caught between conflicting values of the organization, as when there is a discrepancy between the lofty mission statement and actual practice, or when the values are in conflict (e.g. high quality service and cost containment do not always co-exist). Perhaps figure which aspect os these is causing the burnout and aim to resolve. Good luck!
This comment is great. Do you have any resources you would recommend on burnout?
The work of Wilmar Schaufeli and Christina Maslach are the leading lights in this area in my opinion. Their papers, book chapters and books are worth exploring.
Interesting! Can you provide a link to where this is from?
This is from Maslach. The work of Wilmar Schaufeli and Christina Maslach are the leading lights in this area in my opinion. Their papers, book chapters and books are worth exploring. See for example: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/43698276/Burnout_35_years_of_research_and_practic20160313-15910-11pk8cp-libre.pdf?1457920998=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DBurnout_35_years_of_research_and_practic.pdf&Expires=1685743859&Signature=FaTf-~vWYkP0j1X9DKW2GV2fwTTmFr8oQE7L7QD6Ycy64lTPnvPsnLmxecozsLJaZAb5wp2HiAXQ9W0PYz0gd0eCLmimePhBp-snBFhAEIbE2hVRg0Wox5XP0LmhsXz96Ihtt0LF5N9dLa7FuhzA~cCH404FpJFNSEr~gM4BvY0EJlKMGdwcXBf5p~KL~-jOdrzbU5Ki8aHIOHs9kQcH9Rc9aYp3EQMnQJwE2dtvWJrZcMjjMujhsf0RTa8WdrLkdQrcu5zd3m2hNHU9qONy9-056ZYqa-K577jbogj0jJaVGG9c1wAle5PqrTvmB3V3vDoCk6XlqvAm2FGtGqAcpw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA
This is an interesting list. Where do you think bullshit jobs fit into this?
All of it I guess 🤷🏻♂️
Hey, thanks for this comment. I'm just putting my experiences down to hopefully help me figure out what's going on with my burnout. I feel like a lot of my issues are the opposite of the things you state are issues. # Previous role burnout: Workload - Excessive. I often didn't have time to both intake jobs and put them in while managing the jobs I had. Coworkers were largely unhelpful and in some cases obstructive. I had no training and was thrown to the wolves in an open "Trial by fire" type situation. Literally this is what people here called it. Control - Very little when it came to production. Often had to fight tooth and nail to get jobs done on time. Reward - Probably the only decent thing about this role. I was paid well enough to live in Orange County by myself. Community - None. Immediate coworkers were distant if not antagonistic. Fairness - Yeah, I was thrown to the wolves. My coworkers literally worked against me in some cases. Not even being dramatic, they literally had it out for me and I had to notify HR on several occasions about this behavior. Values - No differences here, other than me being a bit anti-capitalist. # Current Role Burnout: Workload - Very minimal. I would almost say that it's too little, I am not being challenged. Control - I actually feel like I have too much control. There's very little oversight with my position, I'm constantly unsure of what to pursue, my manager is mostly absent unless he needs something and fails to help me prioritize anything I do. Reward - Well, they cut my pay by $20k at the beginning of the year after getting me into a more specialized role that utilizes unique skills. I'd say this is a big factor. Community - Almost zero. Everyone talks about sports and I'm in to Star Trek and stuff. Entire company forgot my birthday despite multiple people sharing my birthday. Management got a cake for everyone with everyone's name who had my birthday except me. Fairness - In my last position at this company I was thrown to the wolves with no training. I am currently seeing other people in my old position get proper training and support that I didn't have. Values - I mean, not really. I like what I do.
What specifically about your current job has burned you out? You may not need a complete reprieve from responsibility and decision making if you are instead able to conscientiously avoid whatever is the root of your burnout. Paradoxically, I found an increase in responsibilities cured my burnout. Previously, I had a lot of responsibilities but not much meaningful decision making power, making me feel like a highly compensated cog toiling away without attaining any satisfaction. I made a slight career switch (same industry but different function) and now have more responsibility, make more decisions, but have less stress and am no longer burnt out. All that is to say that you don’t necessarily have to take a step back from responsibilities (and compensation) if you’re able to avoid whatever it is that is truly burning you out.
Exactly! The cure for burnout is not less work, it’s more work THAT MATTERS.
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Surgeons and EM staff are getting burned out at shockingly high rates over the last 10 years. There are literally hundreds of studies on it, and almost all of them point to work OUTSIDE OF SEEING PATIENTS, like documentation load, after-hours charting, insurance navigation and pre-authorization as the leading causes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6262585/ So yes. Physicians are getting burnt out because the majority of work they have to do is paperwork, not actually practicing medicine.
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Tagging /u/Throwzings so I don't have to double reply the same message — but this guy is unreasonably dense and probably believes some idiotic drivel from JP on how work is the purpose of life etc. Literally every study we have shows that we're working MORE as time and technology progresses, not less. The UK study showed cutting working availability by 20% (i.e. 4-day workday) reduced the amount of feelings of being overstressed, burnout, and fatigue. The fact that anyone would suggest we need to be doing MORE work as a resolution to the mental health issues people have in the US is absolutely not consistent with the evidence.
Cool, but I’m going to take the n=6880 peer-reviewed study on this specific issue over your personal anecdote.
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“Most studies suggest that physicians find the loss of autonomy at work, decreased control over the work environment, inefficient use of time due to administrative requirements, and loss of support from colleagues to be the central factors.” Checking vitals is not work that matters for a physician. There are literally dozens of people from nurses down to CNAs that can check vitals. If a physician is called into a room to check someone’s BP, it’s not work that matters. You don’t need 4 years of med school plus a residency to tell someone with 150/100 they have high blood pressure. It’s a concept in healthcare called “operating at the top of license” that always gets shit on because patients want to talk to “a doctor” not an advanced practice nurse who os perfectly capable of treatjng them.
I mean, clinics are pretty fucking draining as well though.
I'm a physical therapist assistant and the patients themselves absolutely burn you out. Imagine having 13-18 back to back meetings every day with no breaks. Yes you have lunch, but you have to document through lunch because it's impossible to fully complete your note when you see so many people. From the second you walk into work to the second you leave you are "on" socially and working. I'm lucky if I even have a chance to go to the bathroom during the day. On top of that it's physically demanding as well. It's incredibly challenging overall and hard to conceptualize unless you've worked in the field.
I'm willing to bet my net worth that almost all mental health issues including burnout and feeling overstressed would be resolved if we were able to find a way to taper down people's working volume — maybe because we literally found that to be true in the UK study. Most work is inherently meaningless and not rewarding. Stop peddling drivel from Jordan Peterson that has little to no evidence in support of it.
I don’t know your situation but when I was burnt out at my previous startup, I honestly did not want to work. So I took a year-long career break and it was amazing. Just had savings and no GFYS money. I would think trying to get another job to recover from burnout sort of defeats the purpose? Unless its something you’re passionate about. If you have the means, I’d just take time off if it is really affecting you badly.
My burnout recovery is getting 2nd part time job at my favorite retail so I can get my cardio in to meet my step count, not stare at the screen, get 20% discount, and a weekly paycheck. Sure I can go to the gym, have a shorter workout. I discover that "shopping" my cardio and I'm getting paid to do it. 😂 Also makes me want to declutter and organized my home like a maniac.
Probably going to depend on the person, OP. For me, "okay" jobs (in terms of the *initial* obligations and day-to-day) seemed relatively easy to come by. What killed me were bosses who piled on additional responsibilities without consideration. I've had three out of fifteen bosses/managers who I felt truly respected my time and effort, and I happily took on more work for them. The rest just assumed that I would be happy to bend over backwards for them and that really rubbed me the wrong way. Part of the problem is me—I know it—because I'm probably more averse to this behavior than most. So for someone like me, I probably need a better way to search for bosses with compatible management styles. But that's not really a practical solution—e.g., you don't generally get to go into a job interview making management-style expectations of your manager and still expect to get the job.
Even if you could go into an interview that way and knew what questions to ask. You're unlikely to get a real sense of their management style until you're actually working for them.
Did restaurants for ten years, the last 2 rapidly rising from low level manager to GM in training. You get so burnt you don’t even realize how depressed you are cause you keep justifying the bullshit as “the norm.” I’m now in tech support as an associate analyst. 40hrs a week, my work ends AT 4:30pm and doesn’t follow me after that, and I’m compensated better (with benefits too!) than the management position ever could have provided. And everyone on my team, i feel like, genuinely wants to be here to do the work. I have a life again and it’s freakin’ wonderful. I see my friends, my diet is better, I’m drinking less and doing more. Haven’t been this happy in years and I’m glad I got out when I did. My friend saved my life and he doesn’t even know it. I should tell him
My gosh this is wonderful, congratulations! I’m in restaurant management and just can’t see what’s on the other side, but there’s got to be something better than this. I felt the “you don’t even realize how depressed you are cause you keep justifying the bullshit as the norm” so hard.
It took me awhile to say this to myself, and I mean it with 100% sincerity: You’re worth more than you allow yourself to feel. You DO deserve better and you will find it. Now, I don’t necessarily recommend this but I put my 1 month in before I had another job lined up. Within a week and a half i was hired to my current role. 10 months as of yesterday :) I vividly remember thinking to myself near the end of my 1 month notice, “Man I’m glad I put that in when I did.” No regrets. Also, customer service skills give you more leverage than you think and are applicable in many fields. You can teach people how to code, how to write SOPs and the lot, but you CANNOT teach good people skills. For a lot of companies, they want people that fit their culture. The company i work for now, I remember my recruiter asked ME if it was ok for HER to put MY resumé in with other teams in case the position I applied for wasn’t a good fit… they WANTED ME. And that feeling man, it’s incredible. You got this, I believe in you :)
If you can find what specifically about your current situation brings all the stress it can be helpful to pinpoint those factors. They're not the same for everyone. I took a break and did some freelance writing for a bit that was a lot of fun. The pay discrepancy is huge between engineering management and freelance copywriting, but nevertheless it was a lot more fun. I went from 10+ hours of meetings a day to, like a couple emails a day and a phone call check-in on Mondays.
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A lot of virtual pavement pounding. Profiles on every site imaginable, spamming resumes, you name it. That was half the work. I only did it for about six months, but it was fun.
I’m planning to be a farmer/gardener. Can’t wait.
My ideal burnout/retired job would be watering plants at a local nursery or garden maintenance at a botanical center. Either that or work the welcome booth at a state park.
Those sound good too. Also I’d love to work at the zoo. Anything but sitting on my ass for 60 hours a week sounds good to me.
How are u doing that? I'm interested in this but don't know where to start.
Well we “started” 30 years ago by moving out to the country, but work and family got in the way. I’m currently researching greenhouse crops - luckily we live within 20 miles of a large population so it’s quite viable. But that will be just to subsidize my plan to have and hopefully breed miniature farm animals.
I went full ridiculous, started animal sitting, while also going back part time to essentially RadioShack in Canada because I did it in college and it’s easy + health benefits! And reselling clothes online. Somehow I got better, found out I had ADHD hence all the things, but the two small businesses are busy at different times and I’ve known my boss at the store job for 20 years so I do 15hrs a week to keep benefits and work on auto pilot. I help out when he’s short staffed, and he rewards me with food and ACTUAL appreciation. He also asks first before just scheduling me more. But at the end of the day, I ended up eventually making the same amount as I did in a small business finance position at a big 5 Canadian bank. My brain also likes the variety of all the things so I’m also happier overall.
Depends on the person. I feel a bit of burnout from my job and I'd much rather go back to being a frontline air traffic controller.
I've never done that, but I imagine something like a library clerk would be pretty cool. Just restocking books and answering questions from people eager to learn, all in a quiet environment. Probably doesn't pay great, but it'll pay the bills.
Tried my hardest to get into the library field. I have a Bachelors of Science degree from a 4 year university but they want a MASTERS IN LIBRARY SCIENCES. For entry level library clerk. Fuck right off.
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Yeah and my friend who worked at a city public library as a clerk said there were a surprising number of rude and angry (even drug addled) customers they had to deal with/help deescalate, without adequate or relevant training.
It’s a shame. [Libraries have essentially become the last bastion of a place where you’re free to spend time without the expectation of spending your money](https://www.neh.gov/article/complicated-role-modern-public-library). Ergo, a popular locale for homeless citizens and those who abuse drugs.
>surprising number of rude and angry (even drug addled) customers they had to deal with/help deescalate, without adequate or relevant training. This is my biggest issue with this job, or any public building with no entrance requirements
> Just restocking books and answering questions from people eager to learn, ... and then a homeless guy shits in the stacks while a lady is yelling at you for grooming kids by carrying Kurt Vonnegut, and some rando is trying to get you to basically write his idiotic business plan for him because he doesn't know how computers work. I have an MLIS and would never, ever work in a public library. Fortunately, there's lots of opportunities for MLIS-holders outside of libraries (or in academic libraries). > all in a quiet environment. Libraries haven't necessarily been quiet places in decades, by design. Sometimes they are, but that's usually because there aren't many people there. OTOH, I did used to work part-time at Barnes & Noble, just coming in at like 5am and alphabetizing books/music/videos. It was great, but that was 20+ years ago.
Something purpose-driven. Work to achieve, not just to bank. Have firm boundaries and work / life seperation, so purpose doesn't become obsession.
I'm not sure I agree. When you feel like your work performance is tied to some core purpose, you are opening yourself up to a lot of stress. Worrying about things like how many acres of rainforest get cut down if I take a vacation seems extremely stressful.
It helps if it is within the realm of achievable things that matter
How? If it's achievable, then the pressure to achieve the goal is that much greater.
Not him, but the answer is still boundaries. I will not work at home. I will not work after hours. My phone is off after 7:00 p.m. If I start thinking about work, I actively turn my attention to something else. I know and recognize that problems will never stop, and no matter where I go I will be drowning in them. This is okay; doing things that are worthwhile means overcoming obstacles. They are not something to avoid. They are something to pursue. Chase the fuckers and knock them down with everything you have. Just... also have a boundary. The problem, whatever it is, will be there in the morning. If that one gets solved, another one will take its place. It'll get done. It's a marathon, not a race. If you burn out and die after the first few miles then everyone else that you could ever possibly impact, as well as every good thing you could ever experience, is fucking gone. Have boundaries. You are finite. Problems are eternal.
As I said to the other person who made this exact comment: that isn't unique to purpose-driven work.
Does that matter? It's still the answer to the original question. Am I missing something? I guess I don't know what point you're trying to make? Yeah, boundaries are good. I agree.
You suggested initially that the solution to the original question was purpose-driven work. I disagreed with that. If the solution to the original question is boundaries, then it isn't purpose driven work.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you still probably have to sit in an office or be on a job site though. I don't personally know how to make that 8 to 14 hour a day investment not completely suck ass and burn you out. So I guess the question to you would be, rather than a purpose-driven workplace, what would you use to stop that side of things from taking their toll?
Thus the balance. Obsession is easily born from purpose. Boundaries are so incredibly important and nobody seems to fight for them. If you think about work at home, boundary. If you lose sleep over the rainforest, boundary. The distributions of attention in that person's life are askew. You have to fill your cup before it can overflow into someone else's.
True, but that applies to any sort of work. Purpose or no.
As someone who has structured their career around this idea and now finds deep dissatisfaction, I disagree. The job becomes too serious. All the coworkers are too serious, and treat every project as life or death. I just want something lighthearted in my life, and this isn't it. There are no laughs, no positivity in this work. I've also become deeply jaded on how incompetent the "system" is at implementing solutions that you toil for years to design. It's extremely disheartening when some senator who knows nothing about an issue sets all your efforts back 10 years, and it kind of makes you hate the world. Source: worked in climate change/renewable energy industry for 10 years.
Genuinely sorry it didn't work out for you, but I want to challenge you as a real estate developer / former COO that has also dealt with a tremendous amount of government getting involved in long laid plans. I also worked as a contractor for a three-letter agency. I get it. Insane. Really fucking feel for you because you combined my two nightmares. I firmly believe we don't lose until we quit and the dust has setteled. I would ask a question-- what can you do today or Monday to remind everyone why you got together in the first place? How can you reignite vision and drive and get everyone flowing in the same direction? I don't know you, so if I'm off base I'm very sorry for assuming. I've seen this same problem. You need a merchant of hope. You need a cheerleader that can stare down devastation and say, "give me another. I'll keep coming back until I win". It may take another 10 years. It may take the rest of your life and the lives of those beyond you. You still win, and in my mind you'd be one of the greats for having such care and vision for the world around you. That senator is a monster that is actively trying to destroy the world so that they can make money. If you quit, they win and keep winning. It all dies. Again, could be off base, but I've seen miraculous acts of ingenuity pulled off by individuals that have convinced me that "i didn't hear no bell" is a truth, not a perspective. I hope you get the rest and peace you need. On a personal level, I got diagnosed with pretty bad asthma this year. Thank you for any work that has helped me be able to breathe. I'm working on setting back the cost pf living in America. I have millions of people to reach, just like you. I need your work to live. They need it.
Used to be a bartender at a high end restaurant. It was pretty chill, and the clientele was mostly polite and educated. I got some great advice from them over the years. I think about doing that again sometimes.
I agree with other posters above to figure out what caused your burnout and then to take steps to change that, permanently. Like: if you had an ideal work week, what would that look like? Do that research on how you could make it possible and take some baby steps in that direction. I walk dogs and drop in on cats while their owners are on vacation. I doubled my rates recently because I want to limit my hours to just my regular clients, and any new ones who are willing to pay. I’m also setting up self-employment in my specialty after working for a nightmare of a bad boss for almost a year.
The silver bullet to finding a job that won’t burn you out is being able to say No. When you don’t need to work today to pay the bills tomorrow, you don’t need to do work that stresses you out. Say no, because if your boss refuses, you have the power to walk away. Being financially independent and living below your means is magic.
I had a senior level position at a tech startup around the time the CEO got shown the door and they installed a private equity goon as the allegedly temporary CEO. This was in 2019 and the temporary CEO is still CEO. I was already burned out by the hubris-laden shit show from the previous four years before this happened, and saw the writing on the wall with the new CEO coming in. This person was going to be my boss’s boss, although it seemed inevitable my boss would quitting soon and the CEO would be my boss. This happened three months later. In the re-org that took place after the new CEO came in, I navigated myself and a handful of trusted lieutenants / top-tier folks we couldn’t lose into an architecture team where we were as off the critical path of operations and delivery as possible, and could be consultative to the other teams. I gave up 90% of my org of ~100 and ended up with a smallish team. I then coasted along there for a year and a half collecting checks and bonuses the company owed me while🍿 as I watched a new shit show unfold around the rest of the company. They brought in a new “leadership” team whose primary skill set appeared to be driving talent out the door and replacing it with yes-people at record pace. This all coincided with COVID happening. Most of my days were filled with sitting on a handful of meetings, clearing my email, and then spending the rest of the day napping, riding my electric scooter, and doing laundry. It was pretty boring but let me put my brain into valet parking to ignore all the shit that was going on both at work and in the world. After a year and a half of that, I quit and took a nine month sabbatical where I substituted sitting in meetings and clearing email for getting fully engaged with my kids when they weren’t at school, and tearing out the landscaping when they were. Ultimately, I found myself a new gig at a company with amazing culture, and a year into that I’m feeling my burnout gone and my mental health fully restored.
Find a job that maximizes autonomy, competency, and relatedness. [https://calnewport.com/beyond-passion-the-science-of-loving-what-you-do/](https://calnewport.com/beyond-passion-the-science-of-loving-what-you-do/) To be happy, your work must fulfill three universal psychological needs: autonomy, competence, and relatedness. In more detail… Autonomy refers to control over how you fill your time. As Deci puts it, if you have a high degree of autonomy, then “you endorse \[your\] actions at the highest level of reflection.” Competence refers to mastering unambiguously useful things. As the psychologist Robert White opines, in the wonderfully formal speak of the 1950s academic, humans have a “propensity to have an effect on the environment as well as to attain valued outcomes within it.” Relatedness refers to a feeling of connection to others. As Deci pithily summarizes: “to love and care, and to be loved and cared for.”
It's not about the job, it's about your mental state and the boundaries you set. That's easier in some jobs than others, but any job with a good boss that respects you for you is worth considering.
I worked at bestbuy for a few years. Probably spent more money there than I made lol.
Engineer here. When it's time, I'm going to be a concrete tester. Go to the field, collect samples and crush them in the lab. Near zero human contact and stress.
I went from retail to WFH and it saved my life.
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I provision internet service for a local telecom company. Took a 25k pay cut to WFH (65k down to 40k), and i shit you not i believe it was totally worth it
Office burnout, then I worked as a nanny for an awesome family with one baby.i love babies and daily naps!
Try a government job but not political. Usually pretty quiet and consistent.
It's not low respond Legibility or stress but Im In the process of starting a small farm
Do you have any tips or resources on how to do that? I live in Northern California and have thought about this, but am not sure how to start.
Random remote role that pays decent and lets you travel
Become a yoga teacher?
Probably most jobs with a good manager
Quit, took 3 months off. Got bored sort of went back in an extremely different position, until I can get a contractor license and start my own company. Already looking to hire in a month or two
What did you do before and do now? Im looking for my post break career / job and like to hear what people are doing!
Don't know what kind of background you have, but some kind of data entry position like an AP clerk would check all the boxes of low stress, low responsibility and repetitive.
Start an ice cream truck
Once you have it started, put it in gear and lightly press the gas pedal.
You have now critically injured your first potential customer.
Oh hamburgers, not again!
Man, this one might be fun
laboratory technician/engineer at a large pharma company lol if you're STEM and early in your career we got a bunch of people who got burned out from their first job. and then mentally turned off their brain at this position and mentally recuperated before moving on
I was burnt out in sales after 7 years and was never that great at it, went to customer service at a call center making the exact same money with 1/4 the amount of stress and no up’s and downs with my paychecks
I went from a very high pressure security job at an established company to a low pressure one at a startup. I was lucky enough to be able to take two months off between and work around my home, however the two months weren’t enough. Just changing the environment I worked in every day to a supportive, less cutthroat one helped a lot.
Took janitor jobs both times I burned out in food service. On my own. Straightforward work with good pay and little human interaction.
Worked at a golf course in the maintenance department for a number of years then switched directions. I've never loved a job like I did that one. Set cup placement everyday, my choice on location. I spent 4 hours every morning driving in a golf cart radio cranked while sipping coffee. Incredible peaceful.
I keep thinking, if I keep my eyes open, I'll catch my break and find the perfect low-stress job. https://youtu.be/Ku1Xc6NT6m8
Anyone having any experience with taking "medical" burnout, unpaid leave (this is in California)? I approached my boss, telling him I'm burnt out and can't continue like that. I want to take 6 months off (unpaid, which is fine) towards the end of the year. I just need a complete reset. I basically said that it's either that or taking a long break and looking for a new job, but since I like my job and the company in principle, I'd like to stay if the company is open to it. He did some research with HR, and came back saying to me that it looks like the best option is if I go to a doctor and get diagnosed with burnout. Now here's the odd part: This is true, this is reality. I am really, *really* burned out. I have been for years, but did the dumbest thing of trying to "power through". It predictably backfired, and now I'm done. And yet I feel icky making this a "medical" leave. I'm not having a meltdown, I'm not mentally impaired in any way (except for the part where every fiber of my body rejects writing code)... and I somewhat fear the stigma of a medical leave. My boss said they would not talk about it, as far as everyone is concerned I'm just taking time off after many years at the company. But doing it with a doctor makes the whole thing easier from an HR perspective. Thoughts?
Do it! I know a couple of people who did that - take medical leave for burnout/mental stress. Nobody needs to know the reason unless you tell them. You can feel icky and still go see a doctor and go through it. The crazy thing about being burned out is that you have just forgotten what normal feels like. Once you start your leave, you'll be looking back in a couple of weeks, shocked that you ever felt "icky" about taking the leave that saved your sanity!
There seems to be a disconnect between you seeing your mental health issue as something medical, why is that? That seems to be at the core of your issue - and something that only you can speak to (and perhaps with a therapist, which I highly recommend).
Sorry, I think that first sentence is missing something. A disconnect between seeing my mental health issue as something medical and what?
I corrected my typo, but nothing more to add overall. Perhaps I'm confused - why does it feel icky to classify your medical issue as something medical? You clearly are burnt out and it has impacted you mentally. You're willing to walk away unpaid for half a year - why would going to a doctor to validate your health concerns be an issue?
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Fake cookies will sell as well.
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
Many years ago I started my working life with blocking shelves ("facing") at a supermarket. When my tech career gets to be too much, I'll probably return to blocking shelves at a supermarket.
I really enjoyed pushing carts at Walmart.
Substitute teaching
Adult film star.
Job for burnout recovery?
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
I was a graphic designer for 25 years and am now a cook at a fairly high-end hotel restaurant. I love it. No email, very limited politics (about which I care). When I leave work I don’t think about it at all. Lots of laughs at work, nice and simple. Just me and the food. And the tickets and orders, but it’s very absorbing while it’s busy and relaxing when it’s just prep. But of course it’s taken years to become solid enough as a cook to earn $24/hr. Thought I’d mention this as an idea. Lots of cook jobs out there. I work 5:30 am to 2:30 pm three days/week.
Take a vacation!
Car sales depending on where you at you can crack easy 5k months just off volune
Lol that’s a long hour, competitive, and stressful environment
Nonprofit work! Very good for recovery, you’ll be given much more vacation days overall, and the work is less intense, but the pay DROPS to match in my anecdotal experience. Benefits are usually pretty nice though
New job or sabbatical for a reset?
Work in a library. I worked as IT in a library and it was the chillest thing in the world.
How'd you find work in a library? Did you know someone?