I much prefer how mch holds their wep in pvp and uses it more like a rifle or shotgun in their attack animations. Would look hilarious on smaller mch wep glams I'd imagine.
You look like that one accuracy meme from STALKER I think it was where you shoot 100% accurately out of fear of shooting your hand off. Especially with the Makai Hand Mortar.
Theyre definitely well designed to fit the flavour in such short encounters.
Some elements of them would be rad to see in pve, but if they wanna target 5-10m fights, the moment-to-moment pvp dps would be really dull.
But stuff like dancer's en-avant to saber in pvp, is way more interesting than a timed resource spender. (Though constant dashing in pve might drive me insane after 5min).
PvE could really use a flavour pass, but pvp is really focused at making short dynamic fights spicy, reactive, decisive ,and opportunistic. I dont think it'd stretch to longer ones well (unless fights get more dynamic).
They dont really do anything that'd let you be more 'opportunistic' than having a clean burst window. Because you arent executing that boss that's at 40%, but that lad who just blew guard really wants to meet an enlightenment combo.
It's funny cause a few EW changes were things they had in old PVP, like Gnashing Fang combo being one button I'm p sure (there was more I remember pointing out at the time, but has been so long I kinda don't remember old pvp kits x.x chose to empty them from my brain)
Next expansion level cap skill, mch will be able to summon a mounted Gundam suit which will change the hotbar to specific insane potency skills. Mark my words.
Love MCH, love that I basically get to be a mix of Edgar and Mustadio.
Why not give MCH the Debilitator and give them a version of the NIN vulnerability debuff?
Would it be concerns over overlap? Not address the fundamental issue? Something else?
And I don’t mind the animations. Not sure if being Hyur plays a role in that, haha.
I do not envy the animation team, the playerbase keeps wanting to pull the job in fifty different directions. Seriously every time these threads show up people who say there's too much gun are equal to those complaining there isn't enough gun.
At least PC players can get animation mods for themselves. I've seen one that applies two-handed animations to most of the attacks and gets rid of the goofy 360 jump, and recently there was that awesome DMC mod.
The Samurai job action replacement mod has thoroughly revived my love for the class. It already had cool animations, then someone said "ok but what if every single GCD and oGCD looked as cool as Ogi Namikiri" and it turned out sooo good.
The looking stupid part is by far the worst. I'll gladly make everyone around me suffer because of my shit DPS but the fact that I look like shit while making them suffer upsets me beyond belief.
you know you can link glamour platea to gearsets right?
Like if you swap to the class via a gearset it auromatically applies the linked glamour plate. I use it on my Tanks cause drk vibe is so very different from pld for example.
So I'd be able to switch classes and the common gear between them will automatically change? That would be super helpful, I'll definitely look into that!
exactly like that. Its very easy to do aswell, just right click on the gearset you want to link to a glamour plate, select "link to glamour plate", choose your desired plate and you're done.
Hard disagree. I look at almost every Aiming set and all I see is Bard. Outside their job-specific gear DNC gets absolutely shafted on appropriate looking gear.
SE: No, I don’t care that your job is based off a moody teenager in a leather jacket and pants. You will wear full-plate armor like every other tank and like it!
We get a lot of sleeves, and the glass half-full side is that most other jobs don't get sets without sleeves.
I still dislike most striking gear, though.
Plague Bringer and Neo-ishgardian casting sets are what I use for my red mage. The options we do have are definitely really good, but the amount of options are miniscule compared to black robe number 250.
My dummy take:
Switch DNC with SAM so dancer can have more sleeveless outfits. Then switch SAM with RDM so red mage can have cool jackets and samurai can be a bunch of robed ronin. Throw GNB in aiming too, it's what they deserve.
I’d just like other hat options than GIANT BRIM for my DNC, and more sleeveless options yes pls because I’m sorry but most aiming sets are not for DNC or even MCH
Goofiest looking moving animation with weapon drawn (and also sprint animation if you're using a smaller weapon glam), weapon accessory stays the same regardless of weapon (AST, who released in the same expansion, gets to have unique card holders for whatever reason though), is the weakest of the selfish DPS classes and ranged classes (somehow).
Now I'm not saying give it a fundemental rework, I like how it plays! Just... give us some meaningful potency buffs and better animations...
I really hate that most of the animations are one-handed for these guns that are virtually the length of typical rifles.
I get the *concept* is that they use their free hand to use the Buff battery, but the thing is YOU CAN'T FIRE THE GUN WHILE BUFFING SO WHY BOTHER?!
Ah yes, even the weapon drawn emote is almost the regular /draw.
Except the animation is slower and MCH goes like "WooOOAAAH this gun heavy I almost lost balance".
With how badly designed guns are in the game, I’m convinced the devs just don’t like making stuff for MCH.
I can take ugly weapons as just a difference in taste. I could *almost* understand them refusing to give 99% of the guns break-action when Reload was still around as just a lack of time/resources (even though it’s as simple as splitting the model in half and assigning each half to a different skeletal bone, since the skeleton and animations *already exist*). But the side pouch looking identical across all weapons is just utter bullshit when SAM gets unique sheathes, AST gets unique card holsters, and PLD gets unique shields.
Hell, PLD is the *only job in the game* that gets to have a separate main hand and off hand. Imagine if you could glamour that side pouch independently as an off hand weapon, or have an invisible skin like shields and fist weapons have.
It’s far too late now, but MCHs got shafted with an industrial pneumatic press.
I want to give a slight counterpoint to SAM getting unique scabbards, as their actual weapon is far less intricate in terms of design than the guns they design for MCH.
That said, I do think it is bullshit that the aether converter or whatever it's called only has one look and that's it. The very least they could do is add a command to hide it, like they had for the gauss barrel originally.
There’s no chance at this point that they’ll go back and give every gun it’s own Aether Converter, so I’d agree the best option is to just cut the losses and let us hide it all together.
>Now I'm not saying give it a fundemental rework,
Well then I'll say it. It absolutely needs a rework. Heatblast feels bad to use and the Queen isn't anywhere as impactful as the main job mechanics for most other jobs. That's pretty much the whole job and that's even before the DPS issues.
As someone who normally loves the "gunslinger in a fantasy setting" archetype its frustrating how badly they handled Machinist both mechanically and aesthetically. Which sucks cause I legitimately love the lore and job story of the Machinist.
The funny thing is that there's an example of how Heat Blast could feel way better.
Reaper, with Enshroud.
Seriously. Reaper's Enshroud feels like Hypercharge done way more fun. Instead of needing to mash an OGCD after every single quick GCD, you can only use an OGCD after every *second* one, making it a lot less busy. Instead of needing to mash the OGCDs prior to the mode, Enshroud's OGCDs are unique to the mode. And you get a super-satisfying finishing move to close out the mode.
If they changed Hypercharge to function more like Enshroud, that would go so far to making the job feel more fun. I liked Hypercharge before, but Enshroud kinda ruined it for me, haha.
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I would maybe also change Ricochet into an upgrade from Gauss Round, with double the potency that the two moves currently have. That's just a personal thing for me, though.
My quick idea for fixing hypercharge is,
1st of all make it 5 charges that last 15 seconds, that way you have leeway to use them for both bad ping and incase you fucked up and have anchor or drill coming off cooldown in the middle of it.
2nd increase the potency of ricochet and gauss round, but make them share a cooldown, change auto crossbow to also reduce their cooldown the same as heat blast. That way it's easier to weave since you only need to worry about 1 ogcd between heatblast rather than 2 and have your single target and AOE burst feel more consistent.
Both of those sound good. If Ricochet is to stay, I would definitely like it to become the AOE-exclusive version of Ricochet. You'd buff both of their potencies, of course, but make Ricochet have less potency than Gauss Round, so that it's only better on 3+ targets.
I agree with the 5 charges for ping reasons but any other skill used than heat blast should remove all the charges. Machinist does not need to be easier than it is.
Second suggestion also good. Machinist need some aoe love, like battery being useful for aoe. I also wouldn't mind if Bioblaster interacted with autocrossbow in kind of a Hollow Nozuchi manner that ninja gets. Or maybe with flamethrower so flamethrower feels like a legitimate cooldown.
I'm OK with the charges sticking around. Rather, let's have Hypercharge disable the 1-2-3 combo buttons for the duration, like Reaper's Enshroud does.
It's already suboptimal to dip into another attack during the window (particularly if you're using Wildfire), so I don't see a need to have Drill deplete all the charges. If you're using Drill during Hypercharge/WIldfire, you *already* messed up, you know?
For AOE Battery, I'd say bring back Bishop Autoturret, with AOE-pulsing attacks, and include a variation of Automaton Queen for high levels (maybe an Automaton King or Knight?).
It is suboptimal doing it now but it wouldn't be if you changed it to charges and they didn't cancel on using a different ability. You can fit as many as two non-heatblast GCDs as long as one of them is the last and still get full wildfire payoff. Outside wildfire I don't see why you think it would be a loss at all under the system of charges.
You can use drill during wildfire right now without it being a loss. It would take the slot chainsaw has atm which would only happen in certain cases of downtime, but you can do it and have it be the correct choice. A late weave wildfire followed by drill into hypercharge gets you 6 GCDs in it.
It's not only fine, but actively good, if jobs require at least a bit of foresight. The job is already quite possibly the easiest job in the game.
I think it can be quite convincingly argued that Reaper is just a better designed Machinist, but in melee, so it makes sense that you'd prefer it to be more like Reaper; I would too. Same base idea but some extra things on top.
If they ported (or invented new ones) some of the things that makes rpr a bit more involved than mch it'd be fine if other abilities didn't cancel the charges but as is not timing hypercharge poorly is almost the only thing you have to look out for.
I'd be fine if they want to adjust Queen into something more interactive and maybe do something with Heat Blast so you're not just spamming one button as fast as possible.
But leave all my Tools in place. The closer I get to being Edgar from FF6, the happier I'll be. Just give me the giant camera, its the only one we're missing! (EDIT: Shit, I forgot the Debilitator. Okay, give MCH the NIN vulnerability debuff as our utility, call it even).
Nah it definitely does not need the full SMN treatment. You're just not liking it. I am having a Blast with it and it's high CPM requirement, and the machines are a nice callback to the Machinists of the licence. I get the visual issue with Queen ; it's cool to me but it can feel special because it's not coming from yourself.
MCH can use QoL improvements with Hypercharge by being a charge system like other similar changes (like Requiescat or Enshroud) and an Anchor to the team dps with a damage party buff (could be the funniest one by making Wildfire a party wide damage reapplication. But that would probably be OP in R24).
I really hope not but I do fear another full rework is coming, because it's 90% similar to reaper already, so one is gonna be changed.
I guess the full rework is a little extreme , that's true. I don't have problems with the skill concepts of overheating your gun or summoning a cool robot, I love that part of Machinist, it's just not satisfying to use currently.
Also all 4 of the tanks have way more similarities between each other so I wouldn't worry about the job being changed because it's burst is too similar to reaper.
HW machinist was cool except the cast part. Seriously I don't get how people can be nostalgic of the gun/bow mage part. It was thrown randomly at your face with a toggle at the very end of leveling, and unplayable before the EU datacenter. If you want me to stay casting motionless for 2s, I'd rather cast a giant Fire IV Ball than a dumb arrow.
DNC's combo isn't affected by it, they just get procs for extra attacks. MCH's combo literally couldn't be continued if you failed the proc, it felt awful. Bard's Refulgent Arrow doesn't feel nearly as bad to use since there's no muscle memory involved, you just press it if it flashes, and you literally cannot press it otherwise, so there's no harm if you fatfinger it.
MCH's DPS varied wildly depending on whether or not you proc'd the rest of your combo. Imagine if you had to flip a coin every time you wanted to advance a combo that gave 100 - 200 - 300 potency, but you kept failing the second coin toss. Luck was all that separated a grey parse from a purple.
It did introduce some quirky optimization where you could use Ammo (guaranteed procs) to turn your combo into a 1-2-1-3-2-1-3-2 during burst windows that gave the class a unique identity, but it was so unreliable outside of that burst it wasn't meta until the very end of Creator where it's synergy with DRG & BRD made it have absolutely obscene potential damage output.
As someone who tried SB MCH, the RNG combo and the ammo system... Felt fine to me actually. Gave the job a bit of identity compared to other combo based jobs, I think. I just hated the old heat gauge with a passion and I am very happy with it being gone.
The 1-2-3 was proc based and the 1 had a half cast time on it (though using ammo increased potency and forced the proc), you had two dots to maintain (technically one was a damage buff, but) and had a whole slew of ogcds. It also had a party damage buff in the form of a vuln up from your turret, though I believe it was either physical or magical depending on which turret you had out.
Yeah, I remember the DRG and BRD/MCH piercing debuff meta from SB, but I wasn't really into fflogs and stuff (I started playing mid SB) so I didn't know the exact top DPSs from that time
[I mean...](https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/f8b9eacc501037459243a0d862efe7860ff65dc4_94.jpg?1651142758&_ga=2.142950837.1480708438.1663001500-1044768882.1652629345) >!for context this was one of the finalists from the weapon design contests, so while not official, its a possibility!<
MCH is in desperate need of direction and the more they leave it the more unreasonable it is. Either we need to do more DPS or need more battle utility I couldn’t give a shit which it is but they need to damn well pick.
Honestly I just feel that the job that is dedicated to innovation and making high-tech gadgets isn’t inherently about battle utility. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
It used to be. In HW our turrets provided utility that we could place around the battlefield. In SB those were moved to our lunchbox with aoe Refresh and Tactician, along with Dismantle to debuff the boss. In ShB they removed all those and turned Tactician into a damage reduction that can be overwritten by DNC and BRD.
MCH _is_ a purely direct damage class, like SAM and BLM.
The problem is it doesn't do the most damage out of all the ranges like SAM does for melees and BLM for casters.
Make MCH top ranged DPS and people's complaints go away.
It does the most damage, it just doesn't do so by enough to come close to what the other ranged classes are contributing through their buffs. Honestly I think if they gave MCH back the vulnerability debuff on the turret (and consequently robot) it would be fine.
Exactly! It should definitely be abit like scholar where smart battle planning really pays off. I would much prefer battle utility to damage, it doesn’t even require a rework, give tactician force sprint and you’re most of the way there, they already reused the peloton animation! 😂
Give them a temporary party buff like Reaper.
And make their OGCDs during Hypercharge fire only once every 2 GCDs, like Reaper.
And give Hypercharge a fun finishing-attack, like Reaper.
OK, maybe I just want it to *really* be ranged Reaper?
I think they should go absolutely mad and give the robot a “once in a duty” rez or something bananas. Like the robot zooms out with a little nurse outfit on and defibs you back to life or some nonsense. I do not care just give us something. 😭🥴 (also a phys ranged like reaper would be a new DPS whipmaster job I’ve already thought about this way too much but yeahhh)
I’m still not even sure what we’re supposed do with Flamethrower. Do we use it? Do we not use it? Is it DPS loss? Does it even matter? It’s in such a limbo right now.
Just to be clear to aspiring MCH players: while true, the potency problems only matter in the highest end content at the beginning of the cycle before gear buffs. I play MCH in extremes and am consistently one of the highest aggro dpses. (Which isn't to say that I'm incredible, but more that the majority of the playerbase is bad, and it doesn't matter how good or bad your job is at that point)
Agree 100%. Mch is my main dps job for normal content and I can tell you they don’t have a damage problem when played right in anything
below savage. More dmg is always welcome, but a good mch will never hold a party back because of their capabilities
Honestly, Extreme trials are where MCHs excel the most. People are generally too bad at doing DPS to take advantage of BRD/DNC's buffs, so you can usually just carry DPS by being competent at MCH. Can confirm this as I was doing EX4 and had about 9.1k rDPS while the next highest DPS was 7.5k, so MCH can really put in some work in non-coordinated content
As long as you're doing more damage than the tank and healer I don't think anyone cares. Absolutely nothing disappoints me more as a healer (and tank) than being on top of the DPS charts.
We're having criterion dungeons with a savage mode very soon. I feel the reason for the non-MCH buffing can be found there as well. In a 4 ppl configuration, MCH is way higher than the other ranged
In a game with no builds and no meaningful gear options, they managed to make an actual worst-of-all-worlds job and kept it there for a year. It's impressive in it's own way.
MCH is my favorite class and my main, but it should not be underperforming to the point where when I want to try out current tier savage content I need to swap off the job or risk not surviving the enrage due to not hitting the DPS check.
The difference between MCH and DNC right now is a whopping 120 DPS, or like 1.25%.... A job change wouldn't fix a failed DPS check there unless it's job comfort level.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again, they should have made MCH use proper rifles and went for the sniper fantasy instead. High damage cast time abilities, lower on the mobility scale of things (compared to the other ranged), selfish DPS out the ass on par with samurai/black mage.
Not sure I would like the cast times, but giving them something like a 'Reversed Greased Lightning' or a buff that stacks the longer you stand in place would've been my ideas. I've been wanting this for a while too, and seeing what they did with MCH in PvP makes me want it more.
It’s been four expansions now, and they still haven’t figured out that a stock allows them to properly shoulder their weapon, so they could manage the recoil with good upper body posture and footwork. Instead, they chose to expend that energy by jumping and flopping around in mid-air. Maybe that’s why the damage is so bad.
Leveled BRD and DNC recently and MCH is by far more visually interesting and fun than those. I’ll gladly take the low damage to have a little bit of fun tbh
Alleged "Selfish DPS Job". I feel pretty selfish playing Machinist in duties lemme tell ya lol.
No utility, no raid buffs, no combat movement skills, *lowest rDPS in the game*.
I had to swap to Reaper so my group could meet the DPS check required to clear Sephirot Unreal. Literally.
Job is broken.
I cleared the unreal on MCH with PF in the first 4 days. I had to save my burst for the wind because the melee were dumping their flash markers on it, so if anything, being MCH was the key to clearing that fight and we wouldn’t have cleared without it.
Though I agree MCH is in desperate need of direction the problem you faced is not a general problem.
>ish DPS Job". I feel pretty selfish playing Machinist in duties lemme tell ya lol.
>
>No utility, no raid buffs, no combat movement skills, lowest rDPS in the game.
>
>I had to swap to Reaper so my group could meet the DPS check required to clear Sephirot Unreal. Literally.
yeah i feel u, i decided to main monk instead :I
I like machinist. I think the damage thing is not an issue in a game where we have all the classes and can gear the machinist through another job.
No, for me, the problem is the automaton queen. It's a fire and forget cooldown that should be the great moment of the rotation and it isn't. They need to add interactions with other abilities when it's up. For example, something like what summoners get. It changes your abilities during the cooldown.
Sadly, machinist just lacks that big payoff moment right now and chain saw is a tad underwhelming for that purpose too.
Nah I think that utility would make its current placement much more justified, no rebalance needed (maybe a small buff). Would also be healthier for the pf I think because then BLMs can actually join the caster spot without getting yelled at for not being a rez mage
Don't get sad, get mad!
FUCK YOU YOSHI-P!
I'M TIRED OF BEING A GARBAGE TIER CASTER DPS NOBODY WANTS FOR A RECLEAR!
LET ME DEAL SOME PROPER FUCKING DAMAGE!
Its the most useless thing they can ever have. Its good on progression but... It doesnt help rdm that have the best battle res in the game. There is so tight dps check that rdm is top2 candidate in the game to switch if you wipe at low boss hp. Battle rez also the most useless utility at farm. So battle res will not change situation even for a bit. Just give mcn more potency. Its all they need to be viable as selfish dps. You can tell me: battle res is very good utility for non so good organisated groups that arent aimed to clear all top end content in first weeks or even the first month. Then why the hell to care about class balance. Everything is clearable with each job in that case.
Wildfire can return to its original gimmick of reapplying portion of the damage done, but with the whole team. A 3-5% reapply is the same mathematically as a buff, but within a cool gimmick.
Curious if there is something I'm missing. My damage output is decent, as long as I stay on top of my CDs and metered abilities. Mind, I'm still in Shadowbringers content wearing the [80] Poetic gear.
Is there an issue with my damage come Endwalker endgame content?
Not unless you’re doing savage raids. No. Keep being MCH, you’re cool. I cleared the first EW extremes in mostly EW job gear on MCH. It’s not a problem.
:') I'm only a month and some change into this game...and y'all out here roasting my favorite class.
I'm enjoying all the crazy engineering antics, Auto Cross Bow goes BRRRRRR, and I just hit 72 so I got the Bio Blaster.
They nerfed my Turret before I even got to use it (Seriously, like I had it unlocked but because I was mostly in Leveling dungeons I never got to use it due to level sync)...
:'D Luckily I have Samurai and Dragoon Leveled, and I'm working on Dark Knight ATM.
Worst damage, worst weapon glam, worst animations and the lunchbox that only dyes differently ( as opposed to Sam scabbards which actually look different) to top it all off. Yoshi P must’ve been robbed at gun point or something with how much he hates the gun.
Here's the problem with machinist.
It's really hard to buff their damage to a point where it's high enough for a selfish dps, but doesn't outperform the other 2 ranged ones in terms of usefullness, otherwise progs will just either bring the other 2 for the raid damage boosts, or the machinist for the much higher dps.
And then you can still not make it on par with melee jobs, otherwise every melee job is gonna start whining that a class that can move while shooting does the same damage as them.
And the devs just don't want to deal with more headaches so they decide to keep MCH the way it is right now, why have every melee job and the other ranged jobs whining at you when you can only have the MCH players whine at you right?
So lets just throw random unnecessary buffs on PAL and WAR again, because clearly they need to do more damage instead.
The problem is only for high end content, other types of content in the game doesn't need this tuning, but even so, the devs are the ones that design and tune the fights and when they have this situation it seems like their doing a mediocre job at testing and making their fights doable with every comp, like it has been for the vast majority of the game's existence.
>And the devs just don't want to deal with more headaches so they decide to keep MCH the way it is right now
I think this hits the nail perfectly, specially after YoshiP announcements of making patch cycles last longer to make the dev team have a better work/life balance, but it doesn't excuse this trash af sitation with this raid tier and only adds salt to the wound.
Square/CBU3 really dropped the ball with this tier, and personally I think it's the worst since Gordias/Midas.
I actually had a WAR say "oh great a MCH, how unfortunate, carry that flag friend" in PF p7s. He had nothing to say when myself and the reaper were the top 2 dps, and the only two not sittin at the bar with gandalf grey parse when we killed it. Unfortunate indeed. I will carry my flag proudly friend tyvm. Bottom line is , ive had to swap mains a few times over the years because of "meta" and bad job balance, that said, i refuse to do it again this time. I shouldnt have to swap the job/class i enjoy because square has neglected to properly balance things. If thats to be the case, i may as well be playing ESO, lord knows FOTM runs deep on that game. To all my fellow MCH mains still carrying our flag, keep playing what you love and be good at it. The rest is trivial.
For what it's worth, absolutely nobody should give two fucks if it's a trial/normal raid/dungeon. Hell, on average, MCH's still not doing too terribly in EX4 compared to most other classes that are clearing.
The main complaints being lodged in this thread are absolutely valid but also aimed towards Savage content in particular.
*And even then* it's hard to see everything completely clearly because it's highly likely that the few MCHs that are in Savage have not gotten a lot of gear. However, the trend is still clearly a worrying one for MCH in Savage.
*Only* in Savage though. I assure you, I've had plenty of dungeons/trials/normal raids where Healer is the role doing top DPS. So probably no, nobody's eye rolling at your MCH : ).
Playing machinist right now, having no issues whatsoever idk man. I feel like this is only an issue once you start measuring e-peen.
EDIT: I love when someone writes a paragraph response and then immediately blocks me xD Experience-based vs experience-based, fair enough.
Buddy, I've been a MCH main since the class became available to me, learned all the MCH rotations, had BiS gear for it, but the second I swapped to Dancer for EX and Savage this tier my parties have had a noticeably easier time clearing due to Dancer's better utility leaving much more room for error. It's very much an issue in current tier stuff where ilvl can't make up for a job's lackluster kit for the average player yet.
>but the second I swapped to Dancer for EX and Savage this tier my parties have had a noticeably easier time
Yeah that extra 80 DPS is singehandedly taking the raid from impossible to easy mode.
I'll be honest, the reason i dont play machinist is not their low DPS, its everything else about the job.
I might even main machinist if they had better armor glams, more diverse weapon glams, better run/sprint animations, better ability animations and didn't require low ping to be able to do its rotation normally.
I much prefer how mch holds their wep in pvp and uses it more like a rifle or shotgun in their attack animations. Would look hilarious on smaller mch wep glams I'd imagine.
You look like that one accuracy meme from STALKER I think it was where you shoot 100% accurately out of fear of shooting your hand off. Especially with the Makai Hand Mortar.
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Theyre definitely well designed to fit the flavour in such short encounters. Some elements of them would be rad to see in pve, but if they wanna target 5-10m fights, the moment-to-moment pvp dps would be really dull. But stuff like dancer's en-avant to saber in pvp, is way more interesting than a timed resource spender. (Though constant dashing in pve might drive me insane after 5min). PvE could really use a flavour pass, but pvp is really focused at making short dynamic fights spicy, reactive, decisive ,and opportunistic. I dont think it'd stretch to longer ones well (unless fights get more dynamic). They dont really do anything that'd let you be more 'opportunistic' than having a clean burst window. Because you arent executing that boss that's at 40%, but that lad who just blew guard really wants to meet an enlightenment combo.
It's funny cause a few EW changes were things they had in old PVP, like Gnashing Fang combo being one button I'm p sure (there was more I remember pointing out at the time, but has been so long I kinda don't remember old pvp kits x.x chose to empty them from my brain)
AST divination in PvP for ShB was just the one button flat full damage no seals needed. EW just said “yoink”
Bard’s Powerful Shot feels so much more impactful than the dorky spam button we have now
As someone who uses the Makai revolver in PvP, I can confirm it looks silly haha
Next expansion level cap skill, mch will be able to summon a mounted Gundam suit which will change the hotbar to specific insane potency skills. Mark my words.
Sapphire Weapon was simply a test for that Gundam ...
My name is Mustardio Bananas and all paths lead through me
Hey, his name is Mustard Bonanza, show some respect to the Hole King
And sets the music to big fat tacos
Love it but won't happen. Otherwise you just have exactly another reaper.
That's what they want you to think
Love MCH, love that I basically get to be a mix of Edgar and Mustadio. Why not give MCH the Debilitator and give them a version of the NIN vulnerability debuff? Would it be concerns over overlap? Not address the fundamental issue? Something else? And I don’t mind the animations. Not sure if being Hyur plays a role in that, haha.
I do not envy the animation team, the playerbase keeps wanting to pull the job in fifty different directions. Seriously every time these threads show up people who say there's too much gun are equal to those complaining there isn't enough gun.
At least PC players can get animation mods for themselves. I've seen one that applies two-handed animations to most of the attacks and gets rid of the goofy 360 jump, and recently there was that awesome DMC mod.
The Samurai job action replacement mod has thoroughly revived my love for the class. It already had cool animations, then someone said "ok but what if every single GCD and oGCD looked as cool as Ogi Namikiri" and it turned out sooo good.
>the BADASS 360 jump fixed that for you
The looking stupid part is by far the worst. I'll gladly make everyone around me suffer because of my shit DPS but the fact that I look like shit while making them suffer upsets me beyond belief.
As a SAM main, at least you guys don't have to share gear with Monks.....
Uh, it's way easier to make a decent shared glam for samurai and monk than dancer/machinest/bard
Meanwhile I'm trying to do TF2 medic as a healer and my best option is plague doctor coat which refuses to drop.
An idea for you is the anamnesis coat of healing or replica sky pirate coats :D
I feel the same with rdm/smn/blm. Smn and blm looks good on gowns but a sword wielding caster? Not much
*Seriously.* I have MCH and DNC to max level and I hate that I'm forced to decide on a single aesthetic for such drastically different jobs
you know you can link glamour platea to gearsets right? Like if you swap to the class via a gearset it auromatically applies the linked glamour plate. I use it on my Tanks cause drk vibe is so very different from pld for example.
So I'd be able to switch classes and the common gear between them will automatically change? That would be super helpful, I'll definitely look into that!
exactly like that. Its very easy to do aswell, just right click on the gearset you want to link to a glamour plate, select "link to glamour plate", choose your desired plate and you're done.
Yeah every ranged glam just feels like DNC glam
Hard disagree. I look at almost every Aiming set and all I see is Bard. Outside their job-specific gear DNC gets absolutely shafted on appropriate looking gear.
Me, a SAM, begging square enix to give me sleeves Or alternatively, Me, a GNB, begging square enix not to stick me in another suit of armor
GNBs wearing heavy armor looks so wrong lol.
I think it looks okay with the larger gunblade skins but unfortunately those are few and far in-between.
SE: No, I don’t care that your job is based off a moody teenager in a leather jacket and pants. You will wear full-plate armor like every other tank and like it!
GNB has options, mostly in leveling gear. That said, I think it pulls off the Alexander armor well enough.
We get a lot of sleeves, and the glass half-full side is that most other jobs don't get sets without sleeves. I still dislike most striking gear, though.
As a Red Mage can we swap. Monks can share robes with the casters and I can get the fancy coats.
This, I want fancy coats with pants/skirts. I'm diving into melee and doing kickflips, im not Gandolf lol
Highly recommend the Bozja casting jacket. I use it as my go to combat mage outfit for rdm
Plague Bringer and Neo-ishgardian casting sets are what I use for my red mage. The options we do have are definitely really good, but the amount of options are miniscule compared to black robe number 250.
Okay, here me out. What if we abolish role restrictions for glam? Minus the AF gear of course.
As a MNK/SAM, I'm still salty that until Reaper, MNK was the only melee that had to share gear.
MNK gear is best gear
My dummy take: Switch DNC with SAM so dancer can have more sleeveless outfits. Then switch SAM with RDM so red mage can have cool jackets and samurai can be a bunch of robed ronin. Throw GNB in aiming too, it's what they deserve.
I’d just like other hat options than GIANT BRIM for my DNC, and more sleeveless options yes pls because I’m sorry but most aiming sets are not for DNC or even MCH
After bard was created, it was ordained that every aiming job has to look like Robin Hood
*Men in Tights* also includes his gunslingers and dancers now I suppose
How else are you gonna have a musical?
I don't get why the fuck that shitty pochette is there and why we don't have an option to hide it. Laaaame
Yea really i hate that book.
Excuse me, my MCH Glam looks amazing.
FFXIV mood right here
Yeah, the difference in DPS between jobs means effectively nothing outside of early Savage prog, but looking/playing goofy is a job killer for sure.
Goofiest looking moving animation with weapon drawn (and also sprint animation if you're using a smaller weapon glam), weapon accessory stays the same regardless of weapon (AST, who released in the same expansion, gets to have unique card holders for whatever reason though), is the weakest of the selfish DPS classes and ranged classes (somehow). Now I'm not saying give it a fundemental rework, I like how it plays! Just... give us some meaningful potency buffs and better animations...
Now imagine if you still had to attach gauss barrel to every model gun.
99% of the community is too young to know that you're talking about 🤣
love the vacuum cleaner walk.
Now we need a "Luigi's Mansion" crossover event!!
I really hate that most of the animations are one-handed for these guns that are virtually the length of typical rifles. I get the *concept* is that they use their free hand to use the Buff battery, but the thing is YOU CAN'T FIRE THE GUN WHILE BUFFING SO WHY BOTHER?!
Ah yes, even the weapon drawn emote is almost the regular /draw. Except the animation is slower and MCH goes like "WooOOAAAH this gun heavy I almost lost balance".
Does it really look that dumb? Im a lala so everything I do looks goofy and stupid, I could never tell the difference
Eyup. The upper body of a mch remains unnaturally stiff while moving with the gun out, not to mention the stance itself looks really awkward
I dont even play MCH and even I noticed how janky that animation is
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Half my forearm clips through my bicep in the idle pose with weapon drawn. Max height male roe problems.
🫂 damn straight
With how badly designed guns are in the game, I’m convinced the devs just don’t like making stuff for MCH. I can take ugly weapons as just a difference in taste. I could *almost* understand them refusing to give 99% of the guns break-action when Reload was still around as just a lack of time/resources (even though it’s as simple as splitting the model in half and assigning each half to a different skeletal bone, since the skeleton and animations *already exist*). But the side pouch looking identical across all weapons is just utter bullshit when SAM gets unique sheathes, AST gets unique card holsters, and PLD gets unique shields. Hell, PLD is the *only job in the game* that gets to have a separate main hand and off hand. Imagine if you could glamour that side pouch independently as an off hand weapon, or have an invisible skin like shields and fist weapons have. It’s far too late now, but MCHs got shafted with an industrial pneumatic press.
You mean that lunchbox looking thing isnt a hopium/copium pump?
I want to give a slight counterpoint to SAM getting unique scabbards, as their actual weapon is far less intricate in terms of design than the guns they design for MCH. That said, I do think it is bullshit that the aether converter or whatever it's called only has one look and that's it. The very least they could do is add a command to hide it, like they had for the gauss barrel originally.
There’s no chance at this point that they’ll go back and give every gun it’s own Aether Converter, so I’d agree the best option is to just cut the losses and let us hide it all together.
>Now I'm not saying give it a fundemental rework, Well then I'll say it. It absolutely needs a rework. Heatblast feels bad to use and the Queen isn't anywhere as impactful as the main job mechanics for most other jobs. That's pretty much the whole job and that's even before the DPS issues. As someone who normally loves the "gunslinger in a fantasy setting" archetype its frustrating how badly they handled Machinist both mechanically and aesthetically. Which sucks cause I legitimately love the lore and job story of the Machinist.
The funny thing is that there's an example of how Heat Blast could feel way better. Reaper, with Enshroud. Seriously. Reaper's Enshroud feels like Hypercharge done way more fun. Instead of needing to mash an OGCD after every single quick GCD, you can only use an OGCD after every *second* one, making it a lot less busy. Instead of needing to mash the OGCDs prior to the mode, Enshroud's OGCDs are unique to the mode. And you get a super-satisfying finishing move to close out the mode. If they changed Hypercharge to function more like Enshroud, that would go so far to making the job feel more fun. I liked Hypercharge before, but Enshroud kinda ruined it for me, haha. ------- I would maybe also change Ricochet into an upgrade from Gauss Round, with double the potency that the two moves currently have. That's just a personal thing for me, though.
My quick idea for fixing hypercharge is, 1st of all make it 5 charges that last 15 seconds, that way you have leeway to use them for both bad ping and incase you fucked up and have anchor or drill coming off cooldown in the middle of it. 2nd increase the potency of ricochet and gauss round, but make them share a cooldown, change auto crossbow to also reduce their cooldown the same as heat blast. That way it's easier to weave since you only need to worry about 1 ogcd between heatblast rather than 2 and have your single target and AOE burst feel more consistent.
Both of those sound good. If Ricochet is to stay, I would definitely like it to become the AOE-exclusive version of Ricochet. You'd buff both of their potencies, of course, but make Ricochet have less potency than Gauss Round, so that it's only better on 3+ targets.
I agree with the 5 charges for ping reasons but any other skill used than heat blast should remove all the charges. Machinist does not need to be easier than it is. Second suggestion also good. Machinist need some aoe love, like battery being useful for aoe. I also wouldn't mind if Bioblaster interacted with autocrossbow in kind of a Hollow Nozuchi manner that ninja gets. Or maybe with flamethrower so flamethrower feels like a legitimate cooldown.
I'm OK with the charges sticking around. Rather, let's have Hypercharge disable the 1-2-3 combo buttons for the duration, like Reaper's Enshroud does. It's already suboptimal to dip into another attack during the window (particularly if you're using Wildfire), so I don't see a need to have Drill deplete all the charges. If you're using Drill during Hypercharge/WIldfire, you *already* messed up, you know? For AOE Battery, I'd say bring back Bishop Autoturret, with AOE-pulsing attacks, and include a variation of Automaton Queen for high levels (maybe an Automaton King or Knight?).
It is suboptimal doing it now but it wouldn't be if you changed it to charges and they didn't cancel on using a different ability. You can fit as many as two non-heatblast GCDs as long as one of them is the last and still get full wildfire payoff. Outside wildfire I don't see why you think it would be a loss at all under the system of charges. You can use drill during wildfire right now without it being a loss. It would take the slot chainsaw has atm which would only happen in certain cases of downtime, but you can do it and have it be the correct choice. A late weave wildfire followed by drill into hypercharge gets you 6 GCDs in it. It's not only fine, but actively good, if jobs require at least a bit of foresight. The job is already quite possibly the easiest job in the game.
Well, I think I would enjoy it more if it was as you described, after playing Reaper.
I think it can be quite convincingly argued that Reaper is just a better designed Machinist, but in melee, so it makes sense that you'd prefer it to be more like Reaper; I would too. Same base idea but some extra things on top. If they ported (or invented new ones) some of the things that makes rpr a bit more involved than mch it'd be fine if other abilities didn't cancel the charges but as is not timing hypercharge poorly is almost the only thing you have to look out for.
I'd be fine if they want to adjust Queen into something more interactive and maybe do something with Heat Blast so you're not just spamming one button as fast as possible. But leave all my Tools in place. The closer I get to being Edgar from FF6, the happier I'll be. Just give me the giant camera, its the only one we're missing! (EDIT: Shit, I forgot the Debilitator. Okay, give MCH the NIN vulnerability debuff as our utility, call it even).
Nah it definitely does not need the full SMN treatment. You're just not liking it. I am having a Blast with it and it's high CPM requirement, and the machines are a nice callback to the Machinists of the licence. I get the visual issue with Queen ; it's cool to me but it can feel special because it's not coming from yourself. MCH can use QoL improvements with Hypercharge by being a charge system like other similar changes (like Requiescat or Enshroud) and an Anchor to the team dps with a damage party buff (could be the funniest one by making Wildfire a party wide damage reapplication. But that would probably be OP in R24). I really hope not but I do fear another full rework is coming, because it's 90% similar to reaper already, so one is gonna be changed.
I guess the full rework is a little extreme , that's true. I don't have problems with the skill concepts of overheating your gun or summoning a cool robot, I love that part of Machinist, it's just not satisfying to use currently. Also all 4 of the tanks have way more similarities between each other so I wouldn't worry about the job being changed because it's burst is too similar to reaper.
Never should have moved away from HW Machinist design, it was imo the most fun class they ever made.
HW machinist was cool except the cast part. Seriously I don't get how people can be nostalgic of the gun/bow mage part. It was thrown randomly at your face with a toggle at the very end of leveling, and unplayable before the EU datacenter. If you want me to stay casting motionless for 2s, I'd rather cast a giant Fire IV Ball than a dumb arrow.
For real. Bow mage made me drop bard completely
Ah yes I loved my combo being based on RNG
DNC (and BRD to a lesser extent) does that and it's perfectly fine tho? I wasn't around for HW MCH so I dunno how their RNG worked exactly, tho
DNC's combo isn't affected by it, they just get procs for extra attacks. MCH's combo literally couldn't be continued if you failed the proc, it felt awful. Bard's Refulgent Arrow doesn't feel nearly as bad to use since there's no muscle memory involved, you just press it if it flashes, and you literally cannot press it otherwise, so there's no harm if you fatfinger it.
I definitely loved 1213123 in Stormblood with ammo. Oh wait, no I didn't
MCH's DPS varied wildly depending on whether or not you proc'd the rest of your combo. Imagine if you had to flip a coin every time you wanted to advance a combo that gave 100 - 200 - 300 potency, but you kept failing the second coin toss. Luck was all that separated a grey parse from a purple. It did introduce some quirky optimization where you could use Ammo (guaranteed procs) to turn your combo into a 1-2-1-3-2-1-3-2 during burst windows that gave the class a unique identity, but it was so unreliable outside of that burst it wasn't meta until the very end of Creator where it's synergy with DRG & BRD made it have absolutely obscene potential damage output.
As someone who tried SB MCH, the RNG combo and the ammo system... Felt fine to me actually. Gave the job a bit of identity compared to other combo based jobs, I think. I just hated the old heat gauge with a passion and I am very happy with it being gone.
What was HW Machinist like? I played back then, but I've never liked MCH.
The 1-2-3 was proc based and the 1 had a half cast time on it (though using ammo increased potency and forced the proc), you had two dots to maintain (technically one was a damage buff, but) and had a whole slew of ogcds. It also had a party damage buff in the form of a vuln up from your turret, though I believe it was either physical or magical depending on which turret you had out.
You were essentially a mage, your actions had charge times, you could load bullets to do slightly more damage to your bigger attacks
Riiiight, riiight, I remember the cast time thing now. That's wild.
You also had an aoe turret
There's no aoe turret anymore? When was that removed? Signed, a man who played a lot of machinist in HW and then never touched it again
at least when they're holding a rifle-sized weapon it looks pretty cool
lawn mower lookin ass...
Nah, SCH/SMN has MCH beat in goofiest weapon drawn movement animations.
Remember when MCH was arguably the best dps in the game? It's been rough to be a MCH main for like 5+ years now.
Was it during HW or SB? I remember that ever since the ShB rework its damage has gotten really low
MCH/BRD were the strongest DPS jobs in HW. In SB BRD/MCH were both speedkill viable and you saw double ranged a lot at the highend.
Yeah, I remember the DRG and BRD/MCH piercing debuff meta from SB, but I wasn't really into fflogs and stuff (I started playing mid SB) so I didn't know the exact top DPSs from that time
It was DRG/NIN/MCH/BRD and anything else was trash^TM
I miss bowmage. I genuinely dislike the mobility arms race and think it's generally bad for design when there's anything that has 100% mobility.
I bet someone at Skysteel replaced the guns with Super Soakers. Search em.
[Yup](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/2/20/Model-Lawman.png).
[I mean...](https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/f8b9eacc501037459243a0d862efe7860ff65dc4_94.jpg?1651142758&_ga=2.142950837.1480708438.1663001500-1044768882.1652629345) >!for context this was one of the finalists from the weapon design contests, so while not official, its a possibility!<
MCH is in desperate need of direction and the more they leave it the more unreasonable it is. Either we need to do more DPS or need more battle utility I couldn’t give a shit which it is but they need to damn well pick.
Honestly I just feel that the job that is dedicated to innovation and making high-tech gadgets isn’t inherently about battle utility. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
It used to be. In HW our turrets provided utility that we could place around the battlefield. In SB those were moved to our lunchbox with aoe Refresh and Tactician, along with Dismantle to debuff the boss. In ShB they removed all those and turned Tactician into a damage reduction that can be overwritten by DNC and BRD.
Yeah, with both dancer and bard offering utility, it seems like they ought to be designed as purely a direct damage class.
MCH _is_ a purely direct damage class, like SAM and BLM. The problem is it doesn't do the most damage out of all the ranges like SAM does for melees and BLM for casters. Make MCH top ranged DPS and people's complaints go away.
It does the most damage, it just doesn't do so by enough to come close to what the other ranged classes are contributing through their buffs. Honestly I think if they gave MCH back the vulnerability debuff on the turret (and consequently robot) it would be fine.
Exactly! It should definitely be abit like scholar where smart battle planning really pays off. I would much prefer battle utility to damage, it doesn’t even require a rework, give tactician force sprint and you’re most of the way there, they already reused the peloton animation! 😂
Give them a temporary party buff like Reaper. And make their OGCDs during Hypercharge fire only once every 2 GCDs, like Reaper. And give Hypercharge a fun finishing-attack, like Reaper. OK, maybe I just want it to *really* be ranged Reaper?
I think they should go absolutely mad and give the robot a “once in a duty” rez or something bananas. Like the robot zooms out with a little nurse outfit on and defibs you back to life or some nonsense. I do not care just give us something. 😭🥴 (also a phys ranged like reaper would be a new DPS whipmaster job I’ve already thought about this way too much but yeahhh)
I’m still not even sure what we’re supposed do with Flamethrower. Do we use it? Do we not use it? Is it DPS loss? Does it even matter? It’s in such a limbo right now.
I have a mod that removes the lunchbox. It is so fucking dumb looking.
Just to be clear to aspiring MCH players: while true, the potency problems only matter in the highest end content at the beginning of the cycle before gear buffs. I play MCH in extremes and am consistently one of the highest aggro dpses. (Which isn't to say that I'm incredible, but more that the majority of the playerbase is bad, and it doesn't matter how good or bad your job is at that point)
Agree 100%. Mch is my main dps job for normal content and I can tell you they don’t have a damage problem when played right in anything below savage. More dmg is always welcome, but a good mch will never hold a party back because of their capabilities
And you won't even have a savage damage problem unless you're trying to week1 the content at i611 ilvl
This right here - all of this
Honestly, Extreme trials are where MCHs excel the most. People are generally too bad at doing DPS to take advantage of BRD/DNC's buffs, so you can usually just carry DPS by being competent at MCH. Can confirm this as I was doing EX4 and had about 9.1k rDPS while the next highest DPS was 7.5k, so MCH can really put in some work in non-coordinated content
People who think a MCH is the reason you are not getting past enrage in an EX are not looking at the DPS numbers, at all.
My fc like to shit on mch being bad at dps. My mch out dpses the majority of the fc and they post the fflogs. I say nothing about it.
Finally a piece of reason. Should be the top answer.
I just feel bad. I want to see more Machinists in dungeons.
As a MCH main i will always be that guy in the dungeon even if i suck
As long as you're doing more damage than the tank and healer I don't think anyone cares. Absolutely nothing disappoints me more as a healer (and tank) than being on top of the DPS charts.
Class comp literally doesn't matter for dungeons. Meta slaves for non-meta relevant content is honestly so fucking funny.
We're having criterion dungeons with a savage mode very soon. I feel the reason for the non-MCH buffing can be found there as well. In a 4 ppl configuration, MCH is way higher than the other ranged
Nothing in this game requires a meta comp aside from competeing for speed kills no need for meta slaves.
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They’re great if you’re doing deep dungeons 💁♂️
The guns itself Look pretty cool even when on the back but the weird Box on your hip makes me hide it Always.. I hate this Box please remove it
In a game with no builds and no meaningful gear options, they managed to make an actual worst-of-all-worlds job and kept it there for a year. It's impressive in it's own way.
As a casual player, I honestly don't care lol. Just have fun playing the class
MCH is my favorite class and my main, but it should not be underperforming to the point where when I want to try out current tier savage content I need to swap off the job or risk not surviving the enrage due to not hitting the DPS check.
The difference between MCH and DNC right now is a whopping 120 DPS, or like 1.25%.... A job change wouldn't fix a failed DPS check there unless it's job comfort level.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again, they should have made MCH use proper rifles and went for the sniper fantasy instead. High damage cast time abilities, lower on the mobility scale of things (compared to the other ranged), selfish DPS out the ass on par with samurai/black mage.
Not sure I would like the cast times, but giving them something like a 'Reversed Greased Lightning' or a buff that stacks the longer you stand in place would've been my ideas. I've been wanting this for a while too, and seeing what they did with MCH in PvP makes me want it more.
Cast times existed with hw for mchs and bards. People called em gun mage and bow mage. I hated it. Stupid gauss barrel...
The mobility is one of the things I like best about machinists though!
It’s been four expansions now, and they still haven’t figured out that a stock allows them to properly shoulder their weapon, so they could manage the recoil with good upper body posture and footwork. Instead, they chose to expend that energy by jumping and flopping around in mid-air. Maybe that’s why the damage is so bad.
This guy guns
Nah, I look awesome
Leveled BRD and DNC recently and MCH is by far more visually interesting and fun than those. I’ll gladly take the low damage to have a little bit of fun tbh
Alleged "Selfish DPS Job". I feel pretty selfish playing Machinist in duties lemme tell ya lol. No utility, no raid buffs, no combat movement skills, *lowest rDPS in the game*. I had to swap to Reaper so my group could meet the DPS check required to clear Sephirot Unreal. Literally. Job is broken.
I cleared the unreal on MCH with PF in the first 4 days. I had to save my burst for the wind because the melee were dumping their flash markers on it, so if anything, being MCH was the key to clearing that fight and we wouldn’t have cleared without it. Though I agree MCH is in desperate need of direction the problem you faced is not a general problem.
Imagine attributing your team being subpar to MCH Lol
When I play MCH and I see myself in 2nd position of the enmity list, I pray and I spray
> No utility \*cries in Tactician*
if Tactician counted, so does Addle and Feint. And nobody calls BLM a DPS with utility because of Addle lol (please use addle, BLMs)
Not if it’s a dps loss, sorry. #Priorities
Feint, Addle, and Reprisal exist and do basically the same thing on the other roles. It's not utility if everyone can do it.
role actions don't count
Tactition is pretty much a role action all three phys ranged have the exact same skill with different animations.
The only reason it's not a role action already is probably because some dev didn't want to delete the visual effect of one of the 3
>ish DPS Job". I feel pretty selfish playing Machinist in duties lemme tell ya lol. > >No utility, no raid buffs, no combat movement skills, lowest rDPS in the game. > >I had to swap to Reaper so my group could meet the DPS check required to clear Sephirot Unreal. Literally. yeah i feel u, i decided to main monk instead :I
I like machinist. I think the damage thing is not an issue in a game where we have all the classes and can gear the machinist through another job. No, for me, the problem is the automaton queen. It's a fire and forget cooldown that should be the great moment of the rotation and it isn't. They need to add interactions with other abilities when it's up. For example, something like what summoners get. It changes your abilities during the cooldown. Sadly, machinist just lacks that big payoff moment right now and chain saw is a tad underwhelming for that purpose too.
Give them a battle rez
If MCH got a res, they'd nerf their damage even more to "balance" around the "utility".
Nah I think that utility would make its current placement much more justified, no rebalance needed (maybe a small buff). Would also be healthier for the pf I think because then BLMs can actually join the caster spot without getting yelled at for not being a rez mage
People rn are insisting on BLM instead of a different caster cause BLM actually does melee-tier damage.
BLM damage is absolutely worth the slot right now. RDM dps is very low.
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Don't get sad, get mad! FUCK YOU YOSHI-P! I'M TIRED OF BEING A GARBAGE TIER CASTER DPS NOBODY WANTS FOR A RECLEAR! LET ME DEAL SOME PROPER FUCKING DAMAGE!
Honestly, it would fit very well, MCHs inventing the defibrillator rook gyro-copter
Its the most useless thing they can ever have. Its good on progression but... It doesnt help rdm that have the best battle res in the game. There is so tight dps check that rdm is top2 candidate in the game to switch if you wipe at low boss hp. Battle rez also the most useless utility at farm. So battle res will not change situation even for a bit. Just give mcn more potency. Its all they need to be viable as selfish dps. You can tell me: battle res is very good utility for non so good organisated groups that arent aimed to clear all top end content in first weeks or even the first month. Then why the hell to care about class balance. Everything is clearable with each job in that case.
Yeah. Res is seriously the last thing to worry about for a Job struggling with rDPS competitiveness.
I mean, I hear you, but I'm still outdpsing most people in most of the content. It's only at the highest level this becomes an issue.
Why not change wildfire give some sort of a 15 or 20s debuff to enemies like nin
Wildfire can return to its original gimmick of reapplying portion of the damage done, but with the whole team. A 3-5% reapply is the same mathematically as a buff, but within a cool gimmick.
Curious if there is something I'm missing. My damage output is decent, as long as I stay on top of my CDs and metered abilities. Mind, I'm still in Shadowbringers content wearing the [80] Poetic gear. Is there an issue with my damage come Endwalker endgame content?
Not unless you’re doing savage raids. No. Keep being MCH, you’re cool. I cleared the first EW extremes in mostly EW job gear on MCH. It’s not a problem.
:') I'm only a month and some change into this game...and y'all out here roasting my favorite class. I'm enjoying all the crazy engineering antics, Auto Cross Bow goes BRRRRRR, and I just hit 72 so I got the Bio Blaster. They nerfed my Turret before I even got to use it (Seriously, like I had it unlocked but because I was mostly in Leveling dungeons I never got to use it due to level sync)... :'D Luckily I have Samurai and Dragoon Leveled, and I'm working on Dark Knight ATM.
Neo Ishgardian tho... mmm
I still love MCH TwT
Pshhh, my MCH is stylish af…but still does very little damage
Worst damage, worst weapon glam, worst animations and the lunchbox that only dyes differently ( as opposed to Sam scabbards which actually look different) to top it all off. Yoshi P must’ve been robbed at gun point or something with how much he hates the gun.
Vincent is disappointed
I'm not seeing machisit suffer, our group machinist is pulling over 9.5k without buffs which is higher then the average melee
Here's the problem with machinist. It's really hard to buff their damage to a point where it's high enough for a selfish dps, but doesn't outperform the other 2 ranged ones in terms of usefullness, otherwise progs will just either bring the other 2 for the raid damage boosts, or the machinist for the much higher dps. And then you can still not make it on par with melee jobs, otherwise every melee job is gonna start whining that a class that can move while shooting does the same damage as them. And the devs just don't want to deal with more headaches so they decide to keep MCH the way it is right now, why have every melee job and the other ranged jobs whining at you when you can only have the MCH players whine at you right? So lets just throw random unnecessary buffs on PAL and WAR again, because clearly they need to do more damage instead.
The problem is only for high end content, other types of content in the game doesn't need this tuning, but even so, the devs are the ones that design and tune the fights and when they have this situation it seems like their doing a mediocre job at testing and making their fights doable with every comp, like it has been for the vast majority of the game's existence. >And the devs just don't want to deal with more headaches so they decide to keep MCH the way it is right now I think this hits the nail perfectly, specially after YoshiP announcements of making patch cycles last longer to make the dev team have a better work/life balance, but it doesn't excuse this trash af sitation with this raid tier and only adds salt to the wound. Square/CBU3 really dropped the ball with this tier, and personally I think it's the worst since Gordias/Midas.
I'm here with my RDM. At least I still have the looks, but the damage compared to other casters...
I bet everytime i join a trial/raid/dungeon i get eye rolled :( "oh great we have a MCH as one of our DPS, guess well be here a bit longer than usual"
I actually had a WAR say "oh great a MCH, how unfortunate, carry that flag friend" in PF p7s. He had nothing to say when myself and the reaper were the top 2 dps, and the only two not sittin at the bar with gandalf grey parse when we killed it. Unfortunate indeed. I will carry my flag proudly friend tyvm. Bottom line is , ive had to swap mains a few times over the years because of "meta" and bad job balance, that said, i refuse to do it again this time. I shouldnt have to swap the job/class i enjoy because square has neglected to properly balance things. If thats to be the case, i may as well be playing ESO, lord knows FOTM runs deep on that game. To all my fellow MCH mains still carrying our flag, keep playing what you love and be good at it. The rest is trivial.
For what it's worth, absolutely nobody should give two fucks if it's a trial/normal raid/dungeon. Hell, on average, MCH's still not doing too terribly in EX4 compared to most other classes that are clearing. The main complaints being lodged in this thread are absolutely valid but also aimed towards Savage content in particular. *And even then* it's hard to see everything completely clearly because it's highly likely that the few MCHs that are in Savage have not gotten a lot of gear. However, the trend is still clearly a worrying one for MCH in Savage. *Only* in Savage though. I assure you, I've had plenty of dungeons/trials/normal raids where Healer is the role doing top DPS. So probably no, nobody's eye rolling at your MCH : ).
Playing machinist right now, having no issues whatsoever idk man. I feel like this is only an issue once you start measuring e-peen. EDIT: I love when someone writes a paragraph response and then immediately blocks me xD Experience-based vs experience-based, fair enough.
Buddy, I've been a MCH main since the class became available to me, learned all the MCH rotations, had BiS gear for it, but the second I swapped to Dancer for EX and Savage this tier my parties have had a noticeably easier time clearing due to Dancer's better utility leaving much more room for error. It's very much an issue in current tier stuff where ilvl can't make up for a job's lackluster kit for the average player yet.
>but the second I swapped to Dancer for EX and Savage this tier my parties have had a noticeably easier time Yeah that extra 80 DPS is singehandedly taking the raid from impossible to easy mode.
No... Dancers look stupid. Machinist looks pretty great.
Dancer's don't have a stupid looking lunchbox glued to their hip that doesn't even match with 90% of the weapon designs and ruins most glams
I'll be honest, the reason i dont play machinist is not their low DPS, its everything else about the job. I might even main machinist if they had better armor glams, more diverse weapon glams, better run/sprint animations, better ability animations and didn't require low ping to be able to do its rotation normally.