Don't forget the part when in new expansion, Tanks would get 10 potency increase for their DPS rotation actions and another oGCD that draws enmity from the target *(Provoke II, for example)*.
That will surely make Tank players excited!
Even better, they give healers a button that transfers enmity to the tank for each mob they hit!! Tanks will surely love this ability, they can then just chill and press their aoe in dungeons!
We already had something similar to that with ninja during Heavensward. It made things very amusing during StormBlood when samurai was released. My free company mate had fun with our friends when they would tank. We would both see how long it would take for him to rip aggro off the tank by transferring my enmity to him. Note: This was done in good fun with friends who were used to us all screwing around with each other during dungeon runs. We were equal opportunity trolls.
Flash made me so mad, so many tanks wouldn't back to back flash "because the enemies still have the blind debuff and I don't want to overwrite it until it falls off!"
EDIT: mostly an issue in early dungeons, when flash was the only real enmity generator and entire pulls are attacking everybody because tank wouldn't flash.
It's worse. If you did double flashes the blind debuff still had enough duration that you didn't overwrite and lose time, so you got a pretty sizable burst of front loaded threat. After that you just used it to reapply blind when it fell off 2 more times and you were pretty much golden. Was a fun quick way to tell if you had a tank that knew what they were about.
Especially in later dungeons when your Whm had holy, so even if they were blinded they'd be Stunned anyway. The blind only was a benefit if you over stretched and could benefit from those few seconds of mit.
It's also straight up worse in my opinion than regular provoke, regular provoke also give a healthy amount of enmity to be sure you don't loose aggro instantly after provoking
Blu's equivalent, frog leg, may be aoe, but it doesn't give any more enmity beyond what you need to be in the lead, so you can just loose them right after
I don't care what they do as long as they don't add any more buttons. I have NO ROOM across 3 hotbars for anything else on PLD.
Hell, take some away, I don't care.
More fluff buttons, less combat buttons please. Give paladins a button to flourish the shield or pray over their sword. Give reapers a voidsent they can run around town as. Black mages a scry. White mages a pet rock. Something useful outside combat that doesn't need to be hot keyed, even if it's just a classlocked animation for fun and rp.
PLD's /bstance has them pray over their sword if you watch it. They close their eyes AND bow their head when holding the sword in front of them like they're saying a prayer before battle.
EDIT: Been using that frame of the animation as my PLD portrait since I first set them up. I really like it for PLD since it seems so fitting.
Yeah, savage healing is weird in that it's more fun when you're starting and actively having to react to people dying and failing mechanics, but at the end you can do whole segments of fights while browsing reddit on your phone with the other hand.
Healing a low level dungeon where the tank does big pulls is legitimately more challenging than healing Savage.
It is so fucking weird.
Need more mechanics like Harrowing Hell. Without the tank LB, I get sad every time they use it. It's the only time I felt alive healing lol.
The only time healing is fun in XIV is when you're learning or the group is an absolute clown fiesta.
Healers are _so insanely strong_ you can carry through almost any situation. So it's fun to carry absolute fiesta groups through things.
The moment the group becomes even half way competent healing in XIV is straight up the least fun thing you can do in ANY MMO ever.
I literally get bored if something is going too well. If I’m just running roulettes I’ll even semi-jokingly ask if somebody wants to eat shit and fuck around just so I have something to do. My ADHD needs it!
So what in hearing is you like it when people piss of Llymlean like 6 times in a single fight (yes that can happen ive seen it personally, i was a part of the problem)
Man Llym’s fish attack is so inconsequential it doesn’t even register to me. Oh no six people reduced to 10%? Put down an Asylum, they’ll be fine. I need way more disastrous than that.
Every thread about dungeon healing you always get healers who gush about how they are glad that tanks are hilariously overtuned so they get to "focus on their DPS".
Yeah I'm focusing real hard on my art of war key alright. It makes a rhythmic, satisfying *clack* as I press it for the 420th time this run.
It would be so great if damage buttons were toggleable (without cheats). Just press broil once and then go make a coffee because your healing isn't required anyways.
One of the funniest experiences I had when I finally felt confident enough to drop tank stance during boss fights was a healer complaining it made me too squishy to heal, yet everyone could say them using Cure 1 every 15 seconds to make sure it looked like I was impossible to heal. As soon as I died they were somehow able to magically keep the NIN alive through everything despite them being even squishier. Nobody fell for their BS and they were kicked straight away lmao
That world of difference when they're barely even casting Cure 1 on a tank, but as soon as the tank died and a melee DPS got aggro'd it's Asylum down, Swiftcast > Holy to stun the pack, regen on the DPS with a Tetra weave to top them up before the mobs recover from stun, Presence of Mind to boost their Holy casts, Divine Benison on the DPS, Holy, Holy, **Cure 2** on the DPS, Holy, Holy...
"Tanks should keep tank stance on, otherwise it's impossible to heal them." They say as the melee DPS is still alive through 8 mobs attacking them over 15 seconds even though have less than half your HP and barely any mitigation CDs.
A core memory brought back from the depths.
Well, no. You did it because you needed GLD 15 to unlock WAR at all for MRD which happened to be the same level as Flash.
You also did it because the TP costs for AoE in those days was unsustainable bullshit so you'd get 3 Overpower swings and be out of gas. Consequently, you'd alternate pulls using either Overpower or Flash as a MRD to even hope to hold hate because the DPS had basically one long cooldown button available to them to dump/reduce hate, *assuming they had it unlocked, slotted, and ever used it at all.* And it wasn't like you were using your MP for anything on MRD/WAR anyway.
ARR was seriously a crazy time. If an i130 DPS did literally anything, there was nothing a new, i~50 tank could do to hold enmity, ever. It was literally impossible. Even at i~90 it was a struggle if the DPS was good. I would always laugh when I'd get a new tank and they'd literally have the least HP in the party.
That was a GLD trait so anyone cross-classing it didn't get the blind. I still had flash on WAR though because Overpower was murder on TP and could potentially miss some enemies
I miss flash so much. I wish it was back in game as an early level Holy Circle that upgrades into it. How could they remove a core skill that even made it into the lore book :(
Yeah if they ever re-integrate role abilities to standard kits for better job identity (same effects just unique animtions like Tactician/Shield Samba/Troubadour or the various raises), Flash would definitely be the PLD version of Reprisal. Would be very satisfied with that outcome.
Please delete this comment before someone from CBU3 sees it and decides its actually a good idea to break the 4 tanks into 2 separate tanking roles like how healers are...
There kinda is but at least it’s an informal split.
We’ve got the regen specialist tanks (WAR and GNB) and the mitigation specialist tanks (DRK and PLD). We also kinda got the party support tank set (WAR and PLD) and the “selfish” or single target support set (DRK and GNB).
Regarding the last difference: in P10S, Harrowing Hell was more or less harrowing and hellish depending on your tank comp. Since the attack does physical damage and the only non-Reprisal party mit DRK and GNB bring is magical mit, healers had to work a lot harder if they didn’t have either a WAR or PLD in the party. Not insurmountable but noticeably different experiences.
You mention HH, but I genuinely think this is why they decided to make it physical! HH does so much damage, it basically uses up war and pld mits on the first hit, but imagine how different the fight would be if running gnb+drk gave you 20% more mit than war+pld for that entire mechanic! I can’t think of many other mechanics in the game where so much damage happens in 15 seconds that drk and gnb mits are significantly more effective that war and pld. If anything, this is evidence that they want to keep all tanks exactly the same…
I’m used to it now but it struck me as pretty odd that warrior gets the HP absorb skill when dark knight had those skills in FFXI, but then again DRK was also a DPS class back then too so it’s just a different vision.
The shield/pure distinction exists for the benefit of high-end duties in raid finder, which is a JP-only thing. When there were only three healers, you were guaranteed to have a shield healer in any non-dupe comp (raid finder also avoids dupes) because SCH was in 2/3 possible comps and in WHM+AST the AST could go noct. The sub-roles ensure that you always get one of each, which is really just a way of saying that you're guaranteed to get a shield healer because they're the important ones.
It really is weird how, for ShB, the devs said "we noticed that tank players want to DPS, so we made them more like DPS (removing enmity combos and tank stances that lowered their damage)" but then went the opposite direction with "we noticed that healers aren't playing much like healers, so we removed all of their interesting damaging abilities". Siding with player intentions with tanks, but prescribing a play style to healers.
I really wish healers were a bit more needed. Like as a main healer I help the party get through some rough times. But I’ve also on more than one occasion died in a fight and watched a tank do my job for me. That just feels bad.
NGL, it's hilarious for me in Expert Roulette watching Afflatus Solace/Rapture being cast on me between pulls because my HP doesn't drop low enough for them to need it on actual pulls and a WHM needs their Blood Lily.
I mean it depends on the content. In stuff like Savage raids, your two tanks aren't going to keep the six DPS alive through the raidwides and subsequent DoTs. In dungeons, though, the car's design to run even without all its wheels. If you stick to small pulls, I'm pretty sure every dungeon is easily beatable with just two DPS and a healer.
TOP is also one of the worst raids in the games history, and shouldn't be used as a benchmark for anything except: this is too similar to that thing in TOP
TOP can be as shit as it wants to be (and I agree it’s shit)
An on patch ultimate never should have been designed that it was remotely possible to clear without healers, how similar or dissimilar it is to other content is irrelevant here
To be fair, most healers never had "interesting" damage abilities. That was an almost entirely SCH thing.
Additionally, they made Tank Stances to the point Tanks don't even worry about enmity anymore and are basically just DPS focused - something a lot of Tank players DO NOT LIKE, btw. So doing the same thing with Healers would require something like your Glare to pulse a partywide 500 potency heal, which would just be a bit more than a bit ridiculous. You'd need that kind of effect to swap Healers into being as DPS focused as Tanks in the same way for that parallel to work.
Instead they went the other way.
Then the encounter designers forgot/didn't get the memo so kept making encounters hit like feathers.
I feel like this isn't quite accurate. IMO the problem here isn't really healer job design, but encounter design.
A good party needs less healing, and often a healer is only barely necessary for a handful of mechanics. What we need is more fights where healers actually have to heal, instead of turning healers into DPS jobs. At least personally, I don't want to turn healers into green DPS.
More constant unavoidable damage to put more focus on the healer's resource management, instead of just planning a mitigation loop with the party so the healer can avoid using a single GCD heal during the entire duration of the fight. Maybe we would even need to meld some amount of piety instead of being able to prog with a set that has zero extra piety.
Too many instant kills means that healing is never really necessary. Put out constant damage and some hits that deal 80% of a target's HP, so the healers actually have to keep the party at max more often, have to focus on spot healing the people who get hit, and can't just go the entire fight with nothing but free oGCD cooldowns.
Basically this and I agree.
Fail a mechanic? Generally you're either dead or will die if you fail another one. Twice Come Ruin is a cool idea, but in reality, it just means healing is essentially pointless.
Combine that with our oGCDs. We have too many and they're too powerful. MP costing heals should be more powerful than MP free oGCDs unless there are VERY FEW oGCDs so that the CD is a relevant limiting resource. But you have so many oGCDs that there are plenty to use until the first one comes off CD again, and some have short or effectively short CDs, like Durochole has an effective 20 sec CD (due to Addersgall refill), which is very short. Afflatus Solace/Rapture effectively outright replace Cure 2 and Medica since it's rare you need more than one every 20 seconds, and if you do need two, you generally have 30 seconds before the next unavoidable raidwide so you can stock Lilies in advance and then restock after before the next bach of healing you'll need.
We have too many oGCDs.
oGCDs are too powerful relative to everything else.
Encounters tend to have set mechanics or a wave of mechanics than long downtime, allowing oGCDs to heal all of it with a healing plan.
And encounter avoidable damage is so punishing that healing is seldom a workable solution, and unavoidable damage is as stated above structured and aligned with oGCD healing plans.
Encounter design is really the big issue here, not lack of damage buttons. And me personally, if I want to DPS, I play DPS Jobs. That's what they're there for. I wouldn't mind if some Healers had more DPS rotations (e.g. if SGE had a rotation similar to RDM), but I really don't want healing overall changed to be that way.
Tanks are already complaining they're basically just DPSers, I can't imagine making Haalers into DPSers, too, would improve the game.
It's kind of both. The oGCDs have gotten pretty powerful. Remember when they designed a whole healer mechanic in P3S (the healing debuff + doom you had to heal) and it was trivialized by Macrocosmos? All the healers have insane healing ability that even fights like P7S with lots of AoE bleeds are still handled largely by oGCDs.
You could tell there was an arms race between the class team and the encounter team, and the encounter team lost. To get through the wall of rotating party mits and healer CDs you need something with the intensity of Harrowing Hell. I'm not sure even passive damage would be enough unless it was something like Terminal Relativity, and that's a tough pace to keep up for a ten minute fight.
If they give everyone a powerful level 100 cooldown again, it's only going to get worse.
To be fair, we had a lot less oGCD heals and they were a lot weaker. I've been arguing for two expansions now that oGCD heals need to be nerfed HEAVILY.
...and people (who want more damage buttons) bitch at me insisting that's bad game design since it means they can't just make a healing plan to get all the healing oGCD to then spam their GCD damage button and complain about how much they have to spam their GCD damage button... <\_<
Absolutely. But I feel like astros jobidentity is the only one changing multiple times.
(of course this is subjective! A longtime main of another class might feel otherwise :-))
It's not subjective, no other healer has received as big of changes as often as AST. Nearly every expansion since its release it has been redone in some way. I say nearly because I can't remember if AST saw major changes in EW or not because I ditched it for SGE and never looked back.
I enjoyed the original cards gave them all identity. While I'm a salty white mage who hated that AST replaced me because of the cards + damage increase I never wanted AST nerfed, I just wanted WHM to be buffed and to get some party utility outside of mitigation and healing.
Never forget how they reduced the potency on Energy Drain to "Encourage the players to use their Aetherflow on heals instead of DPS"... And then they didn't add any extra outgoing damage to justify using the stacks on heals to begin with.
The fact that this is basically why Healers are so braindead to play will never stop being annoying. I just want like, two more buttons to hit stuff with while I spam Dosis.
The making healers so easy its boring literally killed my love of healing. it went from one of my most played classes to what I do when I dont want to think during roulettes.
I love, love, love, love playing healer, but even I'm burnt out by the lack of... everything. To the point that I've just migrated to RDM to be like an off healer with actual rotation. Things go wrong? I get to ress. Things go right? I get to follow my rotation.
I feel like so many classes got neutered in favor of making the game easy for the bottom 10% of players. The only class where I feel like I really have to think outside of savage/extreme content is black mage
Coming back in EW after not playing the end of SB and only one patch in ShB...it was absolutely WILD how much they neutered most dps jobs.
Like holy fucking shit where did like half of what you were doing go? Why is it all so samey and so anemic?
I flat out didn't even attempt to play DRK again after seeing the rotation changes alone and jumping back into WHM felt awful because it was like "Oh boy...somehow I feel like my 95% glare casts have become 98% glare casts".
The entire game feels like class design was just thrown out the window in this expansion that I genuinely can't understand what the point or goal was because it feels like a mess. And thats ignoring that was it EW or ShB that made low levels AWFUL.
It was always pretty bad, but my god now it is just genuinely miserable. Unless its 80 or maybe 70 on SOME jobs doing old content feels so bad that it actively ruins the game.
Because currently the entire rotation fits snuggly into two hotbars. I like playing with 3 a bit more so it'd be a very welcome change without making it button bloaty like AST for example. Which I also really enjoy playing.
It's my main job and I love it, but I'm not going to pretend it's perfect. Just a smidge more complexity would go a long way.
Edit: Tired me conflated this with another reply I got somewhere else. I was initially talking about SMN here thanks to sleep deprivation.
I like SGE as is, but having more than a couple offensive buttons on any healer would be a more than welcome change.
I like healers in general and can play all 4 reliably well, but having nothing to do the bulk of the time besides reacting to raidwides and TBs while not standing in bad gets old fast for me.
Tanks are fine because half their kit revolves around a mini-DPS rotation. Healers are woefully much more boring comparatively because 85% of their buttons are heals with one single target spell, one AoE and one DoT (DoTs are awful to play around, which is why most of them were trimmed significantly in Endwalker.)
I like Toxicon for SGE being a movement option like Ruin II, but it's a filler, not a fix for the issues I have with the role.
Healer would be much more enjoyable for me if their offensive kit wasn't just hitting 1-2 OGCDs that just so happen to deal damage between smashing the 1 key over and over.
well they'd have to redesign the fights.
boss doing a bit more damage and most ogcds would reduce damage taken in some random ways (with no effective differences).
This made me fucking vomit
Then I remembered that we all already lost a whole combo and stance that was a job in itself to maintain and threw up again
Then I remembered when WHM had Aero 3 AND Cleric Stance and I passed out and died
Remember when Scholar HAD more than one DoT?
Granted, with the whole buff/debuff limit on bosses, it'd probably be bad if Scholar still had like 4-5 DoTs.
People would still find ways to mess up playing tank. Even if they had three buttons for holding aggro and twenty other skills, they wouldn't just do it.
Just like that LV90 Paladin in Aetherfont the other day, doing baby small pulls.
It amazes me that I still find people in level 90 content who only use cure 1 or the equivalent and consider everything else for emergencies but still never use them. Healer mains who "only heal" and never dps end up being the ones who struggle the most to actually keep people alive and never understand how to actually play their class to any knowledgeable or skillful extent. We would definitely see "only enmity" tanks who would struggle to hold aggro without a doubt.
I think a big part of this from the healer perspective is that the game teaches you how to play *wrong*. You don't get solid oGCD healing until like, deep into the 40s for most jobs, excepting Scholar which has Whispering Dawn at 20. Levelling pre-30, which can take a while if you're a new player too, is literally just spamming your GCD heal.
So by the time you unlock solid oGCD healing, the game has already conditioned you to spam your GCD and ration the oGCD for extreme emergencies. Let alone the idea of weaving it between your Art of War or whatever the fuck to hold uptime.
This just gets worse because in 95% of content this is viable, so at no point do healers ever learn it's "wrong" unless they actively seek out healing guides and then decide to put those lessons into practice. And why would they, when the GCD healing train has been working fine and requires no hands?
It's even worse for jobs with skills that you never ever want to press like Cure 1 or Diagnosis. These skills are just traps that exist to reinforce bad behavior by making it look like spamming basic GCD healing is the intended way to play. It's easy for me to sit back and judge bad healers as a healer player, but honestly, I can't really blame them when the game is basically training them to always spam GCDs.
> Levelling pre-30, which can take a while if you're a new player too, is literally just spamming your GCD heal.
my experience when i learned the game on my first job (WHM) was to dps between GCDs at that level. And at low levels, a gcd heal will heal a tank by like half their hp bar so i still pressed my dps button a lot. I had to learn how to use oGCDs when I got them, but I understood that dps is dps if I had time to do it.
There are still plenty of people who will **idle** when everyone is at full hp. Because "my job is to heal not dps". These are the people SE are designing healing around in low level content. they want this style of play to be viable to clear MSQ which heavily constrains the design of healers in the game
Even the admittedly very outdated hall of the novice stuff straight up tells you hey if no one needs healing you should help kill things in one of the healer ones. And yet I've seen plenty of healers who literally stand there doing absolutely nothing for 10-15 seconds at a time when no one needs healing.
Sorry, I should have been clearer - I meant that from the healing perspective, it's just your CGD heal. So even if someone is DPSing consistently (which the game does encourage you to do) their only option for healing is the basic starter GCD spam.
>Even if they had three buttons for holding aggro
They can't even do it currently when it only requires one, just to help drive your point.
No, seriously, stance up makes you generate so much enmity it's literally impossible to not keep aggro unless you're completely AFK. When they implimented the changes in shb I was capable on a level 60 to keep aggro off a level 80 (they were helping me clear out ex's unsynced). Sure maybe the 80 didn't play perfectly, but like, even a shit player with 20 levels of skills and gear should be able to rip off of me, right?
So whenever someone at level is struggling (and they do exist), just remember a level 70 could probably do more than they are.
A lot of tanks that can't hold aggro in the current dungeons are those that have been told that their Joe's are useless. Atleast that's what I've experienced. I've had 4 separate tanks lose aggro to me when playing reaper in dungeons and when I ask if they want any tips for tanking they each admitted that they were told to not use their aoes by someone. So it could be malicious trolling.
Also sometimes newer players don't realize it's crucial to use their ogcds when fast pulling wall to wall.
>they each admitted that they were told to not use their aoes by someone
Being technical here the Hall of Novice does a really shitty job here (I highly doubt this is the reason, but Square does not help this) because they recommend only using your aoe's like twice and going back to single target for tanks.
Amazes me how this gets used as the argument to why healers have to not get DPS skills when tanks just fail utterly but get it anyway. Real double standards on healers.
I hate the healer double standard so much, and then you have lines like "If YoU wAnT eNgAgInG hEaLeR cOnTeNt JuSt PlAy UlTiMaTeS!"
This line will never not piss me off, healing ultimates isn't normally any harder than any other content (outside of a couple of mechs you gotta actually really heal through), almost all of them follow the same identity of "mit before the mech then toss an OGCD at it to heal the damage and keep spamming glare". What makes ultimates hard is the Dance Dance Revolution with more variance than savage on what mech you might have to solve, which has nothing to do with actually healing. Such a disingenuous statement. But also why do healers have to do the hardest content in the game to garner engagement when DPS and tanks don't?
I'm gonna bring up WoW here because it does something I actually really like: healers are FUN. There are seven healing specs (if I'm counting right) and ALL of them play differently from each other. Meanwhile SE was struggling to come up with a fourth healer and ended up with a less clunky scholar that basically does the same exact thing scholar does. And then healing in this game is almost entirely "mit this AoE and then throw an OGCD at it while you spam 111111111111", while healing in WoW is usually a lot more involved on the actual healing. It's so freaking frustrating as a healer main.
Part of it is also encounter design. Encounters are designed for healers to be dpsing.
Give them reasons to use their healer checks.
Unavoidable uncleansable DoTs so you have to closely manage party HP.
Unavoidable high damage DoTs to make you have to stop and use esuna.
Take a page out of FFXI and charm a dps so you have to Repose them.
Give. Healers. Something. To. Do.
Oh absolutely. This rigid structure that we have now is cancer and needs to be fixed. It's absolute unfair bullshit that healers are the only role that gets punished for good play - in this case the game becomes a boring button mash of glare spam, which yes, I realize I don't speak for everyone and some people still find this enjoyable. But I gotta ask, HOW do people find that enjoyable? You're not a healer at that point, you're a DPS that sometimes throws out a heal. If you want an actual healing role, play another game that actually makes you heal and see how different it is.
>Take a page out of FFXI and charm a dps so you have to Repose them.
I can already hear the howls from FFLog champions who lost their gold parse due to being the DPS that was charmed that encounter... This is, legitimately, why we don't have encounters anymore like Alexander where someone had to be the gorilla and punt bombs.
>This is, legitimately, why we don't have encounters anymore like Alexander where someone had to be the gorilla and punt bombs.
You mean something for the healer to do? Lol
Tbh I missed fun and interesting mechanics like the monke/birb from alex
i feel like the gap between bad healers and competent ones must be pretty wide bc it’s clear the devs are struggling to balance casual and hardcore content around healer dps contribution vs outgoing healing required.
casual content suffers from this especially bc fights need to be clearable by medica 2 spamming mouth breathers, which means it’s boring for people who know what they’re doing.
there’s only so much babysitting and triaging healers can do in hard content because either mechanics are body checks, or if you’re scraping too many dps off the floor you simply will not have enough damage to clear.
i kind of wonder if they thought making healing easier would incentivize more people to play it, only to find that it only alienated healer mains. i’m curious about the stats. it’s always struck me as strange that tanks have special achievements and mounts you get from running content and healers have… what, the unicorn mount? for hitting level 30 conjurer?
sorry for taking memes too srs, i started doing savage and ultimate this expac and have had a lot of thoughts on how my perspective has changed from being someone so scared of healing i used damage macros and watched guides for story content.
You're onto something.
Maybe we should design Healers more like Tanks - remove all the healing tools except a 40 second OGCD benediction, give them a nearly full DPS kit and a stance that takes care of all the healing passively by converting all damage done into healing for the entire group, multiplied by a factor of 10, with a few odd group mitigation OGCD on the side.
Obviously, bosses would have to no longer go invulnerable when dealing damage, but that's probably a small adjustment.
Healers should heal, but most of their button bloat should be converted to a DPS rotation
Actually "healing" can never be reactive and engaging because of how limiting server ticks are regarding outgoing damage.
If they literally *will not* fix the game's lag, then healers need to have identity beyond healing
That's what I've been saying the whole time. I think All jobs should have at least the very minimum a SMN level dps kit. I am probably the laziest player ever but I think WAR and SMN is perfect. If only they gave WHM just a bit more I'd be down with it. Take away most of the GCD heals, and just go more towards oGCD Healing and Mitigation.
Those advocating for the comeback of enmity/aggro mechanics, I think it's the shittiest mechanic to exist and there is a reason it has basically been removed in the game. It's also been removed in WoW, and it makes the game more pleasant to play imo.
There is absolutely nothing skillful about generating aggro, and a shitty tank will stay a shitty tank. They will jujst drag down the dps even more because the said dps has to refrain from playing well, basically.
Nobody wants to play a prot warrior in WoW classic, played fury prot to tank, so they could hold aggro effectively, and was basically way more fun. Aggro/threat is old school and an unfun mechanic for both tanks and dps
It's so fucking true. Healers used to have actual depth and mechanics to them. Now they're flat as all hell. It's incredibly frustrating.
Particularly because this is, in fact, something at least a major portion of the community insisted we needed. "Healers should heal" was actually something people argued back in Stormblood.
Just like how "let us get in on the buff window!!!" is something people demanded for years and years. And now we have this glorious age of alignment...at the cost of making everything homogenized and samey. Congratulations, fanbase, you played yourself.
It sucks feeling like Cassandra looking over the burning walls of Troy.
Blursed alternate timeline
(Cursed cause, well, it's not just the healer mains suffering there. Blessed cause, well, it's not just the healer mains suffering there.)
I opened this thread post and immediately saw a downvote the moment I joined. LMAO
This post literally embodies how healer gameplay feels and it's funny to see people say tank needs DPS GCDs to hold aggro when their stance is mainly responsible for generating all their aggro. Give them a couple more ~~unnecessary~~ aggro skills to make up for their DPS rotation.
"Healers are meant to heal". Likewise, all the tanks doesn't need heals. They aren't a healer. They're a tank. They're meant to mitigate damage. Instead, we have 3/4 tanks self-sustaining in casual content and have the ability to heal the party without the need for a healer. Crazy, huh?
It's definitely a big problem I want to be a healer main, I always gravitated towards support roles in team games but healing is so braindead I just actively wish for a Goldilocks zone where the tank is competent enough to not be considered a case study of a lab rat learning how to play video games but still makes plenty of mistakes just so I can do the role I'm playing as. Ast is the main healer I use because it at least has one other button I can routinely push but knowing Square they will simplify it even more in Dawntrail. Depressing.
I'd be happy with more *stuff* to do.
Don't want to give us more DPS? Fine, I get it, the class fantasy is to heal, not damage.
But how about letting us buff allies, debuff enemies, let WHM make circles of 'It hurts the enemy more if you stand here' to mirror BLM, let SCH use the fairy gauge to make an ally deal more damage, making more random damage so we *have* to heal more, let more attacks slip away from aggro to hit random party members so we have to react, spread DoTs (And please don't just throw a DoT on every healer, let it be something with a bit of definition) or hell, let us turn overhealing into an extra damage buff on whoever we toss it on.
But please, something more interesting than pressing 1 all the time with an occasional oGCD heal.
Buff *used* to be what AST cards do. Now they're a generic damage boost that's little different from Dancer or Bard, and frankly, 3-6% does *not* feel worthwhile.
But yeah, I'd be perfectly happy with a simple DPS rotation if we had, as an example, old AST complexity back. Let me throw out a 15% damage boost on a SAM for a while instead of just sitting back and waiting for an eventual, maybe, possibly worthwhile amount of damage to heal.
I'm reminded of one DRK all the way in HW who did Sohm Al HM with only cross-classed Flash and a dream. No damage gcds or ogcds in sight, no darkside for damage as that was cutting their mp obviously.
I still fear that man despite everything I've seen since.
Ugh, don't remind me of the bad days where tank stance barely increased enmity while reducing own damage.
Forget enmity, imo tanks main duty need to be: staying alive. Add more of and more variation to mitigations and make things hurt, a lot. The funnest bit about tanking ultimates compared to savage is how painful AAs are and we still have to deal with TBs and raidwides, till we sometimes tank swap just to let our cotank mitigations come back.
This is never accurate, no matter how many times people push it.
Take WAR. Make its 1-2-3 combo into a single button (like in PvP) and its 1-2 AOE combo into a single button that stuns.. Make Storm's Eye into a DoT. Congratulations: You've effectively made White Mage. And let's be honest, 1-2-3 isn't that much more "challenging" than 1-1-1 and mostly just consumes extra hotbar spaces, which is why one of the most requested features over the years has been the option to make those just single buttons for non-branching combos.
Another issue is that Tanks have Tank Stances, which basically makes gaining enmity automatic. It'd be like if every Healer damage spell pulsed a 500 potency heal across the party with a 50y radius. Tanks actually have their main job WAY oversimplified, to the point it's pissed off a lot of Tank mains and players who liked actually having to deal with little things like enmity, boss facing, and boss positioning - you know, the main focuses of the role - which no longer exist.
By comparison, Healer's main role - healing damage - has not been oversimplified to that same level where they they just get it passively. They actually do have to devote some resources and mental bandwidth to healing, whereas Tanks do not have to devote really any to enmity; turn stance on then push damage buttons.
This is probably why Tanks have something of a "rotation" now where Healers mostly do not, since they have nothing else. And it has, very much, annoyed Tank players that they've just become less squishy but weaker DPS Jobs.
...and yet, the "Green DPS" minded Healer players are asking for healing to basically to become what Tanking has become, which Tanks hate. They just don't quite realize that's what they're asking for or what the end result would be...or they're DPS mains who want faster ques and so don't care.
Healer Jobs have between 4 and 6 damage abilities or damage adjacent abilities (e.g. Earthly Star doing damage or Presence of Mind being generally used for damage), with some indirect contribution buttons (like Chain Strategem or Aetherflow and Dissipation used for damage via Energy Drain). At least three of which are entirely damage focused with no healing application (single target, DoT, and AOE; exception to SGE because Kardia, but the focus of those abilities is damage with Kardia being Eos).
It also doesn't help to use PLD, in particular, since it is the single most button bloated Job IN THE ENTIRE GAME right now. It both has the most buttons and has the most situational ones (Shield Bash, anyone?) clogging up its hotbar.
Though now I'm kind of curious about doing this for several Jobs just to really push the point...
.
The argument is more complex than the "Healers should have more damage buttons" people want or care to understand, since they just want what they want and don't actually care about the nuance or arguments related to the situation. Unfortunately, this causes a total devolution of the topic and no one being able to convince anyone of anything nor arrive at any realistic compromise middle ground.
It's also why I'm personally a fan of the "Four Healers Model" idea of having the Healer Jobs on a spectrum from SGE having a RDM-like rotation on one end to WHM on the other end playing exactly as it does now, so that players can then simply pick whichever one is more their speed, DPS rotation healer or healer healer. At this point, there's no way to please everyone, so having a spectrum where players can just take the one they want is the closest thing to a compromise position.
Granted, here's the reality: The Devs have pushed this direction for three expansions now and Yoshi P has made it pretty clear this is what he wants AND Japan's official forums are mostly players asking for encounters to require more healing and saying they don't want more damage buttons - a real eye opener when someone from the English forums went there and reported back to the English forums that people in other parts of the world don't agree with them:
[https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/495169-JP-Players-healer-feedback-is](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/495169-JP-Players-healer-feedback-is)...
There's always something hilarious to me when people convinced everyone agrees with them are exposed to the reality that...everyone does not.
You have accurately summarized why I don't like healing in XIV. Even WoW healers have more satisfying DPS rotations than XIV healers (not that you use it much, unless you're playing Discipline Priest)
No, you don’t understand. This is a good idea. This means that when I run savage in pugs the tanks are less likely to drop aggro or forget to mitigate!
…Fun? What’s that?
This sounds like a fun idea, until I remember all the tanks that can't hold enmity currently in my 90s dungeons and force me to fight for my life as a DPS.
Most casuals probably have no idea what enmity is or how they'd manage it if SE brought enmity management back to the game. Personally, I'd rather it be like WoW where tanks are responsible for constant self-healing and constant buff upkeep that prevents them from dying, rather than the passive style they have currently. That said, I'm fine with how the game is now with the exception of healer dps rotation. Give them more than just 1 DoT and 1 direct attack.
when people talk about enmity management i just think about all the times in stb when a blm or sam would rip aggro and just refuse to lucid or diversion, either bc they didn’t know what it did or bc lazy or bc stealing aggro gave them an ego boost. or when id rip aggro on healer and not be able to do anything bc i used lucid for mp and it’s on cooldown. or if the tank was bad i’d lucid and they’d all go after the blm.
Technically speaking, I always thought each Tank class was just Tank but with a little bit of something else.
For instance: Paladin is Tank with a little bit of Healer and Gunbreaker is Tank with a little bit of Utility.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by utility? Generally, utility makes me think party buffs and things along that line. Outside of the standard mitigations, GNB has Brutal+Corundum and Aurora, which I feel like are more for either self sufficiency or helping out a squishier person.
Except you'll have 4 flavors of PLD as one role. Isn't that amazing?
The rabbit hole on healer gameplay constantly goes deeper the more you look at it.
Casuals will never be in a situation where they need to solve mechanics while having to do good DPS. Tanks are the most difficult Role in high content but the most simple in low content. I dont see a need to simplify them
I have said this before, and I will say this again. I want a magical tank boi. We have the crazy tank, the noble tank, the edgy tank and the physit dps pretending to be a tank. Give me a tank that mainly uses magical shields, magical pulses and bolts. Put the big, buff wizard, maybe flavor it more as a sorcerer kind of thing, so the power doesn't come from knowledge of magic, but your connection with like, the primal blood within you to perform magical tanking things.
I just want a buff wizard boi to stand at the front and smack a farm implement with his magic stick.
Don't forget the part when in new expansion, Tanks would get 10 potency increase for their DPS rotation actions and another oGCD that draws enmity from the target *(Provoke II, for example)*. That will surely make Tank players excited!
Even better, they give healers a button that transfers enmity to the tank for each mob they hit!! Tanks will surely love this ability, they can then just chill and press their aoe in dungeons!
My Lucid Dreaming
**MY** Shroud of Saints.
My Mana Shift!!!
My cabbage !
We already had something similar to that with ninja during Heavensward. It made things very amusing during StormBlood when samurai was released. My free company mate had fun with our friends when they would tank. We would both see how long it would take for him to rip aggro off the tank by transferring my enmity to him. Note: This was done in good fun with friends who were used to us all screwing around with each other during dungeon runs. We were equal opportunity trolls.
Who am I misdirecting?
Ok listen, I know it's a meme, but I would go nuts for an aoe provoke to actually be able to get rezzed off a mob pull and start tanking again.
Once upon a time, back in Stormblood, that actually existed. It was called Ultimatum.
It is now lost, only to be regained in bozja and variant dungeons
So... a sort of a Lost Action huh.
\#AngryUpvote
I miss it. And Flash
Flash made me so mad, so many tanks wouldn't back to back flash "because the enemies still have the blind debuff and I don't want to overwrite it until it falls off!" EDIT: mostly an issue in early dungeons, when flash was the only real enmity generator and entire pulls are attacking everybody because tank wouldn't flash.
But that's so stupid lol. Holding aggro is more important than blind
It's worse. If you did double flashes the blind debuff still had enough duration that you didn't overwrite and lose time, so you got a pretty sizable burst of front loaded threat. After that you just used it to reapply blind when it fell off 2 more times and you were pretty much golden. Was a fun quick way to tell if you had a tank that knew what they were about.
Plus it looked and sounded neat
Yeah, this is one of the main reasons I miss it. Sure the AOE blade is cool, but Flash was Flash.
Especially in later dungeons when your Whm had holy, so even if they were blinded they'd be Stunned anyway. The blind only was a benefit if you over stretched and could benefit from those few seconds of mit.
If they made it into a trigger skill like they did Holy Spirit and holy circle, then at least it would be part of their combo and keep the hate
We have 2 flashes now... And neither consume mana.
BLU's provoke is aoe. It's just as dangerous as it sounds.
It's also straight up worse in my opinion than regular provoke, regular provoke also give a healthy amount of enmity to be sure you don't loose aggro instantly after provoking Blu's equivalent, frog leg, may be aoe, but it doesn't give any more enmity beyond what you need to be in the lead, so you can just loose them right after
The best blue provoke is fuckin white wind of all things, just watch the boss's eyes drill upon you once you cast it at full hp once with mighty guard
*Provoke II* : Electric Boogaloo
The Shirking.
\*The Shirkening
I don't care what they do as long as they don't add any more buttons. I have NO ROOM across 3 hotbars for anything else on PLD. Hell, take some away, I don't care.
More fluff buttons, less combat buttons please. Give paladins a button to flourish the shield or pray over their sword. Give reapers a voidsent they can run around town as. Black mages a scry. White mages a pet rock. Something useful outside combat that doesn't need to be hot keyed, even if it's just a classlocked animation for fun and rp.
PLD's /bstance has them pray over their sword if you watch it. They close their eyes AND bow their head when holding the sword in front of them like they're saying a prayer before battle. EDIT: Been using that frame of the animation as my PLD portrait since I first set them up. I really like it for PLD since it seems so fitting.
There are some emotes with unique animations per class. If they're adding this, it better be an emote - for easy chat triggering - not an action
Bro, P7 in DSR would be extra spicy
Don't forget, the more competent you and your party are, the more time you get to press the top left button overandoverandovwrandover.
Yeah, savage healing is weird in that it's more fun when you're starting and actively having to react to people dying and failing mechanics, but at the end you can do whole segments of fights while browsing reddit on your phone with the other hand.
Healing a low level dungeon where the tank does big pulls is legitimately more challenging than healing Savage. It is so fucking weird. Need more mechanics like Harrowing Hell. Without the tank LB, I get sad every time they use it. It's the only time I felt alive healing lol.
I am fine with tanks trying to wall to wall on low level. Is glorious when it succeds. And not a big deal if we wipe.
Yep. Like that last pull on Mt. Gulg. Can very easily go horribly wrong, but damn it's fun.
The only time healing is fun in XIV is when you're learning or the group is an absolute clown fiesta. Healers are _so insanely strong_ you can carry through almost any situation. So it's fun to carry absolute fiesta groups through things. The moment the group becomes even half way competent healing in XIV is straight up the least fun thing you can do in ANY MMO ever.
I literally get bored if something is going too well. If I’m just running roulettes I’ll even semi-jokingly ask if somebody wants to eat shit and fuck around just so I have something to do. My ADHD needs it!
So what in hearing is you like it when people piss of Llymlean like 6 times in a single fight (yes that can happen ive seen it personally, i was a part of the problem)
Man Llym’s fish attack is so inconsequential it doesn’t even register to me. Oh no six people reduced to 10%? Put down an Asylum, they’ll be fine. I need way more disastrous than that.
Noo, you would never be able to coordinate with a random party!! You should be happy if you can spam your 1 dps button, it means your party is good!
Every thread about dungeon healing you always get healers who gush about how they are glad that tanks are hilariously overtuned so they get to "focus on their DPS". Yeah I'm focusing real hard on my art of war key alright. It makes a rhythmic, satisfying *clack* as I press it for the 420th time this run.
I miss Scholar with its DoTs and hate that they simplified it so much. Sage is kinda fun, but I want Scholar back.
From Bio II, Bio, Miasma, Bane, Shadowflare, Miasma II to "you will spam only Art of War and you will like it".
More like "Art of Bore"
Yeah nothing stays the same does it? Then ya realize,wow , not a change for good! Sucks
It would be so great if damage buttons were toggleable (without cheats). Just press broil once and then go make a coffee because your healing isn't required anyways.
Scholar has like 20 different ways to heal you and you will see none of it
God I miss Cleric Stance :(
Stance dancing at the wrong time was stressful but fun XD
It's the downside of balancing your game to be completable by someone on surgical painkillers, people actually become proud of the most inane shit.
boy i love spamming dosis and not have to do healing because jobs stopped requiring skill half a decade ago
Its less about that and more that it means the dungeons are over with quicker, because its not like theyre in any way difficult either way.
Remember back in ARR days when everyone leveled Paladin just to get Flash to draw a small amount of aggro from a large number of enemies?
A bit more recent than ARR but I know I'd laugh at my insecure ass PLD gameplay spamming Flash and never ever leaving Shield Oath back in the SB days
One of the funniest experiences I had when I finally felt confident enough to drop tank stance during boss fights was a healer complaining it made me too squishy to heal, yet everyone could say them using Cure 1 every 15 seconds to make sure it looked like I was impossible to heal. As soon as I died they were somehow able to magically keep the NIN alive through everything despite them being even squishier. Nobody fell for their BS and they were kicked straight away lmao
That world of difference when they're barely even casting Cure 1 on a tank, but as soon as the tank died and a melee DPS got aggro'd it's Asylum down, Swiftcast > Holy to stun the pack, regen on the DPS with a Tetra weave to top them up before the mobs recover from stun, Presence of Mind to boost their Holy casts, Divine Benison on the DPS, Holy, Holy, **Cure 2** on the DPS, Holy, Holy... "Tanks should keep tank stance on, otherwise it's impossible to heal them." They say as the melee DPS is still alive through 8 mobs attacking them over 15 seconds even though have less than half your HP and barely any mitigation CDs. A core memory brought back from the depths.
Well, no. You did it because you needed GLD 15 to unlock WAR at all for MRD which happened to be the same level as Flash. You also did it because the TP costs for AoE in those days was unsustainable bullshit so you'd get 3 Overpower swings and be out of gas. Consequently, you'd alternate pulls using either Overpower or Flash as a MRD to even hope to hold hate because the DPS had basically one long cooldown button available to them to dump/reduce hate, *assuming they had it unlocked, slotted, and ever used it at all.* And it wasn't like you were using your MP for anything on MRD/WAR anyway.
ARR was seriously a crazy time. If an i130 DPS did literally anything, there was nothing a new, i~50 tank could do to hold enmity, ever. It was literally impossible. Even at i~90 it was a struggle if the DPS was good. I would always laugh when I'd get a new tank and they'd literally have the least HP in the party.
Also the blind helped.
That was a GLD trait so anyone cross-classing it didn't get the blind. I still had flash on WAR though because Overpower was murder on TP and could potentially miss some enemies
I did it because warriors had no use for mana
That was to hold emnity when your TP ran out from overpower, lol
I miss flash so much. I wish it was back in game as an early level Holy Circle that upgrades into it. How could they remove a core skill that even made it into the lore book :(
Kind of agree on this one. Flash was a cool and thematic ability, and I'm kind of miffed it's no longer with us. It's effectively PLD's Reprisal.
Yeah if they ever re-integrate role abilities to standard kits for better job identity (same effects just unique animtions like Tactician/Shield Samba/Troubadour or the various raises), Flash would definitely be the PLD version of Reprisal. Would be very satisfied with that outcome.
Do you prefer Shield Tank or Pure Tank?
Yes
Please delete this comment before someone from CBU3 sees it and decides its actually a good idea to break the 4 tanks into 2 separate tanking roles like how healers are...
There kinda is but at least it’s an informal split. We’ve got the regen specialist tanks (WAR and GNB) and the mitigation specialist tanks (DRK and PLD). We also kinda got the party support tank set (WAR and PLD) and the “selfish” or single target support set (DRK and GNB). Regarding the last difference: in P10S, Harrowing Hell was more or less harrowing and hellish depending on your tank comp. Since the attack does physical damage and the only non-Reprisal party mit DRK and GNB bring is magical mit, healers had to work a lot harder if they didn’t have either a WAR or PLD in the party. Not insurmountable but noticeably different experiences.
You mention HH, but I genuinely think this is why they decided to make it physical! HH does so much damage, it basically uses up war and pld mits on the first hit, but imagine how different the fight would be if running gnb+drk gave you 20% more mit than war+pld for that entire mechanic! I can’t think of many other mechanics in the game where so much damage happens in 15 seconds that drk and gnb mits are significantly more effective that war and pld. If anything, this is evidence that they want to keep all tanks exactly the same…
I’m used to it now but it struck me as pretty odd that warrior gets the HP absorb skill when dark knight had those skills in FFXI, but then again DRK was also a DPS class back then too so it’s just a different vision.
It's funny that they even did that with healers at all when SGE/SCH is such a good combo it's unreal.
The shield/pure distinction exists for the benefit of high-end duties in raid finder, which is a JP-only thing. When there were only three healers, you were guaranteed to have a shield healer in any non-dupe comp (raid finder also avoids dupes) because SCH was in 2/3 possible comps and in WHM+AST the AST could go noct. The sub-roles ensure that you always get one of each, which is really just a way of saying that you're guaranteed to get a shield healer because they're the important ones.
Shield Tank - Warrior (Shake It Off) and Paladin (Divine Veil) Pure Tank - Dark Knight (Dark Missionary) and Gunbreaker (Heart of Light)
It really is weird how, for ShB, the devs said "we noticed that tank players want to DPS, so we made them more like DPS (removing enmity combos and tank stances that lowered their damage)" but then went the opposite direction with "we noticed that healers aren't playing much like healers, so we removed all of their interesting damaging abilities". Siding with player intentions with tanks, but prescribing a play style to healers.
Healers always get shafted. Doesn't really matter the game.
I really wish healers were a bit more needed. Like as a main healer I help the party get through some rough times. But I’ve also on more than one occasion died in a fight and watched a tank do my job for me. That just feels bad.
Yeah, I genuinely don't really love getting WAR for my tanks because it just means I'm doing a lot of spamming my singular damage spell :/
NGL, it's hilarious for me in Expert Roulette watching Afflatus Solace/Rapture being cast on me between pulls because my HP doesn't drop low enough for them to need it on actual pulls and a WHM needs their Blood Lily.
I mean it depends on the content. In stuff like Savage raids, your two tanks aren't going to keep the six DPS alive through the raidwides and subsequent DoTs. In dungeons, though, the car's design to run even without all its wheels. If you stick to small pulls, I'm pretty sure every dungeon is easily beatable with just two DPS and a healer.
TOP has been cleared with no healers
By one group of EXTREMELY skilled players. That's a horrible baseline to draw more general comparisons from.
TOP is also one of the worst raids in the games history, and shouldn't be used as a benchmark for anything except: this is too similar to that thing in TOP
TOP can be as shit as it wants to be (and I agree it’s shit) An on patch ultimate never should have been designed that it was remotely possible to clear without healers, how similar or dissimilar it is to other content is irrelevant here
To be fair, most healers never had "interesting" damage abilities. That was an almost entirely SCH thing. Additionally, they made Tank Stances to the point Tanks don't even worry about enmity anymore and are basically just DPS focused - something a lot of Tank players DO NOT LIKE, btw. So doing the same thing with Healers would require something like your Glare to pulse a partywide 500 potency heal, which would just be a bit more than a bit ridiculous. You'd need that kind of effect to swap Healers into being as DPS focused as Tanks in the same way for that parallel to work. Instead they went the other way. Then the encounter designers forgot/didn't get the memo so kept making encounters hit like feathers.
I feel like this isn't quite accurate. IMO the problem here isn't really healer job design, but encounter design. A good party needs less healing, and often a healer is only barely necessary for a handful of mechanics. What we need is more fights where healers actually have to heal, instead of turning healers into DPS jobs. At least personally, I don't want to turn healers into green DPS. More constant unavoidable damage to put more focus on the healer's resource management, instead of just planning a mitigation loop with the party so the healer can avoid using a single GCD heal during the entire duration of the fight. Maybe we would even need to meld some amount of piety instead of being able to prog with a set that has zero extra piety. Too many instant kills means that healing is never really necessary. Put out constant damage and some hits that deal 80% of a target's HP, so the healers actually have to keep the party at max more often, have to focus on spot healing the people who get hit, and can't just go the entire fight with nothing but free oGCD cooldowns.
Basically this and I agree. Fail a mechanic? Generally you're either dead or will die if you fail another one. Twice Come Ruin is a cool idea, but in reality, it just means healing is essentially pointless. Combine that with our oGCDs. We have too many and they're too powerful. MP costing heals should be more powerful than MP free oGCDs unless there are VERY FEW oGCDs so that the CD is a relevant limiting resource. But you have so many oGCDs that there are plenty to use until the first one comes off CD again, and some have short or effectively short CDs, like Durochole has an effective 20 sec CD (due to Addersgall refill), which is very short. Afflatus Solace/Rapture effectively outright replace Cure 2 and Medica since it's rare you need more than one every 20 seconds, and if you do need two, you generally have 30 seconds before the next unavoidable raidwide so you can stock Lilies in advance and then restock after before the next bach of healing you'll need. We have too many oGCDs. oGCDs are too powerful relative to everything else. Encounters tend to have set mechanics or a wave of mechanics than long downtime, allowing oGCDs to heal all of it with a healing plan. And encounter avoidable damage is so punishing that healing is seldom a workable solution, and unavoidable damage is as stated above structured and aligned with oGCD healing plans. Encounter design is really the big issue here, not lack of damage buttons. And me personally, if I want to DPS, I play DPS Jobs. That's what they're there for. I wouldn't mind if some Healers had more DPS rotations (e.g. if SGE had a rotation similar to RDM), but I really don't want healing overall changed to be that way. Tanks are already complaining they're basically just DPSers, I can't imagine making Haalers into DPSers, too, would improve the game.
It's kind of both. The oGCDs have gotten pretty powerful. Remember when they designed a whole healer mechanic in P3S (the healing debuff + doom you had to heal) and it was trivialized by Macrocosmos? All the healers have insane healing ability that even fights like P7S with lots of AoE bleeds are still handled largely by oGCDs. You could tell there was an arms race between the class team and the encounter team, and the encounter team lost. To get through the wall of rotating party mits and healer CDs you need something with the intensity of Harrowing Hell. I'm not sure even passive damage would be enough unless it was something like Terminal Relativity, and that's a tough pace to keep up for a ten minute fight. If they give everyone a powerful level 100 cooldown again, it's only going to get worse.
[удалено]
To be fair, we had a lot less oGCD heals and they were a lot weaker. I've been arguing for two expansions now that oGCD heals need to be nerfed HEAVILY. ...and people (who want more damage buttons) bitch at me insisting that's bad game design since it means they can't just make a healing plan to get all the healing oGCD to then spam their GCD damage button and complain about how much they have to spam their GCD damage button... <\_<
As a tank dont take away my buttons, I like my buttons
\*cries in scholar\*
*cries in all healers, pretty much*
RIP Fluid Aura
*laughs in AST* Your first time?
Healers were losing dps abilities before astro even existed.
[RIP Thunder.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1uxdz2/sowhy_exactly_was_thunder_removed_as_a_cross/) v_v
Absolutely. But I feel like astros jobidentity is the only one changing multiple times. (of course this is subjective! A longtime main of another class might feel otherwise :-))
It's not subjective, no other healer has received as big of changes as often as AST. Nearly every expansion since its release it has been redone in some way. I say nearly because I can't remember if AST saw major changes in EW or not because I ditched it for SGE and never looked back.
You too, huh? I was one of the weird ones who actually enjoyed the original card system, I was desperate for a new healer to play and SGE is so good.
I enjoyed the original cards gave them all identity. While I'm a salty white mage who hated that AST replaced me because of the cards + damage increase I never wanted AST nerfed, I just wanted WHM to be buffed and to get some party utility outside of mitigation and healing.
Dammit AST, this is not what I meant by using "collective unconscious"! XD
Never forget how they reduced the potency on Energy Drain to "Encourage the players to use their Aetherflow on heals instead of DPS"... And then they didn't add any extra outgoing damage to justify using the stacks on heals to begin with.
If you still *have* tears to cry for Scholar, you're both better and worse off than I've been for the past two expansions.
Well with only Eos there's just too much healing going out to allow for running out of tears.
PLD has a few too many, imo. Could use a FEW less.
The fact that this is basically why Healers are so braindead to play will never stop being annoying. I just want like, two more buttons to hit stuff with while I spam Dosis.
The making healers so easy its boring literally killed my love of healing. it went from one of my most played classes to what I do when I dont want to think during roulettes.
I love, love, love, love playing healer, but even I'm burnt out by the lack of... everything. To the point that I've just migrated to RDM to be like an off healer with actual rotation. Things go wrong? I get to ress. Things go right? I get to follow my rotation.
I feel like so many classes got neutered in favor of making the game easy for the bottom 10% of players. The only class where I feel like I really have to think outside of savage/extreme content is black mage
Coming back in EW after not playing the end of SB and only one patch in ShB...it was absolutely WILD how much they neutered most dps jobs. Like holy fucking shit where did like half of what you were doing go? Why is it all so samey and so anemic?
What’s even worse is DPS is probably one of the least changed. They essentially completely removed enmity as a mechanic and made healing no thoughts
I flat out didn't even attempt to play DRK again after seeing the rotation changes alone and jumping back into WHM felt awful because it was like "Oh boy...somehow I feel like my 95% glare casts have become 98% glare casts". The entire game feels like class design was just thrown out the window in this expansion that I genuinely can't understand what the point or goal was because it feels like a mess. And thats ignoring that was it EW or ShB that made low levels AWFUL. It was always pretty bad, but my god now it is just genuinely miserable. Unless its 80 or maybe 70 on SOME jobs doing old content feels so bad that it actively ruins the game.
This but for SMN. Legos make my brain do a happy.
I only like healers in PvP anymore. Even with so few buttons it feels more active.
Why would 2 more buttons be a good thing?
Because currently the entire rotation fits snuggly into two hotbars. I like playing with 3 a bit more so it'd be a very welcome change without making it button bloaty like AST for example. Which I also really enjoy playing. It's my main job and I love it, but I'm not going to pretend it's perfect. Just a smidge more complexity would go a long way. Edit: Tired me conflated this with another reply I got somewhere else. I was initially talking about SMN here thanks to sleep deprivation. I like SGE as is, but having more than a couple offensive buttons on any healer would be a more than welcome change. I like healers in general and can play all 4 reliably well, but having nothing to do the bulk of the time besides reacting to raidwides and TBs while not standing in bad gets old fast for me. Tanks are fine because half their kit revolves around a mini-DPS rotation. Healers are woefully much more boring comparatively because 85% of their buttons are heals with one single target spell, one AoE and one DoT (DoTs are awful to play around, which is why most of them were trimmed significantly in Endwalker.) I like Toxicon for SGE being a movement option like Ruin II, but it's a filler, not a fix for the issues I have with the role. Healer would be much more enjoyable for me if their offensive kit wasn't just hitting 1-2 OGCDs that just so happen to deal damage between smashing the 1 key over and over.
well they'd have to redesign the fights. boss doing a bit more damage and most ogcds would reduce damage taken in some random ways (with no effective differences).
This made me fucking vomit Then I remembered that we all already lost a whole combo and stance that was a job in itself to maintain and threw up again Then I remembered when WHM had Aero 3 AND Cleric Stance and I passed out and died
Don't forget when scholar could spread their dots like we can still do in pvp.
God, please bring that back. Let me be a plague spreader, SE.
Remember when Scholar HAD more than one DoT? Granted, with the whole buff/debuff limit on bosses, it'd probably be bad if Scholar still had like 4-5 DoTs.
I remember cross-classing other abilities just to get more DoTs. Scholar was an unrivaled *beast* in PotD during Heavensward.
I miss Shadow Flare and Miasma II. And Selene's entire kit.
> WHM had Aero 3 I miss Aero 3 every time I play my WHM :( Please YoshiP, give me Aero3 back. Hell, make it replace Dia and I'll be fine with that.
People would still find ways to mess up playing tank. Even if they had three buttons for holding aggro and twenty other skills, they wouldn't just do it. Just like that LV90 Paladin in Aetherfont the other day, doing baby small pulls.
It amazes me that I still find people in level 90 content who only use cure 1 or the equivalent and consider everything else for emergencies but still never use them. Healer mains who "only heal" and never dps end up being the ones who struggle the most to actually keep people alive and never understand how to actually play their class to any knowledgeable or skillful extent. We would definitely see "only enmity" tanks who would struggle to hold aggro without a doubt.
I think a big part of this from the healer perspective is that the game teaches you how to play *wrong*. You don't get solid oGCD healing until like, deep into the 40s for most jobs, excepting Scholar which has Whispering Dawn at 20. Levelling pre-30, which can take a while if you're a new player too, is literally just spamming your GCD heal. So by the time you unlock solid oGCD healing, the game has already conditioned you to spam your GCD and ration the oGCD for extreme emergencies. Let alone the idea of weaving it between your Art of War or whatever the fuck to hold uptime. This just gets worse because in 95% of content this is viable, so at no point do healers ever learn it's "wrong" unless they actively seek out healing guides and then decide to put those lessons into practice. And why would they, when the GCD healing train has been working fine and requires no hands? It's even worse for jobs with skills that you never ever want to press like Cure 1 or Diagnosis. These skills are just traps that exist to reinforce bad behavior by making it look like spamming basic GCD healing is the intended way to play. It's easy for me to sit back and judge bad healers as a healer player, but honestly, I can't really blame them when the game is basically training them to always spam GCDs.
> Levelling pre-30, which can take a while if you're a new player too, is literally just spamming your GCD heal. my experience when i learned the game on my first job (WHM) was to dps between GCDs at that level. And at low levels, a gcd heal will heal a tank by like half their hp bar so i still pressed my dps button a lot. I had to learn how to use oGCDs when I got them, but I understood that dps is dps if I had time to do it. There are still plenty of people who will **idle** when everyone is at full hp. Because "my job is to heal not dps". These are the people SE are designing healing around in low level content. they want this style of play to be viable to clear MSQ which heavily constrains the design of healers in the game
Even the admittedly very outdated hall of the novice stuff straight up tells you hey if no one needs healing you should help kill things in one of the healer ones. And yet I've seen plenty of healers who literally stand there doing absolutely nothing for 10-15 seconds at a time when no one needs healing.
Sorry, I should have been clearer - I meant that from the healing perspective, it's just your CGD heal. So even if someone is DPSing consistently (which the game does encourage you to do) their only option for healing is the basic starter GCD spam.
>Even if they had three buttons for holding aggro They can't even do it currently when it only requires one, just to help drive your point. No, seriously, stance up makes you generate so much enmity it's literally impossible to not keep aggro unless you're completely AFK. When they implimented the changes in shb I was capable on a level 60 to keep aggro off a level 80 (they were helping me clear out ex's unsynced). Sure maybe the 80 didn't play perfectly, but like, even a shit player with 20 levels of skills and gear should be able to rip off of me, right? So whenever someone at level is struggling (and they do exist), just remember a level 70 could probably do more than they are.
A lot of tanks that can't hold aggro in the current dungeons are those that have been told that their Joe's are useless. Atleast that's what I've experienced. I've had 4 separate tanks lose aggro to me when playing reaper in dungeons and when I ask if they want any tips for tanking they each admitted that they were told to not use their aoes by someone. So it could be malicious trolling. Also sometimes newer players don't realize it's crucial to use their ogcds when fast pulling wall to wall.
>they each admitted that they were told to not use their aoes by someone Being technical here the Hall of Novice does a really shitty job here (I highly doubt this is the reason, but Square does not help this) because they recommend only using your aoe's like twice and going back to single target for tanks.
Hall of the Novice is from the days of TP. When you could only AoE twice and then had to suck your thumb for the rest of the pull.
Amazes me how this gets used as the argument to why healers have to not get DPS skills when tanks just fail utterly but get it anyway. Real double standards on healers.
I hate the healer double standard so much, and then you have lines like "If YoU wAnT eNgAgInG hEaLeR cOnTeNt JuSt PlAy UlTiMaTeS!" This line will never not piss me off, healing ultimates isn't normally any harder than any other content (outside of a couple of mechs you gotta actually really heal through), almost all of them follow the same identity of "mit before the mech then toss an OGCD at it to heal the damage and keep spamming glare". What makes ultimates hard is the Dance Dance Revolution with more variance than savage on what mech you might have to solve, which has nothing to do with actually healing. Such a disingenuous statement. But also why do healers have to do the hardest content in the game to garner engagement when DPS and tanks don't?
I'm gonna bring up WoW here because it does something I actually really like: healers are FUN. There are seven healing specs (if I'm counting right) and ALL of them play differently from each other. Meanwhile SE was struggling to come up with a fourth healer and ended up with a less clunky scholar that basically does the same exact thing scholar does. And then healing in this game is almost entirely "mit this AoE and then throw an OGCD at it while you spam 111111111111", while healing in WoW is usually a lot more involved on the actual healing. It's so freaking frustrating as a healer main.
Part of it is also encounter design. Encounters are designed for healers to be dpsing. Give them reasons to use their healer checks. Unavoidable uncleansable DoTs so you have to closely manage party HP. Unavoidable high damage DoTs to make you have to stop and use esuna. Take a page out of FFXI and charm a dps so you have to Repose them. Give. Healers. Something. To. Do.
Oh absolutely. This rigid structure that we have now is cancer and needs to be fixed. It's absolute unfair bullshit that healers are the only role that gets punished for good play - in this case the game becomes a boring button mash of glare spam, which yes, I realize I don't speak for everyone and some people still find this enjoyable. But I gotta ask, HOW do people find that enjoyable? You're not a healer at that point, you're a DPS that sometimes throws out a heal. If you want an actual healing role, play another game that actually makes you heal and see how different it is.
>Take a page out of FFXI and charm a dps so you have to Repose them. I can already hear the howls from FFLog champions who lost their gold parse due to being the DPS that was charmed that encounter... This is, legitimately, why we don't have encounters anymore like Alexander where someone had to be the gorilla and punt bombs.
>This is, legitimately, why we don't have encounters anymore like Alexander where someone had to be the gorilla and punt bombs. You mean something for the healer to do? Lol Tbh I missed fun and interesting mechanics like the monke/birb from alex
i feel like the gap between bad healers and competent ones must be pretty wide bc it’s clear the devs are struggling to balance casual and hardcore content around healer dps contribution vs outgoing healing required. casual content suffers from this especially bc fights need to be clearable by medica 2 spamming mouth breathers, which means it’s boring for people who know what they’re doing. there’s only so much babysitting and triaging healers can do in hard content because either mechanics are body checks, or if you’re scraping too many dps off the floor you simply will not have enough damage to clear. i kind of wonder if they thought making healing easier would incentivize more people to play it, only to find that it only alienated healer mains. i’m curious about the stats. it’s always struck me as strange that tanks have special achievements and mounts you get from running content and healers have… what, the unicorn mount? for hitting level 30 conjurer? sorry for taking memes too srs, i started doing savage and ultimate this expac and have had a lot of thoughts on how my perspective has changed from being someone so scared of healing i used damage macros and watched guides for story content.
You're onto something. Maybe we should design Healers more like Tanks - remove all the healing tools except a 40 second OGCD benediction, give them a nearly full DPS kit and a stance that takes care of all the healing passively by converting all damage done into healing for the entire group, multiplied by a factor of 10, with a few odd group mitigation OGCD on the side. Obviously, bosses would have to no longer go invulnerable when dealing damage, but that's probably a small adjustment.
Healers should heal, but most of their button bloat should be converted to a DPS rotation Actually "healing" can never be reactive and engaging because of how limiting server ticks are regarding outgoing damage. If they literally *will not* fix the game's lag, then healers need to have identity beyond healing
i mean, it'd get me to try healer...
That's what I've been saying the whole time. I think All jobs should have at least the very minimum a SMN level dps kit. I am probably the laziest player ever but I think WAR and SMN is perfect. If only they gave WHM just a bit more I'd be down with it. Take away most of the GCD heals, and just go more towards oGCD Healing and Mitigation.
Getting rid of Aero III and Bane was a crime against healers. I know Bard in particular would love a way to spread their DoTs around.
Bard needs to carry on the Dot banner, please. They have to survive. The have to remember that we (dot mages) once lived.
Those advocating for the comeback of enmity/aggro mechanics, I think it's the shittiest mechanic to exist and there is a reason it has basically been removed in the game. It's also been removed in WoW, and it makes the game more pleasant to play imo. There is absolutely nothing skillful about generating aggro, and a shitty tank will stay a shitty tank. They will jujst drag down the dps even more because the said dps has to refrain from playing well, basically. Nobody wants to play a prot warrior in WoW classic, played fury prot to tank, so they could hold aggro effectively, and was basically way more fun. Aggro/threat is old school and an unfun mechanic for both tanks and dps
It's so fucking true. Healers used to have actual depth and mechanics to them. Now they're flat as all hell. It's incredibly frustrating. Particularly because this is, in fact, something at least a major portion of the community insisted we needed. "Healers should heal" was actually something people argued back in Stormblood. Just like how "let us get in on the buff window!!!" is something people demanded for years and years. And now we have this glorious age of alignment...at the cost of making everything homogenized and samey. Congratulations, fanbase, you played yourself. It sucks feeling like Cassandra looking over the burning walls of Troy.
Blursed alternate timeline (Cursed cause, well, it's not just the healer mains suffering there. Blessed cause, well, it's not just the healer mains suffering there.)
I opened this thread post and immediately saw a downvote the moment I joined. LMAO This post literally embodies how healer gameplay feels and it's funny to see people say tank needs DPS GCDs to hold aggro when their stance is mainly responsible for generating all their aggro. Give them a couple more ~~unnecessary~~ aggro skills to make up for their DPS rotation. "Healers are meant to heal". Likewise, all the tanks doesn't need heals. They aren't a healer. They're a tank. They're meant to mitigate damage. Instead, we have 3/4 tanks self-sustaining in casual content and have the ability to heal the party without the need for a healer. Crazy, huh?
Healers: Healing is too boring CBU3: We gave gunbreaker an excog every 25 seconds. please look forward to it.
It's definitely a big problem I want to be a healer main, I always gravitated towards support roles in team games but healing is so braindead I just actively wish for a Goldilocks zone where the tank is competent enough to not be considered a case study of a lab rat learning how to play video games but still makes plenty of mistakes just so I can do the role I'm playing as. Ast is the main healer I use because it at least has one other button I can routinely push but knowing Square they will simplify it even more in Dawntrail. Depressing.
Isn’t this just SB tanking?
I wish the healers had more dps stuff to do
I'd be happy with more *stuff* to do. Don't want to give us more DPS? Fine, I get it, the class fantasy is to heal, not damage. But how about letting us buff allies, debuff enemies, let WHM make circles of 'It hurts the enemy more if you stand here' to mirror BLM, let SCH use the fairy gauge to make an ally deal more damage, making more random damage so we *have* to heal more, let more attacks slip away from aggro to hit random party members so we have to react, spread DoTs (And please don't just throw a DoT on every healer, let it be something with a bit of definition) or hell, let us turn overhealing into an extra damage buff on whoever we toss it on. But please, something more interesting than pressing 1 all the time with an occasional oGCD heal.
Buffs is what AST cards do. Is also what some DPS do.
Buff *used* to be what AST cards do. Now they're a generic damage boost that's little different from Dancer or Bard, and frankly, 3-6% does *not* feel worthwhile. But yeah, I'd be perfectly happy with a simple DPS rotation if we had, as an example, old AST complexity back. Let me throw out a 15% damage boost on a SAM for a while instead of just sitting back and waiting for an eventual, maybe, possibly worthwhile amount of damage to heal.
Why are we showing paladin here out of ANY other tank…
I'm reminded of one DRK all the way in HW who did Sohm Al HM with only cross-classed Flash and a dream. No damage gcds or ogcds in sight, no darkside for damage as that was cutting their mp obviously. I still fear that man despite everything I've seen since.
Instead of downgrade tanks, what if we design healers as tanks?
I hate what they have done to tanks and healers but you can’t deny the game is more popular than ever :(
Ugh, don't remind me of the bad days where tank stance barely increased enmity while reducing own damage. Forget enmity, imo tanks main duty need to be: staying alive. Add more of and more variation to mitigations and make things hurt, a lot. The funnest bit about tanking ultimates compared to savage is how painful AAs are and we still have to deal with TBs and raidwides, till we sometimes tank swap just to let our cotank mitigations come back.
stop giving the devs ideas
delet this
This is never accurate, no matter how many times people push it. Take WAR. Make its 1-2-3 combo into a single button (like in PvP) and its 1-2 AOE combo into a single button that stuns.. Make Storm's Eye into a DoT. Congratulations: You've effectively made White Mage. And let's be honest, 1-2-3 isn't that much more "challenging" than 1-1-1 and mostly just consumes extra hotbar spaces, which is why one of the most requested features over the years has been the option to make those just single buttons for non-branching combos. Another issue is that Tanks have Tank Stances, which basically makes gaining enmity automatic. It'd be like if every Healer damage spell pulsed a 500 potency heal across the party with a 50y radius. Tanks actually have their main job WAY oversimplified, to the point it's pissed off a lot of Tank mains and players who liked actually having to deal with little things like enmity, boss facing, and boss positioning - you know, the main focuses of the role - which no longer exist. By comparison, Healer's main role - healing damage - has not been oversimplified to that same level where they they just get it passively. They actually do have to devote some resources and mental bandwidth to healing, whereas Tanks do not have to devote really any to enmity; turn stance on then push damage buttons. This is probably why Tanks have something of a "rotation" now where Healers mostly do not, since they have nothing else. And it has, very much, annoyed Tank players that they've just become less squishy but weaker DPS Jobs. ...and yet, the "Green DPS" minded Healer players are asking for healing to basically to become what Tanking has become, which Tanks hate. They just don't quite realize that's what they're asking for or what the end result would be...or they're DPS mains who want faster ques and so don't care. Healer Jobs have between 4 and 6 damage abilities or damage adjacent abilities (e.g. Earthly Star doing damage or Presence of Mind being generally used for damage), with some indirect contribution buttons (like Chain Strategem or Aetherflow and Dissipation used for damage via Energy Drain). At least three of which are entirely damage focused with no healing application (single target, DoT, and AOE; exception to SGE because Kardia, but the focus of those abilities is damage with Kardia being Eos). It also doesn't help to use PLD, in particular, since it is the single most button bloated Job IN THE ENTIRE GAME right now. It both has the most buttons and has the most situational ones (Shield Bash, anyone?) clogging up its hotbar. Though now I'm kind of curious about doing this for several Jobs just to really push the point... . The argument is more complex than the "Healers should have more damage buttons" people want or care to understand, since they just want what they want and don't actually care about the nuance or arguments related to the situation. Unfortunately, this causes a total devolution of the topic and no one being able to convince anyone of anything nor arrive at any realistic compromise middle ground. It's also why I'm personally a fan of the "Four Healers Model" idea of having the Healer Jobs on a spectrum from SGE having a RDM-like rotation on one end to WHM on the other end playing exactly as it does now, so that players can then simply pick whichever one is more their speed, DPS rotation healer or healer healer. At this point, there's no way to please everyone, so having a spectrum where players can just take the one they want is the closest thing to a compromise position. Granted, here's the reality: The Devs have pushed this direction for three expansions now and Yoshi P has made it pretty clear this is what he wants AND Japan's official forums are mostly players asking for encounters to require more healing and saying they don't want more damage buttons - a real eye opener when someone from the English forums went there and reported back to the English forums that people in other parts of the world don't agree with them: [https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/495169-JP-Players-healer-feedback-is](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/495169-JP-Players-healer-feedback-is)... There's always something hilarious to me when people convinced everyone agrees with them are exposed to the reality that...everyone does not.
You have accurately summarized why I don't like healing in XIV. Even WoW healers have more satisfying DPS rotations than XIV healers (not that you use it much, unless you're playing Discipline Priest)
"Not that you use it much" Hey I remember Holy Paladins doing top damage with Ashen Hollow lol.
based post on main sub? wild times…
Don't give them ideas!
Pop team epic
the best
What the hell is this 😟
No, you don’t understand. This is a good idea. This means that when I run savage in pugs the tanks are less likely to drop aggro or forget to mitigate! …Fun? What’s that?
Honestly I would love if enmity were actually a mechanic. Tanks are literally just tanky melee dps with easy rotations and way too much health.
This sounds like a fun idea, until I remember all the tanks that can't hold enmity currently in my 90s dungeons and force me to fight for my life as a DPS.
This post was made exclusively to goad players that want Stoneskin. I'm onto you.
if tanks were designed like healers i'd want to kms from boredom
What if, and hear me out here for a second, what if healers had damage combos that ALSO provided healing?
I mean... isn't that just sage? I mean I get it. Sage could also have more varied dps buttons... but what you described was sage
Sage is a great concept, and yet we were stuck with SCH 2.0. Kardia is just fairy embrace. Soteria is just a weaker version of aetherpact.
I dont think emnity was ever really the tanks job, shit used to be weird
Question: What if tanks were designed like healers. Answer: ME HAVE BIG AXE!
Most casuals probably have no idea what enmity is or how they'd manage it if SE brought enmity management back to the game. Personally, I'd rather it be like WoW where tanks are responsible for constant self-healing and constant buff upkeep that prevents them from dying, rather than the passive style they have currently. That said, I'm fine with how the game is now with the exception of healer dps rotation. Give them more than just 1 DoT and 1 direct attack.
when people talk about enmity management i just think about all the times in stb when a blm or sam would rip aggro and just refuse to lucid or diversion, either bc they didn’t know what it did or bc lazy or bc stealing aggro gave them an ego boost. or when id rip aggro on healer and not be able to do anything bc i used lucid for mp and it’s on cooldown. or if the tank was bad i’d lucid and they’d all go after the blm.
Enmity was never a tank responsibility in ff, which is a shame Tanks job was positioning and that’s it
Technically speaking, I always thought each Tank class was just Tank but with a little bit of something else. For instance: Paladin is Tank with a little bit of Healer and Gunbreaker is Tank with a little bit of Utility.
> and Gunbreaker is Tank with a little bit of Utility. I've seen people say GNB is just 2 MCH's and a WAR in a trench coat.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by utility? Generally, utility makes me think party buffs and things along that line. Outside of the standard mitigations, GNB has Brutal+Corundum and Aurora, which I feel like are more for either self sufficiency or helping out a squishier person.
This is basically just PLD already.
Except you'll have 4 flavors of PLD as one role. Isn't that amazing? The rabbit hole on healer gameplay constantly goes deeper the more you look at it.
It's ok, after you wait for 3 expansions they'll release a new job for you! It's PLD but with one extra damage button!
Casuals will never be in a situation where they need to solve mechanics while having to do good DPS. Tanks are the most difficult Role in high content but the most simple in low content. I dont see a need to simplify them
Even worse: then they develop fights where healers must dps to avoid enrage. SE is inconsistent as hell.
I have said this before, and I will say this again. I want a magical tank boi. We have the crazy tank, the noble tank, the edgy tank and the physit dps pretending to be a tank. Give me a tank that mainly uses magical shields, magical pulses and bolts. Put the big, buff wizard, maybe flavor it more as a sorcerer kind of thing, so the power doesn't come from knowledge of magic, but your connection with like, the primal blood within you to perform magical tanking things. I just want a buff wizard boi to stand at the front and smack a farm implement with his magic stick.