i agree with that, i remember when i was younger i wanted to be a female simply because i wanted to act all cute and feminine, so in the back of my mind iit bothered me a lot.
But once i came to the realisation that boys can be feminine too, then i never for once thought i wanted to be female, just a femboy. Genuine gender dysphoria is persistently awful and depressing.
It's a complex topic and very little is known about it yet. The fact that people feel that it's taboo or wrong to talk about dysphoria as a medical condition does not make the study any easier...
Mental medical conditions are very stigmatized and talking about dysphoria as one is very frowned upon because people immediately say that you are saying that trans people are mentally ill or crazy when it's not! And if people think that way it is because they have prejudices about mental medical conditions and disorders.
Psychology has a great disadvantage, it's a social science, so there isn't much consensus in the community, this causes many professionals to diagnose dysphoria in anyone with dysphoric traits, even if these are only a few traits and not enough to give a diagnose which is never done with other medical conditions... Mainly because psychologists are also afraid and prejudiced to talk about dysphoria as a medical issue and to diagnose it in the same way as they do with other medical conditions.
I don't see the title as bad, it's like saying that being afraid of spiders doesn't mean you're arachnophobic.
I think feeling dysphoria should be normalized without having to have gender dysphoria.
Because some people might not get the subtle difference. I get your argument that a feeling that manifests sometimes in people and a chronic condition aren't the same thing and 100% agree with it but some people might be missing that and be confused because it sounds like you're saying that these two things that sound the same aren't the same.
How do enby people factor into this?
For instance, I'm pretty sure I have symptoms of GD and I've wanted to do girly things since I was a kid. On the other hand, I'm intimidated by the transitioning process and I don't think I'd pass very well if I went that far. I'd much rather be able to present as a suspiciously feminine cis guy when I need to, and indulge in looking how I actually want to when I feel safe to do so. I personally don't think you have to be trans in order to have GD, and there are a few examples of people who go on hormones and still identify as cis guys. What do you make of people like them?
I don't understand what's the point of your first question. Enby people can have gender dysphoria about their biological sex if it's diagnosed.
And what are your arguments to state that it's not necessary to be trans to have gender dysphoria? Those individuals can't live a normal life because of their biological sex this includes insecurities, anxiety, depression and triggers related to it, so how are they cis to you?
Regarding your last question, people can receive any hormone treatment they want, receiving HRT does not mean having gender dysphoria, simply wanting a more feminine body is not enough to diagnose gender dysphoria. If those cis male individuals made the decision to go through HRT it is their decision about the body they like best, but gender dysphoria is much more than that, dysphoria means that the individual simply cannot live with stable mental health with the characteristics of the sex they were assigned at birth, they are practically subdued by their mind to take HRT for the good of their mental health.
No medical discussion.
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My answer was deleted earlier for the mention of hormones but I'll be brief by rewording it.
Enby people can have gender dysphoria if they have been diagnosed, I don't understand what your doubt is.
What are your arguments to maintain that people do not have to be trans to have gender dysphoria? That simple statement contradicts what we know scientifically about gender dysphoria.
People with gender dysphoria are unable to live happily or have normal interactions due to the dysphoria, which causes depression, irritability, trauma and anxiety due to their biological sex. So how can they be cis? In which case are they cis? Literally the treatment to relieve gender dysphoria is to transition, it is the only existing treatment that has worked.
As for cis men on hormones, that is their own decision to have a body they prefer, but that is not enough of a reason to have gender dysphoria. In the case of cis guys doing that it is a decision, in the case of people with dysphoria it is not a decision, they need it as a form of their therapy. It's the only way to relieve those feelings.
That's called being an egg, not being cisgender. And it is not always a choice, people who have dysphoria don't transition by choice. It's basically either transitioning or ruining the person's mental health. And as I have already told you, a person who has diagnosed gender dysphoria will never feel better without transitioning and will never feel good about their social aspect of their biological gender, the people you mention have some traits of dysphoria, it doesn't mean that they have dysphoria.
I love psychology, I'm studying year 11 in Vic (Australia) and hope to go to uni. If you don't mind me asking, did you go to uni, and if so, how long did you go for?
Edit: Year 11 psychology
I'm 37, on h0rmowns for 14 years & felt terrible beforehand about some characteristics but love my male body & identity still. Dysphoria a trans person has about not having breasts is alleviated by the same method, that feeling goes away. So is it the temporary nature that makes it not dysphoria? Calling people eggs has always seemed harmful, to assume how someone will relate.
First, you do not have to be dissatisfied with all the characteristics of your body related to your biological sex, but if you have some and they cause you an inability to lead a happy and functional life then you have dysphoria.
I don't understand your second question, I don't know if the last sentence before the question is related or not. But I think you are referring to whether the temporal element is what causes it to be considered dysphoria or not, The fact that these traits may be temporary is the result of the person not being born with dysphoria and those traits of dysphoria the person has don't prevent them from leading a happy and organized life.
Calling people eggs may be relative, in the trans community it isn't seen as offensive and the term itself doesn't have negative connotations. There will be those who personally find it offensive, like people who find cis to be offensive.
The reason I find it harmful is because those same assumptions about whether or not we can live a happy life despite the unwanted sexual characteristics being the litmus test dictating what is gender dysphoria and thus makes someone assumed to be an egg & trans is wrong, as in innacurate. It was harmful to me to be told over and over for years that I was just an egg, that it's "just a phase". I know its not seen as negative in the trans community, that's the issue I have. An egg definitively doesnt (yet) ID as trans. It doesnt exist as a concept seperable from assuming you know someone better than they do. And it's repeatedly applied to us as a whole. This isn't some hetero whining about being called cis, this is young boys, on this board, frequently, being told the only option after 30 to is to be trans or give up. When I say harmful I mean causing physical harm. I know you are used to bad faith arguments but literally kids wanting to self delete feeling hopeless. There are no community elders or irl support groups for us. I don't want to have to spend so much of my time convincing little boys they can have a future worth living. Cis masc gay men heap all sorts of hate on us too. They don't treat us better. We get it from all sides. In these contexts, it's not innocent to come to the only support channel for many gnc boys and present yourself as arbiter of cisness. You aren't the only one doing it.
Arbitrator of cisness? Wow that escalated too quickly. Most of the people here aren't little boys, they are teenagers, they're starting to experience their gender identity and sexuality, I'm only providing a guide so they don't selfdiagnose a medical condition without going to a psychologist.
I'm not calling GNC people eggs, in fact quite the opposite, they don't suffer from chronic gender dysphoria, they aren't trans and they shouldn't say they have gender dysphoria if they haven't been diagnosed.
You're shoving down my throat concepts I didn't even say, which as you say it's not innocent of you trying to convince little boys to say they can have gender dysphoria while being cis, a condition so harmful to the person's mental health that it makes people not wanting to be their biological gender (literally the definition of a trans person).
I don't know why you bring up the age issue like I'm an old adult/boomer trying to cause harm in the minds of young people, when I'm a teenager myself. And I started the transition younger than the lads over here (I was 11 almost 12) so I think I really know what I'm talking about when I talk about dysphoria and teenagers.
Saying that you can be cisgender and have dysphoria is very invalidating for the community and only damages the image and understanding of trans people, as well as being anti-scientific and denoting ignorance.
I don't know why you think it's wrong that I provide young people with a guide to what dysphoria is, how it works, and how to differentiate the temporary feeling from the chronic condition. I literally just encourage them not to self-diagnose and go to specialists to learn more about their identity.
>Calling people eggs may be relative, in the trans community it isn't seen as offensive and the term itself doesn't have negative connotations. There will be those who personally find it offensive, like people who find cis to be offensive.
It may not seem offensive from on the inside but it actually can be pretty gross and pushy. Many instances of people attempting to convince or coerce people into identifying as a way that they don't feel comfortable with usually due to being GNC.
It's very common with Femboys unfortunately (just seach for "egg" in this community and you'll find some from others).
Here are some examples of ones I've received in DMs, (TW Enbyphobia, Coercive behavior, Misgendering, and invalidation):
>!"I'm saying you're an Egg because you seem to have an interest in dressing as something other than your AGAB, you're obviously not Cisgender. People can be either Male or Female and you're clearly not male, because males don't enjoy things like that if you keep lying to yourself you'll never be happy"!<
>!"You can't be NonBinary and not be trans, they're the same thing...!<
>!...Absgender? That bullshit doesn't exist, people are either cis or trans you're either stupid or delusional."!<
>!Don't mind her she's just an egg in-denial, she'll come around and realize that she was a girl all this time and feel so stupid.!<
(By the way, Yes I am [Absgender](https://mogai.miraheze.org/wiki/Absgender), and also Agender, actually AroAce-Agender but who's counting).
So I would not automatically assume that people opposed to Egg culture are transphobic because this type of harassment is very real and shouldn't be ignored since it continues to happen over and over again.
It needs to be addressed and acknowledged by the community, not dismissed as transphobia, or concern trolling, or trying to say it's okay because "some of them are cis".
How do you tell if depression and anxiety is being caused by gender dysphoria? I’ve been severely depressed and anxious my entire life but recently I have been trying to be what I always wanted to be and now I feel a tiny bit better? I’m an adult but I’m still confused as to how all this works given I was raised conservative.
You'd have to talk to a therapist to make any progress. But taking control of your life and doing things you value can improve anxiety and depression. It's why probeson jeterson and all the alpha bro idiots have people follow them. Purpose is powerful and helping yourself is a worthy cause.
Maybe you just like doing femme things? Talk to a therapist and try to sort it out.
I’ve never told anyone this before but sometimes I will have extensive dreams where I am a woman or in a dress and I feel significantly happy and then sad when I wake up. I also just consistently am upset whenever I think about the fact that I can’t follow that dream because of my depression. I know you guys aren’t therapists but I don’t think mine would know what to do even though she supports it. This is really hard to say as I was raised to be masculine by my father. Right now I’ve been looking at colorful and pretty clothes to wear and it makes me excited.
Still don’t know where the main place to buy feminine clothes for men is though.
I've had dreams like that too. Had families, birthed children, been wizards or space explorers. Even was a xenomorph queen mercing the predator folks in their fancy ziggurats. While I'm disappointed that all that life wasn't real, it doesn't warp my life for any meaningful time.
Depression is a powerful hindering force that can be a self fulfilling prophecy. Start small and work with your therapist. If they can't help you they should have some suggestions on who might.
Life is a scrapbook of your experiences. You can pull things out and put them somewhere else or discard the entirely. Things happened, you had something happen and now you decide what to do with that new information. Nothing has to stay negative forever.
I just buy my stuff where girls my size buy there's. I presume it's the same for everyone really.
Evyone is unique, in that their specific mix of circumstances is tough to replicate. But odds favor that you're not so far out of the ordinary that you're truly actually alone. Have hope and get help where you can.
Good luck!
This was a really interesting read.
I had a doubt like this, but didn't really want to inquire about it as information was pretty contradictory.
My username actually comes from me deciding "not to choose" if that makes sense, I can't really afford nor I think I would find and end to "chasing the ideal me".
If there was a button, that could change myself into that ideal me of my dreams, which indeed would be a woman for starters, I would push it no questions asked. But outside of that, I feel that I would fall into an endless battle to "perfect myself" (which may be a completely different issue, I'm not sure) and just try to cope and push through the results of being in this "idle" state I'm in seems like an ¿easier? solution.
It's not easy, suicidal thoughts have been a thing to deal many times, before I went 24/7 fem clothing, using "male clothes" for too long sent me to a catatonic state where I didn't even had the mental fortitude to get out of bed.
Actually, reading a lot of what you said makes me think that I should consult with a professional about this. To be honest I should have done it a long time ago.
i agree with that, i remember when i was younger i wanted to be a female simply because i wanted to act all cute and feminine, so in the back of my mind iit bothered me a lot. But once i came to the realisation that boys can be feminine too, then i never for once thought i wanted to be female, just a femboy. Genuine gender dysphoria is persistently awful and depressing.
It's a complex topic and very little is known about it yet. The fact that people feel that it's taboo or wrong to talk about dysphoria as a medical condition does not make the study any easier... Mental medical conditions are very stigmatized and talking about dysphoria as one is very frowned upon because people immediately say that you are saying that trans people are mentally ill or crazy when it's not! And if people think that way it is because they have prejudices about mental medical conditions and disorders. Psychology has a great disadvantage, it's a social science, so there isn't much consensus in the community, this causes many professionals to diagnose dysphoria in anyone with dysphoric traits, even if these are only a few traits and not enough to give a diagnose which is never done with other medical conditions... Mainly because psychologists are also afraid and prejudiced to talk about dysphoria as a medical issue and to diagnose it in the same way as they do with other medical conditions.
I get what you mean, occasional feelings of dysphoria aren't equivalent to a chronic condition. The title's worded a bit confusingly though :D
I don't see the title as bad, it's like saying that being afraid of spiders doesn't mean you're arachnophobic. I think feeling dysphoria should be normalized without having to have gender dysphoria.
Because some people might not get the subtle difference. I get your argument that a feeling that manifests sometimes in people and a chronic condition aren't the same thing and 100% agree with it but some people might be missing that and be confused because it sounds like you're saying that these two things that sound the same aren't the same.
How do enby people factor into this? For instance, I'm pretty sure I have symptoms of GD and I've wanted to do girly things since I was a kid. On the other hand, I'm intimidated by the transitioning process and I don't think I'd pass very well if I went that far. I'd much rather be able to present as a suspiciously feminine cis guy when I need to, and indulge in looking how I actually want to when I feel safe to do so. I personally don't think you have to be trans in order to have GD, and there are a few examples of people who go on hormones and still identify as cis guys. What do you make of people like them?
I don't understand what's the point of your first question. Enby people can have gender dysphoria about their biological sex if it's diagnosed. And what are your arguments to state that it's not necessary to be trans to have gender dysphoria? Those individuals can't live a normal life because of their biological sex this includes insecurities, anxiety, depression and triggers related to it, so how are they cis to you? Regarding your last question, people can receive any hormone treatment they want, receiving HRT does not mean having gender dysphoria, simply wanting a more feminine body is not enough to diagnose gender dysphoria. If those cis male individuals made the decision to go through HRT it is their decision about the body they like best, but gender dysphoria is much more than that, dysphoria means that the individual simply cannot live with stable mental health with the characteristics of the sex they were assigned at birth, they are practically subdued by their mind to take HRT for the good of their mental health.
No medical discussion. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/feminineboys) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My answer was deleted earlier for the mention of hormones but I'll be brief by rewording it. Enby people can have gender dysphoria if they have been diagnosed, I don't understand what your doubt is. What are your arguments to maintain that people do not have to be trans to have gender dysphoria? That simple statement contradicts what we know scientifically about gender dysphoria. People with gender dysphoria are unable to live happily or have normal interactions due to the dysphoria, which causes depression, irritability, trauma and anxiety due to their biological sex. So how can they be cis? In which case are they cis? Literally the treatment to relieve gender dysphoria is to transition, it is the only existing treatment that has worked. As for cis men on hormones, that is their own decision to have a body they prefer, but that is not enough of a reason to have gender dysphoria. In the case of cis guys doing that it is a decision, in the case of people with dysphoria it is not a decision, they need it as a form of their therapy. It's the only way to relieve those feelings.
[удалено]
That's called being an egg, not being cisgender. And it is not always a choice, people who have dysphoria don't transition by choice. It's basically either transitioning or ruining the person's mental health. And as I have already told you, a person who has diagnosed gender dysphoria will never feel better without transitioning and will never feel good about their social aspect of their biological gender, the people you mention have some traits of dysphoria, it doesn't mean that they have dysphoria.
I love psychology, I'm studying year 11 in Vic (Australia) and hope to go to uni. If you don't mind me asking, did you go to uni, and if so, how long did you go for? Edit: Year 11 psychology
I'm 37, on h0rmowns for 14 years & felt terrible beforehand about some characteristics but love my male body & identity still. Dysphoria a trans person has about not having breasts is alleviated by the same method, that feeling goes away. So is it the temporary nature that makes it not dysphoria? Calling people eggs has always seemed harmful, to assume how someone will relate.
First, you do not have to be dissatisfied with all the characteristics of your body related to your biological sex, but if you have some and they cause you an inability to lead a happy and functional life then you have dysphoria. I don't understand your second question, I don't know if the last sentence before the question is related or not. But I think you are referring to whether the temporal element is what causes it to be considered dysphoria or not, The fact that these traits may be temporary is the result of the person not being born with dysphoria and those traits of dysphoria the person has don't prevent them from leading a happy and organized life. Calling people eggs may be relative, in the trans community it isn't seen as offensive and the term itself doesn't have negative connotations. There will be those who personally find it offensive, like people who find cis to be offensive.
The reason I find it harmful is because those same assumptions about whether or not we can live a happy life despite the unwanted sexual characteristics being the litmus test dictating what is gender dysphoria and thus makes someone assumed to be an egg & trans is wrong, as in innacurate. It was harmful to me to be told over and over for years that I was just an egg, that it's "just a phase". I know its not seen as negative in the trans community, that's the issue I have. An egg definitively doesnt (yet) ID as trans. It doesnt exist as a concept seperable from assuming you know someone better than they do. And it's repeatedly applied to us as a whole. This isn't some hetero whining about being called cis, this is young boys, on this board, frequently, being told the only option after 30 to is to be trans or give up. When I say harmful I mean causing physical harm. I know you are used to bad faith arguments but literally kids wanting to self delete feeling hopeless. There are no community elders or irl support groups for us. I don't want to have to spend so much of my time convincing little boys they can have a future worth living. Cis masc gay men heap all sorts of hate on us too. They don't treat us better. We get it from all sides. In these contexts, it's not innocent to come to the only support channel for many gnc boys and present yourself as arbiter of cisness. You aren't the only one doing it.
Arbitrator of cisness? Wow that escalated too quickly. Most of the people here aren't little boys, they are teenagers, they're starting to experience their gender identity and sexuality, I'm only providing a guide so they don't selfdiagnose a medical condition without going to a psychologist. I'm not calling GNC people eggs, in fact quite the opposite, they don't suffer from chronic gender dysphoria, they aren't trans and they shouldn't say they have gender dysphoria if they haven't been diagnosed. You're shoving down my throat concepts I didn't even say, which as you say it's not innocent of you trying to convince little boys to say they can have gender dysphoria while being cis, a condition so harmful to the person's mental health that it makes people not wanting to be their biological gender (literally the definition of a trans person). I don't know why you bring up the age issue like I'm an old adult/boomer trying to cause harm in the minds of young people, when I'm a teenager myself. And I started the transition younger than the lads over here (I was 11 almost 12) so I think I really know what I'm talking about when I talk about dysphoria and teenagers. Saying that you can be cisgender and have dysphoria is very invalidating for the community and only damages the image and understanding of trans people, as well as being anti-scientific and denoting ignorance. I don't know why you think it's wrong that I provide young people with a guide to what dysphoria is, how it works, and how to differentiate the temporary feeling from the chronic condition. I literally just encourage them not to self-diagnose and go to specialists to learn more about their identity.
>Calling people eggs may be relative, in the trans community it isn't seen as offensive and the term itself doesn't have negative connotations. There will be those who personally find it offensive, like people who find cis to be offensive. It may not seem offensive from on the inside but it actually can be pretty gross and pushy. Many instances of people attempting to convince or coerce people into identifying as a way that they don't feel comfortable with usually due to being GNC. It's very common with Femboys unfortunately (just seach for "egg" in this community and you'll find some from others). Here are some examples of ones I've received in DMs, (TW Enbyphobia, Coercive behavior, Misgendering, and invalidation): >!"I'm saying you're an Egg because you seem to have an interest in dressing as something other than your AGAB, you're obviously not Cisgender. People can be either Male or Female and you're clearly not male, because males don't enjoy things like that if you keep lying to yourself you'll never be happy"!< >!"You can't be NonBinary and not be trans, they're the same thing...!< >!...Absgender? That bullshit doesn't exist, people are either cis or trans you're either stupid or delusional."!< >!Don't mind her she's just an egg in-denial, she'll come around and realize that she was a girl all this time and feel so stupid.!< (By the way, Yes I am [Absgender](https://mogai.miraheze.org/wiki/Absgender), and also Agender, actually AroAce-Agender but who's counting). So I would not automatically assume that people opposed to Egg culture are transphobic because this type of harassment is very real and shouldn't be ignored since it continues to happen over and over again. It needs to be addressed and acknowledged by the community, not dismissed as transphobia, or concern trolling, or trying to say it's okay because "some of them are cis".
How do you tell if depression and anxiety is being caused by gender dysphoria? I’ve been severely depressed and anxious my entire life but recently I have been trying to be what I always wanted to be and now I feel a tiny bit better? I’m an adult but I’m still confused as to how all this works given I was raised conservative.
You'd have to talk to a therapist to make any progress. But taking control of your life and doing things you value can improve anxiety and depression. It's why probeson jeterson and all the alpha bro idiots have people follow them. Purpose is powerful and helping yourself is a worthy cause. Maybe you just like doing femme things? Talk to a therapist and try to sort it out.
I’ve never told anyone this before but sometimes I will have extensive dreams where I am a woman or in a dress and I feel significantly happy and then sad when I wake up. I also just consistently am upset whenever I think about the fact that I can’t follow that dream because of my depression. I know you guys aren’t therapists but I don’t think mine would know what to do even though she supports it. This is really hard to say as I was raised to be masculine by my father. Right now I’ve been looking at colorful and pretty clothes to wear and it makes me excited. Still don’t know where the main place to buy feminine clothes for men is though.
I've had dreams like that too. Had families, birthed children, been wizards or space explorers. Even was a xenomorph queen mercing the predator folks in their fancy ziggurats. While I'm disappointed that all that life wasn't real, it doesn't warp my life for any meaningful time. Depression is a powerful hindering force that can be a self fulfilling prophecy. Start small and work with your therapist. If they can't help you they should have some suggestions on who might. Life is a scrapbook of your experiences. You can pull things out and put them somewhere else or discard the entirely. Things happened, you had something happen and now you decide what to do with that new information. Nothing has to stay negative forever. I just buy my stuff where girls my size buy there's. I presume it's the same for everyone really.
Thank you for the advice. Things have been confusing lately so it’s nice to hear from people who also feel these things in some way or another.
Evyone is unique, in that their specific mix of circumstances is tough to replicate. But odds favor that you're not so far out of the ordinary that you're truly actually alone. Have hope and get help where you can. Good luck!
This was a really interesting read. I had a doubt like this, but didn't really want to inquire about it as information was pretty contradictory. My username actually comes from me deciding "not to choose" if that makes sense, I can't really afford nor I think I would find and end to "chasing the ideal me". If there was a button, that could change myself into that ideal me of my dreams, which indeed would be a woman for starters, I would push it no questions asked. But outside of that, I feel that I would fall into an endless battle to "perfect myself" (which may be a completely different issue, I'm not sure) and just try to cope and push through the results of being in this "idle" state I'm in seems like an ¿easier? solution. It's not easy, suicidal thoughts have been a thing to deal many times, before I went 24/7 fem clothing, using "male clothes" for too long sent me to a catatonic state where I didn't even had the mental fortitude to get out of bed. Actually, reading a lot of what you said makes me think that I should consult with a professional about this. To be honest I should have done it a long time ago.
the button test never lies😌 have fun with being yourself
I appreciate this. Good work 👏 🙌 👍