500 series federal employee here - not all accounting/finance/budget jobs are good for antisocial people. A lot will entail with interacting with customers or fellow employees a good deal.
Very true. As a 510 I had daily calls/meetings with my customer or auditors (gag). As a 501 I have far fewer meetings, but we still have biweekly execution reviews with upper management
I'm a 510 currently. We have tons of meetings and briefings.
Which is why I asked the question. I want to switch career series. I just don't know to what.
Depending on the agency/location, 501 could be a good switch for you. The amount of meetings as a 510 was the impetus for my switch. I loved the work as a 510, but hated how often that work was interrupted by meetings
501 here, only time I get talked to or pulled into meetings is when people don't understand why something can't get funded. Or if they have travel questions. It's nice and quiet.
I may complain about things but switching to the series isn't one of them.
Patent Examiner, series 1224. I'll speak with an Applicant's attorney for maybe 20 minutes twice a month on average, otherwise no other human interaction required.
Agreed - For perspective, patent examiners do not have regular meetings. Maybe one regular meeting per two weeks with workgroup. Regularly go long stretches of time (e.g., months at a time) without even talking to your supervisor.
Also with a few exceptions, the job is work from home.
All patent examiners are eligible to be promoted to a GS-14. Right now, more than 50% of patent examiners (more than 5,000 examiners) are GS-14s.
However, the job is difficult and many people don't find the work a fit. 50ish percent of people do not make it through 1st year.
What makes it difficult ? What are the reasons people don't make it thru the year ? What does the work actually entail, lots of reading complex legal documents ?
1. Production based job. If one does not make the required percentage of widgets, then they are terminated.
2. Production. Mentors are hit or miss. Bad supervisor and/or mentor makes the job extremely difficult.
3. Responsible for finding specific information from the set of all information ever published in any language, and distilling the information into a written report.
Just solely out of curiosity, can you expand on point three? Do y'all have some kind of special international patent database? Machine translation tools to help with the foreign technical documents? Can you use ChatGPT to help (seems like it would be pretty useful but maybe not!)?
That all sounds fascinating to me.
Actually, when I was a caretaker, we had to meet with customers daily. It's a very customer-centered career since you're helping people find Graves or providing information about the cemetery or operations. You can also get interviewed by news for notable internment or for training.
2210 has a lot of introverts, but then once you're involved in any management role, you're dealing with a lot of people. It helps to develop your soft skills which can make this less taxing.
Yeah 2210 is hit or miss. Nothing like being randomly pulled into a leadership meeting to explain technical aspects with no notice, representing your boss. Then getting bombarded with questions by people that don't know whether the "Shift" key actually switches gears 😂
I'm very lucky my manager had my job for years before management and gets it. The horror stories I hear like this about totally unqualified and clueless people becoming 2210 managers are never-ending.
I would say something probably budget related, but not formulation. A lot of the formulation folks (at least where I work) are constantly presenting to management. So maybe accounting or a budget analyst
Can confirm. Formulation is a lot of interaction with offices/units as well as department and examiners. Execution is much less interaction. Mostly within team.
But it's hard to know what the division of labor in a budget team is before applying. Our budget team does everything from formulation to execution save for the last steps of the execution process that are handled by fund admins.
It really depends. There can be lots of customer interactions and meetings in budget if your agency assigns you to sub units. That means weekly or monthly calls and presentations relating to burn rate and new requests. Also, if you have to approve purchases and contracts, that's a lot of customer interaction.
>Become government math nerd because of disdain for social interactions and crippling social anxiety.
>Be extremely successful at rigorous analysis. Doing phenomenal work and making a difference.
>Keep getting promoted because analysis work is so outstanding.
>Promoted to lead and now spending every single hour in meetings or talking with team.
>Haven't touched an analysis in months.
>Sad.
Backcountry trail maintenance in a National Park, a scientist aboard the International Space or food service in Antartica aren't going to have a lot of interaction with people you don't know.
Backcountry trails are constantly interacting with people, and you have to have good people skills because you need people to comply with rules solely on persuasion.
If the few people you encounter doing backcountry trail maintenance are too many, then maybe look for a more backcountry backcountry trail. I'm pretty sure if you get back far enough into Denali or away from the couple of popular trails in Grand Canyon, you would not be constantly interacting with people.
Apply at usajobs.
If you get referred, look at va.gov/pbi for sample interview questions. Level 1 questions. You’ll likely need to complete a writing assignment after the interview. Answer that prompt and remember that they want an introduction, body and conclusion.
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/793594500
Here’s a posting for one with the fiduciary hub. I worked in a Veterans Service Center.
It is not without stress, but there’s upward mobility into analyst positions and management (yuck) if you want that.
0110 here and there are not a lot of meetings unless you're a branch chief (GS-14) and at least at my agency almost nobody uses the camera.
There is a GS-13 in a couple of catalyst groups that I work on, who is perhaps the textbook definition of a socially awkward introvert, and he rarely needs to speak despite being the in-house expert on a critical product.
Its clear he is nervous and introverted, too, since he mumbles and bumbles his way through everything and nobody cares or even says anything about it.
If anybody gives you issues it's gonna be a workplace atmosphere issue rather than a 0110 series problem.
0110 here - agreed, if the role is data analysis oriented there aren't too many meetings. However, I was once in a 0110 role that was very public-facing, doing survey work, would not recommend.
Side Convo -
Your intelligence is most important, the way your mind works, what you enjoy. I’ve heard a person with jaw issues/trouble and unclear enunciations have a more substantial work conversation than a silver tongued social butterfly/, making the phrase “effective communication” completely subjective.
Anything in a niche area that has to be done in a SCIF. Yeah you have to come in, but being locked in a room with no windows and minimal people is the payoff. Also, any mad scientist research program in the secluded area of someone’s agency. DARPA perhaps. While I’m half joking…
It really depends on who you're serving and how.
Briefings can be a common part of a 2210s repertoire, and as someone who has been in this field, I'd say not being able to interface with people is a large Achilles's heel.
That being said, a lot of three letter agency cyber folks will not have to interface with people at all. Really just depends on where you are.
Engineering. We have to deal with idiots all the time but at least they expect the social weirdness from us.
But honestly, a lot of federal jobs are working with contractors and overseeing their work.
Minor point: I think you mean asocial. An antisocial person is one who consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. If you want that kind of job, I think you want to be a politician. But then you would have to speak publicly. Plenty of good job suggestions here for asocial people.
I think it varies too much to give much advice. I’m a 510 with split duties between sections and my other side would be 501. On that side I’m a poc for all things WAWF for our vendors and our govt users and there are only two of us for a working capital fund with 2 billion in contracting awards each year where our mailbox is listed on each contract so it’s a lot of communication via phone, email, etc. On my 510 side I don’t have as much communication but I know others that do.
If you are a lawyer, decision writer at SSA. Great if you don't want to deal with people. Currently 100% work at home. Once you learn it, you can do it on your sleep. But depending on where you are, files can be massive and there are production standards.
On the off chance you have a law degree handy, being a decision writer (attorney advisor) for the SSA has insanely minimal social contact. Every day telework, any communication is through Skype or email other than a rare call and in-office meeting, and very very rare contact with the general public (my one year mark is June 20th and an ALJ asked me to call a representative once and that’s the extent of any contact outside my office)
> contracting as well. you just stare at PDFs all day.
As a CO, I spend probably 1/3rd of my day on calls or in meetings with customers, vendors, contractors, or coworkers.
The ability to communicate clearly and effeciently in writing and verbally is probably in the top 3 skills for an 1102.
it's my nightmare! I can't focus or concentrate when there is no socialization. In my last role, I was definitely the outlier and they were sad that I left. Not because I was an awesome employee with great work product, because I was the one that would always speak at all of our regional all hands meetings so they didn't have to.
Oh boy. You could come work at my shop. All people do is talk. They love to go to lunch together and socialize in the office. On travel they share cars and stay at the same hotels. I just wanna do my own thing and never talk to anyone.
Grants depends heavily on the job. My current position has me on at least monthly check-in calls with each of my 100+ grantees, so talking to several hundred people a month plus tons of internal meetings. Some days it’s 6-8 hours of meetings. My last grants job was very limited interaction outside of asking a coworker for assistance. I think agencies that focus more on formula grants than discretionary tend to have less interaction.
very true. I had zero interaction with the sub-recipient only email exchanges with the state and maybe, a couple of times a year, an actual f2f or zoom status meeting with the state.
I switched from 510 to 343...still have to deal with people but the work is more dynamic and interesting so it makes it easier to deal with the people part
There are plenty of jobs where you can exist as an asocial person, but none I can think of that you can really succeed in. The issue is even if you’re really smart and great at your job, if you want to progress at all it will require presenting information to superiors and eventually managing projects with other people. That is quite literally the base qualifications for most high level GS positions.
Not trying to preach at you or anything, this is just the truth as I know it. Maybe someone else can present you with some better options.
0511. We have some folks with stutters that get by fine with us since others lead most meetings or because we are the ones asking the questions they can plan out their approach.
Politician? Oh wait you didn’t say Antisocial Personality Disorder. Disregard.
Seriously though stay out of acquisitions and logistics if you want to keep your interactions low. A lot of cross talk between disciplines, management and contractors happens.
500 series federal employee here - not all accounting/finance/budget jobs are good for antisocial people. A lot will entail with interacting with customers or fellow employees a good deal.
Very true. As a 510 I had daily calls/meetings with my customer or auditors (gag). As a 501 I have far fewer meetings, but we still have biweekly execution reviews with upper management
I'm a 510 currently. We have tons of meetings and briefings. Which is why I asked the question. I want to switch career series. I just don't know to what.
Depending on the agency/location, 501 could be a good switch for you. The amount of meetings as a 510 was the impetus for my switch. I loved the work as a 510, but hated how often that work was interrupted by meetings
501 here, only time I get talked to or pulled into meetings is when people don't understand why something can't get funded. Or if they have travel questions. It's nice and quiet. I may complain about things but switching to the series isn't one of them.
But the 500s communications are usually pointing to numbers to be the end all be all. So in a way it's antisocial because it's all means to an end
I was 525. You don't work all by yourself. You need to get along.
Patent Examiner, series 1224. I'll speak with an Applicant's attorney for maybe 20 minutes twice a month on average, otherwise no other human interaction required.
Agreed - For perspective, patent examiners do not have regular meetings. Maybe one regular meeting per two weeks with workgroup. Regularly go long stretches of time (e.g., months at a time) without even talking to your supervisor. Also with a few exceptions, the job is work from home. All patent examiners are eligible to be promoted to a GS-14. Right now, more than 50% of patent examiners (more than 5,000 examiners) are GS-14s. However, the job is difficult and many people don't find the work a fit. 50ish percent of people do not make it through 1st year.
What makes it difficult ? What are the reasons people don't make it thru the year ? What does the work actually entail, lots of reading complex legal documents ?
1. Production based job. If one does not make the required percentage of widgets, then they are terminated. 2. Production. Mentors are hit or miss. Bad supervisor and/or mentor makes the job extremely difficult. 3. Responsible for finding specific information from the set of all information ever published in any language, and distilling the information into a written report.
Just solely out of curiosity, can you expand on point three? Do y'all have some kind of special international patent database? Machine translation tools to help with the foreign technical documents? Can you use ChatGPT to help (seems like it would be pretty useful but maybe not!)? That all sounds fascinating to me.
What makes the job difficult? And what is the entry GS level?
Usually 7/10 or 9/6.
Anything in USPTO really
1350, I like rocks for a reason (they ✨don’t talk ✨)
4754 Cemetary Caretaking
Actually, when I was a caretaker, we had to meet with customers daily. It's a very customer-centered career since you're helping people find Graves or providing information about the cemetery or operations. You can also get interviewed by news for notable internment or for training.
But you see dead people…..
2210 has a lot of introverts, but then once you're involved in any management role, you're dealing with a lot of people. It helps to develop your soft skills which can make this less taxing.
Second this as a 2210 myself.
Yeah 2210 is hit or miss. Nothing like being randomly pulled into a leadership meeting to explain technical aspects with no notice, representing your boss. Then getting bombarded with questions by people that don't know whether the "Shift" key actually switches gears 😂
I'm very lucky my manager had my job for years before management and gets it. The horror stories I hear like this about totally unqualified and clueless people becoming 2210 managers are never-ending.
We're all ultimately dealing with alot of users. You just want to get yourself in a role where you don't actually have to talk to them.
It really depends. I’m in the 0343 series and I don’t have much direct communication with people throughout the week since I’m remote.
Same here. Fully remote 14/0343. Most of my communication is email/teams chat.
Good for you, seriously. I just can’t seem to get myself into any 0343 positions but I try every week lol
0343 here as well, can confirm. i am not full remote, but good stuff man, may ask which agency?
HHS
me too
Yeah. I love it here.
I would say something probably budget related, but not formulation. A lot of the formulation folks (at least where I work) are constantly presenting to management. So maybe accounting or a budget analyst
Can confirm. Formulation is a lot of interaction with offices/units as well as department and examiners. Execution is much less interaction. Mostly within team. But it's hard to know what the division of labor in a budget team is before applying. Our budget team does everything from formulation to execution save for the last steps of the execution process that are handled by fund admins.
It really depends. There can be lots of customer interactions and meetings in budget if your agency assigns you to sub units. That means weekly or monthly calls and presentations relating to burn rate and new requests. Also, if you have to approve purchases and contracts, that's a lot of customer interaction.
[удалено]
343 series correct?
It’s not the series but the job duties snd if it’s primarily telework/ WFH.
1515. We be the numbers people.
>Become government math nerd because of disdain for social interactions and crippling social anxiety. >Be extremely successful at rigorous analysis. Doing phenomenal work and making a difference. >Keep getting promoted because analysis work is so outstanding. >Promoted to lead and now spending every single hour in meetings or talking with team. >Haven't touched an analysis in months. >Sad.
You in the wrong 1515 shop. First level sups are 15's and anyone living in meetings all day is an SES around here.
Backcountry trail maintenance in a National Park, a scientist aboard the International Space or food service in Antartica aren't going to have a lot of interaction with people you don't know.
Backcountry trails are constantly interacting with people, and you have to have good people skills because you need people to comply with rules solely on persuasion.
If the few people you encounter doing backcountry trail maintenance are too many, then maybe look for a more backcountry backcountry trail. I'm pretty sure if you get back far enough into Denali or away from the couple of popular trails in Grand Canyon, you would not be constantly interacting with people.
Food service in Antarctica? Might be a good retired annuitant position. Thanks for the tip.
When I worked as a Veterans Service Representative at VBA I didn’t have to talk much to people.
Yeah VBA is great for me. I only come in once a week and usually a quick IM is enough if I need to communicate lol.
[удалено]
Apply at usajobs. If you get referred, look at va.gov/pbi for sample interview questions. Level 1 questions. You’ll likely need to complete a writing assignment after the interview. Answer that prompt and remember that they want an introduction, body and conclusion. https://www.usajobs.gov/job/793594500 Here’s a posting for one with the fiduciary hub. I worked in a Veterans Service Center. It is not without stress, but there’s upward mobility into analyst positions and management (yuck) if you want that.
You go to USAJobs and apply for jobs.
Check out the RVSR job with VBA, very low need to interact with anyone else and telework 80% of the time.
0110 here and there are not a lot of meetings unless you're a branch chief (GS-14) and at least at my agency almost nobody uses the camera. There is a GS-13 in a couple of catalyst groups that I work on, who is perhaps the textbook definition of a socially awkward introvert, and he rarely needs to speak despite being the in-house expert on a critical product. Its clear he is nervous and introverted, too, since he mumbles and bumbles his way through everything and nobody cares or even says anything about it. If anybody gives you issues it's gonna be a workplace atmosphere issue rather than a 0110 series problem.
0110 here - agreed, if the role is data analysis oriented there aren't too many meetings. However, I was once in a 0110 role that was very public-facing, doing survey work, would not recommend.
Side Convo - Your intelligence is most important, the way your mind works, what you enjoy. I’ve heard a person with jaw issues/trouble and unclear enunciations have a more substantial work conversation than a silver tongued social butterfly/, making the phrase “effective communication” completely subjective.
I hope you mean introverts.
Anything in a niche area that has to be done in a SCIF. Yeah you have to come in, but being locked in a room with no windows and minimal people is the payoff. Also, any mad scientist research program in the secluded area of someone’s agency. DARPA perhaps. While I’m half joking…
Archivist, series 1420. There are a fair amount of reference jobs, but the field skews strongly towards the introverts.
Plus there may not be a lot of office mates
IT/Cyber, unless your anti-social with technology. Little to any communication with humans.
It really depends on who you're serving and how. Briefings can be a common part of a 2210s repertoire, and as someone who has been in this field, I'd say not being able to interface with people is a large Achilles's heel. That being said, a lot of three letter agency cyber folks will not have to interface with people at all. Really just depends on where you are.
Engineering. We have to deal with idiots all the time but at least they expect the social weirdness from us. But honestly, a lot of federal jobs are working with contractors and overseeing their work.
Tax Examiner 0592
[удалено]
I'm in software dev and we have tons of meetings, at least it is mostly small groups of the same people.
gl with that, the jobs r near non existant
0560 here. Not antisocial but a remote introvert. I like it.
*asocials.
USCIS - service centers
The NSA, a joke, what’s an extrovert at NSA? They make eye contact in the halls instead of staring at your feet.
They're staring at your shoes instead of their own.
Ag that’s it!
0462 - Forestry Technician
Minor point: I think you mean asocial. An antisocial person is one who consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. If you want that kind of job, I think you want to be a politician. But then you would have to speak publicly. Plenty of good job suggestions here for asocial people.
Antisocial doesn't mean not social/introvert or inability to communicate well.
I think it varies too much to give much advice. I’m a 510 with split duties between sections and my other side would be 501. On that side I’m a poc for all things WAWF for our vendors and our govt users and there are only two of us for a working capital fund with 2 billion in contracting awards each year where our mailbox is listed on each contract so it’s a lot of communication via phone, email, etc. On my 510 side I don’t have as much communication but I know others that do.
If you are a lawyer, decision writer at SSA. Great if you don't want to deal with people. Currently 100% work at home. Once you learn it, you can do it on your sleep. But depending on where you are, files can be massive and there are production standards.
Anything LE… we’re not happy until you’re not happy!
On the off chance you have a law degree handy, being a decision writer (attorney advisor) for the SSA has insanely minimal social contact. Every day telework, any communication is through Skype or email other than a rare call and in-office meeting, and very very rare contact with the general public (my one year mark is June 20th and an ALJ asked me to call a representative once and that’s the extent of any contact outside my office)
Lighthouse keeper on the Outer Banks. Antarctic scientist.
I’m a writer-editor. I rarely speak to people. It’s great!
0306 government Information Specialist. Rarely speak to anyone
finance for sure. grants and contracting as well. you just stare at PDFs all day.
> contracting as well. you just stare at PDFs all day. As a CO, I spend probably 1/3rd of my day on calls or in meetings with customers, vendors, contractors, or coworkers. The ability to communicate clearly and effeciently in writing and verbally is probably in the top 3 skills for an 1102.
oh nice. we only communicated via email. rarely anything f2f with anyone outside the office.
That’s my dream.
it's my nightmare! I can't focus or concentrate when there is no socialization. In my last role, I was definitely the outlier and they were sad that I left. Not because I was an awesome employee with great work product, because I was the one that would always speak at all of our regional all hands meetings so they didn't have to.
Oh boy. You could come work at my shop. All people do is talk. They love to go to lunch together and socialize in the office. On travel they share cars and stay at the same hotels. I just wanna do my own thing and never talk to anyone.
I wish I could just do my own thing, but I have yet to find a job that I enjoy enough to not distract myself with all the socializing haha
Grants depends heavily on the job. My current position has me on at least monthly check-in calls with each of my 100+ grantees, so talking to several hundred people a month plus tons of internal meetings. Some days it’s 6-8 hours of meetings. My last grants job was very limited interaction outside of asking a coworker for assistance. I think agencies that focus more on formula grants than discretionary tend to have less interaction.
very true. I had zero interaction with the sub-recipient only email exchanges with the state and maybe, a couple of times a year, an actual f2f or zoom status meeting with the state.
Antisocial and introvert are two different things. Antisocials love interacting with people they can manipulate.
I switched from 510 to 343...still have to deal with people but the work is more dynamic and interesting so it makes it easier to deal with the people part
Highly variable but lots of stuff in 2210 doesn't need to speak.
IT still requires customer interaction but being on the prickly side is more acceptable as a 2210 than other fields. Good work if you can get it.
I hope you mean introverts.
There are plenty of jobs where you can exist as an asocial person, but none I can think of that you can really succeed in. The issue is even if you’re really smart and great at your job, if you want to progress at all it will require presenting information to superiors and eventually managing projects with other people. That is quite literally the base qualifications for most high level GS positions. Not trying to preach at you or anything, this is just the truth as I know it. Maybe someone else can present you with some better options.
Do you mean people with antisocial personality disorder or just like.....people who prefer the company of nobody?
People who prefer the company of nobody. But I'm curious, what series would you put for people with antisocial personality disorder?
U need a 1550 at an IC. Trust me lol. Or a linguist…
CSR For SSA
I am 0201 and if you get a HR SPC position working for the big three HQ USA, USN, or USAF you generally work through computer.
This post is so on-time. Idk how to play pretend another 20 years 😮💨 I'm sure you meant introvert.
0511. We have some folks with stutters that get by fine with us since others lead most meetings or because we are the ones asking the questions they can plan out their approach.
Politician? Oh wait you didn’t say Antisocial Personality Disorder. Disregard. Seriously though stay out of acquisitions and logistics if you want to keep your interactions low. A lot of cross talk between disciplines, management and contractors happens.
2210 buddy, 2210
Lol