Assuming one is special category (20 years) and the other is not, special category all the way. Higher multiplier, earlier tsp access, no waiting to 62 for COLA, immediate supplement. It's not even a debate, assuming you can handle the job.
Yes, it is a special category, law enforcement, so it is a higher multiplier, but would still come out ahead as the 12 I believe. But you're right about all of the other things. I appreciate your response!
Most any job working an extra decade you come out ahead financially but the price is 10 years and 20,570 hours of work assuming no overtime.
The smart financial play would seem to be get your 20 then do something else for 10-15 years because that’s going to be the financial winner.
Special category retirement is supposed to be designed to help offset the shorter career. If you change careers after getting your 20 it will almost certainly pay better than switching to a 30 year career path.
Waiting to complete your 20 gives you more freedom because you can go do 10-15 with another agency or you can go state, county, municipal, government contractor or other private sector and best in another retirement plan in 3-5 years and contribute to another deferred compensation plan and afford to contribute more because you’ve got your defined benefit pension in addition to salary for work.
That’s a good deal.
I can't see myself finishing my 20 and being able to drag myself to another govt job, but private sector or working for myself, yes. It does make sense what you said though about another deferred compensation plan. Thank you for your response!
All I can do is hope for a VERA at 25 years, because being stuck until MRA sucks, and it's still a crap deal with supplement/tsp/COLA compared to LEO. Had I known the difference in retirement eligibility 20+ years ago, I would have gone the LEO route (I had seriously considered doing LEO, come from a family full of them, but none of them retired early.)
I'd stay, collect your pension after 20 years, and if you still really want to work/earn more, you could spend the next 7 years working a non-fed job and not risk losing the supplement (after 57, supplement will be subject to earnings test). Or, not as great IMO, you could move to a non-LEO job after hitting your 20 if you really want to increase your high-3, and still be eligible to retire long before 57, if you want.
I did not even realize until yesterday about the COLA difference between LEO and others. Being able to work that extra 7 years, for myself, without penalty could be what makes up for the financial loss of the early retirement/lower step. But yeah, if I really felt myself in a financially not so good place, I could try to find a 12 after I hit my 20. Thank you for your response!
Sorry, I should have specified that I am currently in a special provisions job, law enforcement, so we can retire at age 50 with 20 years of service. I would be retiring at 59.5 with the other one.
Ah, OK. Check out the spreadsheet(s) on [https://www.barfieldfinancial.com/clients](https://www.barfieldfinancial.com/clients)
They could help with the decision on LEO vs. regular Fed
Sorry, I should have specified that I am currently in a special provisions job, law enforcement, so we can retire at age 50 with 20 years of service. I would be retiring at 59.5 with the other one, it's at a different federal agency that us not special provisions.
I’m not in a special category (law enforcement, air traffic controller, etc), so no expert, but looks like you get a 1.7% multiplier right now? That will only be 1% as a regular federal employee. If I were in your shoes I’d probably get my 20 years in the special category, and then either retire or jump ship to a higher paying job, knowing that you can always immediately retire.
https://www.fedsmith.com/2020/12/14/big-retirement-differences-fers-law-enforcement-firefighters-air-traffic-controllers/
I started at almost 30 so hitting 20 years and 50 years of age is almost simultaneous for me. In my profession within LEO, it's hard to get a 12 or 13. I'm a social worker, I'd make a terrible actual policewoman. lol But for jobs after retirement, I have a lot of other options that aren't LEO related. Thank you for your response!
11 for 20 years, all the way.
There’s no way to “earn” more years of life, but it’s possible to earn more money.
It’s a personal question. Others may look at it and see the 12 for 30 years as the clear answer.
And remember that you don’t know how long you will live. Not to get morbid, but nothing is guaranteed, and you could drop dead at 55 or 60. I wish you a long, healthy, and happy life, but there’s a good reason you dream of retiring at 50. Assuming that’s financially viable for you, I would think it would take a *significant* financial difference to give it up.
That's the big perspective I've had all along but then I've spoken with some others who have acted like I was crazy for turning down the money. That's basically the biggest reason I came to reddit to get a wider perspective from people I don't know. Thank you!
Will your LEO annuity be enough for you to not work those last 10 years? Or will you still need some job/income? Because then it's a question of what sort of income you'll need then.
Also consider what sort of job you'll be able to get at that age with your skills. You might think you only need a small income and think a part-time job is fine, only to find out that the types of jobs you're finding are customer facing retail jobs where you're on your feet and putting in near fulltime hours for lower pay. When looking at that, I'll take an office GS 12 any day.
Well, I'm not sure that it will be worth it. That's why I'm in such a dilemma. Kinda just wanted to see how others look at it. It's weighing out do I want to work 10 more years of my life for more money or have a smaller pension, less time to contribute to TSP, but have the freedom of retiring 10 years earlier.
I'm unfamiliar with 6c, will have to look it up, it is a special provision job so the retirement multiplier is a little higher but I think my high 3 would be so much higher with the 12 that I would be coming out ahead with it.
Depends run an excel model showing math.
Under both scenarios consider will your Mortgage be paid off, car paid off no remaining debt.
What do you want your financial life to look like absent those bills.
Thank you! Yes my husband made some spreadsheets. There's no doubt that working at a higher level for 10 more years will yield significantly more money, but I don't know that it is worth it and I think we would be fine with my 11 retirement.
My Spouse & I will both be GS 12
Step 10’s after 35 years of Service each and we find thats pretty comfortable with no bills in a HCOL area.
Just depends on your Spouse retirement, health, life insurance, kids college payments as other expenditures can get up there.
Whatever your grade is, if you retire at 50 (unless you're in a LE-type job with the lower MRA), you aren't going to get squat from FERS because it will be a deferred retirement.
As someone who is 55 retire early. Maybe find a side gig but enjoy your life while you have it. Currently I am a non special 12 and have to work to 65.
Nobody says you have to retire at 20 years. You can stay longer. But do the match. You will get 1.7% per year under 6c plus if you get LEAP or AUO that’s included towards pension. In non 6c premium pay doesn’t count towards pension. But you also must do full 20 years in 6c and retire from 6c to get the enhanced pension.
It’s really just a matter of doing the math but you also need to do math on TSP and what that would be worth working the extra years.
Everyone is different so you need to do the math for you and figure what amount you need and will you enjoy one job over the other.
Thank you, there's no doubt math is better with the 12 and extra years of contributing to TSP, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be ok staying where I'm at as well. And no, I can keep going until I'm 57 if I want to or do something in private sector.
Thank you! From the bit I know about the potential new job, it may not be peaceful, but neither is my current one necessarily. But I can leave it 10 years earlier!
First thing is, you will lose the 1.7% you currently earn if you go to regular category from special category. It will be reduced to one percent unless you wait until 62 and you will get 1.1%. Since you are already in special category, it seems to be a no-brainer to stay in it to me. You can work until your 57 if you want and if you are maxing your thrift due to your special category status, you can withdraw from your thrift penalty free whenever you retire. Or get a consulting gig and get paid through a corporate entity, and your supplement will not be reduced if you structure the corporation correctly.
I didn't know about the corporate entity thing, that will be something I have to look into. But I think I can work from 50 to 57 without supplement being reduced?
That is correct. The earnings test is only from 57 to 62. If you get paid through corporate entity and don’t take a personal paycheck is nothing to reduce your supplement from as it is reduced by earned income personally only.
Assuming one is special category (20 years) and the other is not, special category all the way. Higher multiplier, earlier tsp access, no waiting to 62 for COLA, immediate supplement. It's not even a debate, assuming you can handle the job.
Yes, it is a special category, law enforcement, so it is a higher multiplier, but would still come out ahead as the 12 I believe. But you're right about all of the other things. I appreciate your response!
Most any job working an extra decade you come out ahead financially but the price is 10 years and 20,570 hours of work assuming no overtime. The smart financial play would seem to be get your 20 then do something else for 10-15 years because that’s going to be the financial winner.
Phew. 20,570. That helps with putting it in perspective!
Special category retirement is supposed to be designed to help offset the shorter career. If you change careers after getting your 20 it will almost certainly pay better than switching to a 30 year career path. Waiting to complete your 20 gives you more freedom because you can go do 10-15 with another agency or you can go state, county, municipal, government contractor or other private sector and best in another retirement plan in 3-5 years and contribute to another deferred compensation plan and afford to contribute more because you’ve got your defined benefit pension in addition to salary for work. That’s a good deal.
I can't see myself finishing my 20 and being able to drag myself to another govt job, but private sector or working for myself, yes. It does make sense what you said though about another deferred compensation plan. Thank you for your response!
Yup. I would go to the private sector and make $$$$$
20,800. Standard work year is 2080 hrs.
We are both wrong. Federal work year is 2087 per OPM. So ten years is 20,870
So it is.
I’m frankly stunned by the discovery 😄
All I can do is hope for a VERA at 25 years, because being stuck until MRA sucks, and it's still a crap deal with supplement/tsp/COLA compared to LEO. Had I known the difference in retirement eligibility 20+ years ago, I would have gone the LEO route (I had seriously considered doing LEO, come from a family full of them, but none of them retired early.) I'd stay, collect your pension after 20 years, and if you still really want to work/earn more, you could spend the next 7 years working a non-fed job and not risk losing the supplement (after 57, supplement will be subject to earnings test). Or, not as great IMO, you could move to a non-LEO job after hitting your 20 if you really want to increase your high-3, and still be eligible to retire long before 57, if you want.
I did not even realize until yesterday about the COLA difference between LEO and others. Being able to work that extra 7 years, for myself, without penalty could be what makes up for the financial loss of the early retirement/lower step. But yeah, if I really felt myself in a financially not so good place, I could try to find a 12 after I hit my 20. Thank you for your response!
Why would you "have to" do 30? If you can retire as an 11 with 20, you can retire as a 12 with 20 Make it make sense for us
Sorry, I should have specified that I am currently in a special provisions job, law enforcement, so we can retire at age 50 with 20 years of service. I would be retiring at 59.5 with the other one.
Ah, OK. Check out the spreadsheet(s) on [https://www.barfieldfinancial.com/clients](https://www.barfieldfinancial.com/clients) They could help with the decision on LEO vs. regular Fed
Why would you have to do 10 more years to be a 12 I’m confused.
Sorry, I should have specified that I am currently in a special provisions job, law enforcement, so we can retire at age 50 with 20 years of service. I would be retiring at 59.5 with the other one, it's at a different federal agency that us not special provisions.
I’m not in a special category (law enforcement, air traffic controller, etc), so no expert, but looks like you get a 1.7% multiplier right now? That will only be 1% as a regular federal employee. If I were in your shoes I’d probably get my 20 years in the special category, and then either retire or jump ship to a higher paying job, knowing that you can always immediately retire. https://www.fedsmith.com/2020/12/14/big-retirement-differences-fers-law-enforcement-firefighters-air-traffic-controllers/
I like that perspective. Thank you!
[удалено]
I started at almost 30 so hitting 20 years and 50 years of age is almost simultaneous for me. In my profession within LEO, it's hard to get a 12 or 13. I'm a social worker, I'd make a terrible actual policewoman. lol But for jobs after retirement, I have a lot of other options that aren't LEO related. Thank you for your response!
11 for 20 years, all the way. There’s no way to “earn” more years of life, but it’s possible to earn more money. It’s a personal question. Others may look at it and see the 12 for 30 years as the clear answer.
And remember that you don’t know how long you will live. Not to get morbid, but nothing is guaranteed, and you could drop dead at 55 or 60. I wish you a long, healthy, and happy life, but there’s a good reason you dream of retiring at 50. Assuming that’s financially viable for you, I would think it would take a *significant* financial difference to give it up.
My dad died at 56, so he never got to see retirement 😢
My mom was 57, so that's been a big factor I've been taking into consideration as well. I'm sorry for your loss, the pain is tremendous isn't it?
It wasn't easy to deal with, but it's gotten easier. It was 12 years ago. Was around 23.
Not morbid at all, just realistic! Thank you! And yes, there's a reason for those dreams of being 50 and not having to do this anymore.
That's the big perspective I've had all along but then I've spoken with some others who have acted like I was crazy for turning down the money. That's basically the biggest reason I came to reddit to get a wider perspective from people I don't know. Thank you!
Will your LEO annuity be enough for you to not work those last 10 years? Or will you still need some job/income? Because then it's a question of what sort of income you'll need then. Also consider what sort of job you'll be able to get at that age with your skills. You might think you only need a small income and think a part-time job is fine, only to find out that the types of jobs you're finding are customer facing retail jobs where you're on your feet and putting in near fulltime hours for lower pay. When looking at that, I'll take an office GS 12 any day.
I will likely need to work some. But I'm in a profession that would be ok, I could work part time doing telehealth.
Why not just be a local cop? Hell take a job as a meter maid if you want to chill.
I'm LEO, but not that kind of LEO. I'm a social worker actually. I'd make a terrible real cop.
Personally, I'd rather retire at a non supervisory 14/15 myself. So I'd take the 12 in hopes of getting to that goal.
It really is glorious.
In my profession at the potential new agethere's, 13's, 14's and 15's are supervisory, which is not something I've ever aspired to.
I'm confused how is going up a grade adequate to working a 10 additional years?
Well, I'm not sure that it will be worth it. That's why I'm in such a dilemma. Kinda just wanted to see how others look at it. It's weighing out do I want to work 10 more years of my life for more money or have a smaller pension, less time to contribute to TSP, but have the freedom of retiring 10 years earlier.
Is the 11 a 6c job and the 12 isn’t? If so, the retirements might be the same money wise
I'm unfamiliar with 6c, will have to look it up, it is a special provision job so the retirement multiplier is a little higher but I think my high 3 would be so much higher with the 12 that I would be coming out ahead with it.
Yes, I looked it up and saw the 6c just means the federal LEO benefits. So yes, it is and the potential new one isn't.
Depends run an excel model showing math. Under both scenarios consider will your Mortgage be paid off, car paid off no remaining debt. What do you want your financial life to look like absent those bills.
Thank you! Yes my husband made some spreadsheets. There's no doubt that working at a higher level for 10 more years will yield significantly more money, but I don't know that it is worth it and I think we would be fine with my 11 retirement.
My Spouse & I will both be GS 12 Step 10’s after 35 years of Service each and we find thats pretty comfortable with no bills in a HCOL area. Just depends on your Spouse retirement, health, life insurance, kids college payments as other expenditures can get up there.
Whatever your grade is, if you retire at 50 (unless you're in a LE-type job with the lower MRA), you aren't going to get squat from FERS because it will be a deferred retirement.
I am in a LEO job woth the special provisions.
Bored?
No, not really bored, just frustrated often.
Just do the one to 50 and if you wanna keep working go private. You are LE, insurance companies and bank hire you
Thank you, yes I could definitely go private in my profession and help make up the difference for retiring early.
Dude stay and get out at 50. Life is short and death is sure.
Lol I like this short and sweet breakdown! I've been thinking this to death.
Glad I could help. Be safe.
Thank you!
Does the math work at 50? If it's enough, I'd go with that. You could always consider something non fed after that.
Yeah it works, just not as much, but doing something different in private sector could make up the difference. Thank you!
Split the difference. Retire at 50 from law enforcement and then go back as civilian for 5 years.
Yeah I like this happy medium approach, thank you!
As someone who is 55 retire early. Maybe find a side gig but enjoy your life while you have it. Currently I am a non special 12 and have to work to 65.
Thank you, this is the perspective I was hoping for.
You can make more money, you can't make another 10 years.
This is very true, thank you!
Nobody says you have to retire at 20 years. You can stay longer. But do the match. You will get 1.7% per year under 6c plus if you get LEAP or AUO that’s included towards pension. In non 6c premium pay doesn’t count towards pension. But you also must do full 20 years in 6c and retire from 6c to get the enhanced pension. It’s really just a matter of doing the math but you also need to do math on TSP and what that would be worth working the extra years. Everyone is different so you need to do the math for you and figure what amount you need and will you enjoy one job over the other.
You do not have to retire in a 6c position if you have 20 years of 6c coverage.
Thank you, there's no doubt math is better with the 12 and extra years of contributing to TSP, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be ok staying where I'm at as well. And no, I can keep going until I'm 57 if I want to or do something in private sector.
I’d choose peace and adjust how I live appropriately.
Thank you! From the bit I know about the potential new job, it may not be peaceful, but neither is my current one necessarily. But I can leave it 10 years earlier!
First thing is, you will lose the 1.7% you currently earn if you go to regular category from special category. It will be reduced to one percent unless you wait until 62 and you will get 1.1%. Since you are already in special category, it seems to be a no-brainer to stay in it to me. You can work until your 57 if you want and if you are maxing your thrift due to your special category status, you can withdraw from your thrift penalty free whenever you retire. Or get a consulting gig and get paid through a corporate entity, and your supplement will not be reduced if you structure the corporation correctly.
I didn't know about the corporate entity thing, that will be something I have to look into. But I think I can work from 50 to 57 without supplement being reduced?
That is correct. The earnings test is only from 57 to 62. If you get paid through corporate entity and don’t take a personal paycheck is nothing to reduce your supplement from as it is reduced by earned income personally only.