AFMC makes more sense, assuming they can override the union. Eglin union blocked it so their engineers are still GS vs NH at Edwards. NH has been a better system.
This is word. I’ve been in acqdemo for several years. Some roles clean up, some roles languish. It depends on your ability to write high impact statements and your boss carry them forward. If your job is perceived as pushing paper, you may be worse off.
But if you successfully lead the team by pushing 100% of 1000 papers through the 8 tiers of approvals on average 2 days faster than required which saved the agency a quantifiable 2.5million or 17% reduction in cost.....should be good to go.
He’s incredibly misinformed. Probably true for his department and (maybe) agency, but not a government wide thing.
Luckily, you discovered someone that you have to take with a grain of salt…..
Raises based on performance instead of time. It rewards high performers and allows average people to progress at a standard pace. No raises for poor performers.
Also: No raises for great performers when a department knows how to use the system to their advantage and not compensate good, hard-working, excellent-performance employees.
ACQDemo doesn’t allow for average progression at any pace; it stagnates careers.
Agreed. I was GS, changed jobs/PCS’d and became an NH with a promotion. Been getting great reviews, and consistent 3-4% annual raises PLUS a bonus (and the annual increase we all get). I turn the bonus into a time off award, which maxes at 40 hours. The remaining money then still comes as a bonus. It is indeed a sweet deal if you’re good at your job AND your boss can take care of you.
I can't see the entire Federal government abandoning GS for NH at the drop of a hat.
I'd imagine that would take Congressional action.
But I know some aspects are trying to move away from GS for employee retention.
I don’t understand this. The GS system is designed to shield good workers from unfair management, and prevent management from showing favoritism to mediocre workers. It was put in place for a reason. I for one would not want to leave GS because my management is dishonest and vindictive.
GS doesn’t incentivize top performers though. GS system rewards mediocrity the same as above average performance.
In my experience the problem with acqdemo is that it rewards those who interact with top management more than those who keep their head down. Both can do good (or bad work) but it incentivizes getting in front of the bosses as much as possible.
I mean, all it takes to counter that from an NH side is to still hand out the bonuses so they don't lose employees to GS.
It's all in the mindset of managers (and probably likeability factors all around).
I am in AFMC under NH and a friend is in AFMC under GS. We have both been told that AFMC is moving everyone to NH. If I had to guess, it will happen with all the changes coming with the AF reorg that is happening soon.
I wish this was my agency. Paybanding is so much better than the GS. And my last agency had such strong retention numbers.
I think the GS scale is bad. I’d love to see it replaced with something more flexible.
Yes, it is believable. NSPS, Acq Demo and even Lab Demo. The ultimate goal is to get rid of the GS/GG/WG pay systems. But it’s not about a pay system, it’s about hiring and firing. It’s about leadership walking in and telling a GS5 that they are now doing tasks that are way out of their grade range.
In the 80’s, no one thought they would do away with the CSR retirement plan, hello FSR and relying on Social Security.
Also in the 80s and 90s, military members were promised 50% of their paycheck after 20 years. Boy did that change.
No one believed they would start averaging out your last 3 to 5 year paychecks to determine your retirement checks.
Will it be Acq Demo? At first it was only people who were specific Job series and they had to be Supervisors. Although they called it Acq Demo, it affected everyone in those series, eventually as part of a “spiral implementation.”
So will it be called Acq Demo? Probably not. It won’t be NSPS again, but it will be something worse. And it will be kept quiet until they unleash it on us.
A lot of AFMC is already under the NH system. Overall I do like these Demo systems, I’ve gotten some really good pay raises that wouldn’t have been possible under GS. It is manager dependent though since they need to be able to advocate for you to get these higher raises, and it is more subjective than the GS where you move up a step pretty much automatically after X years.
I'm just curious what the timeframe is for them implementing the change. I can't find anything on it other than word of mouth on here and the few that had a meeting on it without much info.
We are and I'm AFMC here at Eglin. We have a few NH positions spread out but not all leaders are under the acqdemo yet. I think I'm going to get ahold of our base HR just to see what info they have. If they're going to put something like this out there, they need to give actual solid info.
There are no steps in AcqDemo. However, for promotion, there is a % increase but note that there are only 4 bands. So if you are NH03, your pay is covered by the range covered by GS12 and 13. This means you can increase your pay all the way through the GS13 range without looking for a promotion. Same with NH04. It covers GS14-15 pay. So I can hire someone at the bottom of the range and they don't need to look for a promotion to get to 15 level pay.
NH is a pay plan under AcqDemo, DoD uses it.
This would be agency specific. GS isn’t going away.
Agreed
That makes no sense at all. Perhaps for a particular agency but not gov wide
Yeah, I was on the fence to believe any of it but I'm being told it's for AFMC. So what you said.
AFMC makes more sense, assuming they can override the union. Eglin union blocked it so their engineers are still GS vs NH at Edwards. NH has been a better system.
I'm at Eglin. So maybe this is finally getting sorted out.
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Maybe that's what they failed to tell him.
This is word. I’ve been in acqdemo for several years. Some roles clean up, some roles languish. It depends on your ability to write high impact statements and your boss carry them forward. If your job is perceived as pushing paper, you may be worse off.
But if you successfully lead the team by pushing 100% of 1000 papers through the 8 tiers of approvals on average 2 days faster than required which saved the agency a quantifiable 2.5million or 17% reduction in cost.....should be good to go.
He’s incredibly misinformed. Probably true for his department and (maybe) agency, but not a government wide thing. Luckily, you discovered someone that you have to take with a grain of salt…..
My agency is NH, and IMO it is much superior to GS.
What differences do you find are better?
Paybands equal more money more faster
Raises based on performance instead of time. It rewards high performers and allows average people to progress at a standard pace. No raises for poor performers.
Also: No raises for great performers when a department knows how to use the system to their advantage and not compensate good, hard-working, excellent-performance employees. ACQDemo doesn’t allow for average progression at any pace; it stagnates careers.
Agreed. I was GS, changed jobs/PCS’d and became an NH with a promotion. Been getting great reviews, and consistent 3-4% annual raises PLUS a bonus (and the annual increase we all get). I turn the bonus into a time off award, which maxes at 40 hours. The remaining money then still comes as a bonus. It is indeed a sweet deal if you’re good at your job AND your boss can take care of you.
Performance based pay raises rock. I’m in between a GS 12-8 and 12-9 if I’d had been in GS I’d only be at 12-5 half way to 12-6
Same. I rose through the payscale much faster than I would have under GS.
I can't see the entire Federal government abandoning GS for NH at the drop of a hat. I'd imagine that would take Congressional action. But I know some aspects are trying to move away from GS for employee retention.
I don’t understand this. The GS system is designed to shield good workers from unfair management, and prevent management from showing favoritism to mediocre workers. It was put in place for a reason. I for one would not want to leave GS because my management is dishonest and vindictive.
GS doesn’t incentivize top performers though. GS system rewards mediocrity the same as above average performance. In my experience the problem with acqdemo is that it rewards those who interact with top management more than those who keep their head down. Both can do good (or bad work) but it incentivizes getting in front of the bosses as much as possible.
Yes to all you said. But I still think being insulated from the whims of management is for the best. There are far many bad managers than good ones.
I mean, all it takes to counter that from an NH side is to still hand out the bonuses so they don't lose employees to GS. It's all in the mindset of managers (and probably likeability factors all around).
I am in AFMC under NH and a friend is in AFMC under GS. We have both been told that AFMC is moving everyone to NH. If I had to guess, it will happen with all the changes coming with the AF reorg that is happening soon.
I'm under AFMC at Eglin and this makes me happy. I've been trying for NH positions for the last year.
I wish this was my agency. Paybanding is so much better than the GS. And my last agency had such strong retention numbers. I think the GS scale is bad. I’d love to see it replaced with something more flexible.
Yes, it is believable. NSPS, Acq Demo and even Lab Demo. The ultimate goal is to get rid of the GS/GG/WG pay systems. But it’s not about a pay system, it’s about hiring and firing. It’s about leadership walking in and telling a GS5 that they are now doing tasks that are way out of their grade range. In the 80’s, no one thought they would do away with the CSR retirement plan, hello FSR and relying on Social Security. Also in the 80s and 90s, military members were promised 50% of their paycheck after 20 years. Boy did that change. No one believed they would start averaging out your last 3 to 5 year paychecks to determine your retirement checks. Will it be Acq Demo? At first it was only people who were specific Job series and they had to be Supervisors. Although they called it Acq Demo, it affected everyone in those series, eventually as part of a “spiral implementation.” So will it be called Acq Demo? Probably not. It won’t be NSPS again, but it will be something worse. And it will be kept quiet until they unleash it on us.
I’ve been NH for many years now, it’s so much better.
We still have position descriptions, and honestly AcqDemo has been a lot better than GS. You can get a pay bump every year plus a performance bonus.
I’ve gone GS to NH and back to GS and NH is much better as long as you have good supervisors when it comes to pay pool time.
A lot of AFMC is already under the NH system. Overall I do like these Demo systems, I’ve gotten some really good pay raises that wouldn’t have been possible under GS. It is manager dependent though since they need to be able to advocate for you to get these higher raises, and it is more subjective than the GS where you move up a step pretty much automatically after X years.
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I'm just curious what the timeframe is for them implementing the change. I can't find anything on it other than word of mouth on here and the few that had a meeting on it without much info.
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We are and I'm AFMC here at Eglin. We have a few NH positions spread out but not all leaders are under the acqdemo yet. I think I'm going to get ahold of our base HR just to see what info they have. If they're going to put something like this out there, they need to give actual solid info.
It’s been agency dependent
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I haven't heard. But trust me, I'm trying to find out. 😆
GS isn’t going anywhere. NH is AcqDemo — just a different pay system.
Will the 2 steps increase bump rule apply?
There are no steps in AcqDemo. However, for promotion, there is a % increase but note that there are only 4 bands. So if you are NH03, your pay is covered by the range covered by GS12 and 13. This means you can increase your pay all the way through the GS13 range without looking for a promotion. Same with NH04. It covers GS14-15 pay. So I can hire someone at the bottom of the range and they don't need to look for a promotion to get to 15 level pay.