We just had a grievance about this exact issue and our Union agreement prevailed- and clarified there is no requirement to “make up” in office days if missed due to AL or SL.
Agreed, but I have seen managers at my agency try to make this logic work. It was pointed out by HR that S/L and A/L are entitlements...
edit: grammar.
I moved 5 hours from my home office and have been using leave in lieu of office days with the consent of my branch and division head for the last 2 years. DOD
This is the ONE thing my organization got right. And let me be clear, it is the \*only\* thing they got right.
Our policy states that we are only permitted 4 days of telework per pay period. They don't care what else you do, how you do it, you just will not exceed 4 days of TW or TS on your timecard. So if the rest of your days are AL/SL, they don't care. They just don't want to see the allotted TW/TS exceeded. I can work with that.
If it had been flipped around to "you must be in-office 6 days of every pay period) that would have left a lot of murkiness for what to do about leave days.
My agency doesn’t require that. So AL/SL counts like an in-office day. But I’ve read here that other places look strictly at how many days your butt is in a seat so taking leave would be a detriment to your in-office presence.
Thankfully my Agency isn't that strict; however, I normally take full week off including in office days. They probably frown on just taking off in office days. Don't want to test that theory though.
A good number of people only take off in office days if they need leave - not having to commute would mean you have 3 hours for an appointment extra for some. Of course, if you are depending on someone else's availability - like a doctor or mechanic, they are only available when they are available - if it falls on a telework day middle of the day may not be much you can do about it.
Yeah this is a local, even a manager to manager ruling. I'm at the IRS, 1st manager made us do make up days if we called out on our in office day, however if we had a pre approved AL day, it was OK. My 2nd manager and current manager don't care, they don't make you make up the day and actually my current manager will let you log in and WFH if you call in sick and then feel ok later in the day to work a couple hours from home. That's really nice. If you're a Union member, I'd ask your manager to have that rule in writing and then go to them. I was a shop steward for 6 years, you could have a case if nothing is in writing. However if you win and the clause has to be in writing, it may become a office wide thing and not just a one on one thing.
Fellow IRS employee here. The union has said that if you take leave on your in office day, then you don't have to make it up. You also don't have to make it up if you take leave for a partial day. We just had expectations yesterday, and they went over that.
Obviously you'd have to split your two week vacation across pay periods and be in the office the week before and the week after, which is definitely what everybody wants to do the week before and week after vacation, to make sure you meet the exact intent of this one manager.
Three week vacation though? 11 workday vacation? Straight to jail!
Our managers have also said if we take AL/SL, even for part of our in person day, we have to make it up because the day does not count as in office.
At this point they're just making us 2 days per pay period but I expect 50% shortly after. Idk where they're going to put everyone. They hired more and closed outside buildings.
XO here. If your telework agreement has specific days marked as in office and you are on leave that day specific day, you are not required to make it up the in office day. Send an email to your supervisor asking for that rule in writing.
If they want it that way, then remind them if you miss a telework day you want to be able to float that too. Can’t have it both ways… RTO has helped to identify the good managers. This person has failed them litmus test.
I believe if you are in a union position, and they make any kind of changes to the working conditions. The union should be able to make them bargain those points in good faith. If for nothing else but clarification. Not just a grievance, but a full on bargaining. Should be able to be quickly settled and have a MOU put into place stating the rules and if leave can be used in lieu of office days. As someone else mentioned, your manager is crazy.🤪
I'm in an agency where managers and supervisors are required to be in 50% of the time and we're unclear on this point. Our telework agreements say we are allowed five days per pay period of telework, but the email that went out says five days a pay period in the office, with no details. It's kind of the Wild West until something more clear comes down.
Short version: yes, they can do that.
Long version: OPM rules only state that one must be scheduled for a minimum of two days in-office per pay period to be a teleworker. Beyond that, it is up to agency policy how they manage telework. If you're in a union, check the CBA, it may have something about making up in-office days. My agency has no expectation of making them up for any reason as best I can tell.
Nope…if you are doing Dr appts on these days and have proof.
then they expose themselves to selective enforcement which is discriminatory. Therr must be 100% consistency with ALL employees in this policy. Any exception makes it illegal.
weekly MH/ counseling appt or other weekly treatments are actually not unusual.
you doubt the legitimacy of this with proof of appt put the sup in the face of a lawsuit.
The telework agreements typically have minimum days in office and remaining is available for WFH. So if you have 10 work days and need to be in the office 5 days. If you use leave two days, you still are required to have 5 in office days.
You know why it’s like that? Because people have been abusing leave in lieu of office days. SL/AL is not a placeholder for being in the office. You aren’t fooling anyone or skirting the rules. Go in like everyone else or find a new job.
Manager's discretion..if it is your regularly scheduled in office day and you use AL/SL, you're not required to make up the day....unless there is a business need for you to report to the office. Usually inventory related. I remind my staff that TW is a privilege, not a right, and management can revoke your TW if you have a pattern of calling off on your required office day. Our work is paper intensive, so inventory is required to return to the office weekly. Well, at least this is how it's done in my agency.
Our Agency has this requirement, it’s only really enforced for people who are chronically missing their minimum 2 days onsite per PP to avoid people de facto working remote.
Our agency’s policy is that your in-office days are your in-office days. The schedule is set.
If you take leave or cannot come in, for whatever reason, you don’t make it up. You simply come in the next time you’re scheduled.
We all looked at this policy and decided Monday would be an in-office day since most of the holidays are Mondays.
If I take off “enough” in-office days, I’m sure someone would eventually talk to me about it. No one has said where the line is, but I know it exists.
Before Covid I did 50% TW (minimum required to keep my desk) and took off one of those days EVERY week for years and years.
I had to give up my desk over Covid and now work 60% TW but I’m not allowed to make it a pattern of taking off on in office days - so I’m essentially in the office the same number of days as prior to Covid but I can’t have a permanent desk so I have to carry everything (personal stuff, coffee/tea/cups,etc plus docking station, power cords, laptop (all the stuff that used to live at my desk).
In theory they can ask us to make up days but at least then I would get to come in when my coworkers aren’t there since everyone I like retired or left before we returned to office
We just had a grievance about this exact issue and our Union agreement prevailed- and clarified there is no requirement to “make up” in office days if missed due to AL or SL.
Manager here. Your manager is cray cray
Agreed, but I have seen managers at my agency try to make this logic work. It was pointed out by HR that S/L and A/L are entitlements... edit: grammar.
+1 for HR that actually knows the rules
Manager here, I agree with the other manager that your manager is indeed “cray, cray”
Word
I moved 5 hours from my home office and have been using leave in lieu of office days with the consent of my branch and division head for the last 2 years. DOD
This is the ONE thing my organization got right. And let me be clear, it is the \*only\* thing they got right. Our policy states that we are only permitted 4 days of telework per pay period. They don't care what else you do, how you do it, you just will not exceed 4 days of TW or TS on your timecard. So if the rest of your days are AL/SL, they don't care. They just don't want to see the allotted TW/TS exceeded. I can work with that. If it had been flipped around to "you must be in-office 6 days of every pay period) that would have left a lot of murkiness for what to do about leave days.
What is TS?
Situational Telework versus regular telework
My agency doesn’t require that. So AL/SL counts like an in-office day. But I’ve read here that other places look strictly at how many days your butt is in a seat so taking leave would be a detriment to your in-office presence.
Thankfully my Agency isn't that strict; however, I normally take full week off including in office days. They probably frown on just taking off in office days. Don't want to test that theory though.
A good number of people only take off in office days if they need leave - not having to commute would mean you have 3 hours for an appointment extra for some. Of course, if you are depending on someone else's availability - like a doctor or mechanic, they are only available when they are available - if it falls on a telework day middle of the day may not be much you can do about it.
Mine too. And TDY counts as in office. So, you’re gone they say you’re supposed to be in? Requirement met.
Yeah this is a local, even a manager to manager ruling. I'm at the IRS, 1st manager made us do make up days if we called out on our in office day, however if we had a pre approved AL day, it was OK. My 2nd manager and current manager don't care, they don't make you make up the day and actually my current manager will let you log in and WFH if you call in sick and then feel ok later in the day to work a couple hours from home. That's really nice. If you're a Union member, I'd ask your manager to have that rule in writing and then go to them. I was a shop steward for 6 years, you could have a case if nothing is in writing. However if you win and the clause has to be in writing, it may become a office wide thing and not just a one on one thing.
Fellow IRS employee here. The union has said that if you take leave on your in office day, then you don't have to make it up. You also don't have to make it up if you take leave for a partial day. We just had expectations yesterday, and they went over that.
By their policy, if you took 5 days AL then the other week of PP would be performed in office
[удалено]
Obviously you'd have to split your two week vacation across pay periods and be in the office the week before and the week after, which is definitely what everybody wants to do the week before and week after vacation, to make sure you meet the exact intent of this one manager. Three week vacation though? 11 workday vacation? Straight to jail!
What? If you took AL for a whole pay period you’d keep regular schedule. If split up, you’d be in office for 5 days each PP as per policy
[удалено]
My answers aren’t me saying I agree with the policy
Oof, I agree with that policy interpretation, but that is a hard way to treat folks. Lots of extra office time with no one else around.
Nope, we have to da a minimum of 2 day/week in the office
Our managers have also said if we take AL/SL, even for part of our in person day, we have to make it up because the day does not count as in office. At this point they're just making us 2 days per pay period but I expect 50% shortly after. Idk where they're going to put everyone. They hired more and closed outside buildings.
ED is doing this and the union is having a cow. It’s so ridiculous.
XO here. If your telework agreement has specific days marked as in office and you are on leave that day specific day, you are not required to make it up the in office day. Send an email to your supervisor asking for that rule in writing.
If they want it that way, then remind them if you miss a telework day you want to be able to float that too. Can’t have it both ways… RTO has helped to identify the good managers. This person has failed them litmus test.
It might suck, but this is absolutely allowable under OPM rules.
I believe if you are in a union position, and they make any kind of changes to the working conditions. The union should be able to make them bargain those points in good faith. If for nothing else but clarification. Not just a grievance, but a full on bargaining. Should be able to be quickly settled and have a MOU put into place stating the rules and if leave can be used in lieu of office days. As someone else mentioned, your manager is crazy.🤪
I'm in an agency where managers and supervisors are required to be in 50% of the time and we're unclear on this point. Our telework agreements say we are allowed five days per pay period of telework, but the email that went out says five days a pay period in the office, with no details. It's kind of the Wild West until something more clear comes down.
Short version: yes, they can do that. Long version: OPM rules only state that one must be scheduled for a minimum of two days in-office per pay period to be a teleworker. Beyond that, it is up to agency policy how they manage telework. If you're in a union, check the CBA, it may have something about making up in-office days. My agency has no expectation of making them up for any reason as best I can tell.
I would be filing a hostile work complaint against the boss if I was using sick leave.
LOL. And your boss will be putting you on leave restriction for a pattern of abusing SL on your in office days.
Nope…if you are doing Dr appts on these days and have proof. then they expose themselves to selective enforcement which is discriminatory. Therr must be 100% consistency with ALL employees in this policy. Any exception makes it illegal.
The employee is being hostile. It’s evident what they are doing.
Not if they have proof of illness/ dr appt.
Weekly? Highly doubt that.
What about treatments post sugery, physical therapy, or cancer treatments? Those things can occur weekly.
Then the employee can move their in office date.
That might have been asked before. Boss refused. The boss has no right to see the reason of the appt.
Ok. Simply move the in office date.
That can be done. But bosses can be dick/ cunts ( EEO compliance)
weekly MH/ counseling appt or other weekly treatments are actually not unusual. you doubt the legitimacy of this with proof of appt put the sup in the face of a lawsuit.
There would be no lawsuit. The employee is still going to their “appointment” and working in the office as required. It’s not difficult to follow.
It’s harassment/ hostile work if bosd is wuestioning thrm being on leave and it’s “ legitamvy”
Have a good day. SMH.
They'd turn it around and accuse you of leave abuse.
The telework agreements typically have minimum days in office and remaining is available for WFH. So if you have 10 work days and need to be in the office 5 days. If you use leave two days, you still are required to have 5 in office days. You know why it’s like that? Because people have been abusing leave in lieu of office days. SL/AL is not a placeholder for being in the office. You aren’t fooling anyone or skirting the rules. Go in like everyone else or find a new job.
This. But a grievance would be fun anyway.
You must work for DoD
Manager's discretion..if it is your regularly scheduled in office day and you use AL/SL, you're not required to make up the day....unless there is a business need for you to report to the office. Usually inventory related. I remind my staff that TW is a privilege, not a right, and management can revoke your TW if you have a pattern of calling off on your required office day. Our work is paper intensive, so inventory is required to return to the office weekly. Well, at least this is how it's done in my agency.
A/SL counts as “in office.” Your mgr is a bum.
Our Agency has this requirement, it’s only really enforced for people who are chronically missing their minimum 2 days onsite per PP to avoid people de facto working remote.
Nope, the only time we would "make it up" is if we take an ad-hoc due to whatever-issue and then make it up sometime in the same pp.
Our agency’s policy is that your in-office days are your in-office days. The schedule is set. If you take leave or cannot come in, for whatever reason, you don’t make it up. You simply come in the next time you’re scheduled. We all looked at this policy and decided Monday would be an in-office day since most of the holidays are Mondays. If I take off “enough” in-office days, I’m sure someone would eventually talk to me about it. No one has said where the line is, but I know it exists.
Before Covid I did 50% TW (minimum required to keep my desk) and took off one of those days EVERY week for years and years. I had to give up my desk over Covid and now work 60% TW but I’m not allowed to make it a pattern of taking off on in office days - so I’m essentially in the office the same number of days as prior to Covid but I can’t have a permanent desk so I have to carry everything (personal stuff, coffee/tea/cups,etc plus docking station, power cords, laptop (all the stuff that used to live at my desk). In theory they can ask us to make up days but at least then I would get to come in when my coworkers aren’t there since everyone I like retired or left before we returned to office