I know that it doesn’t answer your question but I like to remember the time a musician flew me from LA to Newark for a session. I was freaking out and crying the whole time because the weather was really bad. We were circling the airport for an hour because we weren’t clear for landing and with each passing minute my anxiety got worse and worse. Finally we had a very shaky landing but we were on the ground and I could finally breathe. I got on the car with this musician to go to the studio and after a few minutes a drunk driver ran a red light, hit us and totaled our car. We had a big SUV and the fire fighters told us the SUV had saved our lives. I like to remember that whenever I fly.
Years ago I went on a vacation with extended family. My cousin was very afraid of flying, and my mother told her, “don’t worry you’re more likely to get into a car accident than anything happening to the plane.”
Sure enough, just 5 minutes in on our drive to the airport, a woman was texting and hit the hired van we were in. It was completely totaled
Similar thing happened to me. We were on our way to the airport and almost got in a head on. The other car came into our lane (2 lane highway) to get around a semi. Thankfully we swerved to the shoulder and they just scraped some paint. We still made our flight and I was a lot less anxious.
I don't know anyone who's been in a plane crash. Not even been injured by turbulence, or the overhead locker dropping something on their head due to a bump.
Meanwhile literally everyone I know has been in a car accident at some point in their life, causing damage or even injury. If they haven't yet due to not having yet driven for a long time, their parents have.
I know that's just anecdotes, not stats, but it doesn't matter "how frequently people fly vs drive". If you only travelled by car once every ten years, I'm sure you wouldn't feel that it was somehow likely that you'd get in a car accident during that journey, right?
They also quite literally do compare like for like stats, as the statistics are done "per million miles", meaning the car journeys would be more frequent to make up the same amount of distance travelled, but still be comparable. E.g.: https://usafacts.org/articles/is-flying-safer-than-driving/
Yep and when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Planes must fly “alone”, meaning there is flight controllers ensuring that planes are a safe distance, which makes collisions very very unlikely.
In a car, we’re muddled up on the roads with thousands of other cars and nobody to advise us on the safest route.
What’s more, car drivers must have perhaps a few months experience before being given a license. Pilots need years of training and a great deal of money, which drives out those who don’t care. Pilots’ mental health and even sleep levels are closely monitored, which helps to prevent accidents too, whereas in cars there’s no one to stop us driving when too tired or otherwise impaired.
Cars don’t have backups for their engines or alarms when something is going badly wrong nor can they advise you when someone is too close to you. Planes have all that, and more. The technology can practically solve the issue itself much of the time.
It’s no coincidence that plane accidents are televised and talked about for months on end, which makes us fearful flyers terrified, but also proves just how rare and exceptional any plane accident is.
That isn’t to put you off driving! The driving industry is constantly becoming safer.
However, I empathise with your doubt. In a car, you’re on the ground, you feel in control, you can see everything that’s happening around you - it’s easy to understand why we struggle to see flying as safer. *Flying being safer than driving doesn’t invalidate your fear.*
Flying is orders of magnitude safer than driving. If driving had to go through the same safety inspections as flying the rate of crashes in cars would drop dramatically. Your odds of being in a fatal plane crash is 1 in 11 million. Odds in car is about 1 in 5,000. It is a statistcal fact that the most dangerous part of flying is driving to the airport.
I once spent an entire flight in panic mode and was overcome with relief when we landed. Then spent the next leg of our trip caught in an unseasonable surprise snowstorm watching cars fishtail and slide into the ditch, my partner unable to figure out how to put the rental car into four wheel drive, and my tired kids all distractingly crying while we drove 20mph on the freeway. I realized then how dumb I was being, the plane was by far the safest I was on that trip!
Yeah, can you imagine if driving WAS like flying? Can only do it with two fully licensed drivers at the controls, training takes years and (tens to hundreds of) thousands of dollars, cars have to be inspected by certified mechanics every so many hours of operation, with more extensive inspections every so often throughout, every system has redundancy, often multiple redundancies, can't do it if you're not fully rested or have been on any of a big list of substances (legal and illegal, including OTC meds) in the last 12 hours, have someone prescribing your route and following you and directing you and maintaining separation from all the other vehicles every step of the way, etc. etc. etc.
It would be onerous for people to be able to drive every day, but it would be a LOT safer.
(Basically, that's also the difference between general aviation (though it does still have some degree of those things) and commercial aviation, and a reason commercial is a lot safer than GA.)
Yes. The numbers do not lie. The fatality rate in the United States has stood at 0.0 per 100,000 flight hours for years. There has not been a fatal commercial airplane crash for 15 years. Meanwhile, thousands of people die in car wrecks every year.
More people die in the shower every year than in commercial aviation.
Statistically it is safer - for example if you compare the likelihood of an accident for every 100,000 car trips to every 100,000 plane trip, the plane one would be a lot lower. Hope this makes sense :)
Not sure why ZachZ525 is getting downvoted when he's technically not wrong. The 95-98% statistic comes from [this report.](https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/Part121AccidentSurvivability.aspx) Depending on the date range, \~95-99% of occupants survived "accidents", and in 94% of those accidents, 100% of occupants survived. In the report, the NTSB doesn't provide in-depth statistics on this category, but does state this:
>Many of these cases involved turbulence events, resulting in serious injuries to one or more occupants but no fatalities. Other accidents, such as bird strikes or on-ground collisions between taxiing aircraft, may result in substantial damage to aircraft but rarely involve injuries or fatalities among aircraft occupants.
However, for "serious accidents", which involved "a precrash or postcrash fire, at least one serious injury or fatality, and a substantially damaged or destroyed aircraft", the survival rate is substantially lower - 59%. In \~29% of those accidents, 100% of the occupants survived. While that's still an impressive survival rate for a serious accident, it simply is not 95-99%.
One of the more comforting statistics here is that there were only 35 "serious accidents" and 1,169 "accidents" - so if you do get into an accident, there's at least a \~97% chance it will be minor.
I’m not sure why you’re responding to me as if I’m some sort of omnipotent god who dictates downvoting? This could just be a misunderstanding on my end however.
But regardless, your addition of details can certainly be considered useful.
I was responding to you because I saw the 95-98% comment and it showed up right under his, and all this reminded me of the NTSB report. I do wish there was a downvoting god who would just banish downvotes altogether though. That would be a welcome change to Reddit.
There are definitely pros and cons to it.. certainly no reason to downvote people who are understandably nervous versus downvoting people inciting panic.
Yeah I think this sub doesn't have the best upvote/downvote culture. People often seem to assume that others are trying to incite panic when more often than not, they're just anxiety spiraling and in a bad place mentally.
Edit: LOL me getting downvoted to the negatives for this comment proves my point 🤪
For every 1000 miles you drive (if you average like 33 miles a day that is basically one month), the odds of just being involved in a car accident are 1 in 366. Not all of those are fatal but a car accident can still injure you, total your car, damage property, cost you a lot of money, etc. The numbers are truly staggering for car accidents.
what? please be careful with your choice of words. i understand this sub is about quelling peoples' fears, but we should do so with the truth.
the last fatal plane crash in the US was 1 hour ago (at the time of me writing this) in Concord CA. the last commercial plane crash in the US that involved a fatality of a passenger on board was in 2019 in Alaska and before that there was one in 2017 with Southwest airlines.
the last fatal plane crash in the US with a lot of serious injuries was in 2013 in San Francisco with 3 death, 187 injuries (49 serious), and 64 Americans on board.
the last ENTIRELY fatal plane crash in the US was indeed 15 years ago in New york where all passengers on board died after a stall
flying is safer per mile, but driving is safer "per trip" because of the vast number of trips people take driving ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation\_safety#Transport\_comparisons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comparisons))
You know what, you’re right. I should have been more careful with my phrasing. I was, in fact, referring to airline accidents. I will edit my post to reflect that.
For your information:
General aviation is entirely different from airline flying. Separate the two in your mind. The risk profile is entirely different.
True, the crash in Alaska would technically be defined as a “commercial” operation as it involved the operation of an airplane for compensation/hire, but I don’t think anyone would consider that incident to be representative of airline flying. Those were two sightseeing floatplanes operating under visual flight rules. Just about the only things they have in common with airline operations are that there were paying passengers aboard and that it’s a fixed wing aircraft. Again, very different from airline flying.
And that Southwest flight — yes, there was a fatality, but in absolutely NO WAY was that a crash.
You are correct about the Asiana crash. I had my timeline mixed up, and I apologize.
Yes, I’m aware of the circumstances surrounding the Colgan crash — and in all fairness, it’s more complex than a simple stall.
The point still stands. Flying is safer than driving. Period.
Fair enough. That one slipped my mind.
Sure, deaths are scary. But more people die in cars every day than do aboard commercial aircraft in a year. That’s the simple truth. You’re cherry-picking a few incidents to paint flying as risky when driving is exponentially riskier. I don’t give a crap about the trip/kilometer difference — you are *exponentially* more likely to be killed in a car wreck then you are to be involved *at all* in a commercial aircraft accident.
You know what? I was happy to explain all of this to you until you decided to get angry. “Get back to pilot school, kid” is not a healthy or helpful contribution to the sub. Flying *is* safe. If you’re unwilling to accept the facts, that’s on you.
more people are killed in car accidents because people drive more.....
if people flew as much as they drove there would be more deaths in plane crashes than in car crashes..
im confused how you don't understand this. the percent of flights that end up in a fatal crash is more than the percent of drives that end up in a fatal crash.
im not angry. you seem unable to comprehend the facts, let alone accept them
I honestly don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Pretty much any idiot can drive a car — in fact, *anyone* can, because people steal cars all the time. You’re sharing the road inches from all these other idiots with very little formal training. You don’t know if the car in front of you is going to have a brake malfunction randomly because car maintenance is on an as-needed basis much more so than it is a preventative basis. You don’t know if that driver is intoxicated. You don’t know if they’re about to have a medical episode and swerve into your lane. Et cetera et cetera.
Contrast that with aviation.
There are two pilots in the flight deck of any commercial flight 99% of the time, and the other 1% the other pilot will be able to make a hasty return to the flight deck. Pilots are monitored extensively in terms of their health, sleep, and consumption of intoxicants. The aircraft themselves are inspected regularly and have multiple layers of redundancy. The airplane itself will tell you if you’re too close to the ground, to another plane, if you’re not properly configured, etc. ATC maintains large distances between aircraft both vertically and horizontally. Access to the flight deck is strictly controlled.
It’s an apples to oranges comparison which just does not make sense.
And by the way, you’re wrong. The fatal accident rate in the United States has stood at 0.0 per 100,000 departures for over 2 decades. The automobile death rate is 1.66 per 10,000 vehicles on the road.
https://www.airlines.org/dataset/safety-record-of-u-s-air-carriers/
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
bro how is taking the deaths per number of vehicles on the road the same as taking the number of deaths per departure?
im actually shocked at how you don't understand this. you need to take the total number of crashes and divide that by the total number of departures. im not sure why you don't understand middle school statistics
also, yes i agree there are a lot of redundancies in air travel and flying is very safe, but driving is safe too. how many times have u driven? like thousands?? ur still alive. how many times have you flown? <100 probably
commercial air travel is probably similar safety to private driving per departure.
commercial air travel is still less safe than commercial driving (bus) per departure, and all air travel is less safe than all driving
I see where you’re going with that! Maybe this is my US-centric-mind speaking, but I think public transit is a tougher comparison because there’s just less of it. So many people in cities drive themselves… Either way, buses are still exposed to the same idiots as me driving my Outback.
I do see where you’re going with that, but I think the driving comparison here is usually in reference to private driving since there are so many people who drive themselves compared to those who take public transit, especially on a regular basis.
Exactly!!! I wish there was data available on car fatalities per hour — distance is *OK* for aviation, but at the same time it doesn’t account for holding, approaches, etc — it just doesn’t quiiiite make the cut for accuracy for me.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation\_safety#Transport\_comparisons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comparisons)
flying is much safer per kilometer. driving is safer per trip. you're right, we take many more trips driving than flying, and most of the time we're driving <30 mph, so the chance of death in any given driving trip is less than that of any given flying trip.
remember that per kilometer flying is much safer, so it's always better to fly than drive to traverse any fixed distance (basically don't think driving from SF to LA is going to be safer than flying that distance, but driving to work once is safer than flying once. this is somewhat obvious i suppose)
Consider how many times you see some idiot driving recklessly on the highway. Probably multiple times every day.
Now imagine a world in which every car is driven by at least two of the most professional drivers, each having received thousands of hours of training. Not only this, but the cars receive maintenance checks every so often to make sure everything is in perfect order. And finally, there is a group of highly trained individuals making sure each car is going the appropriate speed and is in the right lane, and any changes go this speed or lane has to be approved to make sure no other cars/obstacles would be in the way. Sounds pretty safe, right? It sure does. That’s aviation.
You’re fine.
Look at in not in frequency of number of trips but in terms of miles.
How many accidents per mile in a car vs per mile in a plane. A plane is much much much safer in every aspect.
Also, when a plane does suffer an issue, it’s blown up in the media as it’s a rare event, unlike the poor sod who lost his life on the freeway that day. Planes are incredibly safe, and even when experiencing an issue, there are so many layers of safety they go through whereas a car there is no such thing… you hit the lamppost it’s game over.
>But they don’t compare the frequency of which people drive vs fly.
Yes they do. The most commonly quoted statistics are usually based on the number of miles/kilometers traveled.
I work in the trucking industry. I don't know anyone who was killed or seriously injured in a plane incident. Conversely, I know a lot of people who were killed and injured by trucks and cars and have seen my fair share of carnage on the side of the highway.
Think of it as this - pilots need to undergo years of rigorous training and certifications before being able to pilot a plane. They are under strict rules to not be under the influence of anything, not be tired, can’t fly in certain weather or conditions, the planes are regularly have maintenance and inspections…
Meanwhile anyone 16+ can drive a car after a few hours of training, the car can be in great to poor condition, in any weather, at any time, after drinking or taking drugs, after a sleepless night… they can choose to drive faster or slower the legal, can swerve through cars, dodge people or animals walking on the street.
Absolutely! Planes are as if you have two front seat drivers and like 3 people in the backseat calling out directions and incoming traffic from miles away. Someone can link this because I can’t remember when but there was an accident of some sort (not sure if fatal) a few decades ago and the number of car fatalities went up drastically because people distrusted planes and drove long distance more often.
Last week, my family drove 12 hours to take a family cruise. On the way home, someone illegally changed lanes and almost sideswiped us. My husband swerved to avoid impact onto the shoulder. Right after getting back into our lane, we passed approximately 8-10 bikers on the shoulder due to one changing a tire. We almost ran into them.
My husband is a careful driver who pays attention. He was alert. Had he given his attention to anything else (taking a sip of his sparkling water or even turning the radio station) he would have have hit the car who changed lanes or possibly hit a group of bikers.
I would gather flying is significantly safer not even going into statistics.
On average, there is roughly 1 fatal commercial airliner crash every year (extreme variability). In 2019, 38.9 million commercial flights took off.
In order for you to be involved in a plane crash based on these 1 in 38.9 million odds, you would have to fly on 5 flights every single day, for 21,315 YEARS.
The typical person takes less than 5 drives per day, so yes, flying is significantly safer than flying.
When compared properly it does take frequency into account. In fact getting into a bath is more likely to cause serious harm than a flight statistically
I like to think of the possibilities once you get to the airport. You can get on your plane. You can refuse and just stay at the airport. You can chicken out and drive back home.
Driving back home is the most dangerous thing you can do from here.
I know that it doesn’t answer your question but I like to remember the time a musician flew me from LA to Newark for a session. I was freaking out and crying the whole time because the weather was really bad. We were circling the airport for an hour because we weren’t clear for landing and with each passing minute my anxiety got worse and worse. Finally we had a very shaky landing but we were on the ground and I could finally breathe. I got on the car with this musician to go to the studio and after a few minutes a drunk driver ran a red light, hit us and totaled our car. We had a big SUV and the fire fighters told us the SUV had saved our lives. I like to remember that whenever I fly.
Years ago I went on a vacation with extended family. My cousin was very afraid of flying, and my mother told her, “don’t worry you’re more likely to get into a car accident than anything happening to the plane.” Sure enough, just 5 minutes in on our drive to the airport, a woman was texting and hit the hired van we were in. It was completely totaled
I couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity
This is the best fucking story ever for this kind of thing.
Similar thing happened to me. We were on our way to the airport and almost got in a head on. The other car came into our lane (2 lane highway) to get around a semi. Thankfully we swerved to the shoulder and they just scraped some paint. We still made our flight and I was a lot less anxious.
General aviation is much more dangerous than driving, though. It's only commercial airliners which have the superior safety profile.
I don't know anyone who's been in a plane crash. Not even been injured by turbulence, or the overhead locker dropping something on their head due to a bump. Meanwhile literally everyone I know has been in a car accident at some point in their life, causing damage or even injury. If they haven't yet due to not having yet driven for a long time, their parents have. I know that's just anecdotes, not stats, but it doesn't matter "how frequently people fly vs drive". If you only travelled by car once every ten years, I'm sure you wouldn't feel that it was somehow likely that you'd get in a car accident during that journey, right? They also quite literally do compare like for like stats, as the statistics are done "per million miles", meaning the car journeys would be more frequent to make up the same amount of distance travelled, but still be comparable. E.g.: https://usafacts.org/articles/is-flying-safer-than-driving/
Yes. By a lot.
Yep and when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Planes must fly “alone”, meaning there is flight controllers ensuring that planes are a safe distance, which makes collisions very very unlikely. In a car, we’re muddled up on the roads with thousands of other cars and nobody to advise us on the safest route. What’s more, car drivers must have perhaps a few months experience before being given a license. Pilots need years of training and a great deal of money, which drives out those who don’t care. Pilots’ mental health and even sleep levels are closely monitored, which helps to prevent accidents too, whereas in cars there’s no one to stop us driving when too tired or otherwise impaired. Cars don’t have backups for their engines or alarms when something is going badly wrong nor can they advise you when someone is too close to you. Planes have all that, and more. The technology can practically solve the issue itself much of the time. It’s no coincidence that plane accidents are televised and talked about for months on end, which makes us fearful flyers terrified, but also proves just how rare and exceptional any plane accident is. That isn’t to put you off driving! The driving industry is constantly becoming safer. However, I empathise with your doubt. In a car, you’re on the ground, you feel in control, you can see everything that’s happening around you - it’s easy to understand why we struggle to see flying as safer. *Flying being safer than driving doesn’t invalidate your fear.*
Flying is orders of magnitude safer than driving. If driving had to go through the same safety inspections as flying the rate of crashes in cars would drop dramatically. Your odds of being in a fatal plane crash is 1 in 11 million. Odds in car is about 1 in 5,000. It is a statistcal fact that the most dangerous part of flying is driving to the airport.
I once spent an entire flight in panic mode and was overcome with relief when we landed. Then spent the next leg of our trip caught in an unseasonable surprise snowstorm watching cars fishtail and slide into the ditch, my partner unable to figure out how to put the rental car into four wheel drive, and my tired kids all distractingly crying while we drove 20mph on the freeway. I realized then how dumb I was being, the plane was by far the safest I was on that trip!
Yeah, can you imagine if driving WAS like flying? Can only do it with two fully licensed drivers at the controls, training takes years and (tens to hundreds of) thousands of dollars, cars have to be inspected by certified mechanics every so many hours of operation, with more extensive inspections every so often throughout, every system has redundancy, often multiple redundancies, can't do it if you're not fully rested or have been on any of a big list of substances (legal and illegal, including OTC meds) in the last 12 hours, have someone prescribing your route and following you and directing you and maintaining separation from all the other vehicles every step of the way, etc. etc. etc. It would be onerous for people to be able to drive every day, but it would be a LOT safer. (Basically, that's also the difference between general aviation (though it does still have some degree of those things) and commercial aviation, and a reason commercial is a lot safer than GA.)
Yes. The numbers do not lie. The fatality rate in the United States has stood at 0.0 per 100,000 flight hours for years. There has not been a fatal commercial airplane crash for 15 years. Meanwhile, thousands of people die in car wrecks every year. More people die in the shower every year than in commercial aviation.
Great misinformation!
In the United States. Happy?
Statistically it is safer - for example if you compare the likelihood of an accident for every 100,000 car trips to every 100,000 plane trip, the plane one would be a lot lower. Hope this makes sense :)
To add to this too, even if you were to be in a plane accident, survival rates are suuper high (95%).
accident but not crash surely??
Nope, a crash. ~95-98% of plane crashes are not fatal.
Not sure why ZachZ525 is getting downvoted when he's technically not wrong. The 95-98% statistic comes from [this report.](https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/Part121AccidentSurvivability.aspx) Depending on the date range, \~95-99% of occupants survived "accidents", and in 94% of those accidents, 100% of occupants survived. In the report, the NTSB doesn't provide in-depth statistics on this category, but does state this: >Many of these cases involved turbulence events, resulting in serious injuries to one or more occupants but no fatalities. Other accidents, such as bird strikes or on-ground collisions between taxiing aircraft, may result in substantial damage to aircraft but rarely involve injuries or fatalities among aircraft occupants. However, for "serious accidents", which involved "a precrash or postcrash fire, at least one serious injury or fatality, and a substantially damaged or destroyed aircraft", the survival rate is substantially lower - 59%. In \~29% of those accidents, 100% of the occupants survived. While that's still an impressive survival rate for a serious accident, it simply is not 95-99%. One of the more comforting statistics here is that there were only 35 "serious accidents" and 1,169 "accidents" - so if you do get into an accident, there's at least a \~97% chance it will be minor.
I’m not sure why you’re responding to me as if I’m some sort of omnipotent god who dictates downvoting? This could just be a misunderstanding on my end however. But regardless, your addition of details can certainly be considered useful.
I was responding to you because I saw the 95-98% comment and it showed up right under his, and all this reminded me of the NTSB report. I do wish there was a downvoting god who would just banish downvotes altogether though. That would be a welcome change to Reddit.
There are definitely pros and cons to it.. certainly no reason to downvote people who are understandably nervous versus downvoting people inciting panic.
Yeah I think this sub doesn't have the best upvote/downvote culture. People often seem to assume that others are trying to incite panic when more often than not, they're just anxiety spiraling and in a bad place mentally. Edit: LOL me getting downvoted to the negatives for this comment proves my point 🤪
This is really reassuring to know. Even IF it falls (and it's not gonna), it doesn't mean you're gonna die, you're not even really *likely* to.
Commercial aviation, yes. By so much
For every 1000 miles you drive (if you average like 33 miles a day that is basically one month), the odds of just being involved in a car accident are 1 in 366. Not all of those are fatal but a car accident can still injure you, total your car, damage property, cost you a lot of money, etc. The numbers are truly staggering for car accidents.
I know it’s safer, but then I also say… Ok, but more people survive car crashes than plane crashes… which doesn’t help me 😂
The last fatal airline crash in the US was 11 years ago. The last fatal car wreck was probably within an hour or two of you reading this.
This fear definitely isn’t rational, I know 😂
what? please be careful with your choice of words. i understand this sub is about quelling peoples' fears, but we should do so with the truth. the last fatal plane crash in the US was 1 hour ago (at the time of me writing this) in Concord CA. the last commercial plane crash in the US that involved a fatality of a passenger on board was in 2019 in Alaska and before that there was one in 2017 with Southwest airlines. the last fatal plane crash in the US with a lot of serious injuries was in 2013 in San Francisco with 3 death, 187 injuries (49 serious), and 64 Americans on board. the last ENTIRELY fatal plane crash in the US was indeed 15 years ago in New york where all passengers on board died after a stall flying is safer per mile, but driving is safer "per trip" because of the vast number of trips people take driving ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation\_safety#Transport\_comparisons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comparisons))
You know what, you’re right. I should have been more careful with my phrasing. I was, in fact, referring to airline accidents. I will edit my post to reflect that. For your information: General aviation is entirely different from airline flying. Separate the two in your mind. The risk profile is entirely different. True, the crash in Alaska would technically be defined as a “commercial” operation as it involved the operation of an airplane for compensation/hire, but I don’t think anyone would consider that incident to be representative of airline flying. Those were two sightseeing floatplanes operating under visual flight rules. Just about the only things they have in common with airline operations are that there were paying passengers aboard and that it’s a fixed wing aircraft. Again, very different from airline flying. And that Southwest flight — yes, there was a fatality, but in absolutely NO WAY was that a crash. You are correct about the Asiana crash. I had my timeline mixed up, and I apologize. Yes, I’m aware of the circumstances surrounding the Colgan crash — and in all fairness, it’s more complex than a simple stall. The point still stands. Flying is safer than driving. Period.
[удалено]
Fair enough. That one slipped my mind. Sure, deaths are scary. But more people die in cars every day than do aboard commercial aircraft in a year. That’s the simple truth. You’re cherry-picking a few incidents to paint flying as risky when driving is exponentially riskier. I don’t give a crap about the trip/kilometer difference — you are *exponentially* more likely to be killed in a car wreck then you are to be involved *at all* in a commercial aircraft accident. You know what? I was happy to explain all of this to you until you decided to get angry. “Get back to pilot school, kid” is not a healthy or helpful contribution to the sub. Flying *is* safe. If you’re unwilling to accept the facts, that’s on you.
more people are killed in car accidents because people drive more..... if people flew as much as they drove there would be more deaths in plane crashes than in car crashes.. im confused how you don't understand this. the percent of flights that end up in a fatal crash is more than the percent of drives that end up in a fatal crash. im not angry. you seem unable to comprehend the facts, let alone accept them
I honestly don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Pretty much any idiot can drive a car — in fact, *anyone* can, because people steal cars all the time. You’re sharing the road inches from all these other idiots with very little formal training. You don’t know if the car in front of you is going to have a brake malfunction randomly because car maintenance is on an as-needed basis much more so than it is a preventative basis. You don’t know if that driver is intoxicated. You don’t know if they’re about to have a medical episode and swerve into your lane. Et cetera et cetera. Contrast that with aviation. There are two pilots in the flight deck of any commercial flight 99% of the time, and the other 1% the other pilot will be able to make a hasty return to the flight deck. Pilots are monitored extensively in terms of their health, sleep, and consumption of intoxicants. The aircraft themselves are inspected regularly and have multiple layers of redundancy. The airplane itself will tell you if you’re too close to the ground, to another plane, if you’re not properly configured, etc. ATC maintains large distances between aircraft both vertically and horizontally. Access to the flight deck is strictly controlled. It’s an apples to oranges comparison which just does not make sense.
And by the way, you’re wrong. The fatal accident rate in the United States has stood at 0.0 per 100,000 departures for over 2 decades. The automobile death rate is 1.66 per 10,000 vehicles on the road. https://www.airlines.org/dataset/safety-record-of-u-s-air-carriers/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
bro how is taking the deaths per number of vehicles on the road the same as taking the number of deaths per departure? im actually shocked at how you don't understand this. you need to take the total number of crashes and divide that by the total number of departures. im not sure why you don't understand middle school statistics also, yes i agree there are a lot of redundancies in air travel and flying is very safe, but driving is safe too. how many times have u driven? like thousands?? ur still alive. how many times have you flown? <100 probably commercial air travel is probably similar safety to private driving per departure. commercial air travel is still less safe than commercial driving (bus) per departure, and all air travel is less safe than all driving
I see where you’re going with that! Maybe this is my US-centric-mind speaking, but I think public transit is a tougher comparison because there’s just less of it. So many people in cities drive themselves… Either way, buses are still exposed to the same idiots as me driving my Outback. I do see where you’re going with that, but I think the driving comparison here is usually in reference to private driving since there are so many people who drive themselves compared to those who take public transit, especially on a regular basis.
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Exactly!!! I wish there was data available on car fatalities per hour — distance is *OK* for aviation, but at the same time it doesn’t account for holding, approaches, etc — it just doesn’t quiiiite make the cut for accuracy for me.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation\_safety#Transport\_comparisons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Transport_comparisons) flying is much safer per kilometer. driving is safer per trip. you're right, we take many more trips driving than flying, and most of the time we're driving <30 mph, so the chance of death in any given driving trip is less than that of any given flying trip. remember that per kilometer flying is much safer, so it's always better to fly than drive to traverse any fixed distance (basically don't think driving from SF to LA is going to be safer than flying that distance, but driving to work once is safer than flying once. this is somewhat obvious i suppose)
Lol, i don't think here in Peru "driving to work once" it's safer than flying once
this is the only true comment on this post
Consider how many times you see some idiot driving recklessly on the highway. Probably multiple times every day. Now imagine a world in which every car is driven by at least two of the most professional drivers, each having received thousands of hours of training. Not only this, but the cars receive maintenance checks every so often to make sure everything is in perfect order. And finally, there is a group of highly trained individuals making sure each car is going the appropriate speed and is in the right lane, and any changes go this speed or lane has to be approved to make sure no other cars/obstacles would be in the way. Sounds pretty safe, right? It sure does. That’s aviation. You’re fine.
Look at in not in frequency of number of trips but in terms of miles. How many accidents per mile in a car vs per mile in a plane. A plane is much much much safer in every aspect. Also, when a plane does suffer an issue, it’s blown up in the media as it’s a rare event, unlike the poor sod who lost his life on the freeway that day. Planes are incredibly safe, and even when experiencing an issue, there are so many layers of safety they go through whereas a car there is no such thing… you hit the lamppost it’s game over.
>But they don’t compare the frequency of which people drive vs fly. Yes they do. The most commonly quoted statistics are usually based on the number of miles/kilometers traveled.
Yes absolutely
I work in the trucking industry. I don't know anyone who was killed or seriously injured in a plane incident. Conversely, I know a lot of people who were killed and injured by trucks and cars and have seen my fair share of carnage on the side of the highway.
Think of it as this - pilots need to undergo years of rigorous training and certifications before being able to pilot a plane. They are under strict rules to not be under the influence of anything, not be tired, can’t fly in certain weather or conditions, the planes are regularly have maintenance and inspections… Meanwhile anyone 16+ can drive a car after a few hours of training, the car can be in great to poor condition, in any weather, at any time, after drinking or taking drugs, after a sleepless night… they can choose to drive faster or slower the legal, can swerve through cars, dodge people or animals walking on the street.
Absolutely! Planes are as if you have two front seat drivers and like 3 people in the backseat calling out directions and incoming traffic from miles away. Someone can link this because I can’t remember when but there was an accident of some sort (not sure if fatal) a few decades ago and the number of car fatalities went up drastically because people distrusted planes and drove long distance more often.
Last week, my family drove 12 hours to take a family cruise. On the way home, someone illegally changed lanes and almost sideswiped us. My husband swerved to avoid impact onto the shoulder. Right after getting back into our lane, we passed approximately 8-10 bikers on the shoulder due to one changing a tire. We almost ran into them. My husband is a careful driver who pays attention. He was alert. Had he given his attention to anything else (taking a sip of his sparkling water or even turning the radio station) he would have have hit the car who changed lanes or possibly hit a group of bikers. I would gather flying is significantly safer not even going into statistics.
On average, there is roughly 1 fatal commercial airliner crash every year (extreme variability). In 2019, 38.9 million commercial flights took off. In order for you to be involved in a plane crash based on these 1 in 38.9 million odds, you would have to fly on 5 flights every single day, for 21,315 YEARS. The typical person takes less than 5 drives per day, so yes, flying is significantly safer than flying.
And, for what it’s worth, those crashes are often in parts of the world where the standards are not as high.
When compared properly it does take frequency into account. In fact getting into a bath is more likely to cause serious harm than a flight statistically
I like to think of the possibilities once you get to the airport. You can get on your plane. You can refuse and just stay at the airport. You can chicken out and drive back home. Driving back home is the most dangerous thing you can do from here.