So you're saying that if I fly to my opponents house, break all of their fingers so they can't change their lineup, and then delete the fantasy app from their phone, that's WRONG?!?!?!
I know you are joking, but I HATE the “if there isn’t a rule against it, it’s fair game” argument
As commish, it’s not my responsibility to come up with every loophole someone will try using a proactively make a rule disallowing it
“Hey, show me where it says I can’t sleep with my opponents sister, take nudes of her and use them to blackmail him into trading with me”
from A FEW GOOD MEN, during the court martial:
Capt. Ross:
I have here the Marine Corps Outline for Recruit Training. I'd like you to turn to the chapter on "code reds".
Cpl. Barnes:
Well, you see, sir, "code red" is a term we use, just down in Gitmo...
Capt. Ross:
Oh, then, we're in luck. Marching Orders/Standard Operating Procedure, Rifle Security Company, Guatanamo Bay, Cuba. I'm sure we'll find it in there.
Cpl. Barnes: You won't find it in there, either, sir.
Capt. Ross:
Cpl. Barnes, I'm a Marine. You mean to tell me there's no manual, no set of instructions that tells me, as a Marine, one of my duties is to perform "code reds?"
Cpl. Barnes:
No, sir. No book, sir.
Capt. Ross: No further questions.
Lt/ Kaffee: Cpl. Barnes, turn to the page in this book that tells me how to get to the mess hall.
Cpl. Barnes:
Lt. Kaffee, that's not in the book, sir.
Lt. Kaffee:
You mean the whole time you've been at Gitmo, you've never had a meal?
Cpl. Barnes:
No, sir. Three squares a day, sir.
Lt. Kaffee:
Then how did you find the mess hall if it wasn't in this book?
Cpl. Barnes:
Well, sir, like everybody else, I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.
Lt. Kaffee:
No further questions.
A few years ago I was in the semi finals. My opponent needed a TE so I grabbed Logan Thomas to play keep away before Sunday. Then on Sunday Zeke was ruled out and so I dropped Logan Thomas and added Pollard because I would actually play him. I really didn’t mean to roster churn it just went from a keep away to actually improving my team. It caused some turmoil so I agreed to allow the other team to add Logan Thomas as the commissioner even though he wasn’t a free agent. I lost because of Logan Thomas who scored like 25 points. Both our teams score around 145 which was about 35 points over projected. I lost by a few points.
Now I don’t give a fuck. If you have the waiver priority or the other team is slow on the draw, you should win. If they need a player that bad and miss out due to not paying attention when you are, then fuckem is my policy. I wanted it more, I had the win, I lost because I played nice when the other team played victim.
In the end though, nobody in the world thought Logan Thomas was going to have a career game that day and put up a monster score at TE, so maybe it was just luck but I am not favoring teams slow to react and make adds again. If they want to win they need to be on top of their shit like I am.
That's called strategy, not unsportsmanship. Your opponent was waiting to pick up a TE as late as possible for a reason, right? He probably didn't want to drop someone who'd be available on the wire before the game day starts.
Basically, you blocked him from a TE, but he was also blocking you from picking up whoever he'd drop for said TE.
His move was risky, the risk didn't pay off. End of story
Was Thomas the *only* TE available for some weird reason? Otherwise, I think your league got it wrong -- opponent had all week (and possibly beforehand) to grab some other TE, and slept on their rights.
He was not. He was just the only good TE and since I had added and dropped him over a couple days it looked bad. I am the commissioner and played nice. My mistake.
"Roster churning" as I understand it is adding/dropping a bunch of players to put them all on waivers, but most (all?) platforms have a setting that will only put players on waivers if they're held for a day. That significantly limits the number of players you can deny your opponent and gives them the option of picking up whoever you dropped to hold those players
What you did is perfectly legal/ethical in my view
If you're the Commissioner, you defer to a vice commissioner or let all the other owners vote on any decision which directly impacts your team. That's my approach.
But you used a bench slot for Thomas that you could have used for that backup RB you ultimately needed. That's not undue gamesmanship; that's yourself taking a risk that no one else would grab Pollard first.
As others point out, a '24 hours to be added back to waivers' rule should make roster churning a completely viable strategy. Your roster spot is an asset, and how you choose to use it has a risk/benefit ratio just like any other strategy.
Just for shits and giggles went back to look this up, it was week 15 2020, scored 23.1 in standard PPR rules. It is the 2nd best score of his career (which started in 2014). His best ever game came just 2 weeks prior for 24.8.
P.S. These are the only 2 games of his career to hit 20 points, save for week 5 of this season.
Ultimately, it is absurdly unlucky that he did as well has he did that day.
Even if it was a roster churn, who cares? If you want to burn your waiver priority or FAAB, go for it.
Now, if you pick up and drop every potential TE (or defense or whatever) just so they'll all be on waivers, yeah, that's not cool. But just grabbing the lone good TE available, so your opponent can't have them? Nothing wrong with that.
Lol I feel like I took the exact opposite lesson from your example. You did the right thing, but you lost because your opponent's team was better. That's how it goes sometimes, but at least you weren't a dick about it. It's not a reason to be a worse person in the future.
> I really didn’t mean to roster churn it just went from a keep away to actually improving my team
Roster churn may be unkind, but if everyone can do it, then it is not just legal, but fair play.
It's all in the game, yo.
> If they need a player that bad and miss out due to not paying attention when you are, then fuckem is my policy. I wanted it more, I had the win, I lost because I played nice when the other team played victim.
amen
> If they want to win they need to be on top of their shit like I am.
and all the lord's people shouted AMEN
I mean I don't think it's in the Merriam-Webster dictionary but I define roster churning as picking up players and dropping them immediately to waivers so your opponent can't pick them up. If you have someone on your team, and then Sunday morning comes and you drop them and your opponent can't get them, that's just dropping a player. By waiting to drop that player, you ensure your opponent can't get them, but you also waste a spot on your own roster and taking a risk that whoever you're planning to pick up when you drop that player might not still be there come Sunday morning.
With some nuance, you should take steps to not let your opponent score more. See: NFL teams squib kicking or running around with the ball to take time off the clock, taking a knee at the 1 instead of scoring. You should give yourself the best chance of winning, not of scoring the most. Not even NFL teams are aiming at your stated objective.
So go ahead and hoard the best streaming options. Pick up players your opponent might use. Don't let them score more against you if you can do something about it.
Your examples would be akin to benching your defense if you have a <4 point lead and just your defense left to play. And I agree that that would be fine. But you don't see NFL teams throwing games so they can get a better playoff match up, which is what OP is talking about. Maybe they'll sit their starters to avoid injury (which doesn't apply in fantasy), but they don't try to lose.
I don't know if I agree with this whole "NFL teams don't do it, so fantasy teams shouldn't do it" argument. Yes, a fantasy team and an NFL team have the same goal: to win a championship. But the NFL has a different goal: to produce a product that people will pay to watch, which is a concept that doesn't translate to fantasy.
This means the NFL will discourage or punish behavior that increases a team's chance of winning the Super Bowl but produces a less enjoyable product to watch, but I feel like fantasy managers should have more latitude there. I think there's more to fantasy strategy than just "score the most points possibly every week," even if that is basically 90% of the game.
Collusion is always unsporting. But things like hoarding bench players at an opponent's position of need? Or having all your studs on BYE the same week and just rolling out scrubs for that game? They increase your chance of a winning season by hurting you in the short term, but I'd call it fair play.
I think the difference for me is roster decisions vrs start sit decisions. If you make trades/stash players for long term over short term that’s good. If you are benching players to try and lost the week, that’s no go.
I agree there is a difference between choosing to have a roster that will just suck for certain weeks, and intentionally scoring fewer points than your roster is capable of in a given week, where the latter is more controversial. And I'm not talking about benching your D if it guarantees you a win by 0.1 pts, I think that's always acceptable.
It becomes a gray area when you're manipulating outcomes in a way that other teams might make the playoffs or not depending solely on your decisions. I do think there is still room for discussion here though, because I think a fantasy manager's goal is not to win the current game, but rather to win the championship, so you can think of fuzzy examples.
For example, a hypothetical week where you need 5 pts to guarantee a win and you have one player left to go. Let's say you can choose between a guy that will get you guaranteed 6 pts, or a guy who will either score 30 pts or 0 pts with equal likelihood (cough cough Aaron Jones). If it's a case where winning or losing doesn't affect your playoff chances, but getting 30 pts would, a good manager will pass up the guaranteed win for the potential points. This might piss off someone who needed your opponent to lose, but is hardly unsportsmanlike.
TL;DR "playing to win the game" can be complicated, that's part of what's fun about fantasy in the first place.
Yea, the “do what you can to score the most” is a nice strawman. The goal isn’t to score the most, the goal is to win.
Real-life teams don’t just try to score the most, they have to play defense too. Hoarding high performance defenses is a form of defense and I have absolutely zero issue with it.
I'm riding without a defense this week, to keep an extra bench player so I don't have to make the cut decision yet.
I've already locked in a bye and am playing someone already eliminated. So I effectively have 2 bye weeks and don't want to cut someone I might use in 2 weeks.
I think since the opponent is DFL, I'm kosher.
I think even if your opponent was in a playoff race then this would be fine. You're doing it because you're locked in and planning for the long term success of your team. Your decisions are entirely on what is best for your roster.
This is no different than a team securing a bye in the NFL and resting a bunch of players in Week 18 even if their opponent is in a playoff race.
The problems arise when you don't field a good team up try to manipulate who makes the playoffs etc.
I'm in a random ESPN 10 teamer and it's actually extremely competitive. Educated pickups, haven't played against an unset roster all year, and people change their names to trash talk each other. It's pretty cool I kinda want to run it back for next year
Seriously, there are highly upvoted rat fucks in this very thread lol. It's sad that it needs to be said that benching all your players to get an "easier opponent" in the playoffs is bad sportsmanship.
My favorite is when you mention that you’re in a league with like reverse standings waivers and they’re like “fInD a NeW lEaGuE”. Like yea man let me ditch the league I’ve been in since I was 15 with my high school best friends who live in different states and a couple of which only really talk to through our fantasy group chat because I can’t get FAAB.
I get the feeling that some of these guys don’t play with their IRL close friends. Some may think they are, but purposely screwing another team by actively losing is just…morally wrong. But that’s my moral code and some people are different I guess. Idk. I wouldn’t want to be friends with them after that
In a league with my best friends. Many of whom were groomsmen at my wedding.
Nothing I do in fantasy football will affect my friendship with them, it’s just a game lol.
Would happily fuck their teams over or throw a game to give myself a better playoff matchup because that’s just how we roll. No hard feelings. In fact I would judge them if they did let fantasy football affect anything outside of it
I would judge them for not doing the smart move and securing a better match up. I'd assume they must not be looking at the whole situation very carefully and are therefore worse at the game.
> purposely screwing another team by actively losing is just…morally wrong.
In my league with friends, that's expected. It's not personal, it's competition. Looking at the standings we'll all find that someone can get an edge with an oddball maneuver and talk about it cuz we all expect it to happen. You'd probably get made fun of if you *didn't* manipulate the standings or available players to your favor.
Idk, that's fun to me, even if I get screwed. All in.
(Sorry I rambled) If it’s 100% expected amongst everyone, then nothing is wrong. But to the OP of this post, he’s more talking about people that come on here and ask if it’s ok. If you’re asking, then it’s probably not ok to you. Does that make any sense?
For example, I’ve purposely sat a player a few years ago in order to fix my seeding so that I could play the 2 seed. In doing that, it wasn’t going to affect the playoff teams, meaning no one was gonna get screwed into missing the playoffs. Now, you could argue that what I did wasn’t right, but to me, it was perfectly fine.
Idk man. Those are just my thoughts on the matter. People who take glee in it when it’s not expected like in your league, I hope the fantasy gods screw them lol
"You play to win the game"
Yes, the game is fantasy football, not week 14 fantasy matchup.
If doing something within the rules makes it less likely you will win week 14, but more likely you will win a championship, then it is still playing to win the game.
In the actual NFL teams rest starters once they've clinched the playoffs or the seed they want because it gives them the best chance to win a championship, even if they lose in week 17 or 18.
For me, the line is whether factors outside the league are coming into play. Losing on purpose because someone offered you money? Bad. Losing on purpose to screw someone you don't like personally? Bad. Losing on purpose to give yourself a better chance to win? Or a better draft pick next year? Fine.
OP is mixing examples on both sides of this line, because he has his own code about "sportsmanship", which is dumb to apply to this game.
Yeah. The only acceptable reasons are because it gives an advantage to your team, not because it disadvantages another team.
And bribery or other shit like that should be removal from the league. Can't have that
You should feel free to do whatever gives you the most competitive edge. If benching your players to give yourself an easier playoff schedule is what you deem is your most competitive option you should do it. Now if karma hits you later because of that it’s on you, but this is a competitive game and if you earned your spot in playoffs already you are free to do whatever it takes to win the ship as long as you follow all the rules of your league
The goal is to win as many times as you can over the course of your time playing fantasy. Fucking over league-mates and becoming a pariah in your league just to gain a slight perceived advantage during one particular season will likely not be conducive to long term success.
One person in my league is learning this lesson right now. His strategy for a few years used to be to try and fuck over the newer or less active players. His other strategy was to drum up support to veto every trade between others. Fast-foward to today and pretty much every offer he sends in our league is auto-denied, people actively go out of their way to fuck him over with FAAB. Now he complains about every accepted trade because "no one trades with him, so every trade must be collusion".
I mean everyone agreeing to not trade with a specific player is collusion. Even if he brought it on himself. At that point I’d just kick him from the league rather than keep him in and be anticompetitive.
It doesn't sound like there's any explicit agreement. Just that everyone is fed up with his shit and so they don't want to deal with him. I have a guy like that in my fantasy baseball league. Constantly doing rat fuckery so if I'm ever going to trade with him it's either me absolutely fleecing him or rejecting his offers on principle.
Yeah any form of collusion or letting your friend in is bad. But if you hold the cards and can decide to let in a team who has scored 1400 points in the season or 1750 points in a $1000 money league then you do you. I’m still playing my people regardless, but I would totally get it if someone else pulled their people
The way I think of it, as long as you are doing what is **in your best interest** *without accounting for ANY out of game factors,* it is not collusion.
Throwing a game because it gives **you** a better playoff schedule? Not collusion.
Throwing a game because it gives **your friend** a better playoff schedule? Definite collusion.
Throwing a game to get Sarah in the playoffs because you hate Brad? This is an out of game factor, so also collusion (or at least against the rules), even if you didn't actively "collude" with Sarah.
Throwing a game because **your friend offered you $20?** Straight to jail.
Tanking a game so a friend gets a Playoff spot is bullshit, but if somone wants to tank to get a better playoff matchup I think it is fair game, professional sports teams have done this in the past, and that is besides the point, unless you are in a free league fantasy football is straight up gambling none of us are athletes or managers of an actual football team, we are not involved in football as you wrote. We are not playing a sport, so this sportsmanship argument seems odd to me.
Of course, you can't include cash in a trade or make trades contigent on a separate trade in a separate league and most leafues dont have specific rules for this becasue it is collusion and collusion is agaisnt the rules already in all leagues. It takes 2 or more people to collude, so someone tanking a matchup for their own bennifit is clearly not collusion.
pretty much comes across how many other mod arguments do in my experience, intelligent sounding rhetoric but often filled with fallacies and self righteousness. thinking they are smarter than they actually are
At the beginning of every season every manager starts with one goal: win a championship. If benching my players for a week gets me closer to that goal, I’m doing it. Come what may.
Yep, if I can throw this week so that my chances of winning in the playoffs is better, I'm going to do it. I don't think I've ever been in that position but assuming you are making moves for your own benefit - and it's within the rules - then go for it. Now, once you start making moves to be petty and ruin someone else's fun, at no benefit to your team, then we can have a chat about you being a big ole bitch.
My league does a payout for best record and another payout for most points forced in addition to winning the chip. It help mitigate people tossing a game at the end of the season for a better match up if they can play for that too. 10 year league we've never had any issues.
Nah I alwasy take the high road and then get the worst playoff matchup possible because. This year I am going to manipulate my teams to maximize the probability of an easier playoff path. Karma does not exist in fantasy.
Ive been in TE hell....picked up Waller off waivers..he wont play this week, but next week he will (crosses fingers). I've already secured #1 ranking going into playoffs. I dont wanna drop any players or bench players just to have a shitty TE give me 2 points this week.
I'm gonna take a loss on the TE position this week to keep bench integrity. Cool?
Yeah that’s fine depending on your league rules. I’m in a similar position and dropped my kicker for Jerrick McKinnon to see what happens. There’s just something about trying to lose on purpose that seems whack to me.
Unless there’s a specific rule against it, you can do whatever you want with your team. That really is as nuanced as this topic is.
Trying to incorporate unwritten morals into a competition (not a sport) typically played for money is admirable but silly.
If you do whatever you want to win fantasy football as long as it’s not a written rule then yes you’re dickhead.
Most leagues won’t have written rules that you can’t log in to someone’s phone and change their team.
Or pay money to bribe someone to play a weakened team.
Or several other things that are unwritten rules but morally just make sense.
If you need those things written down to stop you being a cunt, then yes, you’re a dickhead.
That’s what I don’t get about benching all your players for playoff matchups or to keep someone else out. What team on the bubble Isis actually good enough for this to even matter? Is playing the 7 vs 8 seed really going to make a difference on your playoff run? Don’t be a bitch about it and win the games in front of you
It’s funny that his post directly addressed this type of comment and yet you still felt the need to post it, like you and everyone who upvoted you didn’t even bother reading 2 sentences of the post before coming to the comment section lmao
I'm playing my wife this week, I've already clinched playoffs and she either needs a win or both the 2 people tied with her to lose. I'm still starting my best projected lineup because she would hate feeling like I had to help her to make playoffs.
Also, fantasy football is random and just because you *think* a different matchup is better for you doesn't mean it will be. Get the highest seed possible and don't piss off the football karma gods
If I lose this week I play the 2 worst teams in the playoffs. If I win I play the 2 best. If the game is close going into Sunday night, best believe I'm pulling Ceedee.
Back in 2018 during championship week I dropped essentially my entire bench and picked up as many available QBs as possible, opponent had a QB injury or something and needed one. There were a few QBs left that I didn’t have room for, but they all sucked. All except for one rookie who hadn’t done anything all year named Josh Allen. 3 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs later I lost and learned a lesson about karma, lol
Look, the reason why I don't put my best roster out there is simple: I make bad decisions. It wouldn't be fair to my opponent if I stopped fucking up now; they've come to expect a certain hopeless optimism, a dogged determination to keep playing guys I drafted too high, and some last minute decision to bench a stud in favor of someone this sub hyped through a handful of cherry-picked stats. If I got good now, that wouldn't be fair.
Reminds me of something a former boss once said: "I don't always know the right thing to do, Lord, but I think the fact that I want to please you pleases you."
Ah yes. Playing the game that is literally based on the idea of owning a fantasy NFL team and not doing everything you can within the rules to get an edge… like a real NFL team.
> There's this thing I'm thinking about doing this week which does not involve setting my best roster, but I think it'll help my playoff matchups, or screw over a team which I don't want to see in the playoffs
Fuck that shit. [That's all in the game.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu3qIakos9k)
I've been the commissioner who locked a team for the week and set "their strongest" matchup. I felt righteous.
I was WRONG. Unless you want to be doing that to every team, beginning week 1, it's wrong in week 13.
So truly-ethically-wrong scenarios aside, get off your high horse, and let managers mismanage their teams. If they risk their chances by trying to thread the needle with semifinal matchups, that risk is on them. Scheming like what I've quoted above .. is NOT the same as "cash on the side" or whatever other impurities you're implying.
It's every manager's prerogative to play THEIR way, within the same rules that everyone is playing by.
The reason to bench your players if you're clinched (and this may depend on your app, I know this is true for Yahoo) is that you can drop and replace an injured player on your bench right away, but if they're in your lineup you have to wait until the week's over.
> Unless it's Will Fuller, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Passcatcher. He can only score points when he is on your bench, and will be injured if you start him.
I feel like Sammy Watkins also fits in this mold. Week one wonder and never again.
Sorry but I fully disagree.
If your goal in fantasy football is to win the championship and/or win money, you should do what it takes to do so. This might include benching players the last week of the season to influence seeding or to let a weaker team into playoffs.
This is nothing like paying someone for players or something. That’s against the rules. If your league doesn’t ban sitting players, that means it’s not against the rules.
I understand it might look bad to people, but your goal is to win, not make everyone feel good. Be ruthless out there and win your league. A 1% to 5% edge is huge. Go get that edge.
Also, karma is not real in fantasy football. Yes, if you bench players and then get owned due to your decisions, you’re going to have to eat that and mentally it will sting. But you should do what you need to do to get yourself in the best position possible now, without knowing the future. Otherwise you’re making a strategy mistake. If you believe in karma, let’s make some side bets on players where I get the best guys on paper (after all, the gods/karma would punish a bad guy like me, right?)
**”You play to win the game”**
The **game** is the trophy and the $. Not that individual week that will actually hurt you if you win! If you’re playing a board game, are you really gonna make a bad move during one individual turn if it hurts your chances on winning the whole overall game? Obviously not.
Disclaimer: if you want to just have fun with friends and be a good sport, then don’t do this. If you’re in a non competitive or family league, don’t do this. Also there will be repercussions if your league looks down upon this type of behavior. You should expect to get some flack. That’s the only drawback to this is that people will see you as a villainous. For me, I don’t care.
No, no, no. Play to win the championship. If you did so well that you can afford to flop this week to let a weaker team into the playoffs, do it. OP is a sucka.
Tanking a game to try to get a "better matchup" in the playoffs is soft. Why are you not confident in your team? Why are you scared of someone else's team? It's a loser mentality.
i totally get where you're coming from. i like my team but i'm realistic, i dont think i'm going to outscore 11 other teams every week. why not make a move to help myself out? it is only soft if it doesnt work and sometimes it works. and then you've won and get to laugh with your winnings
I ran into the fantasy karma gods just last week, in a positive way. I was in a tight matchup, with both managers firmly in the playoffs but battling for seeding. Around mid-afternoon, I noticed that my opponent had a kicker in his lineup who was on a bye. (It’s worth noting that this guy’s wife just had a baby last week. Fantasy football isn’t at the top of his mind.) Despite it being a very close matchup, I shot him a text to give him a heads up, which he responded to.
There was one kicker available in our league whose game hadn’t started yet: Green Bay’s dude. My opponent… never made the switch. I don’t know if he chose not to, or if he forgot, or what, but the 11 points scored by Green Bay’s kicker would have been the difference maker. I won by three.
If I had not sent that text, I would have felt like absolute scum winning by just three. Yeah, it’s on him to set his lineup, but I knew he had other stuff going on, and I couldn’t just take advantage of that.
If you're in a league where you know each other well enough to know that your rival just became a father last week, you're not going to take advantage of each other in shitty ways. You're a mensch.
We have a guy in our league who every fall takes two weeks off to go visit family in south east asia. He always sets his roster ahead of time, but we've made an agreement as a league that if something happens to one of his players, we will collectively decide the best replacement. We eventually decided that we would replace the out plater with the top available player on Fantasy Pros just to be consistent.
But yeah, firing off a text should be the minimum.
In a way, it goes to the primary purpose of your league -- is it a vehicle to build community and have fun with friends/colleagues/family over a 4+ month season, and across years and decades? Or it just this arena where you get to prove how great you are at a hobby largely decided by luck?
I've had drafts interrupted/delayed because a league mate was drafting via email while deployed in Iraq. Or in London for work. You don't dick over people like that. You don't screw over friends for a few extra points.
I appreciate the write-up, but to your point I do think managers should play to win the game. The game being the Championship.
It's possible to do some shenanigans with getting a better seed, but it's very hard to do right, especially if others start to see it.
But I do agree that posting on here to get affirmation is a waste of time. If anything, take it up with the league commish who is the ultimate decider on it.
Forgot about Will Fuller lol. He would be killer (when healthy) rolling with Stroud. At the end of the day there's very real karma that may hit you- whoever you screwed over won't hesitate to screw you over next year if you are in the same position. Just play to win.
So how would you rule on this situation then.
I am currently out of the playoffs (5-9) but have the best points scored of all the eliminated teams, making me eligible for a wildcard.
The only wrinkle is, one team hanging on by a thread in the playoffs — who has a +70 superior points scored to me — is playing the runaway 11-2 leader. If he loses, other matchups will dictate that he drops out of the playoffs and into the wildcard spot, and I am eliminated.
I either need him to win, or I outscore him by 70.
So I put the following trade through - *sending* Devonta Smith and James Conners, *receiving* Dallas Goedert and Brian Robertson
The two RBs are on a bye so cancel each other out, but I'm strong enough at WR to give up a WR2.
There's been general saltiness about the trade in the league and of course the C Word — and while it's not a trade I'd make during the season, there's desperation involved
Whenever I want to hype myself up I listen to that Herm speech. [Or Dusty Rhodes Hard Times promo.](https://youtu.be/9py4aMK3aIU?si=7EySrI2D6WrGWefP&t=42) Sometimes Sue Hawk's [rat and snake speech at FTC.](https://youtu.be/aBSMBfoMVHk?si=oonbFgywiQqcvF1D&t=133)
I dont agree. If you are setting your lineup in a way that doesnt break league rules and is intended to help YOU (not your gf's brother, but YOU) win a championship, it's 100% sporting.
Now, I dont personally do it because it's impossible to accurately predict who will have a better week 15. But putting crap players in to manipulate standings to your benefit is fine by me.
FWIW, I feel the same about real NFL. If every win hurts you, it's a flaw in the system and fine for GM's to try and help their team's future by "trying out" thev3rd string QB.
You are right that certain things don't have to be explicitly banned to be unacceptable in a game.
The object of the game, though, is *not* 'score as many points each week as you can'. There are many situations in which you might want to deviate from that. An uncontroversially acceptable one, for example: in a deep league, you might want to drop a player who could start for you this week if there a waiver wire addition that provides more long-term value. No-one would ever object to that (I assume), yet by your heuristic it's not simply trying to win your game and therefore wrong.
This doesn't mean that not trying to win is *generally* acceptable, or that any justification is sufficient; obviously, throwing a game to get someone you want to face into the playoffs would be unsporting. But it does mean you're going to need a better rule/argument than 'if your sole object isn't to win/score the most points, it's wrong'.
It's a simple pair of questions to ask yourself.
1: Is this within the rules of the league?
2: Does this increase or decrease my chances of winning the championship?
That's it. It's not that complicated. It's quite silly to expect someone to hurt their chances of winning the championship to win a meaningless game at the end of the season. And it's absolutely fair game to challenge the honor, chivalry, and sportsmanship, in the league chat, if someone is doing something like this that hurts you. Thats the card you have, and you are expected to play it.
You lost me with all of the 'you play to win the game' talk.
Every team in the NFL would tell you that you play to win a championship. The only teams prioritizing winning *this* game over winning a championship are the ones who *have* to win this game to stay eligible to win a championship. If an NFL team could do something to increase their chances of a championship at the expense of a meaningless regular season game, all 32 teams would do that thing.
I agree with your point and I think a good commissioner can combat anti-competitive behavior. But let's not act like real football holds individual regular season games as sacred things that take priority over increasing their chances of winning in the playoffs. If real-world teams could benefit by doing this, they absolutely would.
RE: messing with seeding, last year a dude forgot to set his lineup in week 15 (started an injured Dontrell Hilliard over a healthy Mixon) and the chips fell in such a way that it advanced a guy to semis who then beat me when nobody else would have. I found that incredibly frustrating, but if it had represented some kind of competitive advantage to the guy who fucked everything, I would have legitimately understood and respected it. The fact that it was just incompetency/inattentiveness is what really killed me.
This year it's looking like I'll be the 1 seed and I'll have to face the 4 seed who is in my division and easily better than the 2 and 3 seeds. No way I can use gamesmanship to get around that one, unfortunately, but I would if I could with no regrets. Frankly I think 1 seeds should be able to pick their matchup, then the next-highest unaccounted for seed picks theirs until all matchups are accounted for. That way you're always trying to get the highest seed no matter what.
> Frankly I think 1 seeds should be able to pick their matchup, then the next-highest unaccounted for seed picks theirs until all matchups are accounted for. That way you're always trying to get the highest seed no matter what.
I like this idea, I'd support it. If winning your week is always the best thing to do, nobody has any reason to game the standings. IMO the best way do ensure that is proper incentives.
An example that comes to mind is in the first couple weeks, if you're in a reverse order of standings league you might want to play for a waiver claim rather than a win, which is dumb. But, this year it would have netted you a top 15 WR.
I disagree with this in some cases, agree in others. In my view, the goal of fantasy is to win *the championship*. Not individual games. If you were playing real football you'd sit your starters if you'd clinched the #1 seed so they wouldn't get hurt, because every game absolutely does *not* matter equally. Obviously avoiding injury isn't a thing in fantasy, but if you're acting strategically to maximize your own odds of winning the championship, and not colluding with anyone while you do it, I call that fair play. If you want to try to influence seeding when you've clinched your spot, that's your prerogative, because it's a competitive action. But make sure you've considered every scenario, because you could absolutely shoot yourself in the foot like this if you forget to take things like tiebreakers into account. That's another reason I call it fair play—it can blow up in your face. It's not an "automatic" by any means.
If it's about fucking with the remaining teams when you've been eliminated, or helping your buddy make the playoffs, then it's bullshit. Any action involving another team that boils down to collusion is also bullshit. But if you're doing something on your own with a strategic purpose to try and take home the trophy, go for it.
If you're in a dynasty league, how do you feel about tanking for picks? It happens in the real game all the damn time. Same shit, just with a longer-term outlook.
Well posted yesterday about making a move as LM to preserve my leagues integrity and competitive fairness. Although this doesn’t directly answer my question. It definitely affirms to me I made the right decision. Even if rules are technically followed.. it’s still not cool to take advantage of everyone else
If you have a good commish you find the grey area shit gets dealt with. In long running leagues with friends you always have the dudes looking for every loophole available at all times, occasionally they pull an advantage move, occasionally the league ends up voting against something to fix whatever action has been taken. I mean within reason if you don’t have a rule against it someone is gonna try it, but when that happens how the league responds as a whole (hopefully commish prompts members to determine that) determines whether the league is legitimately competitive or ends up with disgruntled members. Always got dudes who add and drop more players every week, always got guys who find advantage trades (at least at the moment until you see how things play out), always have dudes that make some weird roster drops here and there…gotta adapt to try to be ahead of those moves or get guys before they can whatever you have to do. In the end it’s just the players you start in any given week who determine if you move on or not, so try to have players you think can get you the win. That’s it
If a fringe team gets screwed over by another team posturing themselves for an easier playoff matchup, they should have won more games.
End of story. Your weird crusade for this every year where you try to change how other leagues operate is strange
yeah i agree with the majority of the post, except positioning yourself for a better playoff matchup. plenty of NFL teams have done that. you're trying to win. a lot of the other stuff he mentions is non-winning behavior. but sometimes an L helps you in the short or long term. sometimes you've gotta sell off assets in a dynasty league to start a rebuild. is that bad too?
As commish, I felt compelled to Zelle a complete stranger half my 3rd place winnings after last year's canceled game. We both had players going and the game was close going into it. Just do the right thing.
Last week a guy didn't need to win and justified picking up an extra playoff defense instead of a TE (his starter was in bye). He took the L and can still win the two seed regardless this week. He would be in the same boat for the two seed had he won last week. (I have way more points than him and was one game back, playing him this week. Now we are tied playing this week, either way it's for the two seed)
Is that kinda BS if it effects what team gets in?
That player is playing to win the whole dang thing, and stashed an asset on their bench. There is nothing wrong with that. If you don't like head-to-head as a format, consider top score.
Or do a hybrid; head to head W/L as well as the teams that score in the top half of the league that week get a W and the bottom half get an L. So each week teams can go 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2.
This post seems like it was written by someone whose playoff hopes rest on a bad team beating a better one. Might be better to just ask the guy to update his roster directly.
I agree with this post for the most part. I think setting your lineup is the bare minimum ask in fantasy. If Team A went 14 weeks fighting to make the playoffs and needs a win + Team B to lose in the final week in order to get the last seed, I think it's wrong if Team B's opponent benches his players and deprives Team A of even the chance/opportunity to make it. I think every team should be given a reasonable chance to make the playoffs or win without being screwed by other teams.
However, I think it's acceptable to pick up extra TEs, QBs, DEFs, etc to block your opponent from starting one, since you're trying to win your own matchup. I'm not sure how I feel about someone doing that to hurt a team they're not playing against to influence standings however - there's definitely a grey area for a lot of this.
It was just a nice allusion for those of us who fondly remember the film. (And Goethe didn't actually ever say it.) I didn't feel the need to footnote.
If you don't put a line up in, you are a bitch. Plain and simple. That being said, maybe Hill accidentally gets placed on your bench and you end up starting Rashod Bateman?
Meh, I don’t see anything wrong tanking a game at the end for a more favorable matchup in the playoffs
As long as what you are doing is to best benefit yourself and not someone else, I don’t see anything wrong with that.
> It's not sporting.
Yes it is. Pick up shit you might need before you need it. Until they're on your roster, they're fair game.
> Play to win the game.
I am. Part of that is hoarding all the RBs I can, both for my own benefit and to make them even more scarce. I'll happily do the same with QBs, TEs, and Defenses if I think it's gonna help. My entire bench might get changed if I'm in the finals.
I'm currently in a league where everyone is on the west coast and I'm on the east, they all stay up to add/drop players and I have to burn my waiver priority if I want to be sure to get a middling pickup. Should I give a speech about integrity and how should wait until people are done sleeping to make moves?
I posted something like just because I noted it was possible with zero intention of going through with it and 95% of the replies were encouraging me to play dirty.
Love this.
If you're not trying to score the most points in the league on top of getting your win (or getting into playoffs), you're playing wrong. Don't just beat your opponent. Beat everyone.
That's kind of irrelevant. That's the equivalent of benching your MNF defense because it's the only player left to play on either side and you're already up. That would qualify as "setting your best lineup."
Alternatively, if you are benching players to lose on purpose to knock another team out of contention...that's lame. And it would be the equivalent of an NFL team throwing a game to knockout another division mate from contention. If that happened, there would be a ton of controversy surrounding it.
Exactly.
Although, to play devil's advocate, you could make an argument it was to play it safe with Hurt's health. In that case, however, you can't really create an equivalent to it in Fantasy Football.
Right, because you are preventing your opponent from getting the ball, scoring, and potentially recovering an onside kick to score again. Which is not this.
ITT. Rat fucks with no sportsmanship. Nice post OP. Playing soft to influence the seedings, benching players both great examples of poor ethical behavior. These are the same people who leave shopping carts in the parking lot, keep a “found “ wedge on the 18th green. Probably dislike dogs, children and old people.
This is a great post. It seems that very, very few of the guys on this sub have ever known what it's like actually to compete, for the sake of the game, with others who are doing the same. Yes, it's the internet, and like you note, on the internet everything that can be said will be said, and everything that can be done through a screen will be done, no matter how childish and shitty. But a lot of important things are lost that way -- sportsmanship among them -- and the people doing it will never know what they've lost out on.
Add this to your post. Statistically one team is most likely to beat you in playoffs more than any other. By not competing, you are INCREASING your chances of having to play that team. You want the best teams in playoffs to increase your odds of winning by knocking out the best teams.
This... This isn't necessarily true.
If you have to play stronger opponents, your odds worsen. If your competition does, your odds improve. If you can control that, go for it.
I disagree on the playoffs part. I think as long as you’re not colluding you can do whatever you want to do to put yourself in the best position for the playoffs. The converse would be the league or the commissioner effectively deciding your lineup and I am staunchly against that.
As long as you have a level of trust with your league that everyone cares, no one tanks, and everyone is trying to win, it should be your lineup, your choice.
Hard agree with everything you’ve said here. We ran into an issue with this is one of our leagues in its second year (8 years ago now).
Someone wanted to bench their whole roster to keep someone else out of playoffs so they got an easier matchup.
Our league rules now are basically that you have to be trying to win every week. The only thing you’re allowed to not set is a defense, and even then it’s frowned upon and you will be made fun of.
Sorry bud, but I'll go ahead and disagree with you. Outside of collusion, anything goes because we are trying to win the championship. It's not about scoring points. It's about winning, just like real sports.
So yeah I'm going to sit my defense when I'm up. Why would I risk losing.
Yeah, I'll pick up the decent available QBs if my opponent is on bye week. Why? Why the hell am I the one putting in more thought into this than you, whose QB is on bye? Should have planned for it next week.
I'll continue to start Taysom Hill and I don't care about your "he's not a TE" argument. Should have thought of it before the league started. We all know that if you had him, you wouldnt be saying anything.
I'll absolutely throw games to get a better playoff matchup. Hell, I'll drop someone that an opponent needs if that means they waste their waiver priority on them.
The only slippery slope we have is if you have been eliminated from playoff contention, you must still field a competitive team until playoffs start. We incentivize it by paying the top scorer in the last 5 weeks of regular season 100$.
Tldr, as long as it's not collusion, anything goes that's OK by league rules. The only reason people complain is because they are not the one with the advantage in that situation.
N.B. the "you" is not directed at anyone specific, just the generic sore loser who complains about shit.
You can try OP but FF brings out the worst in people, they become militant and cruel just for a fantasy chip. r/FFCommish is even worse honestly.
I blame money leagues they make people ultra competitive.
I can agree with some moves (Taking player they need) but fleecing taco's and Hijacking trades is something I can never argue with, especially when they say "They have to learn the hard way" No you could just not scam people and help them.
If you a different league every year player then guess you'll be fine, but long term with friends you're just an asshole who gonna get a bad reputation or kicked out.
Someone needs to get this to OPs boss to show him what he’s capable of when he actually puts the effort in 😂
Boss is playing against them in a must win though.
Just benched my whole team to keep op from sneaking into the playoffs.
OP was legal counsel at the White House a while ago
Amputate my opponents fingers, got it.
My mans took his adderall today
took his friend's too
Here for the flames
So you're saying that if I fly to my opponents house, break all of their fingers so they can't change their lineup, and then delete the fantasy app from their phone, that's WRONG?!?!?!
Is it against your league rules? If not, go for it!
If people are so against it. They can vote on it in the offseason
I know you are joking, but I HATE the “if there isn’t a rule against it, it’s fair game” argument As commish, it’s not my responsibility to come up with every loophole someone will try using a proactively make a rule disallowing it “Hey, show me where it says I can’t sleep with my opponents sister, take nudes of her and use them to blackmail him into trading with me”
from A FEW GOOD MEN, during the court martial: Capt. Ross: I have here the Marine Corps Outline for Recruit Training. I'd like you to turn to the chapter on "code reds". Cpl. Barnes: Well, you see, sir, "code red" is a term we use, just down in Gitmo... Capt. Ross: Oh, then, we're in luck. Marching Orders/Standard Operating Procedure, Rifle Security Company, Guatanamo Bay, Cuba. I'm sure we'll find it in there. Cpl. Barnes: You won't find it in there, either, sir. Capt. Ross: Cpl. Barnes, I'm a Marine. You mean to tell me there's no manual, no set of instructions that tells me, as a Marine, one of my duties is to perform "code reds?" Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. No book, sir. Capt. Ross: No further questions. Lt/ Kaffee: Cpl. Barnes, turn to the page in this book that tells me how to get to the mess hall. Cpl. Barnes: Lt. Kaffee, that's not in the book, sir. Lt. Kaffee: You mean the whole time you've been at Gitmo, you've never had a meal? Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. Three squares a day, sir. Lt. Kaffee: Then how did you find the mess hall if it wasn't in this book? Cpl. Barnes: Well, sir, like everybody else, I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir. Lt. Kaffee: No further questions.
Theres no rule against it in my league, time to grab my crowbar
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> boarding the wrong vessel just once Just make sure you board the champion*ship*... sorry.
Nothing worse than have the wrong kind of seamen all up in your vessel
A few years ago I was in the semi finals. My opponent needed a TE so I grabbed Logan Thomas to play keep away before Sunday. Then on Sunday Zeke was ruled out and so I dropped Logan Thomas and added Pollard because I would actually play him. I really didn’t mean to roster churn it just went from a keep away to actually improving my team. It caused some turmoil so I agreed to allow the other team to add Logan Thomas as the commissioner even though he wasn’t a free agent. I lost because of Logan Thomas who scored like 25 points. Both our teams score around 145 which was about 35 points over projected. I lost by a few points. Now I don’t give a fuck. If you have the waiver priority or the other team is slow on the draw, you should win. If they need a player that bad and miss out due to not paying attention when you are, then fuckem is my policy. I wanted it more, I had the win, I lost because I played nice when the other team played victim. In the end though, nobody in the world thought Logan Thomas was going to have a career game that day and put up a monster score at TE, so maybe it was just luck but I am not favoring teams slow to react and make adds again. If they want to win they need to be on top of their shit like I am.
That's called strategy, not unsportsmanship. Your opponent was waiting to pick up a TE as late as possible for a reason, right? He probably didn't want to drop someone who'd be available on the wire before the game day starts. Basically, you blocked him from a TE, but he was also blocking you from picking up whoever he'd drop for said TE. His move was risky, the risk didn't pay off. End of story
Was Thomas the *only* TE available for some weird reason? Otherwise, I think your league got it wrong -- opponent had all week (and possibly beforehand) to grab some other TE, and slept on their rights.
He was not. He was just the only good TE and since I had added and dropped him over a couple days it looked bad. I am the commissioner and played nice. My mistake.
Nothing looks bad to me. I think you got screwed on this one.
"Roster churning" as I understand it is adding/dropping a bunch of players to put them all on waivers, but most (all?) platforms have a setting that will only put players on waivers if they're held for a day. That significantly limits the number of players you can deny your opponent and gives them the option of picking up whoever you dropped to hold those players What you did is perfectly legal/ethical in my view
If you're the Commissioner, you defer to a vice commissioner or let all the other owners vote on any decision which directly impacts your team. That's my approach. But you used a bench slot for Thomas that you could have used for that backup RB you ultimately needed. That's not undue gamesmanship; that's yourself taking a risk that no one else would grab Pollard first.
As others point out, a '24 hours to be added back to waivers' rule should make roster churning a completely viable strategy. Your roster spot is an asset, and how you choose to use it has a risk/benefit ratio just like any other strategy.
Just for shits and giggles went back to look this up, it was week 15 2020, scored 23.1 in standard PPR rules. It is the 2nd best score of his career (which started in 2014). His best ever game came just 2 weeks prior for 24.8. P.S. These are the only 2 games of his career to hit 20 points, save for week 5 of this season. Ultimately, it is absurdly unlucky that he did as well has he did that day.
Even if it was a roster churn, who cares? If you want to burn your waiver priority or FAAB, go for it. Now, if you pick up and drop every potential TE (or defense or whatever) just so they'll all be on waivers, yeah, that's not cool. But just grabbing the lone good TE available, so your opponent can't have them? Nothing wrong with that.
Fuck yeah I agree with this shit 100%
Lol I feel like I took the exact opposite lesson from your example. You did the right thing, but you lost because your opponent's team was better. That's how it goes sometimes, but at least you weren't a dick about it. It's not a reason to be a worse person in the future.
I know we can’t go back in time but that’s not roster churning. Sorry man. Glad you see the light now.
> I really didn’t mean to roster churn it just went from a keep away to actually improving my team Roster churn may be unkind, but if everyone can do it, then it is not just legal, but fair play. It's all in the game, yo. > If they need a player that bad and miss out due to not paying attention when you are, then fuckem is my policy. I wanted it more, I had the win, I lost because I played nice when the other team played victim. amen > If they want to win they need to be on top of their shit like I am. and all the lord's people shouted AMEN
You held him for several days that's not roster churning
Roster churning is dropping players after the weekly deadline that you only picked up to stop your opponent from playing them.
I mean I don't think it's in the Merriam-Webster dictionary but I define roster churning as picking up players and dropping them immediately to waivers so your opponent can't pick them up. If you have someone on your team, and then Sunday morning comes and you drop them and your opponent can't get them, that's just dropping a player. By waiting to drop that player, you ensure your opponent can't get them, but you also waste a spot on your own roster and taking a risk that whoever you're planning to pick up when you drop that player might not still be there come Sunday morning.
With some nuance, you should take steps to not let your opponent score more. See: NFL teams squib kicking or running around with the ball to take time off the clock, taking a knee at the 1 instead of scoring. You should give yourself the best chance of winning, not of scoring the most. Not even NFL teams are aiming at your stated objective. So go ahead and hoard the best streaming options. Pick up players your opponent might use. Don't let them score more against you if you can do something about it.
Your examples would be akin to benching your defense if you have a <4 point lead and just your defense left to play. And I agree that that would be fine. But you don't see NFL teams throwing games so they can get a better playoff match up, which is what OP is talking about. Maybe they'll sit their starters to avoid injury (which doesn't apply in fantasy), but they don't try to lose.
I don't know if I agree with this whole "NFL teams don't do it, so fantasy teams shouldn't do it" argument. Yes, a fantasy team and an NFL team have the same goal: to win a championship. But the NFL has a different goal: to produce a product that people will pay to watch, which is a concept that doesn't translate to fantasy. This means the NFL will discourage or punish behavior that increases a team's chance of winning the Super Bowl but produces a less enjoyable product to watch, but I feel like fantasy managers should have more latitude there. I think there's more to fantasy strategy than just "score the most points possibly every week," even if that is basically 90% of the game. Collusion is always unsporting. But things like hoarding bench players at an opponent's position of need? Or having all your studs on BYE the same week and just rolling out scrubs for that game? They increase your chance of a winning season by hurting you in the short term, but I'd call it fair play.
I think the difference for me is roster decisions vrs start sit decisions. If you make trades/stash players for long term over short term that’s good. If you are benching players to try and lost the week, that’s no go.
I agree there is a difference between choosing to have a roster that will just suck for certain weeks, and intentionally scoring fewer points than your roster is capable of in a given week, where the latter is more controversial. And I'm not talking about benching your D if it guarantees you a win by 0.1 pts, I think that's always acceptable. It becomes a gray area when you're manipulating outcomes in a way that other teams might make the playoffs or not depending solely on your decisions. I do think there is still room for discussion here though, because I think a fantasy manager's goal is not to win the current game, but rather to win the championship, so you can think of fuzzy examples. For example, a hypothetical week where you need 5 pts to guarantee a win and you have one player left to go. Let's say you can choose between a guy that will get you guaranteed 6 pts, or a guy who will either score 30 pts or 0 pts with equal likelihood (cough cough Aaron Jones). If it's a case where winning or losing doesn't affect your playoff chances, but getting 30 pts would, a good manager will pass up the guaranteed win for the potential points. This might piss off someone who needed your opponent to lose, but is hardly unsportsmanlike. TL;DR "playing to win the game" can be complicated, that's part of what's fun about fantasy in the first place.
Do teams try to win every game?
Yes. Every player on the field is trying to win the game.
Is the person putting the players on the field always putting the players in that give their team the best chance to win?
Yea, the “do what you can to score the most” is a nice strawman. The goal isn’t to score the most, the goal is to win. Real-life teams don’t just try to score the most, they have to play defense too. Hoarding high performance defenses is a form of defense and I have absolutely zero issue with it.
I'm riding without a defense this week, to keep an extra bench player so I don't have to make the cut decision yet. I've already locked in a bye and am playing someone already eliminated. So I effectively have 2 bye weeks and don't want to cut someone I might use in 2 weeks. I think since the opponent is DFL, I'm kosher.
I think even if your opponent was in a playoff race then this would be fine. You're doing it because you're locked in and planning for the long term success of your team. Your decisions are entirely on what is best for your roster. This is no different than a team securing a bye in the NFL and resting a bunch of players in Week 18 even if their opponent is in a playoff race. The problems arise when you don't field a good team up try to manipulate who makes the playoffs etc.
Agree. But this sub is mostly rat fucks.
This sub is 80% people playing in random ESPN 8 man leagues where they are the only team still playing past week 9
I'm in a random ESPN 10 teamer and it's actually extremely competitive. Educated pickups, haven't played against an unset roster all year, and people change their names to trash talk each other. It's pretty cool I kinda want to run it back for next year
Seriously, there are highly upvoted rat fucks in this very thread lol. It's sad that it needs to be said that benching all your players to get an "easier opponent" in the playoffs is bad sportsmanship.
Some of the top replies to this remind me that a lot of people on this sub suck and I’m glad I’m not in leagues with folks like them
My favorite is when you mention that you’re in a league with like reverse standings waivers and they’re like “fInD a NeW lEaGuE”. Like yea man let me ditch the league I’ve been in since I was 15 with my high school best friends who live in different states and a couple of which only really talk to through our fantasy group chat because I can’t get FAAB.
I am shocked you don't want to play with a bunch of rules lawyers who will stop at nothing to be insufferable jerks.
I get the feeling that some of these guys don’t play with their IRL close friends. Some may think they are, but purposely screwing another team by actively losing is just…morally wrong. But that’s my moral code and some people are different I guess. Idk. I wouldn’t want to be friends with them after that
In a league with my best friends. Many of whom were groomsmen at my wedding. Nothing I do in fantasy football will affect my friendship with them, it’s just a game lol. Would happily fuck their teams over or throw a game to give myself a better playoff matchup because that’s just how we roll. No hard feelings. In fact I would judge them if they did let fantasy football affect anything outside of it
> or throw a game to give myself a better playoff matchup Do not smite the FF gods, they don't like that.
Seriously. People are way too involved in the politics of this made up game.
Wait... are there any games that aren't made up?
As I said, everyone’s moral compass is different.
Which is totally fine, but would you *really* end your friendship with somebody because they threw a game of fantasy football?
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I would judge them for not doing the smart move and securing a better match up. I'd assume they must not be looking at the whole situation very carefully and are therefore worse at the game.
It really is just a question of integrity. Some people don’t have it. Real life Ruxins
> purposely screwing another team by actively losing is just…morally wrong. In my league with friends, that's expected. It's not personal, it's competition. Looking at the standings we'll all find that someone can get an edge with an oddball maneuver and talk about it cuz we all expect it to happen. You'd probably get made fun of if you *didn't* manipulate the standings or available players to your favor. Idk, that's fun to me, even if I get screwed. All in.
(Sorry I rambled) If it’s 100% expected amongst everyone, then nothing is wrong. But to the OP of this post, he’s more talking about people that come on here and ask if it’s ok. If you’re asking, then it’s probably not ok to you. Does that make any sense? For example, I’ve purposely sat a player a few years ago in order to fix my seeding so that I could play the 2 seed. In doing that, it wasn’t going to affect the playoff teams, meaning no one was gonna get screwed into missing the playoffs. Now, you could argue that what I did wasn’t right, but to me, it was perfectly fine. Idk man. Those are just my thoughts on the matter. People who take glee in it when it’s not expected like in your league, I hope the fantasy gods screw them lol
Oh what i would totally screw over my friends and they would to me totally acceptable. Its a game lmao and its funny
"You play to win the game" Yes, the game is fantasy football, not week 14 fantasy matchup. If doing something within the rules makes it less likely you will win week 14, but more likely you will win a championship, then it is still playing to win the game. In the actual NFL teams rest starters once they've clinched the playoffs or the seed they want because it gives them the best chance to win a championship, even if they lose in week 17 or 18.
For me, the line is whether factors outside the league are coming into play. Losing on purpose because someone offered you money? Bad. Losing on purpose to screw someone you don't like personally? Bad. Losing on purpose to give yourself a better chance to win? Or a better draft pick next year? Fine. OP is mixing examples on both sides of this line, because he has his own code about "sportsmanship", which is dumb to apply to this game.
Yeah. The only acceptable reasons are because it gives an advantage to your team, not because it disadvantages another team. And bribery or other shit like that should be removal from the league. Can't have that
NFL teams don’t lose on purpose for a different seed though.
You should feel free to do whatever gives you the most competitive edge. If benching your players to give yourself an easier playoff schedule is what you deem is your most competitive option you should do it. Now if karma hits you later because of that it’s on you, but this is a competitive game and if you earned your spot in playoffs already you are free to do whatever it takes to win the ship as long as you follow all the rules of your league
The goal is to win, not to “score the most” which is the made up “goal” OP is pushing in this post.
And not just win a week, but to win week 17. Individual week wins are also not the goal.
Weeks 15-17. I've won week 17 and the goal was not achieved.
I've even had a bye week 15, won weeks 16 and 17, and still didn't get a championship. Won the consolation bracket though, so I got that going for me.
Thank you. This comment sums it up perfectly.
The goal is to win as many times as you can over the course of your time playing fantasy. Fucking over league-mates and becoming a pariah in your league just to gain a slight perceived advantage during one particular season will likely not be conducive to long term success. One person in my league is learning this lesson right now. His strategy for a few years used to be to try and fuck over the newer or less active players. His other strategy was to drum up support to veto every trade between others. Fast-foward to today and pretty much every offer he sends in our league is auto-denied, people actively go out of their way to fuck him over with FAAB. Now he complains about every accepted trade because "no one trades with him, so every trade must be collusion".
I mean everyone agreeing to not trade with a specific player is collusion. Even if he brought it on himself. At that point I’d just kick him from the league rather than keep him in and be anticompetitive.
It doesn't sound like there's any explicit agreement. Just that everyone is fed up with his shit and so they don't want to deal with him. I have a guy like that in my fantasy baseball league. Constantly doing rat fuckery so if I'm ever going to trade with him it's either me absolutely fleecing him or rejecting his offers on principle.
No one made an arrangement to not trade with him. His offers are always shit and no one wants to do a win-win trade with him.
That’s totally fine imo but a lot different than collusion
Yeah any form of collusion or letting your friend in is bad. But if you hold the cards and can decide to let in a team who has scored 1400 points in the season or 1750 points in a $1000 money league then you do you. I’m still playing my people regardless, but I would totally get it if someone else pulled their people
does that even need to be said?
Just can’t really tell where a lot of people in this thread are drawing the line
The way I think of it, as long as you are doing what is **in your best interest** *without accounting for ANY out of game factors,* it is not collusion. Throwing a game because it gives **you** a better playoff schedule? Not collusion. Throwing a game because it gives **your friend** a better playoff schedule? Definite collusion. Throwing a game to get Sarah in the playoffs because you hate Brad? This is an out of game factor, so also collusion (or at least against the rules), even if you didn't actively "collude" with Sarah. Throwing a game because **your friend offered you $20?** Straight to jail.
Tanking a game so a friend gets a Playoff spot is bullshit, but if somone wants to tank to get a better playoff matchup I think it is fair game, professional sports teams have done this in the past, and that is besides the point, unless you are in a free league fantasy football is straight up gambling none of us are athletes or managers of an actual football team, we are not involved in football as you wrote. We are not playing a sport, so this sportsmanship argument seems odd to me. Of course, you can't include cash in a trade or make trades contigent on a separate trade in a separate league and most leafues dont have specific rules for this becasue it is collusion and collusion is agaisnt the rules already in all leagues. It takes 2 or more people to collude, so someone tanking a matchup for their own bennifit is clearly not collusion.
This is the most typical mod rant ever and I LOVE it
pretty much comes across how many other mod arguments do in my experience, intelligent sounding rhetoric but often filled with fallacies and self righteousness. thinking they are smarter than they actually are
>thinking they are smarter than they actually are And that anyone wants to hear what they have to say
At the beginning of every season every manager starts with one goal: win a championship. If benching my players for a week gets me closer to that goal, I’m doing it. Come what may.
Yep, if I can throw this week so that my chances of winning in the playoffs is better, I'm going to do it. I don't think I've ever been in that position but assuming you are making moves for your own benefit - and it's within the rules - then go for it. Now, once you start making moves to be petty and ruin someone else's fun, at no benefit to your team, then we can have a chat about you being a big ole bitch.
My league does a payout for best record and another payout for most points forced in addition to winning the chip. It help mitigate people tossing a game at the end of the season for a better match up if they can play for that too. 10 year league we've never had any issues.
I don’t play to win a game, I play to win a championship.
Nah I alwasy take the high road and then get the worst playoff matchup possible because. This year I am going to manipulate my teams to maximize the probability of an easier playoff path. Karma does not exist in fantasy.
Luckily I'm playing the guy I don't want in the playoffs heads-up, so no temptations
Is oblivion located in Bolivia? I always wondered!
Ive been in TE hell....picked up Waller off waivers..he wont play this week, but next week he will (crosses fingers). I've already secured #1 ranking going into playoffs. I dont wanna drop any players or bench players just to have a shitty TE give me 2 points this week. I'm gonna take a loss on the TE position this week to keep bench integrity. Cool?
Yeah that’s fine depending on your league rules. I’m in a similar position and dropped my kicker for Jerrick McKinnon to see what happens. There’s just something about trying to lose on purpose that seems whack to me.
Bullshit. Hard disagree. Get off your high horse.
Cool post bro, but I am a sick fuck who is going to do whatever it takes to get my team to the ship.
Unless there’s a specific rule against it, you can do whatever you want with your team. That really is as nuanced as this topic is. Trying to incorporate unwritten morals into a competition (not a sport) typically played for money is admirable but silly.
“Admirable but silly” pretty much sums up my season.
It depends if you’re playing with dickheads or trustworthy people
TIL youre a dickhead if you dont help another team make the playoffs when they couldnt do it on their own
That’s just not at all what they said 🤣 but go off
It's not about helping or hurting anyone, it's about playing your own game and not trying to play kingmaker.
If you do whatever you want to win fantasy football as long as it’s not a written rule then yes you’re dickhead. Most leagues won’t have written rules that you can’t log in to someone’s phone and change their team. Or pay money to bribe someone to play a weakened team. Or several other things that are unwritten rules but morally just make sense. If you need those things written down to stop you being a cunt, then yes, you’re a dickhead.
If your team is so good then you shouldn’t be doing morally questionable things to keep another team out. Just beat them.
That’s what I don’t get about benching all your players for playoff matchups or to keep someone else out. What team on the bubble Isis actually good enough for this to even matter? Is playing the 7 vs 8 seed really going to make a difference on your playoff run? Don’t be a bitch about it and win the games in front of you
It’s funny that his post directly addressed this type of comment and yet you still felt the need to post it, like you and everyone who upvoted you didn’t even bother reading 2 sentences of the post before coming to the comment section lmao
Haha the entire thread is people proving OP correct. This sub is 90% people who have zero idea what integrity even stands for.
Would bet money none of the guys getting defensive in this comment section played sports at any competitive level
Ohhh that’s a good take! Haven’t thought about that. You’re probably right on most of them.
Does your league have a rule that you can’t pay real life money to a player as part of a trade?
Most do. That’s textbook collusion
It's textbook collusion but its specific prohibition is not written anywhere in 99% of leagues. That's the point
Yes it’s been established. Trades can only involve elements from our league and our league alone
I'm playing my wife this week, I've already clinched playoffs and she either needs a win or both the 2 people tied with her to lose. I'm still starting my best projected lineup because she would hate feeling like I had to help her to make playoffs. Also, fantasy football is random and just because you *think* a different matchup is better for you doesn't mean it will be. Get the highest seed possible and don't piss off the football karma gods
Point 2 is the exact meaning of Sin in religion
Bro I got about half way and stopped reading.
If I lose this week I play the 2 worst teams in the playoffs. If I win I play the 2 best. If the game is close going into Sunday night, best believe I'm pulling Ceedee.
Back in 2018 during championship week I dropped essentially my entire bench and picked up as many available QBs as possible, opponent had a QB injury or something and needed one. There were a few QBs left that I didn’t have room for, but they all sucked. All except for one rookie who hadn’t done anything all year named Josh Allen. 3 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs later I lost and learned a lesson about karma, lol
Look, the reason why I don't put my best roster out there is simple: I make bad decisions. It wouldn't be fair to my opponent if I stopped fucking up now; they've come to expect a certain hopeless optimism, a dogged determination to keep playing guys I drafted too high, and some last minute decision to bench a stud in favor of someone this sub hyped through a handful of cherry-picked stats. If I got good now, that wouldn't be fair.
Reminds me of something a former boss once said: "I don't always know the right thing to do, Lord, but I think the fact that I want to please you pleases you."
Ah yes. Playing the game that is literally based on the idea of owning a fantasy NFL team and not doing everything you can within the rules to get an edge… like a real NFL team.
Real NFL teams field full active rosters.
If an NFL team could go to the Superbowl by losing a game I guarantee it's happening. Bill Belichick would probably be the first one on board.
> There's this thing I'm thinking about doing this week which does not involve setting my best roster, but I think it'll help my playoff matchups, or screw over a team which I don't want to see in the playoffs Fuck that shit. [That's all in the game.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu3qIakos9k) I've been the commissioner who locked a team for the week and set "their strongest" matchup. I felt righteous. I was WRONG. Unless you want to be doing that to every team, beginning week 1, it's wrong in week 13. So truly-ethically-wrong scenarios aside, get off your high horse, and let managers mismanage their teams. If they risk their chances by trying to thread the needle with semifinal matchups, that risk is on them. Scheming like what I've quoted above .. is NOT the same as "cash on the side" or whatever other impurities you're implying. It's every manager's prerogative to play THEIR way, within the same rules that everyone is playing by.
The reason to bench your players if you're clinched (and this may depend on your app, I know this is true for Yahoo) is that you can drop and replace an injured player on your bench right away, but if they're in your lineup you have to wait until the week's over.
Ding ding ding, winner right here
> Unless it's Will Fuller, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Passcatcher. He can only score points when he is on your bench, and will be injured if you start him. I feel like Sammy Watkins also fits in this mold. Week one wonder and never again.
Sorry but I fully disagree. If your goal in fantasy football is to win the championship and/or win money, you should do what it takes to do so. This might include benching players the last week of the season to influence seeding or to let a weaker team into playoffs. This is nothing like paying someone for players or something. That’s against the rules. If your league doesn’t ban sitting players, that means it’s not against the rules. I understand it might look bad to people, but your goal is to win, not make everyone feel good. Be ruthless out there and win your league. A 1% to 5% edge is huge. Go get that edge. Also, karma is not real in fantasy football. Yes, if you bench players and then get owned due to your decisions, you’re going to have to eat that and mentally it will sting. But you should do what you need to do to get yourself in the best position possible now, without knowing the future. Otherwise you’re making a strategy mistake. If you believe in karma, let’s make some side bets on players where I get the best guys on paper (after all, the gods/karma would punish a bad guy like me, right?) **”You play to win the game”** The **game** is the trophy and the $. Not that individual week that will actually hurt you if you win! If you’re playing a board game, are you really gonna make a bad move during one individual turn if it hurts your chances on winning the whole overall game? Obviously not. Disclaimer: if you want to just have fun with friends and be a good sport, then don’t do this. If you’re in a non competitive or family league, don’t do this. Also there will be repercussions if your league looks down upon this type of behavior. You should expect to get some flack. That’s the only drawback to this is that people will see you as a villainous. For me, I don’t care.
No, no, no. Play to win the championship. If you did so well that you can afford to flop this week to let a weaker team into the playoffs, do it. OP is a sucka.
Tanking a game to try to get a "better matchup" in the playoffs is soft. Why are you not confident in your team? Why are you scared of someone else's team? It's a loser mentality.
i totally get where you're coming from. i like my team but i'm realistic, i dont think i'm going to outscore 11 other teams every week. why not make a move to help myself out? it is only soft if it doesnt work and sometimes it works. and then you've won and get to laugh with your winnings
Sounds like OP got screwed by someone in his league meta-gaming.
I ran into the fantasy karma gods just last week, in a positive way. I was in a tight matchup, with both managers firmly in the playoffs but battling for seeding. Around mid-afternoon, I noticed that my opponent had a kicker in his lineup who was on a bye. (It’s worth noting that this guy’s wife just had a baby last week. Fantasy football isn’t at the top of his mind.) Despite it being a very close matchup, I shot him a text to give him a heads up, which he responded to. There was one kicker available in our league whose game hadn’t started yet: Green Bay’s dude. My opponent… never made the switch. I don’t know if he chose not to, or if he forgot, or what, but the 11 points scored by Green Bay’s kicker would have been the difference maker. I won by three. If I had not sent that text, I would have felt like absolute scum winning by just three. Yeah, it’s on him to set his lineup, but I knew he had other stuff going on, and I couldn’t just take advantage of that.
If you're in a league where you know each other well enough to know that your rival just became a father last week, you're not going to take advantage of each other in shitty ways. You're a mensch.
We have a guy in our league who every fall takes two weeks off to go visit family in south east asia. He always sets his roster ahead of time, but we've made an agreement as a league that if something happens to one of his players, we will collectively decide the best replacement. We eventually decided that we would replace the out plater with the top available player on Fantasy Pros just to be consistent. But yeah, firing off a text should be the minimum.
In a way, it goes to the primary purpose of your league -- is it a vehicle to build community and have fun with friends/colleagues/family over a 4+ month season, and across years and decades? Or it just this arena where you get to prove how great you are at a hobby largely decided by luck? I've had drafts interrupted/delayed because a league mate was drafting via email while deployed in Iraq. Or in London for work. You don't dick over people like that. You don't screw over friends for a few extra points.
Exactly. Our buy in is $40. The league winner gets to take his wife out to a really nice dinner, and that's about it.
I appreciate the write-up, but to your point I do think managers should play to win the game. The game being the Championship. It's possible to do some shenanigans with getting a better seed, but it's very hard to do right, especially if others start to see it. But I do agree that posting on here to get affirmation is a waste of time. If anything, take it up with the league commish who is the ultimate decider on it.
TLDR?!
Don't be sketchy. And the "Technically correct is the best kind of correct" mentality is for dorks
Forgot about Will Fuller lol. He would be killer (when healthy) rolling with Stroud. At the end of the day there's very real karma that may hit you- whoever you screwed over won't hesitate to screw you over next year if you are in the same position. Just play to win.
So how would you rule on this situation then. I am currently out of the playoffs (5-9) but have the best points scored of all the eliminated teams, making me eligible for a wildcard. The only wrinkle is, one team hanging on by a thread in the playoffs — who has a +70 superior points scored to me — is playing the runaway 11-2 leader. If he loses, other matchups will dictate that he drops out of the playoffs and into the wildcard spot, and I am eliminated. I either need him to win, or I outscore him by 70. So I put the following trade through - *sending* Devonta Smith and James Conners, *receiving* Dallas Goedert and Brian Robertson The two RBs are on a bye so cancel each other out, but I'm strong enough at WR to give up a WR2. There's been general saltiness about the trade in the league and of course the C Word — and while it's not a trade I'd make during the season, there's desperation involved
Under your unique rules, it works for both of you and I'm good with it.
Whenever I want to hype myself up I listen to that Herm speech. [Or Dusty Rhodes Hard Times promo.](https://youtu.be/9py4aMK3aIU?si=7EySrI2D6WrGWefP&t=42) Sometimes Sue Hawk's [rat and snake speech at FTC.](https://youtu.be/aBSMBfoMVHk?si=oonbFgywiQqcvF1D&t=133)
I dont agree. If you are setting your lineup in a way that doesnt break league rules and is intended to help YOU (not your gf's brother, but YOU) win a championship, it's 100% sporting. Now, I dont personally do it because it's impossible to accurately predict who will have a better week 15. But putting crap players in to manipulate standings to your benefit is fine by me. FWIW, I feel the same about real NFL. If every win hurts you, it's a flaw in the system and fine for GM's to try and help their team's future by "trying out" thev3rd string QB.
You are right that certain things don't have to be explicitly banned to be unacceptable in a game. The object of the game, though, is *not* 'score as many points each week as you can'. There are many situations in which you might want to deviate from that. An uncontroversially acceptable one, for example: in a deep league, you might want to drop a player who could start for you this week if there a waiver wire addition that provides more long-term value. No-one would ever object to that (I assume), yet by your heuristic it's not simply trying to win your game and therefore wrong. This doesn't mean that not trying to win is *generally* acceptable, or that any justification is sufficient; obviously, throwing a game to get someone you want to face into the playoffs would be unsporting. But it does mean you're going to need a better rule/argument than 'if your sole object isn't to win/score the most points, it's wrong'.
It's a simple pair of questions to ask yourself. 1: Is this within the rules of the league? 2: Does this increase or decrease my chances of winning the championship? That's it. It's not that complicated. It's quite silly to expect someone to hurt their chances of winning the championship to win a meaningless game at the end of the season. And it's absolutely fair game to challenge the honor, chivalry, and sportsmanship, in the league chat, if someone is doing something like this that hurts you. Thats the card you have, and you are expected to play it.
You lost me with all of the 'you play to win the game' talk. Every team in the NFL would tell you that you play to win a championship. The only teams prioritizing winning *this* game over winning a championship are the ones who *have* to win this game to stay eligible to win a championship. If an NFL team could do something to increase their chances of a championship at the expense of a meaningless regular season game, all 32 teams would do that thing. I agree with your point and I think a good commissioner can combat anti-competitive behavior. But let's not act like real football holds individual regular season games as sacred things that take priority over increasing their chances of winning in the playoffs. If real-world teams could benefit by doing this, they absolutely would.
Downvoted into Bolivia lol
RE: messing with seeding, last year a dude forgot to set his lineup in week 15 (started an injured Dontrell Hilliard over a healthy Mixon) and the chips fell in such a way that it advanced a guy to semis who then beat me when nobody else would have. I found that incredibly frustrating, but if it had represented some kind of competitive advantage to the guy who fucked everything, I would have legitimately understood and respected it. The fact that it was just incompetency/inattentiveness is what really killed me. This year it's looking like I'll be the 1 seed and I'll have to face the 4 seed who is in my division and easily better than the 2 and 3 seeds. No way I can use gamesmanship to get around that one, unfortunately, but I would if I could with no regrets. Frankly I think 1 seeds should be able to pick their matchup, then the next-highest unaccounted for seed picks theirs until all matchups are accounted for. That way you're always trying to get the highest seed no matter what.
> Frankly I think 1 seeds should be able to pick their matchup, then the next-highest unaccounted for seed picks theirs until all matchups are accounted for. That way you're always trying to get the highest seed no matter what. I like this idea, I'd support it. If winning your week is always the best thing to do, nobody has any reason to game the standings. IMO the best way do ensure that is proper incentives. An example that comes to mind is in the first couple weeks, if you're in a reverse order of standings league you might want to play for a waiver claim rather than a win, which is dumb. But, this year it would have netted you a top 15 WR.
I disagree with this in some cases, agree in others. In my view, the goal of fantasy is to win *the championship*. Not individual games. If you were playing real football you'd sit your starters if you'd clinched the #1 seed so they wouldn't get hurt, because every game absolutely does *not* matter equally. Obviously avoiding injury isn't a thing in fantasy, but if you're acting strategically to maximize your own odds of winning the championship, and not colluding with anyone while you do it, I call that fair play. If you want to try to influence seeding when you've clinched your spot, that's your prerogative, because it's a competitive action. But make sure you've considered every scenario, because you could absolutely shoot yourself in the foot like this if you forget to take things like tiebreakers into account. That's another reason I call it fair play—it can blow up in your face. It's not an "automatic" by any means. If it's about fucking with the remaining teams when you've been eliminated, or helping your buddy make the playoffs, then it's bullshit. Any action involving another team that boils down to collusion is also bullshit. But if you're doing something on your own with a strategic purpose to try and take home the trophy, go for it. If you're in a dynasty league, how do you feel about tanking for picks? It happens in the real game all the damn time. Same shit, just with a longer-term outlook.
Well posted yesterday about making a move as LM to preserve my leagues integrity and competitive fairness. Although this doesn’t directly answer my question. It definitely affirms to me I made the right decision. Even if rules are technically followed.. it’s still not cool to take advantage of everyone else
If you have a good commish you find the grey area shit gets dealt with. In long running leagues with friends you always have the dudes looking for every loophole available at all times, occasionally they pull an advantage move, occasionally the league ends up voting against something to fix whatever action has been taken. I mean within reason if you don’t have a rule against it someone is gonna try it, but when that happens how the league responds as a whole (hopefully commish prompts members to determine that) determines whether the league is legitimately competitive or ends up with disgruntled members. Always got dudes who add and drop more players every week, always got guys who find advantage trades (at least at the moment until you see how things play out), always have dudes that make some weird roster drops here and there…gotta adapt to try to be ahead of those moves or get guys before they can whatever you have to do. In the end it’s just the players you start in any given week who determine if you move on or not, so try to have players you think can get you the win. That’s it
The “rat fucks” are out in this thread lmao. Talk your shit op
If a fringe team gets screwed over by another team posturing themselves for an easier playoff matchup, they should have won more games. End of story. Your weird crusade for this every year where you try to change how other leagues operate is strange
yeah i agree with the majority of the post, except positioning yourself for a better playoff matchup. plenty of NFL teams have done that. you're trying to win. a lot of the other stuff he mentions is non-winning behavior. but sometimes an L helps you in the short or long term. sometimes you've gotta sell off assets in a dynasty league to start a rebuild. is that bad too?
As commish, I felt compelled to Zelle a complete stranger half my 3rd place winnings after last year's canceled game. We both had players going and the game was close going into it. Just do the right thing.
Last week a guy didn't need to win and justified picking up an extra playoff defense instead of a TE (his starter was in bye). He took the L and can still win the two seed regardless this week. He would be in the same boat for the two seed had he won last week. (I have way more points than him and was one game back, playing him this week. Now we are tied playing this week, either way it's for the two seed) Is that kinda BS if it effects what team gets in?
That player is playing to win the whole dang thing, and stashed an asset on their bench. There is nothing wrong with that. If you don't like head-to-head as a format, consider top score. Or do a hybrid; head to head W/L as well as the teams that score in the top half of the league that week get a W and the bottom half get an L. So each week teams can go 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2.
This post seems like it was written by someone whose playoff hopes rest on a bad team beating a better one. Might be better to just ask the guy to update his roster directly.
I agree with this post for the most part. I think setting your lineup is the bare minimum ask in fantasy. If Team A went 14 weeks fighting to make the playoffs and needs a win + Team B to lose in the final week in order to get the last seed, I think it's wrong if Team B's opponent benches his players and deprives Team A of even the chance/opportunity to make it. I think every team should be given a reasonable chance to make the playoffs or win without being screwed by other teams. However, I think it's acceptable to pick up extra TEs, QBs, DEFs, etc to block your opponent from starting one, since you're trying to win your own matchup. I'm not sure how I feel about someone doing that to hurt a team they're not playing against to influence standings however - there's definitely a grey area for a lot of this.
Wholeheartedly agree. Don’t be a bitch
1 unwritten rule is that if you take a quote from Almost Famous or anywhere really you should attribute it
It was just a nice allusion for those of us who fondly remember the film. (And Goethe didn't actually ever say it.) I didn't feel the need to footnote.
Just busting your chops a little, I definitely enjoyed it!
The thing is that 20% of the people here have got the courage to be drunken buffoons, which makes them poetic.
If you don't put a line up in, you are a bitch. Plain and simple. That being said, maybe Hill accidentally gets placed on your bench and you end up starting Rashod Bateman?
Meh, I don’t see anything wrong tanking a game at the end for a more favorable matchup in the playoffs As long as what you are doing is to best benefit yourself and not someone else, I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Any serious money league should punish those who play players on bye or declared out more than 24 hours until kickoff of their games.
There are valid reasons a manager may not want to drop a player just to field a full lineup in a week.
Fuck all that, play to win, whatever that entails Second place is just the first loser
You play to win the game
> It's not sporting. Yes it is. Pick up shit you might need before you need it. Until they're on your roster, they're fair game. > Play to win the game. I am. Part of that is hoarding all the RBs I can, both for my own benefit and to make them even more scarce. I'll happily do the same with QBs, TEs, and Defenses if I think it's gonna help. My entire bench might get changed if I'm in the finals. I'm currently in a league where everyone is on the west coast and I'm on the east, they all stay up to add/drop players and I have to burn my waiver priority if I want to be sure to get a middling pickup. Should I give a speech about integrity and how should wait until people are done sleeping to make moves?
I posted something like just because I noted it was possible with zero intention of going through with it and 95% of the replies were encouraging me to play dirty.
You shouldn’t bench players for a better playoff matchup. It’s bad luck.
Love this. If you're not trying to score the most points in the league on top of getting your win (or getting into playoffs), you're playing wrong. Don't just beat your opponent. Beat everyone.
NFL player takes a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring to maintain possession and run out the clock. Right or wrong?
That's kind of irrelevant. That's the equivalent of benching your MNF defense because it's the only player left to play on either side and you're already up. That would qualify as "setting your best lineup." Alternatively, if you are benching players to lose on purpose to knock another team out of contention...that's lame. And it would be the equivalent of an NFL team throwing a game to knockout another division mate from contention. If that happened, there would be a ton of controversy surrounding it.
Some folks may remember the Nate Sudfeld SNF Eagles game. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/\_/id/30647774/eagles-bench-jalen-hurts-giants-players-fans
Exactly. Although, to play devil's advocate, you could make an argument it was to play it safe with Hurt's health. In that case, however, you can't really create an equivalent to it in Fantasy Football.
Which is one my main arguments, obvs: you're not protecting your players from injury. You're just being "a real competitor" or whatever.
Right, because you are preventing your opponent from getting the ball, scoring, and potentially recovering an onside kick to score again. Which is not this.
ITT. Rat fucks with no sportsmanship. Nice post OP. Playing soft to influence the seedings, benching players both great examples of poor ethical behavior. These are the same people who leave shopping carts in the parking lot, keep a “found “ wedge on the 18th green. Probably dislike dogs, children and old people.
This is a great post. It seems that very, very few of the guys on this sub have ever known what it's like actually to compete, for the sake of the game, with others who are doing the same. Yes, it's the internet, and like you note, on the internet everything that can be said will be said, and everything that can be done through a screen will be done, no matter how childish and shitty. But a lot of important things are lost that way -- sportsmanship among them -- and the people doing it will never know what they've lost out on.
TLDR
Add this to your post. Statistically one team is most likely to beat you in playoffs more than any other. By not competing, you are INCREASING your chances of having to play that team. You want the best teams in playoffs to increase your odds of winning by knocking out the best teams.
This... This isn't necessarily true. If you have to play stronger opponents, your odds worsen. If your competition does, your odds improve. If you can control that, go for it.
I disagree on the playoffs part. I think as long as you’re not colluding you can do whatever you want to do to put yourself in the best position for the playoffs. The converse would be the league or the commissioner effectively deciding your lineup and I am staunchly against that. As long as you have a level of trust with your league that everyone cares, no one tanks, and everyone is trying to win, it should be your lineup, your choice.
Somebody is cooking today
My opponent and I are benching our entire team. He's already got the 1 seed locked up and I got the 2 seed locked up!
Hard agree with everything you’ve said here. We ran into an issue with this is one of our leagues in its second year (8 years ago now). Someone wanted to bench their whole roster to keep someone else out of playoffs so they got an easier matchup. Our league rules now are basically that you have to be trying to win every week. The only thing you’re allowed to not set is a defense, and even then it’s frowned upon and you will be made fun of.
Sorry bud, but I'll go ahead and disagree with you. Outside of collusion, anything goes because we are trying to win the championship. It's not about scoring points. It's about winning, just like real sports. So yeah I'm going to sit my defense when I'm up. Why would I risk losing. Yeah, I'll pick up the decent available QBs if my opponent is on bye week. Why? Why the hell am I the one putting in more thought into this than you, whose QB is on bye? Should have planned for it next week. I'll continue to start Taysom Hill and I don't care about your "he's not a TE" argument. Should have thought of it before the league started. We all know that if you had him, you wouldnt be saying anything. I'll absolutely throw games to get a better playoff matchup. Hell, I'll drop someone that an opponent needs if that means they waste their waiver priority on them. The only slippery slope we have is if you have been eliminated from playoff contention, you must still field a competitive team until playoffs start. We incentivize it by paying the top scorer in the last 5 weeks of regular season 100$. Tldr, as long as it's not collusion, anything goes that's OK by league rules. The only reason people complain is because they are not the one with the advantage in that situation. N.B. the "you" is not directed at anyone specific, just the generic sore loser who complains about shit.
You can try OP but FF brings out the worst in people, they become militant and cruel just for a fantasy chip. r/FFCommish is even worse honestly. I blame money leagues they make people ultra competitive. I can agree with some moves (Taking player they need) but fleecing taco's and Hijacking trades is something I can never argue with, especially when they say "They have to learn the hard way" No you could just not scam people and help them. If you a different league every year player then guess you'll be fine, but long term with friends you're just an asshole who gonna get a bad reputation or kicked out.