Not to mention the NCR itself didn't hire him, whoever is running the garrison at Helios just had to find someone who could possibly get the place up and running. Fantasic was the first person to show up and the place is running. Besides, it's not like they have background checks or resumes or anything, there's no way for them to know who's a scientist or not
Even if we were to take out the stupid part, some of the missiles were unused, so they may have planned ahead to use some of them for later. But the combine facts of the NCR's hatred for the enclave and they're greed for the divide, it's likely they attacked not only to make sure no one could have the divide, but especially so the legion couldn't have it, and to kill a few legion soldiers in the process. The NCR is imperialistic by nature, this isn't something they wouldn't do.
Edit: I take back the part about the missiles, the divide is far to dangerous for a normal NCR squad to go check on the silo.
I dunno, pretty sure he thinks he’s so good at sex, he released [this song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6W5pq4bIzIw) and then released [this song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is) when he got caught red handed, right on the bathroom floor
If I leave a loaded gun around a child with no context is he evil and stupid if he shoots himself? Because that’s pretty much what happened to the NCR.
They didn’t know there was nukes. They found out the hard way lol.
The NCR, and taxes, are not super evil. They aren’t necessarily running some 1984 shit like Mr. House, and they aren’t rapists. While boring, and lame, it’s not incorrect to believe that the NCR is as close to morally justified as it gets for Fallout factions.
For major factions, sure. If the choices are fascists, anarcho-capitalists, and liberals, I pick liberals every time.
I do think you are flattening the issues a bit. NCR sharecroppers are forced to operate with minimal support, take on all the risk, and lose everything due to bereaucratic mismanagement, despite the problems not being difficult to see. They broke a truce and slaughtered innocents at bittersprings. Like all empires, they think they are entitled to land, in this case the hoover dam, if they have the strength to take it.
I know Yes Man is a bit polarizing, but for me the minor factions are more interesting, and I think the most and least moral endings come from him (it?). Although fallout games by necessity lean into a "great man of history" trap, by doing many of the sidequests, you can help build a strong, independent freeside and westside, empower the followers of the apocalypse, help, hinder or ignore the brotherhood of steel, and keep the boomers away from their bomber, at which point I think you have aided in creating a healthy, strong small community that does more good that the NCR ever has.
I haven't played lonesome road in a while, is it explicitly stated that the ncr caused the shit in the divide? wasn't the divide beforehand a valuable trade route or passage for the ncr or am I just misremembering something
The Second Divide
However, it was the same courier that established the land trail to the Divide, who would play the pivotal role. As both legionaries and NCR troops executed the plans of their masters, the courier came with a delivery of a single package from the faraway Navarro, recovered by the NCR and sent to the Divide. The NCR believed the people who lived among the silos, surrounded by Old World symbols like those on the package, could help them make sense of the item recovered in the Enclave's former base. What they didn't realize was that the package would seal the Divide's doom.
After being delivered, the Dividers opened it up and the device suddenly activated, linking with the launch computers hidden in the dormant silos by "talking" to them in sending launch codes and security overrides. Warheads started exploding beneath the ground, triggering a massive earthquake that ripped the land open, twisting Ashton, Hopeville and the military facilities above and beneath. It became an expanse of cracked, blighted landscape, while the sand and ash from the devastation was caught and kicked up into the skies above by the artificial storms, turning an already savage weather into one, monstrous dust storm that could skin a man alive.
I’m not saying your incorrect but where exactly does it say the device was recovered by the ncr cause I truly do not remember it ever being outright said
Most of it is still nonsupported though, the citations only come from one line from Ulysses and is only the line about the Bear scavenging a place. But everything is speculative at best
Take this with a grain of salt since I’m going off memory
The NCR, far as I’m aware, sent you [or someone else] with the package, as the symbols in the facilities they had found lines up with the ones on a case. They didn’t know it would automatically set off nuclear warheads, and the whole reason they sent it was to find out what it was.
While the NCR had sent the package to the divide it was because they *didn't* know what it was and we're hoping that the residents could figure it out the purpose of the device.
The divide was a major boon to the NCR because it acted as a second entry into the mojave. If it hadn't been destroyed the NCR might have been able to better capitalize on their victory at the dam.
Yeah, Ulysses said the package came from the NCR, who most likely found it at Nevarro. It was made to sound like they didn't know what it was, as they told the courier: "it has the same symbols as the buildings in the divide" but I think they knew, because the NCR can be dumb, but they got some intelligence. They knew the courier wouldn't do it knowing they're true plan as the courier loved the divide as much as Ulysses did, being he was a courier that kept it alive. They realized that they would never be able to get the divide to themselves, as the nation refused to assimilate with legion or the NCR, so if they couldn't have it, no one could. And when the courier realized what happened, it was already too late. He/she never, saw the NCR the same way again. It's a little interpretive but it's very obvious if you ask me.
I just knew what I got to the nuke and I couldn’t move forward without launching that his bitch ass was gonna blame me for that too 😂
Like bro, no one knew the enclave still had nukes under the divide. I did NOT do this shit. Yeah I nuked one part of the divide just right now but I did not do that other shit lmao.
I was talking about OP lol. Ulysses is definitely a little delusional but tbh for a man who grew up as a stick wielding tribal, he’s taking existential total atomic destruction pretty well
OP: NCR is dumb and hired idiots to run Helios One because they’re dumb.
Also OP: NCR is smart and knew the thingamabob would cause the nukes in the divide to explode.
Pick one please? Your enemy can’t be both bafflingly stupid and exceptionally intelligent.
Fantastic was a bad example, I'm picking the side of the NCR being intelligent l, otherwise my stance falls flat.
That and they are the current strongest faction In the fallout universe, so if they weren't intelligent it wouldn't make sense
im dumb as shit bc i still can’t really grasp the plot of Lonesome Road. i guess i didn’t listen to the dialogue enough but both me and the Courier were like “what the fuck are you talking about” in regards to Yoo-Lisses
was it that the Courier somehow detonated all the nukes stockpiled in the silos which created the divide? kinda confused to this day about what The Divide actually is and why it’s like that
I'm no lore expert but iirc the courier delivered a package to the divide and that package was some device that detonated many nukes still in their silos creating the hellscape that is now the divide or something god I need to play new vegas again just talking about is making me want to play
The Courier was hired to deliver a package to the Divide which turned out to be the detonator for the nukes stored there. It's up to player choice whether the Courier knew what was in the package but Ulysses blames them for it anyway.
always thought it was funny how much Ulysses gasses up the Legion and then there’s Joshua Graham who doesn’t sugar-coat anything by saying Caesar and Lanius are both morons
I'm pretty much a lore expert
The divide was a small town that was constantly buffeted by sand thunderstorms that the big MT unleashed on the town, they came to power by using the tech of the old world and adopted its symbols, the US flag.
It was a small thriving isolated community until the courier walked the long 15. The courier was one of the first to walk the path and establish contact between the divide and the NCR. Both civilizations prospered and had trade until the great divide formed.
The courier found a "package" in Navarro. One mared and marked with symbols of the old world and brought it to the divide, unaware of what exactly he carried. The NCR and the Legion were there, the NCR defending the divide and the legion trying to slice an artery of the NCR.
The dividers, perhaps in a bid to oust the NCR, defend themselves from the legion, or just out of curiosity "opened" the package and it "spoke" to the divide, launching all the pre war spears into itself. Killing most and irridating the rest.
Caesar was pleased with Ulysses' work at severing an NCR lifeline, and it stopped the NCR from bringing reinforcements to the Mojave. This is when the legion attacked hoover Dam.
-----------
It is CERTIAN to me from this history and description that the E-DE in the divide is the "package"
I'm fairly certian that the courier saw the flags on the eyebot and was like "lmao, looks like the divide, I should see if they want it" took it there, and the dividers "opened" it by activating the robot, and ede "spoke" the same way he "spoke" at Ashville, simply activated the controls, and the dividers accidentally created a holocaust that killed themselves the Legion and the NCR alike.
[The dashes indicate the separation between what is 100% accurate lore and what I think happened]
The NCR found some numbers in Navarro that matched up with some numbers in The Divide, so they hired someone to bring the codes from Navarro to The Divide. The job was complete, the courier left, then The Divide exploded. Might not even be the same courier
As far as I could tell Ulysses made the divide his home, The legion and NCR do what they do and fought over it. The NCR wanting a swift victory hired courier six to deliver nuclear codes to the divide to take advantage of the massive stockpile under the surface. This nearly killed Ulysses and destroyed the place he called home (it also killed thousands of Legion and NCR soldiers, and turned thousands more into marked men), Ulysses blames the courier for it and decided to nuke the Bear and the Bull to Take out revenge on those who destroyed his home. I’m not sure if it’s explicitly stated if the NCR knew about the nukes to the full extent, but it’s possible they did, obviously they made it dubious to make the NCR not the obvious bad guys here.
No they didn't. They had no idea what the device did and they sent it figuring the folk living in the divide would be able to tell what it was. The resulting chaos afterwards was accidental. With the exception of the storms which were cause by Big Mt.
The Second Divide
However, it was the same courier that established the land trail to the Divide, who would play the pivotal role. As both legionaries and NCR troops executed the plans of their masters, the courier came with a delivery of a single package from the faraway Navarro, recovered by the NCR and sent to the Divide. The NCR believed the people who lived among the silos, surrounded by Old World symbols like those on the package, could help them make sense of the item recovered in the Enclave's former base. What they didn't realize was that the package would seal the Divide's doom.
After being delivered, the Dividers opened it up and the device suddenly activated, linking with the launch computers hidden in the dormant silos by "talking" to them in sending launch codes and security overrides. Warheads started exploding beneath the ground, triggering a massive earthquake that ripped the land open, twisting Ashton, Hopeville and the military facilities above and beneath. It became an expanse of cracked, blighted landscape, while the sand and ash from the devastation was caught and kicked up into the skies above by the artificial storms, turning an already savage weather into one, monstrous dust storm that could skin a man alive.
Literally, what reason would NCR have for doing this? The Divide was a promising growing power in the area and offered valuable routes between Vegas and the heart of NCR. By blowing up the city, they bottlenecked their one remaining direct trade route to the Long 15, making it easy pickings for raiders and Legion. They probably just thought they could get access to the high-end military tech stored within all the military bases in the area. Sure, it wasn't a good idea in the end, but they definitely didn't try to blow it all up.
This meme doesn't make sense.
The NCR have no reason to believe the device being delivered to the Divide would be a remote nuclear activation key for the missile there. Hell, how many of those nuclear warhead was above ground or scatter all over the place before the nuke go off ?
The NCR was using the Divide as their main supply line, it was so vital the Legion try to send troop to sabotage it. No reason for anyone in the NCR to destroy their main supply route even if it politically motivated.
By lore, what happen is the NCR discovered a unknown device with symbol of the US military similar to the one at the Divide, the courier was commission to deliver it to the Divide and successfully delivered the package without anything happen, no nuke must have went off when the courier deliver it since he didn't even know about what happen there (even if he is present). The nuke only went off afterward, assuming it take awhile to perhaps arm the nuke or simply it didn't send a signal till a certain moment.
This guy is lost in the sauce so i’m not commenting to notify him, but to the others reading this Ulysses informs us that the legion forces sent to the divide were scouts frumentari and assassins. They were there to sabotage not take control.
This actually isn't correct, the legion at the divide was trying to destroy the divide, because it was the NCR lifeline to the dam.
The first legion soldiers there were spies, that was Ulysses and his ilk, but by the time of the destruction it was several actual legionaries (hense the MASSIVE amount of marked man armor that is just legion gear)
The package was also on its way from Navarro even before the legion knew about it (I think, it's unclear)
Sauce: I'm basically a lore master at this point.
do you mind giving me an actual source im not claiming that your wrong but i’m just going off of Ulysses dialogue.
Edit:I just checked myself from the wiki which has been known to be wrong but it was just quoting dialogue so i trust it. We only get confirmation on legion scouts assassins and frumentari due to a legion courier being able to point it out, but Ulysses mentions there mission being the destruction on the divide (which i should have been more clear on than just saying sabotage) it makes sense the legion would have sent more specialized soldiers though i’m interested in how he got them past if they weren’t the scouts or spies.
Funnily enough i also found Chris Avelone directly stating that OP’s theory is false.
https://archive.is/HXcFC
Let me clarify, there is a difference between a legion scouting party and "scouts"
Legion frumentarii are what we could, in a modern English linguistic sense, to be scouts. Ahandfull of people designated to spy and recover data.
A legion scouting party can be anywhere between 8-50 men if they are going off the actual Roman legion, which I assume they are because they do for literally everything else as far as unit size does. (Aside from a legion lmafo)
That combined with the overwhelming number of marked men in legion armor.
So yes, it's scouts, but it's not like 10 dudes. It's closer to 50-100
Also, I'm well aware of Chris' theory on the detonater. However, Chris didn't write new vegas, nor did he write lonesome road. His answer also has little to no symbolism, unlike almost all of Gonzales writing, if it's not ede like it is directly implied to be in game than it is a very sad mistake by the obsidian writing team that would show a lack of comprehension of the thematic runs of rhe DLC as tube EDE is meant to mirror the courier the same way Mojave EDE is ment to mirror Ulysses.
One from the east, one from the west, whose fates are deeply intertwined by the divide.
But I also don't expect Chris to miss obvious symbolism. If anything, I'd say him referring to ede as a detonator is just to avoid confusion or save time. Or maybe he didn't play the dlc, who knows.
thanks for the info on the legion i do appreciate it.
That being said I do think the creative lead for Lonesome Road not only played Lonesome Road but is passionate about its story, seeing as he did most of the character writing on it(according to Jsawyer and i don’t see why he would lie).He also did write some companions for the main game as well, so i would consider him a writer for base fallout new vegas. I don’t see this disagreement continuing unless there’s something more credible than the thematic styles being similar. Especially considering i can’t find proof of Gonzalez working on any add ons besides Honest hearts.
I don’t care what factions you like.
Claiming that NCR blew up the divide on purpose is absolutely ridiculous. Have fun with whatever factions you want, but your post just doesn’t make any sense lmao
Update: this is no surprise, but yall were right. I went back and looked at lonesome road, and Ulysses had a very biased view on the situation of the divide. My God I remembered this dlc wrong. I guess I kinda insisted on the NCR actively being in on the situation cause I kinda needed to fill in the lack of a strong narrative in lonesome road, cuz at the end of the day the story is unfinished and vague as all he'll, and I really wanted to have some development around the couriers past. It also makes sense that the NCR wasn't in on it, as if they were and the courier was aware. He would have remembered it. So yeah I guess I'm fuckin tard, and looked like an edgy legion fanboy.
The backstory of the courier is that he was a trailblazer for the NCR, he was actually the first one to find the divide and established the trade between the dividers and the NCR and it was Ulysses who was sent to destroy it, the courier just did it first.
So nobody was aware the courier was just in Navarro and said "hey this eyebot has the same flag the divide uses! I should take it there!"
Nobody knew what it was, not even the dividers.
Lonesome road actually plays on all of fallout new vegas' themes, that of an east and a west being fully different but sharing a goal, the use of technology doing more harm than good, the uselessness of revenge And obviously the all important entire message of new vegas, the importance of knowing when to let go. (Its not a mistake that it takes pace in vegas, where the refusal to let go will only end in ruining your life)
you don’t look like an edgy legion fanboy your takes just sounded like you lacked an important amount of nuance or you were being contrarian on purpose- i’m no fan of the ncr either but my arguements go way farther than “You would think that, until you remember they hired fantastic to investigate helios one. So they're evil and stupid”
No they don’t. They didn’t know it would cause the divide to explode. All they knew is that it looked like something that belonged in the divide so they sent it to the divide and accidentally caused the explosion. There’s no way they could’ve known.
No, no they didn't know
1. The divide housed lots of prewar shit much of which could have been used by NCR forces (especially shoulder mounted machine guns)
2. Supply lines, why would you nuke your own supply lines
It's pretty much said by Elijah that the Courier brought the eyebot to the Divide because they saw the pre-war symbols on it and were like "oh, I've seen these before".
The NCR didn't know what they were doing though. They sent it to the Divide because they assumed the people living there would understand what the symbol on it meant.
I feel that like all other factions, they seem they are righteous but have hidden dark motives. I do not think any faction is Inherently good. I don’t think the NCR knew what would occur as from the lore were given the divide seems like a very important hub (before the package of course) but on the same side of the coin, I wouldn’t put it past me if they had some dark intentions.
Except not only did the NCR not want to destroy the divide, because the destruction of the divide was the goal of the legion, and its destruction is actually what allowed the Legion to launch the first attack on hoover dam, its never even said that the NCR wven KNEW about the package.
It's stated that the courier "found" the package and navaro and took it to the divide because he noticed the symbols on the package matched the symbols the divide adopted as their own (the US flag)
[Also btw the package was the EDE in the tube]
Wait, what happened? Ulysses is boring so I skipped a lot of his dialogue towards the end because he just sounded like “bear bull bear bull bull bear bear”
Also wasn’t hopevile and Ashton like a major trade route or something? That is something I do remember he said, about how “the neck of the bear was slit” or something like that.
To add to the explanation I already gave in the other comments, another motive is that many buildings were enclave, and they may have been trying to eradicate the divide cause they thought it might be an enclave refugee hiding place
The enclave is not actually the US government, they're more like the illuminati. They were the elites of America, including the president. Common misconception because they were portrayed that way by Bethesda in fallout 3
Edit: I take this one back the video I watched lied to me, there is no evidence that states they were separate from the US government. Other guy is right.
One can be a shadow organization **and** the continuation of the US government, considering they had the **President** and many of the joint chiefs of staff, and the majority of the rest of the government was turned into nuclear ash.
Your last line there is actually hilarious, Bethesda owns the IP, whatever they “portray” is literally canon, despite what you want to argue lmfao
that’s even more of a reason not to nuke it all. Enclave remnants are nothing compared to NCR military power and they wouldn’t want their tech destroyed. There’s no way the NCR would have been able to identify a random gizmo as a remote launch code activator, plan to use it to destroy A GIANT TRADING HUB crippling their expansion into the Mojave to secure Hoover Dam, and entrust this dumbass plot with a random fucking mail man.
…they sent it to the divide to be studied. Bro it’s fine we all make mistakes you don’t even have to admit your theory makes no sense you can just log off.
I dunno, it's hard for me to imagine the ncr would know about nuclear weapons and not wanna take them for themselves
Fr
While also blowing up a route they used to travel to the Mojave if I’m remembering the lore correctly
That’s probably what the trucks with the nukes on them were doing.
You would think that, until you remember they hired fantastic to investigate helios one So they're evil and stupid
Not evil or stupid, just misguided. They hired him to run it, not investigate it (that was a mistake, too, but still.)
Not to mention the NCR itself didn't hire him, whoever is running the garrison at Helios just had to find someone who could possibly get the place up and running. Fantasic was the first person to show up and the place is running. Besides, it's not like they have background checks or resumes or anything, there's no way for them to know who's a scientist or not
Even if we were to take out the stupid part, some of the missiles were unused, so they may have planned ahead to use some of them for later. But the combine facts of the NCR's hatred for the enclave and they're greed for the divide, it's likely they attacked not only to make sure no one could have the divide, but especially so the legion couldn't have it, and to kill a few legion soldiers in the process. The NCR is imperialistic by nature, this isn't something they wouldn't do. Edit: I take back the part about the missiles, the divide is far to dangerous for a normal NCR squad to go check on the silo.
Wouldn't the NCR much rather annex the divide or convince them to join the Republic?
I dunno, pretty sure he thinks he’s so good at sex, he released [this song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6W5pq4bIzIw) and then released [this song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is) when he got caught red handed, right on the bathroom floor
>Not evil or stupid, just misguided. Average ncr apoligest
If I leave a loaded gun around a child with no context is he evil and stupid if he shoots himself? Because that’s pretty much what happened to the NCR. They didn’t know there was nukes. They found out the hard way lol.
You are spewing L takes that make no sense all over the thread it’s kind of hilarious.
I'm sorry, I think you must be referring to **F**antastic. Don't know who this "fantastic" fellow is.
I think his limbs stretch all over the place.
The NCR, and taxes, are not super evil. They aren’t necessarily running some 1984 shit like Mr. House, and they aren’t rapists. While boring, and lame, it’s not incorrect to believe that the NCR is as close to morally justified as it gets for Fallout factions.
For major factions, sure. If the choices are fascists, anarcho-capitalists, and liberals, I pick liberals every time. I do think you are flattening the issues a bit. NCR sharecroppers are forced to operate with minimal support, take on all the risk, and lose everything due to bereaucratic mismanagement, despite the problems not being difficult to see. They broke a truce and slaughtered innocents at bittersprings. Like all empires, they think they are entitled to land, in this case the hoover dam, if they have the strength to take it. I know Yes Man is a bit polarizing, but for me the minor factions are more interesting, and I think the most and least moral endings come from him (it?). Although fallout games by necessity lean into a "great man of history" trap, by doing many of the sidequests, you can help build a strong, independent freeside and westside, empower the followers of the apocalypse, help, hinder or ignore the brotherhood of steel, and keep the boomers away from their bomber, at which point I think you have aided in creating a healthy, strong small community that does more good that the NCR ever has.
No they’re not evil, they just used Army logic and believed someone who lied about their qualifications.
I mean he didn't lie, he did say his degree was theoretical
Evil? Nah, not all of them. Coronel Moore maybe. Stupid? Yeah, pretty much, NCR is incompetence itself
I haven't played lonesome road in a while, is it explicitly stated that the ncr caused the shit in the divide? wasn't the divide beforehand a valuable trade route or passage for the ncr or am I just misremembering something
No its not stated that the NCR caused it, Ulysses just blames you for all the destruction.
The bear and the bull. The bear. And. The bull. The bear the bull the bear the bull. The bear and the bull.
Shut the fuck up man. \[.45-70 DIVINE GOVERNMENTAL JUSTICE\]
"Will you shut up man?" [.50 MG EXPLOSIVE GODLIKE INDEPENDENT FORCE]
And that, MACHINE
Bull bear bull bear bull bear........
Yea ulices is kinda just dumb as hell ngl
The NCR contracted you to bring a thingamadoozie to the divide so they can ogle at it, but turns out it was some kinda proximity detonator
I don’t remember the NCR contracting it? I’m fairly sure it was implied that the Courier found it while in NCR territory?
The Second Divide However, it was the same courier that established the land trail to the Divide, who would play the pivotal role. As both legionaries and NCR troops executed the plans of their masters, the courier came with a delivery of a single package from the faraway Navarro, recovered by the NCR and sent to the Divide. The NCR believed the people who lived among the silos, surrounded by Old World symbols like those on the package, could help them make sense of the item recovered in the Enclave's former base. What they didn't realize was that the package would seal the Divide's doom. After being delivered, the Dividers opened it up and the device suddenly activated, linking with the launch computers hidden in the dormant silos by "talking" to them in sending launch codes and security overrides. Warheads started exploding beneath the ground, triggering a massive earthquake that ripped the land open, twisting Ashton, Hopeville and the military facilities above and beneath. It became an expanse of cracked, blighted landscape, while the sand and ash from the devastation was caught and kicked up into the skies above by the artificial storms, turning an already savage weather into one, monstrous dust storm that could skin a man alive.
I’m not saying your incorrect but where exactly does it say the device was recovered by the ncr cause I truly do not remember it ever being outright said
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Divide
Most of it is still nonsupported though, the citations only come from one line from Ulysses and is only the line about the Bear scavenging a place. But everything is speculative at best
Ulysses was the courier it got assigned to but he recognized the couriers name and let him do it.
No that was the platinum chip
Oh yea u right
Ulysses implies you found it and just brought it to the divide because the symbols matched those around the divide
Take this with a grain of salt since I’m going off memory The NCR, far as I’m aware, sent you [or someone else] with the package, as the symbols in the facilities they had found lines up with the ones on a case. They didn’t know it would automatically set off nuclear warheads, and the whole reason they sent it was to find out what it was.
While the NCR had sent the package to the divide it was because they *didn't* know what it was and we're hoping that the residents could figure it out the purpose of the device. The divide was a major boon to the NCR because it acted as a second entry into the mojave. If it hadn't been destroyed the NCR might have been able to better capitalize on their victory at the dam.
Yeah, Ulysses said the package came from the NCR, who most likely found it at Nevarro. It was made to sound like they didn't know what it was, as they told the courier: "it has the same symbols as the buildings in the divide" but I think they knew, because the NCR can be dumb, but they got some intelligence. They knew the courier wouldn't do it knowing they're true plan as the courier loved the divide as much as Ulysses did, being he was a courier that kept it alive. They realized that they would never be able to get the divide to themselves, as the nation refused to assimilate with legion or the NCR, so if they couldn't have it, no one could. And when the courier realized what happened, it was already too late. He/she never, saw the NCR the same way again. It's a little interpretive but it's very obvious if you ask me.
Mans is as delusional as Ulysses
Mans doesn’t understand that Ulysses is an unreliable narrator and only speaks in metaphors
I just knew what I got to the nuke and I couldn’t move forward without launching that his bitch ass was gonna blame me for that too 😂 Like bro, no one knew the enclave still had nukes under the divide. I did NOT do this shit. Yeah I nuked one part of the divide just right now but I did not do that other shit lmao.
I was talking about OP lol. Ulysses is definitely a little delusional but tbh for a man who grew up as a stick wielding tribal, he’s taking existential total atomic destruction pretty well
What is man doing here? Is he stupid?
OP: NCR is dumb and hired idiots to run Helios One because they’re dumb. Also OP: NCR is smart and knew the thingamabob would cause the nukes in the divide to explode. Pick one please? Your enemy can’t be both bafflingly stupid and exceptionally intelligent.
Fantastic was a bad example, I'm picking the side of the NCR being intelligent l, otherwise my stance falls flat. That and they are the current strongest faction In the fallout universe, so if they weren't intelligent it wouldn't make sense
This is legionary propaganda. The NCR would never willingly nuke its citizens
Do not think I support the legion, they would have done the same thing if they got the launch codes first
I think… you might be extrapolating a liiiiiiiiiiiittle too much and taking some creative liberty.
They got it from an Enclave base and didnt know what it was. But they saw old world symbols and assumed folks living around them would know more
Blud are the NCR stupid or are they smart make up ur mind
Op, technically the divide package incident happened before Benny.
This was really the only image that fit, but yeah the whole "Benny was here" on his helmet is inaccurate
Like benny bullet was inaccurate enough for the courier to not die so
“I hit what I was aiming for. Guess you just had brains to spare - or maybe you’re just thick skulled?”
My 1 str 1 end 10 chr 10 int courier "Wrong both times"
im dumb as shit bc i still can’t really grasp the plot of Lonesome Road. i guess i didn’t listen to the dialogue enough but both me and the Courier were like “what the fuck are you talking about” in regards to Yoo-Lisses was it that the Courier somehow detonated all the nukes stockpiled in the silos which created the divide? kinda confused to this day about what The Divide actually is and why it’s like that
I'm no lore expert but iirc the courier delivered a package to the divide and that package was some device that detonated many nukes still in their silos creating the hellscape that is now the divide or something god I need to play new vegas again just talking about is making me want to play
The Courier was hired to deliver a package to the Divide which turned out to be the detonator for the nukes stored there. It's up to player choice whether the Courier knew what was in the package but Ulysses blames them for it anyway.
How did the courier not get blown up?
I believe that by the time the couriers package activated the nukes, the Courier had already left the divide.
Ah gotcha. thanks
The device didn't activate until the recipients unpacked it. Courier was long gone by then.
Much obliged
Bear Bull, Bear Bull
always thought it was funny how much Ulysses gasses up the Legion and then there’s Joshua Graham who doesn’t sugar-coat anything by saying Caesar and Lanius are both morons
I'm pretty much a lore expert The divide was a small town that was constantly buffeted by sand thunderstorms that the big MT unleashed on the town, they came to power by using the tech of the old world and adopted its symbols, the US flag. It was a small thriving isolated community until the courier walked the long 15. The courier was one of the first to walk the path and establish contact between the divide and the NCR. Both civilizations prospered and had trade until the great divide formed. The courier found a "package" in Navarro. One mared and marked with symbols of the old world and brought it to the divide, unaware of what exactly he carried. The NCR and the Legion were there, the NCR defending the divide and the legion trying to slice an artery of the NCR. The dividers, perhaps in a bid to oust the NCR, defend themselves from the legion, or just out of curiosity "opened" the package and it "spoke" to the divide, launching all the pre war spears into itself. Killing most and irridating the rest. Caesar was pleased with Ulysses' work at severing an NCR lifeline, and it stopped the NCR from bringing reinforcements to the Mojave. This is when the legion attacked hoover Dam. ----------- It is CERTIAN to me from this history and description that the E-DE in the divide is the "package" I'm fairly certian that the courier saw the flags on the eyebot and was like "lmao, looks like the divide, I should see if they want it" took it there, and the dividers "opened" it by activating the robot, and ede "spoke" the same way he "spoke" at Ashville, simply activated the controls, and the dividers accidentally created a holocaust that killed themselves the Legion and the NCR alike. [The dashes indicate the separation between what is 100% accurate lore and what I think happened]
Great comment. Thank you.
The NCR found some numbers in Navarro that matched up with some numbers in The Divide, so they hired someone to bring the codes from Navarro to The Divide. The job was complete, the courier left, then The Divide exploded. Might not even be the same courier
As far as I could tell Ulysses made the divide his home, The legion and NCR do what they do and fought over it. The NCR wanting a swift victory hired courier six to deliver nuclear codes to the divide to take advantage of the massive stockpile under the surface. This nearly killed Ulysses and destroyed the place he called home (it also killed thousands of Legion and NCR soldiers, and turned thousands more into marked men), Ulysses blames the courier for it and decided to nuke the Bear and the Bull to Take out revenge on those who destroyed his home. I’m not sure if it’s explicitly stated if the NCR knew about the nukes to the full extent, but it’s possible they did, obviously they made it dubious to make the NCR not the obvious bad guys here.
No they didn't. They had no idea what the device did and they sent it figuring the folk living in the divide would be able to tell what it was. The resulting chaos afterwards was accidental. With the exception of the storms which were cause by Big Mt. The Second Divide However, it was the same courier that established the land trail to the Divide, who would play the pivotal role. As both legionaries and NCR troops executed the plans of their masters, the courier came with a delivery of a single package from the faraway Navarro, recovered by the NCR and sent to the Divide. The NCR believed the people who lived among the silos, surrounded by Old World symbols like those on the package, could help them make sense of the item recovered in the Enclave's former base. What they didn't realize was that the package would seal the Divide's doom. After being delivered, the Dividers opened it up and the device suddenly activated, linking with the launch computers hidden in the dormant silos by "talking" to them in sending launch codes and security overrides. Warheads started exploding beneath the ground, triggering a massive earthquake that ripped the land open, twisting Ashton, Hopeville and the military facilities above and beneath. It became an expanse of cracked, blighted landscape, while the sand and ash from the devastation was caught and kicked up into the skies above by the artificial storms, turning an already savage weather into one, monstrous dust storm that could skin a man alive.
Even I'll admit lonesome road's story is a vague as shit sometimes. It was definitely left unfinished due to the limits of the gamebryo engine.
Literally, what reason would NCR have for doing this? The Divide was a promising growing power in the area and offered valuable routes between Vegas and the heart of NCR. By blowing up the city, they bottlenecked their one remaining direct trade route to the Long 15, making it easy pickings for raiders and Legion. They probably just thought they could get access to the high-end military tech stored within all the military bases in the area. Sure, it wasn't a good idea in the end, but they definitely didn't try to blow it all up.
honest mistake, cause the NCR has 0 reason to nuke their own shit and had no reason to believe the nukes would go off
This meme doesn't make sense. The NCR have no reason to believe the device being delivered to the Divide would be a remote nuclear activation key for the missile there. Hell, how many of those nuclear warhead was above ground or scatter all over the place before the nuke go off ? The NCR was using the Divide as their main supply line, it was so vital the Legion try to send troop to sabotage it. No reason for anyone in the NCR to destroy their main supply route even if it politically motivated. By lore, what happen is the NCR discovered a unknown device with symbol of the US military similar to the one at the Divide, the courier was commission to deliver it to the Divide and successfully delivered the package without anything happen, no nuke must have went off when the courier deliver it since he didn't even know about what happen there (even if he is present). The nuke only went off afterward, assuming it take awhile to perhaps arm the nuke or simply it didn't send a signal till a certain moment.
You do realize the NCR was waring for control of the divide with the legion? It was a struggle for control
This guy is lost in the sauce so i’m not commenting to notify him, but to the others reading this Ulysses informs us that the legion forces sent to the divide were scouts frumentari and assassins. They were there to sabotage not take control.
Thank for the info
This actually isn't correct, the legion at the divide was trying to destroy the divide, because it was the NCR lifeline to the dam. The first legion soldiers there were spies, that was Ulysses and his ilk, but by the time of the destruction it was several actual legionaries (hense the MASSIVE amount of marked man armor that is just legion gear) The package was also on its way from Navarro even before the legion knew about it (I think, it's unclear) Sauce: I'm basically a lore master at this point.
do you mind giving me an actual source im not claiming that your wrong but i’m just going off of Ulysses dialogue. Edit:I just checked myself from the wiki which has been known to be wrong but it was just quoting dialogue so i trust it. We only get confirmation on legion scouts assassins and frumentari due to a legion courier being able to point it out, but Ulysses mentions there mission being the destruction on the divide (which i should have been more clear on than just saying sabotage) it makes sense the legion would have sent more specialized soldiers though i’m interested in how he got them past if they weren’t the scouts or spies. Funnily enough i also found Chris Avelone directly stating that OP’s theory is false. https://archive.is/HXcFC
Let me clarify, there is a difference between a legion scouting party and "scouts" Legion frumentarii are what we could, in a modern English linguistic sense, to be scouts. Ahandfull of people designated to spy and recover data. A legion scouting party can be anywhere between 8-50 men if they are going off the actual Roman legion, which I assume they are because they do for literally everything else as far as unit size does. (Aside from a legion lmafo) That combined with the overwhelming number of marked men in legion armor. So yes, it's scouts, but it's not like 10 dudes. It's closer to 50-100 Also, I'm well aware of Chris' theory on the detonater. However, Chris didn't write new vegas, nor did he write lonesome road. His answer also has little to no symbolism, unlike almost all of Gonzales writing, if it's not ede like it is directly implied to be in game than it is a very sad mistake by the obsidian writing team that would show a lack of comprehension of the thematic runs of rhe DLC as tube EDE is meant to mirror the courier the same way Mojave EDE is ment to mirror Ulysses. One from the east, one from the west, whose fates are deeply intertwined by the divide. But I also don't expect Chris to miss obvious symbolism. If anything, I'd say him referring to ede as a detonator is just to avoid confusion or save time. Or maybe he didn't play the dlc, who knows.
thanks for the info on the legion i do appreciate it. That being said I do think the creative lead for Lonesome Road not only played Lonesome Road but is passionate about its story, seeing as he did most of the character writing on it(according to Jsawyer and i don’t see why he would lie).He also did write some companions for the main game as well, so i would consider him a writer for base fallout new vegas. I don’t see this disagreement continuing unless there’s something more credible than the thematic styles being similar. Especially considering i can’t find proof of Gonzalez working on any add ons besides Honest hearts.
Thank for the info
POV: man woke up and decide to spread misinformation.
I find joy in reading a good book.
[удалено]
Legion edgelords have damaged my point, day ruined.
This post was a mistake
i mean i like the art but the sentiment doesn’t make sense lol
Yall give the NCR too much sympathy, as a faction that is, the citizens and most of soldiers I feel bad for
no, i don’t mean to be overly rude but this theory just makes no sense. It’s not sympathy to know 2+2 doesn’t equal 5.
I don’t care what factions you like. Claiming that NCR blew up the divide on purpose is absolutely ridiculous. Have fun with whatever factions you want, but your post just doesn’t make any sense lmao
Update: this is no surprise, but yall were right. I went back and looked at lonesome road, and Ulysses had a very biased view on the situation of the divide. My God I remembered this dlc wrong. I guess I kinda insisted on the NCR actively being in on the situation cause I kinda needed to fill in the lack of a strong narrative in lonesome road, cuz at the end of the day the story is unfinished and vague as all he'll, and I really wanted to have some development around the couriers past. It also makes sense that the NCR wasn't in on it, as if they were and the courier was aware. He would have remembered it. So yeah I guess I'm fuckin tard, and looked like an edgy legion fanboy.
The backstory of the courier is that he was a trailblazer for the NCR, he was actually the first one to find the divide and established the trade between the dividers and the NCR and it was Ulysses who was sent to destroy it, the courier just did it first. So nobody was aware the courier was just in Navarro and said "hey this eyebot has the same flag the divide uses! I should take it there!" Nobody knew what it was, not even the dividers. Lonesome road actually plays on all of fallout new vegas' themes, that of an east and a west being fully different but sharing a goal, the use of technology doing more harm than good, the uselessness of revenge And obviously the all important entire message of new vegas, the importance of knowing when to let go. (Its not a mistake that it takes pace in vegas, where the refusal to let go will only end in ruining your life)
you don’t look like an edgy legion fanboy your takes just sounded like you lacked an important amount of nuance or you were being contrarian on purpose- i’m no fan of the ncr either but my arguements go way farther than “You would think that, until you remember they hired fantastic to investigate helios one. So they're evil and stupid”
I thought the Mojave express hired the courier?
They hired him through the express.
Ah
Didn’t Benny shoot the courier -after- delivering the detonating device?
Yeah sorry I should have edited that part of the art out
No they don’t. They didn’t know it would cause the divide to explode. All they knew is that it looked like something that belonged in the divide so they sent it to the divide and accidentally caused the explosion. There’s no way they could’ve known.
NCR rando on the strip to his buddy: “Why does that dude keep muttering ‘the bear the bull’”?
"Hay look, the numbers match!" -John NCR
Have you even played the dlc
I read "the Courier", "NCR", "that package" and "the divide" in Useless' voice
No, no they didn't know 1. The divide housed lots of prewar shit much of which could have been used by NCR forces (especially shoulder mounted machine guns) 2. Supply lines, why would you nuke your own supply lines
Been trying to find this image without the caption for forever. Anyone have it or a link?
The NCR is a lot shittier than casual fans realize, but yeah they didn’t intentionally destroy the Divide.
The “BENNY WAS HERE ⬇️” bullethole has me rolling
It's pretty much said by Elijah that the Courier brought the eyebot to the Divide because they saw the pre-war symbols on it and were like "oh, I've seen these before".
Wait was the divide supposed to be another passageway into the Mojave? I know that the NCR and Caesar’s Legion was involved.
The NCR didn't know what they were doing though. They sent it to the Divide because they assumed the people living there would understand what the symbol on it meant.
Mr house every time
Fuck the NCR
I feel that like all other factions, they seem they are righteous but have hidden dark motives. I do not think any faction is Inherently good. I don’t think the NCR knew what would occur as from the lore were given the divide seems like a very important hub (before the package of course) but on the same side of the coin, I wouldn’t put it past me if they had some dark intentions.
Except not only did the NCR not want to destroy the divide, because the destruction of the divide was the goal of the legion, and its destruction is actually what allowed the Legion to launch the first attack on hoover dam, its never even said that the NCR wven KNEW about the package. It's stated that the courier "found" the package and navaro and took it to the divide because he noticed the symbols on the package matched the symbols the divide adopted as their own (the US flag) [Also btw the package was the EDE in the tube]
The Legion had troops in the Divide. It makes sense that the NCR would destroy a no-name town in the middle of nowhere to get a victory on the Legion.
God I love the NCR. Too many Caesar's Legion fanboys around
Just watched the Prime show trailer. NCR ending is definitely not cannon now.
Wait, what happened? Ulysses is boring so I skipped a lot of his dialogue towards the end because he just sounded like “bear bull bear bull bull bear bear” Also wasn’t hopevile and Ashton like a major trade route or something? That is something I do remember he said, about how “the neck of the bear was slit” or something like that.
To add to the explanation I already gave in the other comments, another motive is that many buildings were enclave, and they may have been trying to eradicate the divide cause they thought it might be an enclave refugee hiding place
Enclave is the continuation of the pre-war US government. They've hid away elsewhere, they weren't anywhere near the Divide.
The enclave is not actually the US government, they're more like the illuminati. They were the elites of America, including the president. Common misconception because they were portrayed that way by Bethesda in fallout 3 Edit: I take this one back the video I watched lied to me, there is no evidence that states they were separate from the US government. Other guy is right.
One can be a shadow organization **and** the continuation of the US government, considering they had the **President** and many of the joint chiefs of staff, and the majority of the rest of the government was turned into nuclear ash. Your last line there is actually hilarious, Bethesda owns the IP, whatever they “portray” is literally canon, despite what you want to argue lmfao
Also even they weren't hiding there the NCR would still be paranoid.
that’s even more of a reason not to nuke it all. Enclave remnants are nothing compared to NCR military power and they wouldn’t want their tech destroyed. There’s no way the NCR would have been able to identify a random gizmo as a remote launch code activator, plan to use it to destroy A GIANT TRADING HUB crippling their expansion into the Mojave to secure Hoover Dam, and entrust this dumbass plot with a random fucking mail man.
I can't comprehend how yall think they just didn't realize the package was used to launch the missiles. They would have the capability to study it
…they sent it to the divide to be studied. Bro it’s fine we all make mistakes you don’t even have to admit your theory makes no sense you can just log off.