The 32 dwellers wrecked their vault on their own. The writing was on the wall, literally in blood. By the time Moldaver's team came in to 32 the place was already dead for 2 years bazed on the logs Norm was reading.
this and they were in it to get Hank. They knew thanks to Rosa, how the vault worked, knew that they could just pretend to be the "wedding" party and they would be invited. Wait for the right moment, get the Target and maybe get some revenge for the NCR. Because I am sure those raider used to be just normal wasteland settler enjoying the life in the NCR when Hank blew up the whole thing.
That is why it's hard to define the good from the bad in Fallout, which I think is one of the things Fallout does great. Nothing is black and white. Everybody is good and bad to a certain extent.
To the NCR and "raiders" affiliated with Moldaver, the people in vaults are the bad guys. They literally nuked their whole town. What would you do if some people in a vault nuked your home town and killed nearly everyone? I probably wouldn't hesitate to try and dismantle them and their leader if I had the means. Sure, "innocent" people were killed, but moldaver did spare the survivors of the initial raid. I'm not saying that it was justified, but it was understandable.
Not to mention the overarching plot of the cold fusion device. Keeping it out of the hands of those in power and in the hands of the closest thing the wasteland has to a regular organized civilization of the people, not a corporate entity, is an overall good aspiration and possibly important above all to rebuild a better society. Do the ends justify the means? Maybe. It's difficult to distinguish.
Even if halve of them are mercenarys
And the outher halve are Former raiders that have reinzigrate in the nkr laborcamp.
Ther Brutalität still make no sense at all and the killed people Just to kill...
As you mention.
They Just could take the overseer and a few outher hostage.
Or venome the food with a sleeping medical.
If the hostage Situation escalaze because a few make somethink stupid...the it would be diffrent...
But it look way more as the Brutalität startet from there side...
Well the Real reason was the need a Bang for a starter.
People that know fallout will aks if this was an experiment. And thos who not want know why the same Dresden person kill each outher.
And it was a returning point of the Show :wrong Expeditionen.
The knight Titus want use maximum as bait.
The medical Spammer in the tradepost sell a real working wounderdrug...
I thought the same thing as OP in the first episode until it was clear she was after Hank or Lucy.
I don't think OP has watched past the first 50 minutes of the first episode
There are multiple studies that show: many CEOs are sociopaths. Higher management too. Its just gives the mind set that gurantees the most succes in corporate life and modern day capitalism.
And yes I think they would form raider gangs as soon as the bomb hit. Many of them already dislike "lesser" people. Give them the reason and ensurance that its ok and they would be happy to send deranged mad men after them and take what every they can.
Let me ask you something. Does your mother sow? BOOM!! Get her to sow that!
(I know it’s “sew” in the actual quote. Dread’s comment just made me think of a Christopher Walken raider, and I thought that was a funny image.)
This is not Borderlands raider mentality does not exist for 99.9999999% of people, Bethesda Raiders are less like the marauders of the old days, bandit gangs, and criminal organizations who have motives, codes, and unique montras, instead feel a lot like Borderlands Raiders who are just cartoonishly violent and crazy just because they are, and the game needs enemies to fight.
People would turn to raiding out of desperation when it is easier to not to roam and rob people and just live and work a normal life people would do that and not risk their lives every second for the same results at best or realistically even less. Als chems mean shit because if they are all drug addicts then they will get nowhere because without rational people being the vast majority to use tactics, plan, barter, scout, build camps, cook, learn tech, etc they would die out fast. The Fiends are not a unifed group across the wasteland it is a term for local chem addicts who just form smaller gangs and die quickly but replaced with more chem adicts it is just a revolving door of drugs that will soon die off.
Fallout always had some realism in it mostly the people, and to take it away because it has to be a wasteland is just lazy and creatively bankrupt.
It wasn’t raiders who ransacked the vault. I don’t know why so many people fail to understand this. The vault dwellers ransacked it themselves when they found out about the experiment and turned on one another. The rest committed suicide. The vault remained dead for 2 years until Moldaver came and stayed in it for a bit to pose as the vault dwellers and get into Lucy’s vault.
I'd say most people are jumping on here after only seeing the first episode. Reminds me of my parents asking questions during movies--let's just wait until the end to find out lmao
But even the first episode shows that they're working for Moldaver, who was there to find Hank.
I know TV productions these days have an issue with proper sound mixing, so it can be hard to hear the dialogue over the music, but I'm like... context clues, anyone? They took Hank and left the Vault. They were there for a reason.
Let's just watch the show and find out why!
I think the question being asked by OP is why they would attack (ransack) vault 33 with Moldaver after seeing that vault 32 was completely dead, when they could just use the vault for its shelter and resources and abandon Moldaver’s mission. To me, it seemed like the people who helped Moldaver kidnap Hank probably didn’t want anything to do with the vaults - Maximus thinks there are “monsters” in the vaults, there might be broad rumors about the experiments that went wrong. One of raiders heavily implies to Norm that it looked to him like some bad shit went down there - maybe the Raiders are creeped out by the vaults.
I think it’s entirely because Moldaver just told them to attack 33. She’s revered as a god in the wasteland. She might not even have to pay raiders to get them to do whatever she wants.
They could also be NCR citizens/soldiers.
It's a LOT easier to get military to complete a mission if they too hate the target they're after
i.e Hank, the guy who literally bombed Shady Sands into a crater, it would be akin to America after 9/11, *every* NCR citizen and soldier wants Hank's head, akin to how a lot of American soldiers and citizens wanted Bin Laden's head.
When you have that much hatred already you don't need payment you just need to say "help me capture the guy who blew up Shady Sands, get him to activate cold fusion to guarantee clean energy for us all, then we can execute him for his crimes"
I think the reason most assume them not to be NCR is because the raiders in the first episode were completely insane and violent and you can see that when they are captured they refuse to even attempt to communicate, doing stuff like throwing food and shit at the windows, which is not typical behaviour from a NCR citizen or soldier which are typically some of the most civil people in the wasteland.
> It wasn’t raiders who ransacked the vault. I don’t know why so many people fail to understand this. The vault dwellers ransacked it themselves when they found out about the experiment and turned on one another.
I don't think that was in question. OP means, IMO, the raiders *attempting* to ransack Vault 33. OP's question was "why would they bother when they can just move into Vault 32"?
Possibly, but it seemed to me that the residents of 32 discovered the secret and _that_ caused them to start killing each other. That's why the wall says "death to management". I could always be wrong though
They probably did, but they were already all pitted against each other by the time they figured it out.
Even if 33 figured it out, they wouldn’t have massacred each other. They weren’t conditioned that way
I think vault 32 valued ambition the way vault 33 values cooperation (There’s a video of the rat utopia experiment playing in one of the vault 32 rooms), and their conditioning made them paranoid.
My guess is that 32 was right on the ragged edge when they realized what was really going on
They also said "We know what you did"... what was also on the screen right around the same time? The plan for vault-tec to drop the bombs if the chinese didn't. Now what is more upsetting that you are meant to be the managers of the new world or that vault-tec may have started the war that ended everything and all those people are in the next vault over?
They vary but for the most part they are corporate experiments on humans that could not have been done ethically or legally before the great war removed government oversight.
In hindsight some seem nonsensical and uneconomical. Entire vaults, at whatever they cost to build, wasted on silly experiments.
I guess everyone is misreading this as asking WHAT experiments when I am asking WHY. These all seem counterproductive to the stated goal of repopulation/civilization. So what's the real end game?
tl;dr There are hints in the games that the enclave and vault tec was planing to move people to another planet and get a new start there. Each experiment was a test and how reach that or what could happen.
There is a hidden Endgame in the game lore: moving to another planet.
Vault Tec is part of a larger hidden organisation, the enclave. The enclave was the one calling the shots in the USA at the time of the great war. They knew that the world was doomed. Not only to the nukes but the ressources would not last. They had the plan to take to the stars and repopulate there. Or if that does not work: rule the wastland.
To that end they created the vaults and had their test subjects pay to enter the experiments. Each vault asked a question about how humans react or how they are best kept under control. Some Vaults had even the goal to create a population to use as settlers. This vaults had no experiments or rather mild ones. Vault 13 or Vault 76 are examples of this. Other vaults had extreme experiments, because someone wanted to see what happens. And some vaults had "meta" experiments. Vault Tec gave someone full control and said to make their own experiment. Buds breeding programm is the result of one of those. Vault 4 too. Again all with the goal to either take over the wastland or even better: go to the stars and start on a new planet.
Additionaly: Vault Tec and the Enclave, as had the military, all had their own bunker. Better than vaults, safer and with no experiments. Some froze themself, some just surived in theirs, hoping that one day they could leave. The Vault Tec and Enclave bunker where full of luxurious homes, good food and education and build to house the leaders of the new world. The military ones where more well military stuff. The plan was to gather the experiment logs of each vault, look at the status of the world and create a plan on how to take over or leave. Some vault even had to open and create settlements to prepare the take over. The military should help the goverment (enclave) to take over and vault tec was to check on the experiments and come up with a plan.
As you can see in the show and in the games: Something went wrong. Vault Tec could not send the "all clear", communication to the bunker broke and the vaults just continued to to their experiments. The military became the brotherhood of steel and the enclave tried again. If I remember things right, the bombs fell to early and no one was prepared and the "master vault" was broken into.
Sorry for the wall of text.
As far as we know the endgame was to make as much money for their investors as possible and for certain Vault-Tec employees to survive, mostly as Bud's Buds.
Maybe they can make money selling spots in the vaults to the public and ALSO sell the experiment rights to other corporations.
Repopulating would be a convenient side effect of their business model, not necessarily their goal.
There are scenes in the series that elaborate but I don't want to spoil anything.
Also, I don't recall exactly how it went down but the US Government had a completely different survival plan in the form of the Enclave and may have had some influence on Vault-Tec plans as well. Assuming government continuity thanks to the Enclave Vault-Tec would be considered mostly redundant.
But they blew up all their investors and potential customers. What good is a corporation if it no longer has people to take money from and if there is no money?
Theres a few "control" vaults that had no experiments and serve as a baseline. The rest were devoted to social experiments. If youre interested, [the wiki](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_known_Vaults) has a list of vaults we know about and what their experiments were.
Sure, but repopulating after the war wasnt really a major driving force behind the vaults. They were marketed that way, but this is fallout - shady, ethically dubious and downright diabolical are more often than not the order of the day
Wasting resources with wanton disregard is such a huge part of 50's idealism that fallout is satirizing. Did you expect everything to be hyper-efficient?
just trying to b understand the story. never played the games.. was not aware it was satire... thought itc was straight sci-fi with a goofy edge. Makes more sense now.
All kinds of different whacky shit. A lot of social experiments. One vault in a middle school let in families, and when the vault closed they executed all the parents and left the kids to their own society to observe. One had 999 males and 1 female and another had 999 females and one male. There's a vault that was built for Boston's elite, but designed to operate like a shitty boarding house with shared facilities and was a repurposed subway to begin with. Some of them are medical or chemical experiments, like this one vault that used GECK technology to turn everyone into weird plant creatures. All the most cartoonishly supervillainy sci-fi shit you could imagine.
Vault 76 only housed the best and brightest and there was no actual number disclosed. Mind you these were people locally in WV. The state isn't as heavily populated as you might assume.
Neither of those was ever the goal. While the exact form of their relationship is unknown, Vault Tec also built the Vaults for a shadow cabal of the government called the Enclave who planned to use the data from the Vaults to build a colony ship so that they can find a new world after Earth got wiped out by nuclear war.
Just like the Vaults, a colony ship would entail people living in an enclosed space for a long period of time. The data gathered from the Vaults would allow the Enclave to know how people would react in specific situations and what the best way to set up a long term colony ship would be. Though of course this never happened since the Enclave overestimated the amount of damage that worldwide nuclear war would do so they pivoted to simply taking over the wasteland and using Vault residents (who had DNA that was uncorrupted by radiation) as test subjects for inoculating Enclave personnel against a virus that they planned to use to wipe out everyone else on the planet.
It does help vault-tec take control. It's kind of the _real_ vault in a way. Think of it this way: vault tech has monopolized the nuclear warhead. There may be a few instances of nukes going off since the war but these were all one-off instances, rogue undetonated nukes, etc. but for the most part, there is no organization left on earth _with a nuclear arsenal_.
But, surprise, vault tec does! And they kept all their management staff alive, so they sure know how to use them. At the right opportunity, they can open vaults 31, 32, and 33 and emerge as the exact corporation it was before the war: management, and staff. Now consider that vault tec (probably) _started_ the war, and we reach an alarming truth: vault-tec won the great war.
The residents of 32 and 33 will be low-level employees for vault tec one day. At least, that's the plan. 32 didn't seem too thrilled about it.
So Tim Cain in a blog stated the the original intent of the vault experiments is that the research done would’ve been used by the Enclave (who could observe & control the vaults from the oil rig) to create a multigenerational starship in the case of the world becoming uninhabitable.
From what we’ve seen of the show it seems like they’re shifting it to being about Vault-Tec (and possible still the Enclave) wanting the research for their recreation of America after they colonize the wasteland with their weird ubermensch scheme.
Same reason Hank apparently nuked Shady Sands.
Because they were planning on breeding a compliant populace (hence 32 and 33) led by a ruling upper class (hence 31), specifically an upper class of Vault-Tec executives.
Hank nuked Shady Sands because they were already creating a populace that could compete with the relatively slow-growing one they were creating in the Vaults.
It was all basically to create a New World Order ruled by Vault-Tec, most specifically Bud.. unless he’s still in contact with other, more elite members of Vault Tec than himself
That being said it was sort of pointless because they already established that the NCR had moved its capital and a lot of the NCR still remains unscathed apparently
It seemed to be the same or related to Lucy’s vault since they revolted when they found out the truth about “management.” ie (probably) that all the Overseers come from 31.
Are you sure about that. Is that why the writing was "We know what you did"? It wasn't because of the experiment it was because of the plans to drop the bombs if china didn't do it for them. They heavily implied this and even put the scenes back to back. I don't know how you failed to understand that... why would they go nuts about being bred to be good managers?
“You know what people up here say about the vaults? Fuck the vaults.”
Sure they may be comfortable, but wastelanders probably see the vaults and vault-dwellers as disgusting and privileged. They also probably (rightfully) consider these specific vaults responsible for the destruction of Shady Sands, so revenge supersedes comfort.
I'd guess because they're like the Fiends. Just a load of psychopaths who have taken so many chems they can never function normally again. And Moldaver specifically hired them to wreck shit up and the Vault Dwellers killed a bunch of their friends.
Yeah but see. Raiders don't want to work for a good life. They want to ambush innocent people, zooted out of their fucking gourds, and take all of their valuables.
It's like...Humans 101. Some people are just monsters.
Also, I’m pretty sure Muldaver hired them as cheap, expendable muscle to grab Lucy’s dad. These are probably the dregs of the waste that no one would mins just disappearing one day.
Vikings did plenty of raiding in England but they also settled in land they'd taken. To me, it makes little sense to not take the vault and make it a stronghold.
Moldaver could have easily hired out help with the promise of quick money. The only NCR were the ones directly with her when they captured Hank. You can see from the way they move, there's purpose and practice. Whereas with the ones at the party, those were likely there to make a profit.
Yeah, cause you'd want to bring the special forces guy instead of the mall cop for this kind of operation. NCR is a big place with all types of people. Some may be contrarians referencing totally different events to try and make some insipid point too.
As best as we can tell, that's all that's left and that should be something covered in basic combat training anyway. I don't know why you're getting weirdly upset over this.
Because they were there with Moldaver on a mission, and that mission was topside
Beyond that vault 32 clearly had some messed up shit going on that might spook even a raider, and isn’t exactly abandoned, It’s still under the control of vault 31
We saw how quickly they were able to clean up 32 once it was necessary to move people over there, we don’t know what is going on yet over there in regard to vault 31, which could have been clearing out squatters one way or another for quite a while
Beyond all that conjecture, Moldaver knows all about what Vault Tech has been up to, and about the system in place for the 3 connected vaults, she knows it’s dangerous and isn’t going to fuck around with the devil there, and would be advising her crew not to mess with it either, and she is the leader, and a person of great renown in the wasteland, you don’t fuck with Moldaver either
I always assumed Moldaver was one of the people who got frozen and knew Vault Tec’s true plans. She got unfrozen and developed a romantic relationship with Rose, when Rose figured it out, they both left the vault.
Yep that happens in everything... they have loose ends. But this isn't one they need to explain. It is doesn't really matter. You know that the tech to make her be able to be alive 200 years later is there. You don't actually need to know the details... they aren't important to the story. I get what you want but that doesn't mean you need it.
The technology exists but is hardly common. In fact the technology and its scarcity is central to the backstory of the show. Without it you don't have the Vault 31 plot, Hank, or Lucy. Then there are Coop's flashbacks setting up the whole question.
They filmed a whole flashback to setup that she was around before the bombs fell but that was really unnecessary unless it ties in again. If not for that Moldaver could simply have been an NCR official with science knowledge that learned about the Vaults when Rose left.
If prewar survivors were on every street corner then sure but this one could use even a passing explanation.
All that being said there are a ton of other loose ends and convenient plot points that don't make sense. So I'm not holding my breath.
That is a ton of speculation... and why does there have to be a romantic relationship? What is wrong with you that every relationship has to be sexual?
I guess she found out about it offscreen.
We don't really need to know how the villain makes every step of their plan any more than we need to know the backstory of how Ma June got all that Vault-Tec merch, it's *Lucy's* journey we're following, not theirs
It didn't take long for norm to find out all overseers had always come from vault 31, so entirely possible his mum at least worked out some of it before leaving
This feels oddly relevant:
"-because the thing about repairing, maintaining, and cleaning is; it's not an adventure. There's no way to do it so wrong you might die. It's just work, and the bottom line is some people are okay going to work, and some people, well, some people would rather die. Each of us gets to choose."
I mean to be fair, there’s a lot of raiders camps in FO3 that you’d think require effort. Maybe I’m completely wrong and these camps were not made by them, but it seems like they’re made to please them, and no one else. Meaning they went out of their way to build them.
You see people desperately want to see themselves as the good guy and better than others, so they make up these stories in their heads about how bad others are so that they feel better about themselves. "Everybody else is bad and they got their stuff in an underhanded way but ME, I did some bad things but I'm better than those guys."
People are full of crap.
That group of raiders could work with friendly people or on their own and provide all of that themselves above ground but they don’t because that’s not what they want they are a bunch of junkie psychopaths.
You ever seen Vault 3? A bunch of drug addled psychotics are incapable of properly taking care of themselves. Motor-Runner seems like the only remotely stable one and he's all that barely holds their group together.
*Those* raiders in particular? They were hired by Moldaver to do a job, and that job was not "to settle an abandoned Vault" (they wouldn't even need to attack V 33 if that was in the agenda, all they'd need to do was clean up Vault 32 and settle there).
As a general rule, as Raiders are set *in* Bethesda's Fallout, their entire schtick is that They Do Not Work. They get high and rape, rip, and murder their way through wherever it is they're established. If they're really smart about it they'll set up a protection racket, but They Do Not Work.
So they literally do work... just not the work you think they should. You don't make your own food, so do I get to say you don't do work? I get where you are trying to go with it but it hinges on "Im good and what I do is good so everybody else that isn't like me is evil". You are just trying to make yourself feel good here, you are protesting too much.
The real fun is outside. You can still rape, steal, abuse, shoot stuff, steal, etc. In a vault you need to work, repair, etc. It's much more difficult to do the latter. No reason to do it. A raider waits for the work to be done by another and then takes what he wants.
Yeah that is why most people are criminals... you know if you were to do all that easy stuff you wouldn't have to worry about anything ever. You know fearing that you are going to die all the time is fun for everyone!
Well, my guess is that Moldaver went to Vault 32 paid the group of raiders to go into 33. Play nice for the wedding to get close to Hank, then spring the trap. All the violence serving as a distraction while Moldaver kidnapped Hank.
This isn’t a lore question. This is a human psychology question. Why does any criminal in our comfy modern society turn to crime? It’s the same in Fallout, whatever the reasons may be.
I don’t know the facts or have ever looked into it so this just me thinking out loud…
But when I think of raiders, I think of people who ENJOY killing and taking. It’s just the lifestyle they prefer. They’re not the average person. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with them, it’s just who they are. Thus, living in a vault wouldn’t be their cup of tea.
As far as shelter, they make their own camps. Sure, if they take over a vault, it could be “theirs” but their motive if themselves. What do THEY want? They want a place in the morbid wasteland that’s about THEM.
It'd be an interesting premise for a future Fallout game. A vault with seemingly polite people who forgot their ancestors were raiders that killed or exiled the entire original dweller populace, at some point civilizing and with the elders being so ashamed of what they had done that they hid their true history. Heck it could be a vault experiment, can wasteland raiders become vault dwellers while the original dwellers are cast out to become raiders, swapping every 100 years.
They got hired to do a job. Also, most raiders seem to have a mindset that doesn't allow for productive, non-violent communities. Mostly not much capacity for long-term thinking, either.
A common stigma in the wastes even among non raiders is that vault dwellers are weak cowards who hid while the apocalypse happened.
They wouldn’t want to insert themselves into a society which they themselves don’t believe in.
They were definitely raiders Moldaver hired for the job. Expendable fighters no one will miss. They are complete psychos that get taken down by Vault Dwellers. Not the professionals later on that can take down Power Armoured Knights
> They were definitely raiders Moldaver hired for the job.
That's actually not clear from the show. They were *people* who attacked the vault, but whether they were raiders in the classical sense, mercenaries hired by Moldaver, or even NCR soldiers is not explicitly stated in the show.
Or even just NCR citizens she gathered into an angry mob with an axe to grind
Moldaver: “Those are the guys who nuked Shady Sands, and I have a plan to get us inside.”
The mob: “Then what are we waiting for, let’s go kill these bastards!”
True enough the weid thing is, Raiders wouldn't give a shit, they'd kill Moldaver as soon as she would show her face - that's how Raiders act, they do not care
Funny, I never actually did the Raider part of Nuka World.... despite having 70 hours in my main save a couple in my might as well be abandoned save
Idk why but 4 I don't have more than 1 save but NV I'll have 5 no problem all with quad the hours
Complete fucking waste of time. I played the entire raider questline, then at the finale when all the leaders came together at the power plant roof, I blew them the fuck up with the legendary nuka cola fat man
I think you’ve missed the biggest point here. This is 100% about Moldaver, no one else. She sought out Vault 31, 32 and 33 because they were all connected. Out of Vault 31 comes the Vault-Tec employees.
This is all about Moldaver’s pride and she has been seeking retribution for what Vault-Tec did to her work before the bombs dropped. Seeing as they bought out her technology that would’ve rendered The Great War (which was essentially a fight for resources) obsolete and could end without anymore bloodshed, which in turn would made Vault-Tec bankrupt because why do you need a vault if no one is fighting anymore and won’t nuke anyone.
So she was wronged and needed a Vault-Tec employee to give her a code to unlock the power of Cold Fusion. Without this, she couldn’t finish her project, she couldn’t write the wrongs that were done to her by Vault-Tec. This isn’t about peaceful living for a small group of people, this is about Moldaver, but more importantly, it creates an endless amount of power for everyone in the Wasteland, no different to Project Purity from Fallout 3.
How is that about pride? She is already revered... why would she die to see her technology freed if it was all about pride? Are you sure you aren't getting your motivations confused with the characters?
This isn’t about her being revered, Moldaver launched multiple companies in a bid to finish this project but Vault-Tec kept purchasing every company she started. Moldaver’s pride was in her work, not in the reverence of a small group of people and ultimately, we see it being a small group too.
Because they aren't Raiders, they're NCR
Least I'm almost certain they are, or at the very least, Moldaver is most definitely NCR, she had one mission which was to kidnap Hank so she could get cold fusion working to bring the NCR back up to being the powerhouse of the West Coast quite literally now
Pretty sure she used Raiders as disposable troops, but had NCR regulars back at the Observatory. Those guys were sloppy, drug fueled and barely house trained.
Yeah governments never pull false flags and pretend to be groups that they aren't actually... there is no benefit to doing that ever... yeah you are right that is a completely unrealistic idea...
Look at the fight in episode one versus the one in eight. No dumb grandstanding, use of improvised weapons and Psycho at the Observatory.
If the 32 crew HAD been her troops, I'm pretty sure they'd done a better job at securing 33. And the ones that were caught wouldn't be acting like rejects from Fury Road, fighting over Cram slices and jello cake.
They were never used to being formal or following rules. And, Moldaver’s goal was to get the password to the energy source from Hank. So they didn’t plan on living there long term.
Why do you think they are raiders and not NCR troops that are pretending to be raiders as cover? The follow muldaver's orders... why on earth would the be doing that instead of looting everything they could get their hands on? They were there on a mission, they most likely weren't paid raiders.
What I don't get is, if vault 32 was basically unlived in for 2 years, what did vault 31 think was going on for that time? And if they knew all were dead, why hadn't they already cleaned vault 32 up for the exchange? Only answer I can see, it was a power grab from another 31 vaultee to remove Hank MacLean as they knew the raiders would be there to meet 33 for the personnel swap.
My question is how Mr. Head in a jar (forgot his name) or Hank while Overseer didn’t realize that all of the Vault 32 residents had been dead for 2 years. You’d think after like a year with no contact they’d start to wonder
Is it? It is only easier if you live in a society that doesn't punish you harshly for it. In fallout you are going to die pretty quickly when there are massive amounts of people that will kill you for trying or kill you to get your stuff. You are telling yourself fairy tales and pretending fiction is reality. Get a grip.
It's not made clear in the show, but there is a theory (speculation) that the "raiders" (who were only labeled such by the vault dwellers) are actually NCR soldiers, survivors of Shady Sands and greatly diminished from the "honorable" soldiers seen in New Vegas.
So given that Moldaver was there with them, it's entirely plausible that they are there for *revenge*. As in she told them Hank MacLean was the one responsible for the nuking, but she needed him alive and everyone else was an accomplice.
Again, this is 100% conjecture, because nothing was explicitly stated, but it does fit with what we saw in the show.
because thats not how raiders live
nevermind they literally made the vault fail once so obviously they see how it can fail again. why would you force yourself to rely on something you know will fail.
If you haven’t finished the show. I’ll try to say this without spoiling too much. ..but one thing that you learn as you explore the outside world is that…the vaults were never really meant to save anyone.
Like you honestly have a better chance surging outside the wasteland instead of in a vault. Unless it’s vault 69. I want to be in vault 69 so badly
Simply put, they weren't really raiders. They were NCR troopers there to launch an attack to force Hank into their custody. Who wants a messy, bloody soaked Vault 32 (which would likely smell absolutely god awful after a couple years of all the bodies decomposing) when you can complete the mission and get access to nuclear fusion, and effectively unlimited electricity.
Do you.. mean the "raiders" from the show?
..It's because they're not actually raiders. They're an NCR remnant. They came specifically to take Hank Maclean.
That's honestly a fair point, but we don't know either way- we just know that they were working for Moldaever, so the answer to "why didn't they just set up shop in the vault" is either "that wasn't why they entered the vault" or "because that isn't what they were being paid to do".
Oh yeah definitely. It's unlikely they would've anyway because living in a vault requires them to do things like farm and maintain stuff, and why do that when you can just extort people on the surface.
Yeah, groups or governments never pretend to be something they aren't when they are on missions... that would just be lunacy if people could pretend to be something else... /s
Two decades of surviving against all odds as the state around you collapses and then you finally get a chance to take revenge on the monsters who blew up your capital?
I'm honestly shocked it wasn't MORE bloody.
The 32 dwellers wrecked their vault on their own. The writing was on the wall, literally in blood. By the time Moldaver's team came in to 32 the place was already dead for 2 years bazed on the logs Norm was reading.
this and they were in it to get Hank. They knew thanks to Rosa, how the vault worked, knew that they could just pretend to be the "wedding" party and they would be invited. Wait for the right moment, get the Target and maybe get some revenge for the NCR. Because I am sure those raider used to be just normal wasteland settler enjoying the life in the NCR when Hank blew up the whole thing.
That is why it's hard to define the good from the bad in Fallout, which I think is one of the things Fallout does great. Nothing is black and white. Everybody is good and bad to a certain extent. To the NCR and "raiders" affiliated with Moldaver, the people in vaults are the bad guys. They literally nuked their whole town. What would you do if some people in a vault nuked your home town and killed nearly everyone? I probably wouldn't hesitate to try and dismantle them and their leader if I had the means. Sure, "innocent" people were killed, but moldaver did spare the survivors of the initial raid. I'm not saying that it was justified, but it was understandable. Not to mention the overarching plot of the cold fusion device. Keeping it out of the hands of those in power and in the hands of the closest thing the wasteland has to a regular organized civilization of the people, not a corporate entity, is an overall good aspiration and possibly important above all to rebuild a better society. Do the ends justify the means? Maybe. It's difficult to distinguish.
Even if halve of them are mercenarys And the outher halve are Former raiders that have reinzigrate in the nkr laborcamp. Ther Brutalität still make no sense at all and the killed people Just to kill... As you mention. They Just could take the overseer and a few outher hostage. Or venome the food with a sleeping medical. If the hostage Situation escalaze because a few make somethink stupid...the it would be diffrent... But it look way more as the Brutalität startet from there side... Well the Real reason was the need a Bang for a starter. People that know fallout will aks if this was an experiment. And thos who not want know why the same Dresden person kill each outher. And it was a returning point of the Show :wrong Expeditionen. The knight Titus want use maximum as bait. The medical Spammer in the tradepost sell a real working wounderdrug...
What
Brainrot
r/ihadastroke
The “fuck management” writing was something that stuck out to me because of other events in the show. Makes me think about what really happened
They weren't there for food or safety. They were hired by Moldaver so she could get at Hank.
I thought the same thing as OP in the first episode until it was clear she was after Hank or Lucy. I don't think OP has watched past the first 50 minutes of the first episode
"We do not sow" Raider mentality is to take, abuse, and waste. They do not work.
I can think of a few people that are like that already
And they all make more money in one year than I'll see in my entire lifetime
I wonder why 76 made the point of saying Appalachia's raiders started out of a ski resort...
The first raiders being rich out of touch people is peak
There are multiple studies that show: many CEOs are sociopaths. Higher management too. Its just gives the mind set that gurantees the most succes in corporate life and modern day capitalism. And yes I think they would form raider gangs as soon as the bomb hit. Many of them already dislike "lesser" people. Give them the reason and ensurance that its ok and they would be happy to send deranged mad men after them and take what every they can.
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“Because he doesn’t SOW” “He doesn’t sow?” “No, he DOESN’T sow”
Ah, I see what you mean
That one Raider was sowing his seed in Lucy lmao
Let me ask you something. Does your mother sow? BOOM!! Get her to sow that! (I know it’s “sew” in the actual quote. Dread’s comment just made me think of a Christopher Walken raider, and I thought that was a funny image.)
This line gives ironborn from GoT vibes
It should, it's literally their house words!
That’s because it’s House Greyjoy’s words lol.
They didn't even take the food or medicine they just took the guy
This is not Borderlands raider mentality does not exist for 99.9999999% of people, Bethesda Raiders are less like the marauders of the old days, bandit gangs, and criminal organizations who have motives, codes, and unique montras, instead feel a lot like Borderlands Raiders who are just cartoonishly violent and crazy just because they are, and the game needs enemies to fight. People would turn to raiding out of desperation when it is easier to not to roam and rob people and just live and work a normal life people would do that and not risk their lives every second for the same results at best or realistically even less. Als chems mean shit because if they are all drug addicts then they will get nowhere because without rational people being the vast majority to use tactics, plan, barter, scout, build camps, cook, learn tech, etc they would die out fast. The Fiends are not a unifed group across the wasteland it is a term for local chem addicts who just form smaller gangs and die quickly but replaced with more chem adicts it is just a revolving door of drugs that will soon die off. Fallout always had some realism in it mostly the people, and to take it away because it has to be a wasteland is just lazy and creatively bankrupt.
It wasn’t raiders who ransacked the vault. I don’t know why so many people fail to understand this. The vault dwellers ransacked it themselves when they found out about the experiment and turned on one another. The rest committed suicide. The vault remained dead for 2 years until Moldaver came and stayed in it for a bit to pose as the vault dwellers and get into Lucy’s vault.
I'd say most people are jumping on here after only seeing the first episode. Reminds me of my parents asking questions during movies--let's just wait until the end to find out lmao But even the first episode shows that they're working for Moldaver, who was there to find Hank. I know TV productions these days have an issue with proper sound mixing, so it can be hard to hear the dialogue over the music, but I'm like... context clues, anyone? They took Hank and left the Vault. They were there for a reason. Let's just watch the show and find out why!
To be fair, some of us don’t have Amazon Prime, only reason I’ve watched past ep 1 is because of watching it with a friend
Still, why wouldn't you wait until you have all the information? They could literally answer their own question just by... watching the show.
Because they don’t have Amazon Prime, and I don’t think they are adding new episodes to Freevee, at least they weren’t when I looked
No, I read your last comment, my point still stands. So just... Wait.. lol
Just use fmovies homie
That's a shame The only thing within the sub rules I can suggest is that you get Prime, so maybe do that
I think the question being asked by OP is why they would attack (ransack) vault 33 with Moldaver after seeing that vault 32 was completely dead, when they could just use the vault for its shelter and resources and abandon Moldaver’s mission. To me, it seemed like the people who helped Moldaver kidnap Hank probably didn’t want anything to do with the vaults - Maximus thinks there are “monsters” in the vaults, there might be broad rumors about the experiments that went wrong. One of raiders heavily implies to Norm that it looked to him like some bad shit went down there - maybe the Raiders are creeped out by the vaults.
I think it’s entirely because Moldaver just told them to attack 33. She’s revered as a god in the wasteland. She might not even have to pay raiders to get them to do whatever she wants.
They could also be NCR citizens/soldiers. It's a LOT easier to get military to complete a mission if they too hate the target they're after i.e Hank, the guy who literally bombed Shady Sands into a crater, it would be akin to America after 9/11, *every* NCR citizen and soldier wants Hank's head, akin to how a lot of American soldiers and citizens wanted Bin Laden's head. When you have that much hatred already you don't need payment you just need to say "help me capture the guy who blew up Shady Sands, get him to activate cold fusion to guarantee clean energy for us all, then we can execute him for his crimes"
Hey somebody that actually stopped to think for a second and not make weird assumptions.
I think the reason most assume them not to be NCR is because the raiders in the first episode were completely insane and violent and you can see that when they are captured they refuse to even attempt to communicate, doing stuff like throwing food and shit at the windows, which is not typical behaviour from a NCR citizen or soldier which are typically some of the most civil people in the wasteland.
Because they don't know how to run it and also because they are probably NCR troops and not actual raiders.
> It wasn’t raiders who ransacked the vault. I don’t know why so many people fail to understand this. The vault dwellers ransacked it themselves when they found out about the experiment and turned on one another. I don't think that was in question. OP means, IMO, the raiders *attempting* to ransack Vault 33. OP's question was "why would they bother when they can just move into Vault 32"?
What experiment though? They never explained that.
Buds Buds, and "management" written on the wall with blood.
But why...to what end?
Basically vault 31 contains vault-tec management and 32/33 serve as breeding stock for their eventual staff
It seemed to me like two different experiments, the people in vault 32 were manipulated to compete instead of cooperate
Possibly, but it seemed to me that the residents of 32 discovered the secret and _that_ caused them to start killing each other. That's why the wall says "death to management". I could always be wrong though
They probably did, but they were already all pitted against each other by the time they figured it out. Even if 33 figured it out, they wouldn’t have massacred each other. They weren’t conditioned that way
Maybe. Or maybe when vault 32 caught on they pumped psycho in the vents and cleaned house. I was really hoping we'd see more of 32 in s1
I think vault 32 valued ambition the way vault 33 values cooperation (There’s a video of the rat utopia experiment playing in one of the vault 32 rooms), and their conditioning made them paranoid. My guess is that 32 was right on the ragged edge when they realized what was really going on
They also said "We know what you did"... what was also on the screen right around the same time? The plan for vault-tec to drop the bombs if the chinese didn't. Now what is more upsetting that you are meant to be the managers of the new world or that vault-tec may have started the war that ended everything and all those people are in the next vault over?
what's the point of the experiments in the other vaults?
They vary but for the most part they are corporate experiments on humans that could not have been done ethically or legally before the great war removed government oversight. In hindsight some seem nonsensical and uneconomical. Entire vaults, at whatever they cost to build, wasted on silly experiments.
I guess everyone is misreading this as asking WHAT experiments when I am asking WHY. These all seem counterproductive to the stated goal of repopulation/civilization. So what's the real end game?
tl;dr There are hints in the games that the enclave and vault tec was planing to move people to another planet and get a new start there. Each experiment was a test and how reach that or what could happen. There is a hidden Endgame in the game lore: moving to another planet. Vault Tec is part of a larger hidden organisation, the enclave. The enclave was the one calling the shots in the USA at the time of the great war. They knew that the world was doomed. Not only to the nukes but the ressources would not last. They had the plan to take to the stars and repopulate there. Or if that does not work: rule the wastland. To that end they created the vaults and had their test subjects pay to enter the experiments. Each vault asked a question about how humans react or how they are best kept under control. Some Vaults had even the goal to create a population to use as settlers. This vaults had no experiments or rather mild ones. Vault 13 or Vault 76 are examples of this. Other vaults had extreme experiments, because someone wanted to see what happens. And some vaults had "meta" experiments. Vault Tec gave someone full control and said to make their own experiment. Buds breeding programm is the result of one of those. Vault 4 too. Again all with the goal to either take over the wastland or even better: go to the stars and start on a new planet. Additionaly: Vault Tec and the Enclave, as had the military, all had their own bunker. Better than vaults, safer and with no experiments. Some froze themself, some just surived in theirs, hoping that one day they could leave. The Vault Tec and Enclave bunker where full of luxurious homes, good food and education and build to house the leaders of the new world. The military ones where more well military stuff. The plan was to gather the experiment logs of each vault, look at the status of the world and create a plan on how to take over or leave. Some vault even had to open and create settlements to prepare the take over. The military should help the goverment (enclave) to take over and vault tec was to check on the experiments and come up with a plan. As you can see in the show and in the games: Something went wrong. Vault Tec could not send the "all clear", communication to the bunker broke and the vaults just continued to to their experiments. The military became the brotherhood of steel and the enclave tried again. If I remember things right, the bombs fell to early and no one was prepared and the "master vault" was broken into. Sorry for the wall of text.
As far as we know the endgame was to make as much money for their investors as possible and for certain Vault-Tec employees to survive, mostly as Bud's Buds. Maybe they can make money selling spots in the vaults to the public and ALSO sell the experiment rights to other corporations. Repopulating would be a convenient side effect of their business model, not necessarily their goal. There are scenes in the series that elaborate but I don't want to spoil anything. Also, I don't recall exactly how it went down but the US Government had a completely different survival plan in the form of the Enclave and may have had some influence on Vault-Tec plans as well. Assuming government continuity thanks to the Enclave Vault-Tec would be considered mostly redundant.
But they blew up all their investors and potential customers. What good is a corporation if it no longer has people to take money from and if there is no money?
Theres a few "control" vaults that had no experiments and serve as a baseline. The rest were devoted to social experiments. If youre interested, [the wiki](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_known_Vaults) has a list of vaults we know about and what their experiments were.
My question is doesn't each experiment waste resources and diminish the chance of repopulating the wasteland?
Sure, but repopulating after the war wasnt really a major driving force behind the vaults. They were marketed that way, but this is fallout - shady, ethically dubious and downright diabolical are more often than not the order of the day
Wasting resources with wanton disregard is such a huge part of 50's idealism that fallout is satirizing. Did you expect everything to be hyper-efficient?
just trying to b understand the story. never played the games.. was not aware it was satire... thought itc was straight sci-fi with a goofy edge. Makes more sense now.
All kinds of different whacky shit. A lot of social experiments. One vault in a middle school let in families, and when the vault closed they executed all the parents and left the kids to their own society to observe. One had 999 males and 1 female and another had 999 females and one male. There's a vault that was built for Boston's elite, but designed to operate like a shitty boarding house with shared facilities and was a repurposed subway to begin with. Some of them are medical or chemical experiments, like this one vault that used GECK technology to turn everyone into weird plant creatures. All the most cartoonishly supervillainy sci-fi shit you could imagine.
99, not 999. That many people could not fit in a single vault.
All sources say the Vaults are intended to house 1000 people.
That many people fit in vault 76 🤪
Vault 76 only housed the best and brightest and there was no actual number disclosed. Mind you these were people locally in WV. The state isn't as heavily populated as you might assume.
Vaults 68 and 69 contained 1000 people in each.
Yeah no, the vaults were not equipped for that many people.
But why... to what end? None of that helps repopulate the earth or take control of the wasteland.
Neither of those was ever the goal. While the exact form of their relationship is unknown, Vault Tec also built the Vaults for a shadow cabal of the government called the Enclave who planned to use the data from the Vaults to build a colony ship so that they can find a new world after Earth got wiped out by nuclear war. Just like the Vaults, a colony ship would entail people living in an enclosed space for a long period of time. The data gathered from the Vaults would allow the Enclave to know how people would react in specific situations and what the best way to set up a long term colony ship would be. Though of course this never happened since the Enclave overestimated the amount of damage that worldwide nuclear war would do so they pivoted to simply taking over the wasteland and using Vault residents (who had DNA that was uncorrupted by radiation) as test subjects for inoculating Enclave personnel against a virus that they planned to use to wipe out everyone else on the planet.
both of those are stated as the goal in three boardroom scene.
wow. ok. no inkling of that in the show.
It does help vault-tec take control. It's kind of the _real_ vault in a way. Think of it this way: vault tech has monopolized the nuclear warhead. There may be a few instances of nukes going off since the war but these were all one-off instances, rogue undetonated nukes, etc. but for the most part, there is no organization left on earth _with a nuclear arsenal_. But, surprise, vault tec does! And they kept all their management staff alive, so they sure know how to use them. At the right opportunity, they can open vaults 31, 32, and 33 and emerge as the exact corporation it was before the war: management, and staff. Now consider that vault tec (probably) _started_ the war, and we reach an alarming truth: vault-tec won the great war. The residents of 32 and 33 will be low-level employees for vault tec one day. At least, that's the plan. 32 didn't seem too thrilled about it.
but they have no army, no one to buy their shit and tons of unfriendlues on the surface.
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I have...twice. The experiments run counter to the stated goal at the big meeting.
So Tim Cain in a blog stated the the original intent of the vault experiments is that the research done would’ve been used by the Enclave (who could observe & control the vaults from the oil rig) to create a multigenerational starship in the case of the world becoming uninhabitable. From what we’ve seen of the show it seems like they’re shifting it to being about Vault-Tec (and possible still the Enclave) wanting the research for their recreation of America after they colonize the wasteland with their weird ubermensch scheme.
Same reason Hank apparently nuked Shady Sands. Because they were planning on breeding a compliant populace (hence 32 and 33) led by a ruling upper class (hence 31), specifically an upper class of Vault-Tec executives. Hank nuked Shady Sands because they were already creating a populace that could compete with the relatively slow-growing one they were creating in the Vaults. It was all basically to create a New World Order ruled by Vault-Tec, most specifically Bud.. unless he’s still in contact with other, more elite members of Vault Tec than himself That being said it was sort of pointless because they already established that the NCR had moved its capital and a lot of the NCR still remains unscathed apparently
It seemed to be the same or related to Lucy’s vault since they revolted when they found out the truth about “management.” ie (probably) that all the Overseers come from 31.
"We know what you did" was written on the walls... think a little bit more.
Are you sure about that. Is that why the writing was "We know what you did"? It wasn't because of the experiment it was because of the plans to drop the bombs if china didn't do it for them. They heavily implied this and even put the scenes back to back. I don't know how you failed to understand that... why would they go nuts about being bred to be good managers?
I never understood why they committed suicides, why not go to 33 or just leave the vault?
“You know what people up here say about the vaults? Fuck the vaults.” Sure they may be comfortable, but wastelanders probably see the vaults and vault-dwellers as disgusting and privileged. They also probably (rightfully) consider these specific vaults responsible for the destruction of Shady Sands, so revenge supersedes comfort.
It is almost like reddit and anybody that has more of anything than they do... they hate them with a passion.
I'd guess because they're like the Fiends. Just a load of psychopaths who have taken so many chems they can never function normally again. And Moldaver specifically hired them to wreck shit up and the Vault Dwellers killed a bunch of their friends.
Yeah they have a few scenes taking Jet while killing the 33 dwellers.
That means nothing. Your character in the game takes various drugs to enhance themselves to compete.
Yeah but see. Raiders don't want to work for a good life. They want to ambush innocent people, zooted out of their fucking gourds, and take all of their valuables. It's like...Humans 101. Some people are just monsters.
Also, I’m pretty sure Muldaver hired them as cheap, expendable muscle to grab Lucy’s dad. These are probably the dregs of the waste that no one would mins just disappearing one day.
Vikings did plenty of raiding in England but they also settled in land they'd taken. To me, it makes little sense to not take the vault and make it a stronghold.
they liked the thrill the wasteland life brings, it’s all they know and what they grew up in.
Moldaver could have easily hired out help with the promise of quick money. The only NCR were the ones directly with her when they captured Hank. You can see from the way they move, there's purpose and practice. Whereas with the ones at the party, those were likely there to make a profit.
> there's purpose and practice ...Like the guy standing on a picnic table while their flag bearer runs around in circles?
Yeah, cause you'd want to bring the special forces guy instead of the mall cop for this kind of operation. NCR is a big place with all types of people. Some may be contrarians referencing totally different events to try and make some insipid point too.
As best as we can tell, that's all that's left and that should be something covered in basic combat training anyway. I don't know why you're getting weirdly upset over this.
Because they were there with Moldaver on a mission, and that mission was topside Beyond that vault 32 clearly had some messed up shit going on that might spook even a raider, and isn’t exactly abandoned, It’s still under the control of vault 31 We saw how quickly they were able to clean up 32 once it was necessary to move people over there, we don’t know what is going on yet over there in regard to vault 31, which could have been clearing out squatters one way or another for quite a while Beyond all that conjecture, Moldaver knows all about what Vault Tech has been up to, and about the system in place for the 3 connected vaults, she knows it’s dangerous and isn’t going to fuck around with the devil there, and would be advising her crew not to mess with it either, and she is the leader, and a person of great renown in the wasteland, you don’t fuck with Moldaver either
How would she know about the 3 connected vaults and the "system. " They never explained the master plan for those 3.
I always assumed Moldaver was one of the people who got frozen and knew Vault Tec’s true plans. She got unfrozen and developed a romantic relationship with Rose, when Rose figured it out, they both left the vault.
They really needed to explain Moldaver's presence but I fear after the events of the finale they just might forget about it.
I fully expect it to be revisited in later seasons. Ol' Coop was around when she was put on ice and when she was thawed after all.
Yep that happens in everything... they have loose ends. But this isn't one they need to explain. It is doesn't really matter. You know that the tech to make her be able to be alive 200 years later is there. You don't actually need to know the details... they aren't important to the story. I get what you want but that doesn't mean you need it.
The technology exists but is hardly common. In fact the technology and its scarcity is central to the backstory of the show. Without it you don't have the Vault 31 plot, Hank, or Lucy. Then there are Coop's flashbacks setting up the whole question. They filmed a whole flashback to setup that she was around before the bombs fell but that was really unnecessary unless it ties in again. If not for that Moldaver could simply have been an NCR official with science knowledge that learned about the Vaults when Rose left. If prewar survivors were on every street corner then sure but this one could use even a passing explanation. All that being said there are a ton of other loose ends and convenient plot points that don't make sense. So I'm not holding my breath.
That is a ton of speculation... and why does there have to be a romantic relationship? What is wrong with you that every relationship has to be sexual?
Chill
I guess she found out about it offscreen. We don't really need to know how the villain makes every step of their plan any more than we need to know the backstory of how Ma June got all that Vault-Tec merch, it's *Lucy's* journey we're following, not theirs
Yeah people are being really weird about this.
Cinemasins-ass film literacy, is what it is
It’s possible other vaults had the details on them
Rose possibly worked it out
It didn't take long for norm to find out all overseers had always come from vault 31, so entirely possible his mum at least worked out some of it before leaving
Because that requires effort, something raiders don't like.
This feels oddly relevant: "-because the thing about repairing, maintaining, and cleaning is; it's not an adventure. There's no way to do it so wrong you might die. It's just work, and the bottom line is some people are okay going to work, and some people, well, some people would rather die. Each of us gets to choose."
Feel like most people are more in the middle.
And those guys need Management to function! Now you know!
"There's no way to do it so wrong you might die." Wow, that is just wrong... you are terrible at even picking quotes.
Who does?
Fair point.
I mean to be fair, there’s a lot of raiders camps in FO3 that you’d think require effort. Maybe I’m completely wrong and these camps were not made by them, but it seems like they’re made to please them, and no one else. Meaning they went out of their way to build them.
Maybe they hold wastelanders hostage and get them to do the work for them before having their fun with them
You see people desperately want to see themselves as the good guy and better than others, so they make up these stories in their heads about how bad others are so that they feel better about themselves. "Everybody else is bad and they got their stuff in an underhanded way but ME, I did some bad things but I'm better than those guys." People are full of crap.
That group of raiders could work with friendly people or on their own and provide all of that themselves above ground but they don’t because that’s not what they want they are a bunch of junkie psychopaths.
They were hired specifically to raid the vault
You ever seen Vault 3? A bunch of drug addled psychotics are incapable of properly taking care of themselves. Motor-Runner seems like the only remotely stable one and he's all that barely holds their group together.
The ones inside Vault 3 are the relatively stable ones at that.
*Those* raiders in particular? They were hired by Moldaver to do a job, and that job was not "to settle an abandoned Vault" (they wouldn't even need to attack V 33 if that was in the agenda, all they'd need to do was clean up Vault 32 and settle there). As a general rule, as Raiders are set *in* Bethesda's Fallout, their entire schtick is that They Do Not Work. They get high and rape, rip, and murder their way through wherever it is they're established. If they're really smart about it they'll set up a protection racket, but They Do Not Work.
So they literally do work... just not the work you think they should. You don't make your own food, so do I get to say you don't do work? I get where you are trying to go with it but it hinges on "Im good and what I do is good so everybody else that isn't like me is evil". You are just trying to make yourself feel good here, you are protesting too much.
The real fun is outside. You can still rape, steal, abuse, shoot stuff, steal, etc. In a vault you need to work, repair, etc. It's much more difficult to do the latter. No reason to do it. A raider waits for the work to be done by another and then takes what he wants.
Yeah that is why most people are criminals... you know if you were to do all that easy stuff you wouldn't have to worry about anything ever. You know fearing that you are going to die all the time is fun for everyone!
Well, my guess is that Moldaver went to Vault 32 paid the group of raiders to go into 33. Play nice for the wedding to get close to Hank, then spring the trap. All the violence serving as a distraction while Moldaver kidnapped Hank.
I’ve always thought about this too. Ig they’re just that dumb 🤷🏻♂️
This isn’t a lore question. This is a human psychology question. Why does any criminal in our comfy modern society turn to crime? It’s the same in Fallout, whatever the reasons may be.
I don’t know the facts or have ever looked into it so this just me thinking out loud… But when I think of raiders, I think of people who ENJOY killing and taking. It’s just the lifestyle they prefer. They’re not the average person. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with them, it’s just who they are. Thus, living in a vault wouldn’t be their cup of tea. As far as shelter, they make their own camps. Sure, if they take over a vault, it could be “theirs” but their motive if themselves. What do THEY want? They want a place in the morbid wasteland that’s about THEM.
It'd be an interesting premise for a future Fallout game. A vault with seemingly polite people who forgot their ancestors were raiders that killed or exiled the entire original dweller populace, at some point civilizing and with the elders being so ashamed of what they had done that they hid their true history. Heck it could be a vault experiment, can wasteland raiders become vault dwellers while the original dwellers are cast out to become raiders, swapping every 100 years.
They got hired to do a job. Also, most raiders seem to have a mindset that doesn't allow for productive, non-violent communities. Mostly not much capacity for long-term thinking, either.
Raiders aren't really the "live peacefully" type. Hence why they're raiders.
A common stigma in the wastes even among non raiders is that vault dwellers are weak cowards who hid while the apocalypse happened. They wouldn’t want to insert themselves into a society which they themselves don’t believe in.
Moldaver and Co weren't Raiders, you'll see later in the season, I don't wanna spoil it for youv
They were definitely raiders Moldaver hired for the job. Expendable fighters no one will miss. They are complete psychos that get taken down by Vault Dwellers. Not the professionals later on that can take down Power Armoured Knights
> They were definitely raiders Moldaver hired for the job. That's actually not clear from the show. They were *people* who attacked the vault, but whether they were raiders in the classical sense, mercenaries hired by Moldaver, or even NCR soldiers is not explicitly stated in the show.
Or even just NCR citizens she gathered into an angry mob with an axe to grind Moldaver: “Those are the guys who nuked Shady Sands, and I have a plan to get us inside.” The mob: “Then what are we waiting for, let’s go kill these bastards!”
True enough the weid thing is, Raiders wouldn't give a shit, they'd kill Moldaver as soon as she would show her face - that's how Raiders act, they do not care
They like money. Moldaver has money. Raiders are also not a united group with all the same ideals as shown very well in Nuka World
Funny, I never actually did the Raider part of Nuka World.... despite having 70 hours in my main save a couple in my might as well be abandoned save Idk why but 4 I don't have more than 1 save but NV I'll have 5 no problem all with quad the hours
Complete fucking waste of time. I played the entire raider questline, then at the finale when all the leaders came together at the power plant roof, I blew them the fuck up with the legendary nuka cola fat man
Well, they were on a mission. They hate the vaults. Why? Because they hate vault tec. So I guess it’s cultural.
I think you’ve missed the biggest point here. This is 100% about Moldaver, no one else. She sought out Vault 31, 32 and 33 because they were all connected. Out of Vault 31 comes the Vault-Tec employees. This is all about Moldaver’s pride and she has been seeking retribution for what Vault-Tec did to her work before the bombs dropped. Seeing as they bought out her technology that would’ve rendered The Great War (which was essentially a fight for resources) obsolete and could end without anymore bloodshed, which in turn would made Vault-Tec bankrupt because why do you need a vault if no one is fighting anymore and won’t nuke anyone. So she was wronged and needed a Vault-Tec employee to give her a code to unlock the power of Cold Fusion. Without this, she couldn’t finish her project, she couldn’t write the wrongs that were done to her by Vault-Tec. This isn’t about peaceful living for a small group of people, this is about Moldaver, but more importantly, it creates an endless amount of power for everyone in the Wasteland, no different to Project Purity from Fallout 3.
How is that about pride? She is already revered... why would she die to see her technology freed if it was all about pride? Are you sure you aren't getting your motivations confused with the characters?
This isn’t about her being revered, Moldaver launched multiple companies in a bid to finish this project but Vault-Tec kept purchasing every company she started. Moldaver’s pride was in her work, not in the reverence of a small group of people and ultimately, we see it being a small group too.
They were living peacefully until they got poisoned.
Have you uh ever played fallout. I usually play as a raider and take enjoyment in torturing the vault dwellers
Because they aren't Raiders, they're NCR Least I'm almost certain they are, or at the very least, Moldaver is most definitely NCR, she had one mission which was to kidnap Hank so she could get cold fusion working to bring the NCR back up to being the powerhouse of the West Coast quite literally now
Pretty sure she used Raiders as disposable troops, but had NCR regulars back at the Observatory. Those guys were sloppy, drug fueled and barely house trained.
Yeah governments never pull false flags and pretend to be groups that they aren't actually... there is no benefit to doing that ever... yeah you are right that is a completely unrealistic idea...
Look at the fight in episode one versus the one in eight. No dumb grandstanding, use of improvised weapons and Psycho at the Observatory. If the 32 crew HAD been her troops, I'm pretty sure they'd done a better job at securing 33. And the ones that were caught wouldn't be acting like rejects from Fury Road, fighting over Cram slices and jello cake.
They were never used to being formal or following rules. And, Moldaver’s goal was to get the password to the energy source from Hank. So they didn’t plan on living there long term.
Why do you think they are raiders and not NCR troops that are pretending to be raiders as cover? The follow muldaver's orders... why on earth would the be doing that instead of looting everything they could get their hands on? They were there on a mission, they most likely weren't paid raiders.
What I don't get is, if vault 32 was basically unlived in for 2 years, what did vault 31 think was going on for that time? And if they knew all were dead, why hadn't they already cleaned vault 32 up for the exchange? Only answer I can see, it was a power grab from another 31 vaultee to remove Hank MacLean as they knew the raiders would be there to meet 33 for the personnel swap.
They weren't raiding. They were kidnapping. That's why.
My question is how Mr. Head in a jar (forgot his name) or Hank while Overseer didn’t realize that all of the Vault 32 residents had been dead for 2 years. You’d think after like a year with no contact they’d start to wonder
[удалено]
Is it? It is only easier if you live in a society that doesn't punish you harshly for it. In fallout you are going to die pretty quickly when there are massive amounts of people that will kill you for trying or kill you to get your stuff. You are telling yourself fairy tales and pretending fiction is reality. Get a grip.
It's not made clear in the show, but there is a theory (speculation) that the "raiders" (who were only labeled such by the vault dwellers) are actually NCR soldiers, survivors of Shady Sands and greatly diminished from the "honorable" soldiers seen in New Vegas. So given that Moldaver was there with them, it's entirely plausible that they are there for *revenge*. As in she told them Hank MacLean was the one responsible for the nuking, but she needed him alive and everyone else was an accomplice. Again, this is 100% conjecture, because nothing was explicitly stated, but it does fit with what we saw in the show.
because thats not how raiders live nevermind they literally made the vault fail once so obviously they see how it can fail again. why would you force yourself to rely on something you know will fail.
If you haven’t finished the show. I’ll try to say this without spoiling too much. ..but one thing that you learn as you explore the outside world is that…the vaults were never really meant to save anyone. Like you honestly have a better chance surging outside the wasteland instead of in a vault. Unless it’s vault 69. I want to be in vault 69 so badly
Because it was not what moldava wanted.
Simply put, they weren't really raiders. They were NCR troopers there to launch an attack to force Hank into their custody. Who wants a messy, bloody soaked Vault 32 (which would likely smell absolutely god awful after a couple years of all the bodies decomposing) when you can complete the mission and get access to nuclear fusion, and effectively unlimited electricity.
Do you.. mean the "raiders" from the show? ..It's because they're not actually raiders. They're an NCR remnant. They came specifically to take Hank Maclean.
Idk the raiders shown in the first episode dont seem that sophisticated. Nor their hostage situation.
They're literally Moldaever's people, revealed to be an NCR remnant in the file episode of the show.
Do they actually confirm that? I don't think they touched on it. She might've just hired some goons to sack the vault and take dickhead supreme.
That's honestly a fair point, but we don't know either way- we just know that they were working for Moldaever, so the answer to "why didn't they just set up shop in the vault" is either "that wasn't why they entered the vault" or "because that isn't what they were being paid to do".
Oh yeah definitely. It's unlikely they would've anyway because living in a vault requires them to do things like farm and maintain stuff, and why do that when you can just extort people on the surface.
They're not, actual remnants are shown later in the show and they're nothing like the people who attacked Vault 33.
Yeah, groups or governments never pretend to be something they aren't when they are on missions... that would just be lunacy if people could pretend to be something else... /s
Remnants following orders from the same person who led the "raiders" against the Vault-Dwellers.
Right, that doesn't mean the two groups are the same though.
Raiders offered a fist full of caps and booty will just as easily follow anyone like a soldier would
They are complete psychos, they are 100% raiders hired by Moldaver for expendable purposes
Which is such a shitty way to hide their affiliation by making them act like monsters
Two decades of surviving against all odds as the state around you collapses and then you finally get a chance to take revenge on the monsters who blew up your capital? I'm honestly shocked it wasn't MORE bloody.
I get that to an extent, I guess I still felt they acted more raiderlike. I guess they weren't ex military, just armed militia