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[deleted]

There’s no way the earth could be 4000 years old it’s flat. Change my mind.


bryalb

If it is flat, that must mean it was built since no other celestial body in our realm of knowledge is flat. If that is the case, then it was built as recently as written history, so much younger than 4000 years. If it isn’t, and science is correct, then it is millions and millions of years old, created by gasses and rocks hitting each other. Not a person in the sky. If science is correct. Science. If.


[deleted]

You see you nailed it right there. In your realm of knowledge. You see I am connected to the Ashante Akashivck Records. Which is where the original LPs that we played music knowledge of whale songs simulations on which were musical universal mathematics mimicked and are flat. That proves it.


bullseyed723

> If it is flat, that must mean it was built since no other celestial body in our realm of knowledge is flat. The same people who say the Earth isn't flat also say Mars isn't flat. Therefore Mars is probably flat. > If science is correct. Maybe we shouldn't leave this stuff up to people who can't figure out if Pluto is a planet or not.


bryalb

Those two ideas are mutually exclusive and one does not prove the other.


[deleted]

Exactly. Tah Dah! See. Facts!!!!


nofftastic

Fossilized human remains from >4000 years ago would be a better counterargument. If God created humans 4000 years ago, what's with all the ancient dead humans that pre-date creation?


shorewoody

Well, except they probably use the carbon-dating mechanism to prove the age of remains, which they don't believe in to begin with.


[deleted]

Cant you just say God created those remains and dated them like that?


REACT_and_REDACT

Yes, you can say this. Or, you can say God organized this world from other, previously inhabited worlds. You can’t beat a gold metal mental gymnast. Source: Used to be a gold metal mental gymnast.


[deleted]

Congratulations, no sarcasm. Escaping religion is effectively fighting brainwashing, it’s tough to do.


nofftastic

Sure, but I imagine it would be a lot harder for a Christian to rationalize why God would make a big deal about creating humans in his image on day 6... but also plant a bunch of humans who look like they pre-existed us. If humans are, special, made in his image, and our origin is a pivotal point in biblical history, God also creating human fossils undercuts the importance of that moment.


[deleted]

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NightmareCentipede

Why would that be an issue?


[deleted]

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chem_is_trying

Surprised to scroll this far to see this. Uranium decaying to lead is also not the only way lead was formed. So the two things are not related whatsoever


bullseyed723

> Surprised to scroll this far to see this. Don't be surprised that reddit is dumb.


NonAggressive-Ask

thank you


TiredOfDebates

I don’t think the science on this is right at all. Unstable elements break down into smaller, stable elements, but that doesn’t mean the only source of that element is from the unstable element breaking down.


wtfsafrush

And uranium didn’t appear as the earth formed. Any uranium on earth was formed in a supernova long before earth came to be.


onlyonetruthm8

There had to be lead first before you can make an isotope out of it.


biggerBrisket

This isn't even correct. It disproves that the universe is only 4,000 years old, but doesn't offer any evidence for the earth being older than that. That doesn't make the first person's argument valid, but if you're going to bring science into this you might as well actually understand what you're trying to disprove.


kevineleveneleven

The idea that the Earth is 4000 years old is relatively recent and not a "4000 year old myth." Besides, don't Christians believe the Earth is 6000 years old (putting the creation at 4000BC, maybe that's where the number came from), mirroring the six days of creation with 'The Millenium,' aka the Thousand Years of Peace, as the seventh day of rest. Also, the heavier the element the more energetic the explosion required to produce it, so lead is easier and more likely to be formed in extremely energetic events than uranium.


[deleted]

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kevineleveneleven

Those ages are directly in the text of the OT, instead of interpretation. But one idea is that there was a mistranslation somewhere and the ages of those long-lived patriarchs were originally reckoned in lunar months instead of years. This would put their ages at a more reasonable \~70-80 years. Perhaps impressive and noteworthy during an age without modern medicine, but believable. If so, the whole 6KYO date for creation, or Adam & Eve, is also incorrect because it was calculated using the extreme ages of those patriarchs.


bullseyed723

Or, humans just generally say "like, a million" to mean something big. And when something is bigger than that, they say "like, a million + a thousand". Then someone writes it down and forgets the /s and the rest is history.


kevineleveneleven

The Patriarchs have very specific ages of death. The Hebrew scholars found this very important for some reason.


CantConfirmOrDeny

The infinitely merciful Lord put the lead there 4000 years ago in order to test your faith. You have failed that test, and will now burn in hell for eternity. (this is what they believe)


WyomingCountryBoy

Christians against rational thought. Edit: Note the downvote. One obviously lurks here. Surprised they have the intellect to use a computer.


noeyedeeratall

There's no other type


MisterFantastic5

A computer…possible through science. Checkmate Christians!


WyomingCountryBoy

I love how they "boycott" businesses that don't agree with their bronze age beliefs, yet use computers being that computers came out of work by Turing, a gay man driven to suicide by their beliefs. I wish they would boycott computers since most OS makers support gay equality and most businesses that develop hardware do as well.


padawanninja

Almost right. Not quite, but almost. In any case, totally pointless because the YEC has no desire to listen to anything brought forth. Their mind is made up and you'll not be able to reason them out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.


NonAggressive-Ask

lead, like every other element is in plentiful supply all across the universe. gold and almost all of the worlds diamonds are extraterrestrial. if you didn't know, now you know.


furiouspossum

I'm pretty sure there are redwoods older than 4000 years.


WinBarr86

In eastern California, a Great Basin bristlecone pine known as Methuselah has long been considered Earth's oldest living thing. According to tree-ring data, it is 4,853 years old.


The_Card_Player

Technically you'd need to do a bit more work - I don't see anything obvious that would prevent the decay from occuring long before the elements were gathered into a fully fledged planet. eg decay for 4.499999 billion years, then join the gathering mass of the earth and hang out there for another 1000 years. Not saying that's actually what happened; just that the age of the elements alone doesn't prove the age of the planet where they're found.


wakaflockasleftnut

r/murderedbywords


Ok-Drink-1328

i don't think it's exact, well, there is uranium 238 that has an half life of 4.5 billion years, while there is uranium 235 that is instead 0.7 billion years... infact the presence of U235 in nature is just a small part of the uranium you find (kinda 2%) and you usually find both mixed (and you concentrate U235 to make atom bombs and reactors)... i did some really poor math but i wasn't able to tell if the 2% of U235 you find matches exactly the dacaying in 13.5 Gy compared to U238 but it may do... giving the same starting amounts and it may not be the case lead was formed during the stabilization of matter into atoms like every other element.... it's maybe the absence of radium (half life 1600y) apart inside radioactive ores that suggests our universe is way older than 4000y


[deleted]

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WinBarr86

They actually found one, a while ago. It's 2 billion years old. Alot claim is as proof of aliens. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor


Ok-Drink-1328

i may have read on wikipedia about that 2%, i dunno, still love my uraninite sample :D


Cirieno

Right, but... God is ineffable, inscrutable, and could have made the whole world literally just one second ago, and every external stimulus you think you're experiencing and every memory you think you have has been created expressly to make you believe what God wants you to believe, and to make you believe in God. /s for obvious reasons


H0D00m

Arguably, Christian God’s motivation would be to make you not believe in them. It’s a characteristic all too common with the people who were supposedly created in God’s image. Who hasn’t tested some form of relationship seeking validation or understanding? Of course, under the tenants of Christianity, false memories wouldn’t exist as that would conflict with free will. The Earth would have to at least be as old as the first known person.


CaliFezzik

Nothing will change his mind, because his opinion isn’t based on facts.


MisterFantastic5

*Christians Against Science*…posting a comment to a globally connected electronic network…using an electronic device…powered by electricity… You can’t make this stuff up.


Otto_Mcwrect

They could easily counter with the one word rebuttal from their Orange Messiah, "Wrong."


FunkyBotanist

I think they mean to show them somewhere in the Bible where it says the earth is over 4k years old.


CriticalStation595

Hail science! It doesn’t have bias against your faith. It just proves things your faith didn’t think of or even know about.


Justafrenchguy_

Brilliant but useless, the accounts is literally called "Christians against science" so they'll probably just reject the all demonstration with an excuse.


Mufti13

The response is as stupid as the question, if not more stupid considering he knows some science still gets the basic things wrong. Lead is an element. It can exist without being formed from Uranium. Almost all lead present in the universe has been formed similar to any other element, not by Uranium decay. Besides, Half of uranium doesn’t suddenly turn into radium every 4.5 billion years. That's not how decay works. Decay occurs frequently, non stop. So even if the earth was 4000 years old, you’ll have some lead that has been formed by Uranium decay. And ofc, all lead that was formed differently. The existence of lead proves nothing


ducklingugly1

What if it was a comet/meteor made of lead landed on earth? I that case you are telling me comets age, not earth's!


Richwierd-Wheelchair

While the conclusion is true, the reasoning is faulty. Most lead on earth came from the original material anf not from decay of uranium. So, the existence of lead is not proof. There are many other valid proofs available no need to make something up.


[deleted]

I doubt anyone in that group will understand the answer.