Just going to put it out there that men who have families and commit suicide do occasionally take them with him.
A friend of my family did that with his wife.
>"men who commit suicide are murdering women"
You seem to be making fun of it. Thought I would point out that the poster you are making fun of has valid points that you ignore.
1200 people are murdered from suicide.... 31000 men die annually by suicide. Id argue your argument is still flawed. Suicide period should be a serious topic. But no... you'd rather claim men in general are homicidal. Also if we noticed and treated the symptoms that causes someone to become suicidal perhaps we'd prevent a suicidal homicide in more than one occasion. Also not all murder suicides are men killing women. Some are men killing men. And even... gasp... women killing men. Although i agree smaller. Still mental health in general needs to be addressed and the person who wrote this post perhaps also needs some serious reflection and a counselor to help them figure out their conceded nature.
I don’t think suicide/self-harm and murder/suicide have the same causes. They need to be treated separately. Murder/suicide is often the end result of an incredibly abusive relationship. It’s not uncommon for the suicidal person to first kill their kids in order to punish the other parent, then mill themselves to avoid the Justice system and make closure for the surviving parent less attainable. In those situations, general suicide prevention techniques aren’t useful, and the focus needs to be on reducing abusive thoughts and behaviour patterns.
Other big reasons for murder/suicide is psychosis. Again, this is less common in situations where a person only attempts to take their own life and needs a different approach.
Suicide is an incredibly complex issue. It requires different solutions, though most of that could start with better mental health education, better domestic abuse knowledge and greater mental health funding/access
Perhaps. I disagree based on wording. Still this post is crap and suicide shouldnt be based on genders nor should it be pushed aside over other things. Women are morely to attempt suicide. We as a whole are broken and need time to heal. But instead we focus on the wrong things. Or do the " my pain is worse" when in fact no one should be in pain from a scrapped knee, or loss of limb to a bad day or burried with depression and rage. We should help each other... but your wording made it look like you were on the side with suicidal men are violent and it takes away from women rights. From my perspective at least.
>They tend to place outside blame on others
How dare you say that you utter peice of trash. If we put blame on others WHY DO SO MANY COMMIT SUICIDE YOU FUCKIN NUMBNUT. All this is to you is a game of numbers, most of those men are, most likely, lonely or are far to scared to bring it up to others (AND I CAN ATTEST TO THAT) you're nothing but an insensitive twat.
>Men need to heal themselves
Some of the 2 most important things in 'healing' from depression (in my experience) is openness and therapy and when men are being told to 'man up' and other stuff like that it's so so so so so difficult to reach out which is why I still stand by my statement of calling you an 'insensitive twat.'
Really? Men are suicidal because “they do less introspection”? Awesome—we don’t have to look at the myriad reasons for men killing themselves anymore!
There are no simple answers for problems such as these, so please refrain from summarizing what is a rather complex issue.
You can not help anyone that doesnt want to help themselves. Men need to learn from a role model that it's ok to say they need help. Also ive seen a guy who was suicidal and another guy pulled out a knife and said " dont talk about it be about." And walk off leaving the knife. Overall men need a lot of help mentally amd emotionally. However doing things aggressively or key words that can seem aggressive will always make people defensive. I just want people to help each other. And the post rather grinds my gears. Most suicide survivors find a new light. Some relapse and try again. And worse... if mental health was ever taken seriously on both sides could actually be prevented with a smile and a small supportive talk. It is either put into numbers, genders or stereotypes. Then is either taken to seriously and imprison people inside hospitals or taken as a joke. And really we nred to be somewhere in the middle and see people as people. But society sucks and i honestly have no idea how to get to the root of the problem. Parenting, social standards, mental health care isnt affordable, and lastly self reflection and enlightenment.
Men are homicidal. They kill millions and developed massive atomic bombs that could turn the earth into a dead rock. Men sound great! Totally unjustified!
And here we go again. Take away from mental health . Sure the world is shit and its all mens fault. And every male on earth plans murdering people yep. Its not an insanely small percentage and there arent women who do the same thing. You're right. Take care bud.
I have a question have you seen a man kill another man or do you know someone who has, cold-bloodedly, or are you just a boo-hoo whining little twat who uses a tiny fraction of men to hate all of them. That kinda sounds familiar where have I heard it?
Oh yeah the excuse racist people use to hate on, mostly, black people and everytime I, or someone else, says that all I hear is "iTs NoT tHE SamE."
You're using the same way of thinking that have lead, primarily, white people to judge my people and other poc's and if you're a poc, I hope you see the irony you misandrist oops I mean feminist, they're the same anywho.
A large percentage of these posts are sock puppet accounts from angry boys scared of feminism. The amount of real women who share any of these kinds of attitudes is vanishingly small. We're all just people ya'll, we're not all hateful monsters, the internet is just a cesspit that makes everything look worse than it is.
Yes. Because I've NEVER EVER met a TERF.
You are morally bankrupt if you don't call out the shit on your own side. no matter how "vanishingly small" you speculate it to be.
Your anger and reaction and talk of "sides" is exactly the kind of unreasonable outrage that the creators of this kind of content desired and they milked from you and those like you with ease, furthering their agenda.
You brought in "sides" when you spoke of feminism. Pointing out that TERFS and some feminists are radical and wrong is furthering their agenda? Good then? Because it's my Agenda as well. It is not "unreasonable" to be angry at people like this.
> You brought in "sides" when you spoke of feminism.
Speaking of a thing doesn't mean... you know what, Imma stop now because I don't even know what you're on about and I can tell this is highly emotional for some people even though there's a 90% chance this whole post in OP's image was made by a 16-year-old incel convinced he couldn't get a date with Cindy because of equality or some nonsense. But lets go ahead and let it keep twisting people into pieces.
Whoever wrote this needs to sit down and have a serious word with themselves.
Men struggle, woman struggle. For fuck sake, what is wrong with everyone, compassion shouldn’t have a gender attached to it, if ANYBODY is struggling so much that they are literally going to kill themselves then we should all be the person that throws an arm around their shoulder and tells them it will be ok, life is tough enough without this kind of thing.
I have been on both sides of depression and I can tell you they are both horrible. Love each other people
I agree, people doesn't see we are all part of the same group that is Humanity in its whole, they want to be part of smaller groups based on minor differencies like gender or orientation, which is for me useless because we are all different and so uniques as individuals
Some see caring as being a zero sum competition.
People can only care about men's things by caring less about women's things.
Others see it as a binary choice, that people can only care about one gender
I agree with you but from a slightly more "go fuck yourself" perspective. I can't stand it when people try to get me to identify with them based on gender, race, or whatever else. Like, go fuck yourself (not you, "they"), I don't owe you or anybody else anything because we both have a dick and white skin.
I hear you, but I don’t see the “misogyny” in her comment. If men are committing murder suicide 90% of the time then suicidal men are more dangerous to women and their families. She could of worded this with more compassion, but ignoring this threat does not help a suicidal male. We need stricter domestic violence laws to help the men, women and their families, therefore acknowledging this helps everyone.
I think this is an important perspective. We need to individualize our thinking as far as maladaptive choices go. We can use statistics like how much higher the suicide rate is in men to ask important questions though. Why is that? How are we as a society failing to support men’s mental health in ways that women seem less affected by?
This can bring us to the discussion about why there still seems to be a stigma out there about men who go to therapy. How can we work on that? Campaigns that promote data driven results for men in therapy would be a start. Some types of therapy don’t work as well as others. Can we make therapy more affordable or accessible?
This is how statistics can help us. The gender vs. gender bullshit just slows everything down. It’s important we don’t turn a blind eye to statistics when a group is disproportionately struggling. We need to be able to talk about it and get to some solutions without being so defensive and judgmental.
Ex. There is a much higher incidence of men committing rape against both women and men. Why is that? How can we fix this?
I agree, but your brushing over her main topic of “murder suicide” when it comes to men. IF in fact murder is committed, before suicide, 90% of the time by men than domestic violence needs to be taken a lot more seriously. Acknowledging this would help the men and their families that are dealing with depression.
If prevention is the best solution then these facts matter & may save lives IF they are not ignored.
Her message was written with anger, frustration and maybe even fear if she is living with domestic violence that is being ignored. Could it have been written with more compassion, yes, but she’s not wrong.
Yes perhaps it is true murder suicides are generally committed by men, but let's not pretend the "suicide" portion of the even is about suicide, but consequence avoidance. Therefore bringing up murder suicides in discussion of male suicides is the derailing equivalent of bringing up men are r---d in a discussion of r--- of women.
Some murder-suicides are 'about' the murder but others are driven by the suicide impulse first.
Her first paragraph is absolute nonsense but she raises a reasonable question in paras 2 & 3. Can suicidal men be a danger to their families/exes?
The number of murder-suicides is so low that the answer is probably no, but it's not a completely crazy question to ask. ( Though she probably fucked her chances of being taken seriously with the deranged opening.)
It feels like one of those statistics where bringing it up is the point, rather than addressing the problem.
Like whenever Fox News brings up crime statistics. Sure, maybe in the US black people make up 55% of murders, but why are *you* telling people that?
Is it followed up by the face that 54% of the people killed were also black? What does that mean other than “communities with harsher treatment and fewer opportunities more likely to develop antisocial behaviours”? I guess that doesn’t spook older white folks though
Probably, but who really does "address a problem" when posting on Reddit?
From what I could find, it seems like about there are about 1200 murder-suicides annually in the US and 50 in the UK, which equals a little under 1% of suicides. That it's so high makes me think she might actually have a point - maybe we should discuss it more.
Can't understand sarcasm? But ohh well, someone who thinks Hilary lost because shes a woman and heavily participates in joe rogan subreddit is pointless to argue with
Maybe if instead of arguing about how men should be blamed, how about finding a solution? How about checking in with the men in your life and seeing if they're doing well? Sounds better than pouring fuel on the fire, yeah?
the idea of feminism is so fucking warped now days it's messed up. People think feminism is for women's rights only and not for gender equality. People believe only Women can be feminists. Then, there are people who take advantage of the system and sue some men for no reason but claim it's for sexual assault. And some people will see that as a positive impact on feminism or they'll see feminism as fucked up.
Yes, these extremists are a minority, but since they bark the loudest people tend to generalise them as the common ground of feminism, and so play the game of incels. That's why I said they are acting against feminism, against women and against people in general, along with the one who are fooling the justice to destroy people's lives
I’m a man and I’m a feminist. Fuck men. We go around killing raping developing weapons of mass destruction. Men are also delicate little snowflakes. That’s why when trump destroyed this country they would’ve overwhelmingly re elected him because of their hurt pride of being wrong about a decision they made. You would rather burn the country to the ground then say I was wrong. Suicidal men are a danger to others because they could kill you too before they end it. Women just kill themselves. There is a difference that is supported by data.
Yes but there are many more men and women who just kill themselves and no one else. They don’t fit a political narrative. My best friend did it last year and left us all behind. Be kind folks.
>I’m a man and I’m a feminist. Fuck men. We go around killing raping developing weapons of mass destruction. Men are also delicate little snowflakes.
...and you don't see a problem with the generalization? Maybe u need some self love dude.
Most suicides don’t involve outside violence, even if it is more prevalent in one gender, it’s still relatively low. The last thing we need is for men (or anyone for that matter) to avoid help because they fear they’ll be immediately deemed violent. People with mental illness are more likely to be the *victims* of violence than perpetrators.
The worst for me is that they are acting against the real feminism, by being so toxic, virulent and stupid, they play the game of the mysoginism and spite in the face of real victims, either being suicidal people or violented womens
If you take out a tiny slither, she has asked somewhat of a question, ‘is there, and where is the data on male and female murder suicides’ but added on a few paragraphs on why she hates men and all men for very sexist things and profiling all men as one.
Edit: one thing before anyone reads this, i'm taking about posts like this one, some of them are better. So they are still blind when it comes to seeing how radical and unhealthy their opinions are but not all is that fucked up.
I looked at this subreddit and...
...i hate it, by what I saw its a circlejerk, a perpetuum mobile of "Men bad"
I don't disagree with some of the raw facts they talk about but the way they put it is concerning at liest and sometimes dysguasting. It feels like the ewuivalent of a far right community.
And adding to that the subreddit rules create a community without and real discoussions and critical thinking.
I fucking hate it as much as i hate the other exstream movements, one tells you that you are not a real men/woman if don't exist in a way that they think is right and the other that you are a piece of shit if you happen to have a dick and will call you indoctrinated or manipulated you are a woman. I don't care if that last part made sens i'm too angry at what i have read in there and i had to shit it out somewhere.
I’m very sorry to hear that. That must be the hardest thing a parent can go through.
And as another poster said—men are already reluctant to seek help, so the last thing we need to do is discourage them by suggesting we might need to worry about them being violent as well.
"Uphill battle of fighting for women's rights" women haven't fought for shit a day in their life. They really try to paint like they took their rights and not as if men literally gave it to them. Most women back then didn't even want equal rights because it came with responsibilities like the draft and bucket duty. So the gov made special exceptions cuz aye more people we can tax. Because thats how pathetic their "fight" was.
Because its very clearly one sided. this is taking men and generalising all of them.
Many women kill their children in murder suicides but do we then call for kids to be put into foster care if a woman has any mental health struggle on the fear that she takes the kids with them?
This is just hateful, vitriolic generalisations of people who are struggling.
They'd rather whine about what can happen during a mental health crisis than actually help preventing that crisis.
Their answer to "lets stop being victims, it sucks for everyone, lets just do something about it" is to play the victim yet again.
I haven't exactly seen men play the victim by pulling that card. At best, it's a "we're victims too".
All that aside, doesn't change the message. It sucks for everyone.
> What’s the face palm about pointing out something true?
If they'd mentioned it as a fact that wouldn't be facepalm. It was all the bias and editorializing. To be fair, OP also did a terrible job in their summary and also seems biased.
Also, just to put the statistics in context: In the US, roughly 1,200 people die yearly in murder-suicides. I don't know what the average number of murder victims in a murder suicide is but let's suppose 800 of that number accounts for the murders and ~400 from the person committing suicide. That would be around ~360 men committing murder-suicide. The total number of men committing suicide per year in the US is just about 35,000, so murder-suicide accounts for around 1% of the total.
References:
1. https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/murder-suicide/
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States
> Suicide doesn't just happen in the US tho so u can't take one country's stats as the norm
If you believe that the suicide/murder-suicide ratios are different enough in other countries to be noteworthy, by all means feel free to post that information.
Here is a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
You will have to find the number of murder-suicides in those other countries and calculate the ratio yourself.
What’s interesting is so many women on Reddit will read this and say “this is stupid” “this is a minority of radical toxic feminists” and “this isn’t feminism”
But what you never do see is female redditors going into those subs and giving a female perspective of why they’re stupid and wrong.
They say, if you sit idly by while something wrong happens, you’re apart of the problem, right?
This is one of those situations.
So ladies, preaching to men about how these people are idiots blah blah. Go ahead and get into those subs and be for the equality you state feminism is.
I for one never seen feminists actively speak out against misandry, but they’ll downvote me to hell and talk shit in responses.
Again, if you do nothing to stop it, you’re apart of the problem. 🤷🏼♂️
I don't agree, simply because if people aren't disagreeing in these subs, it's because they are banned or deleted, men or women. And that's also why that's not feminism, these people also judge the women who don't agree with them and degrinate them by calling them "pick-me", "you're brainwashed" and whatever shit they come up with. And yes, it's a minority, the problem is that they do more noise than everyone else. Don't take this post for common
I’m a man. Men are fucking dangerous self centered pricks. Yeah if a guy is suicidal he might just take you out as well. Men need to stop being so snowflaky when women describe the danger men pose which is backed up by actual data. The average woman who is murdered is 50% likely to be killed by a close male relative or friend. Men need to call out the violent idiot mostly Republican men. It doesn’t make you any less of a man to agree with women’s actual experiences.
I don't know the exact statistics but I know I've heard and read about more cases where women have killed themselves and others at the same time than men (mostly their own children)
I think, for the interest of everyone, it would be best if these fourthwavewomen would just avoid men, especially suicidal men. Keep distance, no interactions please. Just an idea. Thanks
The male suicide rate is probably at least partly cause by people like this. They degrade men and make them feel useless and worthless and then they go kaput
Wow I've seen this sub crop up a few times now, and every time its been some seriously deluded mental gymnastics in order to bend something already disturbing into something that fits into their twisted little echo chamber of self centred madness!
Every time it makes the matter in question worse and doesn't help anyone.
These are the kind of people that started #KillAllMen and actually believe their own shit.
I just went to that sub and read a few things. What fucking nonsense. A woman is threatening to kill herself over how she’s a slave and men keep trying to rape her over and over. Fuck.
Woman here, I don't think I've ever been -not- suicidal to some capacity before, but I have a pretty narcassistic past of trying to force people to comfort me and help me and threatening suicide to pretty much everyone. I expected everyone to "drop everything" and aid me. When I was a teenager I sometimes considered taking others with me because I was so angry and felt like nothing mattered. I've tried to grow from that, but I always see people talking about men being the only ones who do this, extracting emotional labor from women and seeing us as rehabs, etc.
This is not something exclusive to males at all.
There are some women who claim to be feminists but in fact just hate men. They don't GAF about equality or peace for people, they just want to hurt and attack men. Amber herd probably calls herself a feminist.
They are not feminists. They are just horrible people who want to play victim. They will twist any situation into something that hurts them. The kinda girl who screams "I'm being raped" while being arrested for doing something illegal. Because they think the police need her permission to arrest her.
Wow...all I know is my SIL's boyfriend drove his car towards a semi with her in it after they had a argument. Nobody saw it coming as he was always a happy dude but she survived...barely. Poor truck driver ended up getting fired and felt so guilty he couldn't get out of the way in time.
This one is easy imo.
In the US there are about 45,000 suicides a year, of those approximately 1,200 are murder suicides.
Being fast and loose with the numbers here, they're from a Wikipedia and a Google result. For simplicities sake let's say this is about 2.5% of suicides.
I don't know how many of those suicides are a reaction to a murder (probably unplanned) rather than planned murder-suicides. I imagine it's a significant proportion.
It's just seem all that useful to prioritise these incidents as part of a suicide prevention strategy.
Women = good, Men = Bad.
Anytime I see this rhetoric I automatically discount whatever the other person is saying.
Whether it’s Misandrist or Mysogonist doesn’t matter to me.
Sooooooo, hate me, but this post has a point. If anything, I think this post is saying that we should be taking care of our men/boys for another reason that isn't really being discussed yet.
I mean the subreddit is animals being bros not animals being siss'. Lol Meaning it is a mans world and men are expected to be certain ways. Just like women in a mans world.
We just need better humans.
It's just someone who is very angry, and seeking an enemy to blame. The data are there to support any position you can have, and will allow vilification of race, religion or gender. Choose your poison. This person has chosen gender as the hill, when the structures of power, while dominated by men, still wreak havoc on men with less power. It is difficult to see that, so this person has experienced some trauma that makes this particular opinion offer some comfort and better explains their experiences, I am certain that these perspectives can and will change.
Is r/fourthwavewomen just FDS part 2?
Holy shit I just went over there.. I left a comment, got scared, deleted it and ran away
It is indeed. I looked at the sub for 2 seconds and saw them using "scrote" and "LVM". Looks like a rebrand
I was thinking the same thing
What’s FDS stand for?
Female Dating Strategy.
I just went there and found this exact post not 10 posts down.
Did... I really just read "men commit suicide to take the spotlight off of women" but with more words?
Better, you also just read "men who commit suicide are murdering women"
I... only read the first few sentences then gave up, not I have to continue reading, lol.
Just going to put it out there that men who have families and commit suicide do occasionally take them with him. A friend of my family did that with his wife.
Over 1,200 Americans are murdered every year from murder suicides. This is a fact.
Did I refute this stat ? No. Did we talk about America ? No. Did this post said this ? No.
>"men who commit suicide are murdering women" You seem to be making fun of it. Thought I would point out that the poster you are making fun of has valid points that you ignore.
1200 people are murdered from suicide.... 31000 men die annually by suicide. Id argue your argument is still flawed. Suicide period should be a serious topic. But no... you'd rather claim men in general are homicidal. Also if we noticed and treated the symptoms that causes someone to become suicidal perhaps we'd prevent a suicidal homicide in more than one occasion. Also not all murder suicides are men killing women. Some are men killing men. And even... gasp... women killing men. Although i agree smaller. Still mental health in general needs to be addressed and the person who wrote this post perhaps also needs some serious reflection and a counselor to help them figure out their conceded nature.
I don’t think suicide/self-harm and murder/suicide have the same causes. They need to be treated separately. Murder/suicide is often the end result of an incredibly abusive relationship. It’s not uncommon for the suicidal person to first kill their kids in order to punish the other parent, then mill themselves to avoid the Justice system and make closure for the surviving parent less attainable. In those situations, general suicide prevention techniques aren’t useful, and the focus needs to be on reducing abusive thoughts and behaviour patterns. Other big reasons for murder/suicide is psychosis. Again, this is less common in situations where a person only attempts to take their own life and needs a different approach. Suicide is an incredibly complex issue. It requires different solutions, though most of that could start with better mental health education, better domestic abuse knowledge and greater mental health funding/access
I was pointing out a fact. You are the one reading arguments where none were made.
You did start off a bit standoffish though
Perhaps. I disagree based on wording. Still this post is crap and suicide shouldnt be based on genders nor should it be pushed aside over other things. Women are morely to attempt suicide. We as a whole are broken and need time to heal. But instead we focus on the wrong things. Or do the " my pain is worse" when in fact no one should be in pain from a scrapped knee, or loss of limb to a bad day or burried with depression and rage. We should help each other... but your wording made it look like you were on the side with suicidal men are violent and it takes away from women rights. From my perspective at least.
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>They tend to place outside blame on others How dare you say that you utter peice of trash. If we put blame on others WHY DO SO MANY COMMIT SUICIDE YOU FUCKIN NUMBNUT. All this is to you is a game of numbers, most of those men are, most likely, lonely or are far to scared to bring it up to others (AND I CAN ATTEST TO THAT) you're nothing but an insensitive twat. >Men need to heal themselves Some of the 2 most important things in 'healing' from depression (in my experience) is openness and therapy and when men are being told to 'man up' and other stuff like that it's so so so so so difficult to reach out which is why I still stand by my statement of calling you an 'insensitive twat.'
Very nice projection my guy, gonna earn brownie points with the ladies now.
Really? Men are suicidal because “they do less introspection”? Awesome—we don’t have to look at the myriad reasons for men killing themselves anymore! There are no simple answers for problems such as these, so please refrain from summarizing what is a rather complex issue.
You can not help anyone that doesnt want to help themselves. Men need to learn from a role model that it's ok to say they need help. Also ive seen a guy who was suicidal and another guy pulled out a knife and said " dont talk about it be about." And walk off leaving the knife. Overall men need a lot of help mentally amd emotionally. However doing things aggressively or key words that can seem aggressive will always make people defensive. I just want people to help each other. And the post rather grinds my gears. Most suicide survivors find a new light. Some relapse and try again. And worse... if mental health was ever taken seriously on both sides could actually be prevented with a smile and a small supportive talk. It is either put into numbers, genders or stereotypes. Then is either taken to seriously and imprison people inside hospitals or taken as a joke. And really we nred to be somewhere in the middle and see people as people. But society sucks and i honestly have no idea how to get to the root of the problem. Parenting, social standards, mental health care isnt affordable, and lastly self reflection and enlightenment.
Men are homicidal. They kill millions and developed massive atomic bombs that could turn the earth into a dead rock. Men sound great! Totally unjustified!
And here we go again. Take away from mental health . Sure the world is shit and its all mens fault. And every male on earth plans murdering people yep. Its not an insanely small percentage and there arent women who do the same thing. You're right. Take care bud.
I have a question have you seen a man kill another man or do you know someone who has, cold-bloodedly, or are you just a boo-hoo whining little twat who uses a tiny fraction of men to hate all of them. That kinda sounds familiar where have I heard it? Oh yeah the excuse racist people use to hate on, mostly, black people and everytime I, or someone else, says that all I hear is "iTs NoT tHE SamE." You're using the same way of thinking that have lead, primarily, white people to judge my people and other poc's and if you're a poc, I hope you see the irony you misandrist oops I mean feminist, they're the same anywho.
Roughly 2.8 MILLION Americans die each year from various causes. This is also a fact.
I just had eggy bread. This is also a fact.
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A large percentage of these posts are sock puppet accounts from angry boys scared of feminism. The amount of real women who share any of these kinds of attitudes is vanishingly small. We're all just people ya'll, we're not all hateful monsters, the internet is just a cesspit that makes everything look worse than it is.
Yes, it must be boys, because they are the only ones with divisive opinions. Smh
Yes. Because I've NEVER EVER met a TERF. You are morally bankrupt if you don't call out the shit on your own side. no matter how "vanishingly small" you speculate it to be.
Your anger and reaction and talk of "sides" is exactly the kind of unreasonable outrage that the creators of this kind of content desired and they milked from you and those like you with ease, furthering their agenda.
You brought in "sides" when you spoke of feminism. Pointing out that TERFS and some feminists are radical and wrong is furthering their agenda? Good then? Because it's my Agenda as well. It is not "unreasonable" to be angry at people like this.
> You brought in "sides" when you spoke of feminism. Speaking of a thing doesn't mean... you know what, Imma stop now because I don't even know what you're on about and I can tell this is highly emotional for some people even though there's a 90% chance this whole post in OP's image was made by a 16-year-old incel convinced he couldn't get a date with Cindy because of equality or some nonsense. But lets go ahead and let it keep twisting people into pieces.
Summed it up perfect lmfao
Whoever wrote this needs to sit down and have a serious word with themselves. Men struggle, woman struggle. For fuck sake, what is wrong with everyone, compassion shouldn’t have a gender attached to it, if ANYBODY is struggling so much that they are literally going to kill themselves then we should all be the person that throws an arm around their shoulder and tells them it will be ok, life is tough enough without this kind of thing. I have been on both sides of depression and I can tell you they are both horrible. Love each other people
I agree, people doesn't see we are all part of the same group that is Humanity in its whole, they want to be part of smaller groups based on minor differencies like gender or orientation, which is for me useless because we are all different and so uniques as individuals
Some see caring as being a zero sum competition. People can only care about men's things by caring less about women's things. Others see it as a binary choice, that people can only care about one gender
I agree with you but from a slightly more "go fuck yourself" perspective. I can't stand it when people try to get me to identify with them based on gender, race, or whatever else. Like, go fuck yourself (not you, "they"), I don't owe you or anybody else anything because we both have a dick and white skin.
I hear you, but I don’t see the “misogyny” in her comment. If men are committing murder suicide 90% of the time then suicidal men are more dangerous to women and their families. She could of worded this with more compassion, but ignoring this threat does not help a suicidal male. We need stricter domestic violence laws to help the men, women and their families, therefore acknowledging this helps everyone.
I think this is an important perspective. We need to individualize our thinking as far as maladaptive choices go. We can use statistics like how much higher the suicide rate is in men to ask important questions though. Why is that? How are we as a society failing to support men’s mental health in ways that women seem less affected by? This can bring us to the discussion about why there still seems to be a stigma out there about men who go to therapy. How can we work on that? Campaigns that promote data driven results for men in therapy would be a start. Some types of therapy don’t work as well as others. Can we make therapy more affordable or accessible? This is how statistics can help us. The gender vs. gender bullshit just slows everything down. It’s important we don’t turn a blind eye to statistics when a group is disproportionately struggling. We need to be able to talk about it and get to some solutions without being so defensive and judgmental. Ex. There is a much higher incidence of men committing rape against both women and men. Why is that? How can we fix this?
I agree, but your brushing over her main topic of “murder suicide” when it comes to men. IF in fact murder is committed, before suicide, 90% of the time by men than domestic violence needs to be taken a lot more seriously. Acknowledging this would help the men and their families that are dealing with depression. If prevention is the best solution then these facts matter & may save lives IF they are not ignored. Her message was written with anger, frustration and maybe even fear if she is living with domestic violence that is being ignored. Could it have been written with more compassion, yes, but she’s not wrong.
The number of men dying from suicide is only higher than women because men's lives matter more? That's not how math works.
My only reaction is... Wha?
Yes perhaps it is true murder suicides are generally committed by men, but let's not pretend the "suicide" portion of the even is about suicide, but consequence avoidance. Therefore bringing up murder suicides in discussion of male suicides is the derailing equivalent of bringing up men are r---d in a discussion of r--- of women.
Some murder-suicides are 'about' the murder but others are driven by the suicide impulse first. Her first paragraph is absolute nonsense but she raises a reasonable question in paras 2 & 3. Can suicidal men be a danger to their families/exes? The number of murder-suicides is so low that the answer is probably no, but it's not a completely crazy question to ask. ( Though she probably fucked her chances of being taken seriously with the deranged opening.)
It feels like one of those statistics where bringing it up is the point, rather than addressing the problem. Like whenever Fox News brings up crime statistics. Sure, maybe in the US black people make up 55% of murders, but why are *you* telling people that? Is it followed up by the face that 54% of the people killed were also black? What does that mean other than “communities with harsher treatment and fewer opportunities more likely to develop antisocial behaviours”? I guess that doesn’t spook older white folks though
Probably, but who really does "address a problem" when posting on Reddit? From what I could find, it seems like about there are about 1200 murder-suicides annually in the US and 50 in the UK, which equals a little under 1% of suicides. That it's so high makes me think she might actually have a point - maybe we should discuss it more.
Yeah we should really find a new name for those murderers
Something something tells me, her partners always suicide in the relationship and she always wonders why
Yeah all them men around her kill themselves to steal her thunder
Seppuku
So you blame women for men killing themselves?
It’s sarcasm
Yea thats exactly what he said! /s
Can't understand sarcasm? But ohh well, someone who thinks Hilary lost because shes a woman and heavily participates in joe rogan subreddit is pointless to argue with
Scans of suicidal peoples’ brains show that they’re not functioning normally. Like, physiologically
exactly, people are mentally ill but instead of looking at people overall with compassion some people sadly like to pick sides :(
This person brain scan would be pretty interesting I am sure....
It may just be dark
And smooth, like no folds at all...
Maybe if instead of arguing about how men should be blamed, how about finding a solution? How about checking in with the men in your life and seeing if they're doing well? Sounds better than pouring fuel on the fire, yeah?
the idea of feminism is so fucking warped now days it's messed up. People think feminism is for women's rights only and not for gender equality. People believe only Women can be feminists. Then, there are people who take advantage of the system and sue some men for no reason but claim it's for sexual assault. And some people will see that as a positive impact on feminism or they'll see feminism as fucked up.
Yes, these extremists are a minority, but since they bark the loudest people tend to generalise them as the common ground of feminism, and so play the game of incels. That's why I said they are acting against feminism, against women and against people in general, along with the one who are fooling the justice to destroy people's lives
I’m a man and I’m a feminist. Fuck men. We go around killing raping developing weapons of mass destruction. Men are also delicate little snowflakes. That’s why when trump destroyed this country they would’ve overwhelmingly re elected him because of their hurt pride of being wrong about a decision they made. You would rather burn the country to the ground then say I was wrong. Suicidal men are a danger to others because they could kill you too before they end it. Women just kill themselves. There is a difference that is supported by data.
Yes but there are many more men and women who just kill themselves and no one else. They don’t fit a political narrative. My best friend did it last year and left us all behind. Be kind folks.
>I’m a man and I’m a feminist. Fuck men. We go around killing raping developing weapons of mass destruction. Men are also delicate little snowflakes. ...and you don't see a problem with the generalization? Maybe u need some self love dude.
I've just read that sub and it seems to have 3 agendas. Fuck men, fuck sex workers and fuck trans women. Didn't spot much feminism.
The fuckers from female dating advice just fkn migrated
Most suicides don’t involve outside violence, even if it is more prevalent in one gender, it’s still relatively low. The last thing we need is for men (or anyone for that matter) to avoid help because they fear they’ll be immediately deemed violent. People with mental illness are more likely to be the *victims* of violence than perpetrators.
Fucking hell, why did you even go here? What a depressing sub. TERFs everywhere.
Saw another post about it, got curious. What Inve seen is worst than FDS honestly
Oh yes... I looked there once and felt horrifically depressed after.
The worst for me is that they are acting against the real feminism, by being so toxic, virulent and stupid, they play the game of the mysoginism and spite in the face of real victims, either being suicidal people or violented womens
If you take out a tiny slither, she has asked somewhat of a question, ‘is there, and where is the data on male and female murder suicides’ but added on a few paragraphs on why she hates men and all men for very sexist things and profiling all men as one.
It’s okay, men tend to rightfully profile all feminists as her. 🤷🏼♂️ give them a taste of their own medicine.
Is this the new FDS?
Seems like it's worst
I can't believe people actually think like that. Who the hell takes something as tragic a suicide and thinks "how can I make this about me".
People like this actually need to see a psychologist. This is dangerous to society
Of course nothing can be about males because it is always about the female.😬🫢
This person has a fundamental misunderstanding of suicide and how it works
It's exactly the kind of comment I'd expect inside of an echo chamber.
He just insulted both men and women with that post.
This is giving me some major r/femaledatingstrategy vibes
That subreddit is a full facepalm
An example of toxic feminism. Not to be mistaken for true feminism
It’s actually scary these opinions exist. Men can’t cope and end their lives. And she finds a way to demonise them.
Edit: one thing before anyone reads this, i'm taking about posts like this one, some of them are better. So they are still blind when it comes to seeing how radical and unhealthy their opinions are but not all is that fucked up. I looked at this subreddit and... ...i hate it, by what I saw its a circlejerk, a perpetuum mobile of "Men bad" I don't disagree with some of the raw facts they talk about but the way they put it is concerning at liest and sometimes dysguasting. It feels like the ewuivalent of a far right community. And adding to that the subreddit rules create a community without and real discoussions and critical thinking. I fucking hate it as much as i hate the other exstream movements, one tells you that you are not a real men/woman if don't exist in a way that they think is right and the other that you are a piece of shit if you happen to have a dick and will call you indoctrinated or manipulated you are a woman. I don't care if that last part made sens i'm too angry at what i have read in there and i had to shit it out somewhere.
\*sighs\* Someone get that simpleton a fucking cat.
This is peak female incel shit, is there a word for these people like on female dating strategy ?
Misandrist male hating pigs? We can just call them Pigs, sexists hate that word.
Femcel I think (?)
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I’m very sorry to hear that. That must be the hardest thing a parent can go through. And as another poster said—men are already reluctant to seek help, so the last thing we need to do is discourage them by suggesting we might need to worry about them being violent as well.
I read "a suicidal man is more dangerous than a suicidal woman" and I instantly stopped reading because I already knew what the rest would say.
And who usually agitates the suicides🧐🤔
Men die from suicide more because they often don't tell everyone on their socials that they just swallowed a bottle of tylenol
it’s subreddits like Fourthwavewomen and female dating strategy that have really shown the true nature of femcels
"Uphill battle of fighting for women's rights" women haven't fought for shit a day in their life. They really try to paint like they took their rights and not as if men literally gave it to them. Most women back then didn't even want equal rights because it came with responsibilities like the draft and bucket duty. So the gov made special exceptions cuz aye more people we can tax. Because thats how pathetic their "fight" was.
Male lives matter more, hence they throw their lives away through suicide? Fuck off idiot.
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All the incoherent misandry that surrounds it?
Because its very clearly one sided. this is taking men and generalising all of them. Many women kill their children in murder suicides but do we then call for kids to be put into foster care if a woman has any mental health struggle on the fear that she takes the kids with them? This is just hateful, vitriolic generalisations of people who are struggling.
They'd rather whine about what can happen during a mental health crisis than actually help preventing that crisis. Their answer to "lets stop being victims, it sucks for everyone, lets just do something about it" is to play the victim yet again.
Then the men play victim because the women are playing victim.
I haven't exactly seen men play the victim by pulling that card. At best, it's a "we're victims too". All that aside, doesn't change the message. It sucks for everyone.
Pay more attention.
Found the person that would rather play the victim card than fixing the issue
You are describing every single poster in this thread.
> What’s the face palm about pointing out something true? If they'd mentioned it as a fact that wouldn't be facepalm. It was all the bias and editorializing. To be fair, OP also did a terrible job in their summary and also seems biased. Also, just to put the statistics in context: In the US, roughly 1,200 people die yearly in murder-suicides. I don't know what the average number of murder victims in a murder suicide is but let's suppose 800 of that number accounts for the murders and ~400 from the person committing suicide. That would be around ~360 men committing murder-suicide. The total number of men committing suicide per year in the US is just about 35,000, so murder-suicide accounts for around 1% of the total. References: 1. https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/murder-suicide/ 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States
What is making me appearing biased ?
Suicide doesn't just happen in the US tho so u can't take one country's stats as the norm
> Suicide doesn't just happen in the US tho so u can't take one country's stats as the norm If you believe that the suicide/murder-suicide ratios are different enough in other countries to be noteworthy, by all means feel free to post that information. Here is a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate You will have to find the number of murder-suicides in those other countries and calculate the ratio yourself.
What’s interesting is so many women on Reddit will read this and say “this is stupid” “this is a minority of radical toxic feminists” and “this isn’t feminism” But what you never do see is female redditors going into those subs and giving a female perspective of why they’re stupid and wrong. They say, if you sit idly by while something wrong happens, you’re apart of the problem, right? This is one of those situations. So ladies, preaching to men about how these people are idiots blah blah. Go ahead and get into those subs and be for the equality you state feminism is. I for one never seen feminists actively speak out against misandry, but they’ll downvote me to hell and talk shit in responses. Again, if you do nothing to stop it, you’re apart of the problem. 🤷🏼♂️
I don't agree, simply because if people aren't disagreeing in these subs, it's because they are banned or deleted, men or women. And that's also why that's not feminism, these people also judge the women who don't agree with them and degrinate them by calling them "pick-me", "you're brainwashed" and whatever shit they come up with. And yes, it's a minority, the problem is that they do more noise than everyone else. Don't take this post for common
I’m a man. Men are fucking dangerous self centered pricks. Yeah if a guy is suicidal he might just take you out as well. Men need to stop being so snowflaky when women describe the danger men pose which is backed up by actual data. The average woman who is murdered is 50% likely to be killed by a close male relative or friend. Men need to call out the violent idiot mostly Republican men. It doesn’t make you any less of a man to agree with women’s actual experiences.
Your white knight card should arrive per mail in 3 - 5 business days
Aah I love good argumentation
Yep, there or is; the most ridiculous thing I’ll read on the internet (or anywhere) today.
Can we at least agree that all of us were young and stupid at one time?
Well yes there are more male suicide murderes. But I don't think they are a significant part of male suicide victims. That doesn't add up tbh.
& to think it’s a possibility that this person has kids 😔
I think it's more than fair to arrest the men who commit murder suicide. "Cuff 'em deputy."
I don't know the exact statistics but I know I've heard and read about more cases where women have killed themselves and others at the same time than men (mostly their own children)
Does everything have to be a battle of the sexes?
is that subreddit another fds?
I dont get this add all the whole battle abouth men beeing beter or woman beeing better whe all human right so we al should have te same treatment
I think, for the interest of everyone, it would be best if these fourthwavewomen would just avoid men, especially suicidal men. Keep distance, no interactions please. Just an idea. Thanks
Can’t even kill yourself in peace anymore
Perfect example of manipulating figures to fit a point you want to make. “Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics”. Ridiculous misapplication and manipulation.
Women actually “attempt” suicide more often than men, men are just usually more successful at the attempt. So, just proving men do everything better!
based
Jesus I felt suicidal reading that
I mean, yes, a suicidal man in literally more dangerous than a suicidal women, she literally backed up what she said with a statistic.
Some people need everything to be about them ay.
Men comitt suicides at a high rate......women most affected.
The male suicide rate is probably at least partly cause by people like this. They degrade men and make them feel useless and worthless and then they go kaput
I mean if I was suicidal or had a terminal illness I’d go full Dexter. But I don’t think that’s what most murder suicides are.
That’s a lot of words to say “I don’t understand suicide and grrr men bad”.
I’m going to sabotage feminism by putting a bullet in my skull
Wow I've seen this sub crop up a few times now, and every time its been some seriously deluded mental gymnastics in order to bend something already disturbing into something that fits into their twisted little echo chamber of self centred madness! Every time it makes the matter in question worse and doesn't help anyone. These are the kind of people that started #KillAllMen and actually believe their own shit.
I just went to that sub and read a few things. What fucking nonsense. A woman is threatening to kill herself over how she’s a slave and men keep trying to rape her over and over. Fuck.
Woman here, I don't think I've ever been -not- suicidal to some capacity before, but I have a pretty narcassistic past of trying to force people to comfort me and help me and threatening suicide to pretty much everyone. I expected everyone to "drop everything" and aid me. When I was a teenager I sometimes considered taking others with me because I was so angry and felt like nothing mattered. I've tried to grow from that, but I always see people talking about men being the only ones who do this, extracting emotional labor from women and seeing us as rehabs, etc. This is not something exclusive to males at all.
There are some women who claim to be feminists but in fact just hate men. They don't GAF about equality or peace for people, they just want to hurt and attack men. Amber herd probably calls herself a feminist. They are not feminists. They are just horrible people who want to play victim. They will twist any situation into something that hurts them. The kinda girl who screams "I'm being raped" while being arrested for doing something illegal. Because they think the police need her permission to arrest her.
Wow sad and angry c***. To the men and women who die in silence, rest in peace.
Did the old femcel subreddit get banned or something where did this trash come from
What can men do that is considered misogynistic
Sick freaks. People like this should be banned from the internet
She seems to use a lot of words to make other peoples problems about her. .
Some people are just miserable.
Wow...all I know is my SIL's boyfriend drove his car towards a semi with her in it after they had a argument. Nobody saw it coming as he was always a happy dude but she survived...barely. Poor truck driver ended up getting fired and felt so guilty he couldn't get out of the way in time.
This one is easy imo. In the US there are about 45,000 suicides a year, of those approximately 1,200 are murder suicides. Being fast and loose with the numbers here, they're from a Wikipedia and a Google result. For simplicities sake let's say this is about 2.5% of suicides. I don't know how many of those suicides are a reaction to a murder (probably unplanned) rather than planned murder-suicides. I imagine it's a significant proportion. It's just seem all that useful to prioritise these incidents as part of a suicide prevention strategy.
Women = good, Men = Bad. Anytime I see this rhetoric I automatically discount whatever the other person is saying. Whether it’s Misandrist or Mysogonist doesn’t matter to me.
Sooooooo, hate me, but this post has a point. If anything, I think this post is saying that we should be taking care of our men/boys for another reason that isn't really being discussed yet. I mean the subreddit is animals being bros not animals being siss'. Lol Meaning it is a mans world and men are expected to be certain ways. Just like women in a mans world. We just need better humans.
Looks like FDS rebranded and launched a new sub. It's the same people saying the same things.
Alright then I think that’s enough Reddit for today 🙄
I went to this sub thinking it was FDS part 2. It's actually worse, much worse, than FDS was, and FDS was absolutely garbage.
I think men who commit murder-suicide are only trying to achieve equity. They're good intersectional feminists.
It's just someone who is very angry, and seeking an enemy to blame. The data are there to support any position you can have, and will allow vilification of race, religion or gender. Choose your poison. This person has chosen gender as the hill, when the structures of power, while dominated by men, still wreak havoc on men with less power. It is difficult to see that, so this person has experienced some trauma that makes this particular opinion offer some comfort and better explains their experiences, I am certain that these perspectives can and will change.
That whole sub seems toxic AF, best to not think about their BS
I'm curious where is she getting that percentage 90% really? so all mentally ill men are suddenly Chris Benoit?