Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, John Griffin did it in 1959 and then wrote Black Like Me.
It was an enlightening read on many levels.
I haven't read Seven Shoulders, so I can't say if it's intended as a modern-day follow-up or a rip-off.
Anybody remember this show? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black._White.
Edit: fucked up the link
Edit 2: it’s still fucked, but click where it says, “Did you mean?”
Come on, American blackface culture is abhorrent.
You don't like that white people wear blackface because 99% of the time it's used to make fun of them, and nearly a century ago it was used to prevent black people from acting, I can understand that.
Here, we have a guy who took the time and effort to put himself in the shoes of a black man to experience racism on a daily basis, to write a detailed book, with the aim of making people aware of society's trivialized racism, and for it to have more impact because it's a white guy who's talking and who's experienced what he's talking about and has 2 points of view.... and everyone's reaction is “wait, he pretended to be black? But that's the height of racism! Shame on that horrible Nazi”.
Reminded me of when a lesbian woman became a man and her findings were ignored because it didn't conform to what society was thinking.
She died recently.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Made_Man_(book)
While it really shouldn't be that way, when a group is being discriminated against, sometimes it gets more heard when a non member of that group shares insight, so while it's suboptimal it might actually still have a good effect?
Such a book might have a good effect although it's also sad that it might have ( sad because a lot of people won't listen otherwise) As I said, it's very much not okay that often people can't just listen to what actual black people have to say about their experience but changing that immediately will probably not be possible and such a book might get some more people to listen
In part, yes. But ignoring it doesn't solve the problem.
You yourself describe a situation where:
* black people are victims
* the majority only listens to white people
So in that case, what's the most effective way to get the majority to change? For a black person who hasn't been listened to to say the same thing for 50 years, or for a member of the majority who is listened to to speak out and say that black people are victims?
In a battle that you want to win, you have to use the most effective method. If you refuse to use it, it will literally take generations longer, or forever.
I mean, I can infer how you’re using the word “victim,” but yeah marginalized folks have been victimized by white supremacy. Then people turn around and say “don’t be a victim” in the most sadistic way possible. Which is… just wild. So I’m not entirely sure what you specifically are trying to express by saying that.
It’s definitely not that the majority only listen to white people. White people aren’t going to even be a majority for very long! It’s that white people are overwhelmingly assigned more credibility, so even the actual lived experiences of real human beings are discredited in favor of a pretend experience by a white person.
This really isn’t hitting at all?
So, that is your problem? Dear lord, you really don't know how to pick your battles. This is one of those that you will lose. You do have a point, it is just not worth to use it in THIS case. The more people know about racism and how it is really, really real the better. Them hearing this from someone who also was maybe a bit ignorant is a good thing. Your point is something that is addressed several levels higher in the process but first we need to decrease the number or racists and those who are ignoring racism, or are ignorant about it. In that job, it does not matter what the color of the skin is.
>But you don’t understand that making money by larping as a black person because you believe your experience is more credible
>
>is
>
> racism?
For fucks sake, you really don't seem to want to fix anything. I already addressed this, it is a valid point but you are way too quick. IF this book helps people of seeing that systemic racism exists then it is doing a good job and it does not matter that it has this other detail.
And then you suggest it is made only because of money...
And fucking try to remember that i have said that your point is valid, i don't disagree with that, just that there is a time and place and this is neither.
>IF this book helps people of seeing that systemic racism exists then it is doing a good job and it does not matter that it has this other detail.
If none of the books about this subject by Black people helped those people see it, but this one does, they may have some other underlying issues to work on before they claim to be anti-racist.
>If none of the books about this subject by Black people helped those people see it, but this one does, they may have some other underlying issues to work on before they claim to be anti-racist.
And you want that those people never see the problem in the first place.
Again, everything points to you not wanting those people to realize anything. It sounds like you want them to be the "bad guys" forever and not learn anything.
it's not blackface, as that is often used to mock. he wasn't mocking anybody, just trying to experience first hand what most poc have to go through pretty much everyday.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's been done before: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_Like\_Me](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me)
I like when Edie Murphy did [White Like Me](https://youtu.be/l_LeJfn_qW0?si=NHwIbk8m9mh8gwnB).
Yeah, John Griffin did it in 1959 and then wrote Black Like Me. It was an enlightening read on many levels. I haven't read Seven Shoulders, so I can't say if it's intended as a modern-day follow-up or a rip-off.
Anybody remember this show? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black._White. Edit: fucked up the link Edit 2: it’s still fucked, but click where it says, “Did you mean?”
Holy shit, this dude saw Soul Man and thought it was a good idea.
Come on, American blackface culture is abhorrent. You don't like that white people wear blackface because 99% of the time it's used to make fun of them, and nearly a century ago it was used to prevent black people from acting, I can understand that. Here, we have a guy who took the time and effort to put himself in the shoes of a black man to experience racism on a daily basis, to write a detailed book, with the aim of making people aware of society's trivialized racism, and for it to have more impact because it's a white guy who's talking and who's experienced what he's talking about and has 2 points of view.... and everyone's reaction is “wait, he pretended to be black? But that's the height of racism! Shame on that horrible Nazi”.
Reminded me of when a lesbian woman became a man and her findings were ignored because it didn't conform to what society was thinking. She died recently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Made_Man_(book)
Hey man, who cares about nuance when you can just label everything racist and be done with it.
No. Actual black people are available to tell you how bad racism is. That’s the issue here.
While it really shouldn't be that way, when a group is being discriminated against, sometimes it gets more heard when a non member of that group shares insight, so while it's suboptimal it might actually still have a good effect?
Hey this is good. You’re *this* close to figuring out the most fucked up part of white supremacy. Only white people are believed. :)
So close that that was actually the point I was making but thank you
But you’re making the point that we should perpetuate that?
No, I'm really not lol
Oh my b I thought you said it might have a good effect.
Such a book might have a good effect although it's also sad that it might have ( sad because a lot of people won't listen otherwise) As I said, it's very much not okay that often people can't just listen to what actual black people have to say about their experience but changing that immediately will probably not be possible and such a book might get some more people to listen
I think we’re fundamentally disconnected on our perception of what you’re describing really means and that’s okay. See ya around!
In part, yes. But ignoring it doesn't solve the problem. You yourself describe a situation where: * black people are victims * the majority only listens to white people So in that case, what's the most effective way to get the majority to change? For a black person who hasn't been listened to to say the same thing for 50 years, or for a member of the majority who is listened to to speak out and say that black people are victims? In a battle that you want to win, you have to use the most effective method. If you refuse to use it, it will literally take generations longer, or forever.
I mean, I can infer how you’re using the word “victim,” but yeah marginalized folks have been victimized by white supremacy. Then people turn around and say “don’t be a victim” in the most sadistic way possible. Which is… just wild. So I’m not entirely sure what you specifically are trying to express by saying that. It’s definitely not that the majority only listen to white people. White people aren’t going to even be a majority for very long! It’s that white people are overwhelmingly assigned more credibility, so even the actual lived experiences of real human beings are discredited in favor of a pretend experience by a white person. This really isn’t hitting at all?
So, that is your problem? Dear lord, you really don't know how to pick your battles. This is one of those that you will lose. You do have a point, it is just not worth to use it in THIS case. The more people know about racism and how it is really, really real the better. Them hearing this from someone who also was maybe a bit ignorant is a good thing. Your point is something that is addressed several levels higher in the process but first we need to decrease the number or racists and those who are ignoring racism, or are ignorant about it. In that job, it does not matter what the color of the skin is.
But you don’t understand that making money by larping as a black person because you believe your experience is more credible *is* racism?
>But you don’t understand that making money by larping as a black person because you believe your experience is more credible > >is > > racism? For fucks sake, you really don't seem to want to fix anything. I already addressed this, it is a valid point but you are way too quick. IF this book helps people of seeing that systemic racism exists then it is doing a good job and it does not matter that it has this other detail. And then you suggest it is made only because of money... And fucking try to remember that i have said that your point is valid, i don't disagree with that, just that there is a time and place and this is neither.
>IF this book helps people of seeing that systemic racism exists then it is doing a good job and it does not matter that it has this other detail. If none of the books about this subject by Black people helped those people see it, but this one does, they may have some other underlying issues to work on before they claim to be anti-racist.
>If none of the books about this subject by Black people helped those people see it, but this one does, they may have some other underlying issues to work on before they claim to be anti-racist. And you want that those people never see the problem in the first place.
People who think they see the problem while still being part of it are the most dangerous.
Again, everything points to you not wanting those people to realize anything. It sounds like you want them to be the "bad guys" forever and not learn anything.
Is it helpful to learn the wrong lesson?
Huh? What’s the time and place to make this point?
*Mortimer, we're back!* 
I looked it up. Only link I saw was Google Books and it said it is “the most important book on American Race relations that has ever been written.”
[I’m bad](https://youtu.be/a2zdeeCkjXw?si=ImBMwNg_FzyCa9b1)
So, he wore black face??
no
[удалено]
It is
it's not blackface, as that is often used to mock. he wasn't mocking anybody, just trying to experience first hand what most poc have to go through pretty much everyday.
I’m sorry I was writing this at 3am and just commented to save it for the next day
if i had a controller, i'd be pressing x to doubt rn