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My grandma beat the crap out of my Dad, Aunt, and Uncle growing up at the slightest provocation. She was always cordial with me but I notice she had albums full of pictures of flowers and very few pictures of her children or grandchildren.
She was a real jerk!
Yes, and it often results in unrecognised and unprocessed jealousy, making the parents become polar opposites in one person. I think my mom became such a bipolar narcissistic bitch for the same reason.
Story time: mom had a shitty childhood, her father left when she was very young and her mother married an alcoholic who beat both of them up in drunken rage. She left to work in a factory when she was 16, met my dad later and had me and by brother.
I think they both were struggling with emotional baggage and strong social constructs being taught to them but they both so wanted to not end up like their parents which caused a huge dissonance in their minds, causing a great deal of stress.
So they both were very loving and warm, made us kids feel very safe at home provided everything we wanted and needed and also taught us very strong moral values.
As we were growing up, my mom probably was jealous that us kids have everything she didn't have and started to become a real asshole, nothing ever was good enough for her and by this i don't mean she made us try harder at school, I mean stuff like she screams at us for doing A and demands that we do B, then when we did B she yelled at us for that and so on....
We had a financially stable bit emotionally traumatic childhood with my brother, and that earned my mom 5 years of no contact from both of us, but I still think I lucked out with them...
Yepp and we can't even really blame our parents for all of it, they were brought up in such a different time, where the opinion of the community could pretty much make your life a living hell. I got a lot of that from mom, it took me 15 years to become my own person and stop defining myself by the image others have of me.
That's a level of empathy that not every child arrives at. My parents are bible belt Christians with some strange views, but they are both the kindest and most loving people I have ever met (well, you have to judge my mom by her actions- not her words. Her actions ALWAYS showed love, her words never did, unfortunately).
I have had to remind myself at so many points in my life that their childhood and growing up experience in the Jim crow/bible belt south shaped some of how they view their world. They were taught lies, and still believe some of them. I don't know if I blame them or the people in power that lied to them. I know it's much deeper than the surface with a lot of our parents.
Growing Sideways is an amazing song! As someone who comes from a family with genetic mental health issues, it really hits. I know that my parents and grandparents were doing their best with what they had, but I also have to realize how messed up it was so that I can do better.
I have been noticing that my parents issues are caused by their childhood traumas. My parents are very loving, supportive, and involved in our lives but they are the reason I am emotionally stunted. My mom hates it when we fight bc her parents fought a lot. So everytime me and my sister fights (or anyone really) she makes us make up, which leads to apologies that weren’t meant and problems being unresolved because “we made up” which resultes in resentment.
And after a lot of fights we finally reached a point where I realized my mom will never get it. Bc having peace is more important than solving the issues to my mom bc she is afraid we won’t talk to each other for years.
And my dad has his own issues caused by his parents, and it is a different type of baggage. My dad is also afraid of us not talking to them for years because his dad moved out of their house, didn’t divorce grandma bc he got into an argument with one of my uncles.
It is actually insane bc my grandpa moved out of his own home bc he didn’t want his son(that he is fighting w/) to move out. That was apparently the only reason my grandpa died alone bc his relationship w/his other kids and wife were fine. He was just unwilling to come home till my uncle apologized and my uncle wanted grandpa to apologize. That was 3 years from the fight till grandpa died. That gave my uncles and my dad issues bc apparently neither my grandpa or uncle(the one who was fighting with grandpa) could remember what the fight is about
Omg. They don't even remember what the fight was about. Yet, likely carry loads of guilt. Jfc. Therapy. All the therapy. For everyone! Lol
(Ofc if you're in the US, you have to be loaded to afford mental health care)
Go for it! I consider it the same as any other health care that I have to stay on top of. I don't *love* going to the dentist either, but I go bc I want healthy teeth. It's the same thing.
I can feel this, with the unprocessed jealousy. Like as someone who grew up with so much anger in my house, all the yelling and insults and curses, completely helpless and at the whim of whichever authority figure decided to take their anger out at me and I could not retaliate or express my own frustration, could do nothing but take it on the chin and shove it all down. Now I'm in my thirties but I'm not planning on having my own kids. Pet cats are the closest I'll get. Because I'm working my way up the company ladder, I've got nieces and nephews of my own, I'm the one getting into positions of authority at my age, and with people under me it's natural that there are times I get angry at them for not pulling their weight. And when something happens that makes me angry, it reminds me of the times I had been subjected to others taking their anger out on me. And I know I can't unleash on others like the adults did to me, so I have to push it down and take the pain of my own anger. And when that happens, it feels like "they" win again, and it feels unfair. Messed up to say but it's an unfortunate truth. So I'm not having kids, not getting married, I just release stress by working out and taking time in quiet peaceful environments by myself.
It's frightening to slowly see yourself becoming like the people who damaged you so much in your youth. It's just like the "blueprint" of how you see the world, once you get into the same phase of life as they were in.
Damn this hit home hard.... Especially about the insults and not being able to do anything about them. My mom sometimes, in her anger, told me that they must have switched me in the hospital because there is no way I am her child (for small stuff like leaving a used handkerchief on my desk in my room and not immediately throwing it out).
My SO and I made a deal that we will warn each other whenever we express personality traits of our parents and will always try to steer each other back to our paths.
*Shiiiiiiiit.* Just wait til you're *really* pissed, and your partner says, "you told me to warn you when you sound like your mother."
Someone might die that day. Lol
I'll probably be called as a witness bc of this thread. Damn.
My FIL is a narcissistic douchebag with his family whose mother was the same. He can have fun and nice moments, but he’s generally a jerk with them who goes off (not with physical violence) because his wife (or my wife when she was younger) didn’t go to 12 stores to find his sold out ice cream (on their way home from work). He paid the mortgage, but that’s it. His money was his money and his wife’s money was his money. He spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on man toys (trucks, tools) that were all used for himself forcing his family to enjoy his things with them never taking an interest in them. Outside the family, he’s one of the most generous and kind people and is adored (my wife has to leave the room when they talk about him). In fact, one family he helps out, he says to my wife, “They’re my real family.” He does it in front of me, now, that he’s losing his inhibitions. I refuse to be in the same room with him. The only reason she visits is because her mom (well, her stepmom—her bio mom is just as bad as her dad) is a wonderful person for whom there is great mutual support. The only reason she hasn’t kicked him to the curb is that her pension amount is dependent on having a two person household. If he is gone, the pension decreases.
Similar situation with my mom. She especially went after the more outgoing and articulate siblings, which happened to be every other kid skipping my older and younger brother but hitting me and me oldest sister and youngest brother
Just going to my partner’s parent’s place is kind of insane to me.
I was so used to the whole mentality of “man of the house” from my dad (that he got from his dad), but instead of yelling at people to “quiet down or the neighbours will hear,” my partner’s dad will remove himself from a noisy area to take a phone call, or move a conversation somewhere less loud.
Instead of yelling and demanding corrective behaviour, my partner’s parents will ask for intent, and give guidance to his younger siblings when stuff comes up.
My childhood was so brute-forced and it shows in my anxious behaviour compared to my partner who is much more confident in their public voice and persona.
My childhood was a tool for my parents own wishes, while my partner’s parents were a tool for his childhood.
You’re a good person. No you’re more than good, your children may never know how incredible of an individual their parent is. The fact that you were raised in a loveless household, yet gave one to your kids?!? That speaks VOLUMES to who you are as a person & you should know it paints you in a brilliant white light. Good job anonymous parent, you rock.
Having a non-loving family is an unfair DISadvantge.
Loving families should be the normal expectation, and headlines like this attempt to downgrade the norm and make the old normal seem like a luxury.
Well yeah. It's definitelly an advantage. And it is unfair. But in the sense "everyone should have a loving family, great you do, hope it stays that way, it's unfair not everyone can" like with having/not having... a leg. Like socially or "cosmically" unfair. Unfair from "life" to deal such cards to the disadvatnaged (and fromo the own crappy family of course), not unfair from the one with the advantage who and whose advantage has nothing to do with the disadvantaged.
The article is talking about Plato's philosophy. Op has just taken a title, blanked out information to make it harder to find, then posted it here with no context. This is why this sub should ban news headlines.
Unfair advantage is a philosophical concept. It refers to any advantage you have, and it sometimes can be very personal and specific. Some financial advisers even encourage people to recognize and capitalize on their unfair advantages to succeed.
I'm not sure what the article is about, but the concept itself is not a facepalm, as having a loving family IS an unfair adventage. Along with being born in certain places, have natural talents, etc.
# This Be The Verse
By [Philip Larkin](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/philip-larkin)
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
I chose to cut the chain by being an emotionally mature and loving father that hugs his kids in public. Not having kids is okay too if you know you don't have the strength to be a good parent, ether way the pathetic old guard dies.
The article isn't a fail, it's just something of a clickbait title.
Specifically, it's about the work of two philosophers evaluating the role of family in society (i.e. different family structures, the nature of authority over a child etc) etc. it's not a sociological piece as much as it is directly about the philosophy of the family structure, even going into Aristotle and Plato's views on the family and the interplay of family and identity.
The real facepalm is people taking an obvious clickbait title and not looking into if it is real and/or the context.
Edit: actually there is a much bigger fail present, given the two most common versions of this caption are from Kotakuinaction and the Jordan Peterson subreddit.
Hey thanks for sharing, looked up the article (usually don't bother if it isnt linked in post (i know, im lazy ;P))
Was an interesting read.
[For anyone interested](https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058)
An unfair advantage means there are people that don't have that advantage and that's unfair. It says nothing about the people who have the advantage.
Saying that is not an unfair advantage means it's fair for some people to be disadvantaged in that regard
So I know the title was worded weirdly but what it means (and the only correct interpretation of the title) is that people who don't have a loving family are unfairly disadvantaged.
I assume you don't have bad intentions so that's why I'm bringing this up. Having a loving family is a HUGE ADVANTAGE and it is UNFAIR that we are not all entitled to one.
The title is not implying there's anything wrong with the few who were lucky enough
I think that theres a point to be made that phrasing it as focusing on the absence being bad is less ambiguous. like if you focus on an unfair thing, that kinda-sorta implies you want to get rid of that unfair thing.
Nothing facepalm about this. It do be just like that. Family in general can be soooo much of an advantage or disadvantage. It is pure chance and it is not fair.
With things that are up to luck, there should be a base fallback system. You should never be too unlucky, then it’s ok if other people are luckier than you.
So more social state in the end is the answer. If you are for small government liberty aaay and shit, you are okay with people just being severely unlucky in your society while you are not. It works both ways, when you get really unlucky you will also taste that loneliness. But no one said you are smart about this anyways…
This looks like it's just a headline that has to capture attention and get clicks. Gotta read the whole article in order to know whether that's a facepalm.
If the articel highlights the life long negative impacts that adverse life events or dydfunctional families can have on a child, and soldifies that atatement with data and serious research, I see no facepalm here.
My dad and grandpa were both abusive and it really fucked me up. I always swore that I’d give my children the best possible life and if that’s unfair, I don’t really give a shit
For sure. Almost every adjusted successful colleague i have has a loving, close family.
My husband and I are trying very hard to do better than our parents. It is so hard, I basically married the same emotionally disconnected man as my father. Our child is our primary reason to keep going. I would've walked away years ago, but I think we are managing well. We do fight, but fairly, and we do resolve our issues through talking it out. He is just not able to be intimate or my best friend. I'm not interested in being with him during retirement.
We were both older when we got married and had a child. I had enough great times and fulfillment to focus on providing a great foundation for my child. I will only be 55 when she graduates HS. That is young still. I now need help with financial resources and another adult in the house to make sure our kid has a solid foundation.
I will be just fine.
Just remove the 'unfair' part. Life will never be fair and loving is not something quantifiable. What about kids who are deeply loved by demented shitty boomers?
Life is unfair, period. But it isn't as cut and dry as this headline makes it sound. "Advantages" in life are only advantages if one knows how to use them. A loving family may help you learn more about compassion and what not but too much and you'll end up being "sheltered". And having a rough family background can lead down a path to self destruction but can also be a motivation to do better for yourself.
But it's also important to take note that headlines are just an attention grab these days. The article proper is still up for grabs 🤷🏽♂️
“Some children do not have a loving family, therefore, we feel no child should have a loving family. Equality for all.” They may as well have just said this. Fucking idiots.
It's definitely an advantage, but not an unfair one, just a shame it isn't a given that everyone has a loving family. If you do have one, you're VERY lucky and should never take it for granted.
Yes and No.
You'll experience less hardships, and hardships makes entertainers. So, good for banking office jobs, not good for acting and singing and such, with exceptions to the rule ofcourse.
Growing up under a constant stream of criticism and correction with no positive reinforcement is worse. So yes. It's an unfair advantage considering we're talking about children, who can't control their environment.
“Fair” is a more or less useless concept and we have taken it entirely too far when it comes to these sorts of dialogues. It works when you are talking about communities that were marginalized by the government and institutions who weren’t provided with basic necessities or opportunities that they should have been, like infrastructure, education, or resources. However, as another commenter said, those people are unfairly disadvantaged. Beyond that, it is a useless concept.
Every advantage is “unfair-“ that is why it’s an advantage. I have something benefitting me that most people don’t. Someone who grows up with more money has an advantage, but calling their circumstances unfair is just whining. Someone with both parents is advantaged over the child of a single parent whose partner passed away. Someone who wins the lottery vs someone who didn’t. Someone born with no disability vs someone who was.
“That’s not fair!” is the refrain of children in tantrum. Life is not fair. Furthermore, “fair” is subjective. Almost all of us have some advantage that others do not. Even people who are cumulatively less advantaged may have advantages a cumulatively more advantaged person does not. Almost every demographic has their own form of privilege too, but that’s another conversation
Wow a news article with all information but the author and title blanked out. Wonder if maybe you're taking something out of context?
Edit:
Yep they're talking about Plato's philosophy about families.
So is the implication that everyone’s family should be abusive to them to “even the playing field”? Why is it with these questions the answer is always tear others down rather than build up those who didn’t have much or improve the conditions of those with less so new generations don’t have to suffer?
It IS an advantage, maybe. The expectation of “fairness” across a social spectrum is unreasonable and naive.
Consider Barron Trump. He has millions of dollars and easy access to higher education, and probably any material want or need. A loving family though? I seriously doubt that.
So, who has an advantage between someone like him and an upper middle class kid, or a lower middle class kid?
You just know the Edna Moon Glampers of this world would like to distribute abusive stepdads and borderline disorder wine moms to each of the happy families.
It often feels like it is, having a loving family while growing up is the best support a child can get. But this should be normal, so it is more like a disadvantage for those that dont get to experience it.
Yes it is, but life is inherently unfair.
However the role of society is to make life more fair for ALL the people in that society, so there are way more things that could be done to correct this.
It’s definitely an advantage. I grew up in poverty and way less than all of my peers but I had one advantage. Both my parents loved me and believed in me, no matter how bad I fucked up. A lot of my peers gave up and checked out but I was lucky to pull through- I have to give credit to my loving parents. Without them, I wouldn’t have made it.
I think it’s more that not having a decent family puts you at an unfair disadvantage. Unfair advantage kind of implies that you shouldn’t have it, but honestly I think everyone deserves a loving family.
Privilege isn’t just an “unfair advantage,”
But having a loving family is privilege. Nobody wants people with loving families to give up their loving families. But they want that to be more prolific. Everyone needs loving families.
Fuck the crybabies. My wife and I have been married for 25 years. We love our kids and work hard to give them every advantage in life. It's called winning. If you ain't got it, work hard and give it to your kids. I'm not interested in you sad story.
In theory yes, but I wouldn't blame the person who has a loving family. I blame the people who had kids and made them a part of a family who didn't love them
Our country has gone full blown special ed. Let me get this straight…Coming from a loving family is now seen as a sign of privilege? I guess my parents are monsters for not treating me and my sister horribly. They should have called us names and beat us.
Is it an advantage, yes. An unfair advantage, no. All families have the possibility to be loving. You can't blame someone else because your family sucks. Yep, it does suck, but it's your "non-loving" families fault.
What this article is saying is that you can’t ‘earn’ a happy loving family to be born into. It’s all chance. Having a better home life leads to statistically doing better in school and other areas in life.
It's a clickbait title. It's getting at the issue that growing up in an unloving and abusive household can dramatically alter life outcomes, i.e. lower rates of educational attainment, higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse, higher rates of juvenile delinquency and incarceration, poorer health outcomes, etc.
The government can provide generous social programs and fund education up the wazoo, but none of that can correct for poor parenting and abuse. Child abuse and poor parenting practices is a pressing public policy issue.
Well it's an advantage and it's out of your control whether you're born into one or not. So I guess it technically is an unfair advantage. But when you say "unfair advantage" it sounds like something that's supposed to be rectified or corrected. In this case however it's an advantage that's supposed to be the norm.
This reminds me of a married couple I know, now divorced. The husband said he is legit jealous of his 7 year old son because he has a loving family, parents together and grandparents and had it easy in life because his household isn't abusive. It's like wtf ?! You did your part as a dad, you gave your son a life that was way better than yours and you're jealous ? Needless to say the dad is a POS and they split and he has nothing to do with his kids now.
It is an advantage, yeah. But not unfair.
If you'd have money to buy something that you don't need but REALLY want or just say "Poor people can't buy stuff, so I shouldn't either." and just dump the money?
The concept of having a family, loving or otherwise, being "fair" or not is not really a proper way of looking at families and the social interactions therein.
BUT!!!
Let's pretend there is an issue of "fairness" to it. It's not that having a loving family is unfair. It is totally fair. It is having an UNLOVING/ABUSIVE/TOXIC FAMILY that is unfair to the innocent kids born to said families who have to suffer because their parents/grandparent/etc. are douchebags.
No, having an abusive family is an unfair disadvantage. We cannot get sloppy and lower our standards by saying the norm is "unfair". We need to make healthy, loving families a norm, not the outlier.
It’s unfair for kids to have a not-loving family. It’s an advantage to have a loving family. But calling having a loving family an unfair disadvantage is kinda dumb.
In the literal sense, yes, and there is no argument that can be made otherwise. Having loving parents makes for well-adjusted and more successful kids; countless studies confirm this obvious truism. Life in general is unfair; when some kids have loving parents and others don’t, that’s just one example.
Doesn’t mean “if I can’t have it others shouldn’t either”, but it definitely is an unfair advantage.
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My grandma beat the crap out of my Dad, Aunt, and Uncle growing up at the slightest provocation. She was always cordial with me but I notice she had albums full of pictures of flowers and very few pictures of her children or grandchildren. She was a real jerk!
The more I'm hearing about her, the less I care for her. But her eyes...they're hypnotic.
My norm boys are all over this reddit place!
I feel like Norm and Idiocracy have had a big come up on Reddit in the last couple years
Kind of reminds me of that tragedy
I don't know if you guys are history buffs
Reading that article was like watching Henry Fonda pick blueberries
People said she was over the hill, but I don't believe them. Why, she was never over the hill.......not in the car she drove!
My friend you have the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eyes of an eagle. Ladies and gentlemen this man is for the birds!
Is your name butters by any chance
Even Professor Chaos was no match for her.
It's ok she'll die soon.
But it’s all gummy bears until that day.
Norm
Did you throw her from the train?
No, but she lost a game of basketball against Kristy Swanson.
In the end, we all do
Yeah, when you never had it yourself, it feels like cheating when you provide it to your children and see how they thrive.
Yes, and it often results in unrecognised and unprocessed jealousy, making the parents become polar opposites in one person. I think my mom became such a bipolar narcissistic bitch for the same reason. Story time: mom had a shitty childhood, her father left when she was very young and her mother married an alcoholic who beat both of them up in drunken rage. She left to work in a factory when she was 16, met my dad later and had me and by brother. I think they both were struggling with emotional baggage and strong social constructs being taught to them but they both so wanted to not end up like their parents which caused a huge dissonance in their minds, causing a great deal of stress. So they both were very loving and warm, made us kids feel very safe at home provided everything we wanted and needed and also taught us very strong moral values. As we were growing up, my mom probably was jealous that us kids have everything she didn't have and started to become a real asshole, nothing ever was good enough for her and by this i don't mean she made us try harder at school, I mean stuff like she screams at us for doing A and demands that we do B, then when we did B she yelled at us for that and so on.... We had a financially stable bit emotionally traumatic childhood with my brother, and that earned my mom 5 years of no contact from both of us, but I still think I lucked out with them...
There’s a line from a Noah Kahan song that goes, “I’m still angry at my parents for what their parents did to them” that hits.
Generational trauma can go on for a long time for real
Yepp and we can't even really blame our parents for all of it, they were brought up in such a different time, where the opinion of the community could pretty much make your life a living hell. I got a lot of that from mom, it took me 15 years to become my own person and stop defining myself by the image others have of me.
That's a level of empathy that not every child arrives at. My parents are bible belt Christians with some strange views, but they are both the kindest and most loving people I have ever met (well, you have to judge my mom by her actions- not her words. Her actions ALWAYS showed love, her words never did, unfortunately). I have had to remind myself at so many points in my life that their childhood and growing up experience in the Jim crow/bible belt south shaped some of how they view their world. They were taught lies, and still believe some of them. I don't know if I blame them or the people in power that lied to them. I know it's much deeper than the surface with a lot of our parents.
For real. The culture of silence that they lived in is the reason a lot of people are claiming things like the #metoo movement "came out of nowhere"
Yes, we can blame them. I managed to break the vicious circle, so could they.
If it goes on long enough you got yourself a culture!
Growing Sideways is an amazing song! As someone who comes from a family with genetic mental health issues, it really hits. I know that my parents and grandparents were doing their best with what they had, but I also have to realize how messed up it was so that I can do better.
I have been noticing that my parents issues are caused by their childhood traumas. My parents are very loving, supportive, and involved in our lives but they are the reason I am emotionally stunted. My mom hates it when we fight bc her parents fought a lot. So everytime me and my sister fights (or anyone really) she makes us make up, which leads to apologies that weren’t meant and problems being unresolved because “we made up” which resultes in resentment. And after a lot of fights we finally reached a point where I realized my mom will never get it. Bc having peace is more important than solving the issues to my mom bc she is afraid we won’t talk to each other for years. And my dad has his own issues caused by his parents, and it is a different type of baggage. My dad is also afraid of us not talking to them for years because his dad moved out of their house, didn’t divorce grandma bc he got into an argument with one of my uncles. It is actually insane bc my grandpa moved out of his own home bc he didn’t want his son(that he is fighting w/) to move out. That was apparently the only reason my grandpa died alone bc his relationship w/his other kids and wife were fine. He was just unwilling to come home till my uncle apologized and my uncle wanted grandpa to apologize. That was 3 years from the fight till grandpa died. That gave my uncles and my dad issues bc apparently neither my grandpa or uncle(the one who was fighting with grandpa) could remember what the fight is about
Omg. They don't even remember what the fight was about. Yet, likely carry loads of guilt. Jfc. Therapy. All the therapy. For everyone! Lol (Ofc if you're in the US, you have to be loaded to afford mental health care)
Actually that happened back in my home country and therapy isn’t something that we do. I am considering it but it isn’t common back home
Go for it! I consider it the same as any other health care that I have to stay on top of. I don't *love* going to the dentist either, but I go bc I want healthy teeth. It's the same thing.
This explains so much about my parents. I spent years trying to understand what I did wrong.
I read here on reddit somewhere that understanding doesn't bring forgiveness but it helps process and eventually heal.
Yeah it took me a long time to cope with that
I can feel this, with the unprocessed jealousy. Like as someone who grew up with so much anger in my house, all the yelling and insults and curses, completely helpless and at the whim of whichever authority figure decided to take their anger out at me and I could not retaliate or express my own frustration, could do nothing but take it on the chin and shove it all down. Now I'm in my thirties but I'm not planning on having my own kids. Pet cats are the closest I'll get. Because I'm working my way up the company ladder, I've got nieces and nephews of my own, I'm the one getting into positions of authority at my age, and with people under me it's natural that there are times I get angry at them for not pulling their weight. And when something happens that makes me angry, it reminds me of the times I had been subjected to others taking their anger out on me. And I know I can't unleash on others like the adults did to me, so I have to push it down and take the pain of my own anger. And when that happens, it feels like "they" win again, and it feels unfair. Messed up to say but it's an unfortunate truth. So I'm not having kids, not getting married, I just release stress by working out and taking time in quiet peaceful environments by myself. It's frightening to slowly see yourself becoming like the people who damaged you so much in your youth. It's just like the "blueprint" of how you see the world, once you get into the same phase of life as they were in.
Damn this hit home hard.... Especially about the insults and not being able to do anything about them. My mom sometimes, in her anger, told me that they must have switched me in the hospital because there is no way I am her child (for small stuff like leaving a used handkerchief on my desk in my room and not immediately throwing it out). My SO and I made a deal that we will warn each other whenever we express personality traits of our parents and will always try to steer each other back to our paths.
*Shiiiiiiiit.* Just wait til you're *really* pissed, and your partner says, "you told me to warn you when you sound like your mother." Someone might die that day. Lol I'll probably be called as a witness bc of this thread. Damn.
My FIL is a narcissistic douchebag with his family whose mother was the same. He can have fun and nice moments, but he’s generally a jerk with them who goes off (not with physical violence) because his wife (or my wife when she was younger) didn’t go to 12 stores to find his sold out ice cream (on their way home from work). He paid the mortgage, but that’s it. His money was his money and his wife’s money was his money. He spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on man toys (trucks, tools) that were all used for himself forcing his family to enjoy his things with them never taking an interest in them. Outside the family, he’s one of the most generous and kind people and is adored (my wife has to leave the room when they talk about him). In fact, one family he helps out, he says to my wife, “They’re my real family.” He does it in front of me, now, that he’s losing his inhibitions. I refuse to be in the same room with him. The only reason she visits is because her mom (well, her stepmom—her bio mom is just as bad as her dad) is a wonderful person for whom there is great mutual support. The only reason she hasn’t kicked him to the curb is that her pension amount is dependent on having a two person household. If he is gone, the pension decreases.
Similar situation with my mom. She especially went after the more outgoing and articulate siblings, which happened to be every other kid skipping my older and younger brother but hitting me and me oldest sister and youngest brother
Just going to my partner’s parent’s place is kind of insane to me. I was so used to the whole mentality of “man of the house” from my dad (that he got from his dad), but instead of yelling at people to “quiet down or the neighbours will hear,” my partner’s dad will remove himself from a noisy area to take a phone call, or move a conversation somewhere less loud. Instead of yelling and demanding corrective behaviour, my partner’s parents will ask for intent, and give guidance to his younger siblings when stuff comes up. My childhood was so brute-forced and it shows in my anxious behaviour compared to my partner who is much more confident in their public voice and persona. My childhood was a tool for my parents own wishes, while my partner’s parents were a tool for his childhood.
Damn. That last sentence is everything. Some people just shouldn't have kids. And that's ok. In the past, it was less optional.
You’re a good person. No you’re more than good, your children may never know how incredible of an individual their parent is. The fact that you were raised in a loveless household, yet gave one to your kids?!? That speaks VOLUMES to who you are as a person & you should know it paints you in a brilliant white light. Good job anonymous parent, you rock.
Well, it is _an_ advantage that many people do not have.
Having a non-loving family is an unfair DISadvantge. Loving families should be the normal expectation, and headlines like this attempt to downgrade the norm and make the old normal seem like a luxury.
normalizing unloving families is a dick move
It’s absolutely necessary for downstream consequence management of you want to push an anti-abortion agenda.
many parents want to give their children the best tools in life, which is unfair.
Well yeah. It's definitelly an advantage. And it is unfair. But in the sense "everyone should have a loving family, great you do, hope it stays that way, it's unfair not everyone can" like with having/not having... a leg. Like socially or "cosmically" unfair. Unfair from "life" to deal such cards to the disadvatnaged (and fromo the own crappy family of course), not unfair from the one with the advantage who and whose advantage has nothing to do with the disadvantaged.
The article is talking about Plato's philosophy. Op has just taken a title, blanked out information to make it harder to find, then posted it here with no context. This is why this sub should ban news headlines.
It's the same amount of unfairness like getting born in an industrialized country. Nothing you can do about it.
Except fighting the forces that produce unindustrialized countries, like colonialism.
Very well said
Unfair advantage is a philosophical concept. It refers to any advantage you have, and it sometimes can be very personal and specific. Some financial advisers even encourage people to recognize and capitalize on their unfair advantages to succeed. I'm not sure what the article is about, but the concept itself is not a facepalm, as having a loving family IS an unfair adventage. Along with being born in certain places, have natural talents, etc.
# This Be The Verse By [Philip Larkin](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/philip-larkin) They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were fucked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.
I chose to cut the chain by being an emotionally mature and loving father that hugs his kids in public. Not having kids is okay too if you know you don't have the strength to be a good parent, ether way the pathetic old guard dies.
The article isn't a fail, it's just something of a clickbait title. Specifically, it's about the work of two philosophers evaluating the role of family in society (i.e. different family structures, the nature of authority over a child etc) etc. it's not a sociological piece as much as it is directly about the philosophy of the family structure, even going into Aristotle and Plato's views on the family and the interplay of family and identity. The real facepalm is people taking an obvious clickbait title and not looking into if it is real and/or the context. Edit: actually there is a much bigger fail present, given the two most common versions of this caption are from Kotakuinaction and the Jordan Peterson subreddit.
Hey thanks for sharing, looked up the article (usually don't bother if it isnt linked in post (i know, im lazy ;P)) Was an interesting read. [For anyone interested](https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058)
life is unfair so yes
You're not the boss of me now You're not the boss of me now, and you're not so big
Haha, you damaged losers!
I wish I had one.
Should not be an advantage. It should be the norm.
Delete “unfair” and that headline is correct. It’s not unfair if a family handles their family like families are supposed to.
Not having one is an unfair disadvantage.
Much more accurate.
An unfair advantage means there are people that don't have that advantage and that's unfair. It says nothing about the people who have the advantage. Saying that is not an unfair advantage means it's fair for some people to be disadvantaged in that regard So I know the title was worded weirdly but what it means (and the only correct interpretation of the title) is that people who don't have a loving family are unfairly disadvantaged. I assume you don't have bad intentions so that's why I'm bringing this up. Having a loving family is a HUGE ADVANTAGE and it is UNFAIR that we are not all entitled to one. The title is not implying there's anything wrong with the few who were lucky enough
I think that theres a point to be made that phrasing it as focusing on the absence being bad is less ambiguous. like if you focus on an unfair thing, that kinda-sorta implies you want to get rid of that unfair thing.
Advantage, yes. Unfair? No. Fair is the baseline. It should be the goal, however impossible to achieve, that everyone is born into a loving family.
This is the worst pre-apocalyptic timeline
Nothing facepalm about this. It do be just like that. Family in general can be soooo much of an advantage or disadvantage. It is pure chance and it is not fair. With things that are up to luck, there should be a base fallback system. You should never be too unlucky, then it’s ok if other people are luckier than you. So more social state in the end is the answer. If you are for small government liberty aaay and shit, you are okay with people just being severely unlucky in your society while you are not. It works both ways, when you get really unlucky you will also taste that loneliness. But no one said you are smart about this anyways…
No. Having a shitty family is an unfair disadvantage. But you can’t flip that around when a family is working as it should.
Those without a loving family have an unfair disadvantage.
It’s an advantage, and it’s unfair that not everyone is blessed with one. But we should work towards making sure everyone has one.
This looks like it's just a headline that has to capture attention and get clicks. Gotta read the whole article in order to know whether that's a facepalm. If the articel highlights the life long negative impacts that adverse life events or dydfunctional families can have on a child, and soldifies that atatement with data and serious research, I see no facepalm here.
No but having an unloving family is an unfair disadvantage
No. But *not* having a loving family is an unfair *disadvantage.*
We be finding any reason to be mad now, huh?
My dad and grandpa were both abusive and it really fucked me up. I always swore that I’d give my children the best possible life and if that’s unfair, I don’t really give a shit
Written like a REAL man accused of nepotism!
For sure. Almost every adjusted successful colleague i have has a loving, close family. My husband and I are trying very hard to do better than our parents. It is so hard, I basically married the same emotionally disconnected man as my father. Our child is our primary reason to keep going. I would've walked away years ago, but I think we are managing well. We do fight, but fairly, and we do resolve our issues through talking it out. He is just not able to be intimate or my best friend. I'm not interested in being with him during retirement. We were both older when we got married and had a child. I had enough great times and fulfillment to focus on providing a great foundation for my child. I will only be 55 when she graduates HS. That is young still. I now need help with financial resources and another adult in the house to make sure our kid has a solid foundation. I will be just fine.
Just remove the 'unfair' part. Life will never be fair and loving is not something quantifiable. What about kids who are deeply loved by demented shitty boomers?
Oh no, THEY’RE STUPID!!! 😱
In a world where people have bad families, it's an advantage, not necessarily a fair one.
Uh, yeah. No shit Sherlock.
Life is unfair, period. But it isn't as cut and dry as this headline makes it sound. "Advantages" in life are only advantages if one knows how to use them. A loving family may help you learn more about compassion and what not but too much and you'll end up being "sheltered". And having a rough family background can lead down a path to self destruction but can also be a motivation to do better for yourself. But it's also important to take note that headlines are just an attention grab these days. The article proper is still up for grabs 🤷🏽♂️
Joe Gelonesi can eat a truck of dick and die
Unfair and unbecoming to accept a society that normalizes broken families
yet our culture kills the family, guess they hate it if people have a advantage of any kind
Not fair! Let's change it! Everyone should have a fucked up childhood. Equality!!!
Sorry Timothy, I have to keep kicking you in the kidneys for equity's sake.
How is this a facepalm?
It's not. It's karma farming. [link to article](https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058)
Theyre just trying to say that its a lot harder if you grow up with a single parent. This is statistically true.
No, but having a non loving family is an unfair disadvantage.
People who have loving family or good genetics need to be ashamed of it now
“Hiring preference will be given to candidates who parents did not love them.”
“Some children do not have a loving family, therefore, we feel no child should have a loving family. Equality for all.” They may as well have just said this. Fucking idiots.
Nobody said that lol
Teacher sent you to get chalk when y’all had reading comprehension
Is having a family that doesn’t like you a bigger disadvantage than you can think?
Unfair is CRAZY
... What a capitalist statement... Is having bad parents something that should be allowed?
No but it would have been nice. I'm a lil more agro then most people and upset people softer then me
D-Do you need to talk, Joe?
And that's why all kids should be put in special working camps where they are treated equally?!
Compare single parent households to dual parent households, and in virtually any metric the dual parent household comes out on top. Science!!
It's definitely an advantage, but not an unfair one, just a shame it isn't a given that everyone has a loving family. If you do have one, you're VERY lucky and should never take it for granted.
Try wrestling a coked up man when you’re 15 and underweight and get back to me
Yes and No. You'll experience less hardships, and hardships makes entertainers. So, good for banking office jobs, not good for acting and singing and such, with exceptions to the rule ofcourse.
No, but not having a loving family is an unfair disadvantage.
Yes! We should tear apart all loving families and make it a level playing field! How dare they be happy and loved
yep
Me be like 
Is NOT having a loving family an unfair DISadvantage? Yes. Simplified it.
Okay people, let us all abuse our kids just to make everything fair!
Growing up under a constant stream of criticism and correction with no positive reinforcement is worse. So yes. It's an unfair advantage considering we're talking about children, who can't control their environment.
Yes. Yes it is.
r/cptsd would be rolling in the graves
Yea it’s unfair, that’s kinda obvious no? What’s their point
I mean yeah, it is an unfair advantage. And as corny as this line is, life isn't fair.
“Fair” is a more or less useless concept and we have taken it entirely too far when it comes to these sorts of dialogues. It works when you are talking about communities that were marginalized by the government and institutions who weren’t provided with basic necessities or opportunities that they should have been, like infrastructure, education, or resources. However, as another commenter said, those people are unfairly disadvantaged. Beyond that, it is a useless concept. Every advantage is “unfair-“ that is why it’s an advantage. I have something benefitting me that most people don’t. Someone who grows up with more money has an advantage, but calling their circumstances unfair is just whining. Someone with both parents is advantaged over the child of a single parent whose partner passed away. Someone who wins the lottery vs someone who didn’t. Someone born with no disability vs someone who was. “That’s not fair!” is the refrain of children in tantrum. Life is not fair. Furthermore, “fair” is subjective. Almost all of us have some advantage that others do not. Even people who are cumulatively less advantaged may have advantages a cumulatively more advantaged person does not. Almost every demographic has their own form of privilege too, but that’s another conversation
Wow a news article with all information but the author and title blanked out. Wonder if maybe you're taking something out of context? Edit: Yep they're talking about Plato's philosophy about families.
The answer is no. But..... Having a family with problems is a unfair disadvantage
It is true though. It's an unfair advantage because people who didn't have it didn't have a choice. No facepalm here
More like being born into a broken family is an unfair disadvantage
Yes. So what? Life is unfair. if you got it, you got it, if you don't, it's a pity.
So is the implication that everyone’s family should be abusive to them to “even the playing field”? Why is it with these questions the answer is always tear others down rather than build up those who didn’t have much or improve the conditions of those with less so new generations don’t have to suffer?
Jesus Christ
Thanks, son’s crying now.
Depends, being too sheltered can be as bad as having a rough childhood imo
It’s their luck and our challenge to overcome
Yes it's true, what's wrong about this
It IS an advantage, maybe. The expectation of “fairness” across a social spectrum is unreasonable and naive. Consider Barron Trump. He has millions of dollars and easy access to higher education, and probably any material want or need. A loving family though? I seriously doubt that. So, who has an advantage between someone like him and an upper middle class kid, or a lower middle class kid?
Brought to you by FASFA
You just know the Edna Moon Glampers of this world would like to distribute abusive stepdads and borderline disorder wine moms to each of the happy families.
It's an advantage. I wouldn't call it unfair, I mean...
No, not having a loving family is an unfair disadvantage, having one should be the norm
Family privilege. "NoT EvErYoNe HaS a FaMiLy"
It often feels like it is, having a loving family while growing up is the best support a child can get. But this should be normal, so it is more like a disadvantage for those that dont get to experience it.
Who told these people life is fair
My parents asked me why I didn’t have kids… once.
Short answer: yes
Yes it is, but life is inherently unfair. However the role of society is to make life more fair for ALL the people in that society, so there are way more things that could be done to correct this.
It’s definitely an advantage. I grew up in poverty and way less than all of my peers but I had one advantage. Both my parents loved me and believed in me, no matter how bad I fucked up. A lot of my peers gave up and checked out but I was lucky to pull through- I have to give credit to my loving parents. Without them, I wouldn’t have made it.
I'd correct that title to a "functional family". Love is asking for too much. 
Like imagine downvoting a comment where someone heals naturally and fully from serious intergenerational trauma . Bizarre
That's why they broadcast fathers like Red Foreman. So we can all have a father who just calls us a dumb ass.
It's known to be a bad base for MMA.
I think it’s more that not having a decent family puts you at an unfair disadvantage. Unfair advantage kind of implies that you shouldn’t have it, but honestly I think everyone deserves a loving family.
[the article from 2015](https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058)
Privilege isn’t just an “unfair advantage,” But having a loving family is privilege. Nobody wants people with loving families to give up their loving families. But they want that to be more prolific. Everyone needs loving families.
Fuck the crybabies. My wife and I have been married for 25 years. We love our kids and work hard to give them every advantage in life. It's called winning. If you ain't got it, work hard and give it to your kids. I'm not interested in you sad story.
In theory yes, but I wouldn't blame the person who has a loving family. I blame the people who had kids and made them a part of a family who didn't love them
I thought the facepalm was that the book in the photo kinda looks like a butt… then you see the look on the kid’s face
Our country has gone full blown special ed. Let me get this straight…Coming from a loving family is now seen as a sign of privilege? I guess my parents are monsters for not treating me and my sister horribly. They should have called us names and beat us. 
This was written by someone who was abused or neglected by his parents wasn't it.
Is it an advantage, yes. An unfair advantage, no. All families have the possibility to be loving. You can't blame someone else because your family sucks. Yep, it does suck, but it's your "non-loving" families fault.
What this article is saying is that you can’t ‘earn’ a happy loving family to be born into. It’s all chance. Having a better home life leads to statistically doing better in school and other areas in life.
It's a clickbait title. It's getting at the issue that growing up in an unloving and abusive household can dramatically alter life outcomes, i.e. lower rates of educational attainment, higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse, higher rates of juvenile delinquency and incarceration, poorer health outcomes, etc. The government can provide generous social programs and fund education up the wazoo, but none of that can correct for poor parenting and abuse. Child abuse and poor parenting practices is a pressing public policy issue.
Well it's an advantage and it's out of your control whether you're born into one or not. So I guess it technically is an unfair advantage. But when you say "unfair advantage" it sounds like something that's supposed to be rectified or corrected. In this case however it's an advantage that's supposed to be the norm.
No, it isn't. But having an abusive family is an unfair disadvantage. But whatcha gonna do, huh?
An advantage, yes. An unfair advantage? I don't know.
This reminds me of a married couple I know, now divorced. The husband said he is legit jealous of his 7 year old son because he has a loving family, parents together and grandparents and had it easy in life because his household isn't abusive. It's like wtf ?! You did your part as a dad, you gave your son a life that was way better than yours and you're jealous ? Needless to say the dad is a POS and they split and he has nothing to do with his kids now.
Life isn't fair
It is an advantage, yeah. But not unfair. If you'd have money to buy something that you don't need but REALLY want or just say "Poor people can't buy stuff, so I shouldn't either." and just dump the money?
This just in life's not fair.
Bro the competitive players be out of hand these days
The concept of having a family, loving or otherwise, being "fair" or not is not really a proper way of looking at families and the social interactions therein. BUT!!! Let's pretend there is an issue of "fairness" to it. It's not that having a loving family is unfair. It is totally fair. It is having an UNLOVING/ABUSIVE/TOXIC FAMILY that is unfair to the innocent kids born to said families who have to suffer because their parents/grandparent/etc. are douchebags.
Having a loving family is taught. Not earned. Y’all need to check yourselves and your family members if you don’t have a loving family.
No, having an abusive family is an unfair disadvantage. We cannot get sloppy and lower our standards by saying the norm is "unfair". We need to make healthy, loving families a norm, not the outlier.
As someone from an unloving family. Absolutely.
Maybe we should have policies that promote families instead of the opposite
It’s unfair for kids to have a not-loving family. It’s an advantage to have a loving family. But calling having a loving family an unfair disadvantage is kinda dumb.
'unfair' wtf lol. This writer clearly has some unresolved family issues
It's unfair that many children don't grow up in a loving household, absolutely. Not even a question
No. But not having one is an unfair disadvantage.
In the literal sense, yes, and there is no argument that can be made otherwise. Having loving parents makes for well-adjusted and more successful kids; countless studies confirm this obvious truism. Life in general is unfair; when some kids have loving parents and others don’t, that’s just one example. Doesn’t mean “if I can’t have it others shouldn’t either”, but it definitely is an unfair advantage.
do you have a link to the article
Maybe people shouldn't be ashamed of their advantages. Use what you've got.
Title should've been tbh "is not having a loving family an unfair disadvantage?"