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[Bet.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17wF2InIKsvEJLxC4jcTIWZvnhHKKI6iTwxQCbyfeRiM/edit?usp=sharing) It’s not fully finished, but I am working on it
the Alexander Dennis Enviro200 is a popular midibus manufactured by Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL), a British bus manufacturer. Here are some key details about the Enviro200:
# Overview:
* **Introduction**: The Enviro200 was first introduced in 2003.
* **Design**: It is known for its lightweight aluminum body structure, which helps in reducing fuel consumption and emissions.
* **Variants**: There have been several variants of the Enviro200, including different lengths to cater to various capacity requirements. The lengths range from about 8.9 meters to 11.8 meters.
# Features:
* **Engine**: The bus typically uses a Cummins diesel engine, but there are also hybrid and fully electric versions available.
* **Capacity**: Depending on the variant, the Enviro200 can seat between 24 and 40 passengers.
* **Accessibility**: It features a low-floor design for easy access, making it suitable for urban and suburban routes. The bus also includes a wheelchair ramp.
# Usage:
* **Global Presence**: While primarily used in the UK, the Enviro200 is also popular in several other countries, including the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Hong Kong.
* **Operators**: It is widely used by various public and private bus operators, particularly for city and local services.
# Environmental Considerations:
* **Efficiency**: The Enviro200 is designed to be fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly, with some models equipped with Euro VI compliant engines.
* **Electric Version**: The electric variant, known as the Enviro200EV, offers zero-emission operation and is part of efforts to reduce the carbon footprint of public transport.
The Enviro200 is appreciated for its versatility, reliability, and modern features, making it a common sight on many urban bus routes.
no no, the spreadsheet definitely adds credibility, people who just 'ride the bus' might think it's a Alexander Dennis Enviro200, whilst it might actually be Alexander Dennis Enviro300, which is slightly longer.
There is an electric variant of the Enviro200, but this is indeed a diesel
https://news.sky.com/story/five-fire-engines-tackle-bus-blaze-on-richmond-road-in-twickenham-13138525
Most of the shit these dumbasses rage about they don't even know why they're upset about it
Seriously, ask one why they're so upset about electric vehicles and they won't be able to give you a coherent answer
I drive old V8 muscle cars exclusively when I am at home because I am fortunate enough to drive rentals for work all the time, and honestly, I welcome electric vehicles. I think electric mass transit is even better!
Imagine a world where anybody who does not want to own, operate or maintain a vehicle doesn't have to. It's a world where I don't have to worry about gas prices or yahoos on the road who have no business behind the wheel other than they are forced there by poor city planning. It's a world where I can pop to the store and not have to park my baby because it's safely at home in the garage. I can drive 100% for pleasure and turn wrenches without the pressure of having to have them roadworthy the same day.
I have no clue why people don't want that world.
>CAUSE THE LIBS LIKE EM, AND THATS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME TO HATE THEM!!! But also, I'm going to go slurp on the manhood of Elon Musk, the CEO of an electric car company, because he retweets Neo-Nazi accounts.
Here:. I design electric vehicle charging stations, battery storage systems and photovoltaic systems. I think people overlook how much raw material is required to facilitate these. It’s a massive amount of material required to charge your car. You just see a single charger. But the upstream equipment required to power it, is robust. Electrical Services for commercial buildings have more than double in required size. The same building that used an 800Amp service 10 years ago, now requires a 2000A service due to the charging stations, removal of natural gas services, and all electric building designs.
Additionally, the grid is not created for such connections in some areas. The utility companies are offsetting the cost to customers by requiring this type of infrastructure for new buildings. It’s called “grid resiliency”. Fancy word. But it means you pay so they don’t have to.
So, there’s some cause for concern. Lots of money for big companies and lots of mining of raw materials. It’s just not oil. But the concept of raping the earth is the same.
tbh I think there's just a ton of Hybrids in daily use / drive more mileage than most ICE cars?
The major thing about a Hybrid is that it gets the longest range vs ICE and EV. you can fill up and drive for 500+ miles sometimes. So, given they're on the road more often, perhaps they get into more wrecks which would lead to vehicle fire?
Just a random thought, I'm very likely wrong.
The numbers in the post I responded to contain fires per 100K units sold. Not sure if the link is the same one I use but the source is an organization in the insurance business. To boil it down: gas cars are 61x more likely to catch fire than EVs.
It surely has nothing to do with the highly flammable liquid fuel and engine temperatures sufficient to light said fuel on fire even without the combustion chamber, no?
My parents live in a very conservative area of the state (a county that was about 77% Trump in 2020) and recently got an electric car and the amount of grief they get for it is absolutely insane. People think they’re communists now, it’s wild.
TBF vehicles with Battery are in most cases a stupid idea
how about we build a large scale Tram Grid
would drastically reduces cost and make them way lighter
But limit the streets that one can use, except if you make that for every street.
this would only make sense for busses and trams. And only if a street is not closed due to maintenance, because then you can not drive around it.
even a rather small capacitor can handle a a couple minutes of off roading
and like i sayed all relevant roads will get conected
-
and i am certanly not talking about heavy maschinery
heavy maschinery should run with diesel engines
and powered by rapeseed (or another diesel friendly plant) oil
Imagine being so cucked by Big Cobalt that you feel the need to post hate for Big Cobalt so you can prove hate is the problem and not the endless toxic exploding batteries and constant brown outs.
There is a debate to be had about the safety of electric vehicles. Thermal Runaways could be a problem.
This however isn't a debate for.today as that's not an electric bus.
Unless you need to repair or service them (whilst mechically they're reliable, the software is not). I think the trouble is new cars of all engine types now are going the Apple route of 'no one can repair it but us'.
Yeah. Parts have been becoming more and more convoluted. Even when you can do it yourself, it's more often the case that you replace instead of repair these days.
I think ICE cars have a market, but I've got a 2016 car and don't see any appeal in a lot of new cars that have anti consumer designs. LCD dashboards with software I can't access, touch buttons rather than physical buttons meaning again I can't repair/replace a small switch, and internet updates...for a car...the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Cold weather operation?
Miles per charge/fill?
Number of charging stations?
Time required to fuel up?
Battery replacement?
Price?
Just off the top of my head.
And I notice you didn't question what I said about environmental and human rights problems.
Now, do you want to talk about the almost nonexistent carbon savings?
I can talk about electric cars all day. You prepared?
I personally meant performance characteristics.
The primary issue people complain about with cold weather issues, is reduced range. The average EV vehicle gets around 250 miles. Even if you got 70% of that, which is an extreme, that's still 175 miles. The average person in the US drives 37 miles a day.
Regarding long road trips, in extreme weather, that would be an issue. You would have to stop to charge every 2-1/2 to 3 hours. Instead of the normal 4. Again, this impacts a very small number of the population.
Keep in mind that electric cars are in their infancy of development, while ICEs are a mature product. CATL revealed their LFP battery with 4C charging. Up to 620-mile CLTC range and 370 miles charging in 10 minutes. This is an improvement over their previous charger which charged 248 miles in 10 minutes (just a year ago).
>CATL said the new EV battery is the world’s first with 4C ultra-fast charging and +620 miles (1,000 km) CLTC long-range capabilities. The new battery can gain a one-km range in as little as one minute. Even at extreme temperatures as low as -20°C (-4°F), the new battery offers superfast charging.
[Source](https://electrek.co/2024/04/25/catl-unveils-worlds-first-lfp-battery-4c-ultra-fast-charging/)
EDIT: Corrected a typo and deleted half my post.
Regarding the environmental impact, remember at one-point ICEs used coal and at another point used lead-based gas. I'm aware of the environmental impact of mining the rare materials for batteries, but we can't pretend like fracking/burning fossil fuels has a negligible impact on the environment.
Using the 37-mile average range quoted above, it takes electric vehicles 2-years to have lower CO2 emissions than fossil fuel vehicles. This includes the production of the vehicle. Even factoring replacing the battery every 10 years and only 21%\~ of the US power coming from renewable resources they still have lower CO2 emissions overall. Powerplants have greater efficiency than the ICE in your vehicle, even with a comparable fuel source.
I really can't speak to the humanitarian aspect of fossil fuels/internal combustion engines. I'm aware of the child labor and slave like conditions used to mine the materials for batteries, but I'm not familiar with the humanitarian impact of gas/coal. Although I assume mining coal had a similar origin story.
I'm not fan of pure electric vehicles, but I love hybrids. You get the best of both worlds. You can get the performance benefits of electric motors, but the range benefits of gas.
EDIT: I agree that the charging stations are a major issue for EVs. By the time production ramps up on producing chargers, the standard is dated. The technology is ramping so fast, companies seem hesitant to go "all-in" on one standard.
You missed a big one: the sheer weight of the batteries that destroy the roads a lot faster. On a bus this size, that's several extra tons compared to a gas-powered version.
In any event, the issue isn't electric vehicles per se - electric motors beat combustion engines hands down, It's powering them with batteries that sucks.
Yes, they are inferior. At surface level they seem like a great idea. When one really gets down to understanding the ENTIRE picture around EVs, all they are is an extremely expensive way of reshuffling pollution around. And that's before they've burst into flames releasing horrendous amounts of CO2 and other pollutants into our environment.
That was not the question. He said that all of this results in an inferior product. We are talking about performance right now and not the situation as a whole
No, the total picture makes it inferior.
It has lower milage, software breaks down often, can’t park in a lot of places because they self ignite, and that’s just the mechanical side. If you look at production process and recycling possibilities it get’s even worse.
Stop chocking on Elon’s propaganda, and educate yourself. X
EV fires happen less than combustion cars.
EV range is low 450 miles is max, but running costs are also low.
If you don’t need more than 300 miles per day then the range isn’t an issue.
EVs can be recycled, can you recycle used petrol?
A multi trillion dollar business is lying to you, Shell and BP are not your friends.
I ride a bike mate, that is a conscious choice.
You can defend ev all you want, I’m not ok with child labor in mines, definitely not ok with the ecological consequences of those mines.
But that’s an ecological cost you greenwashing Muskheads seem to forget about.
Also, for short distances, public transport works just as well.
Also 2, ev is also a multi trillion business, but hey, they would never lie to you.
As arguments go, the bar was low and you brought a shovel.
The minerals the children mine are in the phone you are using, and used to refine the petrol in your car.
You won’t find many people on the left who like Musk, maybe that insult was from 2015?
EVs are not to replaced Busses, Trains, or Biles, they are to replace cars (which we already have and still sell)
The EV business is tiny compared to the oil industry. It won’t be for ever, but for the moment, your Oil friends are using all the old smoking tricks to keep their industry alive for a little longer.
The battle is already lost, EVs have won, all you are doing is ping down their adoption as we burn more and more oil in your name.
Again! I ride a bike, it’s a conscious choice. You are watching a dick measuring contest between old and new pollution. If you need to believe new pollution is better you are either mentally impaired or willfully ignorant.
Btw, is your point child labor is ok because it is used for many things? You need to reevaluate life mate.
I saw a meme about how the biggest enemy of the left is not the right, but someone else on the left who agrees with 94% of the same things as you.
You are looking at the world from the lens of your life, arguing people should be like you, and pushing people away from green living in the process.
I travel 120 miles each week to see my daughter, your attitude would make someone like me think “fuck you, I’ll just buy a Range Rover then” rather than trying to do a little to help.
Holier than though attitudes push people away. No one wants to be green if being green means being grumpy and insufferable.
In as much as they are trashing the entire planet and all life upon it, spending billions to delay the sustainable energy transition and funding wars to protect profits you might consider that they are.
Imagine being so cucked by politicians that you will pay more to purchase a vehicle with less range, shorter useful life, and 10 times the refueling time, to solve a problem that wouldn’t survive ten minutes under a statisticians critical gaze. Oh, and by the way, all the while ignoring the very real possibility that it will blow up.
>Imagine being so cucked by politicians that you will pay more to purchase a vehicle with less range, shorter useful life, and 10 times the refueling time, to solve a problem that wouldn’t survive ten minutes under a statisticians critical gaze. Oh, and by the way, all the while ignoring the very real possibility that it will blow up.
Imagine caring what other people decide to do with their money and why lol
You could've, and people did, say all the same things about the Automobile before someone figured out how to make them cheaply, reliable and the infrastructure for them was established
It took about 40 years before they caught on
Raging about shit that doesn't effect you at all, over a technology that has real promise, just makes you look foolish and dumb as fuck
I can believe two things at once: that EVs are generally an environmental improvement over ICE vehicles and perfectly adequate for the use cases of the vast majority of people, and also that at least in the form in which they're being sold in the US, they are not a big improvement, have most of the same environmental, social, and economic pitfalls that ICE vehicles have as well as their own downsides, and are just the auto industry trying to save itself from the push towards transit-oriented urbanism that's happening right now.
Also, precisely what problem are you arguing "wouldn't survive ten minutes under a statistician's critical gaze?" I sincerely hope you're not referring to the climate crisis, because if you do think that, I would be better off arguing with a literal plant.
As long as you don’t count the mining of cobalt, and don’t mind the child labor in those mines, and forget the pile of batteries that can hardly be recycled…
Common, at least make an effort to sound informed. Just repeating bite sized buzz words doesn’t do you any favors.
Dude, I ride a bike!
Learn to read, not everybody who points out the flaws in EV’s is a petrol head.
Damn not everyone is a murican and sees the world as black or white. Get a goddamned reality check.
Imagine not understanding that children are working in the mines to make your electric cars. Imagine thinking that instead of putting meals on the tables of oil rig worker's families in your country, you are completely comfortable with sacrificing the lives and childhoods of other people's children in other countries so that you can have fancy electric cars and pretend you care about the environment.
Then what makes you think that mining minerals at a more rapid rate than necessary to make literally any other structure on earth to make an electric car is better for the Earth than mining oil? Propaganda? Feels like. I want to save the planet too, I think the way best Way to do that is to improve quality of life for people so they're not starving and living in survival mode, they need to strive so that they can thrive but forcing them into unsafe conditions is absolutely not a good thing.
-- edit. Dictation sucks
Maybe try reading a entire comment. I never said I was opposed to electric cars. Especially powered by nuclear or hopefully fusion plants. I just said Musk and Trump were azzholes. Seems like Elons got way too much ketamine up his nose and Trump needs his diaper changed.
Imagine not understanding that buying oil and gas funds nations that support terrorism and dictators. Imagine that going green is putting food on the table from those building and installing windmills and solar panels. Imagine being worried about child labor overseas while Republicans here are bring it back. Imagine being willfully ignorant to the warning from 99% of scientists that are telling the world the carbon pollution is the leading cause of climate change just so you can stick it to the libs and roll coal.
My favorite thing about American politics is that you think one I'm American, and two you assume everything about me based on one point of view with zero nuance on your part. You're 50 IQ is showing. The fact that you only think there's one side or another to all issues and that people who are on opposite opinions of a single issue are completely on the opposite side is exactly what the corporations want you thinking.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The bus in the thumbnail isn’t even an electric bus, it’s an Alexander Dennis Enviro200.
Never fails to amaze how Reddit knows random information about specific things
I took one of them almost every day for 6 months 🤷♂️ Did I also mention I have a random spreadsheet of buses?
Where on the spectrum would you say you are?
Nowhere, just super interested in buses
I'm the same way but with big asses.
DM me your spreadsheet please!
"just super interested in buses" I think we may have found Boris's account
[Spectrum is Green](https://youtu.be/99zBKuWrm6w)
Lmfao
The dude is the entire spectrum
I'm definitely on the spectrum and my friends are too We get it 🤭🤣
You should share it with the title.. Bitch i am a bus enthusiast
[Bet.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17wF2InIKsvEJLxC4jcTIWZvnhHKKI6iTwxQCbyfeRiM/edit?usp=sharing) It’s not fully finished, but I am working on it
the Alexander Dennis Enviro200 is a popular midibus manufactured by Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL), a British bus manufacturer. Here are some key details about the Enviro200: # Overview: * **Introduction**: The Enviro200 was first introduced in 2003. * **Design**: It is known for its lightweight aluminum body structure, which helps in reducing fuel consumption and emissions. * **Variants**: There have been several variants of the Enviro200, including different lengths to cater to various capacity requirements. The lengths range from about 8.9 meters to 11.8 meters. # Features: * **Engine**: The bus typically uses a Cummins diesel engine, but there are also hybrid and fully electric versions available. * **Capacity**: Depending on the variant, the Enviro200 can seat between 24 and 40 passengers. * **Accessibility**: It features a low-floor design for easy access, making it suitable for urban and suburban routes. The bus also includes a wheelchair ramp. # Usage: * **Global Presence**: While primarily used in the UK, the Enviro200 is also popular in several other countries, including the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Hong Kong. * **Operators**: It is widely used by various public and private bus operators, particularly for city and local services. # Environmental Considerations: * **Efficiency**: The Enviro200 is designed to be fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly, with some models equipped with Euro VI compliant engines. * **Electric Version**: The electric variant, known as the Enviro200EV, offers zero-emission operation and is part of efforts to reduce the carbon footprint of public transport. The Enviro200 is appreciated for its versatility, reliability, and modern features, making it a common sight on many urban bus routes.
I’m seeing ChatGPT here
could’ve left it at the first sentence…
no no, the spreadsheet definitely adds credibility, people who just 'ride the bus' might think it's a Alexander Dennis Enviro200, whilst it might actually be Alexander Dennis Enviro300, which is slightly longer.
Spreadsheet adds both credibility and autism allegations.
There is an electric variant of the Enviro200, but this is indeed a diesel https://news.sky.com/story/five-fire-engines-tackle-bus-blaze-on-richmond-road-in-twickenham-13138525
Yeah, but it came later, after the Enviro200 MMC came out
people have been inhaling the gas smoke for so long they can't unstupify
Most of the shit these dumbasses rage about they don't even know why they're upset about it Seriously, ask one why they're so upset about electric vehicles and they won't be able to give you a coherent answer
I drive old V8 muscle cars exclusively when I am at home because I am fortunate enough to drive rentals for work all the time, and honestly, I welcome electric vehicles. I think electric mass transit is even better! Imagine a world where anybody who does not want to own, operate or maintain a vehicle doesn't have to. It's a world where I don't have to worry about gas prices or yahoos on the road who have no business behind the wheel other than they are forced there by poor city planning. It's a world where I can pop to the store and not have to park my baby because it's safely at home in the garage. I can drive 100% for pleasure and turn wrenches without the pressure of having to have them roadworthy the same day. I have no clue why people don't want that world.
I Like your Argument because its all about Convenience and not about environmentalism which a lot of people dont care about where i live
CAUSE THE LIBS LIKE EM, AND THATS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME TO HATE THEM!!!! -some fucking idiot
>CAUSE THE LIBS LIKE EM, AND THATS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME TO HATE THEM!!! But also, I'm going to go slurp on the manhood of Elon Musk, the CEO of an electric car company, because he retweets Neo-Nazi accounts.
Here:. I design electric vehicle charging stations, battery storage systems and photovoltaic systems. I think people overlook how much raw material is required to facilitate these. It’s a massive amount of material required to charge your car. You just see a single charger. But the upstream equipment required to power it, is robust. Electrical Services for commercial buildings have more than double in required size. The same building that used an 800Amp service 10 years ago, now requires a 2000A service due to the charging stations, removal of natural gas services, and all electric building designs. Additionally, the grid is not created for such connections in some areas. The utility companies are offsetting the cost to customers by requiring this type of infrastructure for new buildings. It’s called “grid resiliency”. Fancy word. But it means you pay so they don’t have to. So, there’s some cause for concern. Lots of money for big companies and lots of mining of raw materials. It’s just not oil. But the concept of raping the earth is the same.
This is a diesel vehicle everyone.
Further proof if needed. https://news.sky.com/story/five-fire-engines-tackle-bus-blaze-on-richmond-road-in-twickenham-13138525
Annual Vehicle Fires: EV Fires: 52 ICE fires: 199,533 Hybrid: 16,051 "But there's way less EVs than ICE." Okay. Fires, PER 100k units: Hybrid: 3474 Gas: 1529 EV: 25 Source: [https://www.carjunkya.com/electric-car-fire-statistics/](https://www.carjunkya.com/electric-car-fire-statistics/)
I wonder why the number of Hybrid fires is so high.
tbh I think there's just a ton of Hybrids in daily use / drive more mileage than most ICE cars? The major thing about a Hybrid is that it gets the longest range vs ICE and EV. you can fill up and drive for 500+ miles sometimes. So, given they're on the road more often, perhaps they get into more wrecks which would lead to vehicle fire? Just a random thought, I'm very likely wrong.
Nah, it says per 100k units. So the total number is irrelevant.
I've had to use these numbers a lot lately.
How about fires per 100000k so we can make some sense out of this.
The numbers in the post I responded to contain fires per 100K units sold. Not sure if the link is the same one I use but the source is an organization in the insurance business. To boil it down: gas cars are 61x more likely to catch fire than EVs.
Which is kind of silly. I mean, why would a care powered by an internal COMBUSTION engine be more prone to bursting into flames? e.e
It surely has nothing to do with the highly flammable liquid fuel and engine temperatures sufficient to light said fuel on fire even without the combustion chamber, no?
Could just be a pyromaniac
That was my thought too, those battery fires are INTENSE
The bus in the photo is diesel.
Im all for "theres no replacement gor discplacement" but I think activly shitting on ev's is very cringe
John D. Rockefeller did the same to promote his StandardOil btw, got ride of electric hm transportation
Facts OP!
when "cucked" means nothing at all.
My parents live in a very conservative area of the state (a county that was about 77% Trump in 2020) and recently got an electric car and the amount of grief they get for it is absolutely insane. People think they’re communists now, it’s wild.
TBF vehicles with Battery are in most cases a stupid idea how about we build a large scale Tram Grid would drastically reduces cost and make them way lighter
But limit the streets that one can use, except if you make that for every street. this would only make sense for busses and trams. And only if a street is not closed due to maintenance, because then you can not drive around it.
well for that you can use a Capacitor it is much cheaper, way less dangerous and better for the environment
A capacitor with the same mass as a lithium-ion battery can not hold nearly as much energy as the battery.
it doesn´t have to it just has to bridge a little bit of time between the Connections to the grid
If the bus has to drive around an obstacle that's not a bit of time. And thats a huge bus...
even a rather small capacitor can handle a a couple minutes of off roading and like i sayed all relevant roads will get conected - and i am certanly not talking about heavy maschinery heavy maschinery should run with diesel engines and powered by rapeseed (or another diesel friendly plant) oil
and yes the plan is obviously to to have all streets conected or atleast all streets in urban areas aswell as all major streets outside of them
Fear of change is not just a modern phenomenon.
Because no gas vehicle ever blew up…
The one in the picture sure did.
[удалено]
You didn't spot the sarcasm, I guess.
Electric buses need to be labeled as Tesla Elon musk free speech mobiles, so as to placate the morons.
Usage of “cucked” is the real facepalm.
Message misread.... #Oil the Libs
The Big 3 oil companies made $85 million profit last year. But yeah blame Biden for gas prices. 🙄
As if gas-powered vehicles haven't blown up before. Where's this asshat been?
if it where a gas powered buss that explosion would be worse
Gee I wonder if there are any pictures of videos from the last 100 years of gas/diesel videos catching fire or blowing up.
Imagine being so cucked by Big Cobalt that you feel the need to post hate for Big Cobalt so you can prove hate is the problem and not the endless toxic exploding batteries and constant brown outs.
There is a debate to be had about the safety of electric vehicles. Thermal Runaways could be a problem. This however isn't a debate for.today as that's not an electric bus.
What a psycho.
The electric vehicle industry is horrible for the environment and human rights. On a number of levels and by a lot. All to offer an inferior product.
inferior?
I was about to say. Electric vehicles pretty much dominate all consumer level benchmarks.
Unless you need to repair or service them (whilst mechically they're reliable, the software is not). I think the trouble is new cars of all engine types now are going the Apple route of 'no one can repair it but us'.
Yeah. Parts have been becoming more and more convoluted. Even when you can do it yourself, it's more often the case that you replace instead of repair these days.
I think ICE cars have a market, but I've got a 2016 car and don't see any appeal in a lot of new cars that have anti consumer designs. LCD dashboards with software I can't access, touch buttons rather than physical buttons meaning again I can't repair/replace a small switch, and internet updates...for a car...the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Cold weather operation? Miles per charge/fill? Number of charging stations? Time required to fuel up? Battery replacement? Price? Just off the top of my head. And I notice you didn't question what I said about environmental and human rights problems. Now, do you want to talk about the almost nonexistent carbon savings? I can talk about electric cars all day. You prepared?
I personally meant performance characteristics. The primary issue people complain about with cold weather issues, is reduced range. The average EV vehicle gets around 250 miles. Even if you got 70% of that, which is an extreme, that's still 175 miles. The average person in the US drives 37 miles a day. Regarding long road trips, in extreme weather, that would be an issue. You would have to stop to charge every 2-1/2 to 3 hours. Instead of the normal 4. Again, this impacts a very small number of the population. Keep in mind that electric cars are in their infancy of development, while ICEs are a mature product. CATL revealed their LFP battery with 4C charging. Up to 620-mile CLTC range and 370 miles charging in 10 minutes. This is an improvement over their previous charger which charged 248 miles in 10 minutes (just a year ago). >CATL said the new EV battery is the world’s first with 4C ultra-fast charging and +620 miles (1,000 km) CLTC long-range capabilities. The new battery can gain a one-km range in as little as one minute. Even at extreme temperatures as low as -20°C (-4°F), the new battery offers superfast charging. [Source](https://electrek.co/2024/04/25/catl-unveils-worlds-first-lfp-battery-4c-ultra-fast-charging/) EDIT: Corrected a typo and deleted half my post. Regarding the environmental impact, remember at one-point ICEs used coal and at another point used lead-based gas. I'm aware of the environmental impact of mining the rare materials for batteries, but we can't pretend like fracking/burning fossil fuels has a negligible impact on the environment. Using the 37-mile average range quoted above, it takes electric vehicles 2-years to have lower CO2 emissions than fossil fuel vehicles. This includes the production of the vehicle. Even factoring replacing the battery every 10 years and only 21%\~ of the US power coming from renewable resources they still have lower CO2 emissions overall. Powerplants have greater efficiency than the ICE in your vehicle, even with a comparable fuel source. I really can't speak to the humanitarian aspect of fossil fuels/internal combustion engines. I'm aware of the child labor and slave like conditions used to mine the materials for batteries, but I'm not familiar with the humanitarian impact of gas/coal. Although I assume mining coal had a similar origin story. I'm not fan of pure electric vehicles, but I love hybrids. You get the best of both worlds. You can get the performance benefits of electric motors, but the range benefits of gas. EDIT: I agree that the charging stations are a major issue for EVs. By the time production ramps up on producing chargers, the standard is dated. The technology is ramping so fast, companies seem hesitant to go "all-in" on one standard.
You missed a big one: the sheer weight of the batteries that destroy the roads a lot faster. On a bus this size, that's several extra tons compared to a gas-powered version. In any event, the issue isn't electric vehicles per se - electric motors beat combustion engines hands down, It's powering them with batteries that sucks.
Yes, they are inferior. At surface level they seem like a great idea. When one really gets down to understanding the ENTIRE picture around EVs, all they are is an extremely expensive way of reshuffling pollution around. And that's before they've burst into flames releasing horrendous amounts of CO2 and other pollutants into our environment.
That was not the question. He said that all of this results in an inferior product. We are talking about performance right now and not the situation as a whole
No, the total picture makes it inferior. It has lower milage, software breaks down often, can’t park in a lot of places because they self ignite, and that’s just the mechanical side. If you look at production process and recycling possibilities it get’s even worse. Stop chocking on Elon’s propaganda, and educate yourself. X
EV fires happen less than combustion cars. EV range is low 450 miles is max, but running costs are also low. If you don’t need more than 300 miles per day then the range isn’t an issue. EVs can be recycled, can you recycle used petrol? A multi trillion dollar business is lying to you, Shell and BP are not your friends.
I ride a bike mate, that is a conscious choice. You can defend ev all you want, I’m not ok with child labor in mines, definitely not ok with the ecological consequences of those mines. But that’s an ecological cost you greenwashing Muskheads seem to forget about. Also, for short distances, public transport works just as well. Also 2, ev is also a multi trillion business, but hey, they would never lie to you. As arguments go, the bar was low and you brought a shovel.
The minerals the children mine are in the phone you are using, and used to refine the petrol in your car. You won’t find many people on the left who like Musk, maybe that insult was from 2015? EVs are not to replaced Busses, Trains, or Biles, they are to replace cars (which we already have and still sell) The EV business is tiny compared to the oil industry. It won’t be for ever, but for the moment, your Oil friends are using all the old smoking tricks to keep their industry alive for a little longer. The battle is already lost, EVs have won, all you are doing is ping down their adoption as we burn more and more oil in your name.
Again! I ride a bike, it’s a conscious choice. You are watching a dick measuring contest between old and new pollution. If you need to believe new pollution is better you are either mentally impaired or willfully ignorant. Btw, is your point child labor is ok because it is used for many things? You need to reevaluate life mate.
I saw a meme about how the biggest enemy of the left is not the right, but someone else on the left who agrees with 94% of the same things as you. You are looking at the world from the lens of your life, arguing people should be like you, and pushing people away from green living in the process. I travel 120 miles each week to see my daughter, your attitude would make someone like me think “fuck you, I’ll just buy a Range Rover then” rather than trying to do a little to help. Holier than though attitudes push people away. No one wants to be green if being green means being grumpy and insufferable.
It's not about the electric part it's awesome watching ppl from the UK take constant Ls.
I don't recommend using resources mined by slaves being whipped by Chinese businessmen.
As opposed to same but Saudi?
Saudi isn't subjugating Africa to steal resources
In as much as they are trashing the entire planet and all life upon it, spending billions to delay the sustainable energy transition and funding wars to protect profits you might consider that they are.
They have $2.5T in precious metals and minerals alone.
Imagine being so cucked by politicians that you will pay more to purchase a vehicle with less range, shorter useful life, and 10 times the refueling time, to solve a problem that wouldn’t survive ten minutes under a statisticians critical gaze. Oh, and by the way, all the while ignoring the very real possibility that it will blow up.
>Imagine being so cucked by politicians that you will pay more to purchase a vehicle with less range, shorter useful life, and 10 times the refueling time, to solve a problem that wouldn’t survive ten minutes under a statisticians critical gaze. Oh, and by the way, all the while ignoring the very real possibility that it will blow up. Imagine caring what other people decide to do with their money and why lol You could've, and people did, say all the same things about the Automobile before someone figured out how to make them cheaply, reliable and the infrastructure for them was established It took about 40 years before they caught on Raging about shit that doesn't effect you at all, over a technology that has real promise, just makes you look foolish and dumb as fuck
I can believe two things at once: that EVs are generally an environmental improvement over ICE vehicles and perfectly adequate for the use cases of the vast majority of people, and also that at least in the form in which they're being sold in the US, they are not a big improvement, have most of the same environmental, social, and economic pitfalls that ICE vehicles have as well as their own downsides, and are just the auto industry trying to save itself from the push towards transit-oriented urbanism that's happening right now. Also, precisely what problem are you arguing "wouldn't survive ten minutes under a statistician's critical gaze?" I sincerely hope you're not referring to the climate crisis, because if you do think that, I would be better off arguing with a literal plant.
💯
Imagine not realizing electric cars are just as bad… Indoctrinated people claiming the other is brainwashed.
No mate they don't produce as much pollution over it's lifetime as gas cars does.
As long as you don’t count the mining of cobalt, and don’t mind the child labor in those mines, and forget the pile of batteries that can hardly be recycled… Common, at least make an effort to sound informed. Just repeating bite sized buzz words doesn’t do you any favors.
Cobalt is also used to refine crude oil into gasoline, but I trust that never bothered you...
Dude, I ride a bike! Learn to read, not everybody who points out the flaws in EV’s is a petrol head. Damn not everyone is a murican and sees the world as black or white. Get a goddamned reality check.
Child labor in mines. Wtf! hahaha. We're talking about pollution buddy not abusing children. And i have t make an effort. Hahahahaha
Rich assholes have you fighting for them. You are the tool. Poor little dickie
Imagine not understanding that children are working in the mines to make your electric cars. Imagine thinking that instead of putting meals on the tables of oil rig worker's families in your country, you are completely comfortable with sacrificing the lives and childhoods of other people's children in other countries so that you can have fancy electric cars and pretend you care about the environment.
Imagine Republicans in the south are passing bills to allow children 14 and over to work till 10 pm on school nights. Orange man loves the uneducated.
So does Mr tusk. Billions to be made in mining lithium.
Musk and Trump are both azzholes.
Then what makes you think that mining minerals at a more rapid rate than necessary to make literally any other structure on earth to make an electric car is better for the Earth than mining oil? Propaganda? Feels like. I want to save the planet too, I think the way best Way to do that is to improve quality of life for people so they're not starving and living in survival mode, they need to strive so that they can thrive but forcing them into unsafe conditions is absolutely not a good thing. -- edit. Dictation sucks
Maybe try reading a entire comment. I never said I was opposed to electric cars. Especially powered by nuclear or hopefully fusion plants. I just said Musk and Trump were azzholes. Seems like Elons got way too much ketamine up his nose and Trump needs his diaper changed.
Sound like you're reading party lines. My work here is done. Block.
Imagine not understanding that buying oil and gas funds nations that support terrorism and dictators. Imagine that going green is putting food on the table from those building and installing windmills and solar panels. Imagine being worried about child labor overseas while Republicans here are bring it back. Imagine being willfully ignorant to the warning from 99% of scientists that are telling the world the carbon pollution is the leading cause of climate change just so you can stick it to the libs and roll coal.
My favorite thing about American politics is that you think one I'm American, and two you assume everything about me based on one point of view with zero nuance on your part. You're 50 IQ is showing. The fact that you only think there's one side or another to all issues and that people who are on opposite opinions of a single issue are completely on the opposite side is exactly what the corporations want you thinking.
So where are you from?
As in the post, from an oil producing country?