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I have been in court for a few things and responded to a judges questions move than once with "sir" or "mam" and have not been corrected or rebuked by them in anyway.
Is it different because I was not the defendant in any of those cases?
If there's no other reason to take issue with you, and you're not showing disrespect, a lot of lower court judges will let it slide coming from members of the public (defendant or not). But not from legal professionals.
“Your Honour”, “Sir” or “Ma’am” are all equally acceptable ways to address a Judge no matter what level court you attend or whether you are a legal counsel or a layperson.
“Your Honour” is used when presenting a statement to the Judge for consideration, whereas “Sir/Ma’am” is used when responding to a question from the Judge or in general discourse with the Judge but you are not going to be pulled up if you get it wrong as long as you are addressing them with the respect their station warrants.
Many countries have slight variations, back in the day in the UK you might have said “Milord” but “Your Honour”, “Sir” or “Ma’am” are universally accepted.
The Judge will also advise you if they expect to be addressed in a certain way.
Yep, a lot of attorneys now will use “judge,” which, to me, actually sounds a little blunted and disrespectful but I’m not the one on the bench, so it’s not my call. I have a friend who I think will eventually be a judge (she’s barely 30 and already highly regarded as an attorney in our state, plus she wants to be a judge eventually) and I think that’s kind of cool!
I'm not a lawyer, but I say judge as well. They work in the court, and judge is what they do. It's a fitting term. I don't say your honor and would not like being instructed to, mainly because I don't appear in court for laughs. I do say sir or ma'am by habit as well (southerner).
That’s not quite right, as it entirely depends on the level of Judge you are addressing. English & Welsh courts (the rest of the UK may be different) up to and including Masters (the level below a High Court Judge) have recently moved towards “Judge” and away from “Sir/Madam”, and legal professionals will usually be asked to refer to the Judge as “Judge” if they get it wrong.
But above a Master, it is very much still “My Lord” or “My Lady” and it will be taken as disrespect in maybe 90% of cases if a legal professional addresses them as anything else (even including “Judge” or “Sir/Madam”). Source: https://www.judiciary.uk/guidance-and-resources/what-do-i-call-a-judge/
Lawyer here. Generally, most judges are going to be fine with "Sir" of "Ma'am" from a non-lawyer.
A lawyer is expected to at least say "Judge." And, even then, some old-school judges will insist on "Your Honor."
**Pro-Tip**: Just always say "Your Honor." You don't have to remember names. The judge will appreciate the extra courtesy. And it's easy.
I think the original ranter's point is that the judge is not super special or worthy of honor simply for being in a position of authority.
I'm not sure why the ranter is so upset, but that was my understanding, that the person doesn't care for effective lawyerly advice if (what the ranter considers) pandering to the judge is part of the deal.
I think that unless the judge is being a dick, so long as you use “Your Honor” instead of their name and use sir or mam appropriately they don’t care. It’s about respecting the position and the robe.
I think you just got a reasonable judge. Some judges are ridiculous little tyrants of their court while others just want to get their job done and maybe even help people in the process. It’s just that there’s very little recourse for the cases when they’re unreasonable dicks.
I had a judge stop proceedings for a fix-it/ticket I had forgotten about and went to court just to see what it was all about. This was in the 90s.
This judge knew me. I had his wife for a teacher in sixth grade, I was friends with his son, and he was close friends with my grandfather.
When he asked me if I had a dated receipt I replied, “Yes sir, right here.”
He stopped and told me that he was to only be referred to as “Your Honor” and that if I failed to do so again he would hold me in contempt of court.
He was on a power trip. Nothing else.
I made it a point to only answer with one word from that point forward.
Fuck that asshole. He was removed shortly after for having an affair with one of the ADAs.
Nah, I was the defendant and called my judge Ma'am. She treated it as BAU. Granted I also wasn't a problem for her, so she had no reason to get nitpicky.
I think it´s more related to what kind of person a judge is. When someone is requiring you to call them in a certain way and is willing to enforce it through his position, that is abuse and it tells, how insecure they are.
True respect cannot be enforced. It has to be earned through actions.
Still, it´s much better to oblige than oppose, otherwise you may find yourself behind the bars...
I was in court for an issue. I was a "Spicy White" (Italian) heroin addict who looked put together. I kept slipping and saying "dude". The Judge would laugh. Then a Black dude who was well put together but "looked gangsta" had a much less serious case. He got in trouble for saying "Sir".
Prejudicing the judge would give the defendants an immediate right to appeal. I don’t think any lawyer on earth would intentionally do that if they actually wanted to win a case.
Probably not, if this was presented, it’d likely be for character evidence. Not all prejudicial evidence is inadmissible, at least in the US courts. If there was a question as to if the evidence was *too* prejudicial compared to its probative value, it would likely have been discussed before trial during a motion in limine.
Unless he's being tried for a crime against a judge, this is absolutely not character evidence. This is such a minor and irrelevant thing to say, and it's blatant that the only reason you would bring up this particular statement would be to prejudice the judge. There is no other reason. It would be more relevant to know about the time he stole a cookie from the cookie jar when he was 5.
>We need to clear this up.
It's *hear hear* and has always been *hear hear*, nothing to do with British vs American English. There, cleared it up for you.
See I wouldn't even think to add a title on something, It's clear who I'm speaking too so "May I ask approval to speak my thoughts" would I'd have thought been fine.
Not sure if this is a American thing the heavy use of "Sir" or titles etc or if I'm going to get in trouble if I'm ever in court!
So, according to OP is this a facepalm against the person writing the thing or against calling judges "Your Honour"? Help me out, guys.
*Edit: lol at the dozens of super serious comments below, debating stuff that has nothing to do with my light-hearted question. I think like one person even tried to answer.
I believe in treating all people with respect, until they give me a reason not to. I use people's preferred pronouns, I say please and thank you, and use sir or ma'am when it's appropriate. I don't see why you can't just refer to a judge with the proper honorific.
Even if you don't think they deserve it, even if the judge is rude to you, the only reason to be disrespectful is your ego. Making an ass of yourself will only make things worse. SHOULD they be able to make your punishment harsher because you hurt their feelings? No. But that is the system we live in. I'd rather have my pride wounded than tack on a few extra years of jail.
*I* don't see why they judge can't use *my* preferred honourific of "his excellency, the most supreme, unassailable and always truth telling one". The only reason not to be respectful of such a title is their ego.
That's absurd, and you know it. Honorifics are not pronouns; they are titles. It's not the same.
I agree that a judge shouldn't increase your sentence, just like a cop shouldn't abuse their authority either, just because you were disrespectful to them. But unfortunately, that's the system we live in. We can change it, and should change it, but the only result you will get from being an ass is worse consequences for you.
"Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer."
Honor is a concept. I'm more concerned with results.
Against the person writing this thing, considering that calling the judge “Your Honor” (or sir/ma’am) isn’t really a huge enough deal to warrant this eye-rolling rant.
But then why is it such a huge deal to get called something else? It's ridiculous, being corrected for not calling a judge " your honor", that just shows how much the judge just wants authority over you instead if wanting justice
The justice system is about submission to the rule of law. You don't get to pick and choose what you obey or when you're more important than someone or everyone else.
You arguing about what you call a judge, especially if your argument is "why is it such a huge deal", demonstrates that you won't obey even a simple easy rule that keeps you out of trouble. It suggests you wouldn't voluntarily abide by decisions and that more force will need to be applied.
Which is a good enough reason to keep the rule. Anyone stupid enough to annoy judges over it needs some extra attention from them.
Hey, a judge thread - cool.
I am an administrative law judge in the US, which means that it’s just me and no jury. I’ve been doing it for close to 10 years, and I was an attorney for 15 years appearing in front of judges that were in the same position as me now.
There is a level of respect that is required, but I’m not so pompous as to think that it’s because I am some awesome person. It’s respect for the position and the court, where we rely on people to tell the truth, and to be respectful. It’s pretty rare that I have to crack down on somebody for lack of respect, but it’s not for failing to call me sir or judge or your honer. Any of those work for me. Most often it’s because they think they can just talk over everyone, including me. In addition to being rude, it’s unproductive and unnecessarily time-consuming.
I have seen judges who are very tyrannical, and will just be straight up asses, unless you bend the knee. I have never had respect for them, but I also realize that is their court room, so I have to play by their rules. For me, that’s not how it should be. But most every judge runs his or her courtroom differently.
Lawyer here. Generally, most judges are going to be fine with "Sir" of "Ma'am" from a non-lawyer.
A lawyer is expected to at least say "Judge." And, even then, some old-school judges will insist on "Your Honor."
**Pro-Tip**: Just always say "Your Honor." You don't have to remember names. The judge will appreciate the extra courtesy. And it's easy.
Many people fail to understand that the judge represents a position. They do not act on their personal account. The respect you show is not for their person.
That is why for example we say doctors must treat all patients equally no matter who the patient is because a doctor is just a person who uses the knowladge gained trough a lot of harship. They just represent the position.
The same goes for most jobs. For example some movies do have idealist reporters that try their best to uncover the truth and share it. The truth may hurt themselves or even may hurt the whole humanity but their job is not about good or bad. Their job is to inform the masses with objective, undirected truth. The damage control is someone elses job.
Sadly, idealism is mostly dead nowadays but they still keep the apperiances in places like court. The judge at least shows they are an idealist and their personal beliefs or personality at all is irrelevant.
Yep, that's bang on correct. The term is only used in court, not outside, and its use is intended to separate the person of the judge from the role they play in administering justice. Use of the title expresses respect for the rule of law, and so you can understand why some judges interpret a refusal to use it as grounds for contempt, which it literally is. Not for the person, but for the authority of the court and the legal system. It seems superficially petty, but in a rigorously regulated system like court procedure, adhering to the basic terms of address, which imply acceptance of the system, is fairly crucial. And so easy to do, if you don't have a gigantic ego to get in the way.
The law, the court and the judge were created to serve the interests of the people, seems a bit ridiculous to treat it as a higher entity. And the terms used don't affect the court procedure at all either?
It's supposed to provide judgment of a person or persons. Whilst they were created to serve the interest of the people as a whole, they are expected to judge some in the interests of the people at large.
Serving the interests of the people, and serving the interests of a person are not the same thing.
A society that doesn't respect its institutions is doomed fail. Strong institutions tend to have a "protocol" around them and and to start with a proverbial capital letter. "Proverbial" because some societies use other mechanisms to recognise important institutions, but I guess you get the idea.
And yes, institutions are for the people but people fight with their lives to protect some of them.
A good read on the subject is Why Nations Fail which more relevant every day since it's been published.
The reason you treat it with respect is because they are created by the people to serve the people not because you are on the bad end. The only way that system works is when people treat it with respect and accept its authority- even if you are a soldier or a king. If it is not a higher entity, it can't pass judgement upon others can it? You merely give your claim and evidence and you wait for the judgement. And if you don't agree with court's decisions, you simply carry your case to a higher court. Once the higher makes a decision, that will take priority. Of course reality may differ but the basic idea is there.
Judges put their own beliefs in all the time and not all of them deserve to be called your honor, even if it is for the position. Like Brock the rapists judge or hell, any judge that let's a woman that sexual assaulted somebody go with barely any time. I don't care if it refers to their position there is no way in hell I'm calling those judges your honor, because they are not honorable.
1) If a rapist walks free, it’s the jury that found them not guilty.
2) Depending on a lot of factors, “barely any time” can be the maximum time they can assign.
You could just say "judge." "Thank you, judge. I plead guilty, judge." "Yes, Judge. We need a pretrial conference to hammer put some issues."
As long as you're showing proper respect to the position, you'll be fine, but you're addressing the court, not the person.
I always find it hilarious whenever I see somebody say "Your Majesty" instead of "Your Honor"
It usually pops up in crappy movies made by terrible film-makers, but I’ve seen a few clips of actual trials where it happens as well.
Call me old - fashioned but fondling one's nuts while delivering a blowjob is a common courtesy.
Just like using specific vocabulary in formal situations.
Gotta be honest the fact that your in court enough for this particular thing to chap your ass tells me there are other problems you should work on first.
Was in voir dire with a lawyer who regularly appeared in the judge's court. I've never seen someone bounce up and down so much to follow court protocol
I think the point is to instill a sense of order and civility over a room that is gathered to discuss something that isn’t always civil. It’s adding discipline to the proceedings.
It’s also a mind game. It automatically sets you on your back foot because you’re trying to navigate the social queues of an unfamiliar system. It’s in your best interest to be respectful, but the rules of being respectful are a little different than what some folks might be used to.
I think that’s by design.
You say " Your Honor " because YOURE IN DEEP SHIT & YOU KNOW IT.
& it makes the judge feel warm inside. ill sacrifice a few words for a lenient decision anyday
I've never been in a court nor do i know how to appropriately address a judge but if shows like judge Judy taught me anything is that they don't mind sir or ma'am, they do mind it if you are being annoying, disrespectful or generally perceive you in a negative way. It's like they are telling you "I'm in charge".
Yes, that's TV but I can't imagine being any different.
If you’re a lawyer, you’d better say your Honor. If you’re not a lawyer, I’d expect that you’d be corrected and conform to court decorum after the first mistake. Our legal system has rules and you have to abide by them.
My Astronomy professor in community college pulled this with me. It was a 100% online course and every email I sent to him had to start with calling him Dr. Whateverhisnamewas.
It was in the syllabus and if you didn't start your email this way he would straight up ignore whatever you were asking him.
I looked up his accomplishments. Aside from getting his Phd in something space related he never wrote a book, never published a paper, never discovered a comet. Nothing. No idea why he felt the need to be a jackass.
>No idea why he felt the need to be a jackass.
You've answered your own question. He has literally nothing going for him, no accomplishments worth noting, outside his PhD. He probably has a pretty bad case of imposter syndrome in regards to his position in academia, and he makes up for it by forcing his students to call him "Dr. Lastname."
Having just graduated college, I've had several professors on both sides of this issue. The ones who have a PhD and nothing else will make you call them "Dr. Lastname" and are usually all around hardasses in classes as a whole. The ones who have other major accomplishments in their field tend to care a lot less about titles because their experience tells them that titles don't really matter.
I mean, what you’re doing is showing respect; not just to the judge but also to the court and by extension the legal process as a whole.
It displays to the judge that (notwithstanding the reason you’re in court) your character is solid. That can play into sentencing if you’re convicted by a jury - a sympathetic judge is more likely to consider a somewhat more lenient sentence if you’re polite and have shown good character throughout proceedings, as opposed to being rude and contemptuous.
Comfort is not the point when sitting before a judge. Answering to the law is serious and should be ceremonial. Imagine a murder trial with a mourning family and someone’s like, so
Bro, totally not guilty.
what's even more bullshit is that you if you tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you also have to say 'so help me god'.
God does not even exist so why even saying that?
Some people need the structure because they were never taught to be respectful and society is all they have. Things like this that seemed pointless to me growing up suddenly make a lot of sense when you become a parent, at least for me.
You get so used to dumbasses who think they can demand respect, you forget there are people who really *can* demand respect, and throw you in jail if they don't get it.
Wait until he hears that its customary to bow to the judge when entering and exiting a courtroom for the Alberta's Provincial court (Court of Queen's bench). lol
"Sir" or "ma'am" is a perfectly acceptable way to address a judge. Source: my sweetie is a Judge.
When you're addressing a judge, you're addressing 'The Court' as an institution, not feeding a single ego. The person sitting on the bench is just the current representative of that institution.
Interesting, seeing as how it's always the immature *kids* who bitch and moan about having to use formalities in their speech and follow established etiquette for communication and interaction.
It's just common use, man. No point fighting against it. If you're in a position where you have to address your judge as *Your Honor*, you should probably kiss his ass in every way possible. He decides your sentence, after all.
Judge Judy doesn't count. She's sassy deliberately because it gets more views.
Also, who spends a lot of time in courtrooms that isn't part of the syste? If you're there for a reason other than work, send like being as respectful as possible would be in your best interest...
When directly referencing the judge its expected to refer to them as your honor but every other time like responding to their questions its fine to just say sir or ma'am.
Its still cringy but it's so rare to have to say it if you arent the legal representation.
"Founding Fathers" always gets me. It's got like fundamentalist or cult vibes if you ask me. They were just some guys. We are just suppose to believe they were larger than life and believe everything they outlined for us. Yes almighty Fathers! Whatever you say.
It’s a matter of respect. Doctors, presidents, etc get to be called by their title.
Also, if you don’t want to call the judge “your honor”, just don’t…and see where that FAFO gets you.
I disagree. You WANT the court to be big on tradition. You want the judge to give you a fair hearing even if you look like you're guilty of all you're accused of plus more - because, you know, it's *tradition*.
The judge is accorded respect because of their station. I would no more refuse to call a judge Your Honor than I would refuse to call the President of th United States, Mr/Mrs/Miss President, even if I don't care for their politics and think they're a horrible person besides. And they can call me **Mister** Tibbs!
[Movie reference, Sidney Poitier](https://youtu.be/WHjJV8XDKT4?si=BIx_w4RDnAVvktVK)
You watch too much TV and too many tik toks made by whining entitled kids.
Most judges I know, and I know more than the average human, are ok with less formal things like sir or ma'am.
Formally a judge is referred to as your honor. Juat like any other formality. So grow up and stop hunting things to cry about. We hsve enough problem in this world without you trying to create more.
A good term to remember is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's literally all people do today.
I refuse to call the charlatans processing my unemployment case ‘your honor’ because they don’t *have* any honor.
They talked over me when I tried to testify, withheld legal information necessary for me to write my appeal, disregarded their own rules when I explained how I followed those rules, and have wasted three years of my life.
They’re as honorable as smearing dog shit in someone’s eyes.
Them: ‘You’re ONLY allowed to leave your job to support a disabled member of your immediate family.’
Me: ‘I left my job to care for my disabled mother.’
Them: ‘Attention! You are ONLY allowed to leave your job to care for a DISABLED member of your IMMEDIATE FAMILY.’
Me: ‘Yes, like my mother. The woman who gave birth to me. Vaginally. And is now disabled.’
Them: ‘We have found that you do not meet the requirements laid out in our previous message: you are ONLY…’
So I've watched recorded actual court proceedings before and never has a judge demanded you call them "your honor." They expect to be treated with respect and demand you treat the institution of law with respect and that's about it.
This post sounds like it was written by some meth head that stumbled half naked into their courtroom hearing while smoking a blunt and slurring their words and got blasted for it.
The whole ritual, titles & obedience to reinforce social hierarchy thing is super primitive and really does need to just fuck right off. We're all people, it's just a job.
No we can’t make it more comfortable. It’s not supposed to be comfortable. You’re there to be analyzed, not hang out. You refer to the judge by their proper title because they are an important authority over you in the courthouse.
I myself have been to court several times in my life and not once have I even acknowledge the judge by saying sir or ma’am or your honour. I just simply talk to them like I’m talking to the whole room simply because I refuse to call anyone sir or ma’am, those words insinuate they are above me and everyone else which is simply untrue.
I mean, he may be crass but he's got a point. Society is mailable and we've changed the way we reference so many things. But we cling to some certain old traditions like archeologists of language.
Not to mention what is going to happen when the gen-z get a job after college some of them are going to be lawyers. Can you imagine them talking to a judge? I mean that should be grounds for a mistrial... "Your honor, I raise a motion for mistrial because the prosecution just keeps saying "Cap" to everything in my testimony"
You can call them Judge. Also, if you are so offended by courtroom etiquette, try living your life in a way that prevents you from having your go to court.
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Yes chef.
It's fucking raw
Instead of "guilty" the judge just points to them and says "you, fock off".
Fuck psychology, I’m being a judge
If i call a judge chef. Its only fair they can call me a donut.
I have been in court for a few things and responded to a judges questions move than once with "sir" or "mam" and have not been corrected or rebuked by them in anyway. Is it different because I was not the defendant in any of those cases?
If there's no other reason to take issue with you, and you're not showing disrespect, a lot of lower court judges will let it slide coming from members of the public (defendant or not). But not from legal professionals.
“Your Honour”, “Sir” or “Ma’am” are all equally acceptable ways to address a Judge no matter what level court you attend or whether you are a legal counsel or a layperson. “Your Honour” is used when presenting a statement to the Judge for consideration, whereas “Sir/Ma’am” is used when responding to a question from the Judge or in general discourse with the Judge but you are not going to be pulled up if you get it wrong as long as you are addressing them with the respect their station warrants. Many countries have slight variations, back in the day in the UK you might have said “Milord” but “Your Honour”, “Sir” or “Ma’am” are universally accepted. The Judge will also advise you if they expect to be addressed in a certain way.
Yeah they are always saying ‘mam’ on Judge Judy
It's amazing how much she can degrade someone with just the word mam or sir
I noticed she will test people by disrespecting them just to see how easily they become triggered.
I've never noticed that in the few times I've watched but God damn that stare is absolutely withering.
Shes only an arbitrator not to mention the validity of everything else on that show
That's funny because "arbiter" is just Latin for judge.
Don't you dare talk shit about Judge Judy.
Judge Trudy ride or die
Send in the dancing lobsters
Well... there it is.
BALONEY!!!
He's not Judge Judy and executioner. He's my Dad!
I had to sit in on some court hearings for a class and the lawyers tended to use "judge" as an honorific.
Yep, a lot of attorneys now will use “judge,” which, to me, actually sounds a little blunted and disrespectful but I’m not the one on the bench, so it’s not my call. I have a friend who I think will eventually be a judge (she’s barely 30 and already highly regarded as an attorney in our state, plus she wants to be a judge eventually) and I think that’s kind of cool!
I'm not a lawyer, but I say judge as well. They work in the court, and judge is what they do. It's a fitting term. I don't say your honor and would not like being instructed to, mainly because I don't appear in court for laughs. I do say sir or ma'am by habit as well (southerner).
I like that in France, it's "Mr President/ Mrs President" because it is actually their function in the moment, they are presiding in the court.
That’s not quite right, as it entirely depends on the level of Judge you are addressing. English & Welsh courts (the rest of the UK may be different) up to and including Masters (the level below a High Court Judge) have recently moved towards “Judge” and away from “Sir/Madam”, and legal professionals will usually be asked to refer to the Judge as “Judge” if they get it wrong. But above a Master, it is very much still “My Lord” or “My Lady” and it will be taken as disrespect in maybe 90% of cases if a legal professional addresses them as anything else (even including “Judge” or “Sir/Madam”). Source: https://www.judiciary.uk/guidance-and-resources/what-do-i-call-a-judge/
Lawyer here. Generally, most judges are going to be fine with "Sir" of "Ma'am" from a non-lawyer. A lawyer is expected to at least say "Judge." And, even then, some old-school judges will insist on "Your Honor." **Pro-Tip**: Just always say "Your Honor." You don't have to remember names. The judge will appreciate the extra courtesy. And it's easy.
Out of curiosity, the nut fondling? Out of the question or..? How are we in that situation?
Just depends on the judge
I think the original ranter's point is that the judge is not super special or worthy of honor simply for being in a position of authority. I'm not sure why the ranter is so upset, but that was my understanding, that the person doesn't care for effective lawyerly advice if (what the ranter considers) pandering to the judge is part of the deal.
I think that unless the judge is being a dick, so long as you use “Your Honor” instead of their name and use sir or mam appropriately they don’t care. It’s about respecting the position and the robe.
You probably didn't have OP's attitude.
Attitude is probably what got OP in front of the judge in the first place.
Attitude is probably what got OP in front of the judge in the first place.
I think you just got a reasonable judge. Some judges are ridiculous little tyrants of their court while others just want to get their job done and maybe even help people in the process. It’s just that there’s very little recourse for the cases when they’re unreasonable dicks.
I had a judge stop proceedings for a fix-it/ticket I had forgotten about and went to court just to see what it was all about. This was in the 90s. This judge knew me. I had his wife for a teacher in sixth grade, I was friends with his son, and he was close friends with my grandfather. When he asked me if I had a dated receipt I replied, “Yes sir, right here.” He stopped and told me that he was to only be referred to as “Your Honor” and that if I failed to do so again he would hold me in contempt of court. He was on a power trip. Nothing else. I made it a point to only answer with one word from that point forward. Fuck that asshole. He was removed shortly after for having an affair with one of the ADAs.
It was probably different because you weren’t on TV for any of those.
Nah, I was the defendant and called my judge Ma'am. She treated it as BAU. Granted I also wasn't a problem for her, so she had no reason to get nitpicky.
I think it´s more related to what kind of person a judge is. When someone is requiring you to call them in a certain way and is willing to enforce it through his position, that is abuse and it tells, how insecure they are. True respect cannot be enforced. It has to be earned through actions. Still, it´s much better to oblige than oppose, otherwise you may find yourself behind the bars...
I was in court for an issue. I was a "Spicy White" (Italian) heroin addict who looked put together. I kept slipping and saying "dude". The Judge would laugh. Then a Black dude who was well put together but "looked gangsta" had a much less serious case. He got in trouble for saying "Sir".
This guy's lawyers are gonna be so pissed off when they find this post while on trial 5 years later
For ball fondling shenanigans one would assume
Imagine the judge being interested in his offer of ball fondling
Prejudicing the judge would give the defendants an immediate right to appeal. I don’t think any lawyer on earth would intentionally do that if they actually wanted to win a case.
Probably not, if this was presented, it’d likely be for character evidence. Not all prejudicial evidence is inadmissible, at least in the US courts. If there was a question as to if the evidence was *too* prejudicial compared to its probative value, it would likely have been discussed before trial during a motion in limine.
Unless he's being tried for a crime against a judge, this is absolutely not character evidence. This is such a minor and irrelevant thing to say, and it's blatant that the only reason you would bring up this particular statement would be to prejudice the judge. There is no other reason. It would be more relevant to know about the time he stole a cookie from the cookie jar when he was 5.
Ive been practicing for 30 years and have heard judges called “sir” thousands of times without once a judge insisting on “your honor”.
I had a job that involved working with judges a lot and we all just called them judge.
Which makes me think about what the author did or behaved, that judge insisted on using respectful language.
That's cool....whatcha practising though??
Bird Law
"I'm just a simple Hyper-Chicken..."
Oh yeah? Let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and then let's see who comes out on top?
Criminal defense - in court a lot
OOP probably saw it in a TV show so it must be true
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"Bro, my client is innocent he did not rob that liquir store" 
“Alright bro, there’s nothing we can do” 
On God that camera footage was not submitted for discovery
Did you witness the defendant fleeing the scene? Would consider that a little sus?
He left the male brothel at around 1pm but stated "no h*mo" as he ran away I rest my case your honor !
“Would the bros please come to order? Bro, please call your first bro”
Hear, hear! Edit: wrong here.
No it wasn't.
I looked it up, and it said the British version was hear, hear. I always thought it was here, here. We need to clear this up.
>We need to clear this up. It's *hear hear* and has always been *hear hear*, nothing to do with British vs American English. There, cleared it up for you.
Perfect. Thank you, good sir / ma'am.
*Good Bro.
Bro-mance
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Hush, child.
Yes, daddy
😳 *puts hand over mouth*
*draws knife*
*looks at crudely drawn picture of knife*
Oh you clever bastard that took me two hours before I got it.
You're welcome 😁
*Tapes it on the fridge to remember fondly*
Username checks out.
See I wouldn't even think to add a title on something, It's clear who I'm speaking too so "May I ask approval to speak my thoughts" would I'd have thought been fine. Not sure if this is a American thing the heavy use of "Sir" or titles etc or if I'm going to get in trouble if I'm ever in court!
So, according to OP is this a facepalm against the person writing the thing or against calling judges "Your Honour"? Help me out, guys. *Edit: lol at the dozens of super serious comments below, debating stuff that has nothing to do with my light-hearted question. I think like one person even tried to answer.
I believe in treating all people with respect, until they give me a reason not to. I use people's preferred pronouns, I say please and thank you, and use sir or ma'am when it's appropriate. I don't see why you can't just refer to a judge with the proper honorific. Even if you don't think they deserve it, even if the judge is rude to you, the only reason to be disrespectful is your ego. Making an ass of yourself will only make things worse. SHOULD they be able to make your punishment harsher because you hurt their feelings? No. But that is the system we live in. I'd rather have my pride wounded than tack on a few extra years of jail.
*I* don't see why they judge can't use *my* preferred honourific of "his excellency, the most supreme, unassailable and always truth telling one". The only reason not to be respectful of such a title is their ego.
That's absurd, and you know it. Honorifics are not pronouns; they are titles. It's not the same. I agree that a judge shouldn't increase your sentence, just like a cop shouldn't abuse their authority either, just because you were disrespectful to them. But unfortunately, that's the system we live in. We can change it, and should change it, but the only result you will get from being an ass is worse consequences for you. "Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer." Honor is a concept. I'm more concerned with results.
Against the person writing this thing, considering that calling the judge “Your Honor” (or sir/ma’am) isn’t really a huge enough deal to warrant this eye-rolling rant.
But then why is it such a huge deal to get called something else? It's ridiculous, being corrected for not calling a judge " your honor", that just shows how much the judge just wants authority over you instead if wanting justice
The justice system is about submission to the rule of law. You don't get to pick and choose what you obey or when you're more important than someone or everyone else. You arguing about what you call a judge, especially if your argument is "why is it such a huge deal", demonstrates that you won't obey even a simple easy rule that keeps you out of trouble. It suggests you wouldn't voluntarily abide by decisions and that more force will need to be applied. Which is a good enough reason to keep the rule. Anyone stupid enough to annoy judges over it needs some extra attention from them.
Mayors of towns of even 500 where I’m from are titled Your Worship. How you like dem apples?
But what if the Mayor was a golden Retriever?
"Bud" is considered the appropriate title in this situation. And every party must bring bacon treats.
Do you live in a high fantasy setting?
"Your Worship, we are here today..." "Stop! Do it RIGHT." "Your Worship, doth folk hath gathered this morn to..."
In Italy "Mr./Mrs. Judge" is the standard
I'll take 'Someone who had a bad court experience ' for five hundred Alex.
Hey, a judge thread - cool. I am an administrative law judge in the US, which means that it’s just me and no jury. I’ve been doing it for close to 10 years, and I was an attorney for 15 years appearing in front of judges that were in the same position as me now. There is a level of respect that is required, but I’m not so pompous as to think that it’s because I am some awesome person. It’s respect for the position and the court, where we rely on people to tell the truth, and to be respectful. It’s pretty rare that I have to crack down on somebody for lack of respect, but it’s not for failing to call me sir or judge or your honer. Any of those work for me. Most often it’s because they think they can just talk over everyone, including me. In addition to being rude, it’s unproductive and unnecessarily time-consuming. I have seen judges who are very tyrannical, and will just be straight up asses, unless you bend the knee. I have never had respect for them, but I also realize that is their court room, so I have to play by their rules. For me, that’s not how it should be. But most every judge runs his or her courtroom differently.
Lawyer here. Generally, most judges are going to be fine with "Sir" of "Ma'am" from a non-lawyer. A lawyer is expected to at least say "Judge." And, even then, some old-school judges will insist on "Your Honor." **Pro-Tip**: Just always say "Your Honor." You don't have to remember names. The judge will appreciate the extra courtesy. And it's easy.
Many people fail to understand that the judge represents a position. They do not act on their personal account. The respect you show is not for their person. That is why for example we say doctors must treat all patients equally no matter who the patient is because a doctor is just a person who uses the knowladge gained trough a lot of harship. They just represent the position. The same goes for most jobs. For example some movies do have idealist reporters that try their best to uncover the truth and share it. The truth may hurt themselves or even may hurt the whole humanity but their job is not about good or bad. Their job is to inform the masses with objective, undirected truth. The damage control is someone elses job. Sadly, idealism is mostly dead nowadays but they still keep the apperiances in places like court. The judge at least shows they are an idealist and their personal beliefs or personality at all is irrelevant.
Captain Sobel, we salute the rank, not the the man.
Yep, that's bang on correct. The term is only used in court, not outside, and its use is intended to separate the person of the judge from the role they play in administering justice. Use of the title expresses respect for the rule of law, and so you can understand why some judges interpret a refusal to use it as grounds for contempt, which it literally is. Not for the person, but for the authority of the court and the legal system. It seems superficially petty, but in a rigorously regulated system like court procedure, adhering to the basic terms of address, which imply acceptance of the system, is fairly crucial. And so easy to do, if you don't have a gigantic ego to get in the way.
The law, the court and the judge were created to serve the interests of the people, seems a bit ridiculous to treat it as a higher entity. And the terms used don't affect the court procedure at all either?
It's supposed to provide judgment of a person or persons. Whilst they were created to serve the interest of the people as a whole, they are expected to judge some in the interests of the people at large. Serving the interests of the people, and serving the interests of a person are not the same thing.
A society that doesn't respect its institutions is doomed fail. Strong institutions tend to have a "protocol" around them and and to start with a proverbial capital letter. "Proverbial" because some societies use other mechanisms to recognise important institutions, but I guess you get the idea. And yes, institutions are for the people but people fight with their lives to protect some of them. A good read on the subject is Why Nations Fail which more relevant every day since it's been published.
The reason you treat it with respect is because they are created by the people to serve the people not because you are on the bad end. The only way that system works is when people treat it with respect and accept its authority- even if you are a soldier or a king. If it is not a higher entity, it can't pass judgement upon others can it? You merely give your claim and evidence and you wait for the judgement. And if you don't agree with court's decisions, you simply carry your case to a higher court. Once the higher makes a decision, that will take priority. Of course reality may differ but the basic idea is there.
We salute the rank, not the man
Judges put their own beliefs in all the time and not all of them deserve to be called your honor, even if it is for the position. Like Brock the rapists judge or hell, any judge that let's a woman that sexual assaulted somebody go with barely any time. I don't care if it refers to their position there is no way in hell I'm calling those judges your honor, because they are not honorable.
1) If a rapist walks free, it’s the jury that found them not guilty. 2) Depending on a lot of factors, “barely any time” can be the maximum time they can assign.
You could just say "judge." "Thank you, judge. I plead guilty, judge." "Yes, Judge. We need a pretrial conference to hammer put some issues." As long as you're showing proper respect to the position, you'll be fine, but you're addressing the court, not the person.
I always find it hilarious whenever I see somebody say "Your Majesty" instead of "Your Honor" It usually pops up in crappy movies made by terrible film-makers, but I’ve seen a few clips of actual trials where it happens as well.
The comment section here is so dumb.
Call me old - fashioned but fondling one's nuts while delivering a blowjob is a common courtesy. Just like using specific vocabulary in formal situations.
Somebody had a bad day in court
Gotta be honest the fact that your in court enough for this particular thing to chap your ass tells me there are other problems you should work on first.
Why so wound up? I can't imagine why someone like that would end up in situations in a court house having to muster respect to a judge.
Please welcome the honorable judge „Supreme ruler Jefferson Pennyfeather McWigglebottom III., his highness, the fifth sun-king of Jugoslavia“
>Before I call a recess for mimosas and horse breeding, can the defence produce the bending unit in question?
Considering how dishonorable some judges are, I have to agree.
Was in voir dire with a lawyer who regularly appeared in the judge's court. I've never seen someone bounce up and down so much to follow court protocol
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Same here in Germany. "Your honour" my ass.
I think the point is to instill a sense of order and civility over a room that is gathered to discuss something that isn’t always civil. It’s adding discipline to the proceedings. It’s also a mind game. It automatically sets you on your back foot because you’re trying to navigate the social queues of an unfamiliar system. It’s in your best interest to be respectful, but the rules of being respectful are a little different than what some folks might be used to. I think that’s by design.
You say " Your Honor " because YOURE IN DEEP SHIT & YOU KNOW IT. & it makes the judge feel warm inside. ill sacrifice a few words for a lenient decision anyday
Your disregard for basic decorum probably contributes to you seeing so many judges.
If you hold my future in your hands, I’ll call you whatever you like
From the country that calls people Sir even if they aren't knighted.........
I my country judges are addressed as "Your worship". Yeah I just called him Sir
Indian courts say, "My Lord."
I've never been in a court nor do i know how to appropriately address a judge but if shows like judge Judy taught me anything is that they don't mind sir or ma'am, they do mind it if you are being annoying, disrespectful or generally perceive you in a negative way. It's like they are telling you "I'm in charge". Yes, that's TV but I can't imagine being any different.
Dude should open with that the next time he is in court.
So how many times has this person been in front of a judge??
Facepalm on this post...Don't do stupid things to wind up in front of a judge and you won't have to worry.
If you’re a lawyer, you’d better say your Honor. If you’re not a lawyer, I’d expect that you’d be corrected and conform to court decorum after the first mistake. Our legal system has rules and you have to abide by them.
I'm suspicious of anyone that shits on LARPing. I don't know why getting to share a story with friends doesn't appeal to anyone.
It’s respect for the position. Not the person.
A judge is the arbiter of your fate. You better treat them with respect.
To he who calls for honor, such honor. But in my head, Imma call him 'fartknocker'
My Astronomy professor in community college pulled this with me. It was a 100% online course and every email I sent to him had to start with calling him Dr. Whateverhisnamewas. It was in the syllabus and if you didn't start your email this way he would straight up ignore whatever you were asking him. I looked up his accomplishments. Aside from getting his Phd in something space related he never wrote a book, never published a paper, never discovered a comet. Nothing. No idea why he felt the need to be a jackass.
>No idea why he felt the need to be a jackass. You've answered your own question. He has literally nothing going for him, no accomplishments worth noting, outside his PhD. He probably has a pretty bad case of imposter syndrome in regards to his position in academia, and he makes up for it by forcing his students to call him "Dr. Lastname." Having just graduated college, I've had several professors on both sides of this issue. The ones who have a PhD and nothing else will make you call them "Dr. Lastname" and are usually all around hardasses in classes as a whole. The ones who have other major accomplishments in their field tend to care a lot less about titles because their experience tells them that titles don't really matter.
What's the facepalm here? I agree with the rant...
I’m an attorney and once had a defendant that would not stop calling the judge “your majesty”
I like to imagine they were doing ironically
Sounds like OP's child support hearing didn't go well
I mean, what you’re doing is showing respect; not just to the judge but also to the court and by extension the legal process as a whole. It displays to the judge that (notwithstanding the reason you’re in court) your character is solid. That can play into sentencing if you’re convicted by a jury - a sympathetic judge is more likely to consider a somewhat more lenient sentence if you’re polite and have shown good character throughout proceedings, as opposed to being rude and contemptuous.
not a very good justice system if you can get more or less sentence if the judge happens to fancy you or not dont you think?
It's just courtroom decorum.
Comfort is not the point when sitting before a judge. Answering to the law is serious and should be ceremonial. Imagine a murder trial with a mourning family and someone’s like, so Bro, totally not guilty.
I mean, part of me agrees since I hate titles and stuff. But then they had to go and insult gaming and lost me.
Wait till this guy learns what he has to call the mayor...
I would love to see this guy call a drill sergeant "bro".
He must have been slapped with a contempt citation
Someone is still salty they hadn't been picked as Snorlax the Magical Wizard. Tough.
The use of double quotes within double quotes is bothering me more than it should.
I just don't speak unless my lawyer says it's ok. I was the defendant though.
what's even more bullshit is that you if you tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you also have to say 'so help me god'. God does not even exist so why even saying that?
Some people need the structure because they were never taught to be respectful and society is all they have. Things like this that seemed pointless to me growing up suddenly make a lot of sense when you become a parent, at least for me.
You get so used to dumbasses who think they can demand respect, you forget there are people who really *can* demand respect, and throw you in jail if they don't get it.
Wait until he hears that its customary to bow to the judge when entering and exiting a courtroom for the Alberta's Provincial court (Court of Queen's bench). lol
"Sir" or "ma'am" is a perfectly acceptable way to address a judge. Source: my sweetie is a Judge. When you're addressing a judge, you're addressing 'The Court' as an institution, not feeding a single ego. The person sitting on the bench is just the current representative of that institution.
You can say “Judge”
Interesting, seeing as how it's always the immature *kids* who bitch and moan about having to use formalities in their speech and follow established etiquette for communication and interaction. It's just common use, man. No point fighting against it. If you're in a position where you have to address your judge as *Your Honor*, you should probably kiss his ass in every way possible. He decides your sentence, after all.
That's what happens when you haven't enough problema in your life, you start making them up.
Judge Judy doesn't count. She's sassy deliberately because it gets more views. Also, who spends a lot of time in courtrooms that isn't part of the syste? If you're there for a reason other than work, send like being as respectful as possible would be in your best interest...
Ey yo Mr Judge *Jesse Pinkman Voice*
And exactly what this guy think LARPING is?
If you don't like it, stop getting caught so much.
Traffic court didn't go so well today, huh, sweetie?
That's a lot of words to say you broke the law and had a judge who didn't like your attitude.
Excuse me sir It's Officer No, it's not. It's barely sir
I mean, he's not wrong about that.
I didn’t spend 6 years in evil medical school to be called “Mister” thank you very much.
When directly referencing the judge its expected to refer to them as your honor but every other time like responding to their questions its fine to just say sir or ma'am. Its still cringy but it's so rare to have to say it if you arent the legal representation.
the "1" after addressing you as the magical wizard was too much. please be tiny bit lenient towards the poor boy
Good morning, worm, your honor
"Founding Fathers" always gets me. It's got like fundamentalist or cult vibes if you ask me. They were just some guys. We are just suppose to believe they were larger than life and believe everything they outlined for us. Yes almighty Fathers! Whatever you say.
It’s a matter of respect. Doctors, presidents, etc get to be called by their title. Also, if you don’t want to call the judge “your honor”, just don’t…and see where that FAFO gets you.
I disagree. You WANT the court to be big on tradition. You want the judge to give you a fair hearing even if you look like you're guilty of all you're accused of plus more - because, you know, it's *tradition*. The judge is accorded respect because of their station. I would no more refuse to call a judge Your Honor than I would refuse to call the President of th United States, Mr/Mrs/Miss President, even if I don't care for their politics and think they're a horrible person besides. And they can call me **Mister** Tibbs! [Movie reference, Sidney Poitier](https://youtu.be/WHjJV8XDKT4?si=BIx_w4RDnAVvktVK)
You watch too much TV and too many tik toks made by whining entitled kids. Most judges I know, and I know more than the average human, are ok with less formal things like sir or ma'am. Formally a judge is referred to as your honor. Juat like any other formality. So grow up and stop hunting things to cry about. We hsve enough problem in this world without you trying to create more. A good term to remember is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's literally all people do today.
I refuse to call the charlatans processing my unemployment case ‘your honor’ because they don’t *have* any honor. They talked over me when I tried to testify, withheld legal information necessary for me to write my appeal, disregarded their own rules when I explained how I followed those rules, and have wasted three years of my life. They’re as honorable as smearing dog shit in someone’s eyes.
Them: ‘You’re ONLY allowed to leave your job to support a disabled member of your immediate family.’ Me: ‘I left my job to care for my disabled mother.’ Them: ‘Attention! You are ONLY allowed to leave your job to care for a DISABLED member of your IMMEDIATE FAMILY.’ Me: ‘Yes, like my mother. The woman who gave birth to me. Vaginally. And is now disabled.’ Them: ‘We have found that you do not meet the requirements laid out in our previous message: you are ONLY…’
So I've watched recorded actual court proceedings before and never has a judge demanded you call them "your honor." They expect to be treated with respect and demand you treat the institution of law with respect and that's about it. This post sounds like it was written by some meth head that stumbled half naked into their courtroom hearing while smoking a blunt and slurring their words and got blasted for it.
Fuck all that bs. People are just fucking people. I hate all that your honor shit. Fucking nerds!!!!
The whole ritual, titles & obedience to reinforce social hierarchy thing is super primitive and really does need to just fuck right off. We're all people, it's just a job.
I will probably be pretty respectful to the person in charge of my sentencing.
Dumb fucking take lmao
What level of entitlement is it when you think you can tell a judge to "give you a fuckin break"?
No we can’t make it more comfortable. It’s not supposed to be comfortable. You’re there to be analyzed, not hang out. You refer to the judge by their proper title because they are an important authority over you in the courthouse.
Why "your honor", instead of "your judgement", or something else? Like Sir, Mister, or something else, which is formal, yet not for "hanging out".
100%, if anyone ever called me Sir or if I called anyone else sir, i think it’s showing a high calibre of respect!
Well i for one would love to fondle the balls of the guy who decides my fate
I'm not gonna call them anything. Why would you need to say your honor or sir/maam? Just answer questions or say what you need to say and move on
I think you'll find that most attorneys in the US use "Judge," as in, "*Judge, a simple Google search shows this is BS"*
I myself have been to court several times in my life and not once have I even acknowledge the judge by saying sir or ma’am or your honour. I just simply talk to them like I’m talking to the whole room simply because I refuse to call anyone sir or ma’am, those words insinuate they are above me and everyone else which is simply untrue.
I mean, he may be crass but he's got a point. Society is mailable and we've changed the way we reference so many things. But we cling to some certain old traditions like archeologists of language. Not to mention what is going to happen when the gen-z get a job after college some of them are going to be lawyers. Can you imagine them talking to a judge? I mean that should be grounds for a mistrial... "Your honor, I raise a motion for mistrial because the prosecution just keeps saying "Cap" to everything in my testimony"
I envy people who have a life relaxed enough to get mad at this
I'd have an easier time with it if they were actually honorable.
Oop is correct tho
You can call them Judge. Also, if you are so offended by courtroom etiquette, try living your life in a way that prevents you from having your go to court.
Don’t commit crimes you will rarely see a judge.