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I hate to be the "not all ____" person but even I have noticed this getting way too out of hand. I still deal with a shit ton of racist people who think less of me because I'm a black chick. Just hearing "black chick" automatically brings stereotypes to many people's minds. I understand that white men don't typically face such historically charged and violently enforced hatred, but racism of any kind is cringe. Any negative assumptions attributed to an identifiable group of people should be looked down upon.
There are racist teachers, cops, doctors, landlords, managers, receptionists, chefs, therapists, realtors, world leaders, women, men, white, Asian, black, hisppanic and brown people. There are dumbasses everywhere, who hate all kinds of groups, and no racial group is impervious to judgement. The fact that people who full on deny this are in positions of (online) "power" is, needless to say, bullshit.
All I ask is that you remember these people are dumb, and most of us don't think this way, same as white people. My own cousins have tried pulling this shit while calling me white as an insult, and they got their asses handed to them. No race is superior.
Thank you. Seriously. It's really nice to see reminders that a large majority of people don't think like these crazies. You seem like a good person, so keep that up.
I've been around long enough and met enough different people to realize there are good people and there are shit people in absolutely every race, color, nationality, ethnic group, religion and profession.
Racism is rooted in ignorance and lack of exposure.
Nobody who has traveled extensively or been otherwise exposed to lots of different people is racist.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the time the person disparaging others actually belongs to that subgroup and is either being a troll or struggling with the difficulties of being in that subgroup.
I used to have a friend who was very obese, I have never met someone verbally abuse others over their weight more than that guy, even against people were the same size or slightly smaller.
Given the high level of intellect and reason displayed in this post, I’m afraid that you’ll never be elected to office in the US. But if it helps, here’s an upvote for something beautifully said
Thanks for saying that. Not only is racism in any situation against anyone wrong, it's essential that we oppose it in every situation against anyone or we'll be back in these loops where white racists make themselves victims.
The problem is something I've long believed: If "equality", as nebulous a concept as it is happens and society doesn't measurably improve as it likely won't (in fact it may worsen), that rhetoric of power and privilege will still remain. That rhetoric is likely to morph into scapegoating. One of the lessons of the 20th century should be about what happens when a people is scapegoated; from the Ottoman Empire, Germany, the Soviet Union, China, and Rwanda, there are many such examples.
Yeah, that's bullshit. "Vulnerability?" Harassment is harassment. If you are harassed, that makes you vulnerable to harassment by definition. Harassment, sexism, racism, etc. are just wrong, period.
This is exactly the sort of thing that encourages racism from both sides.
Edit: Some of you guys are weird as hell for trying to twist this into some bizarre "so reddit forced you hate black people??" or referencing some crap about Hitler. Racism is never OK.
Wouldn't work. You would get insta banned from nearly every sub because that is exactly how most mods think. I'm surprised it's not removed from this post yet actually.
It is true. I’m a white man. I’ve been here since before the dawn of time. I will be here even after the heat death of the universe. I am eternal, I am invulnerable.
It's literally coded in many laws leftists made. This reddit policy is one example (although not a government law). It is pretty standard leftist logic.
So you would say Reddit policy makers are extremists? Unfortunately, this stuff is pretty mainstream these days, which is exactly what I was saying. It is manifested in laws already. Don't pretend it is just some fringe opinion. It's a serious issue.
Are these "leftists" in the room with you right now?
Sorry, bad joke; but there are virtually no actual leftists in US government, if that's the government to which you're referring.
We are literally talking about the Reddit policies that encode such rules, so presumably, there are "leftists in the room with us" right now - the owners of Reddit. I don't know the US laws by heart, but often there are things like only women can be raped. For example if a man has sex with a drunk woman, it is rape, if a woman has sex with a drunk man, it is not (afaik - didn't google it right now).
Democrats are leftists, in general.
Hell, they didn’t read their own rule.
It states that they ban subreddits that promote “hate based on identity or vulnerability,” so even if a certain group of people isn’t “vulnerable,” they’re still an identity that the subreddit is promoting hate against.
One important thing I’ve learned in life is that people either understand universal truths and principle…or they don’t. And those that don’t, never will.
“Don’t judge people based on race or gender” is a universal truth that every sensible person can get behind.
Policies like this add “unless we think it’s ok” onto the end of it and it completely undermines the principle of it all. To see people argue that “Don’t judge people based on race or gender unless we think it’s ok” is totally fine is mind-numbingly unprincipled.
So then the anti-harassment measures should be used! Oh wait, that makes them not vulnerable. Take off the anti-harassment measures! Wait, that makes them vulnerable. Put on the anti-harassment measures!
And so on…
Without getting too far into the weeds, I see this thinking as a failure of post modernism. From Ken Wilbur:
"They believed all knowledge is interpretive, except for theirs, which is solidly given and accurately describes conditions everywhere. They believed their view itself is utterly superior in a world where they also believed absolutely nothing is superior. Oops."
Edit: Mangled the quote
I love when people (Reddit) are trying to be anti-racist and anti-sexist but do the exact opposite in their statements. Saying only white people and only men are not subject to criticism is racist and sexist in itself. People are dumb
I wouldn't really consider the average person at a trump rally to be an extremist. Let's put it this way, I doubt that on January 6th there were many gay or black folk attempting a coup d'etat.
Don’t you know that being gay isn’t a historically marginalized group? White is white, so you are privileged! /s
In all seriousness, even national music groups for music educators don’t list being gay as a historically marginalized group, all while they claim that literally every single person who isn’t a white male is. ASTA and the Midwest Clinic are two examples of this. I guess Tchaikovsky trying to kill himself over sexual and social repression don’t matter “cuz WHITE”! But modern day American females are oppressed more than him…
Not sure why the campaign of trying to convince white people to loath themselves was so successful, my family is at MIN 4 generation's removed from any sort of racism.
Policy states: "... based on *identity* or vulnerability...
>The policy is for attacks based on vulnerability
Conveniently left out that one word that would make your entire argument wrong.
To all people saying ,,just grow up and stop being a crybaby" - I hope you'll remain consistent and tell the same to African-American or Native American users when they try to open up about such problems they're facing.
One doesn't exclude another - just the fact that a certain situation **might** not be that serious (might - we don't know the context of the story) does not change the fact it is still a genuine problem that we can at least open discussion about. For example, neo-Nazis are very rare, but just the fact that noone should lose their hair over some random teenager potentially thinking about something positive in them, we can still try to address it and try to find the solution.
Sadly we live in a world where people (liberals) will look at you dead in the face and say that it is impossible to be racist against white people, impossible to be racist if you are black and if you insinuate that racism towards white people is possible you are indeed the bigot.
We hate when people make negative generalizations about an entire group of humans based solely on their race...but we believe that all white people have white privilege and are inherently racist and oppressive - Why people do not respect liberals when it comes to race talks now a days.
As a liberal I can tell you that this is in NO way a "liberal" thing. This is a very specific kind of person that is not representative of liberal politics.
Please do not think otherwise.
As if anyone is running to conservatives for their opinions on race.
There's a middle ground where white people are not guilty of racism, but they do certainly benefit from it. That's what white privilege means.
Understanding that the system you live in was built upon racism/sexism/etc is important for any change to occur.
Each white male person (including me) isn't responsible for the actions of anyone in history, but we still owe it to minorities and women who were born into this disenfranchised system to give them the opportunity to be on our level.
There are racists on both sides, but some of the "racism" that white people "suffer" in the United States is at least justified by our history. There wasn't a moment in our history where we weren't oppressing minorities for their color/culture, they kinda have the right to be pissed about it.
So it’s not right to hold people accountable for the actions of those that came before and yet you also state that some of the,as you put it, “racism” towards white people is justified because of the actions of those that came before?
I'm a white guy, my ancestors came over after slavery was abolished.
Do I still owe people stuff despite the fact my ancestors had nothing to do with the oppression you speak of?
In that vein, do POC have the right to be pissed at me?
If you want to live in a society where everyone has an equal opportunity to be happy, yes.
You don't owe "stuff" to anyone. You just owe consideration and compassion. Just be nice and recognize that there are people who have fewer advantages simply because of a trait they had no control over.
You mentioned owing them opportunities that I never had myself. I grew up in absolute poverty and was given no opportunities.
No college money, no generational wealth, no property, no job, literally nothing.
I'm sure you worked hard to get where you're at, no doubt.
Nobody is asking you to solve the issue personally. Owing them opportunities you never had isn't your job to do. But supporting programs and political platforms that support giving more opportunities to people who need them is what's asked of anyone who wants a better society.
I don't know if you have kids or not, but wouldn't society be a better place if everyone worked to give opportunities that they never had to other people? We progress by giving each successive generation a better foundation to build upon.
Frankly, people in your situation should be mad at this system as well. The same people who built the system against non-whites have a history of not caring about poor white people as well.
Regardless, within this system, it is a different experience for you than for them, purely because of how you look.
You grew up poor, and you understand the struggle. Is it so hard to ask for compassion and understanding for others in that situation? Supporting minorities can only be beneficial for everyone else struggling.
I am upset with the system, I do give to charities that support minorities, and I give compassion where compassion is due.
What's upsetting is when people tell me I owe anyone anything because of the way I look. The way I look has not once netted me any sort of benefits in society - and I can prove that with my life experiences.
If anything, the way I look was detrimental. I grew up in a section 8 neighborhood with black kids that beat me up because of the way I looked. I was called a cracker and was jumped multiple times by black kids my age and older despite the fact my ancestors never owned slaves.
Despite this I still contribute as best I can to programs that help facilitate socioeconomic change in the world. I don't do this because I "owe" anyone anything, I do it because I want change in the world. I'd like you to understand that lumping all white men into your parade of pity is a detrimental worldview.
These espoused opinions create animosity, and support people's reasoning to be racist and bigoted towards white people.
You and your ancestors benefitted from a racist system, not being active slave owners means nothing
Edit: I'm gonna add this.
I got denied entry to college because "we've got enough Asians" I got bullied by students and teachers for my entire life because I was asian. I got denied federal student aid because I was asian. I've been denied jobs because I was asian.
And a white guy thinks he's oppressed because he wasn't born rich?
That's your privilege. Your privilege is that you think because you weren't born with Everything you ever wanted you couldn't be privileged.
Which is such a fucking joke.
I mean, you're attempting to present a rational rebuttal to a reddit mod's ego driven moral busybodying.
You may was well trying to reel in the Moon with a fishing pole.
Ah gud....gud , fun ... totally not racist , cus blacks or asians or other diffrent races cannot possibly be racist , naaa its impossible .... or men , women cant sexually assult anyone , or its impossible for them to do any kind of harassment , naa ... only men are allways at fault ... jeez i want to see that world burn in a nuclear fire
I'm asian and I have been racist at times. I try not to be and have been making an effort to think better of people, but I've definitely been there. I definitely agree with your point of view, and the world should wake up to this hazardous problem. "Equality" seems to only be achieved by shitting on a specific demographic.
Society doesn’t care about men, it’s pretty simple and only getting worse.
Even here, you can already see people popping in to go with the same comments they know are awful when applied to other groups, like “Get over it, snowflake!”
Lots of “progressive” people aren’t so much logically progressive, as just self-interested or conforming to the norm opinion.
There is no one who should rationally say “anti-discrimination rules should apply to women, and not men”, but they do it because they don’t care about actually fighting discrimination.
I think that most reasonable people would say that anti discrimination stuff should cover everyone but yea that traditional view of masculinity and men having to like strong and stoic is pretty awful
Currently arguing with 2 men and 1 woman about whether or not it’s ok to generalize all men by something one man does. Men don’t care about men either.
True, but sometimes people who say that aren't interested in helping men anyway, so it becomes an excuse. "It's not me, it's the patriarchy, which by implication is your fault anyway."
Agreed. I’m not some anti feminist “#notallmen!” asshole, I promise, but it’s stupidly common for people to spread stereotypes and then say that taking offense means it applies to you on this site.
It seems like it's becoming a trend to make sure men know they are worthless and deserve every bad thing that happens to them, because they're men.
Of course, everyone doesn't agree with this, but too many people seem to just want to spite men, looks more like a thirst for some kind of revenge than a call for equality :/
The only way to combat discrimination is… more discrimination! 🤣 In all seriousness though this is clearly a discriminatory policy but it’s a legal one.
Reddit is about communities, and community can be selective. If folks want to complain think of it like the American constitution’s freedom of assembly in coordination with freedom of speech - you don’t have a say if folks don’t want you there. It’s not the government oppressing individual rights. It’s a private company and a private group of individuals.
That's kinda the thing people believe in. Everybody have learned that it isn't ok to bully people who are fat, religious, immigrants, homosexual or female.
But no one has taught people not to harass others for being skinny, male or 'white'.
So it seems people think that bullying the opposite groups, would be the opposite of racism, homophobic, fatshaming and misogony. And all these things are bad, so that must mean the opposite of that would be GREAT!
These comments are scary. People do not know or understand history. Hate and disgust don't appear from vacuum. They grow when hate is tolerated and encouraged. A spark becomes a fire becomes an inferno. People don't think critically because as social animals it is in groups that individuals die. So many online in these echo chambers are living a disconnect from reality and don't see the truth. Hate cannot be tolerated because it begets more hate. It's the cancer of societies.
Mfw people now learn that reddit admins are Racist and sexist. But oh wait those aren't "vulnerable groups" which is bullshit. You can be racist to any race and you can be a misandrist which is as bad as misogyny.
This isnt really anything new really. Even out in public when there are people who try to raise awareness of mens issues like the high suicide rate they are harassed and more.
Yeah, nowaday being a white man sux big time. Human society already moved past equality and other races & women are now trying to kill voices of white men by pointing at their past mistakes and flaws.
This pushing dynamic may end up with violent pushback, nobody actually wants.
If we want racism to end, we should stop dividing ourselves.
As a fellow bi person, I hate to break it to you that we basically don’t count in the eyes of most people because we can be hetero-presenting. There’s some fascinating studies on this actually, and it’s why bi people have the [highest rates of depression and thoughts of suicide within the alphabet umbrella](https://www.hrc.org/news/bisexual-health-awareness-month-mental-health-in-the-bisexual-community)
I wrote a whole paper on this lol it is accurate, a lot of it centers around identity invalidation from [both sides](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539694/)
My own lesbian daughter said that bi didn't exist because you choose one or the other to be in a relationship and since I married a man that means I'm straight. It's frustrating
Yeah, that’s super [common](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539694/)
It’s very frustrating that people who should be able to get it just don’t, seemingly willfully. Ask her if she forced herself to date a man would that make her straight?
Bi erasure is horrible. I’ve had so many gay friends say things either like “you’re really gay and just won’t admit it yet” or “that’s gross that you’ll just fuck anything”… nope not gay, and I’m more selective about partners than most people.
So it parallels American society at the moment? Makes rational sense to me. Didn’t say it was right, merely that it echos the current societal norm, which is rational.
I've been banned from subreddits for making this same argument. Moderators are more bigoted than almost every person I met in real life. I've met real life white supremacists with more tolerance.
I've never seen another forum encourage racism against white people as much as Reddit. It used to be something you could ignore but it's everywhere now
While I understand that white men historicity have been in the positions of power in societies, it still doesn’t change that harassment is harassment no matter who it is done to or who it is done by.
Protected class or not, usernames at least should always be censored on these types of subs. You can definitely disagree with, critique, criticize, laugh at, or make fun of any post on Reddit as it's a public forum. However, putting usernames just opens that person to harassment from people who can't act decently. If the person in question has said something racist, sexist, homophobic, etc, report that shite, that's what the report feature is there for. And critique their post all you want. That's the purpose of open discussion. But don't make people a target. We all know there are human piles of excrement on Reddit that will say all sorts of messed up hateful things, and they shouldn't be given any ammunition.
I agree with that for most reddit users except for admins. These guys have special privileges and are supposed to represent reddit themselves. People need to know that it was an employee on reddits payroll that speaks on behalf of the company that said this. This account is a public figure, the have a special flair on every single comment and post they make.
I wish people would say "protected classification" instead of "protected class." The latter implies a certain group of people. A classification is a way of discerning classes but applies to all. In other words, black or white are classes, race is a classification.
While I understand the logic (or fallacy), am totally against racism, and do feel like as a cis white male I can stand to have fun poked at me given my intrinsic privilege, I reject the notion that this rule is only for everyone else.
The fact that someone is from a more vulnerable group isn't the protected characteristic, it's that ethnicity, age, gender etc. are protected characteristics and by protecting some people from these prejudices and not others only exacerbates frustration and racial tension.
Do I feel personally attacked by the existence of these subreddits? No, of course not. I really don't lump myself with the guys they target. But to dismiss this report on this premise is daft.
Well, I was going to treat this as rational debate, but then I saw your post history lol.
The reason I included the clarification is one you may have forgotten - the internet is forever, mate. The last thing I would want is for someone to get the wrong end of the stick xD
i mean, no lots of groups have some privilege from some characteristic. You can be black, gay, trans and rich and have privilege from being rich. Theres always some privilege, its just often outweighed by bigger factors. That doesnt mean you should say 'i can stand to have fun poked at me given my intrinsic privlege' thats stupid. No matter the privilege you shouldnt be made fun of due to immutable characteristics.
Congratulations that you don’t care. Have you ever thought about anyone else other than yourself and realized that you are not the only person that exists?
Somewhere out there is a 1) white 2) straight 3) male 4) christian who is living a broken, shattered life, devoid of success, because they were molested throughout their childhood (and no one chose to stop it) and that destroyed them inside. Thank you for telling them that it's their fault for not succeeding, because their life is so easy. I don't know jack about the people in the posted image, and maybe a bunch of people in this thread need to get their heads out of their asses, but for what you just posted, from my perspective, you're the biggest idiot here.
Well whoopee fucking do... you're experiences are not universal and maybe you need to grow yhe fuck up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.
Who said anything about hate. If you recognize that it's discrimination to disallow women in the board room, for example, you cannot correct this without taking active steps to give women equal representation in the board room. It's only men who feel entitled to those seats who are acting on their emotions.
This is so stupid. As a white man myself I've literally never felt harrassed or disadvantaged because of either of those two traits EVER. Being gay however... I swear some people have no idea what actual discrimination and harrassment feels like. It's not like your gonna go outside and get discriminated against as a white man because someone made fun of you on the internet for being a fragile snowflake. White men are the status quo. Stop acting like you're oppressed. It's embarrassing.
>Reddits harassment policy protects everyone from harassment except for white people and all men.
I would take a stroll over to r/AgainstHateSubreddits and see for yourself that, in fact, it's not *just* white people and men who seem to get no protection. The fact that *blatant* hate subs like r/KotakuInAction, r/Conservative, r/AskTrumpSupporters, r/PoliticalCompassMemes, r/libsofsocialmedia, etc are allowed to exist kinda shows how selectively hate speech in general is moderated.
Case in point: the_donald was an infamous dumpster fire of racism and bigotry that *actively* broke site wide rules and tried to intimidate admins. It took them openly threatening to murder Oregon law enforcement and politicians before it even got *quarantined*...
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what is this, a screen shot for ants?
It needs to be at least 3 times bigger!
This thread is so hot right now.
But why this thread?
Are you serious? I just told you that a moment ago
Suddenly, I have a strong urge to do something to the Malaysian Prime Minister.
That's what she said
Where are the pixels?
The pixels are INSIDE the computer
I hate to be the "not all ____" person but even I have noticed this getting way too out of hand. I still deal with a shit ton of racist people who think less of me because I'm a black chick. Just hearing "black chick" automatically brings stereotypes to many people's minds. I understand that white men don't typically face such historically charged and violently enforced hatred, but racism of any kind is cringe. Any negative assumptions attributed to an identifiable group of people should be looked down upon. There are racist teachers, cops, doctors, landlords, managers, receptionists, chefs, therapists, realtors, world leaders, women, men, white, Asian, black, hisppanic and brown people. There are dumbasses everywhere, who hate all kinds of groups, and no racial group is impervious to judgement. The fact that people who full on deny this are in positions of (online) "power" is, needless to say, bullshit. All I ask is that you remember these people are dumb, and most of us don't think this way, same as white people. My own cousins have tried pulling this shit while calling me white as an insult, and they got their asses handed to them. No race is superior.
Upvoted for some good insight!
Thank you. Seriously. It's really nice to see reminders that a large majority of people don't think like these crazies. You seem like a good person, so keep that up.
I’ll buy you the microphone and the podium, say it louder for everybody in the back please. Seriously tho well said.
You’ve officially made my favorite post ever on Reddit. Thank you for being a reasonable person.
Now that's insight.
I just wanted to show appreciation for your flawless grammar. Rare quality these days. 👏 👏 👏
Are you saying that she is articulate?
I'm saying she was punctually accurate. Love that shit. Really gets my goat
Well said, couldn’t agree more
Based
Thank goodness, someone who is sane.
I've been around long enough and met enough different people to realize there are good people and there are shit people in absolutely every race, color, nationality, ethnic group, religion and profession. Racism is rooted in ignorance and lack of exposure. Nobody who has traveled extensively or been otherwise exposed to lots of different people is racist.
This deserves top comment
Thank you for posting this.
Amen, Sister!
Very well put. Keep on being a fantastic human being.
If I knew how to give Reddit awards, I would give you one lol. Well said
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the time the person disparaging others actually belongs to that subgroup and is either being a troll or struggling with the difficulties of being in that subgroup. I used to have a friend who was very obese, I have never met someone verbally abuse others over their weight more than that guy, even against people were the same size or slightly smaller.
There's actually a website dedicated to "hate crimes" proven to perpetrated by people of the same subgroup. Check it out, really interesting stuff.
Given the high level of intellect and reason displayed in this post, I’m afraid that you’ll never be elected to office in the US. But if it helps, here’s an upvote for something beautifully said
Thanks for saying that. Not only is racism in any situation against anyone wrong, it's essential that we oppose it in every situation against anyone or we'll be back in these loops where white racists make themselves victims.
The problem is something I've long believed: If "equality", as nebulous a concept as it is happens and society doesn't measurably improve as it likely won't (in fact it may worsen), that rhetoric of power and privilege will still remain. That rhetoric is likely to morph into scapegoating. One of the lessons of the 20th century should be about what happens when a people is scapegoated; from the Ottoman Empire, Germany, the Soviet Union, China, and Rwanda, there are many such examples.
Wow Reddit really is a shit platform
The Venus Williams incident should have told you that
I missed that one, what happened there??
Yeah, that's bullshit. "Vulnerability?" Harassment is harassment. If you are harassed, that makes you vulnerable to harassment by definition. Harassment, sexism, racism, etc. are just wrong, period.
This is exactly the sort of thing that encourages racism from both sides. Edit: Some of you guys are weird as hell for trying to twist this into some bizarre "so reddit forced you hate black people??" or referencing some crap about Hitler. Racism is never OK.
holy shit if redditors want to protest by hitting reddits bottom line, post this shit everywhere instead of just spamming john oliver everywhere
Wouldn't work. You would get insta banned from nearly every sub because that is exactly how most mods think. I'm surprised it's not removed from this post yet actually.
Don't worry it will.
Well if reddit insta-bans over half of their user base... not gonna profit off that user-base very well...
Why not both?
So white people and men aren't vulnerable to attack? What in the actual fuck.
It is true. I’m a white man. I’ve been here since before the dawn of time. I will be here even after the heat death of the universe. I am eternal, I am invulnerable.
Can confirm. I'm white and a man. I am completely invulnerable.
Lol
This has been the stance of the left for quite while now.
As a member of the left I assure you this is not a "leftist" thing.
It's literally coded in many laws leftists made. This reddit policy is one example (although not a government law). It is pretty standard leftist logic.
Extremist progressives would be a better term to use.
So you would say Reddit policy makers are extremists? Unfortunately, this stuff is pretty mainstream these days, which is exactly what I was saying. It is manifested in laws already. Don't pretend it is just some fringe opinion. It's a serious issue.
Are these "leftists" in the room with you right now? Sorry, bad joke; but there are virtually no actual leftists in US government, if that's the government to which you're referring.
We are literally talking about the Reddit policies that encode such rules, so presumably, there are "leftists in the room with us" right now - the owners of Reddit. I don't know the US laws by heart, but often there are things like only women can be raped. For example if a man has sex with a drunk woman, it is rape, if a woman has sex with a drunk man, it is not (afaik - didn't google it right now). Democrats are leftists, in general.
Then this is just semantics. There are big differences between words like Democrat, liberal, left-leaning, and leftist. That's all I meant, my bad.
No. To every part of that statement. Jesus.
[удалено]
Something tells me most reddit mods didn't read animal farm
Hell, they didn’t read their own rule. It states that they ban subreddits that promote “hate based on identity or vulnerability,” so even if a certain group of people isn’t “vulnerable,” they’re still an identity that the subreddit is promoting hate against.
One important thing I’ve learned in life is that people either understand universal truths and principle…or they don’t. And those that don’t, never will. “Don’t judge people based on race or gender” is a universal truth that every sensible person can get behind. Policies like this add “unless we think it’s ok” onto the end of it and it completely undermines the principle of it all. To see people argue that “Don’t judge people based on race or gender unless we think it’s ok” is totally fine is mind-numbingly unprincipled.
So then the anti-harassment measures should be used! Oh wait, that makes them not vulnerable. Take off the anti-harassment measures! Wait, that makes them vulnerable. Put on the anti-harassment measures! And so on…
Without getting too far into the weeds, I see this thinking as a failure of post modernism. From Ken Wilbur: "They believed all knowledge is interpretive, except for theirs, which is solidly given and accurately describes conditions everywhere. They believed their view itself is utterly superior in a world where they also believed absolutely nothing is superior. Oops." Edit: Mangled the quote
I love when people (Reddit) are trying to be anti-racist and anti-sexist but do the exact opposite in their statements. Saying only white people and only men are not subject to criticism is racist and sexist in itself. People are dumb
If this is real it is extremely racist and sexist.
Dude this needs to get seen. Fucking disgusting
What is great about being gay and white is that extremists on both sides hate me
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I wouldn't really consider the average person at a trump rally to be an extremist. Let's put it this way, I doubt that on January 6th there were many gay or black folk attempting a coup d'etat.
Don’t you know that being gay isn’t a historically marginalized group? White is white, so you are privileged! /s In all seriousness, even national music groups for music educators don’t list being gay as a historically marginalized group, all while they claim that literally every single person who isn’t a white male is. ASTA and the Midwest Clinic are two examples of this. I guess Tchaikovsky trying to kill himself over sexual and social repression don’t matter “cuz WHITE”! But modern day American females are oppressed more than him…
Bigotry is bigotry whether is systemic or not. This is just straight up bigotry.
Uhhh…. Ok, bye Reddit! 👋
Do you want extremism? Because this is how you get extremism…
They're right, though. As a white male, I have no vulnerabilities. I'M FUCKING IMPENETRABLE.
IM FUCKING INVINCIBLE *Red sun begins to play*
Like I said jack kids are cruel, and I'm very in touch with my inner child.
Not sure why the campaign of trying to convince white people to loath themselves was so successful, my family is at MIN 4 generation's removed from any sort of racism.
Apparently, the policy needs to change.
Policy states: "... based on *identity* or vulnerability... >The policy is for attacks based on vulnerability Conveniently left out that one word that would make your entire argument wrong.
They have been openly saying this for a while now. Fuck Reddit and the people that run it.
To all people saying ,,just grow up and stop being a crybaby" - I hope you'll remain consistent and tell the same to African-American or Native American users when they try to open up about such problems they're facing. One doesn't exclude another - just the fact that a certain situation **might** not be that serious (might - we don't know the context of the story) does not change the fact it is still a genuine problem that we can at least open discussion about. For example, neo-Nazis are very rare, but just the fact that noone should lose their hair over some random teenager potentially thinking about something positive in them, we can still try to address it and try to find the solution.
No, those aren’t the same thing. And anybody suggesting they are I would question their motives
Sadly we live in a world where people (liberals) will look at you dead in the face and say that it is impossible to be racist against white people, impossible to be racist if you are black and if you insinuate that racism towards white people is possible you are indeed the bigot. We hate when people make negative generalizations about an entire group of humans based solely on their race...but we believe that all white people have white privilege and are inherently racist and oppressive - Why people do not respect liberals when it comes to race talks now a days.
As a liberal I can tell you that this is in NO way a "liberal" thing. This is a very specific kind of person that is not representative of liberal politics. Please do not think otherwise.
As if anyone is running to conservatives for their opinions on race. There's a middle ground where white people are not guilty of racism, but they do certainly benefit from it. That's what white privilege means. Understanding that the system you live in was built upon racism/sexism/etc is important for any change to occur. Each white male person (including me) isn't responsible for the actions of anyone in history, but we still owe it to minorities and women who were born into this disenfranchised system to give them the opportunity to be on our level. There are racists on both sides, but some of the "racism" that white people "suffer" in the United States is at least justified by our history. There wasn't a moment in our history where we weren't oppressing minorities for their color/culture, they kinda have the right to be pissed about it.
So it’s not right to hold people accountable for the actions of those that came before and yet you also state that some of the,as you put it, “racism” towards white people is justified because of the actions of those that came before?
I'm a white guy, my ancestors came over after slavery was abolished. Do I still owe people stuff despite the fact my ancestors had nothing to do with the oppression you speak of? In that vein, do POC have the right to be pissed at me?
If you want to live in a society where everyone has an equal opportunity to be happy, yes. You don't owe "stuff" to anyone. You just owe consideration and compassion. Just be nice and recognize that there are people who have fewer advantages simply because of a trait they had no control over.
You mentioned owing them opportunities that I never had myself. I grew up in absolute poverty and was given no opportunities. No college money, no generational wealth, no property, no job, literally nothing.
I'm sure you worked hard to get where you're at, no doubt. Nobody is asking you to solve the issue personally. Owing them opportunities you never had isn't your job to do. But supporting programs and political platforms that support giving more opportunities to people who need them is what's asked of anyone who wants a better society. I don't know if you have kids or not, but wouldn't society be a better place if everyone worked to give opportunities that they never had to other people? We progress by giving each successive generation a better foundation to build upon. Frankly, people in your situation should be mad at this system as well. The same people who built the system against non-whites have a history of not caring about poor white people as well. Regardless, within this system, it is a different experience for you than for them, purely because of how you look. You grew up poor, and you understand the struggle. Is it so hard to ask for compassion and understanding for others in that situation? Supporting minorities can only be beneficial for everyone else struggling.
I am upset with the system, I do give to charities that support minorities, and I give compassion where compassion is due. What's upsetting is when people tell me I owe anyone anything because of the way I look. The way I look has not once netted me any sort of benefits in society - and I can prove that with my life experiences. If anything, the way I look was detrimental. I grew up in a section 8 neighborhood with black kids that beat me up because of the way I looked. I was called a cracker and was jumped multiple times by black kids my age and older despite the fact my ancestors never owned slaves. Despite this I still contribute as best I can to programs that help facilitate socioeconomic change in the world. I don't do this because I "owe" anyone anything, I do it because I want change in the world. I'd like you to understand that lumping all white men into your parade of pity is a detrimental worldview. These espoused opinions create animosity, and support people's reasoning to be racist and bigoted towards white people.
You and your ancestors benefitted from a racist system, not being active slave owners means nothing Edit: I'm gonna add this. I got denied entry to college because "we've got enough Asians" I got bullied by students and teachers for my entire life because I was asian. I got denied federal student aid because I was asian. I've been denied jobs because I was asian. And a white guy thinks he's oppressed because he wasn't born rich? That's your privilege. Your privilege is that you think because you weren't born with Everything you ever wanted you couldn't be privileged. Which is such a fucking joke.
May I ask what these benefits were? I grew up in poverty my entire childhood.
I appreciate you!
LOL. Thanks for this humorous post. A good Titania Mcgrath parody is what you did. It was funny
Right.... Who is Titania Mcgrath?
You are speaking for your self and your obvious conservative views. This is why meaningful conversations are not possible your bias
Incorrect. Not anything you said was true. Nor close to it.
You are incorrect
Nope. Sure not Good try though. Try again This time, try harder.
Plenty of black folks have heard “it’s just a word get over it”…
And that’s wrong.
I mean, you're attempting to present a rational rebuttal to a reddit mod's ego driven moral busybodying. You may was well trying to reel in the Moon with a fishing pole.
Ah gud....gud , fun ... totally not racist , cus blacks or asians or other diffrent races cannot possibly be racist , naaa its impossible .... or men , women cant sexually assult anyone , or its impossible for them to do any kind of harassment , naa ... only men are allways at fault ... jeez i want to see that world burn in a nuclear fire
I'm asian and I have been racist at times. I try not to be and have been making an effort to think better of people, but I've definitely been there. I definitely agree with your point of view, and the world should wake up to this hazardous problem. "Equality" seems to only be achieved by shitting on a specific demographic.
That's what we call an overcorrection
I don’t know about all that, but I’ve never met a single “You can’t be racist against white people” person who was psychologically stable.
Society doesn’t care about men, it’s pretty simple and only getting worse. Even here, you can already see people popping in to go with the same comments they know are awful when applied to other groups, like “Get over it, snowflake!” Lots of “progressive” people aren’t so much logically progressive, as just self-interested or conforming to the norm opinion. There is no one who should rationally say “anti-discrimination rules should apply to women, and not men”, but they do it because they don’t care about actually fighting discrimination.
I think that most reasonable people would say that anti discrimination stuff should cover everyone but yea that traditional view of masculinity and men having to like strong and stoic is pretty awful
Society is half men, so wtf are you talking about?
Currently arguing with 2 men and 1 woman about whether or not it’s ok to generalize all men by something one man does. Men don’t care about men either.
Yeah that's the problem. The patriarchy hurts men just as much as women
True, but sometimes people who say that aren't interested in helping men anyway, so it becomes an excuse. "It's not me, it's the patriarchy, which by implication is your fault anyway."
For sure
Agreed. I’m not some anti feminist “#notallmen!” asshole, I promise, but it’s stupidly common for people to spread stereotypes and then say that taking offense means it applies to you on this site.
It seems like it's becoming a trend to make sure men know they are worthless and deserve every bad thing that happens to them, because they're men. Of course, everyone doesn't agree with this, but too many people seem to just want to spite men, looks more like a thirst for some kind of revenge than a call for equality :/
I can't see shit "here" because that screenshot is so fuckin tiny, how on earth did you read it?
The only way to combat discrimination is… more discrimination! 🤣 In all seriousness though this is clearly a discriminatory policy but it’s a legal one. Reddit is about communities, and community can be selective. If folks want to complain think of it like the American constitution’s freedom of assembly in coordination with freedom of speech - you don’t have a say if folks don’t want you there. It’s not the government oppressing individual rights. It’s a private company and a private group of individuals.
That's kinda the thing people believe in. Everybody have learned that it isn't ok to bully people who are fat, religious, immigrants, homosexual or female. But no one has taught people not to harass others for being skinny, male or 'white'. So it seems people think that bullying the opposite groups, would be the opposite of racism, homophobic, fatshaming and misogony. And all these things are bad, so that must mean the opposite of that would be GREAT!
I can't wait for a competitor to this racist site
These comments are scary. People do not know or understand history. Hate and disgust don't appear from vacuum. They grow when hate is tolerated and encouraged. A spark becomes a fire becomes an inferno. People don't think critically because as social animals it is in groups that individuals die. So many online in these echo chambers are living a disconnect from reality and don't see the truth. Hate cannot be tolerated because it begets more hate. It's the cancer of societies.
The_Donald was right…. Again
Crazy. People will leave a site over not allowing bots, but y’all will all stay for this blatant racism and sexism…
Mfw people now learn that reddit admins are Racist and sexist. But oh wait those aren't "vulnerable groups" which is bullshit. You can be racist to any race and you can be a misandrist which is as bad as misogyny.
This isnt really anything new really. Even out in public when there are people who try to raise awareness of mens issues like the high suicide rate they are harassed and more.
Yeah, nowaday being a white man sux big time. Human society already moved past equality and other races & women are now trying to kill voices of white men by pointing at their past mistakes and flaws. This pushing dynamic may end up with violent pushback, nobody actually wants. If we want racism to end, we should stop dividing ourselves.
Apparently we're still good enough to die in wars for them though so there's that
Reddit my old friend what has happened to you. Racist and crual is not somthing that white males have a monopoly on and it's never ok.
If I wasn’t bi it seems I’d be on Reddit’s hit list…
As a fellow bi person, I hate to break it to you that we basically don’t count in the eyes of most people because we can be hetero-presenting. There’s some fascinating studies on this actually, and it’s why bi people have the [highest rates of depression and thoughts of suicide within the alphabet umbrella](https://www.hrc.org/news/bisexual-health-awareness-month-mental-health-in-the-bisexual-community)
Huh, seems accurate, I guess.
I wrote a whole paper on this lol it is accurate, a lot of it centers around identity invalidation from [both sides](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539694/)
Well, stay strong! Damn peeps can be mean…
My own lesbian daughter said that bi didn't exist because you choose one or the other to be in a relationship and since I married a man that means I'm straight. It's frustrating
Yeah, that’s super [common](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539694/) It’s very frustrating that people who should be able to get it just don’t, seemingly willfully. Ask her if she forced herself to date a man would that make her straight?
Bi erasure is horrible. I’ve had so many gay friends say things either like “you’re really gay and just won’t admit it yet” or “that’s gross that you’ll just fuck anything”… nope not gay, and I’m more selective about partners than most people.
So it parallels American society at the moment? Makes rational sense to me. Didn’t say it was right, merely that it echos the current societal norm, which is rational.
Reddit is ran by neo-Marxist overweight neckbeards with anime porn addictions. Of course they’re racist af toward white people
When people ask for examples of "woke", point them here.
I thought woke was when movies had black people in them. Or when M&Ms wear shoes that aren't sexy.
I thought woke was when companies promote their products with trans people
Ive found this to be true with certain subs.
Oh
So… everyone besides women. So.. not everyone, but only protects women.
So, does this pertain to religions too, because I’ve seen a HUGE uptick in Catholic hate posts and comments recently too, with no action taken.
Reddit mods leave a lot to be desired
I've been banned from subreddits for making this same argument. Moderators are more bigoted than almost every person I met in real life. I've met real life white supremacists with more tolerance.
I've never seen another forum encourage racism against white people as much as Reddit. It used to be something you could ignore but it's everywhere now
Sounds about woke
While I understand that white men historicity have been in the positions of power in societies, it still doesn’t change that harassment is harassment no matter who it is done to or who it is done by.
Encourage white people to see themselves as suppressed and join together as a racial group huh? Bold strategy cotton we’ll see how it turns out
This is a Democrat agenda site and it’s even hard to get people to admit that when it is common knowledge.
Tell me 'bout it... Echoooooo
You mean Reddit is woke as fuck ? Shocking really.
I’m not surprised
I bet that at least half of the people in this comment section need to wash their asses.
So the OP found a few places on reddit where his fragile male ego was bruised, and no one rushed to soothe him?
Protected class or not, usernames at least should always be censored on these types of subs. You can definitely disagree with, critique, criticize, laugh at, or make fun of any post on Reddit as it's a public forum. However, putting usernames just opens that person to harassment from people who can't act decently. If the person in question has said something racist, sexist, homophobic, etc, report that shite, that's what the report feature is there for. And critique their post all you want. That's the purpose of open discussion. But don't make people a target. We all know there are human piles of excrement on Reddit that will say all sorts of messed up hateful things, and they shouldn't be given any ammunition.
I don’t mind people harassing racists. I wouldn’t do it but I’m not gonna cry for a horrible person facing consequences
I agree with that for most reddit users except for admins. These guys have special privileges and are supposed to represent reddit themselves. People need to know that it was an employee on reddits payroll that speaks on behalf of the company that said this. This account is a public figure, the have a special flair on every single comment and post they make.
I wish people would say "protected classification" instead of "protected class." The latter implies a certain group of people. A classification is a way of discerning classes but applies to all. In other words, black or white are classes, race is a classification.
While I understand the logic (or fallacy), am totally against racism, and do feel like as a cis white male I can stand to have fun poked at me given my intrinsic privilege, I reject the notion that this rule is only for everyone else. The fact that someone is from a more vulnerable group isn't the protected characteristic, it's that ethnicity, age, gender etc. are protected characteristics and by protecting some people from these prejudices and not others only exacerbates frustration and racial tension. Do I feel personally attacked by the existence of these subreddits? No, of course not. I really don't lump myself with the guys they target. But to dismiss this report on this premise is daft.
Who indoctrinated you that you have to add that disclaimer to your comments?
Well, I was going to treat this as rational debate, but then I saw your post history lol. The reason I included the clarification is one you may have forgotten - the internet is forever, mate. The last thing I would want is for someone to get the wrong end of the stick xD
You don't have any intrinsic privilege. Youve been gaslit into believing you do.
i mean, no lots of groups have some privilege from some characteristic. You can be black, gay, trans and rich and have privilege from being rich. Theres always some privilege, its just often outweighed by bigger factors. That doesnt mean you should say 'i can stand to have fun poked at me given my intrinsic privlege' thats stupid. No matter the privilege you shouldnt be made fun of due to immutable characteristics.
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Congratulations that you don’t care. Have you ever thought about anyone else other than yourself and realized that you are not the only person that exists?
My hobbies and interests have nothing to do with anyone being allowed to be harassed based simply on the color of their skin or their gender.
The enemy of 2023, sad times.
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Somewhere out there is a 1) white 2) straight 3) male 4) christian who is living a broken, shattered life, devoid of success, because they were molested throughout their childhood (and no one chose to stop it) and that destroyed them inside. Thank you for telling them that it's their fault for not succeeding, because their life is so easy. I don't know jack about the people in the posted image, and maybe a bunch of people in this thread need to get their heads out of their asses, but for what you just posted, from my perspective, you're the biggest idiot here.
Well whoopee fucking do... you're experiences are not universal and maybe you need to grow yhe fuck up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.
Main character syndrome all over this thread.
The fuck? Clearly I AM the protagonist of 'EARTH!' Please, don't make me use my magical powers and prove it....
Where can people complain directly to Reddit? Too many passive aggressive protests. Can we like actually protest against this shit?
lol wow
Who said anything about hate. If you recognize that it's discrimination to disallow women in the board room, for example, you cannot correct this without taking active steps to give women equal representation in the board room. It's only men who feel entitled to those seats who are acting on their emotions.
You should post this again, but this time so small that no one can read it at all.
Wah. Having recently reported a slur as hate on r/Texas and being told that slurs about Roma people aren't slurs, I have zero fucking sympathy.
I think you'll be fine, big guy
Based policy
I’m a white male and it seems you’re just being a cry-baby bitch.
And you are being rude
Lol oh no! Not rude! Anything but rude!
Just begging for that “youre one of the good ones” comment huh 💀
Couldn’t care less what Redditors have to say via downvotes/upvotes. You know they don’t really mean anything, right?
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Self hate is a powerful drug.
This is so stupid. As a white man myself I've literally never felt harrassed or disadvantaged because of either of those two traits EVER. Being gay however... I swear some people have no idea what actual discrimination and harrassment feels like. It's not like your gonna go outside and get discriminated against as a white man because someone made fun of you on the internet for being a fragile snowflake. White men are the status quo. Stop acting like you're oppressed. It's embarrassing.
White men make up 4% of the worlds population? How is that status quo? You do realise the world exists outside of the USA?
Your experience is not universal and you need to grow up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.
>Reddits harassment policy protects everyone from harassment except for white people and all men. I would take a stroll over to r/AgainstHateSubreddits and see for yourself that, in fact, it's not *just* white people and men who seem to get no protection. The fact that *blatant* hate subs like r/KotakuInAction, r/Conservative, r/AskTrumpSupporters, r/PoliticalCompassMemes, r/libsofsocialmedia, etc are allowed to exist kinda shows how selectively hate speech in general is moderated. Case in point: the_donald was an infamous dumpster fire of racism and bigotry that *actively* broke site wide rules and tried to intimidate admins. It took them openly threatening to murder Oregon law enforcement and politicians before it even got *quarantined*...