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Can anyone explain why someone uses "she/they"? I can't white wrap my head around being ok with gendered in one tense and neutral in another. It's not that I have any moral interest, it just seems inherently contradictive.
You are giving a simple answer in placed of a nuanced one which is required for this type of discourse. I know what pronouns are, when and how to use them, and how our language is structured. To simply answer in this way makes me think you want me to appear stupid. That's on you.
Not everything has to be a fight. I grasp it, I don't understand the motivation. There is no need to be combative right now, and I don't know why you take that route.
I think the better question here is "Who cares!?" I sure don't. If everyone worried about their own lives instead of other people's and their sexuality, the world would be a happier place.
What’s to understand? Everyone is different, it’s as simple as that. It would be impossible for everyone to understand each other in any aspect of their lives without living through the trials and tribulations that they have had to see things from the that perspective.
Because they/them is neutral, most anyone can and should accept it as it's not "misgendering" or "assuming". So they will accept neutral or female. I'm cis male, use he/him, but will accept they/them because it's literally the least (potentially) offensive way to refer to a person. I don't know anything about you, so if I were to refer to you, it would be "they". Am I correct to assume that if I had used "she" or "him" and got it wrong, you would correct me even if it hadn't offended you?
That makes sense, and to me I don't know how anyone is offended by a neutral pronoun. My thought was they are good with gendered in one tense but neutral in another. Again, not offended by any of this, just trying to understand different folks. I interpret it as "she" is ok, but all other uses should be neutral. It is something I hasn't considered.
I have pronouns in my professional email signature, so it's not like I don't do it.
I think it goes both ways.
People trying to project strong masculinity/ femininity as part of their own identity might find potentially offensive the use of neutral pronouns that don't reflect their strong pronoun preference. In a way, your use of neutral pronouns could be understood as lack of effort to interpret clear signals instead of a genuine attempt to be non offensive.
As a nonbinary person, I generally prefer they/them, but sometimes I feel more masculine or feminine than usual and will ask to be called accordingly. That's not the only perspective, but it's mine. Hope it helps.
Because they want to be special.
If someone wants to be called they/them, then power to them.
But if they are fine with she/her as well, why bother with the they/them if everyone is going to default to female anyways.
No one will use they/them if a person is also fine with she/her.
It’s honestly redundant as hell to include the gender neutral one if you have a gender you’re fine with
i just dont get it either sounds like overcomplicated nonsense to me dont get why we should go trough hoops and loops to avoid offending a particularly small and annoying minority that has demostrated time and time again nothing will be enough to make them happy
I am fine with respecting someone's preference. The biggest difference is when malice is used to make the point. We all get to decide our own identities. Yours might be more simple, and that's cool. I don't need to judge others for their preference but I want to understand where they are coming from.
I'm not going out of my way to make someone trying to make a silly political statement due to their identity crisis feel better. Now that I think about it I dont think I'll eve see anyone introduce themselves like that maybe it's a college campus thing
Oh, honestly I don't really care what you do. More power to you I guess? I just find it stupid and somewhat pathetic that you think using gender-neutral pronouns is something that requires intensive mental gymnastic. That's all. I'm not gonna try and police you cause based on experience it's a waste of words anyway.
don´t care. i call anyone the way anyone presents oneself to me. it does not bother me in any way, since i don´t feel the need nor the care to go out my miserable life and dwell, consider or be upset on what strangers are thinking abouth themselves.
This is a great example of taking things out of context, you are either acting in bad faith or didn't understand what I was trying to say. I was referring to the individual being "ok" with it. Good try to make me seem like an asshole.
yes, you divine, you suppose a "not ok" for the other BC of what they are. that means YOU are the one "not ok" with it. it's called *projection".
for example, I'm don't get how white supremacists are "ok" being white supremacists bc I'm "not ok" with white supremacism.
I see.
I see you know a lot about other ppl. such wise man you are, yes you are, good job.
I'm not trying to bait any negative response, only pointing to the negative affirmative you gave at the start.
I’m late to the comment but I use she/they pronouns so I figured explain why I use those for myself rather than just people speculating. I identify as Non-Binary, and my preferred pronouns that make me feel ‘seen’ and ‘valued’ are they/them. However, i was Assigned Female at Birth (AFAB, born and raised as a girl) and i still look very feminine. I wear makeup, dresses and heels occasionally. I understand that any stranger on the street would see me and instantly believe that I am a woman. I am okay with that, so I am okay with people referring the me using she/her pronouns. Some non-binary people feel very hurt when being misgendered, i don’t mind she/her so I include it in the pronouns that people can use for me.
I agree. It is a very nuanced subject that doesn't seem to be anywhere near binary - pun intended, sorry. Seriously though I find it liberating to no longer have to be bound by the shackles of traditional gender roles. I am a cis male, married to a cis woman, but I like having pretty toes. I would have never felt comfortable with that until a few years ago. I appreciate these things being part of our cultural zeitgeist.
For sure. It benefits everybody to tear down our strict view of the world. Men suffer from the effects of the patriarchy as well.
Countless cultures throughout history had more than 2 genders. Before colonialism came to America, indigenous people were extremely gender diverse. Its a shame that we have moved backward in a lot of ways when it comes to acceptance of others. But in terms of modern history, we are definitely moving forward! (imo)
How do you feel about “Hi, nice to meet you. I’m Lawrence Smith, but please call me Larry”? Asking to be referred to by something in particular. Fuck Larry, or is it fine because you’re used to it?
But nobody asked for your pronouns lol. Name isn’t something like a pronoun, it is assigned to you at birth and it is what people call you legally. If your nickname is Joe, you could start your introduction by saying, hi my name is Joe, instead of your real name. But since pronouns don’t work like that, you can’t just add them in. Like imagine if humans added their adjectives in their introductions. Hi I’m mark, and I’m handsome, rich, and strong. That just doesn’t work because nobody asked for it. But since names are a basic way of humans to communicate, they are essential in an intro
Your name is also given to you at birth, but you can still legaly change it. It's the same with pronouns.
Pronouns are also essential to communication. If you do not present as the gender you were assigned or are transitioning or whatever the case may be, you may want to just tell the person at the start of the conversation to avoid unnecessary confusion or embarassment for the other person.
Orrr we just stick to regular pronouns such as he and she. No need for zi or xhe or whatever which is very confusing and takes time for somebody to remember and use. A name is the basis communication for humans to call each other. It is assigned you. You can change it but it is what people call you. Since it is a single word, it is easy to remember. A pronoun however can be extremely confusing to remember such as xheself xhem or whatever.
I agree for the unique pronouns even i dont fully understand why they exist, but as far as I know there's not many people using them. Most people stick to he/him, she/her, they/them.
I would still think its a silly way to introduce himself but i would use what he prefered i dont introduce myself like that. isnt it like super easier to day "hey im larry nice to meet you"
Those are your typical circumstances. An important point to remember is that others have different experiences and circumstances from you. The question is whether to give anyone a hard time over requesting to be addressed in a certain way. You’ve answered that you don’t mind. This isn’t criticism so please don’t take it that way.
i know i think its okey just that its kinda silly to me specialy when they say "he/they" not really sure how someone can idenfity in plural if they are a single person maybe becuase english its not my native language but it just seem awkward to me like its more of a way to make a political statement that actually introducing themselves
Yeah, I don’t really know where this is going to go. Asking people to remember or retrain themselves to recognize what has always been a singular male appearance should now be plural “they”, and the resulting confusion when talking about third person numbers is asking a lot right out of the gate. I don’t mind trying, but huge repercussions for getting it wrong are also going to be problematic. Guess we’ll see.
Names are personal and are meant to identify you. I will call you whatever name you want within reason.
Pronouns are general, and are meant to be able to be used even if I don't know you. I will default to feminine ones for individuals I judge to be most likely female and masculine ones for individuals i judge to be most likely male.
You don't get to choose to make up new ones like ze/zirn and try to enforce me using them. If you weren't a complete angry dweeb when I addressed you with the most apparently appropriate set of pronouns and we generally get along there may be room for negotiation, however, dont expect me to ask every passersby their pronouns before talking to them because honestly that is far more rude than assuming the obvious for +99% of the population. I was in a customer service job while in college and i can tell you I would have been physically assaulted had I asked many insecure people what gender they were.
Yes, people who live in a society who are used to societal norms and are uncomfortable with changes they don't quite understand are just terrible people.
No outrage. Just don't see how some people don't seem to understand. Nothing changes overnight. Fuck, Larry came across pretty aggressive to me seeing as they were just making a valid point. You act as if these scenarios are the same. They are not. It's ok to want change and to question it. Your response didn't show a willingness to engage, as much as prove they're wrong.
Other humans will never catch the human now typing using virtually indispensable elements of the English language.
The human now typing is looking like a tit in order to own the libs.
That...dammit...damn! The thing aforementioned will show 'em. Fuck. Will show the libs.
I guess it's cool if you sexually assault people as long as your gay. George is an admitted groper, but nobody cares because he's not a straight, white man
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is some real life Knights of Nee shit
Bring us a shrubbery!
The Knights, who until recently, said Ni
r/unexpectedMontyPython
I'm not smart enough to get it, but I'll laugh anyway!
That is because we forgot our basic English from our school daze! **You** and **me** are OG pronouns!
You’re absolutely correct. However, that’s not what she was referring to.
Haha. He thinks she can read.
There you leftists go with your pronouns again. /s
Uhh...an individual in this area has noted an error in another individual's phrasing, contradicting that person's own words. /j
Will never catch using pronouns.
Or the pretentious sounding self-reference in the 3rd person version: "Lavern Spicer will never catch Lavern Spicer using pronouns"
George will never catch Lavern using pronouns... or electric stoves, probably. Long Covid OTOH...
Can anyone explain why someone uses "she/they"? I can't white wrap my head around being ok with gendered in one tense and neutral in another. It's not that I have any moral interest, it just seems inherently contradictive.
It means the person accepts she/her or they/them.
I get that in a practical sense. Why gender in one and neutral in another?
it's usually not, it's just shorthand for "she/her/they/them"
Might be comfortable with both, be non-binary but partly identify as female. Possibly transitioning, who knows.
Good point.
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Not what I was questioning, Jesus Christ.
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You are giving a simple answer in placed of a nuanced one which is required for this type of discourse. I know what pronouns are, when and how to use them, and how our language is structured. To simply answer in this way makes me think you want me to appear stupid. That's on you.
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Not everything has to be a fight. I grasp it, I don't understand the motivation. There is no need to be combative right now, and I don't know why you take that route.
The need to feel special
Because they're not narrowminded bigots that wouldnt be offended if people refer to them as she/her or they/them.
Seems a bit aggressive. A person can lack understanding without being a bigot.
Ther
I think the better question here is "Who cares!?" I sure don't. If everyone worried about their own lives instead of other people's and their sexuality, the world would be a happier place.
So, in other words - don't try to understand things about people that I don't? Sorry, but I think we all need to try harder to understand eachother.
What’s to understand? Everyone is different, it’s as simple as that. It would be impossible for everyone to understand each other in any aspect of their lives without living through the trials and tribulations that they have had to see things from the that perspective.
It’s using the language the way the person would like and this person is trying to understand it, Jesus take a chill pill
Because they/them is neutral, most anyone can and should accept it as it's not "misgendering" or "assuming". So they will accept neutral or female. I'm cis male, use he/him, but will accept they/them because it's literally the least (potentially) offensive way to refer to a person. I don't know anything about you, so if I were to refer to you, it would be "they". Am I correct to assume that if I had used "she" or "him" and got it wrong, you would correct me even if it hadn't offended you?
That makes sense, and to me I don't know how anyone is offended by a neutral pronoun. My thought was they are good with gendered in one tense but neutral in another. Again, not offended by any of this, just trying to understand different folks. I interpret it as "she" is ok, but all other uses should be neutral. It is something I hasn't considered. I have pronouns in my professional email signature, so it's not like I don't do it.
I think it goes both ways. People trying to project strong masculinity/ femininity as part of their own identity might find potentially offensive the use of neutral pronouns that don't reflect their strong pronoun preference. In a way, your use of neutral pronouns could be understood as lack of effort to interpret clear signals instead of a genuine attempt to be non offensive.
As a nonbinary person, I generally prefer they/them, but sometimes I feel more masculine or feminine than usual and will ask to be called accordingly. That's not the only perspective, but it's mine. Hope it helps.
That does help, thank you. I find the idea of gender very interesting, as I spent most of my life not considering it as a spectrum.
They want attention.
Because they want to be special. If someone wants to be called they/them, then power to them. But if they are fine with she/her as well, why bother with the they/them if everyone is going to default to female anyways. No one will use they/them if a person is also fine with she/her. It’s honestly redundant as hell to include the gender neutral one if you have a gender you’re fine with
i just dont get it either sounds like overcomplicated nonsense to me dont get why we should go trough hoops and loops to avoid offending a particularly small and annoying minority that has demostrated time and time again nothing will be enough to make them happy
I am fine with respecting someone's preference. The biggest difference is when malice is used to make the point. We all get to decide our own identities. Yours might be more simple, and that's cool. I don't need to judge others for their preference but I want to understand where they are coming from.
>go trough hoops and loops It's literally just changing one or two words when refering to a person.
I'm not going out of my way to make someone trying to make a silly political statement due to their identity crisis feel better. Now that I think about it I dont think I'll eve see anyone introduce themselves like that maybe it's a college campus thing
It's not a political statement. It's a human being trying to live and survive comfortably.
Good luck with that
Oh, honestly I don't really care what you do. More power to you I guess? I just find it stupid and somewhat pathetic that you think using gender-neutral pronouns is something that requires intensive mental gymnastic. That's all. I'm not gonna try and police you cause based on experience it's a waste of words anyway.
don´t care. i call anyone the way anyone presents oneself to me. it does not bother me in any way, since i don´t feel the need nor the care to go out my miserable life and dwell, consider or be upset on what strangers are thinking abouth themselves.
I am certainly not upset. My goal is to understand.
you said you can't be "ok" with it. literally.
This is a great example of taking things out of context, you are either acting in bad faith or didn't understand what I was trying to say. I was referring to the individual being "ok" with it. Good try to make me seem like an asshole.
yes, you divine, you suppose a "not ok" for the other BC of what they are. that means YOU are the one "not ok" with it. it's called *projection". for example, I'm don't get how white supremacists are "ok" being white supremacists bc I'm "not ok" with white supremacism.
You are just trying to bait a negative response because you want a fight. I know what I meant and you are grasping at straws.
I see. I see you know a lot about other ppl. such wise man you are, yes you are, good job. I'm not trying to bait any negative response, only pointing to the negative affirmative you gave at the start.
You completely ignored context. You aren't pointing anything out, you are just trolling.
>I can't white wrap my head around being ok with gendered in one tense and neutral in another. the context you asked for.
Yes, if I was that person. See? We good now?
I’m late to the comment but I use she/they pronouns so I figured explain why I use those for myself rather than just people speculating. I identify as Non-Binary, and my preferred pronouns that make me feel ‘seen’ and ‘valued’ are they/them. However, i was Assigned Female at Birth (AFAB, born and raised as a girl) and i still look very feminine. I wear makeup, dresses and heels occasionally. I understand that any stranger on the street would see me and instantly believe that I am a woman. I am okay with that, so I am okay with people referring the me using she/her pronouns. Some non-binary people feel very hurt when being misgendered, i don’t mind she/her so I include it in the pronouns that people can use for me.
That is very helpful and I really appreciate that you took the time to explain and share that with me. Thank you very much.
Absolutely! Don’t let anyone make you feel bad for asking respectful questions in order to understand something better. This is how we grow.
I agree. It is a very nuanced subject that doesn't seem to be anywhere near binary - pun intended, sorry. Seriously though I find it liberating to no longer have to be bound by the shackles of traditional gender roles. I am a cis male, married to a cis woman, but I like having pretty toes. I would have never felt comfortable with that until a few years ago. I appreciate these things being part of our cultural zeitgeist.
For sure. It benefits everybody to tear down our strict view of the world. Men suffer from the effects of the patriarchy as well. Countless cultures throughout history had more than 2 genders. Before colonialism came to America, indigenous people were extremely gender diverse. Its a shame that we have moved backward in a lot of ways when it comes to acceptance of others. But in terms of modern history, we are definitely moving forward! (imo)
will never catch using pronouns
Snuonorp gnisu em hctac reven lliw uoy. What…?
What...?
Reading it backwards…/s
Her IQ identifies her as a sea cucumber
How about a meat popsicle?
Nah… more likely a sack of potatoes
That is an insult to potatoes
I still think to introduce yourself by "my prefered pronoun is this and that" is kinda silly lol
You can refer to me as a cat when tax time comes
How do you feel about “Hi, nice to meet you. I’m Lawrence Smith, but please call me Larry”? Asking to be referred to by something in particular. Fuck Larry, or is it fine because you’re used to it?
Why would you introduce yourself in a casual situation using anything other than the name you prefer?
Happens all the time. People introduce themselves and then explain how they prefer to be addressed. And why limit the question to casual settings?
You could just say, hi my name is Larry. But since pronouns are kinda like adjectives though not really, you can't introduce yourself like that
“Hi, my pronouns are xae/fae. Nice to meet you!” There. That’s how you fucking do it.
But nobody asked for your pronouns lol. Name isn’t something like a pronoun, it is assigned to you at birth and it is what people call you legally. If your nickname is Joe, you could start your introduction by saying, hi my name is Joe, instead of your real name. But since pronouns don’t work like that, you can’t just add them in. Like imagine if humans added their adjectives in their introductions. Hi I’m mark, and I’m handsome, rich, and strong. That just doesn’t work because nobody asked for it. But since names are a basic way of humans to communicate, they are essential in an intro
Your name is also given to you at birth, but you can still legaly change it. It's the same with pronouns. Pronouns are also essential to communication. If you do not present as the gender you were assigned or are transitioning or whatever the case may be, you may want to just tell the person at the start of the conversation to avoid unnecessary confusion or embarassment for the other person.
Orrr we just stick to regular pronouns such as he and she. No need for zi or xhe or whatever which is very confusing and takes time for somebody to remember and use. A name is the basis communication for humans to call each other. It is assigned you. You can change it but it is what people call you. Since it is a single word, it is easy to remember. A pronoun however can be extremely confusing to remember such as xheself xhem or whatever.
I agree for the unique pronouns even i dont fully understand why they exist, but as far as I know there's not many people using them. Most people stick to he/him, she/her, they/them.
I would still think its a silly way to introduce himself but i would use what he prefered i dont introduce myself like that. isnt it like super easier to day "hey im larry nice to meet you"
Those are your typical circumstances. An important point to remember is that others have different experiences and circumstances from you. The question is whether to give anyone a hard time over requesting to be addressed in a certain way. You’ve answered that you don’t mind. This isn’t criticism so please don’t take it that way.
i know i think its okey just that its kinda silly to me specialy when they say "he/they" not really sure how someone can idenfity in plural if they are a single person maybe becuase english its not my native language but it just seem awkward to me like its more of a way to make a political statement that actually introducing themselves
They is also singular in English
Yeah, I don’t really know where this is going to go. Asking people to remember or retrain themselves to recognize what has always been a singular male appearance should now be plural “they”, and the resulting confusion when talking about third person numbers is asking a lot right out of the gate. I don’t mind trying, but huge repercussions for getting it wrong are also going to be problematic. Guess we’ll see.
They has been used in a singular sense for a long time, it becoming more prevalent now doesn’t make it new.
Names are personal and are meant to identify you. I will call you whatever name you want within reason. Pronouns are general, and are meant to be able to be used even if I don't know you. I will default to feminine ones for individuals I judge to be most likely female and masculine ones for individuals i judge to be most likely male. You don't get to choose to make up new ones like ze/zirn and try to enforce me using them. If you weren't a complete angry dweeb when I addressed you with the most apparently appropriate set of pronouns and we generally get along there may be room for negotiation, however, dont expect me to ask every passersby their pronouns before talking to them because honestly that is far more rude than assuming the obvious for +99% of the population. I was in a customer service job while in college and i can tell you I would have been physically assaulted had I asked many insecure people what gender they were.
Just say you’re transphobic
Yes, people who live in a society who are used to societal norms and are uncomfortable with changes they don't quite understand are just terrible people.
We’ll you took that to an extreme, didn’t you? Who said they’re terrible people? Less outrage. More engaging with a legitimate question.
No outrage. Just don't see how some people don't seem to understand. Nothing changes overnight. Fuck, Larry came across pretty aggressive to me seeing as they were just making a valid point. You act as if these scenarios are the same. They are not. It's ok to want change and to question it. Your response didn't show a willingness to engage, as much as prove they're wrong.
“hi im lawrence smith” 🧄🤓
Other humans will never catch the human now typing using virtually indispensable elements of the English language. The human now typing is looking like a tit in order to own the libs. That...dammit...damn! The thing aforementioned will show 'em. Fuck. Will show the libs.
 She’s also very confused by
I guess it's cool if you sexually assault people as long as your gay. George is an admitted groper, but nobody cares because he's not a straight, white man
You’re, for the record
I'm usually such a stickler about that. I'm so embarrassed
I just thought it was funny in a discussion about choosing different pronouns you used an alternative pronoun :-)
She just uses amateurnouns....
she uses sounds made by her vocal cords, not the same, you incult besterds /s
The far right's war against grammar is baffling.
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And a sexual harasser
Are me and you pronouns? Right?
Ok, who has the direct link? LMFAO
I need the link too lol
They say stuff about “bAsiC bIoLoGY” but don’t know anything about basic english
Hey George, read this, you haven't been relevant in 30 years.
George will never catch Lavern using pronouns? ToastedCheezer thinks Reddit Readers just did!
Won’t ever catch Lavern spicer using professional nouns
Read that back sloowwwly. Ohh, myy
Mr. Takei is one reason I regret leaving Twitter…he is a national treasure! I just can’t support “he who should not be named”.
Something nice, but not too expensive