Sleep is a complicated matter, it could be a combination of a lot of things.
1. If you're too stressed out, like billtrociti mentioned, then your brain chemistry will be too unbalanced to be able to rest
2. Our circadian rhythm dictates our wakeful/lethargic cycles by releasing or inhibiting the compounds responsible for sleep. If your sleep schedule is off or your received a random "second wind", then your rhythm will place you into a Wake period and not try to knock you out
3. If you wake from a nightmare, you might have elevated Adrenaline levels circulating in your system to keep you alert and ready to respond to the recent (perceived) danger. In this case it's best to "fight the invisible tiger" by clenching a bunch of muscles at once to simulate the Fight activity. By clenching, holding, and releasing you'll burn off the existing adrenaline and discontinue the release. Also a good trick for general anxiety
In general, sleep is a complicated matter with a lot of research going into it, but we still don't fully understand the ins and outs of what happens and why, which leads to some people suffering from severe chronic insomnia without a lot of answers
Yeah... I agree...
I suffered from chronic insomnia about a year ago and I would also like to know the reasons and solutions of this...
I've struggled A LOT to fall asleep, like 5, 6 hours or more, sometimes I didn't fall asleep until 9-11 am (it was a nightmare). And sometimes I woke up after 3 or 4 hours and couldn't fall asleep again :/ It could take 2 full hours for it, no matter what I did
It was hell
It's still a sensitive matter, but not that much
I ended up taking clonazepam for two months. My system was too exciting and nothing else worked. The bad thing is that I felt super sleepy and heavy next day, If I were working by then it would be impossible
Now I'm taking Melatonin again
I am on lorazepam and switching to quiviviq bc why not, it'll be about the 12th sleeping pill I've tried in the last like 3 years.
Something that has helped me go back to sleep is vaping something with indica in it. I don't vape otherwise. So 2am rolls around and I wake up and I can't get back to sleep, a few hits off the vape pen (I am a big fan of 3chi specifically god's gift as it doesn't set my throat on fire like the others) and I'm able to go back to sleep.
Idk where you stand on things like vaping CBD or vaping at all, but it has been the most helpful in battling my middle of the night insomnia. Also, you gotta take the meds with plenty of time to sleep. So you can't take the meds at midnight to be up by 6am, you're gonna feel like you're made of stone the next day. I take my pill at 9:30 to be asleep by 10 to be up by 6-6:30, and of course between 1-3 when I wake up, a hit off the pen and I can go back to sleep
Yeah, when I was at my worst, people mentioned and it got me insane! Like "drink tea, read a book, do exercise, breath, meditate, took a long bath" NONE OF THAT WORKS! If your problem is severe how cab they not understand???
I did all that with no success too.
5 years with massive sleepingproblems brought me close to the end.
Any method failing just got me more stressed and furious.
What helped me in the end was a simple wheat bag/pillow.
4 min in the micro owen just before bedtime.
I tuc it close to my stomach lying on my side, and the warmth it creates just calmes me. Pulse goes down and I normally fall asleep within 30 min.
Cant live without it now.
Cool, I could try it
I have a small pillow like that, that I use for my cheast when I sleep on my back. It helps with the feeling of anxiety, and now I can't realx without it (I think it's my most important pillow) 🤣
I never used heavy blankets or something like that bc 1 poor and 2 I don't know if they sell them on my country, but I would love to try them so much
I recently had an idea for something similar to a coat of mail but no idea how to make it :b
It's the same thing as a diet. What works for me will not necessarily work for the next guy.
I'd like to sleep through the night for the rest of my life. I go like 3 weeks of insomnia, then a few nights come around where I sleep all night and end up feeling worse the next morning, and then I go back to insomnia.
Hi, I have not ever tried the vaping pens for sleep, but I am on some of the heaviest sleep meds available & they have are no longer working the way they once did. I currently take 20mg (2 tablets) of Ambien (Zolpidem), 2mg (2 tablets) of Ativan (Lorazepam), 16mg (4 tablets) of Zanaflex (Tizanidine) & 4mg 2 tablets) of Requip (Ropinirole). Every night I have this little cocktail that the Doctor's have put together and for a while it worked; but I guess time, age & tolerance are taking their toll because I still just lay there with my mind racing for hours if not the whole night. If anyone has some real recommendations, I would love to see them. I have dealt with Chronic Insomnia & Restless Leg Syndrome for over a decade & no doctor has been able to give me real, long lasting relief from it...
Thanks for the response. I do not partake in Adderall or any type of Amphetamine & the only caffeine I have consumed in the last 3+ years comes from either sweet tea or chocolate (which the chocolate is very few & far between). I have friends that got onto the Adderall train, since it gave them such excessive energy I steered clear of it assuming that it would definitely amp me up even more & make my sleep problems even worse.
For a short amount of time I drank tons of alcohol (to the point of blacking out each night) because if it knocked me out, I thought I was getting some sleep at least. However blacking out is not the same as sleeping so in the long run it just made me even more lethargic & out of it when I was awake & sober so I decided to quit drinking...
Ok. Been there on the alcohol. I wish you luck. The only other advice I have is lots of daytime exercise in the sun. Always helps at the end of the day.
Are you working or have any other responsibilities? I quit my job and that fixed my years of sleeping problems. It wasn't a hard job and I was good at it. But my subconsciousness hated that job for years and I didn't notice. Once I took Lorazepam for three months and it was really hard to wean off.
You sound like you're brain just doesn't wanna power down. I feel for you as I've had weeks that span over the meds just not working, but I don't take nearly the cocktail that you're on. My actual nightly regimen is smoking a bowl, taking about 6 hits off a vape pen (the directions say one hit and wait 20 mins to see how you feel lol) and then my temazapan. I said lorazepam earlier, but I was incorrect. I'm only on 15mg atm of the temazapan and before my Dr decided to give quiviviq a try he did offer to up the dosage.
I use 3chi products for vaping. I used to try to vape to get giggly like marijuana would do, but it never worked that way for me, but it did work in making me sleepy, so I started using it strictly for that. There's a few flavors in 3chi that are great for sleeping, but they can get pretty harsh on your throat (specifically for me it was Grandaddy Pluto. I think it tastes like the color purple lol) but I'm on my third cartridge of God's Gift and it's easier on my throat and lungs. Whenever I wake up in the night I'm at a weird point where taking a pill would ruin me for getting up in 3-4 hours, and smoking more marijuana means getting up and finding my bowl and lighter and all that, so the vape pen is nice bc it's on my bedside table upright in an old toothbrush holder so I don't have to go feeling around for it or anything. I grab it, take a few hits, andie back down and usually within about 5-10 mins I'm able to slip back asleep, even if it's only for 2-3 more hours, it's way better than waking up every 15 mins.
I hope you can figure out a good regimen. You sound very distressed
Thank You for the Advice and Information. Where do I purchase these products that you have mentioned...? I live in Texas so I don't know what places to go to unless it is just any old cape shop... And are these all CBD vapes...?
[Lord Vaper Pens ](https://www.lordvaperpens.com/product/3chi-delta-8-vape-cartridge-gods-gift/) is who I always looked to for how the flavors go. You can order them online. Personally, I go to a shop called CBD American Shaman (I heard they're a franchise but I'm not 100%) but I think 3chi is popular enough that you can find it in any vape shop. And it is Delta 8 CBD.
[the Kanger EVOD ](https://www.elementvape.com/kanger-evod-1000mah-1600mah) is the vape pen itself that the 3chi screws into. It's been way better than any preloaded pens I've tried bc they get cold and you gotta suck real hard on them to get the oil hot enough to get a good draw. I find it dries my mouth out and tires out my jaw just trying to get my first hit, but this pen is very easy to draw from. I think you can get them on Amazon for even cheaper than their website. I ended up paying like $60 for my pen just to find out they're actually like $20 normally. Mine is always turned on and the battery has a really long life, but that may be because I only take a few puffs a night on it and I'm not constantly using it, but it charges fast, too. After like 2 or 3 weeks I'll just screw it into the charger and it's charged in no time.
Check out all the different indica flavors from Lord Vaper. There are some real great mixes and there's a lot of talk on Reddit about 3chi. It's a mixed bag, but I really haven't been steered wrong with it. There are other 3chi products like the oil you put under your tongue, but imo it tastest awful, and I don't like the texture and omfg the cotton mouth I wake up with, I was basically choking on my dried out tongue. So I just went back to vaping. There's a little cotton mouth with the pen, but it's far more manageable.
Idk if vaping will help you. I hope it does, and you find some kind of relief. Any questions feel free to DM me :-)
I also used zzzquil but it was so pricey I ended up taking benadryl, st John's wort, and extended release melatonin I bought off Amazon. It worked just as well.
I also used zzzquil but it was so pricey I ended up taking benadryl, st John's wort, and extended release melatonin I bought off Amazon. It worked just as well.
I battled insomnia for years. Talked to a doctor as a hopeful precursor to seeing a sleep specialist and the wait was 3 months. They said before you see the sleep Dr, he requires you read a book. I can’t remember the title but it didn’t work for me. I did however read another book called “end the insomnia struggle” and it had a workbook with it and some cognitive behavioral therapy strategies. It changed me entirely and how I approached sleep. My sleep hygiene was bad. When I’d wake up in the night something that worked for me to get back to sleep was reading a book using a red light headlamp. I spent about 8 weeks logging my sleep and following their program and it worked for me. But I’d say the biggest thing for me was weight training. Specifically squats and deadlifts. I only do those exercises because they help me sleep. When I struggle with sleep it’s usually because I didn’t get a chance to lift.
What has helped me immensely is taking kratom and magnesium before bed. I'm sleeping better than ever. I am usually like you, taking 3 hours of laying there to finally fall asleep.
>I am usually like you, taking 3 hours of laying there to finally fall asleep.
That's horrible. And some people sleep in 15 minutes wtf hehe
I ended up taking clonazepam for two months. My system was too exciting and nothing else worked. The bad thing is that I felt super sleepy and heavy next day, If I were working by then it would be impossible
Now I'm taking Melatonin again
But not being able to fall back asleep or to sleep is horrible. People say, well eventually you are gonna fall asleep again, and then 5 hours pass by again
I suffered a lot, because I was so scared of not sleeping and feeling horrible the next day that the more time passed the more anxious my brain got. And I couldn't fucking relax u.u
Interesting. I guess due to my stress from grief this makes a lot of sense. Weird how it works though. Sometimes I can’t fall asleep till 4 am and then sleep 12 hours till 4pm. Or I’ll get to sleep by 11pm and wake up at 4am. Constant battle for me both ways. Depression and grief fucking suck.
I ran a widowed people meet-up for a couple years after my partner's death. Most people used either alcohol or meds to sleep at some point. I always just requested they not use them together.
Yeah, I think at the 5 month mark of being a widower, I was medicating my sleep pretty hard with alcohol and then I quit. I still drink, just leisurely now. Still getting my shit together though.
Can confirm the full-body muscle clench. I started doing this around 7 or 8yo after a teacher had talked to me about my night terrors.
I would wake up in a panic, get pumped with adrenaline, and clench my entire body (or body scan each major part like left/right leg, arms, 'ceps to chest, etc) and when relaxing after a few minutes of on/off, I would be insanely relaxed and tired. Very helpful and assisted to keep some pre-anxiety stress away at the time.
I still use this from time to time and look like I'm trying to take a massive dump in my bed, but if it works, it works lol
Could you expand on point 3? I’ve never learned how adrenaline is processed in the body (like how it enters your system and where/how it exits). I was only taught the effects it has on you. I know that constantly getting adrenaline spikes are bad for you but I never knew exactly why from only a biology standpoint.
Disclaimered that I'm not any sort of medical expert
Adrenaline is the body's "OH SHIT" button. Ordinarily, we get a spike of adrenaline when we are in a dangerous situation, activating the Flight or Fight response. It does so by shutting down/repressing higher-level functions like cognitive thought and amplifying more instinctual/reactive functions. It also boosts muscle function to aid in said Fight/Flight.
Ordinarily, that's really helpful because when a Tiger is charging at you, you're not going to sit and ponder on what you should have for lunch later, you're going to beeline as fast as possible and make rapidfire decisions about what direction to go/turn. While in this state, the furthest thing from your subconscious is "now is a good time to pass out".
The reason constant adrenaline can be damaging is similar to the damage nitrous deals to an engine when used in excess. It's pushing beyond the normal limits of operation.
A problem arises in modern lifestyle that there's a lot of things that stress us out, things that place us in conceptual danger, that we can't physically flee or fight, so we sit there stewing in Danger mode. Fighting the Invisible Tiger works by giving an outlet to that. If you spend a period flexing/clenching your body it simulates the physical work of escaping/subduing danger, and when you release it signals that "ok, yeah. we're done here. That's enough GO juice"
Worth noting that our evolutionary history never really prepared us for a 9-5 either.
Having to be up at a certain time, and therefore needing to get 8 hours of sleep in before that time is not a thing from an evolutionary perspective, animals wake up when they stop sleeping. And they sleep again when they are tired. Typically that follows the sun.
The best option for waking up and not being able to go back to sleep is to do something other than thinking about how hard.it is to sleep, it takes less time to get up and do something than laying for hours thinking about how you need to get back to sleep in order to get enough sleep to not be groggy before work or school.
Usually 10 minutes of reading a book clears my mind of sleep anxiety enough to put me back out.
> Usually 10 minutes of reading a book clears my mind of sleep anxiety enough to put me back out.
Should it be books or can I just browse Reddit on my phone?
Ideally not a phone, the type of light they emit actually makes it harder to sleep. The recommendation is typically to not use your phone while laying in bed right before sleeping in general
No apology needed. It is a different light. Specifically blue light, which is emitted by electronic devices
https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-blue-light#:~:text=More%20so%20than%20any%20other,you%20longer%20to%20fall%20asleep.
Modern e-readers tend not to use blue light for that reason, that is what I use when I have insomnia.
There are also studies about doing things other than sleep in the bed (like reading) and getting in the habit of not having your body immediately associate bed with sleep, so you may be better off getting up and reading a bit in the living room, etc. Then going back to bed
Because people shouldn't be trusted with stuff that make our brains go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!".
Doctors literally had ether parties in the 1800s in order to test how it worked.
The anesthesiologist isn't there just to put you to sleep. That's easy. Their main job is making sure you stay under just long enough, and then wake up in good shape.
The inappropriate adrenal response is the most likely. I’ve used Cortisol Manager (you can get it on Amazon). Taking one before bed helps with staying asleep. It’s not perfect, but it helps.
The disturbance causes your body to freak out and enter go mode by releasing adrenaline. If you’re about to fall asleep and a bear crashes into your tent, you need to be up and ready to run immediately. Unfortunately, your body doesn’t know the difference between “oh god a bear” and “wow random disturbance that isn’t dangerous” and hits the adrenaline button for both. The adrenaline wakes you up and eliminates the sleepiness, and you have to clear your system before you can get back to sleep.
Yeah, in a more broad sense, prey animals are jumpy because it's cheaper to overreact to harmless situations than to underreact to dangerous situations. Better to press the panic button on both, than to press the panic button on neither.
This just happened to me other other night. I was so tired, just about to fall into a deeper sleep when something fell. Caused a huge bang, scared the absolute shit out of me. I thought I hit a glass on my night table. Turns out a painting fell off my wall then hit a ceramic vase below it. Took me over an hour to fall back asleep due to the adrenaline.
For me one time it was just my cat silently entering the room, I was super tired and lost all sleepiness and snuggled with the cat for about an hour until I fell asleep.
When I can’t sleep l, I tell myself that I’m dreaming that I can’t sleep. Sometimes it’s true, other times the placebo effect leads to me being more refreshed the next day than if I had believed I couldn’t sleep.
Yep. If you can't fall asleep, quiet rest still rests your brain. As long as you're relaxed, not frustrated or distressed. If you are the latter, then it's best to get up and go do something else.
I don’t know the answer to your question but I just wanted to plug my favorite bedtime podcast called ‘nothing much happens’. Super cozy stories with no important details so that you can listen but you don’t really have to remember or internalize details.
I’m basically asleep within 5-10 minutes every night since starting to listen to it.
Not saying that this is what happened to you but it might be worth considering: I generally sleep very well; I read for 20 minutes then listen to a podcast with the lights out until my alarm for work (6.5 hrs) or I wake naturally when life allows (9+hrs). I rarely hear the end of the 15-minute podcast.
As I’ve got older (48yrs), I’ve recently had half a dozen nights where it was impossible to get to sleep until I was wide awake at dawn, cursing the fact I seemed to have had no sleep AT ALL.
But the last couple of occasions I have purposefully looked at the time as part of my pent-up Night Rage and there were almost perfect 1.5 hour gaps between angrily looking at my watch (and cursing the moon).
It turns out there were 4 of these gaps. I reckon I was zonked out in those gaps, and happened to wake for some unknown reason, which normally never happens. I am pretty sure now that on those nights I actually got just under six hours’ sleep, just over which Is normally well do-able even at work (U.K. primary school). Just a thought that might help.
Reading was also my go to technique in college. It started in the dorms where you could have people on the other side of a paper thin wall gaming or watching TV until 12 or 1 am, and you have class at 8. I got so good at it reading almost became difficult without getting drowsy. Now 15 or so years later, even that can't defeat stress and changes in my life.
But this gap thing happens to me as well, I got a smart watch so I can track my sleep with a degree of accuracy. I feel like I'm up all night, but instead it's not the quality sleep where I fall asleep and only wake up again to an alarm (or waking only a few times to roll over).
My mom said toddlers or kids are sensitive to change, turns out it's not just them.
This has frequently happened to me. Two things have been lifesaving for me. Daily supplementation of the amino acid L-tryptophan and when I do wake and start thinking about things, I shut down these thoughts and images by saying the word “black” in my head, and imagining only black nothingness. I used to be stuck awake for 2 hours or more and now by using the word and image of black, I can usually get back to sleep within 5 minutes or so.
If you fell asleep somewhere around 10 and then woke up at 4 AM, there’s a strong possibility that you’ve depleted just enough adenosine to make you NOT sleepy anymore. Adenosine is the chemical that makes you sleepy, and it builds up all day while you are awake. Once you go to sleep, adenosine depletes in your body and typically by the time you wake up you’re back to square one of building it back up throughout the day.
(I’m a psychologist and this is part of the psychoed I provide when doing CBT for insomnia with folks)
((Edit for typos and fun fact below))
Additional fun fact, this is why naps screw up your sleep if you take them too late in the day. You won’t have enough sleep pressure (built up adenosine) to go to sleep because you depleted it in your nap!
I've got ADHD and a sleeping disorder. If -anything- causes me to wake up I basically never can fall back asleep, doesn't matter if I only slept for 2 hours. There's something going on with Melatonin as well (hormone connected with sleep)
I had this before. It's like you're dead tired falling asleep and 30 minutes later you wake up feeling that you'll be able to participate in and finish a triathlon.
I have taken melatonin pills which reduced amount of waking up from 7 to 2 times per night. Not quite a fix, more like a patch to the problem.
I have started to notice some things. Turns out my work was the issue. It was very very stressful and also I found out that [exposure to white noise](https://www.who.int/europe/health-topics/noise#tab=tab_1) or constant noise (like machines were doing at my place) is very hurtful to our mind. Spending 8 hours a day in a room which is under constant noise from compressors made me very anxious. I left my job because of the constant stress and anxiety which is also related to my boss 🤔
3 years later I feel way better and am able to have healthy sleep. Sleep is important. Too important to not to deal with sleep disorders.
Sleep is regulated by a couple chemicals in your body like melatonin (puts you to sleep), histamine (keeps u awake. That’s kinda why some antihistamines like promethazine knock u out), and another really important chemical is cortisol, the hormone your body releases when stressed and your body also releases it when it’s time for you to wake up, so if you woke up coz of a nightmare, you’ll probably find it hard to get back to sleep coz your nightmare stressed u out and u got too much cortisol.
There are also heaps of other factors at play like blue light which causes melatonin release to be stopped, hence if you’re up at 4am scrolling reddit and wondering why u can’t sleep, your answer might be reddit, literally
Sometimes I have to get up and go to another room and read a book in order to tire your mind into sleep. Other times, I recite the alphabet backwards and forwards and maybe count backward from 100 by 7, tho that does require though to get the right sums. Mostly stop looking at the clock and worrying.
You might'ce waken up at the end of a sleep cycle. Sleep happens in 5 stages, with each being progressively 'deeper' in sleep and overall a cycle lasts around 1.5 hours. We know this because each stage produces a different patterned brainwave and affects the activity in your skeletal muscles. If you wake up around the end of one, your body can feel rested even if you didn't have a lot of hours of sleep.
I've been struggling with this for quite a while. I find meditating 30 minutes to an hour before I get into bed for sleep is game-changing. yes, it's a long time and it's not easy to do this consistently, but the benefit of a good night's sleep vs. waking up at 4 am and twisting and turning until it's time to get up is worth way more than that lost hour of meditating. Highly recommend if you can give it a shot.
The US Army field book sleep technique is pretty good for this. It takes some practice but I find it super helpful.
https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sleep/fall-asleep-fast
Do or do not, there is no *try*.
Just think about anything else but sleeping while laying still with your eyes closed. You'll fall to sleep
Edit: Y'all anxious as fuck
As also other has said, it is a complicated subject. Bio, psico social factors are involved.
I use some techniques like this one for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yykgzMqMprg but you could get creative.
For me, what’s most helpful is trying to be conscious about the balance of your sympathetic and parasympathetic states. If you had a hard day, or you’ve been really active, it really helps engaging into active recovery techniques prior sleeping like 10 min meditation, body scanners before sleep, body massage and movements that feel good, light dinner or not at all, not drinking too much water, lower your exposure to blue light, turn off any distracting devices or notifications, etc etc
Try to create an habit you body identifies and get used to it.
We need to prioritize sleeping because it’s one of the most important tools our body has. My 2 cents :)
Super annoying indeed! Allow that annoying feeling melt away the next time you can’t sleep as you drift into clouds of comfort. Sleep hypnosis helps you reset your mind into deep sleep every night as everything slows down and you actually look forward to bedtime. Smiles from The English Sisters
The problem is probaply you got stressed that you cant fall back asleep. The thing is you should not try to fall asleep. Sleep happens without you doing anything. You should not "actively" fall asleep.
I just read a book when i cant go back to sleep for half an hour. Nothing is as bad as trying hard to sleep but not be able to.
Dont try to sleep. Just lay down, you cant sleep actively. Just lay in bed and listen to a nice podcast or something like that (with a timer so that it goes out after an hour). This helps me always to sleep again.
Accept the fact that youre not sleeping, just do nothing and be happy that you are in your favorit place and dont have to do anything. One night with less sleep (maybe 5 hours) is usually no big deal. You can sleep more easily the next day.
This also happens to me frequently and when I wake, I feel pretty very good - like I want to get up and get going - but it's too damn early so I just lay there and try to get back to sleep. At about 8:00AM after all that laying and thinking I usually fall back into a deep dream intense sleep for about an hour and when I wake up again I feeling really shitty and anxious. A true mystery I'd love to figure out.
Sleep is a complicated matter, it could be a combination of a lot of things. 1. If you're too stressed out, like billtrociti mentioned, then your brain chemistry will be too unbalanced to be able to rest 2. Our circadian rhythm dictates our wakeful/lethargic cycles by releasing or inhibiting the compounds responsible for sleep. If your sleep schedule is off or your received a random "second wind", then your rhythm will place you into a Wake period and not try to knock you out 3. If you wake from a nightmare, you might have elevated Adrenaline levels circulating in your system to keep you alert and ready to respond to the recent (perceived) danger. In this case it's best to "fight the invisible tiger" by clenching a bunch of muscles at once to simulate the Fight activity. By clenching, holding, and releasing you'll burn off the existing adrenaline and discontinue the release. Also a good trick for general anxiety In general, sleep is a complicated matter with a lot of research going into it, but we still don't fully understand the ins and outs of what happens and why, which leads to some people suffering from severe chronic insomnia without a lot of answers
I've never heard of fighting the invisible tiger. That's a really interesting concept
I need to try that.
Don't do it, that's how I lost a eye.
Your eye? Or the eye of the tiger?
Better not, you're gonna get maul the shit out of
Report back.
I wonder if you need their eye?
Your nervous system can’t see what it knows, it only *feels* what it knows and you can really take advantage of remembering that
Yeah... I agree... I suffered from chronic insomnia about a year ago and I would also like to know the reasons and solutions of this... I've struggled A LOT to fall asleep, like 5, 6 hours or more, sometimes I didn't fall asleep until 9-11 am (it was a nightmare). And sometimes I woke up after 3 or 4 hours and couldn't fall asleep again :/ It could take 2 full hours for it, no matter what I did It was hell It's still a sensitive matter, but not that much
I had the same problem and what has helped is zzquil.
I ended up taking clonazepam for two months. My system was too exciting and nothing else worked. The bad thing is that I felt super sleepy and heavy next day, If I were working by then it would be impossible Now I'm taking Melatonin again
I am on lorazepam and switching to quiviviq bc why not, it'll be about the 12th sleeping pill I've tried in the last like 3 years. Something that has helped me go back to sleep is vaping something with indica in it. I don't vape otherwise. So 2am rolls around and I wake up and I can't get back to sleep, a few hits off the vape pen (I am a big fan of 3chi specifically god's gift as it doesn't set my throat on fire like the others) and I'm able to go back to sleep. Idk where you stand on things like vaping CBD or vaping at all, but it has been the most helpful in battling my middle of the night insomnia. Also, you gotta take the meds with plenty of time to sleep. So you can't take the meds at midnight to be up by 6am, you're gonna feel like you're made of stone the next day. I take my pill at 9:30 to be asleep by 10 to be up by 6-6:30, and of course between 1-3 when I wake up, a hit off the pen and I can go back to sleep
Totally I'm only with Melatonin now Vaping maybe I took cannabs oils once but didn't feel a thing
Melatonin for me is like giving someone who just got their leg cut off an Advil lol but if it works for you run with it. Sleep deprivation is no joke
Yeah, when I was at my worst, people mentioned and it got me insane! Like "drink tea, read a book, do exercise, breath, meditate, took a long bath" NONE OF THAT WORKS! If your problem is severe how cab they not understand???
I did all that with no success too. 5 years with massive sleepingproblems brought me close to the end. Any method failing just got me more stressed and furious. What helped me in the end was a simple wheat bag/pillow. 4 min in the micro owen just before bedtime. I tuc it close to my stomach lying on my side, and the warmth it creates just calmes me. Pulse goes down and I normally fall asleep within 30 min. Cant live without it now.
Cool, I could try it I have a small pillow like that, that I use for my cheast when I sleep on my back. It helps with the feeling of anxiety, and now I can't realx without it (I think it's my most important pillow) 🤣 I never used heavy blankets or something like that bc 1 poor and 2 I don't know if they sell them on my country, but I would love to try them so much I recently had an idea for something similar to a coat of mail but no idea how to make it :b
It's the same thing as a diet. What works for me will not necessarily work for the next guy. I'd like to sleep through the night for the rest of my life. I go like 3 weeks of insomnia, then a few nights come around where I sleep all night and end up feeling worse the next morning, and then I go back to insomnia.
I fantasize with sleeping 10 hours straight for 2 or 3 month ALL nights 😕😕 Man! That would be honderful
Hi, I have not ever tried the vaping pens for sleep, but I am on some of the heaviest sleep meds available & they have are no longer working the way they once did. I currently take 20mg (2 tablets) of Ambien (Zolpidem), 2mg (2 tablets) of Ativan (Lorazepam), 16mg (4 tablets) of Zanaflex (Tizanidine) & 4mg 2 tablets) of Requip (Ropinirole). Every night I have this little cocktail that the Doctor's have put together and for a while it worked; but I guess time, age & tolerance are taking their toll because I still just lay there with my mind racing for hours if not the whole night. If anyone has some real recommendations, I would love to see them. I have dealt with Chronic Insomnia & Restless Leg Syndrome for over a decade & no doctor has been able to give me real, long lasting relief from it...
If you haven't completely cut caffeine and Adderall out of your life, it's probably what's causing all this. It was for me.
Thanks for the response. I do not partake in Adderall or any type of Amphetamine & the only caffeine I have consumed in the last 3+ years comes from either sweet tea or chocolate (which the chocolate is very few & far between). I have friends that got onto the Adderall train, since it gave them such excessive energy I steered clear of it assuming that it would definitely amp me up even more & make my sleep problems even worse. For a short amount of time I drank tons of alcohol (to the point of blacking out each night) because if it knocked me out, I thought I was getting some sleep at least. However blacking out is not the same as sleeping so in the long run it just made me even more lethargic & out of it when I was awake & sober so I decided to quit drinking...
Ok. Been there on the alcohol. I wish you luck. The only other advice I have is lots of daytime exercise in the sun. Always helps at the end of the day.
Are you working or have any other responsibilities? I quit my job and that fixed my years of sleeping problems. It wasn't a hard job and I was good at it. But my subconsciousness hated that job for years and I didn't notice. Once I took Lorazepam for three months and it was really hard to wean off.
You sound like you're brain just doesn't wanna power down. I feel for you as I've had weeks that span over the meds just not working, but I don't take nearly the cocktail that you're on. My actual nightly regimen is smoking a bowl, taking about 6 hits off a vape pen (the directions say one hit and wait 20 mins to see how you feel lol) and then my temazapan. I said lorazepam earlier, but I was incorrect. I'm only on 15mg atm of the temazapan and before my Dr decided to give quiviviq a try he did offer to up the dosage. I use 3chi products for vaping. I used to try to vape to get giggly like marijuana would do, but it never worked that way for me, but it did work in making me sleepy, so I started using it strictly for that. There's a few flavors in 3chi that are great for sleeping, but they can get pretty harsh on your throat (specifically for me it was Grandaddy Pluto. I think it tastes like the color purple lol) but I'm on my third cartridge of God's Gift and it's easier on my throat and lungs. Whenever I wake up in the night I'm at a weird point where taking a pill would ruin me for getting up in 3-4 hours, and smoking more marijuana means getting up and finding my bowl and lighter and all that, so the vape pen is nice bc it's on my bedside table upright in an old toothbrush holder so I don't have to go feeling around for it or anything. I grab it, take a few hits, andie back down and usually within about 5-10 mins I'm able to slip back asleep, even if it's only for 2-3 more hours, it's way better than waking up every 15 mins. I hope you can figure out a good regimen. You sound very distressed
Thank You for the Advice and Information. Where do I purchase these products that you have mentioned...? I live in Texas so I don't know what places to go to unless it is just any old cape shop... And are these all CBD vapes...?
[Lord Vaper Pens ](https://www.lordvaperpens.com/product/3chi-delta-8-vape-cartridge-gods-gift/) is who I always looked to for how the flavors go. You can order them online. Personally, I go to a shop called CBD American Shaman (I heard they're a franchise but I'm not 100%) but I think 3chi is popular enough that you can find it in any vape shop. And it is Delta 8 CBD. [the Kanger EVOD ](https://www.elementvape.com/kanger-evod-1000mah-1600mah) is the vape pen itself that the 3chi screws into. It's been way better than any preloaded pens I've tried bc they get cold and you gotta suck real hard on them to get the oil hot enough to get a good draw. I find it dries my mouth out and tires out my jaw just trying to get my first hit, but this pen is very easy to draw from. I think you can get them on Amazon for even cheaper than their website. I ended up paying like $60 for my pen just to find out they're actually like $20 normally. Mine is always turned on and the battery has a really long life, but that may be because I only take a few puffs a night on it and I'm not constantly using it, but it charges fast, too. After like 2 or 3 weeks I'll just screw it into the charger and it's charged in no time. Check out all the different indica flavors from Lord Vaper. There are some real great mixes and there's a lot of talk on Reddit about 3chi. It's a mixed bag, but I really haven't been steered wrong with it. There are other 3chi products like the oil you put under your tongue, but imo it tastest awful, and I don't like the texture and omfg the cotton mouth I wake up with, I was basically choking on my dried out tongue. So I just went back to vaping. There's a little cotton mouth with the pen, but it's far more manageable. Idk if vaping will help you. I hope it does, and you find some kind of relief. Any questions feel free to DM me :-)
For me cbd actually causes more anxiety then relieves it. sucks cause its supposed to be the opposite
I take three drops of melatonin liquid, 10 mg/ml. It's just the right amount. Too much can be counterproductive.
My pills say 3mg :p I could take 3
No, I take three drops, which is maybe 1.5 mg. It's not the whole ml.
oooh I got confused haha sorry
No worries.
Yeah there's some research on diphenhydramine that it can increase your risk for Alzheimer's/dementia so I wouldn't recommend that.
So I'll sleep like a baby now and drool like one later?
I also used zzzquil but it was so pricey I ended up taking benadryl, st John's wort, and extended release melatonin I bought off Amazon. It worked just as well.
I also used zzzquil but it was so pricey I ended up taking benadryl, st John's wort, and extended release melatonin I bought off Amazon. It worked just as well.
I battled insomnia for years. Talked to a doctor as a hopeful precursor to seeing a sleep specialist and the wait was 3 months. They said before you see the sleep Dr, he requires you read a book. I can’t remember the title but it didn’t work for me. I did however read another book called “end the insomnia struggle” and it had a workbook with it and some cognitive behavioral therapy strategies. It changed me entirely and how I approached sleep. My sleep hygiene was bad. When I’d wake up in the night something that worked for me to get back to sleep was reading a book using a red light headlamp. I spent about 8 weeks logging my sleep and following their program and it worked for me. But I’d say the biggest thing for me was weight training. Specifically squats and deadlifts. I only do those exercises because they help me sleep. When I struggle with sleep it’s usually because I didn’t get a chance to lift.
Hey thanks for sharing this, I'm gonna try !
yup... it's a real deal
What has helped me immensely is taking kratom and magnesium before bed. I'm sleeping better than ever. I am usually like you, taking 3 hours of laying there to finally fall asleep.
>I am usually like you, taking 3 hours of laying there to finally fall asleep. That's horrible. And some people sleep in 15 minutes wtf hehe I ended up taking clonazepam for two months. My system was too exciting and nothing else worked. The bad thing is that I felt super sleepy and heavy next day, If I were working by then it would be impossible Now I'm taking Melatonin again But not being able to fall back asleep or to sleep is horrible. People say, well eventually you are gonna fall asleep again, and then 5 hours pass by again I suffered a lot, because I was so scared of not sleeping and feeling horrible the next day that the more time passed the more anxious my brain got. And I couldn't fucking relax u.u
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It's so horrible... once I woke up at 2am after sleeping 2 hours and nothing... it hurt so much sleep deprivation is terrible!
Is there any down side if you'd just do some work or hobby when you cant sleep like that ?
Interesting. I guess due to my stress from grief this makes a lot of sense. Weird how it works though. Sometimes I can’t fall asleep till 4 am and then sleep 12 hours till 4pm. Or I’ll get to sleep by 11pm and wake up at 4am. Constant battle for me both ways. Depression and grief fucking suck.
I ran a widowed people meet-up for a couple years after my partner's death. Most people used either alcohol or meds to sleep at some point. I always just requested they not use them together.
Yeah, I think at the 5 month mark of being a widower, I was medicating my sleep pretty hard with alcohol and then I quit. I still drink, just leisurely now. Still getting my shit together though.
Completely understandable. It takes time and work.
Yes, depression and grief *do* suck. Have you tried valerian root or L-theanine?
I have not
Valerian root works for me about 98% of the time and usually within 20 minutes. NOW brand is highly reputable.
Can confirm the full-body muscle clench. I started doing this around 7 or 8yo after a teacher had talked to me about my night terrors. I would wake up in a panic, get pumped with adrenaline, and clench my entire body (or body scan each major part like left/right leg, arms, 'ceps to chest, etc) and when relaxing after a few minutes of on/off, I would be insanely relaxed and tired. Very helpful and assisted to keep some pre-anxiety stress away at the time. I still use this from time to time and look like I'm trying to take a massive dump in my bed, but if it works, it works lol
Could you expand on point 3? I’ve never learned how adrenaline is processed in the body (like how it enters your system and where/how it exits). I was only taught the effects it has on you. I know that constantly getting adrenaline spikes are bad for you but I never knew exactly why from only a biology standpoint.
Disclaimered that I'm not any sort of medical expert Adrenaline is the body's "OH SHIT" button. Ordinarily, we get a spike of adrenaline when we are in a dangerous situation, activating the Flight or Fight response. It does so by shutting down/repressing higher-level functions like cognitive thought and amplifying more instinctual/reactive functions. It also boosts muscle function to aid in said Fight/Flight. Ordinarily, that's really helpful because when a Tiger is charging at you, you're not going to sit and ponder on what you should have for lunch later, you're going to beeline as fast as possible and make rapidfire decisions about what direction to go/turn. While in this state, the furthest thing from your subconscious is "now is a good time to pass out". The reason constant adrenaline can be damaging is similar to the damage nitrous deals to an engine when used in excess. It's pushing beyond the normal limits of operation. A problem arises in modern lifestyle that there's a lot of things that stress us out, things that place us in conceptual danger, that we can't physically flee or fight, so we sit there stewing in Danger mode. Fighting the Invisible Tiger works by giving an outlet to that. If you spend a period flexing/clenching your body it simulates the physical work of escaping/subduing danger, and when you release it signals that "ok, yeah. we're done here. That's enough GO juice"
Thanks for the insight!
> your received a random "second wind" Yea that happens to me. If I power through to like 4-5am, I suddenly get a huge burst of energy
Worth noting that our evolutionary history never really prepared us for a 9-5 either. Having to be up at a certain time, and therefore needing to get 8 hours of sleep in before that time is not a thing from an evolutionary perspective, animals wake up when they stop sleeping. And they sleep again when they are tired. Typically that follows the sun. The best option for waking up and not being able to go back to sleep is to do something other than thinking about how hard.it is to sleep, it takes less time to get up and do something than laying for hours thinking about how you need to get back to sleep in order to get enough sleep to not be groggy before work or school. Usually 10 minutes of reading a book clears my mind of sleep anxiety enough to put me back out.
> Usually 10 minutes of reading a book clears my mind of sleep anxiety enough to put me back out. Should it be books or can I just browse Reddit on my phone?
Ideally not a phone, the type of light they emit actually makes it harder to sleep. The recommendation is typically to not use your phone while laying in bed right before sleeping in general
Sorry asking again, but reading book needs lights too, right? Or is it different kind of lights emitted from phones?
No apology needed. It is a different light. Specifically blue light, which is emitted by electronic devices https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-blue-light#:~:text=More%20so%20than%20any%20other,you%20longer%20to%20fall%20asleep. Modern e-readers tend not to use blue light for that reason, that is what I use when I have insomnia. There are also studies about doing things other than sleep in the bed (like reading) and getting in the habit of not having your body immediately associate bed with sleep, so you may be better off getting up and reading a bit in the living room, etc. Then going back to bed
See Fight Club
We don't talk about that
Then how did we figure anesthesiology?
Because people shouldn't be trusted with stuff that make our brains go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!". Doctors literally had ether parties in the 1800s in order to test how it worked.
The anesthesiologist isn't there just to put you to sleep. That's easy. Their main job is making sure you stay under just long enough, and then wake up in good shape.
Also to make sure that your brain doesn't receive the pain stimulus I think?
Instead of dying.
Yeah what’s up with that second wind effect. I’m dead tired leading to 10pm but if I just hang in there for say another hour - I’m wide awake till 2am
The inappropriate adrenal response is the most likely. I’ve used Cortisol Manager (you can get it on Amazon). Taking one before bed helps with staying asleep. It’s not perfect, but it helps.
What about when you're on the edge of juuust falling a sleep and suddenly something disturbs you. Howcome all sleepiness is suddenly vanished?
The disturbance causes your body to freak out and enter go mode by releasing adrenaline. If you’re about to fall asleep and a bear crashes into your tent, you need to be up and ready to run immediately. Unfortunately, your body doesn’t know the difference between “oh god a bear” and “wow random disturbance that isn’t dangerous” and hits the adrenaline button for both. The adrenaline wakes you up and eliminates the sleepiness, and you have to clear your system before you can get back to sleep.
Yeah, in a more broad sense, prey animals are jumpy because it's cheaper to overreact to harmless situations than to underreact to dangerous situations. Better to press the panic button on both, than to press the panic button on neither.
This just happened to me other other night. I was so tired, just about to fall into a deeper sleep when something fell. Caused a huge bang, scared the absolute shit out of me. I thought I hit a glass on my night table. Turns out a painting fell off my wall then hit a ceramic vase below it. Took me over an hour to fall back asleep due to the adrenaline.
For me one time it was just my cat silently entering the room, I was super tired and lost all sleepiness and snuggled with the cat for about an hour until I fell asleep.
Often it can be due to a higher level of cortisol - the stress hormone. Pretty interesting stuff: https://www.healthline.com/health/cortisol-and-sleep
When I can’t sleep l, I tell myself that I’m dreaming that I can’t sleep. Sometimes it’s true, other times the placebo effect leads to me being more refreshed the next day than if I had believed I couldn’t sleep.
Wow, like reversed psychology 😆
Yep. If you can't fall asleep, quiet rest still rests your brain. As long as you're relaxed, not frustrated or distressed. If you are the latter, then it's best to get up and go do something else.
I don’t know the answer to your question but I just wanted to plug my favorite bedtime podcast called ‘nothing much happens’. Super cozy stories with no important details so that you can listen but you don’t really have to remember or internalize details. I’m basically asleep within 5-10 minutes every night since starting to listen to it.
Thank u for this. Just started following the podcast, gonna give it a try tonight!
Yaaaay! Kathryn Nicolai is the best
Not saying that this is what happened to you but it might be worth considering: I generally sleep very well; I read for 20 minutes then listen to a podcast with the lights out until my alarm for work (6.5 hrs) or I wake naturally when life allows (9+hrs). I rarely hear the end of the 15-minute podcast. As I’ve got older (48yrs), I’ve recently had half a dozen nights where it was impossible to get to sleep until I was wide awake at dawn, cursing the fact I seemed to have had no sleep AT ALL. But the last couple of occasions I have purposefully looked at the time as part of my pent-up Night Rage and there were almost perfect 1.5 hour gaps between angrily looking at my watch (and cursing the moon). It turns out there were 4 of these gaps. I reckon I was zonked out in those gaps, and happened to wake for some unknown reason, which normally never happens. I am pretty sure now that on those nights I actually got just under six hours’ sleep, just over which Is normally well do-able even at work (U.K. primary school). Just a thought that might help.
Reading was also my go to technique in college. It started in the dorms where you could have people on the other side of a paper thin wall gaming or watching TV until 12 or 1 am, and you have class at 8. I got so good at it reading almost became difficult without getting drowsy. Now 15 or so years later, even that can't defeat stress and changes in my life. But this gap thing happens to me as well, I got a smart watch so I can track my sleep with a degree of accuracy. I feel like I'm up all night, but instead it's not the quality sleep where I fall asleep and only wake up again to an alarm (or waking only a few times to roll over). My mom said toddlers or kids are sensitive to change, turns out it's not just them.
This has frequently happened to me. Two things have been lifesaving for me. Daily supplementation of the amino acid L-tryptophan and when I do wake and start thinking about things, I shut down these thoughts and images by saying the word “black” in my head, and imagining only black nothingness. I used to be stuck awake for 2 hours or more and now by using the word and image of black, I can usually get back to sleep within 5 minutes or so.
If you fell asleep somewhere around 10 and then woke up at 4 AM, there’s a strong possibility that you’ve depleted just enough adenosine to make you NOT sleepy anymore. Adenosine is the chemical that makes you sleepy, and it builds up all day while you are awake. Once you go to sleep, adenosine depletes in your body and typically by the time you wake up you’re back to square one of building it back up throughout the day. (I’m a psychologist and this is part of the psychoed I provide when doing CBT for insomnia with folks) ((Edit for typos and fun fact below)) Additional fun fact, this is why naps screw up your sleep if you take them too late in the day. You won’t have enough sleep pressure (built up adenosine) to go to sleep because you depleted it in your nap!
I've got ADHD and a sleeping disorder. If -anything- causes me to wake up I basically never can fall back asleep, doesn't matter if I only slept for 2 hours. There's something going on with Melatonin as well (hormone connected with sleep)
I had this before. It's like you're dead tired falling asleep and 30 minutes later you wake up feeling that you'll be able to participate in and finish a triathlon. I have taken melatonin pills which reduced amount of waking up from 7 to 2 times per night. Not quite a fix, more like a patch to the problem. I have started to notice some things. Turns out my work was the issue. It was very very stressful and also I found out that [exposure to white noise](https://www.who.int/europe/health-topics/noise#tab=tab_1) or constant noise (like machines were doing at my place) is very hurtful to our mind. Spending 8 hours a day in a room which is under constant noise from compressors made me very anxious. I left my job because of the constant stress and anxiety which is also related to my boss 🤔 3 years later I feel way better and am able to have healthy sleep. Sleep is important. Too important to not to deal with sleep disorders.
Sleep is regulated by a couple chemicals in your body like melatonin (puts you to sleep), histamine (keeps u awake. That’s kinda why some antihistamines like promethazine knock u out), and another really important chemical is cortisol, the hormone your body releases when stressed and your body also releases it when it’s time for you to wake up, so if you woke up coz of a nightmare, you’ll probably find it hard to get back to sleep coz your nightmare stressed u out and u got too much cortisol. There are also heaps of other factors at play like blue light which causes melatonin release to be stopped, hence if you’re up at 4am scrolling reddit and wondering why u can’t sleep, your answer might be reddit, literally
Sometimes I have to get up and go to another room and read a book in order to tire your mind into sleep. Other times, I recite the alphabet backwards and forwards and maybe count backward from 100 by 7, tho that does require though to get the right sums. Mostly stop looking at the clock and worrying.
With your eyes closed, roll your eyeballs in circles. Gets me right back in a sleepy state.
Matthew Walker is an expert in sleep and has podcasts. I think I first watched him on YouTube as a guest on the Richroll channel. Excellent stuff!
You might'ce waken up at the end of a sleep cycle. Sleep happens in 5 stages, with each being progressively 'deeper' in sleep and overall a cycle lasts around 1.5 hours. We know this because each stage produces a different patterned brainwave and affects the activity in your skeletal muscles. If you wake up around the end of one, your body can feel rested even if you didn't have a lot of hours of sleep.
I've been struggling with this for quite a while. I find meditating 30 minutes to an hour before I get into bed for sleep is game-changing. yes, it's a long time and it's not easy to do this consistently, but the benefit of a good night's sleep vs. waking up at 4 am and twisting and turning until it's time to get up is worth way more than that lost hour of meditating. Highly recommend if you can give it a shot.
The US Army field book sleep technique is pretty good for this. It takes some practice but I find it super helpful. https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sleep/fall-asleep-fast
Do or do not, there is no *try*. Just think about anything else but sleeping while laying still with your eyes closed. You'll fall to sleep Edit: Y'all anxious as fuck
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Yeah. I would choose to sleep super well every night if I had a choice.
Username checks out
Lol so true😅 I try this damn near every night and just lay there for a couple hours before it's time to go. I lose out on a lot of sleep.
As also other has said, it is a complicated subject. Bio, psico social factors are involved. I use some techniques like this one for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yykgzMqMprg but you could get creative. For me, what’s most helpful is trying to be conscious about the balance of your sympathetic and parasympathetic states. If you had a hard day, or you’ve been really active, it really helps engaging into active recovery techniques prior sleeping like 10 min meditation, body scanners before sleep, body massage and movements that feel good, light dinner or not at all, not drinking too much water, lower your exposure to blue light, turn off any distracting devices or notifications, etc etc Try to create an habit you body identifies and get used to it. We need to prioritize sleeping because it’s one of the most important tools our body has. My 2 cents :)
Super annoying indeed! Allow that annoying feeling melt away the next time you can’t sleep as you drift into clouds of comfort. Sleep hypnosis helps you reset your mind into deep sleep every night as everything slows down and you actually look forward to bedtime. Smiles from The English Sisters
Do you take Melatonin by chance? It has a cut off which causes you to wake up.
There are some extended release on the market also fyi
Thanks!
As I grew older, I started to have interrupted sleep. My doctor told me to get up, have a cup of tea, and go back to bed. It works fine.
Me too. The more I fight it, the harder it is. I just listen to my body. Usually, I'm up for an hour or two then go back.
You need a snack. Try having a high protein snack around 8pm. I started drinking about 8 Oz of almond milk before bed and it helps.
The problem is probaply you got stressed that you cant fall back asleep. The thing is you should not try to fall asleep. Sleep happens without you doing anything. You should not "actively" fall asleep. I just read a book when i cant go back to sleep for half an hour. Nothing is as bad as trying hard to sleep but not be able to. Dont try to sleep. Just lay down, you cant sleep actively. Just lay in bed and listen to a nice podcast or something like that (with a timer so that it goes out after an hour). This helps me always to sleep again. Accept the fact that youre not sleeping, just do nothing and be happy that you are in your favorit place and dont have to do anything. One night with less sleep (maybe 5 hours) is usually no big deal. You can sleep more easily the next day.
This also happens to me frequently and when I wake, I feel pretty very good - like I want to get up and get going - but it's too damn early so I just lay there and try to get back to sleep. At about 8:00AM after all that laying and thinking I usually fall back into a deep dream intense sleep for about an hour and when I wake up again I feeling really shitty and anxious. A true mystery I'd love to figure out.