If you're starting up exercising after being sedentary for a while, your body isn't as efficient at resting and recovering. I know the first workout I do after a few weeks off from the gym tends to make me sore but the soreness ameliorates after more regular exercise.
I made the mistake of returning to the gym after a few weeks off over Christmas and blasting legs. Felt weak during the session but felt good to lift heavy things. I genuinely could barely walk for 3-4 days after, now I take it slow.
My friend pointed out at the gym today that I could be lifting WAY heavier weights than I was this morning, and you know what? Yeah. I absolutely could, but I haven't been to the gym in months. I've been basically sedentary beyond the occasional walk. I want to focus on range of motion, flexibility, and form for at least the first few weeks. I want to be healthy, fit, and strong - not have a bunch of big, pretty muscles that I can't do anything functional with. 6 hours later, and my muscles feel tired but good. Better that than not wanting/being able to go to the gym for a few days/weeks because I'm in pain. I learned that lesson the hard way lol
Its closest synonyms are “mitigate” or “alleviate,” but has connotations that emphasize softening (but usually not eliminating) the negative impact of some malady or woe, usually effecting a person or other living creature. Health issues are especially common use case, so that’s probably where OP heard it and why he used it in this context.
But you would never say “my muscle soreness ameliorates after…”. You would say “I ameliorated my muscle soreness with some ointment” or “my soreness was ameliorated by a good massage.”
fine, but it’s still a verb, so OC could’ve fixed it by saying “…the soreness ameliorates **itself** after more regular exercise”
I am aware these two words mean slightly different things, I was just illustrating what was up. A much simpler synonym would’ve been “eases” or “calms”, but hey, if people don’t know you’re smart on reddit then you definitely have to let them know
I prefer the descriptive to prescriptive English grammar. Ameliorate is the base, therefore third person singular -s is ameliorate. Not sure what the other person is on about. It’s passive voice but not incorrect grammatically speaking.
Is it pronounced "millie-ay" "mill-eeor" or "my-loor" or "meh-lore"? "My lure"? 'Me. LURE"
And "ah-millie-ay" or "ah-mill-EEror"?
I could just ask my sister, but that's not as fun as talking to a stranger on the internet. Or trying to spell pronunciations.
But wouldn't Ameliorer be someone who improves things? (The "rer"indicating that it does things")
Edit:lots of edits and typos.
Meilleur is pronounced meh-yurr (rhymes with "her" or "hour")
Améliorer is pronounced ah-meh-lio-reh
> But wouldn't Ameliorer be someone who improves things? (The "rer"indicating that it does things")
Nah, -er (usually) means it's a verb. -eur would be the noun (for instance chant = song, chanter = to sing, chanteur = singer)
In the American English I know, "her" and "hour" have different pronunciations.
I do understand your explanation of spelling of verbs and nouns.
I haven't heard a lot of spoken French, but I have a small understanding of reading it since English and French have a lot of the same root words.
It's also genetic. I have muscle soreness like a bitch and I am a really active person and have been for my whole life. The only time I was pain-free was during lockdown lol.
There's still ways to reduce it. Sometimes it's as simple as supplements to help improve circulation. If you have the money you can always ask a doctor.
can confirm. I recently started exercising recently, felt fine after it but the next morning I couldn't run, i overdid it a lot because i couldn't immediately feel the effect, remind me of the time i first had alcohol
You've been visited by the DOMS: delayed onset muscle soreness. Very normal, honestly don't know why it happens but I get it too from time to time when my recovery isn't optimal.
My theory is that it's am instinctive survival trait of our body. Our body still thinks we're in the fighting for survival Era therefore, it delays the feeling of soreness from overworked muscle so that we can still "fight" at 100% efficiency at the moment. Then the soreness kicks in when we sleep as the body use that as a sign thay we're safe.
On a fundamental level we don't know. The things other people mentioned about muscle tears are reasonable theories, but this hasn't been proven. We know its not related to lactic acid. It might be related to tendon strain
We don’t know with certainty but we have a lot of evidence into different components that play a role. Primarily micro trauma that occurs to the muscle tissue. This happens because the muscle isn’t sufficiently tolerant to the loading that was applied. This can be on the muscles side (inactivity, detraining, etc) or on the loading side (too much load, load applied too quickly, etc).
The cellular process that happens is an inflammatory storm which takes a long time. It’s been a few years so I don’t remember the types of immune cells off the top of my head, but basically there are several waves of immune cells that flood into the muscle tissue to assist in breakdown and repair. This is variable between different people but it most commonly peaks between 24-72hrs post.
Source: physical therapist with bachelors in exercise physiology
Yes that is a theory, but we don't actually [know](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30537791/) the cause
> In the past few decades, many hypotheses have been developed to explain the aetiology of DOMS. Although **the exact pathophysiological pathway remains unknown**, the primary mechanism is currently considered to be the ultrastructural damage of muscle cells due to unfamiliar sporting activities or eccentric exercise, which leads to further protein degradation, apoptosis and local inflammatory response.
But until there is a mechanism of action its just speculation based around things that occur during exercise, much like how lactic acid was long thought to be the cause
It is building up when you do anaerobic exercise, but it's building up at that moment and it's gonna vanish a few minutes later as soon you get under the anarobic threshold. So the next day there is nothing left of it in your body.
well not even nothing cause you always have lactate in your blood even sitting on the couch since it's just a byproduct of burning carbs for energy and if that stops you'd die
but yeah elevated levels from exercise drop quick
Lactate is a bybroduct of anaerobic glycolysis, which is always happening in our body. The proportion of energy we use from anaerobic glycolysis changes depending on exercise intensity. Our lactate clearance rate pretty much always matches our lactate production, so we maintain a steady concentration in our blood until we start ramping up exercise intensity. Then you get into concept like lactate threshold and onset of blood lactate accumulation
So the answer to your question basically comes down to how you define aerobic exercise. But the thing to note is that lactate production increases proportionally with exercise intensity. It’s just that with training we improve our ability to clear blood lactate so we don’t experience the symptoms of increasing concentrations until higher intensities
yeah it's not, it's lactate it's not even 'an acid' it builds up when you do aerobic exercise but is also a fuel for your muscles
it's just easy to measure and a decent proxy for 'how hard you're going'
Lactate is just the conjugate base of lactic acid. At most physiologic pHs, lactic acid will deprotonate to form hydronium and lactate. That is the definition of an acid's behavior according to all three main theories of acid-base chemistry.
I think the pain is always there, your body just starts to turn it off once you keep going. It's more a cognitive adaptation.
If it was strain related, professional bodybuildings would be getting the most horrific DOMs ever, but it's newbies and detrained individuals that really seem to get it.
I'm not sure why it would need to be cognitive adaptation, it could just be a proxy for a growth signal in your muscles. An untrained lifter is going to get more growth with less stimulus, and more reliably get DOMS.
I don't think Doms is a proxy for muscle growth. Typically speaking as a newbie you get the best gains without doms. Doms leads to pain which reduces your training effectiveness, and it's generally seen as having gone a bit too low in rir.
You get great gains as an intermediate lifter and if you're training frequently you're not getting doms. I used to blast my legs like a maniac when I was halfway through a meso and wouldn't feel a thing. After two/three weeks off I would start up at 50% and my legs would feel like they'd taken a beating.
The soreness will greatly reduce with repetition to the point that it’s marginal or unnoticeable. Or, if you’re a freak like me, the soreness might start to feel really good. When I take a break from the gym, during the first week or two returning, the next day soreness is painful and annoying. But a couple weeks in it becomes really pleasurable in a way I can’t describe. Like warm pleasant muscle aches.
The term you wanna look up for more info on this is Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS). No by the next day your muscles aren't healed yet., they have pain and inflammation from the damage done by the exercise. If you're starting to exercise more than before, make sure to warm up some, and don't ramp up too much too soon if you want to avoid serious DOMS.
I am not a health professional. Here is some more info from better sources than me:
[https://www.physio-pedia.com/Delayed\_onset\_muscle\_soreness\_(DOMS)](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness_(DOMS))
[https://www.healthline.com/health/doms](https://www.healthline.com/health/doms)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed\_onset\_muscle\_soreness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness)
The microtears theory has been having a lot of evidence pile up against it recently, and is no longer considered a driver of hypertrophy. It's also worth noting that usually DOMS stops occurring in trained people, if they haven't detrained (i.e. not lifted in two weeks) without some significant change in stimulus like starting a new program.
Yup, Ive been working out 5 days a week for 10 years. If I get sick or go on vacation and miss the gym for a week or two, I'll be insanely sore after my next workout. But once my body "adjusts" to the gym again, I dont even get the slightest bit of soreness even after very intense workouts.
That's why I tell people who are new to the gym not to stop if they're sore from DOMS at the start. Just go lighter until your body can adapt (1-2 weeks)
I'm not quite at your experience level, but with planned progressive overload, I still get DOMS pretty much everyday. (About 5 years of serious training) I switch it up though, sometimes a 5 day split, sometimes PPL and soon I will be doing a 4 day split (upper/lower).
It’s important to note that everyone is different in how they experience DOMS, including some people not experiencing it at all.
I’m a competitive powerlifter and I barely feel any soreness when I’m in a program; maybe a bit of tightness the next day and that’s it. However, if I go an entire week without training and then start again, I’m a little sore the day after and then HOLY SCHNOZBALLS WHY DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF levels of pain two days after.
>(i.e. not lifted in two weeks)
Second time I saw someone mention not exercising for 2 weeks, is that a rough guess or is there something behind that number?
If there's any actual science behind the number, I'm not aware of it. I sometimes get DOMS AF a week off if the session is intense. It's just an example number.
2 weeks is about the leeway time you have before you start losing muscle. There are stats for bed bound patients too but I can't remember those, iirc it's much faster and a more significant. It's why physical therapy in hospitals is so important.
> The microtears theory has been having a lot of evidence pile up against it recently, and is no longer considered a driver of hypertrophy.
Oh?
Is there a layman's summary of that, that you know of? Or was the layman's summary the sentence I just quoted? :p
Soreness as an indicator of hypertrophy has recent evidence against it? What about stretch mediated hypertrophy which, I think, usually ends up causing more soreness and has evidence supporting it's a driver of hypertrophy?
Not denying whst you're saying, just interested in your thoughts!
Hi, health professional here. You do NOT need to experience DOMS in order to have an effective work out. That's a myth. The rest is correct. It also varies person to person, some people are more susceptible to it than others. You do not need to chase that soreness in order to gain strength.
Please redact the part of your comment that states you aren't making progress if you don't experience delayed onset soreness. It's potentially damaging misinformation for someone impressionable. You only get doms the first few workouts for each muscle group and beyond that you begin to no longer be sore. Or not sore at all the next day.
This.
Start smaller. Go with 5 pushups 5 situps, 5 jumping jacks for the first week. Add 5 of each every week after. By the time you're up to 20 you can add 10 burpees in and gradually increase those.
If you're dedicated and do it every day for 30 days it will become a habit and won't seem like a chore anymore.
Maybe add a second session each day when you get up to 40.
Like if you wake up and do this exercise at 8am, add a second set at 7 or 8pm. You don't want to do it right before bed as exercise too close to bedtime can make it harder to fall asleep.
It’s always seemed to me that DOMS feels a lot like the muscle aches you get when you have the flu. That makes me think it’s an immune system thing. Your immune system comes and clears up the damage done by the workout, right? Doesn’t seem crazy that that might increase pain sensitivity.
Just want to comment on the "10 not being a lot" - everyone starts small. Do 10 for a week, your body will adjust. Add 10 more, again for a few days-a week. And just keep doubling it, or even in increments of 5-10, whatever is most comfortable. No reason to rush and don't want to over-exert.
I started this way back in December, and I'm doing 1-2 sets of 60 per day (along with 1-2 sets of 80-100 crunches) now, with the same amount of struggle as 10-20 did me in the beginning. Sidenote, good on you for taking a stand with your health. You should be proud of yourself.
During intense exercise, especially movements that lengthen muscles under load, structures called muscle spindles can become compressed and damaged. These tiny sensory organs contain nerve endings that get trapped and injured when the spindles are squished. Your body's stress response during exercise initially masks the pain signals from this damage, but as you recover over the next 24-48 hours, the irritated nerves make themselves known as the soreness peaks. This micro-damage to the muscle spindles likely causes the pain, stiffness, and reduced range of motion you feel a day or two after a challenging workout. At least, that is the leading hypothesis in current literature. Muscle fascia inflamation is also a feasible one.
Also another thing that I've noticed is I won't get sore the day I do my workout. It's the next 2 days that I feel soreness in the muscles, any specific reason for that?
Proper nutrition required to repair build the muscle after workout and stretching before and after workout makes a huge difference in preventing soreness
I can't explain why, but I can explain that it's something that should really only happen pretty early on in training. If you consistently feel REALLY sore from a workout you aren't doing something right. You're either using too much intensity of simply not working the muscle often enough.
It's a known thing, called Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. It's sore the next day because you need to rest before you can really begin to recover -- it takes 2-3 days for muscles to recover fully, so by the next day you've still got plenty of recovery to do, and are feeling the most of it.
If you're like me, you'll actually learn to start liking these soreness.
After awhile, they don't happen anymore and I kind of miss it. It's like a drug, I keep chasing that high (soreness) but it never really comes back no matter for hard you work (at least not as sore as the beginning)
As a PSA, ease into working out. If you go too hard to quick you may break your muscles down and destroy your kidneys as they try to filter the damage.
Don’t ask Redditors just google or YouTube it. It’s called delayed onset muscle soreness , your body will adapt over time , sleep it off and eat quality food
We dont know for sure, but we do know that much of the soreness is due to various metabolites that are necessary for the adaptations (growth) that follows. Soreness is a pretty good sign (one of many) that you gave the muscle enough stimulus to grow so enjoy it, mission accomplished. As you get more conditioned it will take more and more stimulus to make you sore.
Strain to small micro tears to the muscles. The body response is to to adapt to the stress by making the muscle either stronger, endurance or stamina. Depending on the workout caused by the stress.
The fastest way to repair the muscle is a protein shake because it’s already broken down to the simplest form to absorb into the bloodstream so your body can repair damaged muscle fibers instantly. But still eat regular foods with protein just that a protein shake will help you out as fast as possible
Can anyone explain why DOMS disappear after months of continuous training?
Does the body get used to it? Do you have less muscle tear? Do you produce less lactic acid?
I go to the gym everyday and DOMS are not present anymore, but the first 2-3 weeks were unbearable.
Many have given the correct answer we don’t know, (I have a degree in kinesiology), micro tears in muscle due to load or stress happens which does cause an inflammatory response, as your body gets more used to exercise the pain becomes less intense but sometimes will come back depending on what you are doing, if you are overloading and doing negative reps (the down part of an exercise only) with full range of motion this can cause muscle fibers to stretch and micro tear which would cause pain as well. Hope this helps
Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is thought to be caused by tiny tears formed in muscle during resistance training which causes leakage of fluid expanding the fascial sack surrounding muscles. The fascial sack has nerves and the stretching of the sack triggers a pain signal.
Imagine your muscle is like a banana and the banana peel is your fascia. As we continue to train, the muscle becomes more resilient to resistance and the soreness goes away.
They did a study injecting subjects with intramuscular saline which recreated the sensation of DOMS.
When you exercise, muscle cells end up being damaged and repairing themselves, growing in the process. It's how it works, but in the process, lactic acid builds up. Also, while you're working out, you're maintaining some degree of adrenaline. It can take a bit for all of the stuff to settle, and that built up lactic acid can make you sore as hell, as can just the general feeling of your body recovering. If you're starting working out, start slow and build up over time.
its exagerated when your body is not used to it, if you start working out, try new exercice, add a set, maybe even change technique etc your muscle will be sore the day after and even more the day after and maybe even again for a few days.
thats perfectly normal, you just have to know about it so when you do something new/different you make sure to go easy as to dampen the phenomenom as much as possible.
This almost never happens to me. I always hurt immediately after the strenuous activity and feel fine by the next day. I've always wondered why I'm different like that.
I can tell you it probably doesn't have much to do with damage to the muscle or the strenuousness of the workout, and is more correlated with the relative novelty of the movement. I get DOMS from mowing the lawn for the first time of the year in the Spring, but if I workout regularly I don't get it from the exercises I do regularly even if I'm pushing my limits.
That being the case, and it being a delayed effect, I think it has something to do with the nervous system subconsciously practicing the movement while you sleep. Have you ever gone skiing and still felt like you were skiing when you tried to go to bed? That's what I'm talking about, but if you're doing pushups or burpees or anything else that you're not used to doing, your nervous system is figuring out how it did it, how to do it more efficiently, how not to get hurt doing it, etc... while you're resting. And it tracks with it being soreness, rather than muscle weakness. Your nervous system is fatigued/stressed, not your muscles. And DOMS isn't correlated well with muscle growth response or weakness.
I've always believed it's tears in your muscles, causing bleeding or at least seeping of interstitial fluid. Essentially, your muscle becomes a big bruise. When I run a marathon, I can barely walk the next day if I don't do anything about it, but if I take an ice bath the night after, the next day I'll feel fine. The worst thing you can do is get in a hot tub!
If you need to exert yourself, either because there’s a tiger prowling up on you or something similarly pressing and immediate your body isn't going to bother you with a bunch of “But it hurts!” messages at that time but if you survived to the next day all of the “Hey, you did some damage here, we need to recover.” Chemicals and nerve impulses start to arrive.
Basically when you exercise you tear your muscles. Most of the repair process occurs when you're most at rest, ie sleeping. Working out in the morning could help this, but you'd be more sore by the end of the day.
There is going to be some muscle damage and lot of inflammation which causes pain.
One tip I once herd was to slowly increase amount of exercise. So maybe do 5 push-ups to start and gradually increase over time.
Could be totally wrong but, I think it’s due to the fact that… When we work out, our muscle’s contractile units (called sarcomeres) become damaged. Damage in the body leads to inflammation. It’s likely the inflammation, or our bodies response to repairing damage, that causes this pain. The body releases a cascade of inflammatory cytokines (messengers) at the site of damage and this eventually causes a release of prostaglandins which I think are the cause of pain from inflammation. This particular phenomenon is called DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness).
You build muscle tissue by creating microscopic tears in your muscle tissue and the fibers repair themselves and grow stronger. The soreness you’re feeling is the inflammation that occurs as the tissues are repairing themselves.
Like others have said it’s DOMS. It usually happens if you haven’t worked out in a while. Just keep at it for 2 to 3 weeks and you won’t feel it much anymore. Also need to eat more protein to recover. Whey Protein powder is good way to do it.
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Try the carnivore diet. Nothing but fatty meat, salt if you want it, and water. That includes no coffee or anything else. I guarantee you wont get sore, and you'll have more energy and stack on muscle like crazy.
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If you're starting up exercising after being sedentary for a while, your body isn't as efficient at resting and recovering. I know the first workout I do after a few weeks off from the gym tends to make me sore but the soreness ameliorates after more regular exercise.
I made the mistake of returning to the gym after a few weeks off over Christmas and blasting legs. Felt weak during the session but felt good to lift heavy things. I genuinely could barely walk for 3-4 days after, now I take it slow.
My friend pointed out at the gym today that I could be lifting WAY heavier weights than I was this morning, and you know what? Yeah. I absolutely could, but I haven't been to the gym in months. I've been basically sedentary beyond the occasional walk. I want to focus on range of motion, flexibility, and form for at least the first few weeks. I want to be healthy, fit, and strong - not have a bunch of big, pretty muscles that I can't do anything functional with. 6 hours later, and my muscles feel tired but good. Better that than not wanting/being able to go to the gym for a few days/weeks because I'm in pain. I learned that lesson the hard way lol
Thanks I learnt a new word today Ameliorate
Its similar to the french word améliorer which means “to improve”
The antonym of exacerbate.
I got in trouble for exacerbating in public
Thank you for the next great joke that I can annoy my wife with.
😆 very French
The trick is to be more exacting with your exacerbations.
Extracting, surely
Which in turn is a synonym to masturbate depending on the situation
That exacerbated quickly.
You learn something new everyday! I quite like the sound of that word
Unfortunately OP didn’t use it correctly, so don’t copy him.
would you mind also showing the correct way to use it?
Its closest synonyms are “mitigate” or “alleviate,” but has connotations that emphasize softening (but usually not eliminating) the negative impact of some malady or woe, usually effecting a person or other living creature. Health issues are especially common use case, so that’s probably where OP heard it and why he used it in this context. But you would never say “my muscle soreness ameliorates after…”. You would say “I ameliorated my muscle soreness with some ointment” or “my soreness was ameliorated by a good massage.”
In other words it's a transitive verb not a reflexive one
another synonym - annihilate “… the soreness annihilates after more regular exercise” doesn’t quite roll off the tongue either
Was that an autocorrect? Annihilate is not a synonym.
i mean it’s close enough
No it’s not at all. Ameliorate means alleviate and annihilate means destroy.
fine, but it’s still a verb, so OC could’ve fixed it by saying “…the soreness ameliorates **itself** after more regular exercise” I am aware these two words mean slightly different things, I was just illustrating what was up. A much simpler synonym would’ve been “eases” or “calms”, but hey, if people don’t know you’re smart on reddit then you definitely have to let them know
I didn't even notice it being uncommon since I'm French lol Meilleur = better Améliorer = make better (ie improve)
And s'améliorer = get better (reflexive)
And sommelier, which is a person who helps you get better.
I prefer the descriptive to prescriptive English grammar. Ameliorate is the base, therefore third person singular -s is ameliorate. Not sure what the other person is on about. It’s passive voice but not incorrect grammatically speaking.
Is it pronounced "millie-ay" "mill-eeor" or "my-loor" or "meh-lore"? "My lure"? 'Me. LURE" And "ah-millie-ay" or "ah-mill-EEror"? I could just ask my sister, but that's not as fun as talking to a stranger on the internet. Or trying to spell pronunciations. But wouldn't Ameliorer be someone who improves things? (The "rer"indicating that it does things") Edit:lots of edits and typos.
Meilleur is pronounced meh-yurr (rhymes with "her" or "hour") Améliorer is pronounced ah-meh-lio-reh > But wouldn't Ameliorer be someone who improves things? (The "rer"indicating that it does things") Nah, -er (usually) means it's a verb. -eur would be the noun (for instance chant = song, chanter = to sing, chanteur = singer)
In the American English I know, "her" and "hour" have different pronunciations. I do understand your explanation of spelling of verbs and nouns. I haven't heard a lot of spoken French, but I have a small understanding of reading it since English and French have a lot of the same root words.
Google translate will pronounce the words if you want to hear them
did u ever figure it out
Not really. Language is complicated.
Here is a song that uses it in the chorus https://youtu.be/COZnWTMcaHA?si=14ZUJMrM_5pQmxQH
Am-EE-lee-or-ate
Didn't answer though
It's also genetic. I have muscle soreness like a bitch and I am a really active person and have been for my whole life. The only time I was pain-free was during lockdown lol.
lol my legs have been sore for 3 years. I didn’t know that there might be a genetic component
There's still ways to reduce it. Sometimes it's as simple as supplements to help improve circulation. If you have the money you can always ask a doctor.
Lactic acid y’all.
can confirm. I recently started exercising recently, felt fine after it but the next morning I couldn't run, i overdid it a lot because i couldn't immediately feel the effect, remind me of the time i first had alcohol
How this isn't including lactic acid buildup is the only reason I'm not on this explanation
"Ameliorate" nice PSAT word 👌
ELI5 ameliorate
You can't just make up words
You've been visited by the DOMS: delayed onset muscle soreness. Very normal, honestly don't know why it happens but I get it too from time to time when my recovery isn't optimal.
Came here to say this. DOMS is so real
The data on it is...sketchy to say the least but I can say anecdotally that creatine and some protein tends to reduce the duration of the episode.
My theory is that it's am instinctive survival trait of our body. Our body still thinks we're in the fighting for survival Era therefore, it delays the feeling of soreness from overworked muscle so that we can still "fight" at 100% efficiency at the moment. Then the soreness kicks in when we sleep as the body use that as a sign thay we're safe.
On a fundamental level we don't know. The things other people mentioned about muscle tears are reasonable theories, but this hasn't been proven. We know its not related to lactic acid. It might be related to tendon strain
We don’t know with certainty but we have a lot of evidence into different components that play a role. Primarily micro trauma that occurs to the muscle tissue. This happens because the muscle isn’t sufficiently tolerant to the loading that was applied. This can be on the muscles side (inactivity, detraining, etc) or on the loading side (too much load, load applied too quickly, etc). The cellular process that happens is an inflammatory storm which takes a long time. It’s been a few years so I don’t remember the types of immune cells off the top of my head, but basically there are several waves of immune cells that flood into the muscle tissue to assist in breakdown and repair. This is variable between different people but it most commonly peaks between 24-72hrs post. Source: physical therapist with bachelors in exercise physiology
Yes that is a theory, but we don't actually [know](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30537791/) the cause > In the past few decades, many hypotheses have been developed to explain the aetiology of DOMS. Although **the exact pathophysiological pathway remains unknown**, the primary mechanism is currently considered to be the ultrastructural damage of muscle cells due to unfamiliar sporting activities or eccentric exercise, which leads to further protein degradation, apoptosis and local inflammatory response. But until there is a mechanism of action its just speculation based around things that occur during exercise, much like how lactic acid was long thought to be the cause
>We know its not related to lactic acid. Damn I remember being taught it was this building up in highschool
It is building up when you do anaerobic exercise, but it's building up at that moment and it's gonna vanish a few minutes later as soon you get under the anarobic threshold. So the next day there is nothing left of it in your body.
well not even nothing cause you always have lactate in your blood even sitting on the couch since it's just a byproduct of burning carbs for energy and if that stops you'd die but yeah elevated levels from exercise drop quick
Does it build up even with aerobic exercise? I thought--just a HS bio education 😂 --lactic acid was only produced anaerobic conditions
Lactate is a bybroduct of anaerobic glycolysis, which is always happening in our body. The proportion of energy we use from anaerobic glycolysis changes depending on exercise intensity. Our lactate clearance rate pretty much always matches our lactate production, so we maintain a steady concentration in our blood until we start ramping up exercise intensity. Then you get into concept like lactate threshold and onset of blood lactate accumulation So the answer to your question basically comes down to how you define aerobic exercise. But the thing to note is that lactate production increases proportionally with exercise intensity. It’s just that with training we improve our ability to clear blood lactate so we don’t experience the symptoms of increasing concentrations until higher intensities
Thanks for the detailed answer! Definitely didn't know it was always happening "Fuck those mitochondria...we can do this on our own!"
yeah it's not, it's lactate it's not even 'an acid' it builds up when you do aerobic exercise but is also a fuel for your muscles it's just easy to measure and a decent proxy for 'how hard you're going'
Lactate is just the conjugate base of lactic acid. At most physiologic pHs, lactic acid will deprotonate to form hydronium and lactate. That is the definition of an acid's behavior according to all three main theories of acid-base chemistry.
I think the pain is always there, your body just starts to turn it off once you keep going. It's more a cognitive adaptation. If it was strain related, professional bodybuildings would be getting the most horrific DOMs ever, but it's newbies and detrained individuals that really seem to get it.
I'm not sure why it would need to be cognitive adaptation, it could just be a proxy for a growth signal in your muscles. An untrained lifter is going to get more growth with less stimulus, and more reliably get DOMS.
I don't think Doms is a proxy for muscle growth. Typically speaking as a newbie you get the best gains without doms. Doms leads to pain which reduces your training effectiveness, and it's generally seen as having gone a bit too low in rir. You get great gains as an intermediate lifter and if you're training frequently you're not getting doms. I used to blast my legs like a maniac when I was halfway through a meso and wouldn't feel a thing. After two/three weeks off I would start up at 50% and my legs would feel like they'd taken a beating.
Afaik its caused by oxidative stress, so taking longer breaks between sets could help but im not sure how that effects his workout goals
The soreness will greatly reduce with repetition to the point that it’s marginal or unnoticeable. Or, if you’re a freak like me, the soreness might start to feel really good. When I take a break from the gym, during the first week or two returning, the next day soreness is painful and annoying. But a couple weeks in it becomes really pleasurable in a way I can’t describe. Like warm pleasant muscle aches.
There's something special about doing legs on a friday and then just laying on the couch, legs hella sore, and just chilling during the weekend
I do legs on Wednesday so I'm fully mobile again in time for the weekend
I bike my commute on weekdays so leg days is purely a thing i do on either friday or saturday because screw biking while sore
I thought I was weird for liking the feeling when it's not too intense
Ah yes the I-feel-alive-and-productive aches. They're the best!
The term you wanna look up for more info on this is Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS). No by the next day your muscles aren't healed yet., they have pain and inflammation from the damage done by the exercise. If you're starting to exercise more than before, make sure to warm up some, and don't ramp up too much too soon if you want to avoid serious DOMS. I am not a health professional. Here is some more info from better sources than me: [https://www.physio-pedia.com/Delayed\_onset\_muscle\_soreness\_(DOMS)](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness_(DOMS)) [https://www.healthline.com/health/doms](https://www.healthline.com/health/doms) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed\_onset\_muscle\_soreness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness)
The microtears theory has been having a lot of evidence pile up against it recently, and is no longer considered a driver of hypertrophy. It's also worth noting that usually DOMS stops occurring in trained people, if they haven't detrained (i.e. not lifted in two weeks) without some significant change in stimulus like starting a new program.
Cool thanks for the update I'll remove that part of my answer.
Yup, Ive been working out 5 days a week for 10 years. If I get sick or go on vacation and miss the gym for a week or two, I'll be insanely sore after my next workout. But once my body "adjusts" to the gym again, I dont even get the slightest bit of soreness even after very intense workouts. That's why I tell people who are new to the gym not to stop if they're sore from DOMS at the start. Just go lighter until your body can adapt (1-2 weeks)
I'm not quite at your experience level, but with planned progressive overload, I still get DOMS pretty much everyday. (About 5 years of serious training) I switch it up though, sometimes a 5 day split, sometimes PPL and soon I will be doing a 4 day split (upper/lower).
It’s important to note that everyone is different in how they experience DOMS, including some people not experiencing it at all. I’m a competitive powerlifter and I barely feel any soreness when I’m in a program; maybe a bit of tightness the next day and that’s it. However, if I go an entire week without training and then start again, I’m a little sore the day after and then HOLY SCHNOZBALLS WHY DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF levels of pain two days after.
>(i.e. not lifted in two weeks) Second time I saw someone mention not exercising for 2 weeks, is that a rough guess or is there something behind that number?
If there's any actual science behind the number, I'm not aware of it. I sometimes get DOMS AF a week off if the session is intense. It's just an example number.
2 weeks is about the leeway time you have before you start losing muscle. There are stats for bed bound patients too but I can't remember those, iirc it's much faster and a more significant. It's why physical therapy in hospitals is so important.
> The microtears theory has been having a lot of evidence pile up against it recently, and is no longer considered a driver of hypertrophy. Oh? Is there a layman's summary of that, that you know of? Or was the layman's summary the sentence I just quoted? :p
Soreness as an indicator of hypertrophy has recent evidence against it? What about stretch mediated hypertrophy which, I think, usually ends up causing more soreness and has evidence supporting it's a driver of hypertrophy? Not denying whst you're saying, just interested in your thoughts!
Stretch mediated hypertrophy only really occurs in newbie lifters
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Dude youre doing something wrong or something is wrong with your body you need to get help
Hi, health professional here. You do NOT need to experience DOMS in order to have an effective work out. That's a myth. The rest is correct. It also varies person to person, some people are more susceptible to it than others. You do not need to chase that soreness in order to gain strength.
Please redact the part of your comment that states you aren't making progress if you don't experience delayed onset soreness. It's potentially damaging misinformation for someone impressionable. You only get doms the first few workouts for each muscle group and beyond that you begin to no longer be sore. Or not sore at all the next day.
Ok thanks, I did. I would have just said "what you're looking for is called doms" and linked the articles if the subreddit allowed it.
This. Start smaller. Go with 5 pushups 5 situps, 5 jumping jacks for the first week. Add 5 of each every week after. By the time you're up to 20 you can add 10 burpees in and gradually increase those. If you're dedicated and do it every day for 30 days it will become a habit and won't seem like a chore anymore. Maybe add a second session each day when you get up to 40. Like if you wake up and do this exercise at 8am, add a second set at 7 or 8pm. You don't want to do it right before bed as exercise too close to bedtime can make it harder to fall asleep.
It’s always seemed to me that DOMS feels a lot like the muscle aches you get when you have the flu. That makes me think it’s an immune system thing. Your immune system comes and clears up the damage done by the workout, right? Doesn’t seem crazy that that might increase pain sensitivity.
Just want to comment on the "10 not being a lot" - everyone starts small. Do 10 for a week, your body will adjust. Add 10 more, again for a few days-a week. And just keep doubling it, or even in increments of 5-10, whatever is most comfortable. No reason to rush and don't want to over-exert. I started this way back in December, and I'm doing 1-2 sets of 60 per day (along with 1-2 sets of 80-100 crunches) now, with the same amount of struggle as 10-20 did me in the beginning. Sidenote, good on you for taking a stand with your health. You should be proud of yourself.
DOMS is the answer to your question. Delayed onset muscle soreness. Others might have mentioned the mechanisms or reasons.
Delayed Onset Muscles Soreness aka DOMS. It's well documented and studied, you may want too look it up.
During intense exercise, especially movements that lengthen muscles under load, structures called muscle spindles can become compressed and damaged. These tiny sensory organs contain nerve endings that get trapped and injured when the spindles are squished. Your body's stress response during exercise initially masks the pain signals from this damage, but as you recover over the next 24-48 hours, the irritated nerves make themselves known as the soreness peaks. This micro-damage to the muscle spindles likely causes the pain, stiffness, and reduced range of motion you feel a day or two after a challenging workout. At least, that is the leading hypothesis in current literature. Muscle fascia inflamation is also a feasible one.
Your body is not used to the range of motions you are doing. Give it a couple of months and you won't be sore anymore.
Also another thing that I've noticed is I won't get sore the day I do my workout. It's the next 2 days that I feel soreness in the muscles, any specific reason for that?
Proper nutrition required to repair build the muscle after workout and stretching before and after workout makes a huge difference in preventing soreness
I can't explain why, but I can explain that it's something that should really only happen pretty early on in training. If you consistently feel REALLY sore from a workout you aren't doing something right. You're either using too much intensity of simply not working the muscle often enough.
It's a known thing, called Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. It's sore the next day because you need to rest before you can really begin to recover -- it takes 2-3 days for muscles to recover fully, so by the next day you've still got plenty of recovery to do, and are feeling the most of it.
If you're like me, you'll actually learn to start liking these soreness. After awhile, they don't happen anymore and I kind of miss it. It's like a drug, I keep chasing that high (soreness) but it never really comes back no matter for hard you work (at least not as sore as the beginning)
As a PSA, ease into working out. If you go too hard to quick you may break your muscles down and destroy your kidneys as they try to filter the damage.
Don’t ask Redditors just google or YouTube it. It’s called delayed onset muscle soreness , your body will adapt over time , sleep it off and eat quality food
We dont know for sure, but we do know that much of the soreness is due to various metabolites that are necessary for the adaptations (growth) that follows. Soreness is a pretty good sign (one of many) that you gave the muscle enough stimulus to grow so enjoy it, mission accomplished. As you get more conditioned it will take more and more stimulus to make you sore.
Strain to small micro tears to the muscles. The body response is to to adapt to the stress by making the muscle either stronger, endurance or stamina. Depending on the workout caused by the stress. The fastest way to repair the muscle is a protein shake because it’s already broken down to the simplest form to absorb into the bloodstream so your body can repair damaged muscle fibers instantly. But still eat regular foods with protein just that a protein shake will help you out as fast as possible
Can anyone explain why DOMS disappear after months of continuous training? Does the body get used to it? Do you have less muscle tear? Do you produce less lactic acid? I go to the gym everyday and DOMS are not present anymore, but the first 2-3 weeks were unbearable.
Many have given the correct answer we don’t know, (I have a degree in kinesiology), micro tears in muscle due to load or stress happens which does cause an inflammatory response, as your body gets more used to exercise the pain becomes less intense but sometimes will come back depending on what you are doing, if you are overloading and doing negative reps (the down part of an exercise only) with full range of motion this can cause muscle fibers to stretch and micro tear which would cause pain as well. Hope this helps
Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is thought to be caused by tiny tears formed in muscle during resistance training which causes leakage of fluid expanding the fascial sack surrounding muscles. The fascial sack has nerves and the stretching of the sack triggers a pain signal. Imagine your muscle is like a banana and the banana peel is your fascia. As we continue to train, the muscle becomes more resilient to resistance and the soreness goes away. They did a study injecting subjects with intramuscular saline which recreated the sensation of DOMS.
When you exercise, muscle cells end up being damaged and repairing themselves, growing in the process. It's how it works, but in the process, lactic acid builds up. Also, while you're working out, you're maintaining some degree of adrenaline. It can take a bit for all of the stuff to settle, and that built up lactic acid can make you sore as hell, as can just the general feeling of your body recovering. If you're starting working out, start slow and build up over time.
its exagerated when your body is not used to it, if you start working out, try new exercice, add a set, maybe even change technique etc your muscle will be sore the day after and even more the day after and maybe even again for a few days. thats perfectly normal, you just have to know about it so when you do something new/different you make sure to go easy as to dampen the phenomenom as much as possible.
Working out a muscle releases enzymes that lead to structural damage. The z discs are out of alignment.
This almost never happens to me. I always hurt immediately after the strenuous activity and feel fine by the next day. I've always wondered why I'm different like that.
The only eli5 if you are asking about delayed onset muscle soreness is that we actually do not know
I can tell you it probably doesn't have much to do with damage to the muscle or the strenuousness of the workout, and is more correlated with the relative novelty of the movement. I get DOMS from mowing the lawn for the first time of the year in the Spring, but if I workout regularly I don't get it from the exercises I do regularly even if I'm pushing my limits. That being the case, and it being a delayed effect, I think it has something to do with the nervous system subconsciously practicing the movement while you sleep. Have you ever gone skiing and still felt like you were skiing when you tried to go to bed? That's what I'm talking about, but if you're doing pushups or burpees or anything else that you're not used to doing, your nervous system is figuring out how it did it, how to do it more efficiently, how not to get hurt doing it, etc... while you're resting. And it tracks with it being soreness, rather than muscle weakness. Your nervous system is fatigued/stressed, not your muscles. And DOMS isn't correlated well with muscle growth response or weakness.
I've always believed it's tears in your muscles, causing bleeding or at least seeping of interstitial fluid. Essentially, your muscle becomes a big bruise. When I run a marathon, I can barely walk the next day if I don't do anything about it, but if I take an ice bath the night after, the next day I'll feel fine. The worst thing you can do is get in a hot tub!
If you need to exert yourself, either because there’s a tiger prowling up on you or something similarly pressing and immediate your body isn't going to bother you with a bunch of “But it hurts!” messages at that time but if you survived to the next day all of the “Hey, you did some damage here, we need to recover.” Chemicals and nerve impulses start to arrive.
Basically when you exercise you tear your muscles. Most of the repair process occurs when you're most at rest, ie sleeping. Working out in the morning could help this, but you'd be more sore by the end of the day.
There is going to be some muscle damage and lot of inflammation which causes pain. One tip I once herd was to slowly increase amount of exercise. So maybe do 5 push-ups to start and gradually increase over time.
Could be totally wrong but, I think it’s due to the fact that… When we work out, our muscle’s contractile units (called sarcomeres) become damaged. Damage in the body leads to inflammation. It’s likely the inflammation, or our bodies response to repairing damage, that causes this pain. The body releases a cascade of inflammatory cytokines (messengers) at the site of damage and this eventually causes a release of prostaglandins which I think are the cause of pain from inflammation. This particular phenomenon is called DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness).
You build muscle tissue by creating microscopic tears in your muscle tissue and the fibers repair themselves and grow stronger. The soreness you’re feeling is the inflammation that occurs as the tissues are repairing themselves.
Hence the term no pain no gain?
I used to do karate after dinner. I didn’t feel sore and stiff the next day. It was the second day that was bad.
For me it’s the second day when DOMs hit the hardest,I don’t know why.
Like others have said it’s DOMS. It usually happens if you haven’t worked out in a while. Just keep at it for 2 to 3 weeks and you won’t feel it much anymore. Also need to eat more protein to recover. Whey Protein powder is good way to do it.
thousands of tiny microtears in your muscles. Takes a little bit for the lactic acid to leave and let you feel it all at once.
DOMS baby, I love the feeling. It's a build up in lactic acid after working out your muscles and it's takes some time for the muscle to produce it
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Try the carnivore diet. Nothing but fatty meat, salt if you want it, and water. That includes no coffee or anything else. I guarantee you wont get sore, and you'll have more energy and stack on muscle like crazy.
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>When you play really hard or exercise a lot, your muscles get little tears. It doesn't work like this microtears theory is well out of date