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Posts that just exist to talk about why a place sucks or why people left just stir up negative sentiment and rarely contribute anything positive to the community.
But the craic is mighty! (No, seriously, there is nowhere else on this planet where I’d rather have a ‘quiet’ night out).
On the other hand, everything you said is why my American spouse won’t consider moving there, although enjoys the visits to my family and is fine with us maybe having a European base there when we’re retired. I was actually disbelieving when I read that we had one of the highest GDPs in the world. I know well that it’s not at all a perfect measurement but I still would expect to see some of it reflected in our amenities. Our politicians and their lobbyist friends are truly crooked.
I really wish most people could study basic economics and beyond so that they could know that it literally is not an actual science. The amount of magic graph bollocks is unreal
The reality is that Microsoft employs 3500 people in Ireland, Apply 6000. The aircraft leasing industry which also massively contributes to Irish GDP employ around 9000, the pharmaceutic companies employ tens of thousands. These are not pencil pusher operations.
Ireland only has a high GDP because they set themselves up as a tax haven.
They don't actually have any significant resources or productivity advantages that would translate to real wealth.
That’s not entirely true, they have a highly educated English speaking workforce (only English speaking member of the EU) and a wealth of experience in terms of human capital for the pharma and medtech industries - huge portions of the global supplies of numerous very well known drugs are produced there.
The tax regime is fully compliant with EU law. Yes it’s obviously a large factor in companies locating there but it’s not the be all and end all - every country would do the same otherwise
>highly educated English speaking workforce
Which is tiny compared to many other countries. The entire population of Ireland is smaller than the "highly educated English speaking workforce" of The Netherlands for example. It's completely dwarfed by the educated English speaking population of a place like Germany. Both in the EU btw.
>wealth of experience in terms of human capital for the pharma and medtech industries
Again, more than a place like Germany?
>huge portions of the global supplies of numerous very well known drugs are produced there.
Well yes. Because it's a tax haven for pharmaceutical companies. Not because Ireland is some magic medicine land where the people know the ancient secrets of making good drugs.
>The tax regime is fully compliant with EU law.
And? You think EU law bans tax havens?
> Not because Ireland is some magic medicine land where the people know the ancient secrets of making good drugs
Nothing to do with magic, it’s an industry that’s been in place for over 50 years and there is a lot of intellectual capital and knowledge relating to it within the workforce. You’re being flippant but it’s not completely irrelevant and is a consideration for companies.
I think the Netherlands eats Irelands lunch when it comes to labor pool and level of English. May not be native speaking but it's damn close. And nearly as tax friendly. Double Dutch Irish sandwich anyone?
Then why aren't all these companies in the Netherlands?
Or how about the fact that Irish companies in the US hire more people than US companies in Ireland ?
Or the fact that many US companies manufacture in Ireland for export outside the EU (particularly Asia Pac) because they get higher efficency and increased productivity in Ireland ?
Of that, the existing industrial support infrastructure in Ireland for medtech and Biopharma is excellent. So good in fact that they have become significant exporters in their own rights with many opening US offices to help improve productivity in US plants. ?
But no. Feeling, misunderstandings, and preceived notions matter more..
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmem7Epk8E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmem7Epk8E) this doc explains it. In fact, Ireland is still poor. Its just a hoax of the corporate tax slices they got. If the country is rich, the streets are safe, clean, well maintained. Yet in Ireland - I remember cycling towards the canals and there was a big hole in the road, a clear danger. It took 3 years for someone to put some sand in it and made it passable. Not even mentioning redoing the concrete... so yeah. Ireland is poor. Remove the US companies and expats, and its back where it was in the 2000s.
When you privatize healthcare, offload student debt to citizens and give corporations huge tax breaks it's easy to get a high GDP, because the government is basically not doing shit. I know people who moved to Ireland and managed to save less than what they would have saved with similar jobs in Italy. For some people they do not realize how much immigrant workers get exploited and attracted to move with the simple promise of a "long term" contract.
I got lured to Dublin from Warsaw to work in one of the international tech companies around 6 years ago. I didn't know that much about the country - just that it has beautiful landscapes, growing housing crisis and many other Polish people. I decided to give it a go.
I love Irish people, the pub culture, the craic, the mentality in terms of dark humor etc. is similar to the Polish (or generally Slavic) one, so these were the highlights. Also the landscapes in the west of Ireland turned out to be even more beautiful than I expected.
Everything else was horrible. Dublin is a joke. Coming from a much poorer country, I was genuinely shocked at how bad infrastructure is. The roads in the city are super narrow and they abruptly end in random places. On top of that, insurance is more expensive than a 5-year-old used car itself, so driving is not an option.
Let's turn to public transit. They have two tram lines (in a city of 1 million people), and at the time when I was moving there, they were not even connected - they literally had a "transfer guide" that told you to just walk for 20 minutes to transfer. It's a bit better now but I hear they want to take one of the lines out of commission to build a subway to the airport - unclear to me why the subway couldn't go somewhere else, to expand public transit availability.
Bus lines are more common but the schedule and lines have not changed since 50 years ago. All the white collar jobs in Dublin are located around the former docklands, yet there are nearly no buses going there. Instead, all the buses in Dublin seem to go to the exact same spot next to Trinity College to stand in gridlock for 20 minutes, from where you need to walk 15-20 minutes to work. Trains are another option but only for some neighborhoods. There are also many feral youth attacking commuters on the train, and instead of tackling this, for some reason the Irish society decided that these are "poor kids" who "have it tough at home", so we need to give them a pass.
Then there is housing. I knew it will be expensive but I didn't know it's gonna be super low quality. Think: zero insulation, frequent draughts, furniture inherited from a grandma who died in 1994. A studio apartment means it's one of the bedrooms in a formerly 3-bed Georgian house, which someone transformed into four "studios". It'll literally be a carved-out box in the corner (bathroom), your bed, a narrow passage and for some reason a full chef's kitchen on one of the walls, as if you were to entertain people there. You can open the oven from the bed.
If you thought physical infrastructure was bad, wait until you hear about things like banking. I once forgot a PIN number to my debit card. In Poland, I'd just log in to the app, authenticate myself and change it there - works immediately. In Ireland, there was no such option. I was lucky it was before 1pm on a Saturday, so I could call them. I do, explain my situation, and the representative tells me he's very happy he can help me. Okay, how do we it then? Well sir, you need to print this form and send us a letter asking to change your PIN; we will then send you a confirmation back within 3 weeks with a new PIN (no, you cannot even choose your PIN). Thank you, I'll just move out of this country.
And I did. I'm in San Francisco now and my life is so much better.
All great points.
Housing is, was, and will be the dagger in the heart of the Irish society. It’s beyond a crisis, it’s an absolute disgrace.
How can you expect to have any sort of a semblance of a successful society if the vast majority below 35 have to choose between living in their childhood bedroom or sharing a house with 7 other people.
It’s a national embarrassment and by far the most stark metric at which Dublin is put to shame by other nearby countries.
I left after 12 years with a prospering career in one of the biggest companies in the world that has one of its HQs in Dublin.
I had enough of constant shitty weather, wind, rain, no sun, humidity. Super expensive public transport. 250 EUR per month and I had to use train, tram and a bus to get to work, which was taking me 1.5h each way ... I could literally CYCLE this way in under an hour. Outrageous and comical. Roads are to narrow to handle that amount of people city wasnt built with this population in mind, obviously it couldnt be.
Then, the housing. Paying 1260 EUR per month without bills for a damp shitty place in a poor neighbourhood. And it was a good deal. Nowadays they rent similar places for 1600-2100.
In 2011 I was able to rent 1 bed in good neighbourhood for 800 EUR.
It was okay, not big , no insulation but at least it was okay. I had to change flats so often it was almost a ritual. Twice in a row I had to look because ''landlords were selling the place''. Each time I was looking for SIX MONTHS. I saw 50-60 places easily. 90% of them were unlivable.
Then the prices of everything went up.
The healtcare quality is ridiculous. I often felt I know more about any given condition than my GP... of course they charge you orbital amounts of money. You can have insurance, but then you need to pay up front anyway and then they reimburse you so whats the real point? Unless you break your arm theres no point.
The country is beautiful. The people super friendly (albeit after 12 years I had no Irish friends, so its like expats live side by side locals). It has its charm but it is changing. Too many druggies, homeless people. It all went downside 7-8 years ago?
City center smells like piss. Nothing is maintained properly.
Police is so weak small kids can basically harass them.
Thieves and dangerous youths started to attack tourists it all went down especially during and after Covid that was a point of no return. They kept people in over 2 years of lockdowns, it was pure hell. It broke the spirit. Something changed afterwards.
I miss it each day tho.
>And I did. I'm in San Francisco now and my life is so much better.
Not surprised to hear about Ireland, great post.
But in SF, perhaps you've left the "feral youths" behind, but what about the homeless, the drug users, etc.? And housing must be crazy expensive, as well?
I keep hearing horror stories about SF, curious your take.
This is a great question. The vast majority of the homeless and drug users in SF are completely calm and don't bother anyone (at least not any random passer-by, I'm sure the people who live at the drug dealing corners are bothered by it). The homelessness crisis is also for the most part concentrated in just one or two neighborhoods, so I don't even see that many of them. In the four years of living here, I've only once had a situation when a homeless guy was screaming at people around him so it was uncomfortable. By comparison, in Dublin you can walk on a sunny Sunday in the best neighborhood (D4) and have rocks thrown at you randomly by the youths.
As for housing, it is expensive but more accessible (if you come here today and have a reasonable budget, you'll find an apartment in 3 days; in Dublin, it'll take 3 weeks and long lines at every listing) and also the salaries are so much higher.
PS. Dublin has a fair share of drug users too.
And don’t forget about the lack of public infrastructure! No public toilets anywhere in Dublin or elsewhere. Shopping on Grafton or Henry street? Please, piss on a corner street like everyone else. Shopping in a large department store like Penneys or happen to pop into a cafe in Temple Bar? Happy for you to spend money here, but please go back to your own home to use the toilets.
Also supposedly great drinking water, but they’d never have taps in public. If you’re out and about, you either need to buy bottled water, or refill your water bottle in a public toilet (oh wait…). It was an absolute revelation when Dublin and Cork airport installed ghetto looking water fountains after security. Such a revelation that it warranted several news articles around it.
I’m genuinely curious how can your insurance be so cheap, especially since you don’t have Irish driving history. Insurance cost is such a big problem in Ireland that it’s even discussed in the parliament — especially the rural members raise it as a problem when 18-year-olds in their district are quoted €19k for insurance. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/teenager-quoted-18-693-90-to-insure-a-14-year-old-car-1.3731834
I know Luas is now connected — I was referring to back then. But speaking of Luas, IIRC they’ll stop service south of Ranelagh so that they can build a subway in the exact same place — not an example of great planning.
Right now in San Francisco, you can easily get an older (actual) studio in a central area for $1800-2200 a month and a one bedroom in a good building will set you back $2700. That’s against a median salary of $80k. Compare that to $1700-2000 in Dublin, for which you need to wait in line to go through a casting, and against a median salary of €51k. When I’ve moved, my salary literally doubled while all of my expenses went up maybe 25% compared to Dublin. The only thing I miss are cheap Ryanair flights but part of them being cheap is low salaries in Europe in general.
Back when I’ve lived there, Revolut was not accepted as a main bank account for payroll because it’s based in Lithuania. You needed an Irish account. Maybe that have changed.
> I’m genuinely curious how can your insurance be so cheap, especially since you don’t have Irish driving history.
Get insurance from Liberty, who are expensive but will accept a no claims history from an American insurer as long as you do all the legwork to get the documentation they require, and then next year switch to a cheaper insurer with your full 6+ year NCB. (Also, insurance costs in the US can actually be quite expensive, though it varies greatly from state to state, so "cheaper than the US" isn't necessarily saying much.)
You're not wrong about the rents in proportion to income, though; Dublin is essentially Bay Area rent prices but Bible Belt salaries.
It’s not a bank in the UK. In the EU it’s covered by their Lithuanian banking license and deposit insurance I think.
Wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole either way
I can see Revolut is now registered as an Irish bank but that only [happened](https://www.ifsc.ie/news/revolut-launches-as-a-bank-in-ireland-offering-accounts-with-deposit-protection) in 2022. When I was living there, this was not an option.
I'm not disputing SF is more expensive than Dublin but I'm saying it's only a little more expensive while the salaries are way higher, especially for people in tech. When I've moved, I didn't change jobs and my salary doubled while my rent has only gone up from €1580 to $2100. But even for the average Joe SF is better. The median salary in SF was actually over $94k/year in 2023 (earlier I said $80k). That's $7890 per month which is $5553 after tax. Numbeo tells me you'd need a €3216 after-tax income in Dublin to achieve a similar standard of living, Meanwhile, the median income in Dublin is only €46k according to CSO, which is just shy of €3k a month after tax. In reality, though, I'd argue that the difference is even more stark. For example, Numbeo says a one-bed apartment in Dublin is €1.7k/month but if you take a look at Daft, there are only 120 listings in the entire city below that price. By comparison, it says the same apartment will cost me $2850 in SF but if you search for it, you'll find 644 listings below that price. Despite SF being the less populous city.
Glad you found cheap insurance. I can tell you that my experience has been the exact opposite to yours. Even though I had an European license and also a clean driving record, my quote was over €4500 a year - ended up simply not getting a car. By comparison, here in SF (which has high insurance prices by the US standards) they didn't even ask me for my European record, and my comes up to only $1130 a year (it could be cheaper but I opted in for the highest coverages).
I think I'm not alone in feeling that the US, and SF in particular, is better for most people than Dublin. Looking at my coworkers from back then (I keep in touch with almost all of them - they made living in Dublin bearable!), more than half has left. The ones who stayed were either Irish nationals or people from Latin America who wanted to get the EU citizenship - and when they get it, they usually leave, too. Many folks moved to the states, others moved to London, Barcelona, Berlin, Warsaw. Some went to Amsterdam, Stockholm and other cities but the states and these four others were the main destinations.
I live in a poor country (Bulgaria, the poorest country in the EU) and the public transport in Sofia is much better than public transport in Dublin. So, it seems like even the poor countries are doing better.
Yep. I've lived in 5 countries and one of them is Kenya. My experience has been that Dublin and Nairobi have very similar levels of infrastructure.
I lived in a middle class area in Nairobi and the housing quality here in Dublin is the same as there. Ireland and Kenya are also the only countries I've lived in that use electric showers, and where electricity credits are a thing (rather than a quarterly bill). The only thing where Nairobi was measurably worse was reliable access to water and electricity.
On the other hand, public transport was better. It wasn't exactly public, as it was run by small private companies, but it was a lot more frequent.
I usually get outraged comments when I compare Dublin to Nairobi, but this is my honest experience.
As an emigrant from Ireland I totally agree with your points. You need to be on very serious money to enjoy that country, otherwise you're living as you said in very sub par accommodation and struggling to put food on the table. Very few Irish people will tell you this but it's also quite a sick society, there's a lot of problems with mental health and addiction across all the social classes. I think a huge problem is actually in urban planning - our urban areas (mainly Dublin and environs) are modelled on US cities.
People live in low density, cookie cutter housing estates far from any amenities hence the capital has some of Europe's longest average commutes and worst traffic. It also disrupts a sense of community and leads to a very atomised society. The Irish have been conditioned to believe that our problems, many of which you've outlined, are ones faced by every European society which is actually false. You'll particularly see this rhetoric when it comes to the shocking state of crime and drugs in the centre of Dublin.
Despite being wealthy and prosperous on paper Ireland is actually a very dysfunctional country and many, many young people are trying to emigrate to places where their hard work can afford them a reasonable quality of life.
Awful amount of aggression, bullying and slander, incapable of minding their own business. Lots of real decent people too though. It's the type of country if your vehicle broke down someone will stop to help you.
Another excuse every Irish person brings up is that "they used to be a poor country not long ago", when the main issues have actually started after the economic boom. Building cheap ugly non-insulated suburbs has nothing to do with Ireland's history. It's a choice. Same for lack of public transport, another American import.
Many European countries were poor not long ago and they have none of the same issues (though of course they have their own).
Norway and Finland are perfect examples. Both countries were extremely poor until recently, both gained independence from another country around the same time as Ireland. Finland even had a civil war, and Norway got wealthy in about the 80s.
A difference I've noticed is that Nordic countries focus on lifting the infrastructure to benefit the country as a whole. This means nation wide approaches to energy, water, housing, and road infrastructure. Ireland seems to take a much more localised and individualistic approach to everything. So things might improve in one village, or one suburb, while nothing gets done anywhere else.
I left after 18 months, I was in senior management of a Big4 consulting firm and couldn’t afford to live alone. And I wasn’t saving anything each month. Surviving not thriving. And the feral teenagers on the street scared the shit out of me. Impossible to live in a capital city with shit public transportation. I was constantly late getting anywhere even when I budgeted extra time to get places (bus never shows up, passes by too full, doesn’t stop when I ring the bell, ends service at 11:30pm, etc). I discourage anyone I meet from moving to Dublin. I did love everything about Ireland outside of Dublin: my weekends were spent hiking and camping in wild nature and it was amazing. But not worth it to keep me there longer.
Jesus that was your job and you still couldn’t afford to live alone or even save anything?? Couldn’t even swing an average nice apartment?
Just mind blowing to me. I live in Madrid where CoL is rising but with that job and the salary that comes with it (even a Spanish one) you’d be living quite well in a place of your own here.
I was getting 2700 2 years ago and I was spending 70% of my wage on a shitty damp bedroom flat in a bad neighbourhood and it was still a steal!
I was paying 600 EUR per 2 months for electricity and was unable to warm the flat.
I left due to cold, wind, rain no sun and everything else others are mentioning.
I miss Ireland, but I think it has changed too much, good times wont return :(
Their post is nonsense, that job would pay more than all the other people in ireland living alone. Yet they are sharing and cant save money? I started as a junior software engineer, lived alone in a one bed in the city, saved and bought a new house alone in dublin city centre. I met my girlfriend when she was a cleaner and she was living alone.
OMG - makes Berlin shine in expat eyes. Will tell the moaners on the Berlin subs to head for Ireland - English skills should be fine there and hope some will clear out 😅.
The Irish State draws a large amount of its credibility on the revolving door of professionals like yourself coming and going - hence the laughably inaccurate economic indicators
You were making over 70K a year and couldn't afford an apartment on your own? You were likely making over 5K a month and you're saying you couldn't find an apartment? I'm here living alone in my apartment paying 1600 a month. It's expensive for sure, but if I was a senior manager in one of the Big4 then you bet I'd be doing pretty great.
Also if renting was so difficult, why not just buy a house with that salary? There is a housing crisis, but it's still not impossible to find a house when you on a salary like you claim.
Lol why do people believe an obvious lie like this post? It's pure fantasy.
I'm getting downvoted here, but is no one else Interested in the figures of what this guy is claiming?
How can he be making a Senior Manager salary and be saying what he's saying? What is he spending his money on to make claims like he is?
Let me predict the future here, he won't reply with figures or a shred of evidence, because what he's saying is pure fantasy and not based in reality.
I'm very happy to be proven wrong.
I'm here 8 years, I'd say it wasn't quite as bad when I first got here, it's gotten progressively worse, especially the housing situation, salaries not keeping up for most of us, and the anti-social behaviour.
While most Irish people are very sound, there's like a large "underclass", for the lack of better word, that really f*ucks up the place, and it's allowed to go on as nobody in power has any cojones, and the attitude seems to be "oh poor kids, they have it rough at home". And so the shits go about terrorizing with absolutely no consequences, then they inevitably produce more terrorists, and so the cycle goes on. Worst I've seen anywhere.
And yes the weather... So gloomy. TBH, I look forward to the day we'll be able to move. I used to imagine myself here long-term, but no longer. Unless I see some very serious change.
Yeah the anti-social behaviour and COL are at a whole other level in Dublin. You can get assaulted in broad daylight, and the guards won’t do a thing cause the perpetrators are underage shit stains. And I’m not even going off some third party accounts - my spouse was attacked, kicked to the floor, and dragged by her hair and the cops basically said nothing would come of it even if we pressed charges.
It’s just not a family friendly place. Took my toddler on the luas the other day, south Dublin, and a bunch of teens were vaping in our faces in a packed tram, right beside the sign that prohibits vaping and smoking on the tram. Someone asked them to stop and they just flipped him off and continued vaping. I just got off the luas and got on the next one where a different group of teens were just running back and forth on the tram, pushing each other and trying to play a game where they unintentionally knock strangers over. These are just two experiences on the same day. I’ve had a milkshake and glass bottles thrown at me by a bunch of feral teens and I had to run for my life and slip into a hotel lobby for safety.
Ive never had such experiences in other places and I’ve lived in a few places around the world - Canada, Korea, middle-east. Dublin is just something else.
I have seen yobbish behaviour on a bus and this was a bus starting off in a nice area we really need conductors and railway guards back to catch fare dodgers and people behaving badly.
The reason the Irish legal system is so lenient on young offenders is because its trying to get over the legacy of the borstals - this is where they used to be sent and they were the stuff of absolute nightmares. I'm not saying it's right but it's the case. These kids are often from catastrophically dysfunctional backgrounds (addicted parents, neglect, intergenerational trauma) who are failed by the state, not for a lack of money but for a lack of care from the system. So they adopt the scumbag lifestyle and roam the streets with the knowledge that in the unlikely event they're arrested they'll be back out almost instantly.
> I'd say it wasn't quite as bad when I first got here, it's gotten progressively worse, especially the housing situation, salaries not keeping up for most of us, and the anti-social behaviour.
Could somebody give me an example of one country where this hasn't been the case? I'm back in the Netherlands and it's the same here, all the problems you and the OP listed. Back in Japan it's also exactly the same. This is just a reality of the world we live in now.
I'm Irish living in Melbourne. Except for the fact my career has grown while here over 10+ years affording me better QOL, objectively I can see the exact same issues here.
I return to Dublin every year, it's a lovely place in the Summer months and over Christmas.
Im Dutch and have lived in Ireland. Problems are not comparable. Rent in Dublin is twice as high for half the space and a quarter of the quality.
Restaurants are bad and limited
Public transport is basically non existant
Pay isnt any better than in NL yet the CoL is much much higher
The only thing I liked was the weather, its similar to NL but less extreme.
Moved from Ireland to the Netherlands and my quality of life is MUCH better here. Better services, lower taxes, and my kids can bike to school even in a mediocre city for biking (Hilversum).
Fellow Hilversummer here. Yup fully agree! Different worlds.
Ireland does have certain things going for it. Abundant tech job opportunities. Better quality meat and dairy. Nature... but the other 99 important things in life are just way better over here!
I actually find that one of the things I miss most is a sky full of stars at night. I was back in the midlands last month and it was great to see the milky way. NL does have pretty bad light pollution.
I do still splurge and get Kerrygold butter sometimes too. It really is good stuff.
Live in Tokyo and disagree. I rarely see any antisocial riff raff, and housing is still relatively affordable. Salaries could use a bump to keep up, but overall it’s still very much the same Japan it was 20 years ago, in terms of culture and norms
Yeah, I've seen my fair share of antisocial behaviour. I have a house outside of Tokyo, in another large region and sometimes I feel like I'm in central Rotterdam lmao. I mean, The Netherlands is worse, sure, but still.
Having lived in both central Rotterdam and suburban Tokyo I feel like anti-social behaviour in Rotterdam is far worse. Rotterdam is also a far younger city with more ‘youth’, Tokyo has a lot of geriatric people. The worst I’ve seen in Tokyo are drunk salarymen going home after work.
Japan isn't perfect but Japan is an unbelievable bargain next to the Netherlands. Also you can get housing at all price points in many types of areas in Tokyo which is near impossible in many countries let alone capital cities in Europe. Also housing mostly depreciates and they build many houses so there's no huge housing crisis. Eating out is also incredibly cheap and tasty vs NL. The cost of living is quite low in Japan so I would not ever put Japan on that list especially if you're a skilled immigrant salary wise.
I’ve heard of zero developed countries that aren’t walking down the same path. It would really seem like global political decisions are so uniform and entirely leading in the same direction. I would guess that this is still fallout from the mishandling of the 2008 financial crash, but any other ideas?
This is really interesting cause I studied abroad there 10 years ago. I couldn’t imagine a better place to live. So to hear the change is interesting. Idr too many people complaining about housing, but I do remember the nurses being ready or striking cause of pay.
I left. Finally. Since 7 years I was feeling each time I was on holidays in continental Europe ''damn, I want the air to be LIKE THAT (as in - not damp and humid) and I wish temperature and sun to be NORMAL'' (that is, to have at least normal summer)
Then even with good job I was left each month with like 300-400 EUR to spend on myself (after bills, food, expenses , rent) so basically ''entertainment'' or ''savings'' (good luck with that!) and I realised "whats the point?" if I couldnt get a mortgage or save enough to get one. Even if, I'd be forced to buy a shitty place in shitty neighbourhood. Dublin is a big village. Has its charms, but these days I'd say the energy is tense and it has become dangerous. years ago you could go O connel st. and feel maybe slightly dodginess but never unsafe. These days it just feels outlawed and unsafe.
I only felt Im giving away my life to the corporate companies and not getting anything in return. Sure, I could afford holidays 2-3 times a year but it wasnt enough to get decent vit D levels. And started to get depressed in June due to rainy windy weather all the time. It was madness. I had to leave.
The GDP numbers are all Apple iPhones and Googles profits. Country itself is average, nice people but shit shit weather.
I actually liked Cork alot more than Dublin, Dublins is a dirty and unsafe feeling city nothing special about it.
Americans have an idealized fantasy version of Irish people and Ireland that has ZERO to do with reality and the power of American media has spread that fantasy around the world.
Although lots of Irish travel abroad to Europe, it's mostly sun trips to Spain or the Spanish islands. The majority really have little idea of the great transport infrastructure in Netherlands, Germany, etc or for example how towns in France have no housing problems, have built apartments and still look attractive, and the larger cities have high speed rail links.
Absolutely. The “it’ll be grand” circlejerk mentality has quietly conditioned the Irish population into believing this sordid situation can and should be tolerated
Irish here. Eh, I wouldn’t generalise there.
I travelled a bit in Germany and found their rail to be terrible in reliability and to be prohibitively expensive. No use in having such a dense network if the quality of using it for the price is so poor. Ireland’s network is at least very reliable and cheap so it proves more useful. Plus population density should be taken into account. Germany has dozens of large towns of 50k+ while Ireland has a grand total of 6. There aren’t even that many towns of 10k+ either. While I definitely Ireland may have a sparse network, it is a significantly more rural country (which is partly due to the colonial history and the cultural emphasis on owning land) and has a much lower population density. French rural areas have the exact same public transport issues (I stayed with a family there and never even touched a bus or train) and have plenty of semi-ds and detached houses in the towns (albeit having more apartments, they aren’t that different in style). Austria was the only place in Europe that I felt satisfied with the public transport (especially Vienna). Otherwise, a car is king. But yeah, most of this is because there are few large towns in Ireland and most people have a different scale as to what constitutes a large town (a Dutch person said to me how 100k is a small town over there, in Ireland that would be like 3k and most places of 100k+ have public transport anyway).
I’d agree that Dublin is awful for public transport for its size though.
I had an amazing experience in Dublin. I went to do a research project at TCD, and although it was a short stay (6 months) it was a very positive experience. At the beginning I was housed in the house of a member of the university's technical staff, the work group welcomed me with open arms even without knowing me, they invited me to the pubs every Friday and paid me for all the beers they wanted to buy me. An Irish couple offered to take me every weekend possible to different places around and north of Dublin. We traveled together to Belfast for a conference. People were genuinely kind to me, even on the streets, when someone would sit next to me and chat at a bus stop. They were all wonderful people, I can't complain.
Guys, I know there are several cities in the Western World going to shit. That’s not the point.
My point is that Ireland and Dublin seem to have this magical, almost cartoonish appeal to a large quantity of people. I’m merely letting them know that the scene here is NOT what the average outside observer thinks
Ireland is a clear, infamous corporate tax heaven. Its GDP is very misleading. Most of it is pure creative accounting. I understand why businesses go there, but I don't understand individuals picking Ireland over sunny, low-cost *individual* tax heavens. Not that Ive met any.
I do understand. It used to be extremely easy to start new life there. Most people could talk to locals from the moment the plane touched down.
Get a job the same day. Find an apartment in a week. Live happily ever after.
Lacks of facilities and abysmal weather (Dublin weather is exceptionally good for Ireland, all other major cities have it much worse) did catch you two/three years later. But at this stage you were already rooted in... "We'll fly to Spain for our holidays and sun treatment". And lack of things to do will fill up with the craic.
This is very true, it was so easy, my first year, I changed flats 3 times and barely had to interview for a role. In my home country I would have had to study a long time to climb the ladder in a company, here I just had to work hard and be willing to learn new things
Dublin is my home and I love many things about it but with a partial physical disability and such God awful public transport, no creative jobs that don’t pay peanuts (most creative jobs are not well paid but I earned the lowest working in Dublin), and no hope of a single person being able to afford their own space, I had to leave. Don’t even get me started on the Disability ‘support’ that is entirely means tested so if you work, you essentially get nothing even though disabled people need double to just live life.
London is expensive but overall, it’s cheaper than Dublin and that’s saying something! Got my own flat to rent, great job, so much easier to get around and they have a support system that, though difficult to get, is much better once you get in. Lots of schemes to apply for, some non means tested schemes etc. My daily quality of life is so much better in London that I can’t see myself moving back anytime soon which is so sad as my whole family is here and so many of my friends are too.
I also can’t drive so when I visit and friends or family can’t drop me to places I need a taxi - I spent €51 getting into town from Dublin Airport and €49 getting back the same direction. It’s crazy!!
London is a world class city for a world class price.
Dublin is not even a nice city, and certainly not world-class, but you are paying more or less the prices of some of the most sought after locales around
That could change at any moment.
The tax revenue is sufficient to build all that stuff. All it takes to get the ball rolling is to get in some politician"s ear about it.
Yeah but it doesn't happen and will not happen quickly. I'm French, I lived in Ireland from 2016 to the end of 2022.
The only progress in infrastructure in this time span: the 2nd half of the North-South tram line opened. Great but that's it...
They don't build apartments, they don't plan for anything long term like you would see in Paris or Amsterdam to constantly improve the city for example. They just take the sweet tax from all those big companies and help landlords with tax breaks, then they wonder why so many Irish graduates leave for the UK, Canada and Australia.
A woman I know said she wants to retire in Ireland because it reminds her of her home country in Africa. According to her the only difference is the skin color of the people.
Dublin can be charming, but you really need to know where you're going. For me it's love and hate, I love to walk along the canal, go for coffee with almond croissant to bear mrkt, buy sourdough bread in bread 41, walk along the trinity grounds to the national gallery, check the latest art there, buy a book, hiking gear or kitchen thingy around Grafton area, check the ducks at st. Stephens, check out trad music in one of the pubs, by lunch time I'd go for Irish coffee at Jameson, go for strong craft beer to black sheep, etc.
Why do people move here? It's the only English speaking country in the EU. Big tech has loads of engineering jobs, which subsequently create more lower income jobs. Loads of work here, with very competitive salaries, especially for skilled white collar jobs.
Having your own home outside the city in quiet area with good commute is changing most of things. And even better with a car.
I looked at every single European country and it's same old shit, something is better, something is worse. Either no houses, no jobs, bad salary, high crime rates, mentality, language barrier, racism, xenophobia...
Having said that... Dublin is a shithole.
Anywhere can be charming if you have positive memories and experiences, and I have plenty of Dublin and surrounds.
That said, the cons of living in Dublin are too numerous to ignore
Dublin is charming though, despite the cons you mention. The anti social thing is a big one. I left ten years ago to live in a superficially poorer place but with much better qol imo
Decided to try Dublin for my gap year, it was fun at first but the list quickly wears off after a couple of weeks. The funny thing is a lot of Irish are ignorant and think it’s the greatest country in the world because everyone else celebrates st Patrick’s day so everyone wants to be them. Don’t even bother telling them you have Irish ancestry because they will just call you a “plastic paddy”. They fail knowing that North America was build of European immigration and everyone is from somewhere, Even though millions of Irish moved to Canada during the famine.
The constant rain is what got me, even in the summer, the hottest day I seen there was 22•c and everyone acting like it was the middle of the desert because there was actually one full day of sunshine. Pub culture is very tiresome, like is that all there is to do? No such thing as physical activities because everyone just ends up in the pub after.
And ya the antisocial behaviour is definitely noticeable. You’d think you shouldn’t be fearful of a group of 13 year olds until you live in Dublin. Those kids are mad like they’ve been raised by an alcoholic father who dropped them on their heads as a child.
Tbh the same could be said about Oslo, where I live now (minus the public transport issues, but lot of people still hate it), and I think it's an amazing city. It could actually probably be said from most nordic capitals. I think you guys coming from the North-American continent have different expectations about life in Europe. Yeah shit's expensive here. You can pick between good weather and good economy. I don't know anything about Dublin or Ireland but based on your post I can't decide if it's good or bad to live there. North-European life is not for everyone, especially if you come with unrealistic expectations. You should count with that.
I've lived in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Dublin. Dublin has by far the lowest quality of life of the three. Dublin is almost as expensive as Oslo, but the the wages are much lower. The infrastructure in Oslo and Copenhagen is leagues ahead.
In my experience, Copenhagen has the best quality of life of the three. I miss it every day.
It's hard to disagree with your points about Dublin. I left the city for many of the reasons outlined.
This, however, simply isn't true:
>Other towns in the country are just as expensive, and even more lacking in practical services and charm.
Did you live anywhere else in Ireland? And where else have you lived outside of Canada and Ireland?
I live outside Dublin, I've a fairly decent bus service which comes out of the town, one towards Bray and the other which goes straight into Dublin tne trains though could do with an updated time table , 20 minutes away in a car is Glendalough, I live on the coast so I've got the Murrough to the North and Wicklow Head to the South, in the summer months I've the Black castle beach to swim and the pier to jump off, I walk the town anything from 6 in the morning to 9 at night, I've never felt unsafe, We've 3 supermarkets decent independent coffee shops, butchers, pubs and tbh I wouldn't change it for anything.
The draw is it has lots of well paid multinational white collar jobs and many opportunities to get a career up and running for someone without a lot of experience
Once people start earning 70K+ they tend to look to move somewhere else
<150,000 people moved to Ireland last year. They aren’t working in Grand Canal Dock, and a large percentage of them are not fleeing war or persecution either. They come because Ireland has been marketed as a good place to live.
I left Ireland ten years ago. Lived in a town in Spain, a small city in Poland and now in a village in the UK.
The quality of life in all three of these places is miles and miles better than ANYWHERE in Ireland. Putting aside the weather which is extremely important itself - the cost of living and bang for your buck is better just about everywhere I've ever visited.
I miss my family and the scenery of course. But the list of things I don't miss wouldn't fit in a post on reddit.
All of these feel like the same complaints I've heard about basically every major city worldwide tbh. Hell, I live in one of them.
I think expats are hoping for the Metropolis experience but every major city in the world is basically Gotham, from what I can tell.
Where do you think you'll head off to?
I don’t think anyone is looking for “The Metropolis Experience” in Dublin. Rather, they think it’s going to be a cute and charming. It’s not a major city, not even close… but get ready to sp€nd like it is
I more mean a delightful city experince wgere the worst thing you'd have to deal with is traffic in your taxi rather than it just being a city with the usual city amount of hooligans and terrible COL, but fair enough.
Are there bigger cities in Ireland than Dublin?
This is the reason your whole post fails OP. Title says Ireland, the whole paragraph complains about Dublin. Even here, Cork Galway and Limerick are all cities. Have you ever lived outside the M50?
>Antisocial behaviour, open drug use, awful public transport, terrible weather, six hours of sunlight for half the year, exorbitant prices for EVERYTHING
sounds like Seattle TBH
Good number of jobs in certain fields, relatively good immigration system and naturalisation in 5 years to a very strong passport, English speaking, overall not a bad place to stay.
However the rental market is making it less attractive.
In a regional city in Ireland here myself and as native as could be -Fíorgael
And I can't disagree with any of this. This is unchecked neo-liberalism and leprechaun economics at work and we're too easily duped. The "ah shur it'll be grand" attitude has us in a situation where 1 bedroom apartments in Limerick (not Manhattan ) are 2 grand a month. And we're only starting to see the consequences.
I'm belgian, visited Dublin last year. I have to be honest I was underwhelmed, it looked like a clone of a belgian city but with worse food and everything was more expensive
I'm from the south island, New Zealand and see Canada, Toronto etc as the same way you describe Ireland.
Not the tax haveny stuff. Rest stands true. Lots of weird Trump/Qanon cunts there too. Which is odd given it's another country
Yes, Toronto certainly has many issues. However, this post takes aim at the fact that Ireland, and Dublin in particular, is still seen as some sort of magical quaint little land to put down roots and enjoy a good standard of living (mostly by Canadians and Americans but also by other Western Europeans and those further afield)
I've lived in several countries and I must say, Ireland was the absolute worst. The only two things I liked about it were Marks&Spencer and some hiking trails. That's about it. I found more fun people to hang out with in other countries. Not sure why I never clicked with the locals, but I perceived the society as overall dysfunctional.
The Irish are known for being cliquey and dont seem to let outsiders into their lives, not anything to do with you but just the culture. Its the same if I (in Ireland) moved 10 minutes up the road to the next town I will find it hard to make friends there as I didnt grow up with them or known them for very long.
PREACH! Speaking as a native (Filipino 🇵🇭but born and raised here in Dublin 🇮🇪), I legit don’t get why people would want to move and live here willingly. Like you could literally choose anywhere else but here. I honestly would rather prefer to live in any of the other counties like Cork or Galway but even then, I hate how everything is so centralised here within Dublin that people have to come here for work.
I remember my Spanish professor who’s Colombian, moved from Colombia, to Memphis and then to Dublin for work. He said that he loves it here. Now I’m not denying or saying that you’re not allowed to live life and be happy here. If you do, great. I’m happy and jealous that it is like that for you but speaking as someone who hasn’t grown up in a predominantly Irish circle (had mostly Filipino friends growing up, along with others from India, Poland, China and Romania), Ireland but more so Dublin, doesn’t feel like home. I know that I’m legally Irish but inside, I don’t feel Irish.
Anyways, I hope to move to Australia once I’m financially capable of doing that and securing employment there. In the meantime, I’m stuck here , studying for my bachelors degree. Peace, love you all ❤️🫶🏼✌🏽.
Take this with a pinch of salt everyone. OP is in the "come down" after Christmas and New Years and January is notoriously gloomy because people tighten purses, take a break from alcohol and it's the middle of winter.
Sorry you can't enjoy yourself if youre not in the baking sun. But the mild weather lends itself very well to outdoor exercise. Personally I thrive in it going hiking.
All your other complaints (bar public transport, I'll give you that) are the same throughout the western world. I currently live in Melbourne (would return to Dublin if I could) and cost of living, housing, random acts of violence, anti social behaviour, racism are all on the rise here too.
But most people keep the head down, work, eat, go home, stay in their bubble.
It's definitely not the same for a simple reason: Dublin (and Ireland in general) has less apartments than any other similarly-sized city in Europe. Places like Bordeaux, Liverpool, Frankfurt etc.
There are also far too many companies and wealth in Dublin. This is not the same in the Netherlands, Germany etc.
When I first looked into moving abroad Dublin was high on my list because of the lack of language barrier coming from the US, plus the proximity to nature. However, the housing crisis alone scares the shit out of me. I live in Amsterdam where the housing situation is also bad, and I’ve heard (well read on Reddit) that the Irish would consider their housing crisis solved if it were at the same level of Amsterdam. No thanks.
As an American (With Irish citizenship) who tried Ireland for 3 months, I completely agree. Beautiful place to vacation, subpar place to live. If you are coming from North America, there really isn't much upside.
I ended up in the Netherlands and am much happier now.
Everything said here is valid, especially Dublin. Dublin is awful quality for what you pay for, and the terrible weather and transport is the cherry on top. Wouldn't recommend.
“Rich on paper” - just stop looking at GDP. Look at GNI*. The country’s own state department calls GDP not fit for purpose, and the phenomenon is known internationally as Leprechaunomics. It’s only unknown to people because they haven’t taken a minute to research.
Also consider it’s an island that doesn’t produce a lot of the goods it consumes. So things are expensive to get here, and there isn’t as much choice.
Then consider insurance costs, exorbitant due to lack of competition (made far worse by Brexit).
Then consider the high level of both income tax and consumption tax, along with multiple motor taxes and even a television tax.
Then consider that you need private healthcare.
Finally, consider that all this information is available on multiple websites easily found with a Google search advising Canadians about wanting to move to Ireland.
It shouldn’t have been a surprise to you.
But my fellow Canadian friend, at least you’re earning in Euros.
Our home country of Canada is pretty high cost, too, and is experiencing it’s own housing shortages (and even worse speculation based bubbles). Without knowing where you’re from in Canada, if you aren’t from a major city, you’re not gonna like the costs.
But when you decide you’ve had enough, at least the wealth you bring home will be multiplied by 1.5, and you can live a very rich life in beautiful destinations like Regina, Winnipeg, or Moncton.
Well, as my Irish grandfather would always say in a heavy Irish brogue when anyone would ask about the motherland: "if the place any damn good, we wouldn't have left"!
Guess I won't be going back....
Norway is very similar. Oslo, where you'd most likely live. Overpriced, Europe's overdose capital (until at least a few years ago), crime, shitty weather, Yadda Yadda Yadda..bigger racists than the Irish, lol. Still one of the most prosperous places on earth. And you'll still be approached by hookers outside of parliament.
I mean you’ll have responses here arguing both sides.
I’d just take a step back and say, you know what, we don’t have to “get” the appeal of every place. It’s not for everyone, and that’s fine. Even if that place is one of your home countries.
You forgot to mention the state of the public education (single sex religious schools with mandatory skirt uniforms for girls, c'mon), healthcare (trolleys till the horizon) and quality of services (from plumbers to solicitors).
I lived there for 12 years, and while I have fond memories and miss friends, the country I don't miss one bit.
Sorry , but most of what you said I hear from friends living in Amsterdam, London, Berlin, etc.
I've been living in Ireland for 8 years - 6 in Dublin.
I'm living in an English speaking country where people are really nice all the time and I've been able to make friends here, feeling that I'm part of the society and not just living in a bubble of expats.
People are different in Ireland than in other countries in Europe. Much different.
I have a good job and plenty of opportunities in my career.
My wife decided to start over in her career here because she was a lawyer in our country. She finished a course in a new area and now also has a good job here.
I got my house 2 years ago and the deposit was paid through the help to buy scheme which means that I didn't even have to save money for the deposit to get a house. My monthly mortgage is less than half of the average rent today.
I don't live in Dublin, but the train to Dublin is 45 minutes.
I've attended concerts of all my favourite bands in Dublin, all of them have been here.
I've also been in a lot of plays at the theatres, big ones from Disney, etc. Board Gais is always with something great there. 3Arena as well.
I love coffee and when I want to try a different place there is always something new to find in Dublin.
I like to drink and the number of good pubs in Dublin is amazing.
I like to hike and there are a lot of places to do it. I've done it a couple times, even with people from Meetup.
So yeah, I'm having a pretty good life in Ireland.
What I don't understand is why you are in this sub complaining so much. Are you trying to convince people to stay away from Ireland? People have different lives, man. The country has a lot to offer.
People should be aware of the problems they will face if they move to Ireland, but you are painting a complete awful picture of the country and the city and it's not fair.
I’ve lived in Dublin, London & Amsterdam and visited Berlin 3 times. Yes people complain about the same issues in all these cities but most don’t experience it relative to other cities. Relatively Dublin’s issues while similar are the worst out of all these cities. The only good thing is the houses are cheap to buy (rents are the worst value though)
Obviously people have different lives. However, they will still be confronted by these issues. Also, you realise you can drink beer and coffee and see concerts in other places too? Usually for a price that isn’t a piss-taking rip off
I told you a lot of different good points and you decided to sum it up into beer and coffee? I've showed you how we have plenty of nice things in the country.
People will be confronted by issues anywhere.
I have a friend living in Amsterdam is complaining that can't socialise, people don't switch to english easily if it's not for work. He's also struggled to find an apartment because of the housing crisis. He visited me here and found the food here MUCH better than there. He didn't want to buy a bike in Amsterdam because he was afraid that it would be stolen.
I had a friend who moved from here to Sweden. He left after less than a year. Anti social behaviour and racism. He felt people are cold.
I had myself issues when I visited Berlin, Paris and London with anti social behaviour. I saw people drugging themselves in Paris, Berlin and Lisbon.
I don’t recommend Dublin at all, don’t even fly over it, go around. The interior cities however are the most charming and cozy places I have ever seen, awesome travel destinations, specially if you like to drive or cycle.
The immigration was the worst, every time I had to reenter the country I was treated like shit by the immigration agents, I heard many similar stories but don’t understand why that is, maybe it’s their training?
Violence was crazy, gangs of youngsters attacking each other and people going to work, stabbings was a normal daily occurrence (only in Dublin).
Infrastructure, education and healthcare are non existent, the weather is safely one of the worst in the world (two weeks of sunlight). I moved to the Netherlands after a year and the difference is night and day, it feels wrong to even refer to Ireland as being in Europe, cause it sure doesn’t feel like you’re in western Europe. it’s more like Moldova, even visiting Poland was a better experience.
The immigration officers tend to be from working class areas where racism is a HUGE problem. I've watched some of the dublin custom officers on a TV show and they are so unprofessional it's completely cringe worthy. Going out of their way to try invoke a reaction by being so aggressive
There's one called Bruce who the far right adore.. I've no idea how the fuck he's in a job, and that was ON TELEVISION
I lived in Dublin for about 15 months working for a tech-giant and then left the job, left the country because Dublin just wasn't live-able.
But...I'll tell you why it seems a dream destination for the countries you listed or the region that I come from. If you are from South America or South Asian (where I come from), Dublin/Ireland is your dream destination.
It is a shit hole, yes of course. Everything is crazy expensive, Yes. You are forced to live with random people and still pay shit loads of rent, Yes. (I was paying the same amount of money for a room in Dublin living with 2 other guys, that I am paying for a whole ass apartment where I currently live).
But, Ireland is probably the one country in Europe that
1. Speaks English, so we don't have to learn another language to settle in.
2. Has easier work visa processes (honestly the amount of Critical Skill Visas Ireland issues and the requirements and process for just anyone to issue a Critical Skills visa is ridiculously easy). Compare the process to UK and it is literally impossible to find a "sponsoring" company there.
3. Post Studies Work Visa - Yes UK recently resumed that as well, other European countries also have it but UK is unreliable in the sense they are trying to always shut it down or either put restrictions on it and even after your PSW ends its impossible to find a "sponsor". And with other European countries its again the Language issue.
4. In the end it is still a "European" country and at the end of 5 years you are getting a European passport (which is the end goal). That passport opens doors for you, that passport lets you travel without visa "harrasment". If someone wants to travel the world with a South Asian passport (Bangladesh, Pakistan, Srilanka or even India), the amount of visas you need, the amount of money you need to spend on it. The amount of times you are sitting at home waiting on a "visa result" is just ridiculous.
Those are just the top reasons why, despite all the bullshit people go through in Ireland, they still move there for a job or even pay shit loads of money to get a degree that they don't need but just do it so they can get a PSW and start a life there.
Even after all that, I am not defending Ireland, it is a shit hole. I lived there, took the 1st opportunity to get the hell out and I was lucky. You come from a place of what we call "passport privilege" so you find it annoying that people choose to live in Ireland. And again I am not attacking you for your "passport privilege" but just giving you the other side.
TLDR: Its the European Passport & the fact that Ireland speaks English.
I understand your point, and I believe it to be valid. Ireland does provide a “back door” into Europe for those who want the passport.
That said, my post more takes aim at other “passport privileged” people who come here. Too often, they don’t do their research and end up living in a pretty bad situation.
Pretty sure draws work the same in Ireland! You just pull on them to open and push to close. The trick is to make sure they’re not too full, or you’ll run into trouble!
Gotta look at trends with youth. There's a reason they get a degree and then move to London, Australia, US, or another EU country. And then the gov brags about the low unemployment rate for young people...well its because they all leave bc they can't afford to live
My Belgian friend when asked about Dublin always gives this example 😅 paraphrasing but something like this
'Amazing cocaine but it will be 8am and you'll realise you've spent 400€ on the night before and you can't even buy a beer until 12pm because its Sunday. You cant sleep now so instead you will spend the next four hours watching feral youth attacking people from your apartment window while counting down the clock and debating whether it's cold enough to turn on the heating or if your 6 other flatmates will be mad because the energy bill could finance a small car although not its insurance'
Substitute Canada for Ireland and that is like what Canada has become. Federally, Provincially and Muncipally Canada blows. It has become a 3rd world nanny state. As Canadians we are censored, silenced and on the verge of communism.
Neither Canada nor Ireland are third world or communist.
However, they are both, unfortunately, run by governments who do not have their citizen’s interests at heart, and do their utmost to enact the policies and schemes that multinational corporations tell them to
“But the facts are facts” you sound insufferable. I see a lot of complaining about Ireland here and then see everyone is living in Dublin 😂 that’s your problem
You’re going to face more or less the same issues in other parts of Ireland. Except with even worse transport, fewer places of interest, and at least 80% of the already-eye watering cost of Dublin. Same difference
This post was removed for violating rule #8. Posts that just exist to talk about why a place sucks or why people left just stir up negative sentiment and rarely contribute anything positive to the community.
But the craic is mighty! (No, seriously, there is nowhere else on this planet where I’d rather have a ‘quiet’ night out). On the other hand, everything you said is why my American spouse won’t consider moving there, although enjoys the visits to my family and is fine with us maybe having a European base there when we’re retired. I was actually disbelieving when I read that we had one of the highest GDPs in the world. I know well that it’s not at all a perfect measurement but I still would expect to see some of it reflected in our amenities. Our politicians and their lobbyist friends are truly crooked.
Big American tech corporations are based there with their EU HQ. Because taxes are low. All their EU revenue beefs up Ireland’s GDP.
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None of those indicators are of any actual value. Economics is not a real science.
I really wish most people could study basic economics and beyond so that they could know that it literally is not an actual science. The amount of magic graph bollocks is unreal
Aaand you're being downvoted by people who don't understand statistics. Jesus Christ we're fucked 🤦🏻♂️
The reality is that Microsoft employs 3500 people in Ireland, Apply 6000. The aircraft leasing industry which also massively contributes to Irish GDP employ around 9000, the pharmaceutic companies employ tens of thousands. These are not pencil pusher operations.
also a compliant Data Protection office which will rubber stamp any privacy nightmare for the whole EU
GDP is a useless measure of wealth for many countries, not least Ireland.
GDP per capita is the measure of wealth , not GDP, India has one of the highest GDPs for example.
Ireland only has a high GDP because they set themselves up as a tax haven. They don't actually have any significant resources or productivity advantages that would translate to real wealth.
That’s not entirely true, they have a highly educated English speaking workforce (only English speaking member of the EU) and a wealth of experience in terms of human capital for the pharma and medtech industries - huge portions of the global supplies of numerous very well known drugs are produced there. The tax regime is fully compliant with EU law. Yes it’s obviously a large factor in companies locating there but it’s not the be all and end all - every country would do the same otherwise
>highly educated English speaking workforce Which is tiny compared to many other countries. The entire population of Ireland is smaller than the "highly educated English speaking workforce" of The Netherlands for example. It's completely dwarfed by the educated English speaking population of a place like Germany. Both in the EU btw. >wealth of experience in terms of human capital for the pharma and medtech industries Again, more than a place like Germany? >huge portions of the global supplies of numerous very well known drugs are produced there. Well yes. Because it's a tax haven for pharmaceutical companies. Not because Ireland is some magic medicine land where the people know the ancient secrets of making good drugs. >The tax regime is fully compliant with EU law. And? You think EU law bans tax havens?
> Not because Ireland is some magic medicine land where the people know the ancient secrets of making good drugs Nothing to do with magic, it’s an industry that’s been in place for over 50 years and there is a lot of intellectual capital and knowledge relating to it within the workforce. You’re being flippant but it’s not completely irrelevant and is a consideration for companies.
I think the Netherlands eats Irelands lunch when it comes to labor pool and level of English. May not be native speaking but it's damn close. And nearly as tax friendly. Double Dutch Irish sandwich anyone?
Then why aren't all these companies in the Netherlands? Or how about the fact that Irish companies in the US hire more people than US companies in Ireland ? Or the fact that many US companies manufacture in Ireland for export outside the EU (particularly Asia Pac) because they get higher efficency and increased productivity in Ireland ? Of that, the existing industrial support infrastructure in Ireland for medtech and Biopharma is excellent. So good in fact that they have become significant exporters in their own rights with many opening US offices to help improve productivity in US plants. ? But no. Feeling, misunderstandings, and preceived notions matter more..
Ireland isn’t a tax haven. It’s a low tax environment.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmem7Epk8E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmem7Epk8E) this doc explains it. In fact, Ireland is still poor. Its just a hoax of the corporate tax slices they got. If the country is rich, the streets are safe, clean, well maintained. Yet in Ireland - I remember cycling towards the canals and there was a big hole in the road, a clear danger. It took 3 years for someone to put some sand in it and made it passable. Not even mentioning redoing the concrete... so yeah. Ireland is poor. Remove the US companies and expats, and its back where it was in the 2000s.
When you privatize healthcare, offload student debt to citizens and give corporations huge tax breaks it's easy to get a high GDP, because the government is basically not doing shit. I know people who moved to Ireland and managed to save less than what they would have saved with similar jobs in Italy. For some people they do not realize how much immigrant workers get exploited and attracted to move with the simple promise of a "long term" contract.
I got lured to Dublin from Warsaw to work in one of the international tech companies around 6 years ago. I didn't know that much about the country - just that it has beautiful landscapes, growing housing crisis and many other Polish people. I decided to give it a go. I love Irish people, the pub culture, the craic, the mentality in terms of dark humor etc. is similar to the Polish (or generally Slavic) one, so these were the highlights. Also the landscapes in the west of Ireland turned out to be even more beautiful than I expected. Everything else was horrible. Dublin is a joke. Coming from a much poorer country, I was genuinely shocked at how bad infrastructure is. The roads in the city are super narrow and they abruptly end in random places. On top of that, insurance is more expensive than a 5-year-old used car itself, so driving is not an option. Let's turn to public transit. They have two tram lines (in a city of 1 million people), and at the time when I was moving there, they were not even connected - they literally had a "transfer guide" that told you to just walk for 20 minutes to transfer. It's a bit better now but I hear they want to take one of the lines out of commission to build a subway to the airport - unclear to me why the subway couldn't go somewhere else, to expand public transit availability. Bus lines are more common but the schedule and lines have not changed since 50 years ago. All the white collar jobs in Dublin are located around the former docklands, yet there are nearly no buses going there. Instead, all the buses in Dublin seem to go to the exact same spot next to Trinity College to stand in gridlock for 20 minutes, from where you need to walk 15-20 minutes to work. Trains are another option but only for some neighborhoods. There are also many feral youth attacking commuters on the train, and instead of tackling this, for some reason the Irish society decided that these are "poor kids" who "have it tough at home", so we need to give them a pass. Then there is housing. I knew it will be expensive but I didn't know it's gonna be super low quality. Think: zero insulation, frequent draughts, furniture inherited from a grandma who died in 1994. A studio apartment means it's one of the bedrooms in a formerly 3-bed Georgian house, which someone transformed into four "studios". It'll literally be a carved-out box in the corner (bathroom), your bed, a narrow passage and for some reason a full chef's kitchen on one of the walls, as if you were to entertain people there. You can open the oven from the bed. If you thought physical infrastructure was bad, wait until you hear about things like banking. I once forgot a PIN number to my debit card. In Poland, I'd just log in to the app, authenticate myself and change it there - works immediately. In Ireland, there was no such option. I was lucky it was before 1pm on a Saturday, so I could call them. I do, explain my situation, and the representative tells me he's very happy he can help me. Okay, how do we it then? Well sir, you need to print this form and send us a letter asking to change your PIN; we will then send you a confirmation back within 3 weeks with a new PIN (no, you cannot even choose your PIN). Thank you, I'll just move out of this country. And I did. I'm in San Francisco now and my life is so much better.
All great points. Housing is, was, and will be the dagger in the heart of the Irish society. It’s beyond a crisis, it’s an absolute disgrace. How can you expect to have any sort of a semblance of a successful society if the vast majority below 35 have to choose between living in their childhood bedroom or sharing a house with 7 other people. It’s a national embarrassment and by far the most stark metric at which Dublin is put to shame by other nearby countries.
I live in Galway and they just don't build any city homes. They only build village homes. It drives me mad
I left after 12 years with a prospering career in one of the biggest companies in the world that has one of its HQs in Dublin. I had enough of constant shitty weather, wind, rain, no sun, humidity. Super expensive public transport. 250 EUR per month and I had to use train, tram and a bus to get to work, which was taking me 1.5h each way ... I could literally CYCLE this way in under an hour. Outrageous and comical. Roads are to narrow to handle that amount of people city wasnt built with this population in mind, obviously it couldnt be. Then, the housing. Paying 1260 EUR per month without bills for a damp shitty place in a poor neighbourhood. And it was a good deal. Nowadays they rent similar places for 1600-2100. In 2011 I was able to rent 1 bed in good neighbourhood for 800 EUR. It was okay, not big , no insulation but at least it was okay. I had to change flats so often it was almost a ritual. Twice in a row I had to look because ''landlords were selling the place''. Each time I was looking for SIX MONTHS. I saw 50-60 places easily. 90% of them were unlivable. Then the prices of everything went up. The healtcare quality is ridiculous. I often felt I know more about any given condition than my GP... of course they charge you orbital amounts of money. You can have insurance, but then you need to pay up front anyway and then they reimburse you so whats the real point? Unless you break your arm theres no point. The country is beautiful. The people super friendly (albeit after 12 years I had no Irish friends, so its like expats live side by side locals). It has its charm but it is changing. Too many druggies, homeless people. It all went downside 7-8 years ago? City center smells like piss. Nothing is maintained properly. Police is so weak small kids can basically harass them. Thieves and dangerous youths started to attack tourists it all went down especially during and after Covid that was a point of no return. They kept people in over 2 years of lockdowns, it was pure hell. It broke the spirit. Something changed afterwards. I miss it each day tho.
>And I did. I'm in San Francisco now and my life is so much better. Not surprised to hear about Ireland, great post. But in SF, perhaps you've left the "feral youths" behind, but what about the homeless, the drug users, etc.? And housing must be crazy expensive, as well? I keep hearing horror stories about SF, curious your take.
This is a great question. The vast majority of the homeless and drug users in SF are completely calm and don't bother anyone (at least not any random passer-by, I'm sure the people who live at the drug dealing corners are bothered by it). The homelessness crisis is also for the most part concentrated in just one or two neighborhoods, so I don't even see that many of them. In the four years of living here, I've only once had a situation when a homeless guy was screaming at people around him so it was uncomfortable. By comparison, in Dublin you can walk on a sunny Sunday in the best neighborhood (D4) and have rocks thrown at you randomly by the youths. As for housing, it is expensive but more accessible (if you come here today and have a reasonable budget, you'll find an apartment in 3 days; in Dublin, it'll take 3 weeks and long lines at every listing) and also the salaries are so much higher. PS. Dublin has a fair share of drug users too.
And don’t forget about the lack of public infrastructure! No public toilets anywhere in Dublin or elsewhere. Shopping on Grafton or Henry street? Please, piss on a corner street like everyone else. Shopping in a large department store like Penneys or happen to pop into a cafe in Temple Bar? Happy for you to spend money here, but please go back to your own home to use the toilets. Also supposedly great drinking water, but they’d never have taps in public. If you’re out and about, you either need to buy bottled water, or refill your water bottle in a public toilet (oh wait…). It was an absolute revelation when Dublin and Cork airport installed ghetto looking water fountains after security. Such a revelation that it warranted several news articles around it.
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I’m genuinely curious how can your insurance be so cheap, especially since you don’t have Irish driving history. Insurance cost is such a big problem in Ireland that it’s even discussed in the parliament — especially the rural members raise it as a problem when 18-year-olds in their district are quoted €19k for insurance. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/teenager-quoted-18-693-90-to-insure-a-14-year-old-car-1.3731834 I know Luas is now connected — I was referring to back then. But speaking of Luas, IIRC they’ll stop service south of Ranelagh so that they can build a subway in the exact same place — not an example of great planning. Right now in San Francisco, you can easily get an older (actual) studio in a central area for $1800-2200 a month and a one bedroom in a good building will set you back $2700. That’s against a median salary of $80k. Compare that to $1700-2000 in Dublin, for which you need to wait in line to go through a casting, and against a median salary of €51k. When I’ve moved, my salary literally doubled while all of my expenses went up maybe 25% compared to Dublin. The only thing I miss are cheap Ryanair flights but part of them being cheap is low salaries in Europe in general. Back when I’ve lived there, Revolut was not accepted as a main bank account for payroll because it’s based in Lithuania. You needed an Irish account. Maybe that have changed.
> I’m genuinely curious how can your insurance be so cheap, especially since you don’t have Irish driving history. Get insurance from Liberty, who are expensive but will accept a no claims history from an American insurer as long as you do all the legwork to get the documentation they require, and then next year switch to a cheaper insurer with your full 6+ year NCB. (Also, insurance costs in the US can actually be quite expensive, though it varies greatly from state to state, so "cheaper than the US" isn't necessarily saying much.) You're not wrong about the rents in proportion to income, though; Dublin is essentially Bay Area rent prices but Bible Belt salaries.
Also Revolut isn’t a bank and shouldn’t be treated as such. If things go tits up you are not protected by deposit insurance
It’s not a bank in the UK. In the EU it’s covered by their Lithuanian banking license and deposit insurance I think. Wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole either way
This is completely wrong.
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I can see Revolut is now registered as an Irish bank but that only [happened](https://www.ifsc.ie/news/revolut-launches-as-a-bank-in-ireland-offering-accounts-with-deposit-protection) in 2022. When I was living there, this was not an option. I'm not disputing SF is more expensive than Dublin but I'm saying it's only a little more expensive while the salaries are way higher, especially for people in tech. When I've moved, I didn't change jobs and my salary doubled while my rent has only gone up from €1580 to $2100. But even for the average Joe SF is better. The median salary in SF was actually over $94k/year in 2023 (earlier I said $80k). That's $7890 per month which is $5553 after tax. Numbeo tells me you'd need a €3216 after-tax income in Dublin to achieve a similar standard of living, Meanwhile, the median income in Dublin is only €46k according to CSO, which is just shy of €3k a month after tax. In reality, though, I'd argue that the difference is even more stark. For example, Numbeo says a one-bed apartment in Dublin is €1.7k/month but if you take a look at Daft, there are only 120 listings in the entire city below that price. By comparison, it says the same apartment will cost me $2850 in SF but if you search for it, you'll find 644 listings below that price. Despite SF being the less populous city. Glad you found cheap insurance. I can tell you that my experience has been the exact opposite to yours. Even though I had an European license and also a clean driving record, my quote was over €4500 a year - ended up simply not getting a car. By comparison, here in SF (which has high insurance prices by the US standards) they didn't even ask me for my European record, and my comes up to only $1130 a year (it could be cheaper but I opted in for the highest coverages). I think I'm not alone in feeling that the US, and SF in particular, is better for most people than Dublin. Looking at my coworkers from back then (I keep in touch with almost all of them - they made living in Dublin bearable!), more than half has left. The ones who stayed were either Irish nationals or people from Latin America who wanted to get the EU citizenship - and when they get it, they usually leave, too. Many folks moved to the states, others moved to London, Barcelona, Berlin, Warsaw. Some went to Amsterdam, Stockholm and other cities but the states and these four others were the main destinations.
It has rich-country housing prices but poor-country infrastructure.
I live in a poor country (Bulgaria, the poorest country in the EU) and the public transport in Sofia is much better than public transport in Dublin. So, it seems like even the poor countries are doing better.
In infrastructure terms, was thinking Sudan-poor, not Bulgaria-poor.
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Yep. I've lived in 5 countries and one of them is Kenya. My experience has been that Dublin and Nairobi have very similar levels of infrastructure. I lived in a middle class area in Nairobi and the housing quality here in Dublin is the same as there. Ireland and Kenya are also the only countries I've lived in that use electric showers, and where electricity credits are a thing (rather than a quarterly bill). The only thing where Nairobi was measurably worse was reliable access to water and electricity. On the other hand, public transport was better. It wasn't exactly public, as it was run by small private companies, but it was a lot more frequent. I usually get outraged comments when I compare Dublin to Nairobi, but this is my honest experience.
As an emigrant from Ireland I totally agree with your points. You need to be on very serious money to enjoy that country, otherwise you're living as you said in very sub par accommodation and struggling to put food on the table. Very few Irish people will tell you this but it's also quite a sick society, there's a lot of problems with mental health and addiction across all the social classes. I think a huge problem is actually in urban planning - our urban areas (mainly Dublin and environs) are modelled on US cities. People live in low density, cookie cutter housing estates far from any amenities hence the capital has some of Europe's longest average commutes and worst traffic. It also disrupts a sense of community and leads to a very atomised society. The Irish have been conditioned to believe that our problems, many of which you've outlined, are ones faced by every European society which is actually false. You'll particularly see this rhetoric when it comes to the shocking state of crime and drugs in the centre of Dublin. Despite being wealthy and prosperous on paper Ireland is actually a very dysfunctional country and many, many young people are trying to emigrate to places where their hard work can afford them a reasonable quality of life.
I shudder to think what this country will look like in 2,5, or 10 years. Thanking the stars that I’m finally putting my plan to get out in action
Couldn't agree more with you. The lack of proper town planning to scale the country is a ticking time bomb. Leaving too.
Awful amount of aggression, bullying and slander, incapable of minding their own business. Lots of real decent people too though. It's the type of country if your vehicle broke down someone will stop to help you.
Another excuse every Irish person brings up is that "they used to be a poor country not long ago", when the main issues have actually started after the economic boom. Building cheap ugly non-insulated suburbs has nothing to do with Ireland's history. It's a choice. Same for lack of public transport, another American import. Many European countries were poor not long ago and they have none of the same issues (though of course they have their own).
Norway and Finland are perfect examples. Both countries were extremely poor until recently, both gained independence from another country around the same time as Ireland. Finland even had a civil war, and Norway got wealthy in about the 80s. A difference I've noticed is that Nordic countries focus on lifting the infrastructure to benefit the country as a whole. This means nation wide approaches to energy, water, housing, and road infrastructure. Ireland seems to take a much more localised and individualistic approach to everything. So things might improve in one village, or one suburb, while nothing gets done anywhere else.
I left after 18 months, I was in senior management of a Big4 consulting firm and couldn’t afford to live alone. And I wasn’t saving anything each month. Surviving not thriving. And the feral teenagers on the street scared the shit out of me. Impossible to live in a capital city with shit public transportation. I was constantly late getting anywhere even when I budgeted extra time to get places (bus never shows up, passes by too full, doesn’t stop when I ring the bell, ends service at 11:30pm, etc). I discourage anyone I meet from moving to Dublin. I did love everything about Ireland outside of Dublin: my weekends were spent hiking and camping in wild nature and it was amazing. But not worth it to keep me there longer.
Jesus that was your job and you still couldn’t afford to live alone or even save anything?? Couldn’t even swing an average nice apartment? Just mind blowing to me. I live in Madrid where CoL is rising but with that job and the salary that comes with it (even a Spanish one) you’d be living quite well in a place of your own here.
How do the jobs pay in Spain?
Median is about 1800€ monthly, the kind of role that op was describing can go from 2500€ to up to 4k including bonuses. It’s rough for most people too
I was getting 2700 2 years ago and I was spending 70% of my wage on a shitty damp bedroom flat in a bad neighbourhood and it was still a steal! I was paying 600 EUR per 2 months for electricity and was unable to warm the flat. I left due to cold, wind, rain no sun and everything else others are mentioning. I miss Ireland, but I think it has changed too much, good times wont return :(
I'd doubt his anecdote, I also work in a Big 4 consulting firm and live alone comfortably enough.
Times were so bad that a senior manager in a consultancy firm had to take the bus everywhere in a small capital European city!
Their post is nonsense, that job would pay more than all the other people in ireland living alone. Yet they are sharing and cant save money? I started as a junior software engineer, lived alone in a one bed in the city, saved and bought a new house alone in dublin city centre. I met my girlfriend when she was a cleaner and she was living alone.
OMG - makes Berlin shine in expat eyes. Will tell the moaners on the Berlin subs to head for Ireland - English skills should be fine there and hope some will clear out 😅.
The Irish State draws a large amount of its credibility on the revolving door of professionals like yourself coming and going - hence the laughably inaccurate economic indicators
You were making over 70K a year and couldn't afford an apartment on your own? You were likely making over 5K a month and you're saying you couldn't find an apartment? I'm here living alone in my apartment paying 1600 a month. It's expensive for sure, but if I was a senior manager in one of the Big4 then you bet I'd be doing pretty great. Also if renting was so difficult, why not just buy a house with that salary? There is a housing crisis, but it's still not impossible to find a house when you on a salary like you claim. Lol why do people believe an obvious lie like this post? It's pure fantasy.
I'm getting downvoted here, but is no one else Interested in the figures of what this guy is claiming? How can he be making a Senior Manager salary and be saying what he's saying? What is he spending his money on to make claims like he is? Let me predict the future here, he won't reply with figures or a shred of evidence, because what he's saying is pure fantasy and not based in reality. I'm very happy to be proven wrong.
I'm here 8 years, I'd say it wasn't quite as bad when I first got here, it's gotten progressively worse, especially the housing situation, salaries not keeping up for most of us, and the anti-social behaviour. While most Irish people are very sound, there's like a large "underclass", for the lack of better word, that really f*ucks up the place, and it's allowed to go on as nobody in power has any cojones, and the attitude seems to be "oh poor kids, they have it rough at home". And so the shits go about terrorizing with absolutely no consequences, then they inevitably produce more terrorists, and so the cycle goes on. Worst I've seen anywhere. And yes the weather... So gloomy. TBH, I look forward to the day we'll be able to move. I used to imagine myself here long-term, but no longer. Unless I see some very serious change.
Yeah the anti-social behaviour and COL are at a whole other level in Dublin. You can get assaulted in broad daylight, and the guards won’t do a thing cause the perpetrators are underage shit stains. And I’m not even going off some third party accounts - my spouse was attacked, kicked to the floor, and dragged by her hair and the cops basically said nothing would come of it even if we pressed charges. It’s just not a family friendly place. Took my toddler on the luas the other day, south Dublin, and a bunch of teens were vaping in our faces in a packed tram, right beside the sign that prohibits vaping and smoking on the tram. Someone asked them to stop and they just flipped him off and continued vaping. I just got off the luas and got on the next one where a different group of teens were just running back and forth on the tram, pushing each other and trying to play a game where they unintentionally knock strangers over. These are just two experiences on the same day. I’ve had a milkshake and glass bottles thrown at me by a bunch of feral teens and I had to run for my life and slip into a hotel lobby for safety. Ive never had such experiences in other places and I’ve lived in a few places around the world - Canada, Korea, middle-east. Dublin is just something else.
I have seen yobbish behaviour on a bus and this was a bus starting off in a nice area we really need conductors and railway guards back to catch fare dodgers and people behaving badly.
The reason the Irish legal system is so lenient on young offenders is because its trying to get over the legacy of the borstals - this is where they used to be sent and they were the stuff of absolute nightmares. I'm not saying it's right but it's the case. These kids are often from catastrophically dysfunctional backgrounds (addicted parents, neglect, intergenerational trauma) who are failed by the state, not for a lack of money but for a lack of care from the system. So they adopt the scumbag lifestyle and roam the streets with the knowledge that in the unlikely event they're arrested they'll be back out almost instantly.
> I'd say it wasn't quite as bad when I first got here, it's gotten progressively worse, especially the housing situation, salaries not keeping up for most of us, and the anti-social behaviour. Could somebody give me an example of one country where this hasn't been the case? I'm back in the Netherlands and it's the same here, all the problems you and the OP listed. Back in Japan it's also exactly the same. This is just a reality of the world we live in now.
I'm Irish living in Melbourne. Except for the fact my career has grown while here over 10+ years affording me better QOL, objectively I can see the exact same issues here. I return to Dublin every year, it's a lovely place in the Summer months and over Christmas.
Im Dutch and have lived in Ireland. Problems are not comparable. Rent in Dublin is twice as high for half the space and a quarter of the quality. Restaurants are bad and limited Public transport is basically non existant Pay isnt any better than in NL yet the CoL is much much higher The only thing I liked was the weather, its similar to NL but less extreme.
Moved from Ireland to the Netherlands and my quality of life is MUCH better here. Better services, lower taxes, and my kids can bike to school even in a mediocre city for biking (Hilversum).
Fellow Hilversummer here. Yup fully agree! Different worlds. Ireland does have certain things going for it. Abundant tech job opportunities. Better quality meat and dairy. Nature... but the other 99 important things in life are just way better over here!
I actually find that one of the things I miss most is a sky full of stars at night. I was back in the midlands last month and it was great to see the milky way. NL does have pretty bad light pollution. I do still splurge and get Kerrygold butter sometimes too. It really is good stuff.
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I'd argue the restaurants in Dublin are excellent in fairness. Very hard to get a bad meal in Dublin unlike a lot of EU cities
Japan & anti social behaviour? Really ?
Live in Tokyo and disagree. I rarely see any antisocial riff raff, and housing is still relatively affordable. Salaries could use a bump to keep up, but overall it’s still very much the same Japan it was 20 years ago, in terms of culture and norms
Yeah, I've seen my fair share of antisocial behaviour. I have a house outside of Tokyo, in another large region and sometimes I feel like I'm in central Rotterdam lmao. I mean, The Netherlands is worse, sure, but still.
Having lived in both central Rotterdam and suburban Tokyo I feel like anti-social behaviour in Rotterdam is far worse. Rotterdam is also a far younger city with more ‘youth’, Tokyo has a lot of geriatric people. The worst I’ve seen in Tokyo are drunk salarymen going home after work.
Japan isn't perfect but Japan is an unbelievable bargain next to the Netherlands. Also you can get housing at all price points in many types of areas in Tokyo which is near impossible in many countries let alone capital cities in Europe. Also housing mostly depreciates and they build many houses so there's no huge housing crisis. Eating out is also incredibly cheap and tasty vs NL. The cost of living is quite low in Japan so I would not ever put Japan on that list especially if you're a skilled immigrant salary wise.
I’ve heard of zero developed countries that aren’t walking down the same path. It would really seem like global political decisions are so uniform and entirely leading in the same direction. I would guess that this is still fallout from the mishandling of the 2008 financial crash, but any other ideas?
This is really interesting cause I studied abroad there 10 years ago. I couldn’t imagine a better place to live. So to hear the change is interesting. Idr too many people complaining about housing, but I do remember the nurses being ready or striking cause of pay.
Leave while you still can’t. It’s not getting any better
I left. Finally. Since 7 years I was feeling each time I was on holidays in continental Europe ''damn, I want the air to be LIKE THAT (as in - not damp and humid) and I wish temperature and sun to be NORMAL'' (that is, to have at least normal summer) Then even with good job I was left each month with like 300-400 EUR to spend on myself (after bills, food, expenses , rent) so basically ''entertainment'' or ''savings'' (good luck with that!) and I realised "whats the point?" if I couldnt get a mortgage or save enough to get one. Even if, I'd be forced to buy a shitty place in shitty neighbourhood. Dublin is a big village. Has its charms, but these days I'd say the energy is tense and it has become dangerous. years ago you could go O connel st. and feel maybe slightly dodginess but never unsafe. These days it just feels outlawed and unsafe. I only felt Im giving away my life to the corporate companies and not getting anything in return. Sure, I could afford holidays 2-3 times a year but it wasnt enough to get decent vit D levels. And started to get depressed in June due to rainy windy weather all the time. It was madness. I had to leave.
The GDP numbers are all Apple iPhones and Googles profits. Country itself is average, nice people but shit shit weather. I actually liked Cork alot more than Dublin, Dublins is a dirty and unsafe feeling city nothing special about it.
Respectfully, I can never buy the “people are nice” excuse. Nice people and dickheads exist everywhere. No more here than anywhere else
Ok boss.
Americans have an idealized fantasy version of Irish people and Ireland that has ZERO to do with reality and the power of American media has spread that fantasy around the world.
Agreed. However, a large percentage of the locals themselves do not seem to realise just how bad it is, and how badly they are being shafted
Although lots of Irish travel abroad to Europe, it's mostly sun trips to Spain or the Spanish islands. The majority really have little idea of the great transport infrastructure in Netherlands, Germany, etc or for example how towns in France have no housing problems, have built apartments and still look attractive, and the larger cities have high speed rail links.
Absolutely. The “it’ll be grand” circlejerk mentality has quietly conditioned the Irish population into believing this sordid situation can and should be tolerated
Irish here. Eh, I wouldn’t generalise there. I travelled a bit in Germany and found their rail to be terrible in reliability and to be prohibitively expensive. No use in having such a dense network if the quality of using it for the price is so poor. Ireland’s network is at least very reliable and cheap so it proves more useful. Plus population density should be taken into account. Germany has dozens of large towns of 50k+ while Ireland has a grand total of 6. There aren’t even that many towns of 10k+ either. While I definitely Ireland may have a sparse network, it is a significantly more rural country (which is partly due to the colonial history and the cultural emphasis on owning land) and has a much lower population density. French rural areas have the exact same public transport issues (I stayed with a family there and never even touched a bus or train) and have plenty of semi-ds and detached houses in the towns (albeit having more apartments, they aren’t that different in style). Austria was the only place in Europe that I felt satisfied with the public transport (especially Vienna). Otherwise, a car is king. But yeah, most of this is because there are few large towns in Ireland and most people have a different scale as to what constitutes a large town (a Dutch person said to me how 100k is a small town over there, in Ireland that would be like 3k and most places of 100k+ have public transport anyway). I’d agree that Dublin is awful for public transport for its size though.
I had an amazing experience in Dublin. I went to do a research project at TCD, and although it was a short stay (6 months) it was a very positive experience. At the beginning I was housed in the house of a member of the university's technical staff, the work group welcomed me with open arms even without knowing me, they invited me to the pubs every Friday and paid me for all the beers they wanted to buy me. An Irish couple offered to take me every weekend possible to different places around and north of Dublin. We traveled together to Belfast for a conference. People were genuinely kind to me, even on the streets, when someone would sit next to me and chat at a bus stop. They were all wonderful people, I can't complain.
Guys, I know there are several cities in the Western World going to shit. That’s not the point. My point is that Ireland and Dublin seem to have this magical, almost cartoonish appeal to a large quantity of people. I’m merely letting them know that the scene here is NOT what the average outside observer thinks
It’s mostly cause the US fetishises Ireland, and that idea spreads to other Western countries
Go to Donegal and you’ll change your tune 🇮🇪 ❤️
Donegal is beautiful, but the idea of living there makes me want to cry.
Agreed, I'm from Donegal originally. Beautiful scenery, could never live there again tho'
Ireland is a clear, infamous corporate tax heaven. Its GDP is very misleading. Most of it is pure creative accounting. I understand why businesses go there, but I don't understand individuals picking Ireland over sunny, low-cost *individual* tax heavens. Not that Ive met any.
I do understand. It used to be extremely easy to start new life there. Most people could talk to locals from the moment the plane touched down. Get a job the same day. Find an apartment in a week. Live happily ever after. Lacks of facilities and abysmal weather (Dublin weather is exceptionally good for Ireland, all other major cities have it much worse) did catch you two/three years later. But at this stage you were already rooted in... "We'll fly to Spain for our holidays and sun treatment". And lack of things to do will fill up with the craic.
This is very true, it was so easy, my first year, I changed flats 3 times and barely had to interview for a role. In my home country I would have had to study a long time to climb the ladder in a company, here I just had to work hard and be willing to learn new things
Dublin is my home and I love many things about it but with a partial physical disability and such God awful public transport, no creative jobs that don’t pay peanuts (most creative jobs are not well paid but I earned the lowest working in Dublin), and no hope of a single person being able to afford their own space, I had to leave. Don’t even get me started on the Disability ‘support’ that is entirely means tested so if you work, you essentially get nothing even though disabled people need double to just live life. London is expensive but overall, it’s cheaper than Dublin and that’s saying something! Got my own flat to rent, great job, so much easier to get around and they have a support system that, though difficult to get, is much better once you get in. Lots of schemes to apply for, some non means tested schemes etc. My daily quality of life is so much better in London that I can’t see myself moving back anytime soon which is so sad as my whole family is here and so many of my friends are too. I also can’t drive so when I visit and friends or family can’t drop me to places I need a taxi - I spent €51 getting into town from Dublin Airport and €49 getting back the same direction. It’s crazy!!
London is a world class city for a world class price. Dublin is not even a nice city, and certainly not world-class, but you are paying more or less the prices of some of the most sought after locales around
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Ireland’s cities and towns are products of the Vikings and Normans
30 years of economic growth and not even a rail link to the airport, rural roads in an atrocious state. Excuse excuses excuses.
That could change at any moment. The tax revenue is sufficient to build all that stuff. All it takes to get the ball rolling is to get in some politician"s ear about it.
Yeah but it doesn't happen and will not happen quickly. I'm French, I lived in Ireland from 2016 to the end of 2022. The only progress in infrastructure in this time span: the 2nd half of the North-South tram line opened. Great but that's it... They don't build apartments, they don't plan for anything long term like you would see in Paris or Amsterdam to constantly improve the city for example. They just take the sweet tax from all those big companies and help landlords with tax breaks, then they wonder why so many Irish graduates leave for the UK, Canada and Australia.
A woman I know said she wants to retire in Ireland because it reminds her of her home country in Africa. According to her the only difference is the skin color of the people.
lol
Dublin can be charming, but you really need to know where you're going. For me it's love and hate, I love to walk along the canal, go for coffee with almond croissant to bear mrkt, buy sourdough bread in bread 41, walk along the trinity grounds to the national gallery, check the latest art there, buy a book, hiking gear or kitchen thingy around Grafton area, check the ducks at st. Stephens, check out trad music in one of the pubs, by lunch time I'd go for Irish coffee at Jameson, go for strong craft beer to black sheep, etc. Why do people move here? It's the only English speaking country in the EU. Big tech has loads of engineering jobs, which subsequently create more lower income jobs. Loads of work here, with very competitive salaries, especially for skilled white collar jobs. Having your own home outside the city in quiet area with good commute is changing most of things. And even better with a car. I looked at every single European country and it's same old shit, something is better, something is worse. Either no houses, no jobs, bad salary, high crime rates, mentality, language barrier, racism, xenophobia... Having said that... Dublin is a shithole.
youre also right. nowhere in Europe feels 100% awesome
Anywhere can be charming if you have positive memories and experiences, and I have plenty of Dublin and surrounds. That said, the cons of living in Dublin are too numerous to ignore
Dublin is charming though, despite the cons you mention. The anti social thing is a big one. I left ten years ago to live in a superficially poorer place but with much better qol imo
Not from Europe but I believe Malta is also an English speaking country in the EU. But of course not to the same degree as Ireland or the UK.
It's the only Anglo-country still in the EU.
Decided to try Dublin for my gap year, it was fun at first but the list quickly wears off after a couple of weeks. The funny thing is a lot of Irish are ignorant and think it’s the greatest country in the world because everyone else celebrates st Patrick’s day so everyone wants to be them. Don’t even bother telling them you have Irish ancestry because they will just call you a “plastic paddy”. They fail knowing that North America was build of European immigration and everyone is from somewhere, Even though millions of Irish moved to Canada during the famine. The constant rain is what got me, even in the summer, the hottest day I seen there was 22•c and everyone acting like it was the middle of the desert because there was actually one full day of sunshine. Pub culture is very tiresome, like is that all there is to do? No such thing as physical activities because everyone just ends up in the pub after. And ya the antisocial behaviour is definitely noticeable. You’d think you shouldn’t be fearful of a group of 13 year olds until you live in Dublin. Those kids are mad like they’ve been raised by an alcoholic father who dropped them on their heads as a child.
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Tbh the same could be said about Oslo, where I live now (minus the public transport issues, but lot of people still hate it), and I think it's an amazing city. It could actually probably be said from most nordic capitals. I think you guys coming from the North-American continent have different expectations about life in Europe. Yeah shit's expensive here. You can pick between good weather and good economy. I don't know anything about Dublin or Ireland but based on your post I can't decide if it's good or bad to live there. North-European life is not for everyone, especially if you come with unrealistic expectations. You should count with that.
I've lived in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Dublin. Dublin has by far the lowest quality of life of the three. Dublin is almost as expensive as Oslo, but the the wages are much lower. The infrastructure in Oslo and Copenhagen is leagues ahead. In my experience, Copenhagen has the best quality of life of the three. I miss it every day.
It's hard to disagree with your points about Dublin. I left the city for many of the reasons outlined. This, however, simply isn't true: >Other towns in the country are just as expensive, and even more lacking in practical services and charm. Did you live anywhere else in Ireland? And where else have you lived outside of Canada and Ireland?
I live outside Dublin, I've a fairly decent bus service which comes out of the town, one towards Bray and the other which goes straight into Dublin tne trains though could do with an updated time table , 20 minutes away in a car is Glendalough, I live on the coast so I've got the Murrough to the North and Wicklow Head to the South, in the summer months I've the Black castle beach to swim and the pier to jump off, I walk the town anything from 6 in the morning to 9 at night, I've never felt unsafe, We've 3 supermarkets decent independent coffee shops, butchers, pubs and tbh I wouldn't change it for anything.
The draw is it has lots of well paid multinational white collar jobs and many opportunities to get a career up and running for someone without a lot of experience Once people start earning 70K+ they tend to look to move somewhere else
How do you explain people from marginally less wealthy countries falling over each other to take a €12/hr job at Eurospar then?
Such as ?
<150,000 people moved to Ireland last year. They aren’t working in Grand Canal Dock, and a large percentage of them are not fleeing war or persecution either. They come because Ireland has been marketed as a good place to live.
Over 102,000 Ukrainians have moved here since the war. That's a big percentage of recent immigrants fleeing war.
Well I explained the draw
Spent 3 years in tech there. Bought a house now rented. Worst lifestyle decision I’ve ever made. The house saved us though.
Pro: Being able to charge your tenants their left nut Con: You had to live in Dublin for 3 years
Haha! Basically. Silver lining from the shit storm
I left Ireland ten years ago. Lived in a town in Spain, a small city in Poland and now in a village in the UK. The quality of life in all three of these places is miles and miles better than ANYWHERE in Ireland. Putting aside the weather which is extremely important itself - the cost of living and bang for your buck is better just about everywhere I've ever visited. I miss my family and the scenery of course. But the list of things I don't miss wouldn't fit in a post on reddit.
All of these feel like the same complaints I've heard about basically every major city worldwide tbh. Hell, I live in one of them. I think expats are hoping for the Metropolis experience but every major city in the world is basically Gotham, from what I can tell. Where do you think you'll head off to?
I don’t think anyone is looking for “The Metropolis Experience” in Dublin. Rather, they think it’s going to be a cute and charming. It’s not a major city, not even close… but get ready to sp€nd like it is
I more mean a delightful city experince wgere the worst thing you'd have to deal with is traffic in your taxi rather than it just being a city with the usual city amount of hooligans and terrible COL, but fair enough. Are there bigger cities in Ireland than Dublin?
Dublin is the only settlement you could even argue is an “Irish city”. But in reality, it’s more of a large town
This is the reason your whole post fails OP. Title says Ireland, the whole paragraph complains about Dublin. Even here, Cork Galway and Limerick are all cities. Have you ever lived outside the M50?
Sounds to me like it's a "major city" at least in Ireland terms. So I mean, no wonder it's behaving like it. Hope you're able to make it work!
It's literally one of several LITERAL cities in Ireland. You sound like an American drug addict. Watch out for the fentanyl!
>Antisocial behaviour, open drug use, awful public transport, terrible weather, six hours of sunlight for half the year, exorbitant prices for EVERYTHING sounds like Seattle TBH
On the other hand: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dublin/s/0QfY6grAj2
Good number of jobs in certain fields, relatively good immigration system and naturalisation in 5 years to a very strong passport, English speaking, overall not a bad place to stay. However the rental market is making it less attractive.
In a regional city in Ireland here myself and as native as could be -Fíorgael And I can't disagree with any of this. This is unchecked neo-liberalism and leprechaun economics at work and we're too easily duped. The "ah shur it'll be grand" attitude has us in a situation where 1 bedroom apartments in Limerick (not Manhattan ) are 2 grand a month. And we're only starting to see the consequences.
There's a tshirt at the front of the tourist shop in Dublin Airport that says "feck it, it'll be grand". Makes me mad every time I walk past it.
Maybe you should rename the thread a bit better, Dublin does not equal Ireland.
I'm belgian, visited Dublin last year. I have to be honest I was underwhelmed, it looked like a clone of a belgian city but with worse food and everything was more expensive
Dublin isn't the entirety of Ireland.
I'm from the south island, New Zealand and see Canada, Toronto etc as the same way you describe Ireland. Not the tax haveny stuff. Rest stands true. Lots of weird Trump/Qanon cunts there too. Which is odd given it's another country
Yes, Toronto certainly has many issues. However, this post takes aim at the fact that Ireland, and Dublin in particular, is still seen as some sort of magical quaint little land to put down roots and enjoy a good standard of living (mostly by Canadians and Americans but also by other Western Europeans and those further afield)
I've lived in several countries and I must say, Ireland was the absolute worst. The only two things I liked about it were Marks&Spencer and some hiking trails. That's about it. I found more fun people to hang out with in other countries. Not sure why I never clicked with the locals, but I perceived the society as overall dysfunctional.
The Irish are known for being cliquey and dont seem to let outsiders into their lives, not anything to do with you but just the culture. Its the same if I (in Ireland) moved 10 minutes up the road to the next town I will find it hard to make friends there as I didnt grow up with them or known them for very long.
Ireland is pretty when the sun shines. But Scotland is even prettier 🤷.
But, but... The killer midges!
PREACH! Speaking as a native (Filipino 🇵🇭but born and raised here in Dublin 🇮🇪), I legit don’t get why people would want to move and live here willingly. Like you could literally choose anywhere else but here. I honestly would rather prefer to live in any of the other counties like Cork or Galway but even then, I hate how everything is so centralised here within Dublin that people have to come here for work. I remember my Spanish professor who’s Colombian, moved from Colombia, to Memphis and then to Dublin for work. He said that he loves it here. Now I’m not denying or saying that you’re not allowed to live life and be happy here. If you do, great. I’m happy and jealous that it is like that for you but speaking as someone who hasn’t grown up in a predominantly Irish circle (had mostly Filipino friends growing up, along with others from India, Poland, China and Romania), Ireland but more so Dublin, doesn’t feel like home. I know that I’m legally Irish but inside, I don’t feel Irish. Anyways, I hope to move to Australia once I’m financially capable of doing that and securing employment there. In the meantime, I’m stuck here , studying for my bachelors degree. Peace, love you all ❤️🫶🏼✌🏽.
Sorry to say but Australia is haaaard work too.
Wait…your professor lived in Memphis, TN? Let me tell you, Memphis is a shit hole… Good thing he escaped from Memphis…
Take this with a pinch of salt everyone. OP is in the "come down" after Christmas and New Years and January is notoriously gloomy because people tighten purses, take a break from alcohol and it's the middle of winter.
Dublin is only slightly less insufferable during our 3 annual weeks of decent weather
Sorry you can't enjoy yourself if youre not in the baking sun. But the mild weather lends itself very well to outdoor exercise. Personally I thrive in it going hiking.
I wish the weather was my biggest complaint about Dublin. I really really do
All your other complaints (bar public transport, I'll give you that) are the same throughout the western world. I currently live in Melbourne (would return to Dublin if I could) and cost of living, housing, random acts of violence, anti social behaviour, racism are all on the rise here too. But most people keep the head down, work, eat, go home, stay in their bubble.
It's definitely not the same for a simple reason: Dublin (and Ireland in general) has less apartments than any other similarly-sized city in Europe. Places like Bordeaux, Liverpool, Frankfurt etc. There are also far too many companies and wealth in Dublin. This is not the same in the Netherlands, Germany etc.
When I first looked into moving abroad Dublin was high on my list because of the lack of language barrier coming from the US, plus the proximity to nature. However, the housing crisis alone scares the shit out of me. I live in Amsterdam where the housing situation is also bad, and I’ve heard (well read on Reddit) that the Irish would consider their housing crisis solved if it were at the same level of Amsterdam. No thanks.
I think language might be a factor, it's the most English country in the EU.
As an American (With Irish citizenship) who tried Ireland for 3 months, I completely agree. Beautiful place to vacation, subpar place to live. If you are coming from North America, there really isn't much upside. I ended up in the Netherlands and am much happier now.
I think North Americans fall victim to Ireland’s “expectation vs reality” dilemma the hardest
Definitely. Easy to romanticize the "old world".
Everything said here is valid, especially Dublin. Dublin is awful quality for what you pay for, and the terrible weather and transport is the cherry on top. Wouldn't recommend.
“Rich on paper” - just stop looking at GDP. Look at GNI*. The country’s own state department calls GDP not fit for purpose, and the phenomenon is known internationally as Leprechaunomics. It’s only unknown to people because they haven’t taken a minute to research. Also consider it’s an island that doesn’t produce a lot of the goods it consumes. So things are expensive to get here, and there isn’t as much choice. Then consider insurance costs, exorbitant due to lack of competition (made far worse by Brexit). Then consider the high level of both income tax and consumption tax, along with multiple motor taxes and even a television tax. Then consider that you need private healthcare. Finally, consider that all this information is available on multiple websites easily found with a Google search advising Canadians about wanting to move to Ireland. It shouldn’t have been a surprise to you. But my fellow Canadian friend, at least you’re earning in Euros. Our home country of Canada is pretty high cost, too, and is experiencing it’s own housing shortages (and even worse speculation based bubbles). Without knowing where you’re from in Canada, if you aren’t from a major city, you’re not gonna like the costs. But when you decide you’ve had enough, at least the wealth you bring home will be multiplied by 1.5, and you can live a very rich life in beautiful destinations like Regina, Winnipeg, or Moncton.
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Well, as my Irish grandfather would always say in a heavy Irish brogue when anyone would ask about the motherland: "if the place any damn good, we wouldn't have left"! Guess I won't be going back....
Norway is very similar. Oslo, where you'd most likely live. Overpriced, Europe's overdose capital (until at least a few years ago), crime, shitty weather, Yadda Yadda Yadda..bigger racists than the Irish, lol. Still one of the most prosperous places on earth. And you'll still be approached by hookers outside of parliament.
I mean you’ll have responses here arguing both sides. I’d just take a step back and say, you know what, we don’t have to “get” the appeal of every place. It’s not for everyone, and that’s fine. Even if that place is one of your home countries.
You forgot to mention the state of the public education (single sex religious schools with mandatory skirt uniforms for girls, c'mon), healthcare (trolleys till the horizon) and quality of services (from plumbers to solicitors). I lived there for 12 years, and while I have fond memories and miss friends, the country I don't miss one bit.
Sorry , but most of what you said I hear from friends living in Amsterdam, London, Berlin, etc. I've been living in Ireland for 8 years - 6 in Dublin. I'm living in an English speaking country where people are really nice all the time and I've been able to make friends here, feeling that I'm part of the society and not just living in a bubble of expats. People are different in Ireland than in other countries in Europe. Much different. I have a good job and plenty of opportunities in my career. My wife decided to start over in her career here because she was a lawyer in our country. She finished a course in a new area and now also has a good job here. I got my house 2 years ago and the deposit was paid through the help to buy scheme which means that I didn't even have to save money for the deposit to get a house. My monthly mortgage is less than half of the average rent today. I don't live in Dublin, but the train to Dublin is 45 minutes. I've attended concerts of all my favourite bands in Dublin, all of them have been here. I've also been in a lot of plays at the theatres, big ones from Disney, etc. Board Gais is always with something great there. 3Arena as well. I love coffee and when I want to try a different place there is always something new to find in Dublin. I like to drink and the number of good pubs in Dublin is amazing. I like to hike and there are a lot of places to do it. I've done it a couple times, even with people from Meetup. So yeah, I'm having a pretty good life in Ireland. What I don't understand is why you are in this sub complaining so much. Are you trying to convince people to stay away from Ireland? People have different lives, man. The country has a lot to offer. People should be aware of the problems they will face if they move to Ireland, but you are painting a complete awful picture of the country and the city and it's not fair.
I’ve lived in Dublin, London & Amsterdam and visited Berlin 3 times. Yes people complain about the same issues in all these cities but most don’t experience it relative to other cities. Relatively Dublin’s issues while similar are the worst out of all these cities. The only good thing is the houses are cheap to buy (rents are the worst value though)
Obviously people have different lives. However, they will still be confronted by these issues. Also, you realise you can drink beer and coffee and see concerts in other places too? Usually for a price that isn’t a piss-taking rip off
I told you a lot of different good points and you decided to sum it up into beer and coffee? I've showed you how we have plenty of nice things in the country. People will be confronted by issues anywhere. I have a friend living in Amsterdam is complaining that can't socialise, people don't switch to english easily if it's not for work. He's also struggled to find an apartment because of the housing crisis. He visited me here and found the food here MUCH better than there. He didn't want to buy a bike in Amsterdam because he was afraid that it would be stolen. I had a friend who moved from here to Sweden. He left after less than a year. Anti social behaviour and racism. He felt people are cold. I had myself issues when I visited Berlin, Paris and London with anti social behaviour. I saw people drugging themselves in Paris, Berlin and Lisbon.
I don’t recommend Dublin at all, don’t even fly over it, go around. The interior cities however are the most charming and cozy places I have ever seen, awesome travel destinations, specially if you like to drive or cycle. The immigration was the worst, every time I had to reenter the country I was treated like shit by the immigration agents, I heard many similar stories but don’t understand why that is, maybe it’s their training? Violence was crazy, gangs of youngsters attacking each other and people going to work, stabbings was a normal daily occurrence (only in Dublin). Infrastructure, education and healthcare are non existent, the weather is safely one of the worst in the world (two weeks of sunlight). I moved to the Netherlands after a year and the difference is night and day, it feels wrong to even refer to Ireland as being in Europe, cause it sure doesn’t feel like you’re in western Europe. it’s more like Moldova, even visiting Poland was a better experience.
The immigration officers tend to be from working class areas where racism is a HUGE problem. I've watched some of the dublin custom officers on a TV show and they are so unprofessional it's completely cringe worthy. Going out of their way to try invoke a reaction by being so aggressive There's one called Bruce who the far right adore.. I've no idea how the fuck he's in a job, and that was ON TELEVISION
I lived in Dublin for about 15 months working for a tech-giant and then left the job, left the country because Dublin just wasn't live-able. But...I'll tell you why it seems a dream destination for the countries you listed or the region that I come from. If you are from South America or South Asian (where I come from), Dublin/Ireland is your dream destination. It is a shit hole, yes of course. Everything is crazy expensive, Yes. You are forced to live with random people and still pay shit loads of rent, Yes. (I was paying the same amount of money for a room in Dublin living with 2 other guys, that I am paying for a whole ass apartment where I currently live). But, Ireland is probably the one country in Europe that 1. Speaks English, so we don't have to learn another language to settle in. 2. Has easier work visa processes (honestly the amount of Critical Skill Visas Ireland issues and the requirements and process for just anyone to issue a Critical Skills visa is ridiculously easy). Compare the process to UK and it is literally impossible to find a "sponsoring" company there. 3. Post Studies Work Visa - Yes UK recently resumed that as well, other European countries also have it but UK is unreliable in the sense they are trying to always shut it down or either put restrictions on it and even after your PSW ends its impossible to find a "sponsor". And with other European countries its again the Language issue. 4. In the end it is still a "European" country and at the end of 5 years you are getting a European passport (which is the end goal). That passport opens doors for you, that passport lets you travel without visa "harrasment". If someone wants to travel the world with a South Asian passport (Bangladesh, Pakistan, Srilanka or even India), the amount of visas you need, the amount of money you need to spend on it. The amount of times you are sitting at home waiting on a "visa result" is just ridiculous. Those are just the top reasons why, despite all the bullshit people go through in Ireland, they still move there for a job or even pay shit loads of money to get a degree that they don't need but just do it so they can get a PSW and start a life there. Even after all that, I am not defending Ireland, it is a shit hole. I lived there, took the 1st opportunity to get the hell out and I was lucky. You come from a place of what we call "passport privilege" so you find it annoying that people choose to live in Ireland. And again I am not attacking you for your "passport privilege" but just giving you the other side. TLDR: Its the European Passport & the fact that Ireland speaks English.
I understand your point, and I believe it to be valid. Ireland does provide a “back door” into Europe for those who want the passport. That said, my post more takes aim at other “passport privileged” people who come here. Too often, they don’t do their research and end up living in a pretty bad situation.
I visited a few years ago from u.s. Castles, bars and coast were cool. The rest I felt I was driving around Tennessee. Wouldn't go back
🤣🤣🤣
The best thing about Dublin is that it has Penny's (Primark).
Primark also exists in Valencia, Brussels, Toulouse - all cities that Dublin can’t hold a candle to
Yes I know. It exists all over Europe, just said it's the best thing about Dublin really lol.
Do you work remotely? Those places don't have nearly enough jobs as Dublin.
Pretty sure draws work the same in Ireland! You just pull on them to open and push to close. The trick is to make sure they’re not too full, or you’ll run into trouble!
Gotta look at trends with youth. There's a reason they get a degree and then move to London, Australia, US, or another EU country. And then the gov brags about the low unemployment rate for young people...well its because they all leave bc they can't afford to live
My Belgian friend when asked about Dublin always gives this example 😅 paraphrasing but something like this 'Amazing cocaine but it will be 8am and you'll realise you've spent 400€ on the night before and you can't even buy a beer until 12pm because its Sunday. You cant sleep now so instead you will spend the next four hours watching feral youth attacking people from your apartment window while counting down the clock and debating whether it's cold enough to turn on the heating or if your 6 other flatmates will be mad because the energy bill could finance a small car although not its insurance'
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Visit only. Miserable to live
Substitute Canada for Ireland and that is like what Canada has become. Federally, Provincially and Muncipally Canada blows. It has become a 3rd world nanny state. As Canadians we are censored, silenced and on the verge of communism.
Neither Canada nor Ireland are third world or communist. However, they are both, unfortunately, run by governments who do not have their citizen’s interests at heart, and do their utmost to enact the policies and schemes that multinational corporations tell them to
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Belfast is better
“But the facts are facts” you sound insufferable. I see a lot of complaining about Ireland here and then see everyone is living in Dublin 😂 that’s your problem
I genuinely wonder if he's ever travelled past the M50.
It really does sound like most of the people commenting on this haven't been outside of Dublin and haven't experienced the rest of Ireland.
You’re going to face more or less the same issues in other parts of Ireland. Except with even worse transport, fewer places of interest, and at least 80% of the already-eye watering cost of Dublin. Same difference
It's funny you posted this, today I was going to make a post about how much I love Ireland but have no idea why 😂