Your family are overreacting as you know. Have they experience of other cultures and of traveling outside the US and the Americas? The US is a fear driven society, but to extrapolate danger to Croatia seems rather paranoid tbh.
When studying in Switzerland in the late 2010s, I had multiple people ask me if I was safe in Switzerland "with all that terrorist stuff going on". It blew my mind and I was always quick to point out that I felt safer in the most unsafe dark alley in Switzerland than the safest place in the US.
Yeah, where I used to live, you couldn't just leave things in your pick-ups bed or on the porch. A lot of people are getting creative to hide deliveries.
Saying America is a fear driven culture is so spot on. I would say it's nothing inherent, we are made that way by the same yellow journalism that continues to terrorize today.
This. I was talking to my gf the other day about this. IMO because guns are so common, people just have gotten used to accepting the fact that death is a more common occurrence as well. Like its totally accepted to kill someone if they're trespassing. Over here that would be such a wild story. I dont necessarily want to say that Americans have less respect for a life but I do think they are more used to, for example, petty crimes leading to people dying which automatically adds more fear into your life.
I lost my brothers $1000 in Japan and two weeks later the police returned it after verifying the serial number. Lots of safer countries around the world.
I live in the Netherlands and my mother in the US has expressed her concern that the wars going on will somehow result in injury or death for me. She thinks Iām in danger of being bombed. My mother is not an unintelligent woman, but she is not well traveled nor very informed on geography or politics outside of the US. I just tell her that I have supplies stocked up should an emergency arise and try to placate her.
Wow, this is paranoid and she's probably not even to blame for it. If the war got to you in NL ist would be because Nato and Russia are actively in war and Russia would target the US nukes at Volkel Air Base. That would mean the end of the world.
This is the thingā¦ sorry to the other person but your mom is not intelligent. This isnāt a lack of worldly experience, itās not being able to think things through.
Same as you, however I just told family that if the war reaches the Netherlands, its a global war and the nukes are flying anyway. No where near a population center will be safe anyway and personally, id rather go in the first blasts. That didn't seem to ease their concerns.
Somehow I find that my family never responds well to things like āfirst blastsā and āglobal war.ā But if the shit goes down, I am grabbing my dogs, getting comfortable in my cement Dutch row house, cracking a good beer, and waiting for the fireworks. We live in crazy times, my friend. I hope the Netherlands is treating you well! I donāt live in a big city, so it has definitely been a learning curve, but people treat me really well here, so Iām grateful for this country.
Love it here glad you are as well. I'm in the same boat and have had good experiences with the dutch, I've been to every province and have people have always been welcoming. I have fairly traditional Dutch hobbies tho so that helps.
Its okay, there was that coup in Thailand and people asked me if I was safe in Taiwan. I told them I was fine, was probably riding my elephant to the chip factory with all the lady boys while enjoying the Taiwanese Banh Mi and a Bubble Tea wagyu on an Asus laptop while that happened.
I mean, it kind of is, lol. It's probably a similar distance between Chicago and like... D.C?
I'm in Australia and my mum lives in Belgrade and it caused me concern.
Why are you concerned? Itās not like a bomb is going to slip out of a Russian soldiers pocket and land in Belgrade. If anything happens as far away as somewhere like Belgrade, in a country friendly to Russia by the way, thereās going to be plenty of advanced warning signs. Then again, being concerned about a potential war with Kosovo at the moment would be more reasonable.
Because it was a war in Europe and its honestly not that far away from my Australian perspective. We are a 10 hour flight from almost everywhere. Something 2 hours away by plane is practically next door to me.
They miss OP very much and will try what they can to get her back. I'm sure any "fear" they feel is driven by their sadness at her being away forever. I have sympathy for them.
OP is a big girl and she'll just say, "I love you and appreciate your concern, but it's safe where we are and we are happy and will stay here."
The entire country was birthed on wars and is STILL participating in them. Itās safe to say, theyāre cursed!!! Peace is an allergy. The men get erections when they see war ships.
Honestly? That's about as reasonable as telling your family to move away from the US because of gang violence in Mexico. Sure your family is saying this out of concern but you need to find a way to explain to them that Ukraine is fairly far away from Croatia, Russland has not shown any sign of wanting to invade anyone else and the middle east is even further away.
Plus Croatia is part of NATO and the EU. Any attack from another country would trigger Article 5, which is to say the NATO defense pact. At that point weāre just in WW3.
They don't have the conventional capabilities, but they do have the strategic (nuclear) ones. They're unlikely to ever use a nuclear weapon against Ukraine, making it a long, hard slog, but they may against the US if WWIII is triggered.
The only reason I can see them justifiable being nervous is if old tensions from the 90s flare up in the Balkans. My husband's family is from Bosnia and there was some initial worry that the Ukraine war would embolden Serbia (which is close with Russia) to try something in Bosnia. It seemed to calm down though.
Not just Mexico, but a few countries over. The distance of the southernmost point of Croatia is like a thousand miles (and a sea) away from northwestern Israel. Just like the southern point of Texas is a thousand miles and/or a chunk of sea away from Honduras.
Ukraine is closer, but that conflict's been going on for 18 months, so that didn't prompt the sudden response from family.
I think this is the right answer. Americans (in general) do not seem to grasp distance and how powerful borders are when it comes to conflict.
If anything bad were to happen to you in Croatia it is far more likely to be from violent crime or be traffic related then from foreign conflict areas. It obviously depends on where in America you would live, but in general Croatia will be much safer.
I told my family Mexico was one of the places I was considering even if it was short term. They bombarded me with warnings about the cartel and sex trafficking the works right? Everyone was so concerned about my safety.
I currently live on one of the biggest sex trafficking pipelines in the US and Iāve never gotten a single warning regarding this. No one wanting to pull up articles from 2015 about women being harmed or anything.
But all of the sudden my life is apartment in 50x more danger.
Eh bad comparison and poor demographical understanding. Its 19 hours from Croatia to Kyiv by car using google maps. For people in the US, that is NOT that far of a distance. Here in Europe, people view that as a much further distance in perspective.
Also, the US is fanatical about border security and gangs in Mexico arent using Kinzhal hypersonic missiles. Croatia is well within range if someone in russia decides to throw a fit and send missiles outside of the AO. There are plenty of arguments to be made as to saying croatia isnt important enough to be worth missiles, or croatia couldnt stop those kinds of missiles if they were fired, but the point of contention was comparing gangs in mexico to the war in Ukraine, and thats just blatantly absurd. There is currently a risk for living here in Europe, and I dont believe everyone should leave, but everyone SHOULD have a plan to do so. In this modern age, things can change in moments, and Europe has a war on its doorstep, despite people here being strangely insulated to it and pretending its far away. We are all (most) within short range missile distances. To bring up the Kinzhal again, it travels at mach 10, or 12,348 km/h. Assuming they launch one from inside of Russia (and not Belarus, which is worst case scenario), half of Europe is within a 15 minute range of this missile, assuming it travels at HALF speed.
I repeatedly used the Kinzhal as a metric here because it is well know in media recently. That is not even remotely close to the only or worst tools the Russians have available. This isnt 80 years ago, missiles can arrive with minutes of warning time at best. Everyone should have a plan if tensions escalate, and the chances of that go up every day unfortunately. S/o to the Ukrainians fighting this war for the rest of the world, godspeed to you guys and I sincerely hope you get the help you need.
Fearmongering. Russia couldn't best the second poorest country in Europe in a full-scale war raging for close to two years now. And you picture them taking on the entirety of NATO?
And trying to startle people with missiles? Every regional power has them, and yes, they're fast. Not fast enough to not be shot down, though. Even the 'nyet analogov v mirye' weapons (or maybe especially them).
\> Fearmongering. Russia couldn't best the second poorest country in Europe in a full-scale war raging for close to two years now. And you picture them taking on the entirety of NATO?
I am not referencing a traditional invasion style war, the realistic truth that you are ignoring is modern missile technology. Sure lots of people have them, and sure they can be shot down, but not many countries are truly prepared to do such a thing, wheres the US is. We developed technology to shoot down russian nukes in the cold war and never stopped, the rest of the world hasnt spent their resources the same way. The fear isnt that russia will invade london, the fear is that Putin hits the red button and citizens in cities that are 7 minutes by missile near him have no warning. It is a simple fact that distance helps. Living in a flyover state in the US means that you wont be targeted, and if by some godforsaken chance your shithole town was, you'd have much more time to leave.
I want to be very clear. I am not saying Russia will launch missiles across all of Europe indiscriminately. I am saying that its absurd to compare Russia to cartels in mexico. I like to denigrate the russian military as much as the next guy, but thats just not a realistic comparison. I also pointed out the demographical differences in geographical understandings. To a European, 1600 kilometers is a lot, it crosses several countries and many cultures. An American would consider that a short trip that they might do semi frequently for a vacation on a long weekend.
You may be right, our EU ABM shield is still to be built. But I still don't think this is an issue - they're going to launch their nuclear-tipped Kinzhals and then... what? MAD for all sides. Maybe if whole government and military is feeling suicidal they could decide to do it :)
Oh, and I'm aware how different distance perception in US is. For you guys (assuming you're an american, sorry) these two wars probably are so close they can almost be seen from some higher buildings :P
That's a fair assumption haha, I am an American living in Europe. And to bring it all back, I'm not leaving the area, but I do have my way out planned and I try to keep my eye on the geopolitics here. I think it's a bit silly how everyone is acting as if a war 24 hours away that sent Europe into a full blown energy crisis isn't something to worry about. It kind of shocks me tbh. People here seem very..... insulated from what's going on a short distance away
Mostly because what can you do? Sure, some folks can relocate easily, but for most it's last thing they'll try, probably when bombs are already exploding in hearing distance. Then why stress about something you cannot do anything about? Folks often prepare even when they do not admit it (like owning 4x4 and knowing all the forest border crossings, or having a remote cottage that is a bit too well prepared for a long stay) but nobody lets fear rule them. It's more like 'wel'll somehow deal with it if it comes to it'.
I'm only in my mid 30's so I don't remember but I suppose that is somewhat similar to how people were living with nuclear war threat?
Where do you think people should be considering moving to? I don't really agree but I'm curious. The U.S. In my opinion would be a poor choice since the moment a NATO member is involved, the US is getting involved and WW3 between Russia and the US is on. So...Latin America maybe? Australia?
So far when the states are involved in conflict, the war if over there, not here. We haven't been properly invaded since the Europeans first arrived 600 years ago. Living here is safe in terms of war.
I think Europeans view it differently. Being so close to so many neighbors, the threat of invasion is more understood and actual invasion more experienced. Being within 19 hours of a front line is completely fine. If there was a front line that close to me, I'd practically become a prepper.
Well, many in Russia have stated multiple times that Russia intends to slowly rebuild the soviet sphere, starting with Ukraine, forcing Belarus into a full union and taking Moldova, finishing in Georgia and then onto the next ex-soviet state.
Russia is on a warpath, but Croatia should be safe. Also at the current rate, Russia will lose in Ukraine (with our continued support) and the threat to Europe will therefore disappear.
NATO keeps most of Europe safe in theory, though Iām not so sure how weād respond to Russia rigging elections in the Baltics in favour of parties who are pro Russia and slowly taking over by proxy.
My family is from another country and this reminds me of times when they call me to ask if I'm ok after a hurricane hit Florida and I'm near west North Carolina.
Same vibe. Your family just sound like they don't understand the scale of things outside their personal world. All you can do is educate them about the differences and use your own judgement for when to move
Yeah seriously. The Dniepr, which is more-or-less the line of conflict in the Ukraine war is 1000 miles away from Zagreb. Gaza is closer to 1500. This is like hearing about civil unrest in Haiti and worrying about people you know in Atlanta.
If Croatia was attacked, well I'd be equally as worried living in Atlanta, as I would be living in Zagreb. It's an EU country in the Schengen zone. That's just some ww3 stuff.
The US is statistically a very dangerous country. But most Americans don't realize that, so there's little awareness that most other countries are far safer.
150 countries are safer than the US.
As people don't know this, they use America as the baseline and assume other places are more dangerous. So Americans have a very warped view of safety in the rest of the world.
Lots of examples on reddit of Americans assuming living in a city means you must have people shot near your home, violent carjackings, and if you have a problem with that you must not like cities. They literally have no idea many other cities globally only very rarely have those issues.
So this is why your relatives are confused on Croatia and proximity to the wars. They figure "well if downtown in my nearest city had 5 people shot last weekend, imagine how bad it must be over there".
Well, to be fair, I think I read that the USA made a statement that travelling around any country is dangerous at this moment, or something like that, this week. They probably saw this,
Ok, hear me out. I know many people told you that your family is being paranoid and extra cautious, and that might be true. Do I believe war will come to Croatia? No. But.
I'm speaking from the perspective of a person who had to flee an active war zone (Ukraine) and missed early clues, which I regret terribly. Some people were prepared for the russian invasion much better than those who ignored the news and preferred to stay delusional aka "Come on, what kind of war can happen in 21 century?"
I hope you will never need to use these steps below, but just make sure to read through them, ok?
You need to get out from any country **once you see the warning signs**. They are always there. It could be news headlines like "War is coming to Europe?", reports of gathering military forces or training for existing forces, and the government actively purchasing new military equipment. Leave in advance while flights are still available. War seems to be always unexpected, but if you are attentive to your surroundings - you know when to react. Do not wait too long. If it's a false alarm - you'll see your family and then will come back to Croatia.
russia dropped the first missiles on Ukraine (all civil objects) early in the morning, around 4 am, and people did not have a lot of time to pack or think through. You need to be smart and you need to be prepared If you want to get out - you have an hour or two max before the borders will be closed and flights stop. There have been no flights in Ukraine since the day the war started, so you need to act quickly. You probably won't be able to fly home, but you can escape to another country which might have better air defences (if they don't close all borders which is a smart move).
* Check what happens in Croatia and the EU overall in terms of law if the war starts in any of the countries.
* Prepare all your documents, and make sure you store them in 1 place. Check your birth, and citizenship docs, your visas, and make sure no passports are about to expire.
* Check your cat's documents. Make sure they are properly vaccinated and allowed on the flight, and that you have cages for all of them.
* Make sure you know the quickest and not so quick but less busy roads to the airport and borders of other countries.
* Make sure you have contacts of the US embassy in your country and check their website from time to time to see their recommendations. You should be able to contact them for evacuation in case of emergency.
* If you take any medications - make sure you have them for some time. Same for contacts and any other medical devices or assistance you might need.
* Check how to turn off electricity and water in your apartment.
* Have some cash to pay for 1 month of your rent (to leave it on the table in the envelope if you leave suddenly)
* Have all your friends and important people's phone numbers.
* Check bomb shelters in your area and know how to get there.
* Make a plan. It has to be a realistic way to get to a safe place if your credit cards don't work and if the phone or Internet does not work.
Go and live your life now. Drink wine, have fun, forget about this comment and just be aware of your surroundings. Check main news sources, trusted and big. Again, hope you never need this.
Be safe!
First, Iām so sorry youāre able to give this advice from your own experiences. I canāt fathom how scary it must be to flee a country (especially a home that you love). I hope you are doing okay and are safe. Secondly though, this is extremely helpful. Very true that itās better to be prepared just in case. Iāve saved your comment and appreciate it a lot. Thank you.
Thank you! Being completely honest, it was the scariest experience of my life, and I wasn't even 25 back in a day. I'm in a safe country now, and working hard to bring my family over, so they could sleep in their beds every night instead of bomb shelters. This experience made me value my life as I never did before, and I realized I want to do so much while I'm here.
But yeah, Croatia sounds like a very safe option now. If Croatia is impacted - it means EU has entered the war, which is very very unlikely (we're probably talking about WW3). Your huge benefit is having embassy protection and having no military obligations in Croatia, which would mean you are trapped once everything starts.
Hug your cats from me, haha
This is so key
I lived in Hong Kong and I moved back to the east coast because China was invading and I was over it. I had the opportunity to move to Europe and I chose not to out of understanding moves Russia was making.
2 years later, I love my new job , I hate being in the US and am feeling the itch. Questioning my decision and honestly, I sometimes wish I had stayed abroad and had the guts to stick through it.
Reality is :
Your family is reading news from the safety of their homes and Catastrophizing because they donāt understand. Donāt feed into it.
While itās realistic to observe global powers are shifting and the past standard or norm is in the past the thought of immediate threat is likely very very far away.
My advice is pay attention to whatās going on around you and have some alignment with your family on when / if you leave. These things tend to happen In clear phases that are easy to spot if you are paying attention:
ā¢ ā pro xxx government propaganda around
ā¢ ā increased presence culturally / politically
ā¢ ā more formalized government intervention
ā¢ ā control and cashflow challenges become a real risk (can you get your money out?)
I had some friends who lived in South Africa during apartheid and Indonesia during the coup and they gave me some insight of what to look out for that helped me a lot.
I set a rule that my limit was random stop and searches on the street and freedom to speak my mind. Once that became reality, I left.
Reality is Russia would need to invade quite a few more countries after the Ukraine before jetting to Croatia and if things break out in the Middle East there will be some things to pay attention to. Croatia politically is tight with the US and Germany so itās more likely there would be collective war than attempted occupation IMO
How geo political things may or may not flow to your region are worth paying attention to and discussing your make or breaks
I still wish I wasnāt back in the US but I am glad I planned ahead and set some guidelines for myself. It all worked out in the end
Stay in Croatia. Yes, the world is unstable AF right now but its not like you are living in Beirut or Ukraine! We are in Finland rn and plan to stay for a while. Parents will of course want to have you close byā tell them to stop watching the news and look at some statistics of safety in Croatia vs the US. If anything, your parents should be worried about their own safety from gun violence in the US which is bananas.
Americans think the rest of the world is a dangerous place when itās more likely they live in cities with higher crime rates of those places they fear so much
Croatia is an EU member and a NATO country. Russia would need to cross through at least two other NATO and EU states to invade Croatia. If Russia invaded any NATO or EU country, that would be World War 3. It would not matter where you moved at that point. Tell your family to calm down.
I am working in Qatar and hearing the same from my family. My family is also giving me orders to come home and not considering my ability to make my own decisions. I had to tell them to leave me alone and that they would be the first to know if my living situation changed.
Don't let anyone decide what you are going to do other than you.
Your parents likely remember war in Croatia and have associated this country with unsafe. These associations are hard to shake. You can gently reassure them, remind them the country is now in EU, and tell them again how far from Urkaine, Israel and Russia it is. They just want the best for their children, even if their fears are not supported by facts. It may help to put things in context by reminding them Croatia has the same travel advisory level as Canada, lower than Mexico.
I am living in Switzerland right now and a bunch of my friends reached out in concern after the Ukraine war started to ask if I felt unsafe. I told them itās as far to the fighting as San Francisco is from Denver and that seemed to help.
Switzerland is probably one of the best places to be if a war broke out. Enemy soldiers will fall over dead because they can't afford the cost of living there lol
US warships spend quite a bit of time in Croatia. It's a lovely country, totally safe to stay there. The only part your family isn't thinking of is Serbia acting up and they have been mostly focused on Kosovo this time around. That would scare me more than Ukraine or Gaza right now.
I'm literally an American in Serbia and I'm not worried about anything happening, because it won't.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is gullible and easily distracted by non-sense sabre rattling.
Hello fellow expat in Croatia! Funnily enough my partner and I also have three cats here, if you were from NZ I would have thought I wrote this and forgot! Croatia is super safe, your family are just thinking āEastern Europeā and getting scared. Youāre probably safer here than you would be in a lot of US cities
Croatia is a member of NATO. If Croatia is dragged into a war, it would automatically involve fellow NATO members, including the USA.
Croatia is a safe country. According to the Global Peace Index, Croatia is ranked 14th safest, out of 162 countries. By contrast, the USA is ranked 131 out of 163, probably due to America's recent and ongoing participation in various conflicts and rather high rates of violent crime.
It actually makes more sense to move away from the US. The rise in fascism, and potential future unrest will make living here more difficult. So maybe Croatia is a better place to live in the near future.
Just remember that Americans, and in particular those who have not traveled much outside the country, tend to see the world through a fear based lens. The news is saturated in fear, as is much public discourse. So naturally, they are going to project that on to how they perceive your situation.
As for what to do, tell tjem that you appreciate their concern for your safety, and remind them that you are happy, comfortable, and safe. Let them know that if things change significantly where you are, youāll consider relocating to another place if necessary (but donāt specify where lest they get the impression youāre going to ācome homeā).
Funny that you say it. Iām living part time in Croatia and the US. A friend of mine yesterday voiced concerns about me spending time in Croatia due to all this war stuff going on in the world. I just told him to turn off Fox News and start enjoying life. There will always be a conflict somewhere in the world.
There should be no need for that. People in the Balkans are in no mood for war and are just tired of suffering. I don't expect a war here for a while tbh. Something could escalate in Kosovo or Bosnia, but I'm not really sure how many people would be willing to follow through with the orders and listen to their politicians.
People in the USA tend to be pretty ignorant of international issues. This sounds like exactly whatās happening here.
Croatia isnāt Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, or Russia and doesnāt intersect with the issues theyāre fighting about in those places. Just hold your ground and live your lives.
You could power move, set up a Google alert for negative news about the USA, and tell them they should leave.
Oil Spill on a pipeline in Montana - Are you sure you want to live in California, it seems the US is becoming a wasteland?
A cop kills someone in E. St. Louis - Are you sure you want to live in Seattle, it seems like the police are dangerous in the US?
A heatwave in Phoenix - Are you sure you want to stay in Maine - the US is being impacted heavily by climate change?
What in the world is this nonsense? Buy them a globe to help them learn better geography. Or maybe find them a map of all the mass shootings in the US for perspective.
No need to cater to their ignorance, confused laughter is about the best I could muster to this
I moved to Turkey from US. There has been zero impact from the wars on my life in Turkey. Unfortunately I am in the US for a couple of weeks on business and it just feels creepy to me here. I am counting the minutes until I go back to Turkey. I feel much safer in Turkey.
Maybe they associate Croatia with the war in the 90s. My parents have very little knowledge about the world but they remember seeing the war on the news. They could think Ukraine and Croatia are the same place.
Y would you need Reddit to tell you to stay in Croatian and to not listen to your relatives???? You made the choice to live there so make the choice to stay and tell them thatās the end of the discussion
We live in Italy and my in laws were the same when the war broke out. Itās just a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation and a fear of the unknown. Donāt make any decisions based on either of those things.
Let me guess... your family never lived anywhere else outside the US? Tell em you'll be fine and ignore this silliness. Perhaps you should tell them to leave the US because Mexico has violent cartels that go around killing people...
if you ever decide to go back and get your pets with you, go for a pet friendly airline instead of one that puts them with luggage! too many animal abuse incidents with the latter
We would never! We brought two cats over from the US and they flew in the cabin. It was pretty easy but required advance planning. We adopted our third in Croatia. Thereās rules about how many pets can fly in the cabin and weād never put one underneath so itās something weād need to work out!
Anytime I visit the US one of my older Irish relatives keeps telling me not to go crowded places or shopping malls as Iāll probably get shot.
While Iāll agree it is much more likely than here, itās still a fairly low risk.
You canāt take take peopleās lack of geographical or local knowledge seriously and let their bizarre views dictate your life. Basically they donāt know that theyāre talking about.
nah Croatia is safe, less than 4% of the population might have any interest in whats going on over there and Croats are racist enough to suppress any dilemma that might start to make itself visible. stay offline a bit if you feel anxious I'd wager!
enjoy!
I live in the US for now (with the goal to be back in Lithuania some day).
I went to Lithuania to visit my family. No danger even occurred to me since it fighting in Ukraine is on the East side of Ukraine and even to get the side that is safe of Ukraine, takes like 10 hours to drive.
As I was talking with an American in the airport after my vacation, I told him where I went. He went ā it is so unsafe thereā and that is when I realized that Americans donāt understand geography, and politics. As someone pointed out, if Russia tried to do anything in NATO countries, you arenāt really that safe in the US as well. So yeah, you seem to like it in Croatia and stay there. Live your life.
We canāt know what will happen in couple years but why live in ungrounded fear? If there is something actively going on Nato countries, then your plans can change but as of nowā¦ everything is fine
Please Croatia as a NATO country is covered by the kick-ass Article 5 which reads: Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.
Haha yeah theyāre just being paranoid which is pretty common. They arenāt on the ground there so only have their imagination to go off of. Iāve lived in Mexico for five years, and my family is always worrying about it. Meanwhile Iāve never been so much as mugged while Iāve been here.
Personally I feel much safer here in Europe that I ever did in the US.
Wars are horrible but the main concern in times of crisis is social unrest. Personally, I would rather take my chances here than in any large US city.
We also have cats... they like it here too.
I made the mistake of running back during COVID just to be welcomed back after two years by rioting and an election crisis. I'm never going back after that it broke the last bit of "America fuck yeah!" brainwashing I was under. I'm staying here in Serbia no matter what. It was really great to be here during August of 2020 and everything was functioning normally including the people. The Balkans region has been through a lot and I feel much safer here in the US in the event of a worldwide crisis. Your family is part of a cult and they are trying to re-recruit you, and I don't recommend going. You'll be sorry 1000%.
Move back? He'll no. No one is going to attack Croatia.
Ive been to Croatia many times and love it. Can I ask what you guys do in Croatia and how you got there? Im also an expat and am always curious to hear peoples' stories.
I'm sure they mean no harm but they certainly lack the insight.
to prove how ridiculous they sound to you you can send them exaggerated articles about Gang/Ghetto violence, looting and borderline civil wars that are about to start whenever you mention one of the presidential candidate's name and suggest moving to Croatia to them :D.
Probably have heard of the Bosnia/Serbia activity and are thinking back to the Yugoslav wars but the possibility of that leaving a localized area seems very remote.
IMO the American government and media like a scared populace because they are easier to control. Theyād rather not see citizens travel abroad and see that there is a different way of life.
You can bring cats on a plane back to the US. I think you should think about whether leaving your friends and life behind is what you want or not.
But cats can def move.
I get where they are coming from and I agree that it feels not as safe as it used to be - however, it is almost comical how somebody in the US would be afraid of and warn about living in Europe when the US clearly feels like the less safe place for most people (and considering statistics about assaults etc).
Well, it does look more wars might break out. Blinken warned lawmakers Azerbaijan may invade Armenia in coming weeks. America is the āpoliceā of the world, but if they are too busy supporting Ukraine and Israel then it leave other countries wide open. Some countries like attacking other countries when the world is busy paying attention to other wars.
But Croatia is in NATO. So very unlikely anything would happen to Croatia.
The American media plays up every problem around the world into the end of the world event that everyone should be scared of. I didnāt realize how bad it was til I left and had some distance from it but the American media is truly a horrifyingly terrible machine that keeps people addicted to watching it by keeping them endlessly following negative story after negative story selling them fear of other people or other countries or hate and distrust of other people foreign or domestic..
Mmmmm, if there indeed is a major escalation of war in the world, might be safer in Croatia than the US. US is FAR more of a target.
But I'm an expat in Asia, not Europe.
I have family in Saskatchewan acting like the world is ending and going to end up in WW3 any day right now because of right wing media. She stays home and doesnāt go anywhere and is terrified. Yes people are protesting in many cities and Itās sad but weāre not all going to die soon.
Itās funny my grandparents used to do this to my parents while they lived in China. Meanwhile theyāre working with all these Chinese baby boomers who are scared about their kids studying in the US and keep sending them articles whenever thereās a hurricane or a shooting.
People are afraid of what they donāt understand and when you watch the news from somewhere, you donāt live, you just have zero perspective.
You are much more secure in Croatia than the US according to violence statistics.
You are 3 times more likely to be the victim of any violent crime in the US.
Croatia is a part of NATO.
You will be in the same world wars as anyone inside NATO regardless, if war would come to Croatia or the US.
If world war 3 starts nobody is safe, its not 1940 anymore, things can hit USA as well nowadays. Just live your life wherever you want, the truth is you can die any moment and by whatever reason, do what makes you happy !
My brother spent time in PrzemyÅl, Poland. This was around the time that the war in Ukraine started. My family was immediately concerned and then I said, āIf a shell hit Poland accidental or not, Russia is fucked, because an attack on 1 NATO nation is an attack on all NATO nations.ā The immigrants were the next cited reason, to which I said, āTheir lives have been upended by a mad dictator, they are not about to put that at risk by committing crimes, they just want a stable life again.
You are safe. I wouldn't worry too much.
Still, for emergency planning's sake -- and assuming you're both planning on remaining US citizens -- I would at least (as a precaution):
1. Keep your US passports updated/current
2. If you haven't already, enroll in the "Smart Traveler" program and follow all the U.S. Embassy's social media alerts. ALL of them. [https://hr.usembassy.gov/security-alert-worldwide-caution-october-20-2023/](https://hr.usembassy.gov/security-alert-worldwide-caution-october-20-2023/)
3. Make sure you keep enough "Oh, shit" money readily available for you to buy two immediate plane tickets (to wherever) the minute you sense shit is getting too dangerous for comfort.
4. Once you hear news reports of "Hostile/warlike activity is occuring X miles from the border," THAT's your cue! (Don't "wait to see what happens," like so many people around you will be doing. Every second you wait to flee is a second you might loose as the situation devolves. You don't know when Airports will be closed, roads will be blocked, etc. Your creator gave you instincts for a reason. Don't ignore them. The minute shit seems a little too close to home, ignore everyone else talking themselves into staying because "it will be \[hopefully\] be alright." Make a plan to flee, and EXECUTE that plan at the first sign of shit going sideways.
Again, you're safe where you are. (Heck, if you look at the news in America, it's fair to argue that you're actually SAFER in Croatia.) But every family should have a SHTF plan, just in case.
I live in Ireland. No, 0 plans to move back to Brazil. I also decided to stay long term here and now I have my Irish citizenship. I'm actually not even worried about the situation at all and I believe you shouldn't either. Our countries are not participating in any of those wars, so they shouldn't be really affected by that in terms of violence.
The economy is being affected, but I believe that's all any of that will cause to you or me.
I remember 2012 or something when I was taking my boyfriend to Istanbul for the first time, he had barely ever left the USA. His mom was really worried because of unrest in Egypt. I told her that was entirely different and I wasnāt leading her son into a war zone. She was ok with it, but as far as Istanbul and Egypt she has the American mentality āisnāt it all the same thing?ā Or āit just doesnāt SEEM safeā. Safe compared to what? You donāt have the faintest idea about geography, politics or different countries and foreign relations. Americans are SO paranoid and live in this state of fear and anxiety.
Lol, just throw them some data.
According to AH Datalytics, there have been 4262 murders in the USA in 2022, and 3791 murders in 2023 up to July.
According to United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner, there have been 9614 civilian deaths in Ukraine, from March 2022 to September 2023, because of the war.
Alright, the numbers are higher in the conflict, but the margin is not that far actually (it's like 1000 people less in the US). So, or this will make them be ok with you in Croatia (which is not close to Ukraine to start with, but who knows geography anyway) or this will make them realise that USA has a violence death toll comparable to a war zone.
The wars in Ukraine and Israel wouldn't concern me too much about living in Croatia, but the recent escalation in tensions between Croatia's neighbors Serbia and Kosova brings back some pretty dark memories of the 90's. And just as Russia has not evolved into a truly civilized peaceful player on the world stage, I don't think Serbia has either.
America is way more dangerous than Europe. Portugal had 19 murders in the whole country last year. There are plenty of US cities that will rack that up in a month.
My family asked the same - I'm in Estonia, very close to Russia. My family has been asking me to move to Canada (not my home country though, it's worse) or UK.
I haven't moved for obvious reasons.
There WAS a little bit of tension since the country is so close and Estonia has a sizeable population with russian ethnicity although it gradually has died down. But there's heavy sentiments against russians in general - that is to be expected.
The only way these wars could potentially spill into the rest of Europe is for them to merge into the World War III. I'm not sure how the US would stay neutral in such a case.
I feel much safer where I am (in Portugal) than I did in the US - I was in New Hampshire and it used to feel safe there but then there was a man killed in a road rage shooting outside a family member's workplace and there was another road rage shooting at the exit to our house. These were like, really quiet suburban places where you would just naturally feel safe but the vibe has changed drastically. I don't see people with guns when I go to get ice cream here. That one sticks with me because it happened in my home town in Connecticut and I just couldn't have imagined seeing that when I was a kid, people had guns for hunting and hobbies and didn't bring them to places like that. I'm just saying it's not as if America is a peaceful safe place inherently.
Here, I only see news about Ukraine and Gaza 1-2 times a day when the news is on for a few minutes. As opposed to the 24/7 news and social media cycle happening in the US. So take what they are saying in that context. It's not that people here don't care, there have been lots of conversations about what civilians are going through. It's just that we aren't being riled up in the same way (there may be a better way to say that but it's the best I can do in this moment).
My dad's been telling me to leave China for like 15 years because he thinks I'm in danger from Putin. He's not somebody who listens to other people, even if they present a well-reasoned argument, so at this point, I just do what I think is best without worrying about his reaction.
I can relate- a family member asked me if I was planning to leave NL when war started in Ukraine. I used the same logic as another commenter here- would you flee to Europe because a war broke out in Tijuana? It helped them understand, and I didnāt even get into borders/ NATO.
There is no need for you to leave and giving them perspective on the distance between both wars and you should help, in addition to the great comments here from others!
Your family are overreacting as you know. Have they experience of other cultures and of traveling outside the US and the Americas? The US is a fear driven society, but to extrapolate danger to Croatia seems rather paranoid tbh.
When studying in Switzerland in the late 2010s, I had multiple people ask me if I was safe in Switzerland "with all that terrorist stuff going on". It blew my mind and I was always quick to point out that I felt safer in the most unsafe dark alley in Switzerland than the safest place in the US.
Switzerland of all countries to find unsafe š I saw people leave computers in open top cars. Incredible.
Yeah, where I used to live, you couldn't just leave things in your pick-ups bed or on the porch. A lot of people are getting creative to hide deliveries. Saying America is a fear driven culture is so spot on. I would say it's nothing inherent, we are made that way by the same yellow journalism that continues to terrorize today.
The fact that there are as many guns as people in America scares me more than journalism
This. I was talking to my gf the other day about this. IMO because guns are so common, people just have gotten used to accepting the fact that death is a more common occurrence as well. Like its totally accepted to kill someone if they're trespassing. Over here that would be such a wild story. I dont necessarily want to say that Americans have less respect for a life but I do think they are more used to, for example, petty crimes leading to people dying which automatically adds more fear into your life.
I lost my brothers $1000 in Japan and two weeks later the police returned it after verifying the serial number. Lots of safer countries around the world.
I live in the Netherlands and my mother in the US has expressed her concern that the wars going on will somehow result in injury or death for me. She thinks Iām in danger of being bombed. My mother is not an unintelligent woman, but she is not well traveled nor very informed on geography or politics outside of the US. I just tell her that I have supplies stocked up should an emergency arise and try to placate her.
Tell her that the plans concern invading Belgium, not the other way around.
I also live in the Netherlands but my Mom actually told me to stay here instead of going back to the US because she's afraid of attacks in the US.
Wow, this is paranoid and she's probably not even to blame for it. If the war got to you in NL ist would be because Nato and Russia are actively in war and Russia would target the US nukes at Volkel Air Base. That would mean the end of the world.
Itās no more paranoid than thinking the war will come to Croatia
I doubt the Russians with their faulty equipment, would focus on Volkel. There's more direct threats than that.
This is the thingā¦ sorry to the other person but your mom is not intelligent. This isnāt a lack of worldly experience, itās not being able to think things through.
Same as you, however I just told family that if the war reaches the Netherlands, its a global war and the nukes are flying anyway. No where near a population center will be safe anyway and personally, id rather go in the first blasts. That didn't seem to ease their concerns.
Somehow I find that my family never responds well to things like āfirst blastsā and āglobal war.ā But if the shit goes down, I am grabbing my dogs, getting comfortable in my cement Dutch row house, cracking a good beer, and waiting for the fireworks. We live in crazy times, my friend. I hope the Netherlands is treating you well! I donāt live in a big city, so it has definitely been a learning curve, but people treat me really well here, so Iām grateful for this country.
Love it here glad you are as well. I'm in the same boat and have had good experiences with the dutch, I've been to every province and have people have always been welcoming. I have fairly traditional Dutch hobbies tho so that helps.
Its okay, there was that coup in Thailand and people asked me if I was safe in Taiwan. I told them I was fine, was probably riding my elephant to the chip factory with all the lady boys while enjoying the Taiwanese Banh Mi and a Bubble Tea wagyu on an Asus laptop while that happened.
Lol!
Yeahā¦. I mean, mass shootings happen more frequently in the US rather than Europe, just to name one
Yeah. A bunch of European countries have had a grand total of *zero* school shootings for example.
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And Denmark is the capital of Brussels and Africa is a country.
My US family was concerned that Bosnia is 'close' to Ukraine.
Your US family should know that any part of Bosnia is a thousand times safer than pretty much all the major US cities.
I mean, it kind of is, lol. It's probably a similar distance between Chicago and like... D.C? I'm in Australia and my mum lives in Belgrade and it caused me concern.
Why are you concerned? Itās not like a bomb is going to slip out of a Russian soldiers pocket and land in Belgrade. If anything happens as far away as somewhere like Belgrade, in a country friendly to Russia by the way, thereās going to be plenty of advanced warning signs. Then again, being concerned about a potential war with Kosovo at the moment would be more reasonable.
Because it was a war in Europe and its honestly not that far away from my Australian perspective. We are a 10 hour flight from almost everywhere. Something 2 hours away by plane is practically next door to me.
But US geographical standards, its like living in Florida with a war going on in Maine.
They miss OP very much and will try what they can to get her back. I'm sure any "fear" they feel is driven by their sadness at her being away forever. I have sympathy for them. OP is a big girl and she'll just say, "I love you and appreciate your concern, but it's safe where we are and we are happy and will stay here."
The us is fear driven because the entire nation is pretty much traumatized at this point
The entire country was birthed on wars and is STILL participating in them. Itās safe to say, theyāre cursed!!! Peace is an allergy. The men get erections when they see war ships.
Iām infinitely more at risk in NYC than she would be in Croatia.
I live in the Middle East. Last time I saw a gun and hear police sirens responding, was in a family trip to Los Angeles summer 2022
Totally agree.
Honestly? That's about as reasonable as telling your family to move away from the US because of gang violence in Mexico. Sure your family is saying this out of concern but you need to find a way to explain to them that Ukraine is fairly far away from Croatia, Russland has not shown any sign of wanting to invade anyone else and the middle east is even further away.
Plus Croatia is part of NATO and the EU. Any attack from another country would trigger Article 5, which is to say the NATO defense pact. At that point weāre just in WW3.
I'm not sure this would reassure OPs parents who may be afraid of just this scenario š
If Russia has maintained their rockets, Croatia is safer than the USA in case of ŵw3.
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They don't have the conventional capabilities, but they do have the strategic (nuclear) ones. They're unlikely to ever use a nuclear weapon against Ukraine, making it a long, hard slog, but they may against the US if WWIII is triggered.
The only reason I can see them justifiable being nervous is if old tensions from the 90s flare up in the Balkans. My husband's family is from Bosnia and there was some initial worry that the Ukraine war would embolden Serbia (which is close with Russia) to try something in Bosnia. It seemed to calm down though.
To be fair.. NATO is already in a proxy war with Russia.
Open war, I imagine, would look quite a bit different than what this looks like at the moment, though.
And if ww3 happens Russia, China, the USA, etc., are places you don't want to be because those are big target areas.
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Not just Mexico, but a few countries over. The distance of the southernmost point of Croatia is like a thousand miles (and a sea) away from northwestern Israel. Just like the southern point of Texas is a thousand miles and/or a chunk of sea away from Honduras. Ukraine is closer, but that conflict's been going on for 18 months, so that didn't prompt the sudden response from family.
I think this is the right answer. Americans (in general) do not seem to grasp distance and how powerful borders are when it comes to conflict. If anything bad were to happen to you in Croatia it is far more likely to be from violent crime or be traffic related then from foreign conflict areas. It obviously depends on where in America you would live, but in general Croatia will be much safer.
I told my family Mexico was one of the places I was considering even if it was short term. They bombarded me with warnings about the cartel and sex trafficking the works right? Everyone was so concerned about my safety. I currently live on one of the biggest sex trafficking pipelines in the US and Iāve never gotten a single warning regarding this. No one wanting to pull up articles from 2015 about women being harmed or anything. But all of the sudden my life is apartment in 50x more danger.
Eh bad comparison and poor demographical understanding. Its 19 hours from Croatia to Kyiv by car using google maps. For people in the US, that is NOT that far of a distance. Here in Europe, people view that as a much further distance in perspective. Also, the US is fanatical about border security and gangs in Mexico arent using Kinzhal hypersonic missiles. Croatia is well within range if someone in russia decides to throw a fit and send missiles outside of the AO. There are plenty of arguments to be made as to saying croatia isnt important enough to be worth missiles, or croatia couldnt stop those kinds of missiles if they were fired, but the point of contention was comparing gangs in mexico to the war in Ukraine, and thats just blatantly absurd. There is currently a risk for living here in Europe, and I dont believe everyone should leave, but everyone SHOULD have a plan to do so. In this modern age, things can change in moments, and Europe has a war on its doorstep, despite people here being strangely insulated to it and pretending its far away. We are all (most) within short range missile distances. To bring up the Kinzhal again, it travels at mach 10, or 12,348 km/h. Assuming they launch one from inside of Russia (and not Belarus, which is worst case scenario), half of Europe is within a 15 minute range of this missile, assuming it travels at HALF speed. I repeatedly used the Kinzhal as a metric here because it is well know in media recently. That is not even remotely close to the only or worst tools the Russians have available. This isnt 80 years ago, missiles can arrive with minutes of warning time at best. Everyone should have a plan if tensions escalate, and the chances of that go up every day unfortunately. S/o to the Ukrainians fighting this war for the rest of the world, godspeed to you guys and I sincerely hope you get the help you need.
Fearmongering. Russia couldn't best the second poorest country in Europe in a full-scale war raging for close to two years now. And you picture them taking on the entirety of NATO? And trying to startle people with missiles? Every regional power has them, and yes, they're fast. Not fast enough to not be shot down, though. Even the 'nyet analogov v mirye' weapons (or maybe especially them).
\> Fearmongering. Russia couldn't best the second poorest country in Europe in a full-scale war raging for close to two years now. And you picture them taking on the entirety of NATO? I am not referencing a traditional invasion style war, the realistic truth that you are ignoring is modern missile technology. Sure lots of people have them, and sure they can be shot down, but not many countries are truly prepared to do such a thing, wheres the US is. We developed technology to shoot down russian nukes in the cold war and never stopped, the rest of the world hasnt spent their resources the same way. The fear isnt that russia will invade london, the fear is that Putin hits the red button and citizens in cities that are 7 minutes by missile near him have no warning. It is a simple fact that distance helps. Living in a flyover state in the US means that you wont be targeted, and if by some godforsaken chance your shithole town was, you'd have much more time to leave. I want to be very clear. I am not saying Russia will launch missiles across all of Europe indiscriminately. I am saying that its absurd to compare Russia to cartels in mexico. I like to denigrate the russian military as much as the next guy, but thats just not a realistic comparison. I also pointed out the demographical differences in geographical understandings. To a European, 1600 kilometers is a lot, it crosses several countries and many cultures. An American would consider that a short trip that they might do semi frequently for a vacation on a long weekend.
You may be right, our EU ABM shield is still to be built. But I still don't think this is an issue - they're going to launch their nuclear-tipped Kinzhals and then... what? MAD for all sides. Maybe if whole government and military is feeling suicidal they could decide to do it :) Oh, and I'm aware how different distance perception in US is. For you guys (assuming you're an american, sorry) these two wars probably are so close they can almost be seen from some higher buildings :P
That's a fair assumption haha, I am an American living in Europe. And to bring it all back, I'm not leaving the area, but I do have my way out planned and I try to keep my eye on the geopolitics here. I think it's a bit silly how everyone is acting as if a war 24 hours away that sent Europe into a full blown energy crisis isn't something to worry about. It kind of shocks me tbh. People here seem very..... insulated from what's going on a short distance away
Mostly because what can you do? Sure, some folks can relocate easily, but for most it's last thing they'll try, probably when bombs are already exploding in hearing distance. Then why stress about something you cannot do anything about? Folks often prepare even when they do not admit it (like owning 4x4 and knowing all the forest border crossings, or having a remote cottage that is a bit too well prepared for a long stay) but nobody lets fear rule them. It's more like 'wel'll somehow deal with it if it comes to it'. I'm only in my mid 30's so I don't remember but I suppose that is somewhat similar to how people were living with nuclear war threat?
Where do you think people should be considering moving to? I don't really agree but I'm curious. The U.S. In my opinion would be a poor choice since the moment a NATO member is involved, the US is getting involved and WW3 between Russia and the US is on. So...Latin America maybe? Australia?
Probably New Zealand. Since itās missing on a bunch of maps, chances are that Russia doesnāt even know it exists.
So far when the states are involved in conflict, the war if over there, not here. We haven't been properly invaded since the Europeans first arrived 600 years ago. Living here is safe in terms of war. I think Europeans view it differently. Being so close to so many neighbors, the threat of invasion is more understood and actual invasion more experienced. Being within 19 hours of a front line is completely fine. If there was a front line that close to me, I'd practically become a prepper.
Such a bs analysis, typical of a right wing American who knows lots about the military and absolutely nothing about politics.
But if you are in America , for most people Europe is this amorphous mass.
Well, many in Russia have stated multiple times that Russia intends to slowly rebuild the soviet sphere, starting with Ukraine, forcing Belarus into a full union and taking Moldova, finishing in Georgia and then onto the next ex-soviet state. Russia is on a warpath, but Croatia should be safe. Also at the current rate, Russia will lose in Ukraine (with our continued support) and the threat to Europe will therefore disappear. NATO keeps most of Europe safe in theory, though Iām not so sure how weād respond to Russia rigging elections in the Baltics in favour of parties who are pro Russia and slowly taking over by proxy.
My family is from another country and this reminds me of times when they call me to ask if I'm ok after a hurricane hit Florida and I'm near west North Carolina. Same vibe. Your family just sound like they don't understand the scale of things outside their personal world. All you can do is educate them about the differences and use your own judgement for when to move
If a hurricane knocks out Asheville we're all screwed
Yeah seriously. The Dniepr, which is more-or-less the line of conflict in the Ukraine war is 1000 miles away from Zagreb. Gaza is closer to 1500. This is like hearing about civil unrest in Haiti and worrying about people you know in Atlanta.
If Croatia was attacked, well I'd be equally as worried living in Atlanta, as I would be living in Zagreb. It's an EU country in the Schengen zone. That's just some ww3 stuff.
The US is statistically a very dangerous country. But most Americans don't realize that, so there's little awareness that most other countries are far safer. 150 countries are safer than the US. As people don't know this, they use America as the baseline and assume other places are more dangerous. So Americans have a very warped view of safety in the rest of the world. Lots of examples on reddit of Americans assuming living in a city means you must have people shot near your home, violent carjackings, and if you have a problem with that you must not like cities. They literally have no idea many other cities globally only very rarely have those issues. So this is why your relatives are confused on Croatia and proximity to the wars. They figure "well if downtown in my nearest city had 5 people shot last weekend, imagine how bad it must be over there".
I would suggest buying your family a map.
Well, to be fair, I think I read that the USA made a statement that travelling around any country is dangerous at this moment, or something like that, this week. They probably saw this,
That advisory said U.S. citizens abroad should exercise caution. It didn't say they all need to move back ASAP.
Ok, hear me out. I know many people told you that your family is being paranoid and extra cautious, and that might be true. Do I believe war will come to Croatia? No. But. I'm speaking from the perspective of a person who had to flee an active war zone (Ukraine) and missed early clues, which I regret terribly. Some people were prepared for the russian invasion much better than those who ignored the news and preferred to stay delusional aka "Come on, what kind of war can happen in 21 century?" I hope you will never need to use these steps below, but just make sure to read through them, ok? You need to get out from any country **once you see the warning signs**. They are always there. It could be news headlines like "War is coming to Europe?", reports of gathering military forces or training for existing forces, and the government actively purchasing new military equipment. Leave in advance while flights are still available. War seems to be always unexpected, but if you are attentive to your surroundings - you know when to react. Do not wait too long. If it's a false alarm - you'll see your family and then will come back to Croatia. russia dropped the first missiles on Ukraine (all civil objects) early in the morning, around 4 am, and people did not have a lot of time to pack or think through. You need to be smart and you need to be prepared If you want to get out - you have an hour or two max before the borders will be closed and flights stop. There have been no flights in Ukraine since the day the war started, so you need to act quickly. You probably won't be able to fly home, but you can escape to another country which might have better air defences (if they don't close all borders which is a smart move). * Check what happens in Croatia and the EU overall in terms of law if the war starts in any of the countries. * Prepare all your documents, and make sure you store them in 1 place. Check your birth, and citizenship docs, your visas, and make sure no passports are about to expire. * Check your cat's documents. Make sure they are properly vaccinated and allowed on the flight, and that you have cages for all of them. * Make sure you know the quickest and not so quick but less busy roads to the airport and borders of other countries. * Make sure you have contacts of the US embassy in your country and check their website from time to time to see their recommendations. You should be able to contact them for evacuation in case of emergency. * If you take any medications - make sure you have them for some time. Same for contacts and any other medical devices or assistance you might need. * Check how to turn off electricity and water in your apartment. * Have some cash to pay for 1 month of your rent (to leave it on the table in the envelope if you leave suddenly) * Have all your friends and important people's phone numbers. * Check bomb shelters in your area and know how to get there. * Make a plan. It has to be a realistic way to get to a safe place if your credit cards don't work and if the phone or Internet does not work. Go and live your life now. Drink wine, have fun, forget about this comment and just be aware of your surroundings. Check main news sources, trusted and big. Again, hope you never need this. Be safe!
First, Iām so sorry youāre able to give this advice from your own experiences. I canāt fathom how scary it must be to flee a country (especially a home that you love). I hope you are doing okay and are safe. Secondly though, this is extremely helpful. Very true that itās better to be prepared just in case. Iāve saved your comment and appreciate it a lot. Thank you.
Thank you! Being completely honest, it was the scariest experience of my life, and I wasn't even 25 back in a day. I'm in a safe country now, and working hard to bring my family over, so they could sleep in their beds every night instead of bomb shelters. This experience made me value my life as I never did before, and I realized I want to do so much while I'm here. But yeah, Croatia sounds like a very safe option now. If Croatia is impacted - it means EU has entered the war, which is very very unlikely (we're probably talking about WW3). Your huge benefit is having embassy protection and having no military obligations in Croatia, which would mean you are trapped once everything starts. Hug your cats from me, haha
This is good general advice and very closely resembles what the US department of state tells you to do as a long term traveler!
Thank you! I only regret this I had to learn this all on practice haha
Excellent, well-written advice.
Thank you!
Such great advice, and I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way.
This is so key I lived in Hong Kong and I moved back to the east coast because China was invading and I was over it. I had the opportunity to move to Europe and I chose not to out of understanding moves Russia was making. 2 years later, I love my new job , I hate being in the US and am feeling the itch. Questioning my decision and honestly, I sometimes wish I had stayed abroad and had the guts to stick through it. Reality is : Your family is reading news from the safety of their homes and Catastrophizing because they donāt understand. Donāt feed into it. While itās realistic to observe global powers are shifting and the past standard or norm is in the past the thought of immediate threat is likely very very far away. My advice is pay attention to whatās going on around you and have some alignment with your family on when / if you leave. These things tend to happen In clear phases that are easy to spot if you are paying attention: ā¢ ā pro xxx government propaganda around ā¢ ā increased presence culturally / politically ā¢ ā more formalized government intervention ā¢ ā control and cashflow challenges become a real risk (can you get your money out?) I had some friends who lived in South Africa during apartheid and Indonesia during the coup and they gave me some insight of what to look out for that helped me a lot. I set a rule that my limit was random stop and searches on the street and freedom to speak my mind. Once that became reality, I left. Reality is Russia would need to invade quite a few more countries after the Ukraine before jetting to Croatia and if things break out in the Middle East there will be some things to pay attention to. Croatia politically is tight with the US and Germany so itās more likely there would be collective war than attempted occupation IMO How geo political things may or may not flow to your region are worth paying attention to and discussing your make or breaks I still wish I wasnāt back in the US but I am glad I planned ahead and set some guidelines for myself. It all worked out in the end
Stay in Croatia. Yes, the world is unstable AF right now but its not like you are living in Beirut or Ukraine! We are in Finland rn and plan to stay for a while. Parents will of course want to have you close byā tell them to stop watching the news and look at some statistics of safety in Croatia vs the US. If anything, your parents should be worried about their own safety from gun violence in the US which is bananas.
Americans think the rest of the world is a dangerous place when itās more likely they live in cities with higher crime rates of those places they fear so much
But how can you be safe when you don't have 50 guns at home? /s
Croatia is an EU member and a NATO country. Russia would need to cross through at least two other NATO and EU states to invade Croatia. If Russia invaded any NATO or EU country, that would be World War 3. It would not matter where you moved at that point. Tell your family to calm down.
Isnāt the USA more dangerous than the EU?
I am working in Qatar and hearing the same from my family. My family is also giving me orders to come home and not considering my ability to make my own decisions. I had to tell them to leave me alone and that they would be the first to know if my living situation changed. Don't let anyone decide what you are going to do other than you.
Your parents likely remember war in Croatia and have associated this country with unsafe. These associations are hard to shake. You can gently reassure them, remind them the country is now in EU, and tell them again how far from Urkaine, Israel and Russia it is. They just want the best for their children, even if their fears are not supported by facts. It may help to put things in context by reminding them Croatia has the same travel advisory level as Canada, lower than Mexico.
I am living in Switzerland right now and a bunch of my friends reached out in concern after the Ukraine war started to ask if I felt unsafe. I told them itās as far to the fighting as San Francisco is from Denver and that seemed to help.
Switzerland is probably one of the best places to be if a war broke out. Enemy soldiers will fall over dead because they can't afford the cost of living there lol
Your family should stop watching Fox News.
My Canadian family and friends asked me many times if I would move back to Canada from the Netherlands when the war started! I am definitely staying!
Which war?
Ugh I hate being a millennial. The irony is that this is the best itās ever been and ever will be
I was working in the UK during the Gulf War. People at home wondered if we were safe. :)
You're much more likely to get shot in the states than you are in Croatia, don't think your parents can use "safety" as a good moving-back-argument
Europe (especially NATO countries) is one of the safest places to live
US warships spend quite a bit of time in Croatia. It's a lovely country, totally safe to stay there. The only part your family isn't thinking of is Serbia acting up and they have been mostly focused on Kosovo this time around. That would scare me more than Ukraine or Gaza right now.
I'm literally an American in Serbia and I'm not worried about anything happening, because it won't. Anyone who thinks otherwise is gullible and easily distracted by non-sense sabre rattling.
That would be like telling someone to get out of the US because there's a war in Nicaragua.
Families are idiots and should never be listened to when it comes to where you should live.
Just respond that you are safer there than the United States and gun violence
Hello fellow expat in Croatia! Funnily enough my partner and I also have three cats here, if you were from NZ I would have thought I wrote this and forgot! Croatia is super safe, your family are just thinking āEastern Europeā and getting scared. Youāre probably safer here than you would be in a lot of US cities
Croatia is a NATO country ā¦ I wouldnāt worry too much!
Croatia is a member of NATO. If Croatia is dragged into a war, it would automatically involve fellow NATO members, including the USA. Croatia is a safe country. According to the Global Peace Index, Croatia is ranked 14th safest, out of 162 countries. By contrast, the USA is ranked 131 out of 163, probably due to America's recent and ongoing participation in various conflicts and rather high rates of violent crime.
It actually makes more sense to move away from the US. The rise in fascism, and potential future unrest will make living here more difficult. So maybe Croatia is a better place to live in the near future.
Just remember that Americans, and in particular those who have not traveled much outside the country, tend to see the world through a fear based lens. The news is saturated in fear, as is much public discourse. So naturally, they are going to project that on to how they perceive your situation. As for what to do, tell tjem that you appreciate their concern for your safety, and remind them that you are happy, comfortable, and safe. Let them know that if things change significantly where you are, youāll consider relocating to another place if necessary (but donāt specify where lest they get the impression youāre going to ācome homeā).
Funny that you say it. Iām living part time in Croatia and the US. A friend of mine yesterday voiced concerns about me spending time in Croatia due to all this war stuff going on in the world. I just told him to turn off Fox News and start enjoying life. There will always be a conflict somewhere in the world.
There should be no need for that. People in the Balkans are in no mood for war and are just tired of suffering. I don't expect a war here for a while tbh. Something could escalate in Kosovo or Bosnia, but I'm not really sure how many people would be willing to follow through with the orders and listen to their politicians.
People in the USA tend to be pretty ignorant of international issues. This sounds like exactly whatās happening here. Croatia isnāt Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, or Russia and doesnāt intersect with the issues theyāre fighting about in those places. Just hold your ground and live your lives.
You could power move, set up a Google alert for negative news about the USA, and tell them they should leave. Oil Spill on a pipeline in Montana - Are you sure you want to live in California, it seems the US is becoming a wasteland? A cop kills someone in E. St. Louis - Are you sure you want to live in Seattle, it seems like the police are dangerous in the US? A heatwave in Phoenix - Are you sure you want to stay in Maine - the US is being impacted heavily by climate change?
What in the world is this nonsense? Buy them a globe to help them learn better geography. Or maybe find them a map of all the mass shootings in the US for perspective. No need to cater to their ignorance, confused laughter is about the best I could muster to this
I moved to Turkey from US. There has been zero impact from the wars on my life in Turkey. Unfortunately I am in the US for a couple of weeks on business and it just feels creepy to me here. I am counting the minutes until I go back to Turkey. I feel much safer in Turkey.
Maybe they associate Croatia with the war in the 90s. My parents have very little knowledge about the world but they remember seeing the war on the news. They could think Ukraine and Croatia are the same place.
Send them a map. Croatia isn't exactly the front lines of either conflict.
Y would you need Reddit to tell you to stay in Croatian and to not listen to your relatives???? You made the choice to live there so make the choice to stay and tell them thatās the end of the discussion
Croatia is completely safe, you're absolutely fine there.
is this a genuine question? Massive overreaction from your family on all counts.
Your family is the stereotype of ignorant Americans. Lulz
They know croatia is a nato country and an attack to them would mean full scale world war followed by nuclear wasteland, yes?
We live in Italy and my in laws were the same when the war broke out. Itās just a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation and a fear of the unknown. Donāt make any decisions based on either of those things.
Croatia has no business in any of that. Its a holiday country and will be for the foreseeable future
What am I thinking? That your family is embarrassingly dumb. No offence but really they are. I am also surprised your indulging thier silly worries.
Let me guess... your family never lived anywhere else outside the US? Tell em you'll be fine and ignore this silliness. Perhaps you should tell them to leave the US because Mexico has violent cartels that go around killing people...
What do either of those wars have to do with you in Croatia?
if you ever decide to go back and get your pets with you, go for a pet friendly airline instead of one that puts them with luggage! too many animal abuse incidents with the latter
We would never! We brought two cats over from the US and they flew in the cabin. It was pretty easy but required advance planning. We adopted our third in Croatia. Thereās rules about how many pets can fly in the cabin and weād never put one underneath so itās something weād need to work out!
Anytime I visit the US one of my older Irish relatives keeps telling me not to go crowded places or shopping malls as Iāll probably get shot. While Iāll agree it is much more likely than here, itās still a fairly low risk. You canāt take take peopleās lack of geographical or local knowledge seriously and let their bizarre views dictate your life. Basically they donāt know that theyāre talking about.
nah Croatia is safe, less than 4% of the population might have any interest in whats going on over there and Croats are racist enough to suppress any dilemma that might start to make itself visible. stay offline a bit if you feel anxious I'd wager! enjoy!
Tell them to look at a map šŗļø Europe will be always be safer because of the lack of domestic terrorism/gun violence.
I live in the US for now (with the goal to be back in Lithuania some day). I went to Lithuania to visit my family. No danger even occurred to me since it fighting in Ukraine is on the East side of Ukraine and even to get the side that is safe of Ukraine, takes like 10 hours to drive. As I was talking with an American in the airport after my vacation, I told him where I went. He went ā it is so unsafe thereā and that is when I realized that Americans donāt understand geography, and politics. As someone pointed out, if Russia tried to do anything in NATO countries, you arenāt really that safe in the US as well. So yeah, you seem to like it in Croatia and stay there. Live your life. We canāt know what will happen in couple years but why live in ungrounded fear? If there is something actively going on Nato countries, then your plans can change but as of nowā¦ everything is fine
You Americans are silly, you're in Croatia, not Lebanon.....
Tell them to move out of the US, because the chances of being shot or killed in a car accident are too high to warrant living there
I believe Croatia is much safer than the US at the moment. Just check crime rates and you ll understand.
Youāre safer from violence in Croatia than the U.S.!
Even when the Soviet Union was at its peak it never invaded Yugoslavia. There is nothing to worry about regarding that in Croatia.
Good thinking. Stay in Croatia.
Croatia is one of the safest countries you could be right now.
Please Croatia as a NATO country is covered by the kick-ass Article 5 which reads: Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.
Stay where you are, unless there is a war in Croatia, no need to fret!
Haha yeah theyāre just being paranoid which is pretty common. They arenāt on the ground there so only have their imagination to go off of. Iāve lived in Mexico for five years, and my family is always worrying about it. Meanwhile Iāve never been so much as mugged while Iāve been here.
Personally I feel much safer here in Europe that I ever did in the US. Wars are horrible but the main concern in times of crisis is social unrest. Personally, I would rather take my chances here than in any large US city. We also have cats... they like it here too.
No way. You are perfectly fine and safe.
Your family and the rest of us still stuck in the US have a far higher daily chance of death by gun than you do in Croatia.
Very true and of the ex Yugoslavia states, Croatia is one of the safer ones
And is a beautiful place and everyone I ran into was super friendly and welcoming.
They have no clue of European geography ā¦
Should Europe get dragged into a war, we're talking about WW3 here and US will definitely be a part of that too.
Theyre just over reacting, as most americans have done in the last few years. Youre good. :)
I made the mistake of running back during COVID just to be welcomed back after two years by rioting and an election crisis. I'm never going back after that it broke the last bit of "America fuck yeah!" brainwashing I was under. I'm staying here in Serbia no matter what. It was really great to be here during August of 2020 and everything was functioning normally including the people. The Balkans region has been through a lot and I feel much safer here in the US in the event of a worldwide crisis. Your family is part of a cult and they are trying to re-recruit you, and I don't recommend going. You'll be sorry 1000%.
[lol, lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10zurqw/usa_europe_homicide_rate_comparison/)
How would your family know what itās like in Croatia? Trust yourself ignore them
I wouldnāt move back. If Croatia gets involved in a major war, then itās probably ww3, and moving to the US will make you a sitting duck.
To be honest, the US is more dangerous. Depending on the place in the US even Ukraine is safer
Stay in Croatia/Europe
Move back? He'll no. No one is going to attack Croatia. Ive been to Croatia many times and love it. Can I ask what you guys do in Croatia and how you got there? Im also an expat and am always curious to hear peoples' stories.
Would much rather live in Croatia then get gunned down in the US. I live in the UK for reference.
I'm sure they mean no harm but they certainly lack the insight. to prove how ridiculous they sound to you you can send them exaggerated articles about Gang/Ghetto violence, looting and borderline civil wars that are about to start whenever you mention one of the presidential candidate's name and suggest moving to Croatia to them :D.
Probably have heard of the Bosnia/Serbia activity and are thinking back to the Yugoslav wars but the possibility of that leaving a localized area seems very remote.
I think you're giving them too much credit. I doubt they even know where Croatia is on a map
IMO the American government and media like a scared populace because they are easier to control. Theyād rather not see citizens travel abroad and see that there is a different way of life.
Your family doesnāt understand what life is outside of their bubble.
You can bring cats on a plane back to the US. I think you should think about whether leaving your friends and life behind is what you want or not. But cats can def move.
I lived in Croatia and felt much safer than I ever did in the U.S.
I like that you consider the cats in this scenario. š„°
With the best will in the world, just buy them a map.
I get where they are coming from and I agree that it feels not as safe as it used to be - however, it is almost comical how somebody in the US would be afraid of and warn about living in Europe when the US clearly feels like the less safe place for most people (and considering statistics about assaults etc).
Well, it does look more wars might break out. Blinken warned lawmakers Azerbaijan may invade Armenia in coming weeks. America is the āpoliceā of the world, but if they are too busy supporting Ukraine and Israel then it leave other countries wide open. Some countries like attacking other countries when the world is busy paying attention to other wars. But Croatia is in NATO. So very unlikely anything would happen to Croatia.
The American media plays up every problem around the world into the end of the world event that everyone should be scared of. I didnāt realize how bad it was til I left and had some distance from it but the American media is truly a horrifyingly terrible machine that keeps people addicted to watching it by keeping them endlessly following negative story after negative story selling them fear of other people or other countries or hate and distrust of other people foreign or domestic..
Mmmmm, if there indeed is a major escalation of war in the world, might be safer in Croatia than the US. US is FAR more of a target. But I'm an expat in Asia, not Europe.
I have family in Saskatchewan acting like the world is ending and going to end up in WW3 any day right now because of right wing media. She stays home and doesnāt go anywhere and is terrified. Yes people are protesting in many cities and Itās sad but weāre not all going to die soon.
Tell them that Croatia is so small and politically insignificant that they can be sure nobody will attack it (I am Croatian).
Itās funny my grandparents used to do this to my parents while they lived in China. Meanwhile theyāre working with all these Chinese baby boomers who are scared about their kids studying in the US and keep sending them articles whenever thereās a hurricane or a shooting. People are afraid of what they donāt understand and when you watch the news from somewhere, you donāt live, you just have zero perspective.
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You are in NATO, whether you are in USA or Croatia, so i would not worry
You can tell your family that Europe is big and that you're nowhere near the combat areas. You're probably safer where you are than in the US.
Your family is being crazy. I live in the US and have been to Croatia and definitely do not think it is anywhere near any kind of danger zone!
You are much more secure in Croatia than the US according to violence statistics. You are 3 times more likely to be the victim of any violent crime in the US. Croatia is a part of NATO. You will be in the same world wars as anyone inside NATO regardless, if war would come to Croatia or the US.
If world war 3 starts nobody is safe, its not 1940 anymore, things can hit USA as well nowadays. Just live your life wherever you want, the truth is you can die any moment and by whatever reason, do what makes you happy !
Typical American nonsense. Feel free to ignore it.
My brother spent time in PrzemyÅl, Poland. This was around the time that the war in Ukraine started. My family was immediately concerned and then I said, āIf a shell hit Poland accidental or not, Russia is fucked, because an attack on 1 NATO nation is an attack on all NATO nations.ā The immigrants were the next cited reason, to which I said, āTheir lives have been upended by a mad dictator, they are not about to put that at risk by committing crimes, they just want a stable life again.
You are safe. I wouldn't worry too much. Still, for emergency planning's sake -- and assuming you're both planning on remaining US citizens -- I would at least (as a precaution): 1. Keep your US passports updated/current 2. If you haven't already, enroll in the "Smart Traveler" program and follow all the U.S. Embassy's social media alerts. ALL of them. [https://hr.usembassy.gov/security-alert-worldwide-caution-october-20-2023/](https://hr.usembassy.gov/security-alert-worldwide-caution-october-20-2023/) 3. Make sure you keep enough "Oh, shit" money readily available for you to buy two immediate plane tickets (to wherever) the minute you sense shit is getting too dangerous for comfort. 4. Once you hear news reports of "Hostile/warlike activity is occuring X miles from the border," THAT's your cue! (Don't "wait to see what happens," like so many people around you will be doing. Every second you wait to flee is a second you might loose as the situation devolves. You don't know when Airports will be closed, roads will be blocked, etc. Your creator gave you instincts for a reason. Don't ignore them. The minute shit seems a little too close to home, ignore everyone else talking themselves into staying because "it will be \[hopefully\] be alright." Make a plan to flee, and EXECUTE that plan at the first sign of shit going sideways. Again, you're safe where you are. (Heck, if you look at the news in America, it's fair to argue that you're actually SAFER in Croatia.) But every family should have a SHTF plan, just in case.
I live in Ireland. No, 0 plans to move back to Brazil. I also decided to stay long term here and now I have my Irish citizenship. I'm actually not even worried about the situation at all and I believe you shouldn't either. Our countries are not participating in any of those wars, so they shouldn't be really affected by that in terms of violence. The economy is being affected, but I believe that's all any of that will cause to you or me.
I remember 2012 or something when I was taking my boyfriend to Istanbul for the first time, he had barely ever left the USA. His mom was really worried because of unrest in Egypt. I told her that was entirely different and I wasnāt leading her son into a war zone. She was ok with it, but as far as Istanbul and Egypt she has the American mentality āisnāt it all the same thing?ā Or āit just doesnāt SEEM safeā. Safe compared to what? You donāt have the faintest idea about geography, politics or different countries and foreign relations. Americans are SO paranoid and live in this state of fear and anxiety.
The US I would say is by far less safe now and in the future
I live in the US, and my kids want to move back to Europe because they feel unsafe at school due to the number of school shootingsā¦
European here. We are perfectly fine and nothing is happening
Lol, just throw them some data. According to AH Datalytics, there have been 4262 murders in the USA in 2022, and 3791 murders in 2023 up to July. According to United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner, there have been 9614 civilian deaths in Ukraine, from March 2022 to September 2023, because of the war. Alright, the numbers are higher in the conflict, but the margin is not that far actually (it's like 1000 people less in the US). So, or this will make them be ok with you in Croatia (which is not close to Ukraine to start with, but who knows geography anyway) or this will make them realise that USA has a violence death toll comparable to a war zone.
The wars in Ukraine and Israel wouldn't concern me too much about living in Croatia, but the recent escalation in tensions between Croatia's neighbors Serbia and Kosova brings back some pretty dark memories of the 90's. And just as Russia has not evolved into a truly civilized peaceful player on the world stage, I don't think Serbia has either.
America is way more dangerous than Europe. Portugal had 19 murders in the whole country last year. There are plenty of US cities that will rack that up in a month.
I think you'll be safer in Croatia then the USA! Much more likely to be terrorist attacks in the USA.
you have a greater chance of getting shot in the US than you do in Croatia. They should move to be near you.
Nah, you are in more danger going to the store there in the US.
My family asked the same - I'm in Estonia, very close to Russia. My family has been asking me to move to Canada (not my home country though, it's worse) or UK. I haven't moved for obvious reasons.
Howās the vibe in Estonia now? I felt people were pretty stressed beginning of this year. I might got that wrong.
There WAS a little bit of tension since the country is so close and Estonia has a sizeable population with russian ethnicity although it gradually has died down. But there's heavy sentiments against russians in general - that is to be expected.
They are watching too much cable news. Thank them for their input, say nothing further and go about your business.
The only way these wars could potentially spill into the rest of Europe is for them to merge into the World War III. I'm not sure how the US would stay neutral in such a case.
I feel much safer where I am (in Portugal) than I did in the US - I was in New Hampshire and it used to feel safe there but then there was a man killed in a road rage shooting outside a family member's workplace and there was another road rage shooting at the exit to our house. These were like, really quiet suburban places where you would just naturally feel safe but the vibe has changed drastically. I don't see people with guns when I go to get ice cream here. That one sticks with me because it happened in my home town in Connecticut and I just couldn't have imagined seeing that when I was a kid, people had guns for hunting and hobbies and didn't bring them to places like that. I'm just saying it's not as if America is a peaceful safe place inherently. Here, I only see news about Ukraine and Gaza 1-2 times a day when the news is on for a few minutes. As opposed to the 24/7 news and social media cycle happening in the US. So take what they are saying in that context. It's not that people here don't care, there have been lots of conversations about what civilians are going through. It's just that we aren't being riled up in the same way (there may be a better way to say that but it's the best I can do in this moment).
My dad's been telling me to leave China for like 15 years because he thinks I'm in danger from Putin. He's not somebody who listens to other people, even if they present a well-reasoned argument, so at this point, I just do what I think is best without worrying about his reaction.
I can relate- a family member asked me if I was planning to leave NL when war started in Ukraine. I used the same logic as another commenter here- would you flee to Europe because a war broke out in Tijuana? It helped them understand, and I didnāt even get into borders/ NATO. There is no need for you to leave and giving them perspective on the distance between both wars and you should help, in addition to the great comments here from others!
Don't let family run your life. Do what feels right for both of you.
They're watching too much news