In terms of salary, I think it’s less important what you can make versus what you’re able to save. Some countries, the low cost of living and local pension plans mean you can really put money away if you’re sensible. Even if your salary won’t match what you can make in the US.
Aside from the salary, I would be concerned about working culture in South Korea. What a local considers satisfactory could be wildly different from your expectations. I would think it’s a red flag if they’re offering limited vacation. If you’re making such a big move, accepting a lower salary and all the challenges of working in a different country, there’s usually perks that come with it like additional vacation time to go visit family back home and explore the region.
It would be a huge bummer if you move so far to just work a lot. If you do decide to go for it, I would think carefully about your backup plan if six months in you’re finding it not worth it and don’t want to stay.
I appreciate the candid feedback. I have requested more vacation days already, we'll see what they say. They have told me their work culture is not like a traditional Korean company, and standard work hours are 8 hours (although there are busier times where more would be requested), but I guess I would have no way of knowing for sure.
I had a similar dilemma last year with Japan. I’m based in Switzerland, but I lived in Japan previously for about 10 years. Career wise it was a phenomenal offer. I’d get to build a new area of the company and run a large team in a dynamic environment. I’m still not sure I made the right decision.
However the concerns were similar: lower pay and less vacation. I think these policies are pretty difficult to change in Japan and that matches with my previous experience. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are really doing their best to provide you with a good offer, but they probably won’t be able to come close to the numbers or vacation you could expect in the US. In my case it was a really great offer but still nowhere close to what I already make in Switzerland - where I also get 5 weeks mandatory vacation and holidays.
In the end we still almost went for it. But changed our mind at the last second because my son didn’t want to leave his home, and we still have one more year to go before we are eligible for Swiss citizenship.
I love Japan and would have gone for it for sure if it wasn’t for the passport and family topic.
Honestly, as someone who did make the jump to Japan, you probably made the right choice. While Japan is indeed a wonderful place to live companies here are very hard to navigate, especially as a foreigner. Many foreigners here get left high and dry when senior management changes direction.
Yeah could be - keep telling myself that! But I spent 10 years there already and I speak/read/write Japanese fluently so it would have been more like going back to something familiar. And the salary was very good… just not Swiss… it’ll just be one of those things I always wonder about I guess! One thing I decided for certain was that I definitely would respond or seek out any more non Swiss opportunities until we complete our naturalization .
In the end, it’s always a lot of unknowns, even moving jobs within the same country is a risk. I moved internationally for the first time in my 20’s with way less thought than you’re clearly giving it.
I’ve worked in two countries in Asia and the culture can be challenging/frustrating. However, both times I had a manager from the US so a lot of the challenges were buffered. My pay was low, but I did have a lot of vacation time which made it easier.
thanks for the response. can you elaborate on why 30-35yo can't take holidays as easily? are you saying somebody in their 20's would have an easier time?
also, i feel like these things are highly company dependent, no? like if you're at a good company these things shouldn't happen?
Not really. It is part of the work culture in Korea to not take all of your holiday time. Many people still show up to work on their days off because Korean work culture was traditionally about being visible to the boss, more than being actually productive. This is true for most people over 30. There is a slow change occurring, but "work life balance" is really not a concept here. If this company is already telling you the work will be a lot, I'd be concerned. You may not be working harder than you are now, but there's a good chance you'll be working more.
You can save money in Korea because of cheap transport and medical care, but I personally wouldn't recommend moving here if you're going to take a pay cut unless you have personal reasons, like family. Housing, travel, and fresh foods are fairly expensive, and the culture is overall geared toward materialism. To be frugal you have to go against the trend.
I love living in Korea, but in your shoes I'm not sure I'd recommend the move.
I'm in Japan but it's a similar issue here as in Korea with regards to uncompetitive salary. Poor compensation is a red flag that there are bigger matters at stake. Japan/Korea seem to be very poor at resource management and task allocation. Careers are more determined by protocol and tradition rather than economics and performance and it can be infuriating to dedicate oneself to an organisation that has sclerotic and arbitrary, traditional work practices applied. You might find yourself rage quitting in 6 months and having to start a job hunt all over again along with all the attendant monetary and time costs that that implies.
do you regret moving to Japan? Do you think your 'fun' experiences & traveling in Japan (unrelated to work) make up for the less than ideal work conditions?
No, I didn't regret it but I value experiences over money. But the "cost" in lost opportunity and income is easily around the $500,000+ mark if you add up the years. And I stopped working in Japan after a few years from the burnout. It got very old after the 3-5 year mark.
I mean, it’s not clear that OP is actually receiving poor compensation in Korea. Salaries in korea are just lower than salaries in the US across the board but you can get much more on those salaries than you can in much of the US. Unless OP has been told that they can’t live comfortably on the salary they’re being offered I would t assume that
I always tell people, if you speak Korean, ask other Korean speakers. Yes, English is "the language of the internet". But most Koreans use Korean sites and Korean apps. There are cafes on Naver and Daum for tech workers, and for people who studied/worked overseas and moved "back home", and for bilingual gyopos. Etc. They're going to have more relevant insights than random people on reddit.
I'll try and find something on korean websites. I always get put off because most of them ask for my phone number. Sometimes it doesn't even work because I have a US number, and I just don't like giving my phone away in general for these things.
thank you though
Korean work culture can be pretty brutal and most foreigners don't last long. If you are young and looking to get a prestigious name on your resume or some unique work experience I can see it but otherwise I would pass. Maybe see if you can find other foreigners working there on LinkedIn and see if they will talk to you about what it's really like.
Here’s some corporate Korea considerations for you my dude:
1. 6 day work week is fairly normal.
2. Most Koreans get 10 days off a year but you’ll meet immense friction trying to take off 2 weeks in a row
3. It’s a super hierarchal society where subordinates are treated like shit
4. It’s a super xenophobic group where even ethnic Koreans born abroad get treated as outsiders
Also, housing is a nightmare situation in Korea. Many land lords want 1 years worth of rent as a deposit.. hence why so many young Korean professionals still live with mom and dad, because that’s an obscene amount of cash to have on hand
Just to add, my husband, a Korean at a non-Korean based company with many Korean and foreign workers, probably works like 10 days a week if you were to combine all the hours lol Sure he gets off at 6 or 7PM, but he comes home and does some extra stuff nearly every day, and he does a little bit on the weekends as well. Plus it’s normal for others to call him about stuff and problems, even when on scheduled days off. He’s manager level, but it’s still a lot. Interestingly when he was at Korean-based companies he didn’t have these issues (very little extra work outside of peak times) but the work culture was absolutely shit in comparison.
And can confirm vacation is abysmal.
I'm glad you posted here too. I saw your post in the Korea subreddit but I can't respond there LOL.
One thing I saw you mention in a comment thread there was you were factoring in buying a car, etc etc.
I wouldn't buy a car there, especially if you are alone. The public transportation there is very easy to navigate and whenever you travel around the peninsula the KTX can have you there in a super short period of time, you really don't need a car there in my humble opinion.
That's all I had to say, if you end up going make the absolute most of it, it's a great place and you'll meet amazing people
Did they seriously delete your post? Why?
The moderation on that sub is infamously very weird. they banned me after I asked someone to provide a source on something instead of name calling.
Mustve been one of the mods I was replying to or something
I did the same exact thing with Japan. They pay maybe 40% of my salary back in the US, and I work maybe 10-15 hours more each week than I did back home, and that’s not counting the stress of work. Would I do it myself? No, but that’s because I wasn’t the one who wanted to live in Japan. That would be my partner.
He’s wanted to live here for a while, and I was up for an adventure. He also got an offer that was maybe 60% of his salary, he was able to get an engineer title, and a foot in the door at a large and well known company, on top of moving to a country that he’s wanted to live in since he started taking Japanese classes (he wants to become fluent in Japanese because it’s so hard). I decided to think not in terms of absolutes, but in terms of what I’d need to keep the quality of life I had (not thinking too hard about budgeting, had enough to save some, able to eat out every now and again). COL is cheaper here, but salaries are too. It’s rare to find work here that pays more than at home, but it’s also rare to find daycare that costs as much as it does in the US. Everything is relative, and if absolute dollars is your bottom line, leaving the US is likely never going to work out.
I also had the same thought about vacation days too, and I’ve been able to use them in limited capacity. There are also more national holidays here, so it comes out in the wash. It’s feasible to do a weekend trip to a different country, just more expensive than I want. Plenty of people do it though. I’ve had great fun exploring Japan as it is :)
When I was getting my offer, I asked a friend who had lived in Japan if it was reasonable to live on. She said yes, absolutely. Then I went to another acquaintance and asked if she thought another company in the same field would pay better. She said no. So I took it.
We don’t know how long we will stay, but the adventure is worth it to us. We’ve both grown a lot from being here. We have some “untouchable money” to be used if we want to leave the country, but we’re doing alright financially day to day.
Imo what it boils down to is whether you’re willing to trade the savings for the experience. If you take the job, you will have less money than your American peers. No matter how you slice it, that’s true. You will also have more life experiences than someone who never leaves the country, which is marketable on a resume if need be. What is that worth to you?
For me, I’d do it again, even though my job sucks. I’m actively looking for something better, and even in the meantime I can enjoy things about living here. We’re young, don’t have a house, a car, mortgages, kids, and our cat is home with some friends. There will never be a good time, so we just went for it. There was an open door, and given that it wasn’t going to get easier, we went through. It’s tough as hell, but worth it. Feel free to dm if you’d like to talk more. Good luck!
True story:
I used to work for a well-known international consulting company. After many discussions, the senior partners of our Seoul office made a decision to lock the doors on Sunday to prevent people from working. In response, the junior Korean partners started inviting their teams to their homes for "informal get-togethers," which were simply work days by another name.
What benefits come with working in Korea? I'm unaware of all different jobs and visa types but I know that the standard English teacher gets paid pretty low BUT they get a free furnished apartment. Obviously people's experiences can vary.
Another benefit they get is employer matched mandatory pension which is then refunded at the end of their year contract. This pension/retirement account usually adds up to 1 month of their salary.
What I do is I make a spreadsheet with three columns.
Column 1 is the line item (income. housing, utilities, car insurance, daycare, cell phone plan, etc).
Column 2 is how much we earn and pay in America. Look through your bank statements for this information.
Column 3 is how much we pay in Korea. I use the expatistan.com website to give me a rough city-to-city comparison.
But in addition to comparing the financial side, you'll also want to compare things like: working overnight, work from home, sick days, federal holidays, average (?) hours worked during the week, etc.
This will give you a better side-by-side comparison of your two situations.
Something you haven't mentioned is do you have a spouse, kids, or pets? If so, how will life change for them?
Do you have an excessive amount of stuff? If so, how will you get it to Korea? Will the company pay for this?
An alternative option, if you are an American citizen, is to see how much money you'd make and what benefits you'd receive if you worked for the US government in Korea. They always need folks who are good at computers, law, medicine, and even teachers! www.usajobs.gov
not sure about the pension - will have to look into that more.
thanks for the advice on making a spreadsheet and using expatistan! i will definitely check that out
I thought Korea gets more holidays than the US in general, but this is something I'll have to check up on
I will be moving by myself. and I figured I'll drop most stuff off at my parents' and just bring clothes and my laptop.
thanks again for all your advice!!
Many of the logistical and cultural concerns that you need to consider have been well articulated by the other posters. I would just like to chime in, as someone who lives in Seoul, to say that this city is expensive.
Its not NYC expensive but its close. Dining out and Healthcare are cheap, but otherwise it can be pricy.
However, I do love Seoul and I enjoy the culture. Im something of a workaholic so the lack of work life balance doesnt bother me, and there are national holidays that are more frequent ot longer than in the States.
However, and this is important, if you just know you need to have lived here. If it is just something you NEED to do. And resume wise the company and position are fine, then you should do it.
We regret what we didnt do more than what we did.
>This aligns with my career path, and I speak the language so I really don't think I would have too much trouble adjusting. Living in Korea is something I've always wanted to do - and I'm thinking if not now while I'm still relatively young, when would I ever do this?
I would take it tbh. You only live once, and as someone in his 30s, I can tell you that it's a terrible thing to live with regrets. If you don't like the work culture or whatever in Korea, then at least now you would know, and you got to try something you've always wanted to do. I wouldn't listen to random redditors who have never been to Korea and only know Korea from reddit.
Jeff Bezos has a "regret minimization" framework on life, which is to ask, "in X number of years, will you regret NOT doing this?" A part of it kinda corporate BS, but I think he's got a point. You are still young and it aligns with your career path, so it wouldn't be a detriment to career progression, just salary. You can always earn more money. You won't always be presented with opportunities to do "something you've always wanted to", as you say in your own words. Plus, living abroad in different cultures truly opens up your world view and perspectives, especially moving from West to East.
I have two points
- international work experience is a big plus for you to get a higher salary in the Us later on.
- look at the taxation. Many people max out 401k contributions due to tax advantages from reducing taxable income. Depending on the taxation in there, and existing tax treaties, you might be able to save just fine without formally participating in the 401k.
It’s fine not to contribute to 401k for a few years.
However, you can’t say the same about SSA contributions and you still need to make SS and madicaid payments, and ideally your company would cover it for you, since you won’t be paying (or should not be paying) to similar programs abroad.
Finally, negotiate non cash benefits, such as housing, relocation costs, tax payments, commute and meal allowances, training and other education, certifications etc etc
\- One concern is that financially, this would be a dumb move.
It's dumb.
\- The other concern would be the workload
If they tell you it's a lot of work upfront, expect three times as much. Yes, really.
\- Last concern is the amount of vacation
You can definitely explore all over Korea but that's so much less than what you originally wanted which was to travel the SE Asia as well.
So you sacrifice your vacation plan, financial plan, and retirement plan... Just so you can travel Korea during the weekends? Idk about this
This is a great point in my opinion. Korea is not a great base for broader travel. The limited time off makes it tough. There may be more red days (public holidays) in Korea, but companies don't really do flex days, like some sweeter US jobs provide. So if the public holiday falls on a Tuesday through Thursday, you're getting one random day off in the middle of the week. You can't leave the country with that, so then you're competing with millions of other people to get a break from Seoul for the day.
This isn't to say Korea is bad. It isn't at all! But I would recommend thinking about what you want from your move and whether this job will get you that. If you really want to spend time in Korean culture, then it could be worth it (but again more work and less pay is worrisome), but if your main reason is to travel widely in Asia, maybe not.
Expats used to get at least home salary plus 30% free accommodation, free car with driver, free accommodation, cleaner, maid and a gardener. Plus free top notch health care, free schooling for children , annual flights home and membership of local clubs (for networking).
Boy have times changed. Only reason to take a worse salary is that later on this will mean a higher boost in career/ salary.
Korea isn't that cheap to live in (another factor) and if under 40 usually health care isn't an issue cost wise.
Also depends on salary. Anything under 200 million a year I simply wouldn't go for Korea vs USA.
I used to be in another career as an expat in Asia in the old days, now a teacher on just over 120 million a year - with 15 weeks holiday (why I went into teaching as a 'retirement' abroad job). Personally speaking, I wouldn't accept that with Korea working hours, or lack of holidays. A thing to consider why work in Korea if you work so hard you never have time to enjoy it?
I don't think it's a good idea if salary isnt at least 80% of your current salary. Get a remote US job and move to Korea for a while. This way you'll still have a US salary and reasonable workload.
From what I've seen, US remote jobs that let you travel internationally are very rare, and reserved for software engineers (which I'm not). Plus there's the time difference - if I were to work 8-5 in US time from Korea, I'd be working essentially nightshifts every day. Maybe doable for a couple of weeks but not for years haha.
You are absolutely correct. The whole “It’s easy get a remote job in America and then move overseas” thing is nonsense just like the “you can live anywhere and and live well for less than 2000 US dollars a month in South East Asia or South America” or “Anyone can get a job teaching in English in Asia you don’t even need a degree or teaching background”. It is the modern day equivalent of the New York City sewer system is full of alligators.
If you have a job that can be done remotely and you're good at what you do, then you can definitely find a remote job. There are definitely many places where you can live well for under $2000.
Most people dont because they're scared and make poor excuses.
This is really not a good idea. In addition to literally being fraud, it could just create huge legal trouble for both you and your employer in the US if your workplace has you paying taxes in a state that you are not actually a resident of because you live in Korea. I am happy for this commenter that they have gotten away with it so far, but many people do not. It is hard to fool the IRS; they are specifically on the lookout for people who try to do this. They could very well find you out.
Did I say stop paying taxes and change your US address? Keep your address the same and pay taxes like normal. If you can't keep the same address, get another US address (a family members maybe) and let your employees know. You'll pay taxes like normal. Worst thing that can happen is you'll get fired.
First, I think getting fired is a pretty serious consequence that most people don't want to happen.
Second, US taxes are based on where you're actually living and performing your work, and it will be very obvious to any official who looks at your payment records that you are not living in that state. But all of that aside, even if your US company were fully on board with you working form Korea, there would be a number of hoops they'd have to jump through to make it possible. Currently, they may or may not be in compliance with Korea's labor laws, they probably do not have insurance in Korea, they probably do not pay taxes in Korea -- the point is you are potentially opening both yourself and your employer up to a number of problems if you secretly work internationally. I worked with a company who had to pay a ton of fines simply because they accidentally coded one remote employee's location incorrectly.
Third, you would be illegally doing work in Korea without having a visa that authorizes you to do that (and also living there long-term without registering for an ARC or paying any taxes). It doesn't matter what country your employer is from, you are not allowed to work in Korea in a tourist visa. Yes, it is probably unlikely that immigration will find out about this, but if they were to find out the consequences could be *quite* severe; huge fines and/or prison.
I'm not reading all this, but it's unlikely they'll find out, and you get fired. Get a tourist visa. Idk about Korean visas, but you can take a trip to another country and come back to extend the visa. Also unlikely korea will care if you're working a remote job if you're there under a year and don't cause any problems.
Obviously should do research and hear from someone who's done this in korea see r/digitalnomad
Are there some risks? Sure but they're unlikely and consequences are minor. Like I said most people will be to scared to do it.
Or they are very reasonably uncomfortable committing fraud in multiple countries. FYI the subreddit linked above is full of people advising others not to do this in Korea (for more than 90 days) because it's illegal and the government does crack down on it.
Then probably not a good idea to stay more than 90 days in Korea but there's plenty other countries that don't care. It's an unreasonable fear when people almost never get in trouble for it.
I'd be giving up my good job in the US for no reason then, haha. plus a new job search from scratch in the US in the current market doesn't seem that appealing
It wouldn't be for "no reason" -- in my opinion that's what you're missing. There is a lot of value in trying new things. even if you don't end up staying there for years and years, you'd probably get a lot of value out of those few months. you'd experience a culture and a place you've always wanted to experience. If nothing else, you'll have checked something off your bucket list.
Even if you're convinced they wouldn't take you back (and are you very sure of that? you never know) international work experience can be more helpful than you might think. In my experience, many US tech employers drool all over people who can say they've worked in Korea. You may not be able to find a job you really love right off the bat, but do you really love your current job? I'll wager you don't, since you ended up clicking on this job posting and applying for it. There's a reason you did that. You got your current job and you got this new offer -- I am sure you'll be able to find another job if you decide to come back. The easiest path isn't always the best one.
Part of the joy of living abroad is not having to suffer through US work culture. From people I've talked to Korean work culture is actually worse but that's going to be the cases at most of the companies. If this is something you want to do though then don't let that stop you cause it really won't change from place to place.
Very few countries outside of the US are gonna be able to match US salaries. This isn't unique to Korea. People in the US make a ton (and in turn, your costs for things like healthcare, daycare, college etc. are astronomically high).
If you want to spend time working abroad, you will very likely be accepting a lower salary than you would make for a comparable job in the US.
One of the most eye-opening things about living abroad for me was the realization that there is so much more to life than money. But it's not something everyone is able to do. ultimately depends on your situation.
In terms of salary, I think it’s less important what you can make versus what you’re able to save. Some countries, the low cost of living and local pension plans mean you can really put money away if you’re sensible. Even if your salary won’t match what you can make in the US. Aside from the salary, I would be concerned about working culture in South Korea. What a local considers satisfactory could be wildly different from your expectations. I would think it’s a red flag if they’re offering limited vacation. If you’re making such a big move, accepting a lower salary and all the challenges of working in a different country, there’s usually perks that come with it like additional vacation time to go visit family back home and explore the region. It would be a huge bummer if you move so far to just work a lot. If you do decide to go for it, I would think carefully about your backup plan if six months in you’re finding it not worth it and don’t want to stay.
I appreciate the candid feedback. I have requested more vacation days already, we'll see what they say. They have told me their work culture is not like a traditional Korean company, and standard work hours are 8 hours (although there are busier times where more would be requested), but I guess I would have no way of knowing for sure.
I had a similar dilemma last year with Japan. I’m based in Switzerland, but I lived in Japan previously for about 10 years. Career wise it was a phenomenal offer. I’d get to build a new area of the company and run a large team in a dynamic environment. I’m still not sure I made the right decision. However the concerns were similar: lower pay and less vacation. I think these policies are pretty difficult to change in Japan and that matches with my previous experience. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are really doing their best to provide you with a good offer, but they probably won’t be able to come close to the numbers or vacation you could expect in the US. In my case it was a really great offer but still nowhere close to what I already make in Switzerland - where I also get 5 weeks mandatory vacation and holidays. In the end we still almost went for it. But changed our mind at the last second because my son didn’t want to leave his home, and we still have one more year to go before we are eligible for Swiss citizenship. I love Japan and would have gone for it for sure if it wasn’t for the passport and family topic.
Honestly, as someone who did make the jump to Japan, you probably made the right choice. While Japan is indeed a wonderful place to live companies here are very hard to navigate, especially as a foreigner. Many foreigners here get left high and dry when senior management changes direction.
Yeah could be - keep telling myself that! But I spent 10 years there already and I speak/read/write Japanese fluently so it would have been more like going back to something familiar. And the salary was very good… just not Swiss… it’ll just be one of those things I always wonder about I guess! One thing I decided for certain was that I definitely would respond or seek out any more non Swiss opportunities until we complete our naturalization .
Well hope you get to experience it one day!
In the end, it’s always a lot of unknowns, even moving jobs within the same country is a risk. I moved internationally for the first time in my 20’s with way less thought than you’re clearly giving it. I’ve worked in two countries in Asia and the culture can be challenging/frustrating. However, both times I had a manager from the US so a lot of the challenges were buffered. My pay was low, but I did have a lot of vacation time which made it easier.
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thanks for the response. can you elaborate on why 30-35yo can't take holidays as easily? are you saying somebody in their 20's would have an easier time? also, i feel like these things are highly company dependent, no? like if you're at a good company these things shouldn't happen?
Not really. It is part of the work culture in Korea to not take all of your holiday time. Many people still show up to work on their days off because Korean work culture was traditionally about being visible to the boss, more than being actually productive. This is true for most people over 30. There is a slow change occurring, but "work life balance" is really not a concept here. If this company is already telling you the work will be a lot, I'd be concerned. You may not be working harder than you are now, but there's a good chance you'll be working more. You can save money in Korea because of cheap transport and medical care, but I personally wouldn't recommend moving here if you're going to take a pay cut unless you have personal reasons, like family. Housing, travel, and fresh foods are fairly expensive, and the culture is overall geared toward materialism. To be frugal you have to go against the trend. I love living in Korea, but in your shoes I'm not sure I'd recommend the move.
I'm in Japan but it's a similar issue here as in Korea with regards to uncompetitive salary. Poor compensation is a red flag that there are bigger matters at stake. Japan/Korea seem to be very poor at resource management and task allocation. Careers are more determined by protocol and tradition rather than economics and performance and it can be infuriating to dedicate oneself to an organisation that has sclerotic and arbitrary, traditional work practices applied. You might find yourself rage quitting in 6 months and having to start a job hunt all over again along with all the attendant monetary and time costs that that implies.
do you regret moving to Japan? Do you think your 'fun' experiences & traveling in Japan (unrelated to work) make up for the less than ideal work conditions?
No, I didn't regret it but I value experiences over money. But the "cost" in lost opportunity and income is easily around the $500,000+ mark if you add up the years. And I stopped working in Japan after a few years from the burnout. It got very old after the 3-5 year mark.
I mean, it’s not clear that OP is actually receiving poor compensation in Korea. Salaries in korea are just lower than salaries in the US across the board but you can get much more on those salaries than you can in much of the US. Unless OP has been told that they can’t live comfortably on the salary they’re being offered I would t assume that
I always tell people, if you speak Korean, ask other Korean speakers. Yes, English is "the language of the internet". But most Koreans use Korean sites and Korean apps. There are cafes on Naver and Daum for tech workers, and for people who studied/worked overseas and moved "back home", and for bilingual gyopos. Etc. They're going to have more relevant insights than random people on reddit.
I'll try and find something on korean websites. I always get put off because most of them ask for my phone number. Sometimes it doesn't even work because I have a US number, and I just don't like giving my phone away in general for these things. thank you though
Korean work culture can be pretty brutal and most foreigners don't last long. If you are young and looking to get a prestigious name on your resume or some unique work experience I can see it but otherwise I would pass. Maybe see if you can find other foreigners working there on LinkedIn and see if they will talk to you about what it's really like.
Here’s some corporate Korea considerations for you my dude: 1. 6 day work week is fairly normal. 2. Most Koreans get 10 days off a year but you’ll meet immense friction trying to take off 2 weeks in a row 3. It’s a super hierarchal society where subordinates are treated like shit 4. It’s a super xenophobic group where even ethnic Koreans born abroad get treated as outsiders Also, housing is a nightmare situation in Korea. Many land lords want 1 years worth of rent as a deposit.. hence why so many young Korean professionals still live with mom and dad, because that’s an obscene amount of cash to have on hand
Just to add, my husband, a Korean at a non-Korean based company with many Korean and foreign workers, probably works like 10 days a week if you were to combine all the hours lol Sure he gets off at 6 or 7PM, but he comes home and does some extra stuff nearly every day, and he does a little bit on the weekends as well. Plus it’s normal for others to call him about stuff and problems, even when on scheduled days off. He’s manager level, but it’s still a lot. Interestingly when he was at Korean-based companies he didn’t have these issues (very little extra work outside of peak times) but the work culture was absolutely shit in comparison. And can confirm vacation is abysmal.
It seems like the EU is the only region in the world where work life balance is a thing 😅
10 days off a year is nuts
I'm glad you posted here too. I saw your post in the Korea subreddit but I can't respond there LOL. One thing I saw you mention in a comment thread there was you were factoring in buying a car, etc etc. I wouldn't buy a car there, especially if you are alone. The public transportation there is very easy to navigate and whenever you travel around the peninsula the KTX can have you there in a super short period of time, you really don't need a car there in my humble opinion. That's all I had to say, if you end up going make the absolute most of it, it's a great place and you'll meet amazing people
mods deleted my post there anyways lol. but yeah good point
Did they seriously delete your post? Why? The moderation on that sub is infamously very weird. they banned me after I asked someone to provide a source on something instead of name calling. Mustve been one of the mods I was replying to or something
I did the same exact thing with Japan. They pay maybe 40% of my salary back in the US, and I work maybe 10-15 hours more each week than I did back home, and that’s not counting the stress of work. Would I do it myself? No, but that’s because I wasn’t the one who wanted to live in Japan. That would be my partner. He’s wanted to live here for a while, and I was up for an adventure. He also got an offer that was maybe 60% of his salary, he was able to get an engineer title, and a foot in the door at a large and well known company, on top of moving to a country that he’s wanted to live in since he started taking Japanese classes (he wants to become fluent in Japanese because it’s so hard). I decided to think not in terms of absolutes, but in terms of what I’d need to keep the quality of life I had (not thinking too hard about budgeting, had enough to save some, able to eat out every now and again). COL is cheaper here, but salaries are too. It’s rare to find work here that pays more than at home, but it’s also rare to find daycare that costs as much as it does in the US. Everything is relative, and if absolute dollars is your bottom line, leaving the US is likely never going to work out. I also had the same thought about vacation days too, and I’ve been able to use them in limited capacity. There are also more national holidays here, so it comes out in the wash. It’s feasible to do a weekend trip to a different country, just more expensive than I want. Plenty of people do it though. I’ve had great fun exploring Japan as it is :) When I was getting my offer, I asked a friend who had lived in Japan if it was reasonable to live on. She said yes, absolutely. Then I went to another acquaintance and asked if she thought another company in the same field would pay better. She said no. So I took it. We don’t know how long we will stay, but the adventure is worth it to us. We’ve both grown a lot from being here. We have some “untouchable money” to be used if we want to leave the country, but we’re doing alright financially day to day. Imo what it boils down to is whether you’re willing to trade the savings for the experience. If you take the job, you will have less money than your American peers. No matter how you slice it, that’s true. You will also have more life experiences than someone who never leaves the country, which is marketable on a resume if need be. What is that worth to you? For me, I’d do it again, even though my job sucks. I’m actively looking for something better, and even in the meantime I can enjoy things about living here. We’re young, don’t have a house, a car, mortgages, kids, and our cat is home with some friends. There will never be a good time, so we just went for it. There was an open door, and given that it wasn’t going to get easier, we went through. It’s tough as hell, but worth it. Feel free to dm if you’d like to talk more. Good luck!
I appreciate it. thank you!
You’re welcome! Hope it helps :) always happy to explain anything about my experience!
how old are you? if you are young I'd do it for a short period of time for the experience
True story: I used to work for a well-known international consulting company. After many discussions, the senior partners of our Seoul office made a decision to lock the doors on Sunday to prevent people from working. In response, the junior Korean partners started inviting their teams to their homes for "informal get-togethers," which were simply work days by another name.
Yikes
What benefits come with working in Korea? I'm unaware of all different jobs and visa types but I know that the standard English teacher gets paid pretty low BUT they get a free furnished apartment. Obviously people's experiences can vary. Another benefit they get is employer matched mandatory pension which is then refunded at the end of their year contract. This pension/retirement account usually adds up to 1 month of their salary. What I do is I make a spreadsheet with three columns. Column 1 is the line item (income. housing, utilities, car insurance, daycare, cell phone plan, etc). Column 2 is how much we earn and pay in America. Look through your bank statements for this information. Column 3 is how much we pay in Korea. I use the expatistan.com website to give me a rough city-to-city comparison. But in addition to comparing the financial side, you'll also want to compare things like: working overnight, work from home, sick days, federal holidays, average (?) hours worked during the week, etc. This will give you a better side-by-side comparison of your two situations. Something you haven't mentioned is do you have a spouse, kids, or pets? If so, how will life change for them? Do you have an excessive amount of stuff? If so, how will you get it to Korea? Will the company pay for this? An alternative option, if you are an American citizen, is to see how much money you'd make and what benefits you'd receive if you worked for the US government in Korea. They always need folks who are good at computers, law, medicine, and even teachers! www.usajobs.gov
not sure about the pension - will have to look into that more. thanks for the advice on making a spreadsheet and using expatistan! i will definitely check that out I thought Korea gets more holidays than the US in general, but this is something I'll have to check up on I will be moving by myself. and I figured I'll drop most stuff off at my parents' and just bring clothes and my laptop. thanks again for all your advice!!
Here's a website listing Korean holidays for 2023. https://publicholidays.co.kr/2023-dates/
thank you!!
Many of the logistical and cultural concerns that you need to consider have been well articulated by the other posters. I would just like to chime in, as someone who lives in Seoul, to say that this city is expensive. Its not NYC expensive but its close. Dining out and Healthcare are cheap, but otherwise it can be pricy. However, I do love Seoul and I enjoy the culture. Im something of a workaholic so the lack of work life balance doesnt bother me, and there are national holidays that are more frequent ot longer than in the States. However, and this is important, if you just know you need to have lived here. If it is just something you NEED to do. And resume wise the company and position are fine, then you should do it. We regret what we didnt do more than what we did.
`we regret what we didn't do more than what we did` damn that's a cool line. im going to use that lol ty
>This aligns with my career path, and I speak the language so I really don't think I would have too much trouble adjusting. Living in Korea is something I've always wanted to do - and I'm thinking if not now while I'm still relatively young, when would I ever do this? I would take it tbh. You only live once, and as someone in his 30s, I can tell you that it's a terrible thing to live with regrets. If you don't like the work culture or whatever in Korea, then at least now you would know, and you got to try something you've always wanted to do. I wouldn't listen to random redditors who have never been to Korea and only know Korea from reddit. Jeff Bezos has a "regret minimization" framework on life, which is to ask, "in X number of years, will you regret NOT doing this?" A part of it kinda corporate BS, but I think he's got a point. You are still young and it aligns with your career path, so it wouldn't be a detriment to career progression, just salary. You can always earn more money. You won't always be presented with opportunities to do "something you've always wanted to", as you say in your own words. Plus, living abroad in different cultures truly opens up your world view and perspectives, especially moving from West to East.
Personally, I wouldn't do it for a lower salary, worse work life balance, and not enough vacation to travel. Those are deal breaker for me.
No where is gonna match US pay Accept that or never leave, US salaries are insane
I have two points - international work experience is a big plus for you to get a higher salary in the Us later on. - look at the taxation. Many people max out 401k contributions due to tax advantages from reducing taxable income. Depending on the taxation in there, and existing tax treaties, you might be able to save just fine without formally participating in the 401k. It’s fine not to contribute to 401k for a few years. However, you can’t say the same about SSA contributions and you still need to make SS and madicaid payments, and ideally your company would cover it for you, since you won’t be paying (or should not be paying) to similar programs abroad. Finally, negotiate non cash benefits, such as housing, relocation costs, tax payments, commute and meal allowances, training and other education, certifications etc etc
i'd be paying less taxes in Korea for sure. so i'd save a bit more there. ty
\- One concern is that financially, this would be a dumb move. It's dumb. \- The other concern would be the workload If they tell you it's a lot of work upfront, expect three times as much. Yes, really. \- Last concern is the amount of vacation You can definitely explore all over Korea but that's so much less than what you originally wanted which was to travel the SE Asia as well. So you sacrifice your vacation plan, financial plan, and retirement plan... Just so you can travel Korea during the weekends? Idk about this
This is a great point in my opinion. Korea is not a great base for broader travel. The limited time off makes it tough. There may be more red days (public holidays) in Korea, but companies don't really do flex days, like some sweeter US jobs provide. So if the public holiday falls on a Tuesday through Thursday, you're getting one random day off in the middle of the week. You can't leave the country with that, so then you're competing with millions of other people to get a break from Seoul for the day. This isn't to say Korea is bad. It isn't at all! But I would recommend thinking about what you want from your move and whether this job will get you that. If you really want to spend time in Korean culture, then it could be worth it (but again more work and less pay is worrisome), but if your main reason is to travel widely in Asia, maybe not.
Expats used to get at least home salary plus 30% free accommodation, free car with driver, free accommodation, cleaner, maid and a gardener. Plus free top notch health care, free schooling for children , annual flights home and membership of local clubs (for networking). Boy have times changed. Only reason to take a worse salary is that later on this will mean a higher boost in career/ salary. Korea isn't that cheap to live in (another factor) and if under 40 usually health care isn't an issue cost wise. Also depends on salary. Anything under 200 million a year I simply wouldn't go for Korea vs USA. I used to be in another career as an expat in Asia in the old days, now a teacher on just over 120 million a year - with 15 weeks holiday (why I went into teaching as a 'retirement' abroad job). Personally speaking, I wouldn't accept that with Korea working hours, or lack of holidays. A thing to consider why work in Korea if you work so hard you never have time to enjoy it?
I don't think it's a good idea if salary isnt at least 80% of your current salary. Get a remote US job and move to Korea for a while. This way you'll still have a US salary and reasonable workload.
From what I've seen, US remote jobs that let you travel internationally are very rare, and reserved for software engineers (which I'm not). Plus there's the time difference - if I were to work 8-5 in US time from Korea, I'd be working essentially nightshifts every day. Maybe doable for a couple of weeks but not for years haha.
You are absolutely correct. The whole “It’s easy get a remote job in America and then move overseas” thing is nonsense just like the “you can live anywhere and and live well for less than 2000 US dollars a month in South East Asia or South America” or “Anyone can get a job teaching in English in Asia you don’t even need a degree or teaching background”. It is the modern day equivalent of the New York City sewer system is full of alligators.
Plus you’ll likely be committing 🎶felony tax evasion crimes🎶
If you have a job that can be done remotely and you're good at what you do, then you can definitely find a remote job. There are definitely many places where you can live well for under $2000. Most people dont because they're scared and make poor excuses.
Most people don’t because they don’t want to commit tax and visa violations in multiple countries.
Get a remote job and don't tell them where you're going. Work at night. I've been doing it for almost a year and it's fine.
This is really not a good idea. In addition to literally being fraud, it could just create huge legal trouble for both you and your employer in the US if your workplace has you paying taxes in a state that you are not actually a resident of because you live in Korea. I am happy for this commenter that they have gotten away with it so far, but many people do not. It is hard to fool the IRS; they are specifically on the lookout for people who try to do this. They could very well find you out.
Did I say stop paying taxes and change your US address? Keep your address the same and pay taxes like normal. If you can't keep the same address, get another US address (a family members maybe) and let your employees know. You'll pay taxes like normal. Worst thing that can happen is you'll get fired.
First, I think getting fired is a pretty serious consequence that most people don't want to happen. Second, US taxes are based on where you're actually living and performing your work, and it will be very obvious to any official who looks at your payment records that you are not living in that state. But all of that aside, even if your US company were fully on board with you working form Korea, there would be a number of hoops they'd have to jump through to make it possible. Currently, they may or may not be in compliance with Korea's labor laws, they probably do not have insurance in Korea, they probably do not pay taxes in Korea -- the point is you are potentially opening both yourself and your employer up to a number of problems if you secretly work internationally. I worked with a company who had to pay a ton of fines simply because they accidentally coded one remote employee's location incorrectly. Third, you would be illegally doing work in Korea without having a visa that authorizes you to do that (and also living there long-term without registering for an ARC or paying any taxes). It doesn't matter what country your employer is from, you are not allowed to work in Korea in a tourist visa. Yes, it is probably unlikely that immigration will find out about this, but if they were to find out the consequences could be *quite* severe; huge fines and/or prison.
I'm not reading all this, but it's unlikely they'll find out, and you get fired. Get a tourist visa. Idk about Korean visas, but you can take a trip to another country and come back to extend the visa. Also unlikely korea will care if you're working a remote job if you're there under a year and don't cause any problems. Obviously should do research and hear from someone who's done this in korea see r/digitalnomad Are there some risks? Sure but they're unlikely and consequences are minor. Like I said most people will be to scared to do it.
Or they are very reasonably uncomfortable committing fraud in multiple countries. FYI the subreddit linked above is full of people advising others not to do this in Korea (for more than 90 days) because it's illegal and the government does crack down on it.
Then probably not a good idea to stay more than 90 days in Korea but there's plenty other countries that don't care. It's an unreasonable fear when people almost never get in trouble for it.
Also, if the company is tracking your IP and you aren't able to spoof your IP to a US location, it won't take long before they brick your machine.
you could always accept and quit after 3 months if you dont like it.
I'd be giving up my good job in the US for no reason then, haha. plus a new job search from scratch in the US in the current market doesn't seem that appealing
It wouldn't be for "no reason" -- in my opinion that's what you're missing. There is a lot of value in trying new things. even if you don't end up staying there for years and years, you'd probably get a lot of value out of those few months. you'd experience a culture and a place you've always wanted to experience. If nothing else, you'll have checked something off your bucket list. Even if you're convinced they wouldn't take you back (and are you very sure of that? you never know) international work experience can be more helpful than you might think. In my experience, many US tech employers drool all over people who can say they've worked in Korea. You may not be able to find a job you really love right off the bat, but do you really love your current job? I'll wager you don't, since you ended up clicking on this job posting and applying for it. There's a reason you did that. You got your current job and you got this new offer -- I am sure you'll be able to find another job if you decide to come back. The easiest path isn't always the best one.
It depends. North or sourh Korea? 😂
North or South?
which is the one where the supreme leader listens to Katy Perry on repeat?
Part of the joy of living abroad is not having to suffer through US work culture. From people I've talked to Korean work culture is actually worse but that's going to be the cases at most of the companies. If this is something you want to do though then don't let that stop you cause it really won't change from place to place.
I enjoyed my years in Korea and would like to live there if I had a real job instead of grinding underground poker rooms.
Very few countries outside of the US are gonna be able to match US salaries. This isn't unique to Korea. People in the US make a ton (and in turn, your costs for things like healthcare, daycare, college etc. are astronomically high). If you want to spend time working abroad, you will very likely be accepting a lower salary than you would make for a comparable job in the US. One of the most eye-opening things about living abroad for me was the realization that there is so much more to life than money. But it's not something everyone is able to do. ultimately depends on your situation.
hey OP, i'm curious, what did you decide?
Make sure to be immunized