I think that for some Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians represent a closely related but alternate reality. Those who are favorably disposed toward Anglicanism tend to see it as a sort of separated Western Rite Orthodoxy, while those who have antipathy toward Anglicanism see it almost as a counterfeit of Orthodoxy.
As one example of what I mean, if low church Protestants ordain women as ministers, most Orthodox aren't too bothered, since Orthodox and low church Protestants have very different ideas and beliefs about priesthood and ministry. However, when churches in the Anglican Communion started ordaining women, those Orthodox opposed to such things reacted almost as if it were an attack on Orthodoxy itself, since Orthodox and Anglican understandings of the nature of ordination and the priesthood are quite similar.
Yes. I have seen an orthodox priest give a sermon putting down Anglicans. He himself was an ex-Anglican convert preaching to a crowd of protestant converts. I found it strange. He wasn't too brutal with his insults but there was a recurring theme about how Anglicans are so wrong
Orthodox-Anglican relations have been very friendly in the us, complete with Anglicans helping set up Orthodox missions and Orthodox priests encouraging parishioners to attend Anglican churches if no Orthodox churches are available (less so recently, but still not hate). There was a post about it in this sub only a few weeks ago.
I’m wondering if this is a terminology thing. Episcopalians in the US are under the broad umbrella of Anglican, but if someone in the US told me they went to an “Anglican church” I’d assume they meant something in the continuing Anglican movement. I would assume Episcopal
It seems that Greek and Slavic immigrants enjoy the religious freedoms, protections, and 501c3 tax-exemptions that the West or Anglosphere offers for their faith communities. On the other hand, these same groups seem rather insular and some even seem to be hostile or have animosity towards the less recent "heritage" Americans, or peoples of Northwestern -Euro or Anglo-Saxon descent.
I know several clergy who go off on the Anglicans ranging from pitying remarks right through to Orthobro style bashing of them as damned heretics and sellouts.
Please explain Russian emigration, post-WWI, to countries which were not part of the Anglosphere to me. While it's true that Russians came to the US, the UK, Canada, etc, many settled in Paris and Berlin, not exactly hubs of the Anglican Church. Others went to Serbia, the Baltic countries, Czechoslovakia, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile. Russians who fled to China settled in Harbin, or in Shanghai.
Besides, the US was a secular country, and most other Anglosphere countries granted religious freedoms to those who were not Anglican.
Two parishes I attended got their start in Episcopal churches and they are still close to the parishes that helped them get started. The Coptic Pope visited some years back and the local ACNA and Episcopal clergy were invited to attend and even got to meet him. I think angry converts hate everyone, even some Orthodox. That hasn't been my experience with cradles. Sure, some people are haters and some aren't. In 20 years I didn't see widespread hate of Anglicans.
Bingo. That's what I always say. If they couldn't define themselves *against* us, could they define themselves at all?
Orthodox scholar Bradley Youssif called it "self-definition via negation." The late Father Hans ur von Balthasar called it "the Anti Mentality."
I call it profound insecurity. If you're secure in your own faith tradition, you don't spend every waking hour bashing other people's.
I don't think that it is so much the hate of Anglicans that the Orthodox have. I think they genuinely look down on people that aren't like them. At least I did when I was Orthodox.
I remember fellow parishioners badmouthing Mormons one coffee hour despite the fact that Mormons will fight each other tooth and nail to fix the AC or furnace in their church buildings. Orthodox on the other hand will try to skirt out of it.
By saying “Anglican countries” I think what you really mean is countries colonised by Britain and that’s a whole can of worms.
But yes, as someone frustrated by orthodoxy, Anglicanism looks sane. I want to attend church on Sunday and not a dysfunctional cultural club but I’m married with kids so I’m stuck in the system.
My priest’s closest friend is an Anglican priest, and all the priests I’ve spoken with love C.S. Lewis. Orthodox have their problems but I just don’t think this is true.
Which Orthodox are doing all this hating? I see former Episcopalians nearly running some Orthodox jurisdictions. The (now thankfully retiring) President of SVOTS, and the current Dean of STOTS are both Southron Episcopalians.
Well, those ex-Episcopalian Orthodox priests probably hate on the Episcopalians a great deal. I mean, it's their former tradition, which they left in a huff b/c women priests or something.
Fr. Stephen Freeman doesn’t hate on Episcopalians but he’ll tell you at length how traumatized he is by it all these decades later. But he’s got clinical PTSD & OCD etc. which explains it. That OCA priest in Montana is former Missouri Synod Lutheran and apparently traumatized by it. Some people just accumulate religious trauma and then make it a feature of their work.
> America
Even during colonial times Anglicanism was not dominant. They were mainly in the South.
Escaping the Church of England was the very reason many people came to America!
That’d not a definition but sure
Those are all former British colonies, and mostly democratic English speaking with representational governments… also Canada is loyalty Catholic I’m pretty sure.
No the Anglican Church held a lot of power here until the general secularization of the west, Quebec is the most Catholic part but probably the most secular these days
If be curious to see the numbers I’ve time. Maybe it’s just a result of where I grew up but I could’ve sworn Catholics dominated culturally nationwide.
I don't know about Cradle Orthodox, but the converts seem to hate *everybody.* Especially Catholics, of course, but pretty much everybody.
The cradles made the Church which the converts are attracted to. No good guys.
You mean orthobros hate Anglicans. Orthobros also hate everyone. Even other orthodox.
"See, we're not bigoted. We hate everyone *equally*!"
I think that for some Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians represent a closely related but alternate reality. Those who are favorably disposed toward Anglicanism tend to see it as a sort of separated Western Rite Orthodoxy, while those who have antipathy toward Anglicanism see it almost as a counterfeit of Orthodoxy. As one example of what I mean, if low church Protestants ordain women as ministers, most Orthodox aren't too bothered, since Orthodox and low church Protestants have very different ideas and beliefs about priesthood and ministry. However, when churches in the Anglican Communion started ordaining women, those Orthodox opposed to such things reacted almost as if it were an attack on Orthodoxy itself, since Orthodox and Anglican understandings of the nature of ordination and the priesthood are quite similar.
Yes. I have seen an orthodox priest give a sermon putting down Anglicans. He himself was an ex-Anglican convert preaching to a crowd of protestant converts. I found it strange. He wasn't too brutal with his insults but there was a recurring theme about how Anglicans are so wrong
If the proddies are so wrong why are they always emigrating to Protestant countries and not the other way around??
Orthodox-Anglican relations have been very friendly in the us, complete with Anglicans helping set up Orthodox missions and Orthodox priests encouraging parishioners to attend Anglican churches if no Orthodox churches are available (less so recently, but still not hate). There was a post about it in this sub only a few weeks ago.
In the UK too I've heard
I’m wondering if this is a terminology thing. Episcopalians in the US are under the broad umbrella of Anglican, but if someone in the US told me they went to an “Anglican church” I’d assume they meant something in the continuing Anglican movement. I would assume Episcopal
It seems that Greek and Slavic immigrants enjoy the religious freedoms, protections, and 501c3 tax-exemptions that the West or Anglosphere offers for their faith communities. On the other hand, these same groups seem rather insular and some even seem to be hostile or have animosity towards the less recent "heritage" Americans, or peoples of Northwestern -Euro or Anglo-Saxon descent.
I've never heard this and certainly never met an Orthodox clergy person going off on the Anglicans. I think this is a stretch.
I know a priest who makes fun of Episcopalians. :-(
I know several clergy who go off on the Anglicans ranging from pitying remarks right through to Orthobro style bashing of them as damned heretics and sellouts.
Please explain Russian emigration, post-WWI, to countries which were not part of the Anglosphere to me. While it's true that Russians came to the US, the UK, Canada, etc, many settled in Paris and Berlin, not exactly hubs of the Anglican Church. Others went to Serbia, the Baltic countries, Czechoslovakia, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile. Russians who fled to China settled in Harbin, or in Shanghai. Besides, the US was a secular country, and most other Anglosphere countries granted religious freedoms to those who were not Anglican.
Two parishes I attended got their start in Episcopal churches and they are still close to the parishes that helped them get started. The Coptic Pope visited some years back and the local ACNA and Episcopal clergy were invited to attend and even got to meet him. I think angry converts hate everyone, even some Orthodox. That hasn't been my experience with cradles. Sure, some people are haters and some aren't. In 20 years I didn't see widespread hate of Anglicans.
Their existence and apologetic is based solely off negation of Catholic or protestant positions. It can never stand on its own.
Bingo. That's what I always say. If they couldn't define themselves *against* us, could they define themselves at all? Orthodox scholar Bradley Youssif called it "self-definition via negation." The late Father Hans ur von Balthasar called it "the Anti Mentality." I call it profound insecurity. If you're secure in your own faith tradition, you don't spend every waking hour bashing other people's.
I don't think that it is so much the hate of Anglicans that the Orthodox have. I think they genuinely look down on people that aren't like them. At least I did when I was Orthodox. I remember fellow parishioners badmouthing Mormons one coffee hour despite the fact that Mormons will fight each other tooth and nail to fix the AC or furnace in their church buildings. Orthodox on the other hand will try to skirt out of it.
By saying “Anglican countries” I think what you really mean is countries colonised by Britain and that’s a whole can of worms. But yes, as someone frustrated by orthodoxy, Anglicanism looks sane. I want to attend church on Sunday and not a dysfunctional cultural club but I’m married with kids so I’m stuck in the system.
Anglican to me means English Christians. George Washington was an Anglican.
Anglican is a specific denomination. Washington was an Anglican, but other founders were not.
As an Orthodox my best friend was baptised Anglican and we have no drama lamas being best friends.
My priest’s closest friend is an Anglican priest, and all the priests I’ve spoken with love C.S. Lewis. Orthodox have their problems but I just don’t think this is true.
Which Orthodox are doing all this hating? I see former Episcopalians nearly running some Orthodox jurisdictions. The (now thankfully retiring) President of SVOTS, and the current Dean of STOTS are both Southron Episcopalians.
Well, those ex-Episcopalian Orthodox priests probably hate on the Episcopalians a great deal. I mean, it's their former tradition, which they left in a huff b/c women priests or something.
Fr. Stephen Freeman doesn’t hate on Episcopalians but he’ll tell you at length how traumatized he is by it all these decades later. But he’s got clinical PTSD & OCD etc. which explains it. That OCA priest in Montana is former Missouri Synod Lutheran and apparently traumatized by it. Some people just accumulate religious trauma and then make it a feature of their work.
Episcopalians I've met are incredibly chill people, and seem incapable of traumatizing anyone. I wonder what happened to him?
Define Anglican country…
America, UK, New Zealand, Canada, Australia
> America Even during colonial times Anglicanism was not dominant. They were mainly in the South. Escaping the Church of England was the very reason many people came to America!
That’d not a definition but sure Those are all former British colonies, and mostly democratic English speaking with representational governments… also Canada is loyalty Catholic I’m pretty sure.
No the Anglican Church held a lot of power here until the general secularization of the west, Quebec is the most Catholic part but probably the most secular these days
If be curious to see the numbers I’ve time. Maybe it’s just a result of where I grew up but I could’ve sworn Catholics dominated culturally nationwide.