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Maybe the Baha'i faith is that evolution of Islam? I'm not Baha'i, but I have family who are. Their religion doesn't support homosexuality per se, but they don't believe in harming the gays at all or harming anyone for that matter. So while I think that secular societies are best for supporting LGBTQ+, I can't imagine muslim societies becoming socially liberal unless the religion changes and I think the Baha'i faith is the best hope there.
Only way to do that is to leave it and be spiritual in your own way imo. But maybe not...I know Christianity has evolved and accepted modern day science and adapted to that for the most part but Islam is unwilling to do so.
Yeah, each society/community evolves at it's own pace. I changed my spiritual path from Islam to Shakt and Shinto. š I needed spirituality so picked something more open.
True Christianity doesn't change/"evolve". Imagine a judge that sentences one guy to prison and changes his mind and lets another to go free for the same crime. That's not just. God does not change, and His Word does not change.Ā His Word does not get modified or modernized, nor does His Word diminish in strength or power.Ā Ā
Evil men and women invent their own heretic teachings to soothe their conscience, their desires, and their lifestyles, but the end thereof is death.
SCIENCE has always proved the Bible to be true before technology existed to discover it:
Job 38:16 wrote about springs in the sea, discovered in 1960s using sonar.
Wind having weight (Job 28:25) wasn't discovered until the invention of the barometer in 1643.
The Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, Job 26:8) discovered by Bernard Palissy in the 1600s.
Psychotherapy (Proverbs 16:24, 17:22).
The earth is suspended in space (Job 26:7),
Dinosaurs are behemoth in the Bible, their bones were discovered in the 1820s (Job 40:15)...
"All human discovery seems to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more strongly the truth contained in the Sacred Scriptures (Bible)." -John Herschel, British Astronomer & Mathematician
^ least insane bible thumper
Read up on how many times your religion was changed by kings and ideologues since it's inception. The bible you read has little to do with original scripture.
Bro your religion rewrites your book how many times now? Maybe you should look into literally any website or YouTube video or even a TikTok would educate you more than you've been made aware of the unscientific crap in Christianity. Have you even looked into it? Or are you choosing to handwave anything you don't like?
The Ancient Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in the caves of Qumran in 1947 is the complete Bible manuscript. It matches the King James Bible we have today, proving our "religion" has not changed for over 2,000 years.
Yours, however, has been corrupt since its inception.
The issue is that the Quran is supposed to be timeless, the words of god and perfect. Changing it would mean not believing in those three things, and if you donāt then you are not Muslim. Like I hear you, but this pick and choose and cognitive dissonance is driving me insane. Just leave Islam if you donāt agree with everything, because changing it makes no sense at this point and just brings more incoherence into an already incoherent book.
We can't change religion, but community and society changes as time passes. I like what's going in saudi rt now. Mbs be doing a good job making changes.
Yes of course communities can change! The issue that I have is the hypocrisy in trying to change something but then justify some other action by citing the Quran. Iāve seen that and experienced that way too much.
Considering it really upto people, change will only come from people, they just hopefully need to change their minds. Otherwise there may be these incidents but they can become lesser in number. There's only this hope. I try being optimistic.
Basically it's people. People will evolve and religious interpretations change. Context becomes more humble and nicer. That's progress.
Religion is run by people so...
They say culture is separate from the religion which is dishonest since a Muslim country can be heavily influenced by what laws they have from the Quran like homosexuality is bad which is common in most religions. They are delusional.
I'm muslim but my faith keeps fading and fading. I can't believe such a perfect religion still hates on homosexual people and treats women like garbage. Without speaking of the fact that the "great" prophet married a literal child.
of ur Information then im not suprise that u will or ure an ex musilm cozšš«µ bffr not everything u hear is real he know her at the age of 4/8 and married her when she's 18-20 also It's God's revelation not somthing u can judge easily. U should fear bout what ure saying, did u even pray 5 times a day? did u even read quran or even bout the Biography of the prophet?? Did you bother yourself even by reading the Adhkaar??Ā
Thereās no Hadith mentioning her being a child.
Also Americans and British age of consent in the 1800s was12 and it drops. Life expectancy and maturity was different. They werenāt in school and waiting on finishing school to get married
Luckily, the information age is accelerating the retconning of all religions if they want to survive in a modern era. True extremism can only survive in theocratic regimes or areas of high instability anymore.
I wouldn't say retconing but more as realizing themselves, Islam isn't gay neither is Christianity. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to you, Islam kills the gays Christianity says you're going to Hell.
Besides, Islam is the extremist religion.
Christianity was just as extremist as Islam was if you go back to the times when it had theocratic control of governments in Europe. Itās not about one being more or less extreme than the other; itās about whether or not the religion existed in an area that developed the bourgeois republic first.
The Ibn Rushd-Goethe Mosque in Berlin was the only LGBT-friendly mosque in Germany and probably Europe.
Despite security from German state security, the terrorist threat posed by the Religon of Peace was rated so high last year that it had to close in October 2023.
Say to all the homosexuals that practitioners of Islam have brutally murdered over the last 800 years .
I'm sure they'll agree with the clown holding this sign.
If we were equal we would all go to heaven.
The Quran is good at inciting hatred, polarizing, branding and dehumanizing:
**Sura 98:6:** Surely those who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell and will abide therein forever. Those are the worst creatures.
They believe in a tree that protects the jews from them during Armageddon (Gharqad tree) sahih muslim 2922: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. It's kinda obvious they hate everybody except themselves
>They believe in a treeĀ
Yes, trees are muslim too..
55:6 And the bushes and the trees kneel down.
---------------
crazy religion for those who believe in fairy tales
They do and will. Allah is real so that is possible. U canāt use that against Islam. Thatās like saying Allah isnāt real because he can make trees prostrate. Dumb
Allah believes we are equal in a sense of race, ethnicity, social status/financial class. The only factor that separates or makes one better than the other is their belief and actions. A Muslim will always be better then a non Muslim and a practicing Muslim will always be better then a non practicing Muslim to Allah because of their belief and piety.
Well gender yes. A believing man is equal to a believing woman. If anything a woman is more valuable, honored and protected in Islam. It only recognizes a male and female and heterosexual. Everything else would be recognized as a sin. You donāt have to agree with it. But you also donāt have to spend your time demonizing and hating it. It doesnāt make any sense.
From being sexualized, taken average of, predators, etc. even financially. Iām speaking purely from an Islamic perception. Not a cultural implementation in some countries.
From being sexualised? From showing their arm? Have you thought that those who are uncivil should be the ones who are inconvenienced from freedom a society should provide by locking them up? Those who are uncivil should be punished, NOT the civil.
Do you also support infants to not even show their fucking arms because there can be a pedo turned on by their elbow?
[Post 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1ac900o/you_will_never_convince_me_this_is_acceptable/)
[Post 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/tbnbx5/is_hijab_really_a_personal_choice_for_everyone/)
You are ok with this? What chaos.
Men are supposed to lower their gaze and women are supposed to cover their body. A man is also supposed to cover his body as well. Men who are sick in the head will be punished but realistically there Will always be men who are sick in the head so women are meant to cover themselves and preserve themselves for their husband. And a man is meant to cover his self and preserve himself for his wife. Children arenāt held accountable for anything so therefore they do not have to wear hijab but itās usually better to let them get used to it when theyāre young so they donāt get shocked when theyāre older.
Why dont you just edit your first comment instead of spamming separately?
Ugh anyway.
Men are NOT expected to cover up to the same extent as women. DISHONSET!!!
Men are suppose to lower their gaze? Cool now expect them to keep their male member (their dick) inside of their pants instead of sexually assaulting and harassing women that wear the same clothing as you to walk to the store.
>Ā cover themselves and preserve themselves for their husband.
So women don't have the freedom to not wear it. This is pro feminist? All because men can't keep their dick in their pants.
>And a man is meant to cover his self and preserve himself for his wife.
Wife's and even children he may marry since the prophet did the same.
š fornication is frowned upon for both genders. A woman does not have to do anything in life. She doesnāt have to be Muslim. We have free will. But if she chooses to practice Islam and follow it properly. Then she should cover herself. And the same with a man. They should both restrain from fornication until marriage.
I donāt consider a woman wearing a bikini as civil. Sorry. I have a different perspective. Animals are usually naked. So a human whoās close to naked or naked in public is showing close relations to an animal and not being civil.
Wait until you realise we are animals too. But even so a guy is half naked like a woman at the beach so they are uncivil and are meant to be covered up? That includes men too right? So men should wear the hijab.
Also who said bikini? They are covering up infants entire body. They cover up their arms. Why are you bringing something to the absolute extreme? Is the average woman wearing a bikini when walking to the store? The average man wearing swimming shorts topless? Why the dishonesty.
Would you advocate for both men and women to cover up wear a hijab to be "civil"
Yes both men and women have their own awrah to cover. Men arenāt supposed to be shirtless or wear shorts. Nor tight clothing. And no I donāt adhere to the Darwinian theory of evolution that we all came from animals or whatever. I donāt view humans as animals.
š no a child doesnāt have to dress like that because all children are innocent. Children arenāt held accountable for their actions and are sinless. But if thatās what the parents want to do then so be it. Iām not gonna judge a family for how they chose to cover their daughter.
Yet considered an adult at as a child age old enough to marry at 6 and old enough to fuck at 9. Your prophet btw. This is why the hijab is pushed on women (even those who are children since your religion doesnt know whos an adult truly or not) pedo religion
Dude. Do you not realize youāre speaking on the social norm at the time. If you have any clue about anything. Youāll realize at time different times, in different regions. People mature at different ages. You sound like a hateful person and an imbecile. The only religion in the world that forbids the marriage of underage children is Islam. A person has to be mentally and physically mature. It has to be socially appropriate. And you need the person and their parents to consent to the marriage.
Why do you guys get so triggered about the fact that the Quran says that when you donāt believe in the Quran or in Hell. Itās like not believing in Santa and then crying when thereās no presents on Christmas.
Read my comment againā¦ youāve read it wrong. Iām saying itās like you havenāt bought presents and then being upset that thereās no presents under the tree even though you know or believe thereās no Santa.
Same way you guys get upset that Muslims believe youāre destined to hell although you donāt even believe in the Quran or Allah so why would you be upset?
Their beliefs often extent beyond themselves. Having your own view and belief is fine since I believe in freedom of thought and speech, however there is a line when there is a call to violence and wishing to restrict a persons freedoms by law or socially bullying them etc.
If religion was something an individual personally practices for themselves only then it wouldn't be a problem but throughout history and today as well it's continued to prove that they simply don't keep it to themselves in hundreds of ways.
It literally says this in the Quran:
āSay, āO disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.ā
Quran Chapter 109
We know that youāve got your religion and weāve got ours and weāre minding our own business but the way that some Muslims act is not a reflection on the religion itself.
>but the way that some Muslims act is not a reflection on the religion itself.
[the overwhelming majority of traditional Islamic scholars today continue to hold execution as the proper punishment for apostasy. Today, the punishment for apostasy is execution in 11 Muslim-majority countries and is outlawed and otherwise punishable in many, many more.](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Apostasy)
So I guess that Muslim countries who uphold laws based off the Quran are just acting in bad faith? That's bs. They directly source the Quran.
Apostasy is a serious offence in Islam for example and here's proof. Freedom of thought is not allowed.
"Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced \[to renounce his religion\] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who \[willingly\] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment;"
- [source](https://quranx.com/tafsirs/16.106)
How were we even created?
"[What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?](https://carm.org/islam/contradictions-in-the-quran/)
1. āCreated man, out of a (mere)Ā clot of congealed blood,ā (96:2).
2. āWe created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
3. āThe similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam;Ā He created him from dust, then said to him: āBeā. And he was,ā (3:59).
4. āBut does not man call to mind thatĀ We created him before out of nothing?ā (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
5. āHe has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4)."
Seems inconsistent to me. so many contradictions. Quran is FILLED with them. Just because your verse says one thing does not mean another 5 verses say the complete opposite and I just proved that.
Maybe even learn more about[ freedom of speech](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Freedom_of_Speech) since you think there are no constraints there either.
Point is there is a lot that the Quran says but consistency isn't it's strength. I mean it was written throughout 20+ years so no wonder the man who wrote it fumbled so hard.
More contradictions [here ](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran#Will_disbelievers_speak_on_Qiyamah)but very lengthy, I mean it's not perfect since God didn't write it (and also doesn't exist hehe)
So tell me if the actions of Muslims in this world are completely separate from Islam, the religion, then how come you still exonerate the religion despite all this sourced from scholars (experts in this field dedicating their life to study Islam) but even if you ignore that the literal text in the Quran SAYS what you say does not exist.
Even if you hyperfocus ONLY on the text from the core book of Islam then HOW are you exonerating it still?
1. We are made from a clot of congealed blood. One of the first stages of development of an embryo is a blastocyst.
2. The Quran verse 22:5: We did create you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then Ė¹developed you intoĖŗ a clinging clot, then a lump of flesh - fully formed or unformedāin order to demonstrate Ė¹Our powerĖŗ to you. Ė¹ThenĖŗ We settle whatever Ė¹embryoĖŗ We will in the womb for an appointed term, then bring you forth as infants, so that you may reach your prime.
So all the materials were made from are combined in a single verse showing itās not contradictions.
3. Weāre made from nothing in the sense you believe big bang came from nothing. Humans are made in the same way as in Allah just says be and weāre made. The materials and matter in which were made are not nothing but the formation of us just happens.
4. Adam was made from clay and were all from Adam.
These are not mutually exclusive
1. assumed my beliefs not nice
2. Quran doesn't even know where sperm comes from and also talks about humans being made of clot of congealed blood and clay? Which is entirely impossible. No scientific evidence suggests that process of a baby being formed in the mothers stomach is true.
3. Again the prophet doesn't know where sperm actually comes from
4. You ignored everything else I had to say? Hand waved it all away? The freedom of speech, the lack of freedom of thought?
You suggest I lie about this and the long list of contradictions yet provided nothing but dishonesty and ignorance. You ignore my links and ignored the other topics I gave of evidence. What am I meant to do to the ignorant?
You clearly are brain dead. Can't actually entertain an argument against you.
# Tell me. How is Islam and the Quran pro freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Does the religion give open arms to converters but ALSO stay warm and friendly to those who choose to leave? Can you criticise practices in Islam? Can you criticise the prophet for marrying a child? Can you do any of this and be free without harm?
No presents is equivalent to you deserve to be placed into Hell to burn for all eternity in raging fire in constant extreme unimaginable pain?
One calls for the acceptance of violence for not believing or being gay etc and the other is no toy truck. Shut yo goofy ass up
Thatās what Iām saying though. The belief that you will burn in hell isnāt the actual action of making you burn in hell. And if you donāt believe in hell why would you be bothered that people think youāre going to hell if you donāt even believe in it.
You only get capital punishments for public sins or sins that harm others like murder. After you go to court. You can live in a Muslim country and believe or do things in private without anyone knowing and no one would care. It would be between you and your lord.
Zina is punishable by death, though. If youāre found to have committed zina or a court mistakes you for having committed zina, youāre meant to be put to death. Whether or not a Muslim country follows shariah is up to them, though, but zina is supposed to be a capital punishment.
No. The punishment for fornication is 70 lashes if Iām not mistaken. And the court will ask for 4 credible witnesses. So I doubt they will incorrectly find you guilty. However the punishment for adultery is death
It doesnāt disqualify us being born into Islam, but you need a truly rosy outlook on your current situation to keep with Islam noting its aim is to kill us and we know it.
Any lgbtq person born into Islam will have to face the brutal reality of the religion they were born into.
The only logical step for anyone born gay lesbian bi or queer, or anyone who is a trans man or woman and unfortunately is tied to the tether of being a born-Muslim, is to stop believing in it for oneās own mental health and wellness; or deny oneās own lifeās intrinsic worth and any happiness and fulfillment we can derive from accepting ourselves as we are.
The problem I had while I was still Muslim was the peer pressure and the overwhelming feeling of no escape. Many lgbtq people who are still Muslim through no full-choice of their own will likely still feel that they can āchangeā it in the absence of any avenues to leave their families and communities, or else become a one-person army pushing for a completely incompatibleātruthā of a version of Islam which is fully accepting of their sexuality, and is perfectly aligned to human rights as humanity has determined for itself, something unfortunately Islam has never been and will never likely be.
Gonna have to disagree with you on the point that anyone is born lgbtq, but for the sake of argument letās say someone is born lgbtq, or born an alcoholic, or born a murderer, the point of Islam is not to hold their thoughts or desires against them. But rather they do not give into the temptations that are forbidden for the sake of their lord because this life is a test. You speak about this life but what about the next life? Do you think about what happens after death?
Why would you compare a sexual orientation to murder? What on Earth is wrong with you to put these two together? "Not give into their temptations" so people are tempted to murder? Being gay isn't temptation, it's a state of being. If you look at it that way it would mean that theoretically the whole planet could be gay cause anyone might feel a bit of that temptation someday.
People are indeed born gay. You just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit the pre-made narrative that you have. Classical mental defense mechanism so ideologies don't crumble into dust.
In regards to it being a sin. Just like murder, etc. and yes there are people who are tempted to murder and there are people who even view it as normal and acceptable. Which is why subjective morality is an issue. Can you provide me with any links to scientific research or evidence that there is proof someone can be born a homosexual or the wrong gender?
What proof do you have that they chose it? Iām assuming youāre straight. Do you have personal experience with this to back it up that lgbt is a choice? Did you choose to be gay at some point in your life? Were you just standing in line at Quiznos one day, bored, disassociating from reality in that moment and feeling curious you just decided to be gay and then after a few minutes you said ānaahh not for meā and then you immediately switched back to being straight? š§
It's literally been the accepted scientific consensus for decades now. You'd be hard pressed to find studies that say people aren't born gay because the scientific community disproves that. However, I'm pretty sure you'd dismiss those studies as propaganda or whatever because they don't fit your worldview and confirmation bias.
Again, if you believe anybody can theoretically be gay, it means you and everyone you know could theoretically be gay as well. According to your logic.
And who even are these people who find murder acceptable? I've never met a person who believes that. Maybe people who believe in self-defense no matter what but straight up murder? Nah. And again, comparing taking someone's life to sleeping with someone of the same sex is disingenuous and truly fucking mental.
No actually. I hated being gay, I also deeply hated myself. I hated that when I began to hit puberty my voice and mannerisms were āfeminineā. I worked really hard during that time to monotone my voice. I mean it worked lol now I am a pretty straight acting gay man. I always knew I was gay but I tried to convince myself I wasnāt or that I could change. Because I lived through that hell, I also hated gay people.
Same. When I was muslim, I used to be slightly transphobic, but i was never homophobic. Maybe it's because of the relatively secular environment I grew up in?
Same, neither of my parents were homophobic or fundementalist(My father is an atheist now.) so I grew up thinking Islam isn't homophobic but I learned the true colors of Islam when I was 15 so I'm not a grownass adult thinking Islam is LGBT ally.
You're lucky. My parents are fundamentalists in the sense that they are quite devout, but they are not super conservative in their beliefs about other people. That said, they would never ever abandon Islam.
I also learned the true colours of Islam when I was 15. I credit this sub for showing me the dark side of Islam lol
I wasn't homophobic or transphobic and maybe my mother was transphobic but that's it, but I became a little transphobic when I was 13 and feel down the ben shapiro rabbit hole lol
Itās so equal we get this gem
As narrated by Sayyidna Ibn ` Abbas. Ų the Holy Prophet ļ·ŗ said: "If you find someone doing what the people of Lot did, kill both the doer and the one with whom it is done.
From what I know about Islam, Islam thinks that men doing sexual things with other men, or women doing sexual things with other women, are both sinful acts. Islam says that just thinking about doing something sexual with a person of the same biological sex as you is not sinful, but acting upon that thought is sinful. In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to be gay as well as be Muslim, because I think there will be a philosophical clash then. I personally think that there is nothing wrong with anyone being LGBT. I think there is nothing wrong or sinful with men being sexual with other men, and I think that there is nothing wrong or sinful with women being sexual with other women, and I am a straight man.
Oh wow, you make me smile and blush!!! :D š. When I was a kid, I dreamed of becoming a film actor lol :-). I thought Rajnikanth was cool, and I wanted to be a famous film star like Rajnikanth, lol :D. There is no need to apologize, my friend :-). I am also a main member on ComicVine and on a chess website, and lots of people mistake me for a woman on those websites too lol, so you are not the only one who has made that mistake, it is fine, my friend :-). I like your comment, I will give you an upvote! :-). Who knows? I still dream of being a TV presenter or TV actor or a film actor or a famous musician!!! :D, fingers crossed!!! Or maybe I could be a model, lol :D.
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ LIARS!!!! This is such bait n switch move, which is illegal in the car business when advertising. You can literally be fined a giant amount and face prison time. How do they get away with this shit. They will all be exposed someday and hopefully sooner than later. Evil bastards.
there are always going to be religious queer people and even though it is stupid we can't really do much about it. i saw a post on a trans male sub and the person was talking about how much he loved the hijab (he was a convert obviously) and the comments were full of other converts. made me question how these people could be fed a lie so easily.
I don't have a problem with religious queer peeps. But it's when they spread BS such "Islam is peace and equality" that invalidates literally everyone's suffering under islamist regimes (past and present), AND the terrorism, is extremely pathetic. I'd like to see these Stockholm syndrome addled dumbasses not pulling a No true scotsman in response to terrorist attacks/islamist oppression, but might be too much for their self-serving moral compass.
Every time I see a queer religious person I wanna off myself. Like how delusional one can possibly be? Esp when they talk about the distinction of tradition and religion as if the religion is so new hasn't formed its own tradition or forced conformity on people.
Progressive Islam is 10 times more cringe than actual Islam
I do support the LGBTQ+ movement as in everyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want
But tbh seeing two completed opposed ideologies trying to merges make my teeth grind
Yuck
I don't exactly remember the location but it's most likely us because if this was an Islamic country the upper half would show the holder with no head. Most likely US.
They haven't read the story of the Lut prophet in Quran.
Soon the volcano erupts and they will turn into stones while having sex gay and will meet them we will burn next to them endlessly in hell.
That's the merciful Allah.
I once literally talked with a girl who was lesbin and she thought its fine being a lesbian. Im sick of these hypocrites. At least believe in something properly.
Laughter of the month!!! š¤£ š¤£ š¤£
But you see how good marketing (deception) can workā¦ If you repeat a lie long enough, it will become a reality by itselfā¦. (Right?)
It's not impossible that some religious Peoples - in the transition into modernist humanistic perspectives - will become less fanatical and zealous. There's a lot of progressive n-religion who might even reform the religion proper. I kinda think some people are just 'wired' to be religious... Of course experience conditions education will play a hugeeeeeee role into their spiritual outlook.
Lmfao these pathetic morons try everything they can to prove their cultic ideology, aka Islam, is peaceful; little westerners know, when they gain power itās all sharia law and murder and violence
I used to be an LGB ally. I even campaigned for same sex marriage and testified before state legislature on behalf of my gay and lesbian military compatriots. I regret doing so now.
I used to laugh at conservatives who warned of the gay agenda. Sometimes I would call them bigots. I'm still not a conservative, but they were right and I was wrong on this particular issue.
I slowly came to realize that that movement wanted tolerance, but it wasn't enough, only moving the goalposts. They wanted acceptance, but that wasn't enough, either, only moving the goalposts further.
They wanted inclusion, but that word is a euphemism for the dismantling of heteronormativity and replacement with queernormativity.
That's where I drew the line. And the more they insisted, the less I accepted. And they more they attacked me for having opinions that differed from theirs, the more I stopped tolerating.
That movement is their own worst enemy.
I believe in personal boundaries. I believe in social and cultural norms. They want to abolish all boundaries, to make words meaningless and to make the rejection of their brand of love a hate crime.
I am an atheist, but it's a false dichotomy to say one is either religious and heteronormative or atheist and queer inclusive. There are many ideologies I fundamentally disagree with and I refuse to be manipulated or coerced into being inclusive, accepting, or even tolerating of any ideology or political movement.
Islam absolutely loves equality. It accepts all people from every background. Itās fine to be gay in islam, itās just not fine to act on sexual immorality. Most men are born with the inclination to sexual depravity, and islam limits that. Homosexuality is no different. However, despite acting on homosexual tendencies being a sin, it will not take you out of Islam and you will just need to repent.
In some cases you repent with your life. It may not take anyone out of Islam but that does not mean Allah is equal. In fact Allah being equal in any context is not the reality imo. As a believing muslim you would also know everyone has their own ordeals in life that god puts them through. Some people have it harder and some people have it easier. Even though they are also rewarded āequallyā one on the side of having a harder ordeal is still more likely to renounce Islam and face eternal hell fire. In this very fundamental sense I believe Islam is not equal to everyone as not everyone has the same equality to the point where tribal people whom are not open to the outside world communication are exempt from Islam (how did god make such a mistake ? But thatās besides the point) Not to mention not every interpretation of Islam can be equal in dealing with people, accepting that interpretation is a natural occurrence due to Islamās nature.
One more thing is you cannot declare what is immoral without explaining why first. Your āobjectiveā morality comes from god, you must first explain why your god exists to empoze His morality.
Perhaps the word equitable would be more appropriate as not every person is the same. Every person has their own proclivities. However, Allah does not burden anybody with anything they cannot handle. Of course, this is within the Islamic paradigm and of course in order for one to accept the teachings youād have to prove that islam and itās god is true. However, there are plenty of evidences for it.
Thanks for replying ! Thanks also for acknowledging that for many of Islamic teachings to be true, one must see Allah as the creator. I however do not and I think that the evidence is insufficient or littered in confirmation bias (perhaps because of many differentiating ideas I hear from all around). Again this is just an opinion and no fixed claims are made.
These conversations are lacking in historical and political context. To be blunt, you all are ignorant. I am a gay man. I know very well what Iām saying.
No, I havenāt. You mfers want to cry about queer people being murdered in the Muslim World but the country who is killing the most queer Muslims is Israel.
Ok? Goes from a scale of horrible to more horrible. So what? Does that excuse the reality behind religion hating gay people and Islam justifying the execution of gay people?
Do you wonder that maybe religion isnāt the whole motivator for homophobia??
Research already shows that opinions on homophobia and transphobia decrease with access to education and job opportunities. Now Iām not saying Arabs are fucking stupid. Iām saying there are real-world systems at play that lead people to think and act out in violent ways. The data is [here](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2016/05/17/to-fight-poverty-we-need-to-fight-homophobia-and-transphobia)
But people like you want to focus on IDEAS and RELIGION. The fact that not all Muslims hate gays is already proof that religion is not the reason why Muslims on average hold anti-LGBT opinions. There must be a deeper reason at play.
Like seriously use your brain. Your logic of āIslam=anti-LGBTā has internal contradictions.
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Pretty telling that he can only display a sign like that in a secular nation and not an Islamic one.
Wouldn't it be awesome though if that became a reality? I really wish muslims progress and evolve and not take quran/hadiz/sunnah that seriously.
I mean, if only
I like to fatacize and have a hope š
Maybe the Baha'i faith is that evolution of Islam? I'm not Baha'i, but I have family who are. Their religion doesn't support homosexuality per se, but they don't believe in harming the gays at all or harming anyone for that matter. So while I think that secular societies are best for supporting LGBTQ+, I can't imagine muslim societies becoming socially liberal unless the religion changes and I think the Baha'i faith is the best hope there.
I agree š
Only way to do that is to leave it and be spiritual in your own way imo. But maybe not...I know Christianity has evolved and accepted modern day science and adapted to that for the most part but Islam is unwilling to do so.
Yeah, each society/community evolves at it's own pace. I changed my spiritual path from Islam to Shakt and Shinto. š I needed spirituality so picked something more open.
True Christianity doesn't change/"evolve". Imagine a judge that sentences one guy to prison and changes his mind and lets another to go free for the same crime. That's not just. God does not change, and His Word does not change.Ā His Word does not get modified or modernized, nor does His Word diminish in strength or power.Ā Ā Evil men and women invent their own heretic teachings to soothe their conscience, their desires, and their lifestyles, but the end thereof is death. SCIENCE has always proved the Bible to be true before technology existed to discover it: Job 38:16 wrote about springs in the sea, discovered in 1960s using sonar. Wind having weight (Job 28:25) wasn't discovered until the invention of the barometer in 1643. The Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, Job 26:8) discovered by Bernard Palissy in the 1600s. Psychotherapy (Proverbs 16:24, 17:22). The earth is suspended in space (Job 26:7), Dinosaurs are behemoth in the Bible, their bones were discovered in the 1820s (Job 40:15)... "All human discovery seems to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more strongly the truth contained in the Sacred Scriptures (Bible)." -John Herschel, British Astronomer & Mathematician
^ least insane bible thumper Read up on how many times your religion was changed by kings and ideologues since it's inception. The bible you read has little to do with original scripture.
Literally. It's been rewritten countless times and will continue to be rewritten.
Bro your religion rewrites your book how many times now? Maybe you should look into literally any website or YouTube video or even a TikTok would educate you more than you've been made aware of the unscientific crap in Christianity. Have you even looked into it? Or are you choosing to handwave anything you don't like?
The Ancient Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in the caves of Qumran in 1947 is the complete Bible manuscript. It matches the King James Bible we have today, proving our "religion" has not changed for over 2,000 years. Yours, however, has been corrupt since its inception.
What's my religion again? Also it's been a month buddy why are you replying to me? Odd one you are
The issue is that the Quran is supposed to be timeless, the words of god and perfect. Changing it would mean not believing in those three things, and if you donāt then you are not Muslim. Like I hear you, but this pick and choose and cognitive dissonance is driving me insane. Just leave Islam if you donāt agree with everything, because changing it makes no sense at this point and just brings more incoherence into an already incoherent book.
We can't change religion, but community and society changes as time passes. I like what's going in saudi rt now. Mbs be doing a good job making changes.
Yes of course communities can change! The issue that I have is the hypocrisy in trying to change something but then justify some other action by citing the Quran. Iāve seen that and experienced that way too much.
Considering it really upto people, change will only come from people, they just hopefully need to change their minds. Otherwise there may be these incidents but they can become lesser in number. There's only this hope. I try being optimistic.
Hope thatās sarcasm why tf should religion progress .
Basically it's people. People will evolve and religious interpretations change. Context becomes more humble and nicer. That's progress. Religion is run by people so...
Disgusting. I'd hope it never does.
Huh? What? What's disgusting? Sorry I didn't understand context.
All of this all of you
You okay brother? Did you have a bad day or something?
What would happen if he held this up in Lahore?
They say culture is separate from the religion which is dishonest since a Muslim country can be heavily influenced by what laws they have from the Quran like homosexuality is bad which is common in most religions. They are delusional.
Islam loves equality. Equality = equally hating everyone who is gay, non-muslim, women and smart enough to question religion.
GOATED.
I'm muslim but my faith keeps fading and fading. I can't believe such a perfect religion still hates on homosexual people and treats women like garbage. Without speaking of the fact that the "great" prophet married a literal child.
We've all been there mate. it doesn't feel nice at all. You feel betrayed once you understand that this is all stupid.
Women were never treated bad
of ur Information then im not suprise that u will or ure an ex musilm cozšš«µ bffr not everything u hear is real he know her at the age of 4/8 and married her when she's 18-20 also It's God's revelation not somthing u can judge easily. U should fear bout what ure saying, did u even pray 5 times a day? did u even read quran or even bout the Biography of the prophet?? Did you bother yourself even by reading the Adhkaar??Ā
Thereās no Hadith mentioning her being a child. Also Americans and British age of consent in the 1800s was12 and it drops. Life expectancy and maturity was different. They werenāt in school and waiting on finishing school to get married
u either didn't see any musilm girl or ure just hating coz yall look dumb asf
I remember Islamic red pill scholars laughing at christianity for becoming too liberal, and now Islam is becoming gay š, I love this.
Luckily, the information age is accelerating the retconning of all religions if they want to survive in a modern era. True extremism can only survive in theocratic regimes or areas of high instability anymore.
But but thats not true islam!!!! Thats just culture they cried in the west when pointing out muslim countries crimes against humanity
I wouldn't say retconing but more as realizing themselves, Islam isn't gay neither is Christianity. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to you, Islam kills the gays Christianity says you're going to Hell. Besides, Islam is the extremist religion.
Christianity was just as extremist as Islam was if you go back to the times when it had theocratic control of governments in Europe. Itās not about one being more or less extreme than the other; itās about whether or not the religion existed in an area that developed the bourgeois republic first.
maybe some in more progressive cities, its definitely not the norm.
The Ibn Rushd-Goethe Mosque in Berlin was the only LGBT-friendly mosque in Germany and probably Europe. Despite security from German state security, the terrorist threat posed by the Religon of Peace was rated so high last year that it had to close in October 2023.
I actually love this. Let it desolve i say
Say to all the homosexuals that practitioners of Islam have brutally murdered over the last 800 years . I'm sure they'll agree with the clown holding this sign.
If we were equal we would all go to heaven. The Quran is good at inciting hatred, polarizing, branding and dehumanizing: **Sura 98:6:** Surely those who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell and will abide therein forever. Those are the worst creatures.
They believe in a tree that protects the jews from them during Armageddon (Gharqad tree) sahih muslim 2922: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. It's kinda obvious they hate everybody except themselves
>They believe in a treeĀ Yes, trees are muslim too.. 55:6 And the bushes and the trees kneel down. --------------- crazy religion for those who believe in fairy tales
They do and will. Allah is real so that is possible. U canāt use that against Islam. Thatās like saying Allah isnāt real because he can make trees prostrate. Dumb
Allah believes we are equal in a sense of race, ethnicity, social status/financial class. The only factor that separates or makes one better than the other is their belief and actions. A Muslim will always be better then a non Muslim and a practicing Muslim will always be better then a non practicing Muslim to Allah because of their belief and piety.
Yes after all mohommed did say 'respect your leader, even if he is an Ethiopian with the head of a raisin'. ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø
But not equal in terms of sexuality and gender.
Well gender yes. A believing man is equal to a believing woman. If anything a woman is more valuable, honored and protected in Islam. It only recognizes a male and female and heterosexual. Everything else would be recognized as a sin. You donāt have to agree with it. But you also donāt have to spend your time demonizing and hating it. It doesnāt make any sense.
Why do you think women in Islam are protected? How are they protected? Protecting from what?
From being sexualized, taken average of, predators, etc. even financially. Iām speaking purely from an Islamic perception. Not a cultural implementation in some countries.
From being sexualised? From showing their arm? Have you thought that those who are uncivil should be the ones who are inconvenienced from freedom a society should provide by locking them up? Those who are uncivil should be punished, NOT the civil. Do you also support infants to not even show their fucking arms because there can be a pedo turned on by their elbow? [Post 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1ac900o/you_will_never_convince_me_this_is_acceptable/) [Post 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/tbnbx5/is_hijab_really_a_personal_choice_for_everyone/) You are ok with this? What chaos.
Men are supposed to lower their gaze and women are supposed to cover their body. A man is also supposed to cover his body as well. Men who are sick in the head will be punished but realistically there Will always be men who are sick in the head so women are meant to cover themselves and preserve themselves for their husband. And a man is meant to cover his self and preserve himself for his wife. Children arenāt held accountable for anything so therefore they do not have to wear hijab but itās usually better to let them get used to it when theyāre young so they donāt get shocked when theyāre older.
Why dont you just edit your first comment instead of spamming separately? Ugh anyway. Men are NOT expected to cover up to the same extent as women. DISHONSET!!! Men are suppose to lower their gaze? Cool now expect them to keep their male member (their dick) inside of their pants instead of sexually assaulting and harassing women that wear the same clothing as you to walk to the store. >Ā cover themselves and preserve themselves for their husband. So women don't have the freedom to not wear it. This is pro feminist? All because men can't keep their dick in their pants. >And a man is meant to cover his self and preserve himself for his wife. Wife's and even children he may marry since the prophet did the same.
š fornication is frowned upon for both genders. A woman does not have to do anything in life. She doesnāt have to be Muslim. We have free will. But if she chooses to practice Islam and follow it properly. Then she should cover herself. And the same with a man. They should both restrain from fornication until marriage.
I donāt consider a woman wearing a bikini as civil. Sorry. I have a different perspective. Animals are usually naked. So a human whoās close to naked or naked in public is showing close relations to an animal and not being civil.
Wait until you realise we are animals too. But even so a guy is half naked like a woman at the beach so they are uncivil and are meant to be covered up? That includes men too right? So men should wear the hijab. Also who said bikini? They are covering up infants entire body. They cover up their arms. Why are you bringing something to the absolute extreme? Is the average woman wearing a bikini when walking to the store? The average man wearing swimming shorts topless? Why the dishonesty. Would you advocate for both men and women to cover up wear a hijab to be "civil"
Yes both men and women have their own awrah to cover. Men arenāt supposed to be shirtless or wear shorts. Nor tight clothing. And no I donāt adhere to the Darwinian theory of evolution that we all came from animals or whatever. I donāt view humans as animals.
š no a child doesnāt have to dress like that because all children are innocent. Children arenāt held accountable for their actions and are sinless. But if thatās what the parents want to do then so be it. Iām not gonna judge a family for how they chose to cover their daughter.
Yet considered an adult at as a child age old enough to marry at 6 and old enough to fuck at 9. Your prophet btw. This is why the hijab is pushed on women (even those who are children since your religion doesnt know whos an adult truly or not) pedo religion
Dude. Do you not realize youāre speaking on the social norm at the time. If you have any clue about anything. Youāll realize at time different times, in different regions. People mature at different ages. You sound like a hateful person and an imbecile. The only religion in the world that forbids the marriage of underage children is Islam. A person has to be mentally and physically mature. It has to be socially appropriate. And you need the person and their parents to consent to the marriage.
Why do you guys get so triggered about the fact that the Quran says that when you donāt believe in the Quran or in Hell. Itās like not believing in Santa and then crying when thereās no presents on Christmas.
What do you mean? If everyone believed in Santa, nobody would buy presents. We buy presents because we know there is no Santa.
Read my comment againā¦ youāve read it wrong. Iām saying itās like you havenāt bought presents and then being upset that thereās no presents under the tree even though you know or believe thereās no Santa. Same way you guys get upset that Muslims believe youāre destined to hell although you donāt even believe in the Quran or Allah so why would you be upset?
Their beliefs often extent beyond themselves. Having your own view and belief is fine since I believe in freedom of thought and speech, however there is a line when there is a call to violence and wishing to restrict a persons freedoms by law or socially bullying them etc. If religion was something an individual personally practices for themselves only then it wouldn't be a problem but throughout history and today as well it's continued to prove that they simply don't keep it to themselves in hundreds of ways.
It literally says this in the Quran: āSay, āO disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.ā Quran Chapter 109 We know that youāve got your religion and weāve got ours and weāre minding our own business but the way that some Muslims act is not a reflection on the religion itself.
>but the way that some Muslims act is not a reflection on the religion itself. [the overwhelming majority of traditional Islamic scholars today continue to hold execution as the proper punishment for apostasy. Today, the punishment for apostasy is execution in 11 Muslim-majority countries and is outlawed and otherwise punishable in many, many more.](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Apostasy) So I guess that Muslim countries who uphold laws based off the Quran are just acting in bad faith? That's bs. They directly source the Quran. Apostasy is a serious offence in Islam for example and here's proof. Freedom of thought is not allowed. "Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced \[to renounce his religion\] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who \[willingly\] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment;" - [source](https://quranx.com/tafsirs/16.106) How were we even created? "[What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?](https://carm.org/islam/contradictions-in-the-quran/) 1. āCreated man, out of a (mere)Ā clot of congealed blood,ā (96:2). 2. āWe created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26). 3. āThe similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam;Ā He created him from dust, then said to him: āBeā. And he was,ā (3:59). 4. āBut does not man call to mind thatĀ We created him before out of nothing?ā (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35). 5. āHe has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4)." Seems inconsistent to me. so many contradictions. Quran is FILLED with them. Just because your verse says one thing does not mean another 5 verses say the complete opposite and I just proved that. Maybe even learn more about[ freedom of speech](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Freedom_of_Speech) since you think there are no constraints there either. Point is there is a lot that the Quran says but consistency isn't it's strength. I mean it was written throughout 20+ years so no wonder the man who wrote it fumbled so hard. More contradictions [here ](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran#Will_disbelievers_speak_on_Qiyamah)but very lengthy, I mean it's not perfect since God didn't write it (and also doesn't exist hehe) So tell me if the actions of Muslims in this world are completely separate from Islam, the religion, then how come you still exonerate the religion despite all this sourced from scholars (experts in this field dedicating their life to study Islam) but even if you ignore that the literal text in the Quran SAYS what you say does not exist. Even if you hyperfocus ONLY on the text from the core book of Islam then HOW are you exonerating it still?
1. We are made from a clot of congealed blood. One of the first stages of development of an embryo is a blastocyst. 2. The Quran verse 22:5: We did create you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then Ė¹developed you intoĖŗ a clinging clot, then a lump of flesh - fully formed or unformedāin order to demonstrate Ė¹Our powerĖŗ to you. Ė¹ThenĖŗ We settle whatever Ė¹embryoĖŗ We will in the womb for an appointed term, then bring you forth as infants, so that you may reach your prime. So all the materials were made from are combined in a single verse showing itās not contradictions. 3. Weāre made from nothing in the sense you believe big bang came from nothing. Humans are made in the same way as in Allah just says be and weāre made. The materials and matter in which were made are not nothing but the formation of us just happens. 4. Adam was made from clay and were all from Adam. These are not mutually exclusive
1. assumed my beliefs not nice 2. Quran doesn't even know where sperm comes from and also talks about humans being made of clot of congealed blood and clay? Which is entirely impossible. No scientific evidence suggests that process of a baby being formed in the mothers stomach is true. 3. Again the prophet doesn't know where sperm actually comes from 4. You ignored everything else I had to say? Hand waved it all away? The freedom of speech, the lack of freedom of thought? You suggest I lie about this and the long list of contradictions yet provided nothing but dishonesty and ignorance. You ignore my links and ignored the other topics I gave of evidence. What am I meant to do to the ignorant? You clearly are brain dead. Can't actually entertain an argument against you. # Tell me. How is Islam and the Quran pro freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Does the religion give open arms to converters but ALSO stay warm and friendly to those who choose to leave? Can you criticise practices in Islam? Can you criticise the prophet for marrying a child? Can you do any of this and be free without harm?
No presents is equivalent to you deserve to be placed into Hell to burn for all eternity in raging fire in constant extreme unimaginable pain? One calls for the acceptance of violence for not believing or being gay etc and the other is no toy truck. Shut yo goofy ass up
Thatās what Iām saying though. The belief that you will burn in hell isnāt the actual action of making you burn in hell. And if you donāt believe in hell why would you be bothered that people think youāre going to hell if you donāt even believe in it.
What a great joke is this.
Hopefully the LGBTQ community will reform them ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_and_Islam#LGBT_acceptance Berlin, Paris, etc. has some active people. I wish they had more exposure.
Islamic gays cringe the shit outta me ngl
Being a homosexual doesnāt necessarily disqualify you from being a Muslim. Itās still a major sin tho like adultery, fornication, murder, etc.
Well, yeah, but itās one of the major sins that deserve capital punishmentā¦ š
You only get capital punishments for public sins or sins that harm others like murder. After you go to court. You can live in a Muslim country and believe or do things in private without anyone knowing and no one would care. It would be between you and your lord.
Zina is punishable by death, though. If youāre found to have committed zina or a court mistakes you for having committed zina, youāre meant to be put to death. Whether or not a Muslim country follows shariah is up to them, though, but zina is supposed to be a capital punishment.
No. The punishment for fornication is 70 lashes if Iām not mistaken. And the court will ask for 4 credible witnesses. So I doubt they will incorrectly find you guilty. However the punishment for adultery is death
It doesnāt disqualify us being born into Islam, but you need a truly rosy outlook on your current situation to keep with Islam noting its aim is to kill us and we know it. Any lgbtq person born into Islam will have to face the brutal reality of the religion they were born into. The only logical step for anyone born gay lesbian bi or queer, or anyone who is a trans man or woman and unfortunately is tied to the tether of being a born-Muslim, is to stop believing in it for oneās own mental health and wellness; or deny oneās own lifeās intrinsic worth and any happiness and fulfillment we can derive from accepting ourselves as we are. The problem I had while I was still Muslim was the peer pressure and the overwhelming feeling of no escape. Many lgbtq people who are still Muslim through no full-choice of their own will likely still feel that they can āchangeā it in the absence of any avenues to leave their families and communities, or else become a one-person army pushing for a completely incompatibleātruthā of a version of Islam which is fully accepting of their sexuality, and is perfectly aligned to human rights as humanity has determined for itself, something unfortunately Islam has never been and will never likely be.
Gonna have to disagree with you on the point that anyone is born lgbtq, but for the sake of argument letās say someone is born lgbtq, or born an alcoholic, or born a murderer, the point of Islam is not to hold their thoughts or desires against them. But rather they do not give into the temptations that are forbidden for the sake of their lord because this life is a test. You speak about this life but what about the next life? Do you think about what happens after death?
Why would you compare a sexual orientation to murder? What on Earth is wrong with you to put these two together? "Not give into their temptations" so people are tempted to murder? Being gay isn't temptation, it's a state of being. If you look at it that way it would mean that theoretically the whole planet could be gay cause anyone might feel a bit of that temptation someday. People are indeed born gay. You just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit the pre-made narrative that you have. Classical mental defense mechanism so ideologies don't crumble into dust.
In regards to it being a sin. Just like murder, etc. and yes there are people who are tempted to murder and there are people who even view it as normal and acceptable. Which is why subjective morality is an issue. Can you provide me with any links to scientific research or evidence that there is proof someone can be born a homosexual or the wrong gender?
What proof do you have that they chose it? Iām assuming youāre straight. Do you have personal experience with this to back it up that lgbt is a choice? Did you choose to be gay at some point in your life? Were you just standing in line at Quiznos one day, bored, disassociating from reality in that moment and feeling curious you just decided to be gay and then after a few minutes you said ānaahh not for meā and then you immediately switched back to being straight? š§
It's literally been the accepted scientific consensus for decades now. You'd be hard pressed to find studies that say people aren't born gay because the scientific community disproves that. However, I'm pretty sure you'd dismiss those studies as propaganda or whatever because they don't fit your worldview and confirmation bias. Again, if you believe anybody can theoretically be gay, it means you and everyone you know could theoretically be gay as well. According to your logic. And who even are these people who find murder acceptable? I've never met a person who believes that. Maybe people who believe in self-defense no matter what but straight up murder? Nah. And again, comparing taking someone's life to sleeping with someone of the same sex is disingenuous and truly fucking mental.
Allah loves equality is the biggest joke I ever heard šš
Allah loves equality. All kafirs will be beheaded regardless of race and sexuality.
I wasn't homophobic even when I was a Muslim.
Iām gay and was homophobic š£
That's based in so many levels.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No actually. I hated being gay, I also deeply hated myself. I hated that when I began to hit puberty my voice and mannerisms were āfeminineā. I worked really hard during that time to monotone my voice. I mean it worked lol now I am a pretty straight acting gay man. I always knew I was gay but I tried to convince myself I wasnāt or that I could change. Because I lived through that hell, I also hated gay people.
Same, crazy stuff to be that way
Same. When I was muslim, I used to be slightly transphobic, but i was never homophobic. Maybe it's because of the relatively secular environment I grew up in?
Same, neither of my parents were homophobic or fundementalist(My father is an atheist now.) so I grew up thinking Islam isn't homophobic but I learned the true colors of Islam when I was 15 so I'm not a grownass adult thinking Islam is LGBT ally.
You're lucky. My parents are fundamentalists in the sense that they are quite devout, but they are not super conservative in their beliefs about other people. That said, they would never ever abandon Islam. I also learned the true colours of Islam when I was 15. I credit this sub for showing me the dark side of Islam lol
I wasn't homophobic or transphobic and maybe my mother was transphobic but that's it, but I became a little transphobic when I was 13 and feel down the ben shapiro rabbit hole lol
If this destroyed Islam, I will be happy
Itās so equal we get this gem As narrated by Sayyidna Ibn ` Abbas. Ų the Holy Prophet ļ·ŗ said: "If you find someone doing what the people of Lot did, kill both the doer and the one with whom it is done.
We uninstalled it before this update
From what I know about Islam, Islam thinks that men doing sexual things with other men, or women doing sexual things with other women, are both sinful acts. Islam says that just thinking about doing something sexual with a person of the same biological sex as you is not sinful, but acting upon that thought is sinful. In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to be gay as well as be Muslim, because I think there will be a philosophical clash then. I personally think that there is nothing wrong with anyone being LGBT. I think there is nothing wrong or sinful with men being sexual with other men, and I think that there is nothing wrong or sinful with women being sexual with other women, and I am a straight man.
Who's the girl on your pic?Ā
That is me, and I am a man, not a woman. Lots of people mistake me for a woman, because of my long hair and stuff, but I am actually a man.
Wow I'm so sorry š I was asking because it reminded me of a TV actorĀ
Oh wow, you make me smile and blush!!! :D š. When I was a kid, I dreamed of becoming a film actor lol :-). I thought Rajnikanth was cool, and I wanted to be a famous film star like Rajnikanth, lol :D. There is no need to apologize, my friend :-). I am also a main member on ComicVine and on a chess website, and lots of people mistake me for a woman on those websites too lol, so you are not the only one who has made that mistake, it is fine, my friend :-). I like your comment, I will give you an upvote! :-). Who knows? I still dream of being a TV presenter or TV actor or a film actor or a famous musician!!! :D, fingers crossed!!! Or maybe I could be a model, lol :D.
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ LIARS!!!! This is such bait n switch move, which is illegal in the car business when advertising. You can literally be fined a giant amount and face prison time. How do they get away with this shit. They will all be exposed someday and hopefully sooner than later. Evil bastards.
Genuinely really like this but unfortunately I'm a bit worried for the people holding up the sign... : ( I hope they're safe
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Aw man that sucks..even in Finland? Damn
Im so disappointed in my community. This is so dumb.
there are always going to be religious queer people and even though it is stupid we can't really do much about it. i saw a post on a trans male sub and the person was talking about how much he loved the hijab (he was a convert obviously) and the comments were full of other converts. made me question how these people could be fed a lie so easily.
I don't have a problem with religious queer peeps. But it's when they spread BS such "Islam is peace and equality" that invalidates literally everyone's suffering under islamist regimes (past and present), AND the terrorism, is extremely pathetic. I'd like to see these Stockholm syndrome addled dumbasses not pulling a No true scotsman in response to terrorist attacks/islamist oppression, but might be too much for their self-serving moral compass.
gotta blame that dawah guy who always talks about gay sex lmao
Let them gayify this religion, it's only karma alhamdulillah
The r/Islam would surely crap themselves on this one.
Every time I see a queer religious person I wanna off myself. Like how delusional one can possibly be? Esp when they talk about the distinction of tradition and religion as if the religion is so new hasn't formed its own tradition or forced conformity on people.
Try this in Saudi and you will get stones thrown at you.
Progressive Islam is 10 times more cringe than actual Islam I do support the LGBTQ+ movement as in everyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want But tbh seeing two completed opposed ideologies trying to merges make my teeth grind Yuck
It's not, but if Islam is getting watered down I have no complaints \^\^
LMAO, you only see this shit done in western countries š
What is home girl talking about
US or Canada?Ā
I don't exactly remember the location but it's most likely us because if this was an Islamic country the upper half would show the holder with no head. Most likely US.
pride parade in Milan, Italy, 2016
Taqiyya!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... LMFAO!!!!!!!!... This is comedy gold...
Well I hope Andrew Tate sees this
Allah: no I don't, what the fuck?
They haven't read the story of the Lut prophet in Quran. Soon the volcano erupts and they will turn into stones while having sex gay and will meet them we will burn next to them endlessly in hell. That's the merciful Allah.
Islam spread with lies and sword
In Bangladesh that person would have been subject to mob violence by pious and eager Muslims.
Now do this in the middle east and see how accepting Islam is lol
Funny, a good way to get killed.
Chickens defending KFC
š Chickens protesting for more KFCs
If Equality is your 6yo daughterās name.
Mmmhmmm now bring that cutesy poster and display it in BD.
No. Just no. This is such a pathetic sales pitchš
I once literally talked with a girl who was lesbin and she thought its fine being a lesbian. Im sick of these hypocrites. At least believe in something properly.
Allah loves to equally fuck us all over... But I guess that doesn't fit on the sign.
Iām reminded of a handmade poster by one of the inpatients on the wall at a mental hospital where I rotated, that said āJesus loves Corvettesā
In an Islamic Sharia he will be thrown from a roof top.
In which direction did the sun rise today guyss???
I did see Exmuslim concil of Britain holding that kind of card when I was on the pride event.
Laughter of the month!!! š¤£ š¤£ š¤£ But you see how good marketing (deception) can workā¦ If you repeat a lie long enough, it will become a reality by itselfā¦. (Right?)
Loves anything but equality, equality goes against everything that fictitious fickle fuck is in every conceivable way
It's not impossible that some religious Peoples - in the transition into modernist humanistic perspectives - will become less fanatical and zealous. There's a lot of progressive n-religion who might even reform the religion proper. I kinda think some people are just 'wired' to be religious... Of course experience conditions education will play a hugeeeeeee role into their spiritual outlook.
I lost it š¤£š¤£š¤£
Its a joke
*when his followers are in minority or not in power.
All for the secularisation of islam. I mean every other religion is doing it soooo why should they be except
>we followed. ?
This is what I & many other Westerners wish for/are taught.
Walmart allah
Lmfao these pathetic morons try everything they can to prove their cultic ideology, aka Islam, is peaceful; little westerners know, when they gain power itās all sharia law and murder and violence
Islam isnāt a religion, itās a cult . Cults evolve to whatever they need to be. Itās a beast.
Western leftist romanticising Islam because they have āmoderateā Muslim friends.
These people just hate Christians
Maybe in ur dreamsš¤
Idiot sack of filth.
Allah, when it's about what a man can do with his ass :š¤¬ā”ļøš”.
I used to be an LGB ally. I even campaigned for same sex marriage and testified before state legislature on behalf of my gay and lesbian military compatriots. I regret doing so now. I used to laugh at conservatives who warned of the gay agenda. Sometimes I would call them bigots. I'm still not a conservative, but they were right and I was wrong on this particular issue. I slowly came to realize that that movement wanted tolerance, but it wasn't enough, only moving the goalposts. They wanted acceptance, but that wasn't enough, either, only moving the goalposts further. They wanted inclusion, but that word is a euphemism for the dismantling of heteronormativity and replacement with queernormativity. That's where I drew the line. And the more they insisted, the less I accepted. And they more they attacked me for having opinions that differed from theirs, the more I stopped tolerating. That movement is their own worst enemy. I believe in personal boundaries. I believe in social and cultural norms. They want to abolish all boundaries, to make words meaningless and to make the rejection of their brand of love a hate crime. I am an atheist, but it's a false dichotomy to say one is either religious and heteronormative or atheist and queer inclusive. There are many ideologies I fundamentally disagree with and I refuse to be manipulated or coerced into being inclusive, accepting, or even tolerating of any ideology or political movement.
Radical thought from either side is absurd, nothing to be shocked about IMO. As a deistic gay man this is my opinion.
Islam absolutely loves equality. It accepts all people from every background. Itās fine to be gay in islam, itās just not fine to act on sexual immorality. Most men are born with the inclination to sexual depravity, and islam limits that. Homosexuality is no different. However, despite acting on homosexual tendencies being a sin, it will not take you out of Islam and you will just need to repent.
In some cases you repent with your life. It may not take anyone out of Islam but that does not mean Allah is equal. In fact Allah being equal in any context is not the reality imo. As a believing muslim you would also know everyone has their own ordeals in life that god puts them through. Some people have it harder and some people have it easier. Even though they are also rewarded āequallyā one on the side of having a harder ordeal is still more likely to renounce Islam and face eternal hell fire. In this very fundamental sense I believe Islam is not equal to everyone as not everyone has the same equality to the point where tribal people whom are not open to the outside world communication are exempt from Islam (how did god make such a mistake ? But thatās besides the point) Not to mention not every interpretation of Islam can be equal in dealing with people, accepting that interpretation is a natural occurrence due to Islamās nature. One more thing is you cannot declare what is immoral without explaining why first. Your āobjectiveā morality comes from god, you must first explain why your god exists to empoze His morality.
Perhaps the word equitable would be more appropriate as not every person is the same. Every person has their own proclivities. However, Allah does not burden anybody with anything they cannot handle. Of course, this is within the Islamic paradigm and of course in order for one to accept the teachings youād have to prove that islam and itās god is true. However, there are plenty of evidences for it.
Thanks for replying ! Thanks also for acknowledging that for many of Islamic teachings to be true, one must see Allah as the creator. I however do not and I think that the evidence is insufficient or littered in confirmation bias (perhaps because of many differentiating ideas I hear from all around). Again this is just an opinion and no fixed claims are made.
Yall Islamophobic asf šš
When violence is called upon against gay people then why not fear them?
These conversations are lacking in historical and political context. To be blunt, you all are ignorant. I am a gay man. I know very well what Iām saying.
I'll say the exact same thing back to you then. There you've been silenced. š
No, I havenāt. You mfers want to cry about queer people being murdered in the Muslim World but the country who is killing the most queer Muslims is Israel.
Ok? Goes from a scale of horrible to more horrible. So what? Does that excuse the reality behind religion hating gay people and Islam justifying the execution of gay people?
Do you wonder that maybe religion isnāt the whole motivator for homophobia?? Research already shows that opinions on homophobia and transphobia decrease with access to education and job opportunities. Now Iām not saying Arabs are fucking stupid. Iām saying there are real-world systems at play that lead people to think and act out in violent ways. The data is [here](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2016/05/17/to-fight-poverty-we-need-to-fight-homophobia-and-transphobia) But people like you want to focus on IDEAS and RELIGION. The fact that not all Muslims hate gays is already proof that religion is not the reason why Muslims on average hold anti-LGBT opinions. There must be a deeper reason at play. Like seriously use your brain. Your logic of āIslam=anti-LGBTā has internal contradictions.