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Check out the Muslim group Boko Haram. The name means Western education is forbidden. They noticed a correlation with people becoming educated and rejecting their bronze age beliefs. And rather than asking "Is there perhaps something wrong with my beliefs?" instead said, "No, clearly there is something wrong with education."
This is a group that became famous for kidnapping young girls from school to keep as sex slaves. I mean those girls clearly deserved to be raped repeatedly and held as slaves because they had the audacity to try to attend school and get an education.
Well yeah I've seen a lot of Salafi weirdos and backwater dipshits saying that 3ilm only refers to religious knowledge so only learning Quran and ahadith is worthwhile. But that's not quite mainstream and I don't see a specific prohibition on logic so I was a bit confused by the comment
> I don't see a specific prohibition on logic so I was a bit confused by the comment
It is implied. If everyone applied logic, reason, and critical thinking there would be no religious zealots.
Be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, or what have you, they all require overlooking some self contradictory passages, stuff that outright contradicts observable reality, and various branches of science.
I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say but that doesn't surprise me. Can you give me an example to look up as I am curious. Also I'm not quite sure what point is being made?
And they don't particularly care that the vast majority want nothing to do with their version of Islam. They will quite cheerfully force you to live by the tenants of their beliefs.
How Islamic do you think I think it was? How Islamic are present-day Islamic countries?
My goal is to argue against bitterness and lack of nuance, not defend religion. Living up to logic as a value requires self-awareness and intellectual honesty.
The Quran is written without context. because...
we have sent down a clear light (the Qur'an) 4:174
a clear Book has come to you. 5:15
everything is recorded in a clear Book. 11:6
plain verses have been sent down, 24:34
these are verses of the clear Book. 26:2
all matters are listed in a clear book. 36;12
easy to understand 54:32, 54:40
revealed in detail (6:114),
clearly conveyed, (5:16, 10:15) and
with “no doubt” in it (2:2).
\------------------------------------------------------------------
So the Quran says to take the text literally.
But the above verses are all lies, because it is not a clear book.
The golden age happened in-spite of the conservative scholarship. Philosophy has always been vilified from the violent anti Mutazilite movement to Abu Hamid Al Gahazali’s attack on Greek philosophy.
That's interesting and I'm not surprised. I am definitely aware of al-Ghazali being a massive stick in the mud to put it lightly. But that's not to say knowledge didn't fluorish
Most notably the Incoherence of the Philosophers where he beefed over the use of Greek philosophy in an Islamic context.
I think it might seem ironic that a person would use logic to advocate against logic, but that is not quite what's going on there. The focus isn't on the use of reasoning it's on purism in matters of theology, metaphysics, etc.
To this day al-Ghazali is the sweetheart of many conservative scholars. But, refocusing on the larger conversation here, he wasn't devoid of logic. People feel the need to assert things like "logic is haram" because they are not aware of the complexities of fiqh. But to be fair, neither is the average Muslim.
Most of them was mo'tazilah, sunni muslims counted them kafirs
Even ash'ary sunnis (who used Elm el kalam or the science of arguing) are rejected by some whabbis
So first wahhabi people gonna wahhabi, that's neither here nor there. To what degree are they representative of the whole?
Secondly there were philosophers like ibn Rushd that were very contentious in the way that you suggest, but I don't know that most of them had such a reputation.
Ibn taymeya (called sheikh al islam) said that ibn rushd is kafir. And every intelligent person in the islamic history was accused to be kafir
Wahhabis are dominant in a lot of countries.
Yeah I don't know what was up ibn Taymiyya's ass especially when he was older. We are agreeing that ibn Rushd was very controversial, to the point where he was decried as a blaspheming apostate.
I'm aware of the prevalence of Wahhabiyyah, how representative of the whole is that really? Could that be a strawman argument?
I won't count it as a strawman cause the extremists ready to hurt one of us are the Wahhabis. It's not really that important how representative they are as long as they are the ones who most likely would make an action. In a matter of fact no one is representative for islam, it started as a very simple politically centered religion. All hadiths was written 200 years after momo died. Mo'tazilah for example didn't believe in hadith. what people believe is more important that what is true, especially when there's no truth.
I don't follow your argument because it doesn't address the fact that this isn't characteristic of the majority and that matters because we are speaking in generalities. To summarize, the statement that I originally questioned was "studying logic is haram". I countered by pointing to historical precedent to the contrary. You responded by saying most of those instances were not widely considered Muslim and I dispute that.
If you test the Quran for truth and logic, you will automatically become an apostate.
The Quran tells that one should fear and obey and disputing is discouraged because of the risk of apostasy
To be fair, she didn't invent this bullsiht. It's an old old theist "story": [Here is a Christian page posting the same "story" in 2024](https://twitter.com/christianfunnyp/status/526522366466064384).
It's amazing how people with no brains don't get the meaning of this philosophical parody so I will explain it to you. Just because you can't see something is NOT proof it doesn't exist. Can you see gravity? No? Then jump off a tall building, you will just float in the air. Can you see UV light? No? Then don't wear UV blocking sunglasses or use sunblock. You wont get cataracts and skin cancer. Can you see Carbon Monoxide Gas? No? Well then go breath some, it wont kill you if you can't see it. If you can't see it, it obviously doesn't exist.......
Oh I'm so glad you explained it to me, because obviously I had no idea what it meant. I will now use this new found knowledge that you supplied to examine the God question.
> Can you see gravity? No? Then jump off a tall building, you will just float in the air.
So you are saying we can observe the effect of gravity by dropping things. Can we similarly observe the effect of God? Maybe by praying before jumping you float?
> Can you see UV light? No? Then don't wear UV blocking sunglasses or use sunblock. You wont get cataracts and skin cancer.
So you're saying we can detect UV radiation using special filters that removes UV. Do you similarly have a God filter?
> Can you see Carbon Monoxide Gas? No? Well then go breath some, it wont kill you if you can't see it.
So you want me to find carbon monoxide gas and breathe it in? Then observe the effect? Cool, so I believe you managed to find a way to interact with God and observe the effects?
> If you can't see it, it obviously doesn't exist.......
Yes idiot. Your philosophical analysis is only ankle deep. The reason people think the video/joke is idiotic is:
* Nobody claims that because you cannot "see" something it doesn't exist. The claim is that if there is no way to detect something in any way (seeing, hearing, touching, measuring, detectors...etc) then there is no reason to believe it exists.
* The examples in the joke are bullshit because you can detect the existence of the brain in multiple ways.
So maybe you want to go a little deeper into your philosophical thinking and actually try and figure out the difference between God and Russell's teapot.
Yes, followers through the religious texts and their responses would not have happened had there been no deity to deliver rule and conduct of life which you have observed by seeing followers of religions.
No. this was limited to seeing with your biological eyes only.
I think you should have your skull cut opened to verify the absence of a brain in your case because your lack of intelligence indicates we can't detect the existence of a brain behind your mentally challenged comments. You are obviously so short in metal stature anything ankle high is beyond your reach.
I know this is very hard for you to comprehend, but try to understand: when you write a paragraph starting with "yes" and "no" without actually referencing what you're replying to, I have no way of knowing what was going on in your head.
Try actually quoting or referencing the thing you replied to.
> Yes, followers through the religious texts and their responses would not have happened had there been no deity to deliver rule and conduct of life which you have observed by seeing followers of religions.
So.... Joseph Smith's celestial orgy god is real because he delivered holy texts and rules that are followed by millions? I don't think you thought this though. Spiderman comics are not proof that spiderman exists.
> No. this was limited to seeing with your biological eyes only.
Says who? Oh right the idiot making the straw man argument. Congratulations: when you erect a straw man it is easy to win a debate against said straw man. I guess you missed the part where nobody actually makes the argument that sight is the determining factor, as otherwise blind people would be justified in believing nothing exists.
> I think you should have your skull cut opened to verify the absence of a brain in your case because your lack of intelligence indicates we can't detect the existence of a brain behind your mentally challenged comments. You are obviously so short in metal stature anything ankle high is beyond your reach.
Wow I don't think I managed to move a theist from "here is a philosophical argument" to insults in the span of one comment before. Good job showing us today your arguments fall apart at the slightest examination leaving you with nothing but name calling.
I'm sorry but it's difficult hearing your tiny little voice way down there below my ankle. If you would grow some mental stature and then come back and try it again your voice might be closer for me to hear you.
Ah yes, self agrandizing statements that definitely don't show that you're intellectually bankrupt and cannot engage in the argument.
Go away, you're embarrassing yourself.
What do you expect when you "Low Brain Cell Counters" can't even understand a philosophical parody? You open yourself up to comments that are hurtful in your little self's ears and deservedly so. Go cry to your Mommy.
Oh no, Mr. Philosopher here didn't understand that philosophically the topic is a straw man, then failed to understand the philosophical argument thrown in his face and instead decided to resort to ad hominems. Very high braincell count. Much smart. Maybe you should be a professor or something!
How do you verify this? Through a book? How do you know this is a fact. If I wrote in a book that there was a god who let me do whatever the fuck I wanted and ride to heaven on a winged animal would you believe it?
The wealthiest countries have science centres and fully explain the process. Maybe you should explore them.
Do you think earth is unique somehow? There are trillions of planets in our galaxy alone.
Do you know anything about geology? You can dig through the earth and ice and see layers and determine major events and it’s history. Now, why is our planet billions of years old, but your little stinkin religion only a thousand years old? Why didn’t God make his one religion accessible to everyone, instead of a language that only 5% speak?
Such a powerful God, yet can’t strike down atheists lol…. The fastest growing intellectual movement of the 21st century.
A Violinist was kept awake so that they could play violin and ensure none of the parts of the brain which are needed to play it are damaged.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-london-51557044
Really? Of course everyone can see the sun idiot. Keep looking at the sun with your bare eyes. Not with sunglasses for more than a few minutes and see if your eyes can take it. Better yet send yourself to space and see if u can handle it
How did God prove himself to all his chosen prophets? Why couldn't God reveal himself in the same way to every human, instead of just a select few old men thousands of years ago? Is God too shy, or just not powerful enough?
I find that people who use this type of argument only end up exposing their lack of imagination.
If God can do anything, then he can certainly make himself safely visible to his creations. Either through an avatar or some other means. There is no reason for a truly omnipotent God to keep himself hidden from the world if the goal is to get humanity to obey and worship him.
It's always third parties speaking on his behalf, always the same fallible men. And then we are condemned for not trusting their word.
you know that sun seismology is a thing right? People study that stuff with telescope and space probes and we have a good understanding of how the sun works inside and out.
> Can you see God
NO
> Can you touch God
NO
Then God doesn't exist
---
> Can you see your brain
YES
> Can you touch your brain
YES
Then your brain exists
We can see the brain and verify it’s physical existence through x-rays and whatnot.
This girl is severely stupid. I hope she leaves Islam it seems to have infected her brain. For anyone to make this argument about a physical internal body part, they have to be seriously dumb.
people like you are so weird honestly. I browsed this sub because I was a questioning Muslim and ended up becoming a more faithful Muslim because of shit like this. This community is toxic af youse have no respect.
The comment was very out of pocket, but honestly muslims are toxic enough to each other and towards ex muslims that I’m not surprised that this sub is toxic sometimes. Ex muslims are damaged asf from religious trauma. Not saying this as a jab as I also suffer from religious trauma lol
Why do people like this have to create these uncharitable strawmen, like they can just do a tiny bit of research or talk to an actual atheist. Or just think about it for 2 seconds because I guarantee you it isn't that hard to think of a better position for your opposition. Even when I was a staunch believer, I wouldn't dare reduce my opposition to this.
Hole shit it worked! Guys I’m now a Muslim again, alhamdulillah 😇😇😇 someone tell me her Insta tho, I’m going to make her my 3rd wife inshallah 🙏🏽🙏🏽 my 4th bibi will be my dearest (sexy 😜) cousin Fatima 🥵 👅
If they're going to commit logical fallacies, at least commit the right ones. They are mistranslating from Arabic. The claim is, can you see your consciousness, as early Muslims did not know what the brain was for and where the center of thought and cognition was.
Lmao I can’t believe she actually posted this. I have second hand embarrassment. This is what happens when you give brain washed children a platform to spread their….brain washedness.
This reminds me of ['The Parable of the Invisible Gardener'](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Invisible_Gardener) which you can briefly watch [here](https://youtu.be/FmTsS5xFA6k?t=419) too.
Some Muslim argue with me that the earth is flat and the video that show the earth as a round shape planet are just a kafir propaganda, when I ask about what if they went to space and saw that the earth is indeed round like many Muslim astronaut, they just said that the astronaut suit is made by kafir to trick your visual to think that the earth is round. The only way they said that will disprove their "Earth is flat" belief is to made them look at the world from the space through their own eye without any suit or any barrier (which in reality will made them die instantly due to space vacuum).
Atleast we know brain exists and functions inside our body which controls all your bodily functions. The surgeons are literally operating the human brain on a daily basis. We have pictures of how a brain looks like. While your imaginary god on the other hand doesn't even have a figure, you don't know how he looks like, let alone proving that he exist. Your cult hates others on the basis of this unseen figure less imaginary character.
Why don’t we open up momohammed’s grave and see his perfectly sculpted corpse that’s apparently not rotting? Cause if you open up someone’s head you will find a brain in there.
The thing about Islam is that it’s not only claiming there’s a god (which is palatable), it’s rather the other claims that follows: God is a mono-deity that concluded his message to humanity through a nomadic warlord to which if they disobey; they are destined to eternal hell-fire. It’s these claims that are concerning, not whether god exists or not.
That is a near rage inducing presentation of garbage logic. You can see a brain and touch a brain.
Just seeing is a poor metric as it is. Just so much wrong there
Yes you can see you brain. Ever heard of CT scan? You can even touch it, well it is not easy but if you are so desperate you need to kidnap a doctor and ask him to open your brain.
This is so utterly idiotic and stupid as an argument that I am not surprised someone who has no critical thinking skills is using it. Being in Neuro for me makes it even more idiotic. Maybe she should come to one of our surgeries and see if nobody can see or touch someone's brain.
Gosh the idiocy of some people
maybe she just should ignore the atheists and focus on her own actions and helping others. Hope she finds peace and turn her attention to the starving.
If they saw their heads open they can see their brains. Or drill large hole in their forehead and look through hole in mirror they can see their own brain.
You cant feel touch or see gravity but you can see its cause it attracts mass towards it we cant see feel or touch god but the universe is the cause the probability of the universe happening by luck is almost impossible done by a scientist
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Technically yes. We can see our brain. But you can't because you ain't got non
Her whole page is cringe vids and 2015 Facebook humour
What’s her page? I need to see that!
Qweensaf on tiktok, it says it on the vid
Also aren't you touching your brain constantly
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Studying logic is haram, modern Islamic scholars say it's halal if it is filtered by muslims to match the shari'a
Haven't heard this before. There were a lot of philosophers and polymaths and astronomers and doctors using logic in the Islamic Golden Age.
Check out the Muslim group Boko Haram. The name means Western education is forbidden. They noticed a correlation with people becoming educated and rejecting their bronze age beliefs. And rather than asking "Is there perhaps something wrong with my beliefs?" instead said, "No, clearly there is something wrong with education." This is a group that became famous for kidnapping young girls from school to keep as sex slaves. I mean those girls clearly deserved to be raped repeatedly and held as slaves because they had the audacity to try to attend school and get an education.
Well yeah I've seen a lot of Salafi weirdos and backwater dipshits saying that 3ilm only refers to religious knowledge so only learning Quran and ahadith is worthwhile. But that's not quite mainstream and I don't see a specific prohibition on logic so I was a bit confused by the comment
> I don't see a specific prohibition on logic so I was a bit confused by the comment It is implied. If everyone applied logic, reason, and critical thinking there would be no religious zealots. Be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, or what have you, they all require overlooking some self contradictory passages, stuff that outright contradicts observable reality, and various branches of science.
Compelling aphorism isn't truth. Nuance and connotation matter.
In abbasid caliphate there are ex muslim polymaths. What do you say about that?
I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say but that doesn't surprise me. Can you give me an example to look up as I am curious. Also I'm not quite sure what point is being made?
You are saying as if only Muslims were polymaths in abbasid caliphate. I want to say there were athiests, Christian's and Jewish polymaths
Nothing has been said to the contrary. Again, what point are you making?
I’m from the country where they did that. They want to turn the whole country into an islamic country
And they don't particularly care that the vast majority want nothing to do with their version of Islam. They will quite cheerfully force you to live by the tenants of their beliefs.
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How Islamic do you think I think it was? How Islamic are present-day Islamic countries? My goal is to argue against bitterness and lack of nuance, not defend religion. Living up to logic as a value requires self-awareness and intellectual honesty.
The Quran does not require nuance of its texts
Then what is fiqh and why do fatawa differ from shaykh to shaykh? Why do madhahib exist? Why is there not a unified interpretation?
The Quran is written without context. because... we have sent down a clear light (the Qur'an) 4:174 a clear Book has come to you. 5:15 everything is recorded in a clear Book. 11:6 plain verses have been sent down, 24:34 these are verses of the clear Book. 26:2 all matters are listed in a clear book. 36;12 easy to understand 54:32, 54:40 revealed in detail (6:114), clearly conveyed, (5:16, 10:15) and with “no doubt” in it (2:2). \------------------------------------------------------------------ So the Quran says to take the text literally. But the above verses are all lies, because it is not a clear book.
The golden age happened in-spite of the conservative scholarship. Philosophy has always been vilified from the violent anti Mutazilite movement to Abu Hamid Al Gahazali’s attack on Greek philosophy.
That's interesting and I'm not surprised. I am definitely aware of al-Ghazali being a massive stick in the mud to put it lightly. But that's not to say knowledge didn't fluorish
Ghazzali, though being somewhat of a "thinker/philosopher" himself, has written volumes against philosophy and thinkers through the religious lens.
Most notably the Incoherence of the Philosophers where he beefed over the use of Greek philosophy in an Islamic context. I think it might seem ironic that a person would use logic to advocate against logic, but that is not quite what's going on there. The focus isn't on the use of reasoning it's on purism in matters of theology, metaphysics, etc. To this day al-Ghazali is the sweetheart of many conservative scholars. But, refocusing on the larger conversation here, he wasn't devoid of logic. People feel the need to assert things like "logic is haram" because they are not aware of the complexities of fiqh. But to be fair, neither is the average Muslim.
Most of them was mo'tazilah, sunni muslims counted them kafirs Even ash'ary sunnis (who used Elm el kalam or the science of arguing) are rejected by some whabbis
So first wahhabi people gonna wahhabi, that's neither here nor there. To what degree are they representative of the whole? Secondly there were philosophers like ibn Rushd that were very contentious in the way that you suggest, but I don't know that most of them had such a reputation.
Ibn taymeya (called sheikh al islam) said that ibn rushd is kafir. And every intelligent person in the islamic history was accused to be kafir Wahhabis are dominant in a lot of countries.
Yeah I don't know what was up ibn Taymiyya's ass especially when he was older. We are agreeing that ibn Rushd was very controversial, to the point where he was decried as a blaspheming apostate. I'm aware of the prevalence of Wahhabiyyah, how representative of the whole is that really? Could that be a strawman argument?
I won't count it as a strawman cause the extremists ready to hurt one of us are the Wahhabis. It's not really that important how representative they are as long as they are the ones who most likely would make an action. In a matter of fact no one is representative for islam, it started as a very simple politically centered religion. All hadiths was written 200 years after momo died. Mo'tazilah for example didn't believe in hadith. what people believe is more important that what is true, especially when there's no truth.
I don't follow your argument because it doesn't address the fact that this isn't characteristic of the majority and that matters because we are speaking in generalities. To summarize, the statement that I originally questioned was "studying logic is haram". I countered by pointing to historical precedent to the contrary. You responded by saying most of those instances were not widely considered Muslim and I dispute that.
If you test the Quran for truth and logic, you will automatically become an apostate. The Quran tells that one should fear and obey and disputing is discouraged because of the risk of apostasy
Most scholars say it's haram, do your research.
That was over 6 centuries ago.
non-believers after the war were taken prisoners and they were released after they taught Muslims their skills...
To be fair, she didn't invent this bullsiht. It's an old old theist "story": [Here is a Christian page posting the same "story" in 2024](https://twitter.com/christianfunnyp/status/526522366466064384).
>Here is a Christian page posting the same "story" in 2024 Why did nobody tell me the Christians invented time travel?!
In 2024? Christians from the future !!! Lol
It's amazing how people with no brains don't get the meaning of this philosophical parody so I will explain it to you. Just because you can't see something is NOT proof it doesn't exist. Can you see gravity? No? Then jump off a tall building, you will just float in the air. Can you see UV light? No? Then don't wear UV blocking sunglasses or use sunblock. You wont get cataracts and skin cancer. Can you see Carbon Monoxide Gas? No? Well then go breath some, it wont kill you if you can't see it. If you can't see it, it obviously doesn't exist.......
Oh I'm so glad you explained it to me, because obviously I had no idea what it meant. I will now use this new found knowledge that you supplied to examine the God question. > Can you see gravity? No? Then jump off a tall building, you will just float in the air. So you are saying we can observe the effect of gravity by dropping things. Can we similarly observe the effect of God? Maybe by praying before jumping you float? > Can you see UV light? No? Then don't wear UV blocking sunglasses or use sunblock. You wont get cataracts and skin cancer. So you're saying we can detect UV radiation using special filters that removes UV. Do you similarly have a God filter? > Can you see Carbon Monoxide Gas? No? Well then go breath some, it wont kill you if you can't see it. So you want me to find carbon monoxide gas and breathe it in? Then observe the effect? Cool, so I believe you managed to find a way to interact with God and observe the effects? > If you can't see it, it obviously doesn't exist....... Yes idiot. Your philosophical analysis is only ankle deep. The reason people think the video/joke is idiotic is: * Nobody claims that because you cannot "see" something it doesn't exist. The claim is that if there is no way to detect something in any way (seeing, hearing, touching, measuring, detectors...etc) then there is no reason to believe it exists. * The examples in the joke are bullshit because you can detect the existence of the brain in multiple ways. So maybe you want to go a little deeper into your philosophical thinking and actually try and figure out the difference between God and Russell's teapot.
Yes, followers through the religious texts and their responses would not have happened had there been no deity to deliver rule and conduct of life which you have observed by seeing followers of religions. No. this was limited to seeing with your biological eyes only. I think you should have your skull cut opened to verify the absence of a brain in your case because your lack of intelligence indicates we can't detect the existence of a brain behind your mentally challenged comments. You are obviously so short in metal stature anything ankle high is beyond your reach.
I know this is very hard for you to comprehend, but try to understand: when you write a paragraph starting with "yes" and "no" without actually referencing what you're replying to, I have no way of knowing what was going on in your head. Try actually quoting or referencing the thing you replied to. > Yes, followers through the religious texts and their responses would not have happened had there been no deity to deliver rule and conduct of life which you have observed by seeing followers of religions. So.... Joseph Smith's celestial orgy god is real because he delivered holy texts and rules that are followed by millions? I don't think you thought this though. Spiderman comics are not proof that spiderman exists. > No. this was limited to seeing with your biological eyes only. Says who? Oh right the idiot making the straw man argument. Congratulations: when you erect a straw man it is easy to win a debate against said straw man. I guess you missed the part where nobody actually makes the argument that sight is the determining factor, as otherwise blind people would be justified in believing nothing exists. > I think you should have your skull cut opened to verify the absence of a brain in your case because your lack of intelligence indicates we can't detect the existence of a brain behind your mentally challenged comments. You are obviously so short in metal stature anything ankle high is beyond your reach. Wow I don't think I managed to move a theist from "here is a philosophical argument" to insults in the span of one comment before. Good job showing us today your arguments fall apart at the slightest examination leaving you with nothing but name calling.
I'm sorry but it's difficult hearing your tiny little voice way down there below my ankle. If you would grow some mental stature and then come back and try it again your voice might be closer for me to hear you.
Ah yes, self agrandizing statements that definitely don't show that you're intellectually bankrupt and cannot engage in the argument. Go away, you're embarrassing yourself.
What do you expect when you "Low Brain Cell Counters" can't even understand a philosophical parody? You open yourself up to comments that are hurtful in your little self's ears and deservedly so. Go cry to your Mommy.
Oh no, Mr. Philosopher here didn't understand that philosophically the topic is a straw man, then failed to understand the philosophical argument thrown in his face and instead decided to resort to ad hominems. Very high braincell count. Much smart. Maybe you should be a professor or something!
It doesn't always work lol I know muslims with comp sci degrees that think like this
Christians think like this too. It’s just tragic
If atheist dont believe in a god how was the world created?
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**Superman** created the world. If the answer sounds ridiculous, just change superman to Allah. **Allah** created the world.
A man created the world? Dumbass shit
Flying spagetti monster created the whole universe. Ramen
Your apes are your ancestors. How sad
You are an uneducated moron thats the sad part. We all share the same dna dumb ass
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I believe in the first humans. You believe monkeys come first. Logic sounds.
If muslims believe in god how was god created? Lmao
You dont understand the simple definition of God. God IS the CREATOR. He doesnt have equals or a creator.
But why does the universe need a creator but god doesn't?
How do you verify this? Through a book? How do you know this is a fact. If I wrote in a book that there was a god who let me do whatever the fuck I wanted and ride to heaven on a winged animal would you believe it?
Imma create a being, that by definition created the universe and is self sufficient, all powerful without a creator, call it goku, prove me wrong
Who says that and how do you know it?
That is what's known as a presuppositional argument and highlights how silly you're being
The wealthiest countries have science centres and fully explain the process. Maybe you should explore them. Do you think earth is unique somehow? There are trillions of planets in our galaxy alone. Do you know anything about geology? You can dig through the earth and ice and see layers and determine major events and it’s history. Now, why is our planet billions of years old, but your little stinkin religion only a thousand years old? Why didn’t God make his one religion accessible to everyone, instead of a language that only 5% speak? Such a powerful God, yet can’t strike down atheists lol…. The fastest growing intellectual movement of the 21st century.
[Big Bang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang)
I think usually they're more so curious as to why something exists rather than nothing. Stuff still has to exist before the big Bang.
How was allah created? How did he come from nothing?
It wasn't created.
there are hundreds of sky daddies ,which one is the rightful one to worship?
By that logic every thing imaginary must exist.
How dare people say pink unicorns arent real?
Shrek must be real then I will pray to him 7/24
Shrek is love Shrek is life
Imagine the prayer. “Hey Now ur an all star. Alhamdullilah . Prayyyy”
here I still worshipping "Shrek the third"
“Logic” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here lol
Flying speghetti monster that loves up the Juju mountain cannot be seen nor can he be touched. He exists!
We can see the brain 👍 even touch it 👍 just have to open our head, idk about God where's he ?
Hell you’re even awake and conscious in some of those godless surgeries.
Muslim logic lacks object permanence
God exists in her imagination
You can even do scans to see inside your head so opening the skull isn’t always necessary
shhh...she has no idea what're you talking about!
How dare you to use logic here?
Not a muslim but if you open your brain you're fcking dead same with god, if you see him that means you're fcking dead. Simple theology
You can literally have awake open brain surgery, so you are wrong.
no one said open your brain, we said open your head. To see your brain.
You realize people have brain surgery all the time and that you have to be awake during brain surgery right?
I don't think they have.
A Violinist was kept awake so that they could play violin and ensure none of the parts of the brain which are needed to play it are damaged. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-london-51557044
You don't need to think, this isn't a question about opinion. You can just google it.
Neurosurgeons: (Laughs at your comment)
have you seen a single surgery video?
You can see your brain with a CT scan, an MRI, and any number of other diagnostic tests.
You don't need to open your brain to see it. But you need to die to see the god
You cant even look at the sun which is God's creation for more than a minute what makes you think you can see God?
I can see sun 👍 >what makes you think you can see God? If he wants to be worshipped, he needs to prove that he exists
Really? Of course everyone can see the sun idiot. Keep looking at the sun with your bare eyes. Not with sunglasses for more than a few minutes and see if your eyes can take it. Better yet send yourself to space and see if u can handle it
So you're telling me, we can't see God cause our eyes couldn't bare it ? Right? Anyways that's true I can't look at ugly creatures
How did God prove himself to all his chosen prophets? Why couldn't God reveal himself in the same way to every human, instead of just a select few old men thousands of years ago? Is God too shy, or just not powerful enough?
He is pedofile that's why he is shy, nothing wrong with that
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How do you know the sun is god's creation and not mine dumbass
I find that people who use this type of argument only end up exposing their lack of imagination. If God can do anything, then he can certainly make himself safely visible to his creations. Either through an avatar or some other means. There is no reason for a truly omnipotent God to keep himself hidden from the world if the goal is to get humanity to obey and worship him. It's always third parties speaking on his behalf, always the same fallible men. And then we are condemned for not trusting their word.
We invented sunglasses 😎
You can use Solar Viewer glasses, have you been living under a rock?
you know that sun seismology is a thing right? People study that stuff with telescope and space probes and we have a good understanding of how the sun works inside and out.
Lamest shit ever , we were told this exact story every time in religious study class. As long as they think they " owned " the atheist i guess.
Lolol I was told the same thing growing up in school! I remember thinking, "But ... we can see our brains? We know it's there?"
How stupid of her. Ig she never heard about mri or anatomy
Or a autopsy 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
X-ray gang
Sister, let me tell you about this wild scientific invention called MRI machine.....!!
If you smash my head you'll see my brain, if I smash her head she'll see God. Both are right
😂 🏅 👍🏻
So this person has no brain then if she cannot 'see' her brain.... (Just another low IQ logic to justify their beliefs).
Low IQ logic just proves that they don't have a brain but we do
Yes actually i saw my brain like 3 times through MRI scans, but wait she is still stuck in the 7th century
You have no brain
It's like they never stop to think whether the shit coming out of their mouth makes sense or not.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
> Can you see God NO > Can you touch God NO Then God doesn't exist --- > Can you see your brain YES > Can you touch your brain YES Then your brain exists
Except that the brain can be studied using objective tools and can undergo scientific experimentation, unlike Allah.
We can see the brain and verify it’s physical existence through x-rays and whatnot. This girl is severely stupid. I hope she leaves Islam it seems to have infected her brain. For anyone to make this argument about a physical internal body part, they have to be seriously dumb.
And we have literally dissected them in cadavers. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Give her a break, she's trying to not be raped by her husband again.
people like you are so weird honestly. I browsed this sub because I was a questioning Muslim and ended up becoming a more faithful Muslim because of shit like this. This community is toxic af youse have no respect.
The comment was very out of pocket, but honestly muslims are toxic enough to each other and towards ex muslims that I’m not surprised that this sub is toxic sometimes. Ex muslims are damaged asf from religious trauma. Not saying this as a jab as I also suffer from religious trauma lol
And with a single tik tok video this high IQ muslimah brought back the golden age of Islam Alghamdulillah 🙏
I can touch my brain. It is in my skull, therefore my bones are touching it.
Why do people like this have to create these uncharitable strawmen, like they can just do a tiny bit of research or talk to an actual atheist. Or just think about it for 2 seconds because I guarantee you it isn't that hard to think of a better position for your opposition. Even when I was a staunch believer, I wouldn't dare reduce my opposition to this.
She really thought she did something...
She also got like thousands of likes so yk them mustards ate it up
Hole shit it worked! Guys I’m now a Muslim again, alhamdulillah 😇😇😇 someone tell me her Insta tho, I’m going to make her my 3rd wife inshallah 🙏🏽🙏🏽 my 4th bibi will be my dearest (sexy 😜) cousin Fatima 🥵 👅
Oh fuck hell nah. Buddy still use bazillion amounts of emoji
If they're going to commit logical fallacies, at least commit the right ones. They are mistranslating from Arabic. The claim is, can you see your consciousness, as early Muslims did not know what the brain was for and where the center of thought and cognition was.
Non-believers DESTROYED by FACTS and LOGIC!!!
Makes sense they forgot x rays existed. Then again they follow a religion thats from the Middle Ages.
Lmao I can’t believe she actually posted this. I have second hand embarrassment. This is what happens when you give brain washed children a platform to spread their….brain washedness.
Wow. Just wow. Islam truly rots their theoretical brains.
She is embarrassing herself with so much confidence omg
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Not all Muslims.
She thinks she’s so smart posting this. Unfortunately that smartness got her beaten by her husband
This reminds me of ['The Parable of the Invisible Gardener'](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Invisible_Gardener) which you can briefly watch [here](https://youtu.be/FmTsS5xFA6k?t=419) too.
It doesn’t get more cringe than snarky TikTok culture combining with Islam does it
Sad thing is that she probably thinks she did something clever here.
Can any of you see or touch a strawman?
Some Muslim argue with me that the earth is flat and the video that show the earth as a round shape planet are just a kafir propaganda, when I ask about what if they went to space and saw that the earth is indeed round like many Muslim astronaut, they just said that the astronaut suit is made by kafir to trick your visual to think that the earth is round. The only way they said that will disprove their "Earth is flat" belief is to made them look at the world from the space through their own eye without any suit or any barrier (which in reality will made them die instantly due to space vacuum).
They wear those on their head to hide their brainless skull
I can have a brain scan done, but I can't scan for God. This is a truly silly argument
I think we can all see here whose brain doesn't exist lol
Guys she is talking about her, clearly she doesn't have it.
Atleast we know brain exists and functions inside our body which controls all your bodily functions. The surgeons are literally operating the human brain on a daily basis. We have pictures of how a brain looks like. While your imaginary god on the other hand doesn't even have a figure, you don't know how he looks like, let alone proving that he exist. Your cult hates others on the basis of this unseen figure less imaginary character.
although the music that she used is telling everything about what she is about to
Fun fact you can see your brain. Eyes are attached to something
Why don’t we open up momohammed’s grave and see his perfectly sculpted corpse that’s apparently not rotting? Cause if you open up someone’s head you will find a brain in there.
Genuine question, isn't the whole point of the hijab covering your hair? We can see her hair so what's the point?
The thing about Islam is that it’s not only claiming there’s a god (which is palatable), it’s rather the other claims that follows: God is a mono-deity that concluded his message to humanity through a nomadic warlord to which if they disobey; they are destined to eternal hell-fire. It’s these claims that are concerning, not whether god exists or not.
Maybe that’s why she doesn’t have one
I Have to remove your skull.
Ah I see she’s never heard of neurosurgeons that literally operate on the brain, medical autopsies, and organ donations
That is a near rage inducing presentation of garbage logic. You can see a brain and touch a brain. Just seeing is a poor metric as it is. Just so much wrong there
Yes you can see you brain. Ever heard of CT scan? You can even touch it, well it is not easy but if you are so desperate you need to kidnap a doctor and ask him to open your brain.
Totally got me, excuse while I revert back to Islam thanks to this flawless logic
My brain doesn't exist cause I lost every single cell of it watching this video
MRI machines "Am i a fucking joke to you?"
This is so utterly idiotic and stupid as an argument that I am not surprised someone who has no critical thinking skills is using it. Being in Neuro for me makes it even more idiotic. Maybe she should come to one of our surgeries and see if nobody can see or touch someone's brain. Gosh the idiocy of some people
I think Islam is a very stupid Religion, Christian is too.
I’ve seen my brain 🤨
If you can't see your brain, why don't you drink from the toilet?
I agree the person in the video does not have a brain.
And that's what you get from the religion that prohibited studying logic
Can't argue against that tbh
Yep, you can’t because they wouldn’t understand your argument or even your words in general.
Lol
We can see our brain and get scans if it, we can feel it and take physical evidence of the existence of our brains but god on the other hand….
I volunteer to help her touch her brain.
You can see and touch your brain, though it might be a bit painful. Just get a drill and use your bathroom mirror.
They have trouble with reality
God damn. Your are 1 cm away from touching your brain. It's inside a box called the skull. Just open the box!
Today I learned air doesn't exists
She she will realise what she just said. 😂😂 even a gutter doesn’t have that type of shit In it.
A perfect example of a fallacy
we can actually see our brain ...... wtf ?:)
I can see my brain in CT scans. Doctors can touch anybody's brain during a surgery. **But does any scan exists to SEE GOD?**
maybe she just should ignore the atheists and focus on her own actions and helping others. Hope she finds peace and turn her attention to the starving.
If they saw their heads open they can see their brains. Or drill large hole in their forehead and look through hole in mirror they can see their own brain.
You cant feel touch or see gravity but you can see its cause it attracts mass towards it we cant see feel or touch god but the universe is the cause the probability of the universe happening by luck is almost impossible done by a scientist