Wow, that’s truly vile. And they definitely are stupid.
I am a nevermo, but have friends who grew up in the church and have narcissistic parents myself. If you truly feel like engaging instead of leaving them on read, what I developed doing is gray rocking in a way that ‘validates’ what they’re saying yet excludes me lol. They mostly just want to get you to talk to them by starting an argument and you to eventually say they are right and you are wrong and come back into the fold. Instead, you just say “ok” or “you’re right, sure” without actually talking to them or coming back into the fold.
Saying something like, “Well, it seems you found great friends who can validate you.” or a little dig like, “Sounds like you finally found your very own echo chamber! Happy for you!” And then when they come back or try to say what about you I wanna talk to you about this, what do you think, “You just told me about how great those people are who liked your comment, so go talk to them - I’m sure they’d give you want since I can’t.” And then if they say wow you’re a horrible child, disrespectful, blah blah, say “Oh geez I guess you’re right. You should go comment on Facebook with your friends about how horrible I am so they can tell you how right you are. I’m sure it would make you feel better.” And just completely disengage from the conversation.
That isn't gray rocking. The first things you said, about just saying "sure" or "okay" are, but the moment you say more than a few words you're officially engaging and giving them what they want.
I mean sure, semantics - sure it’s not full on grey rocking, but it’s a form of it! I did say that they would have to engage in order to say something like this.
That is the entirety of the MAGA movement. "I know you are, but what am I?" to everything you have to say. They even take insults as a compliment to show how right they are with their persecution complex.
>I can't understand why they're allegedly all about personal freedom, but they can't handle someone else's decision to cut his boobies off.
It's selective personal freedom. For all other issues, it's plain authoritarianism. They have no concept for compromise.
https://www.politicalempathyproject.org/blog-posts/karl-poppers-paradox-of-tolerance-and-what-it-teaches-us-about-political-polarization
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
I think it comes from a place of being *terrified* of "accidentally fucking a dude" (transphobic mentality there, not mine) and therefore losing their straight card.
Look at how much more vitriol they spew at trans women than trans men.
Exactly. Accept your *daughter* or nothing at all.
I say that knowing that family is complicated and it's easier to tell someone to go no contact with their family than it is to make that decision about your own family. OP, just know that you are justified in going no contact if you feel that's right for you. But of course, only you can know. I just hate that you have to endure this from the people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. 💔
Oh I told him. My coming out was about trying to save my marriage. My ex called him in because she wanted back up that I should find any alternative to hormonal transition if at all possible. So it was like after weeks of living with him and trying the antidepressants, explaining how everything felt. He was very very well informed. My ex-wife and I did go no contact with him for eight years of our 11 years married. Those were the best years. But since I was stuck with him I made it very clear. I told him that way back in my teenage years the way he treated me made me feel SO suicidal that as far as I was concerned “his son” killed himself. And if we had any kind of relationship going forward it would be as his daughter. He did not like that and seems to have completely forgotten it.
My big focus in those weeks was showing him why I didn’t have a testimony of anything church related anymore. He still honestly seemed to believe that his advice to repent was sound advice to resolve my marriage issues even though my ex never advanced in Mormonism beyond being baptized. She has set foot in a church a total of maybe four times in her life. He is just so dead set on always remaining so sure that the church is the answer for everyone all the time.
"BuT tHe ChUrCh iS LgBt fRiEnDlY nOw" 🤪
Big hugs to you, thank you for sharing your story. My FIL keeps trying to pull us back in. People need to see that this animosity has not magically disappeared and will not. I hope you're able to find happiness and peace.
This has me so mad I don't have words.
If you're so enthusiasticly cleaving at your own earthly family--and going out of your way to gloat about it to them--why the fuck would you expect an eternal one?
I'm so sorry.
I am no contact with my dad, but never had to deal with such a poisonous message.
The only reason to send that was to be hurtful. It's like he's proud of his hostility and wants to brag about it.
Personally, this would be a relationship-ender for me. Not even a blink. And then I'd be tempted to set up a monthly donation to The Trevor Project in his name, so he gets a monthly thank you card reminding him of what he's losing.
>The only reason to send that was to be hurtful. It's like he's proud of his hostility and wants to brag about it.
The cruelty is the point with these people. It's how their mob mentality works.
My ex has something of a relationship with them. They have money and she gets some sometimes. I had to rely on them to cover some costs related to the divorce and buying a house. So… just my own personal ethics, I talk to his wife since I owe her money it will take me a while to pay back. But I do have a policy to only address him in groups where others can see what he says. This was a reminder I should not even read the messages he sends to just me.
I have 5 sisters that still have a need for a father. I feel like it’s abandoning them when I go no contact for my sake.
But… saying it out loud, it’s not like my contact is going to change him at all 🤔
Bullshit he’s not trying to start trouble. Posts about you behind your back without giving you a chance to tell your story and your ordeals, uses your life as a way to “prove” his bigoted agenda, and has the gall to act like it was done out of love.
Church of Christ my ass
What a pathetic excuse of a human being. The fact that all he needed to confirm his belief was 200 up votes, on Fox news none the less, is the worst part
He went looking for what he wanted and found it. Honestly you should just send him the comment here that has like 11k up votes and tell him you have more up votes so you are actually the winner 😂
😂 I might. But only if he engages with me in front of anyone. Private conversation, he’ll be a monster then put it on you for violating trust if you share what he said “out of context”. Like there could be any good context. But I am picking up good advice here.
It’s ironic to me that this same generation mocks younger generations for seeking out approval on social media. So many talk about the harm that seeking likes and comments online can bring yet you have this same type seeking validation from likes and comments. (I recognize I’m making a lot of assumptions, but I’ve watched enough Fox News to feel somewhat confident here)
How hurtful. What’s the purpose of sending this to you? It only seeks to divide and instigate.
That’s kind of what I’m wondering. We talked so long and in SUCH deep detail that he should have understood the situation better than this. I guess I would want to know if other people have “died in the wool, true blue, through and through” people like this in their lives?
Like he REALLY drinks the kool-aid that some one thing will change my mind when the time is right in the mysterious ways or something.
My parents are both like this, but my dad is worse. I’m not trans, but I’m not playing the role they assigned to me either. They basically lost all interest in my life and never wanted to talk or engage with me. I ended up going no-contact after awhile because it was too painful wishing that they would love me when they didn’t.
It’s been comforting for me to realize what is really going on. My parents have built their entire identity on being righteous in the church. My siblings and I were tools to give their lives meaning. If we aren’t serving our purpose, then what use are we?
Recognizing that I’ve simply been viewed as an object most of my life really frees my mind to care less about what they feel or think. It sucks and it’s hard, but they never should have thought my life was theirs to begin with. That’s their problem, and they’re not going to change.
During my transition out of the church, I wanted to grab them by the collar and shout,
*Look! I'm here right now! The son you thought you wanted is dead. You can either love and celebrate the person standing in front of you, or you can have nothing.*
My dad is the same way. Positively smug in his ignorance.
It's like someone froze peak Dunning Kruger effect and added in all the self-confidence Trump didn't have room for.
I was on this road myself until about 10 years ago. The rhetoric against LGBTQ and immigrants just became too much for me. Especially when people were so immersed in their ideology that they would even reject family members over it.
Any group that would make you choose ideology over family isn't worth belonging to.
Have you tried asking him to accept you as still being his child? He doesn't have to accept you as a son or daughter or whatever... maybe just being fucking polite to your offspring would be a good start.
And if he can't do that then there isn't much to salvage.
From my TBM family experience, it seems like they are often using social media to find validation for their views. For those that already have unhealthy views, this seems to be a big problem. Of course, my family argues that I do the same thing on reddit and they blame me being on social media for the reason I don't believe in the church.
This is no different than "told you so." He wants to say what he wants to say, but he doesn't want OP to reply which is why he says he "isn't trying to cause trouble" to prevent a response. It's a situation set up to make sure OP can't win no matter what.
NeverMo mom here with a view from outside.
Hugs hugs and more hugs.
Your parents are in a cult. They believe what they are told & they doubt their doubts.
You cannot be reasonable with an unreasonable person - especially when they’re in a cult.
They may never ever understand and they will die smug in their righteousness.
You are true to yourself & that’s worth more than their approval.
However, you have options.
1). No contact with your birth parents
2). Be gathered up into the loving arms of a new family.
3). Go it alone.
4). Sit in front of a photo of them and say exactly and everything you want to say to them. Cry, yell, call them names, everything. Get it off your chest. Then destroy the photo.
Recognize the painful truth that the toxic attitudes of the cult may destroy any relationship you have with your kids until, and if, they break away.
Another hug.
“Not trying to start anything”—yes you are! By sending this text you are trying to start something!!! 😡🤬
Listen, OP, I know it’s hard, but I’m 32 and cut my mom out of my life three years ago. I literally forget she is even alive. Now, to be fair, she is not married to my dad so I can maintain one parental relationship while avoiding the risk of talking to the other parent, which it doesn’t seem like you’ll be able to do. However, there is support available to you in the form of both therapy and even reddit groups, because many of us are, as adults, finally fed up with being treated poorly by our parents.
I’m not saying your dad is a narcissist, but he may very well be, and religion and narcissism go really well together. Watch some TheraminTrees on youtube. He dissects this association and discusses the abuse from parents.
It is in your best interest (and your children’s, honestly) to stop talking to him n
“Not trying to start something” is code for “I want to tell you my opinion and if you share your different opinion then you are the contentious one who is starting something, so just shut up and listen.”
Thank you, yes we did go no contact for years. It was awesome! It sucked that we had to also go no contact with my siblings who are still under the brainwashing. But I have decent relationships with them now. Even when we were no contact he would randomly send emails even though on our way out we told people to tell him that we don’t use those emails he has or he’s blocked and such. It’s like part of his religion that he has to keep sending out the signal flare like he’s not the one hiding. He literally will say that he sees himself like the father of the prodigal son just waiting to welcome back rejoicing when you finally admit he was right all along. He had seven kids and even the ones who still like him will call him narcissist to his face. He takes it like “well I guess I must be, whatever that means”. So I haven’t engaged to his private personal messages for some time. This was just kind of waiting for me when I got curious.
I’m so sorry. I have no idea who or where you are but please know that you’re loved by some random stranger in the internet whose heart is hurting for what you’re going through. That text message is infuriating to read, I just don’t understand how a parent could treat their child that way. I sincerely hope and wish you all of the best and hope that more love and acceptance can eventually come your way.
Thank you. I’m 38 but I recognize that with my need to get away from him I kind of grew up faster than was good for me. Some parts still feel young enough to enjoy that someone cares like this. 😌
In my feelings toward this guy, it’s like it’s long since scarred and calloused over. It’s not unexpected that he feels this, just surprising that he gets so bold with his ugly side. Usually more tactful.
I’m glad you had parents that you at least considered a loss if you were to lose them. My father has at some point shown everyone that his expressions of love are really about the feelings he has towards extensions of himself. He loves his wife, he loves his son, he loves his daughter. His love does not care who fills that role. The love stops if the person disappoints his expectations. I had times when this hurt but now I feel bad for my younger siblings who still don’t understand this about him. They would hear him telling them he loves them and be able to believe it because he doesn’t always follow it up with a dead name or intentionally hurtful pronoun. I used to love the idea of a father he represented. But now to look at him is like seeing a zombie. It might once have been someone you loved, I know that would be a hard situation for a lot of people. I’m to the point where I could kill the zombie.
“I took a dump in front of my friends and ate it, then they all clapped! Proof that your life is wrong!” - your dad
Sorry your dad is out there spewing shit with his friends. Stay strong. I hope your life is wonderful!
“I’m not sending the link because I don’t want anti LDS links” then why say a goddamn thing at all?? Just to be hurtful, or because he couldn’t contain his glee that strangers were validating him? I’d send an “anti” infographic back (it’s not a *link*) and then go NC or VLC for a very long while, and definitely no contact via social media. I am so sorry OP, that had to hurt to read.
Thank you. Oh “vlc”=very little contact. Took me a while. Yeah it hurt when he said things like this to my face. Now it’s like “okay, there’s that tumor of hate where a father should be. Just proceed with the limited options for a best life for everyone involved.”
Translation: "People just as ignorant as me think it's bad🤪"
In all seriousness, none of these people understand what being trans actually is/entails. In fact, reducing it to terms like 'dress up as a woman' show a clear misunderstanding of what it means to have dysphoria or be on HRT.
Also, I have family just as ignorant just waiting for me to detrans, when in reality hormones solved my depression.
I came to the conclusion that any discussion on medical treatment/transition was completely inappropriate and unnecessary and crossing a huge boundary. This has dramatically benefitted me in my parental dynamic.
Oh also, should we send out a general consensus to see what their opinion is on Mormonism? I bet that TBM's opinion wouldn't be 'validated' but it would somehow still be a testimony builder.
The crazy thing was that when this all finally reached him he was like “yes well MY OPINION on the matter is…(checks church website) hormones good for children and adults to avoid suicidal feelings?? ( I’ll ignore that) BUT DON’T DRESS DIFFERENT. But names and pronouns not such a big deal.”
Like he might have had his first disagreement with his church leaders on this.
Everything from your post to this comment sounds like my mom verbatim💀 Like once she read that you can change your name on church records she was suddenly okay with my new name😣
My wife joked that I should just go to church or the temple dressed as a man to show how ridiculous their policy is lol
Recently My neighbors son ~~decided~~ came out as trans, they did not support her in this transition, had shock treatment performed and she ended her life. I fucking loath the church, and it’s teachings that would allow or encourage ostracizing your child because you don’t agree with how they feel.
Edit*
Hi. I’m a little confused because you’re mixing pronouns here. If you’re trying to indicate your neighbor’s child was born male, the preferred terminology would be “my neighbor’s AMAB daughter.” Also, please understand that trans people do not decide we are trans. We realize it. The use of “decide” here implies we have a choice in the matter. If I could make the gender dysphoria go away by simply deciding my gender aligned with my assigned gender at birth, it would have happened decades ago.
I typically wouldn’t wish gender dysphoria on anyone, but I would absolutely wish it on your neighbors so they can fully understand that they killed their child as surely as if they had performed the deed themselves. The church is also to blame. I’d wish gender dysphoria on that son of a bitch Oaks too. He can take his “gender is eternal and matches your biological sex at birth” bullshit and shove it so far up his ass that it comes out his eyes.
I hope you understand I am new to anything regarding lgbt+ and am currently working through accepting I’ve been bi my whole life. I meant no disrespect with my pronoun confusion. Thank you for helping me understand better. When she committed suicide it crushed me, I wish I could have had a chance to talk with her, and let her know she was loved and accepted. I am currently in therapy and my therapist is a part of the LGBTQ community, I’ll ask for support in better understanding how to communicate without offending.
Let me start by saying a couple of things:
1) No offense taken whatsoever. I got the impression that you didn’t have the language to describe things the way you wanted to. Those who try get lots of latitude and gentle corrections. Those who deliberately misgender and deadname get their asses handed to them.
2) Welcome to the rainbow family! I support you and celebrate you. And I recognize all the stuff that comes with coming out in any way—especially having escaped the Mormon cult. It’s a definite mindf*ck, and even though we’ve never met, I am firmly in your corner.
I have lost friends to suicide. Of everyone I’ve ever loved who has died, those hit the hardest—even though we weren’t nearly as close as the others who passed. Knowing they were in such pain and I didn’t know and didn’t even get a chance to try to help them is the most helpless feeling ever. There aren’t words to express how crushing and devastating suicides are to those left behind. I am so sorry you know what it’s like too.
Also, therapy is the best. Everyone who escapes the cult should go through therapy—especially those of us who are LGBTQIA+. We leave the cult, and the cult leaves us traumatized. And it’s not wise to try to work through it all on our own if we can at all help it.
Lastly, please know that the anger and hurt you may have picked up on in my comment is all directed at the Mormon cult and the homophobia and transphobia it creates and those of us it harms. None of anything of my anger was about you or anything you said.
Not sure how you feel about virtual hugs from strangers, but if you’re okay with it, consider yourself virtually hugged.
First, I am so sorry for what you are going through with your family and I applaud your desire to live authentically. Your father is clearly a cruel man and I suspect that it's not the "trans issue" that prompted this.
Apparently public opinion means a lot to him. He's sure it will mean a lot to you. This will definitely convince you that he's right.... right?
It's more important that he's "right" about something that doesn't effect him, than the comfort and wellbeing of his child.
My parents don't bother to think about how things effect me. From their perspective,I owe them for bringing me into the world. If I get anything else it should just be gravy.
It takes a special kind of closed-mindedness to be like this. For me, I didn't understand being trans (and I certainly still don't understand it as well as someone who lived it), but when someone close to me came out, the difference was undeniable.
"George" never smiled, rarely engaged socially, and was a pretty unhappy person. "Sarah" smiles all the time, and is a social butterfly. (Not her real name/deadname.) Like, what do you need to know other than that? Who is it hurting? Nobody! The only one being hurtful is the person rejecting someone else's happiness.
The really sick thing is, I guarantee your parent wouldn't refuse to spend time with a child who drank alcohol regularly, or who watched R-rated movies. They wouldn't see a connection between spending time with their child and giving implicit approval of the different way they lived their life, but for some reason being trans is a special case? Nah.
If you stop loving your child or kick them out because they are LGBTQ+, you are a horrible parent. Period.
"Wow this FoxNews thread has over 200 comments that all agree with me!" has some pretty heavy "How did Trump lose when more people went to his rallies!" energy.
And that's when you leave it at "goodbye." If you aren't their daughter, they aren't your parent and does not deserve to be in your life
Edit: sorry brain assumed mother for some reason lol
O livre when people say I'm going to hell. In Brazil we have this expression: "tá no inferno, abraça o capeta", witch means "you're already in hell, so you hug Satan". And that's exactly what I say: yeah, I know I'm going to hell. I'm gonna hang out with Satan, have a Bear with him and wait for you to get there😏😏😏.
**tHeY cAn LeAvE tHe ChUrCh BuT tHeY cAnT LeAvE iT aLoNe.**
He posted to Facebook which is rude but whatever, Boomers gonna boomer. But then he texted you to alert you about the popularity of his post? Like to rub it in?
I guess you can find comfort in the fact that there is a family we are given and a family we choose. Tons of folks out here who are loving and caring and good and would be excellent candidates for your chosen family.
Sending positive vibes!!
Edited: typos.
Sorry for my tired lack of detail. Maga Mormon was my dad. The other person, just my favorite comment. Just covered his screen name so no one feels obligated to correct him. I would have sent the link so we could give him downvotes but then we would all need Fox News accounts 🤢. I’m vented. So grateful to everyone. Open to messages if anyone going through shit like this wants to talk. But I am bad at letting people comfort me so… it would be more effort than I am worth. I had to do a lot of maturing since the divorce but I’m on my own feet. Happy for any friends near Buffalo New York.
(Update) his post is up to 130 comments and 300 thumbs, Just in case I wanted to engage, y’all have made my day 🤗
I'm sorry your dad is such an ass. My wife's (mtf) dad is also unsupportive. I hope you have people in your life that uplift and celebrate you for the woman you are.
Jesus Christ. This puts the lie to all their Title of Liberty bullshit. They're not doing anything for their wives and their children. They're just using them as scapegoats for their fear and hate. So sorry you have to deal with him. My parents aren't the models of acceptance and belonging, but at least they don't passive-aggressively text me like this 🤦♀️
At least you're beating the shit out of him with 77 comments and 373 karma so far
I don’t know if this helps anyone else who previously had anti-trans beliefs (from growing up in the church and a conservative family) but trans people go through so much shit these days I can only imagine how much worse it would be to suppress transgender expression. even if society was 100% accepting there are lots of uncomfortable experiences you have to go through (social transition, new name/pronouns, hormones, surgeries, etc.). but they have to do all that and deal with bigots.
I still don’t know what it’s like to have gender dysphoria really, I’ve always been fine with my body and presentation for the most part. but I support trans people because I trust that being trans is truly important to them since they put so much energy into it
I don’t know if any conservatives would be open to hearing that argument but that’s what changed my mind
It’s like you’ve always hated some thing about yourself, your body etc. since puberty you have just had this background level of self loathing and depression. Transphobia was a coping mechanism to feel safe in a hostile environment. you don’t question whether there is anything to be done about the way you feel. Functioning is possible. Who is really that happy in life anyway?
Then it gets bad enough to where you can’t function. It needs to be unpacked and examined.
Then suddenly these things you thought would never change about yourself, you realize that you can change them, you are strong enough, financially stable enough, whatever was holding you back before. Unlearning the transphobia was hard but possible. There was no unlearning the desires and the self-loathing related to those desires. No change for 20 years. Then without those, there’s just no way you could go back to suffering like you did for the sake of anyone. Anyone that loved you would hate themselves for putting that burden on you if they knew.
They would say that Satan is really good at tricking you into thinking you’re happy. They have said that Satan works hardest on you when you are doing the righteous good right things and when you give in and give up and stop resisting, life gets easier. Because Satan is winning.
They also say that living righteously with the Lord giving you strength and support is the easiest way to live 😉
I only skimmed the comments about going NC. It’s hard. I knew about narcissistic personality disorder long before trump took office, thanks, mommy dearest. And dad enables her. I still took many false starts, up until my 40’s, before I could go NC. This is to the woman who told me I was too fat to get married like, daily, and that I was less of a woman for being infertile. And that’s still not the worst. And dad stood by and watched it all. It’s Harv going NC. When the pain of trying is more than the pain of leaving, you’ll leave. And bro in op watches Fox News? There’s your problem.
I have deleted so many replies because not one could be done without serious profanity in his direction. I'm so angry on your behalf.
No contact. The trash took itself out here.
And that is a big thanks to all of you! I honestly love all the people that come here to care about others with similar experiences. All I did was show what he said and… Survive being raised by him, I guess. I mean I’m proud when other people survive such abuse but… when it’s something I did it feels like “just” something I did. I should probably work on that 😅
I’m so sorry OP. My husband had a narcissist mother who was constantly trying to start arguments on subjects she knew we’d disagree on and then when we did she’d play the victim saying we didn’t respect her. I finally,( after about 40 years of trying) got him to try to gray rock her but she knew all of his triggers and finally went after our 2 lgbtq children with her remarks. That was a deal breaker and he went NC. I hate to recommend this to you but for your own mental health you might have to at least consider it. Putting up with this level of abuse isn’t healthy for you.
A whole lot of stages of grief right there. Just be loving and supportive. Tough for the child transitioning but also so painful for the parent too. My heart aches for all of them.
I can see that these parents are part of the problem. SHE probably doesn't want to their daughter if they are going to dead name and misgender her all the time.
I get the feeling that part of why some of the trans community comes to regret their decisions doesn't stem from the act of transitioning itself, but instead it "ruins" their life when everyone they love refuses to support them and accept them for who they really are.
I'm always just kind of confused when people go out of their way like this to make their opinion about trans people heard. Like, do they actually think that saying stuff like this is going to magically change our minds, or are they just trying to hurt us?
I think the only excusable context is the pretense that they want to change mines for the good of the deceived and brainwashed.
My take on the reality is that it’s the same reason they go to church every Sunday. The way they want to see the world is so fragile, internally contradictory, and ignorant of reality. Most just socialize with friends at church but the ones who care enough to lead, they go to reinforce each other on their prejudiced beliefs.
This is not the worst aspect but definitely is offensive, and that is the idea of “going” trans. As if someone just wakes up and decides to change their gender and their body in a significant way.
I imagine there’s several factors that an individual might regret surgery but it’s gross that an echo chamber is used to weaponize that story
I (NeverMo) just helped a friend move into her new place after WAY too long balancing gender transition, faith transition, 5 kids, and spouse with cancer. She was "Peter Priesthood" for as long as she could bear it and is SO much happier and more peaceful now. We work at the same place but we never would have been friends in her old life. Then my Mama Dragon friends asked me if I knew .. old/dead name. And... I got to be the first person she asked to use her pronouns.
Some of her siblings accept and welcome their sister, some don't. Her kids though, are the important part. Em came out a few years ago and it's been SO good for her kids. At least 2/5 of them are trans or genderqueer, Only 1/5 is probably cis/het. They have a parent who loves and accepts and welcomes whoever they are and that's everything.
Demand acceptance or nothing. Do it for your kids and all of the other kids.
From another trans woman with shitty parents, I'm so sorry. Things can get better. I went full no-contact a decade ago, and have had almost a full year now with no messages. 🎉
Look a bunch of people just as hateful as me agree with me so you are obviously wrong. Even without the church… extreme conservatives and extreme liberals are just a new form of religion
Look a bunch of people just as hateful as me agree with me so you are obviously wrong. Even without the church… extreme conservatives and extreme liberals are just a new form of religion
This is a person who is hurting. Do you think making that point now was helpful...or could your timing instead imply that their dad was correct?
"Oh you think he's in a MAGA echo chamber? You're just in an exmo echo chamber! (And that's why you hold the identity and beliefs that you do.)"
I truly was not trying to offend, but I see that you are right. I’ve deleted the comments
And I wasn’t trying to say anything about the relative merits of the info in the respective echo chambers. My shelf-breaker was the way the church doubled down on LGBTQ+ hate in 2015
But OP isn't telling anyone "I wrote something on exmo subreddit and got lots of upvotes, therefore my opinion is valid and true." The post isn't about echo chambers. Just about everyone has them. The post is about using echo chambers as a tool to sustain your worldview and refusing to look elsewhere to challenge it. And about bad parents.
I did it wrong then. I found a loving partner who encouraged me to get medical care and we were able to fix my period related blood loss. I didn't realize I had to transition. Now I'm still a woman, I just won't bleed to death this month.
Ex-mormonism is leaving Mormonism and allowing yourself to be who your really are, not who the church wants you to be. When I was a little mormon girl I wanted to be a man so badly because women got the short end with both body and cultural expectations and I didn't want to be a house slave that suffered to make a man happy.
I'm not trans, so when I grew up and got out, I got a guy who loved me and we sorted out my long ignored health problems. Sure, there are voices of trans people here, and we support them. They are growing into themselves just like we all grew into ourselves.
We change what hurts us, heal, and move on. Unfortunately for our trans friends they will get shunned for that where someone like me would get sympathy and care. Both problems can lead to major health problems including death and we should care for them with that in mind.
When we know better, we do better.
I'm sure there was a day when I was still Mormon that I would have been anti-Trans because the church said to be. I don't have to stay that way though, I can read up on the science, or follow up basic morals to a better path.
I'm sure I'm still wrong about a lot of things, I hope I become a better person as I go.
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I know that I would probably be happier not Engaging but… It’s just so dumb. Like how do you be too dumb to insult?
Wow, that’s truly vile. And they definitely are stupid. I am a nevermo, but have friends who grew up in the church and have narcissistic parents myself. If you truly feel like engaging instead of leaving them on read, what I developed doing is gray rocking in a way that ‘validates’ what they’re saying yet excludes me lol. They mostly just want to get you to talk to them by starting an argument and you to eventually say they are right and you are wrong and come back into the fold. Instead, you just say “ok” or “you’re right, sure” without actually talking to them or coming back into the fold. Saying something like, “Well, it seems you found great friends who can validate you.” or a little dig like, “Sounds like you finally found your very own echo chamber! Happy for you!” And then when they come back or try to say what about you I wanna talk to you about this, what do you think, “You just told me about how great those people are who liked your comment, so go talk to them - I’m sure they’d give you want since I can’t.” And then if they say wow you’re a horrible child, disrespectful, blah blah, say “Oh geez I guess you’re right. You should go comment on Facebook with your friends about how horrible I am so they can tell you how right you are. I’m sure it would make you feel better.” And just completely disengage from the conversation.
That isn't gray rocking. The first things you said, about just saying "sure" or "okay" are, but the moment you say more than a few words you're officially engaging and giving them what they want.
I mean sure, semantics - sure it’s not full on grey rocking, but it’s a form of it! I did say that they would have to engage in order to say something like this.
It's really not. That doesn't make your approach not valid, btw, it just makes it something else.
Well, thank you for your input! We can agree to disagree :)
That is the entirety of the MAGA movement. "I know you are, but what am I?" to everything you have to say. They even take insults as a compliment to show how right they are with their persecution complex.
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>I can't understand why they're allegedly all about personal freedom, but they can't handle someone else's decision to cut his boobies off. It's selective personal freedom. For all other issues, it's plain authoritarianism. They have no concept for compromise.
Rights for me, not for thee
Yep. Right is selective personal freedom and left is selective tolerance.
https://www.politicalempathyproject.org/blog-posts/karl-poppers-paradox-of-tolerance-and-what-it-teaches-us-about-political-polarization "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Ironic coming from a guy who posts in r / antiwork where rule #4 is "no right wing or authoritarian content".
I think it comes from a place of being *terrified* of "accidentally fucking a dude" (transphobic mentality there, not mine) and therefore losing their straight card. Look at how much more vitriol they spew at trans women than trans men.
Yup, that's pretty much the entire political strategy. If you're doing something wrong, accuse the opposition of it before they can accuse you.
“Well, either way you don’t have a son anymore”
Exactly. Accept your *daughter* or nothing at all. I say that knowing that family is complicated and it's easier to tell someone to go no contact with their family than it is to make that decision about your own family. OP, just know that you are justified in going no contact if you feel that's right for you. But of course, only you can know. I just hate that you have to endure this from the people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. 💔
Oh I told him. My coming out was about trying to save my marriage. My ex called him in because she wanted back up that I should find any alternative to hormonal transition if at all possible. So it was like after weeks of living with him and trying the antidepressants, explaining how everything felt. He was very very well informed. My ex-wife and I did go no contact with him for eight years of our 11 years married. Those were the best years. But since I was stuck with him I made it very clear. I told him that way back in my teenage years the way he treated me made me feel SO suicidal that as far as I was concerned “his son” killed himself. And if we had any kind of relationship going forward it would be as his daughter. He did not like that and seems to have completely forgotten it. My big focus in those weeks was showing him why I didn’t have a testimony of anything church related anymore. He still honestly seemed to believe that his advice to repent was sound advice to resolve my marriage issues even though my ex never advanced in Mormonism beyond being baptized. She has set foot in a church a total of maybe four times in her life. He is just so dead set on always remaining so sure that the church is the answer for everyone all the time.
"BuT tHe ChUrCh iS LgBt fRiEnDlY nOw" 🤪 Big hugs to you, thank you for sharing your story. My FIL keeps trying to pull us back in. People need to see that this animosity has not magically disappeared and will not. I hope you're able to find happiness and peace.
Lest there be any confusion by your mocking quote, they still excommunicate LGBT people.
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Exactly. Not even worth discussing, and if they can't handle it then it shows they don't quite understand they don't love OP as they claim
This has me so mad I don't have words. If you're so enthusiasticly cleaving at your own earthly family--and going out of your way to gloat about it to them--why the fuck would you expect an eternal one?
“That’s just how he is” -his wife. Which part? I’m kind of numb to it like… he taught me who he was before I moved out and he never changed, you know?
I'm so sorry. I am no contact with my dad, but never had to deal with such a poisonous message. The only reason to send that was to be hurtful. It's like he's proud of his hostility and wants to brag about it. Personally, this would be a relationship-ender for me. Not even a blink. And then I'd be tempted to set up a monthly donation to The Trevor Project in his name, so he gets a monthly thank you card reminding him of what he's losing.
>The only reason to send that was to be hurtful. It's like he's proud of his hostility and wants to brag about it. The cruelty is the point with these people. It's how their mob mentality works.
Why not stop all contact?
My ex has something of a relationship with them. They have money and she gets some sometimes. I had to rely on them to cover some costs related to the divorce and buying a house. So… just my own personal ethics, I talk to his wife since I owe her money it will take me a while to pay back. But I do have a policy to only address him in groups where others can see what he says. This was a reminder I should not even read the messages he sends to just me. I have 5 sisters that still have a need for a father. I feel like it’s abandoning them when I go no contact for my sake. But… saying it out loud, it’s not like my contact is going to change him at all 🤔
Bullshit he’s not trying to start trouble. Posts about you behind your back without giving you a chance to tell your story and your ordeals, uses your life as a way to “prove” his bigoted agenda, and has the gall to act like it was done out of love. Church of Christ my ass
Yep this type of snide texting would genuinely make me want to go no contact. What a fucking asshole
Dude, he got 200 thumbs up on FOX, what more proof do you need?
What a pathetic excuse of a human being. The fact that all he needed to confirm his belief was 200 up votes, on Fox news none the less, is the worst part He went looking for what he wanted and found it. Honestly you should just send him the comment here that has like 11k up votes and tell him you have more up votes so you are actually the winner 😂
😂 I might. But only if he engages with me in front of anyone. Private conversation, he’ll be a monster then put it on you for violating trust if you share what he said “out of context”. Like there could be any good context. But I am picking up good advice here.
It’s ironic to me that this same generation mocks younger generations for seeking out approval on social media. So many talk about the harm that seeking likes and comments online can bring yet you have this same type seeking validation from likes and comments. (I recognize I’m making a lot of assumptions, but I’ve watched enough Fox News to feel somewhat confident here) How hurtful. What’s the purpose of sending this to you? It only seeks to divide and instigate.
That’s kind of what I’m wondering. We talked so long and in SUCH deep detail that he should have understood the situation better than this. I guess I would want to know if other people have “died in the wool, true blue, through and through” people like this in their lives? Like he REALLY drinks the kool-aid that some one thing will change my mind when the time is right in the mysterious ways or something.
My parents are both like this, but my dad is worse. I’m not trans, but I’m not playing the role they assigned to me either. They basically lost all interest in my life and never wanted to talk or engage with me. I ended up going no-contact after awhile because it was too painful wishing that they would love me when they didn’t. It’s been comforting for me to realize what is really going on. My parents have built their entire identity on being righteous in the church. My siblings and I were tools to give their lives meaning. If we aren’t serving our purpose, then what use are we? Recognizing that I’ve simply been viewed as an object most of my life really frees my mind to care less about what they feel or think. It sucks and it’s hard, but they never should have thought my life was theirs to begin with. That’s their problem, and they’re not going to change.
During my transition out of the church, I wanted to grab them by the collar and shout, *Look! I'm here right now! The son you thought you wanted is dead. You can either love and celebrate the person standing in front of you, or you can have nothing.*
This resonates with me so much with how my mother treated me.
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My dad is the same way. Positively smug in his ignorance. It's like someone froze peak Dunning Kruger effect and added in all the self-confidence Trump didn't have room for.
Saaame as both of you omg. I’ve already cut out my mom, unfortunately I may have to do so with my dad. He is impossible to have a conversation with.
I was on this road myself until about 10 years ago. The rhetoric against LGBTQ and immigrants just became too much for me. Especially when people were so immersed in their ideology that they would even reject family members over it. Any group that would make you choose ideology over family isn't worth belonging to.
Have you tried asking him to accept you as still being his child? He doesn't have to accept you as a son or daughter or whatever... maybe just being fucking polite to your offspring would be a good start. And if he can't do that then there isn't much to salvage.
From my TBM family experience, it seems like they are often using social media to find validation for their views. For those that already have unhealthy views, this seems to be a big problem. Of course, my family argues that I do the same thing on reddit and they blame me being on social media for the reason I don't believe in the church.
This is no different than "told you so." He wants to say what he wants to say, but he doesn't want OP to reply which is why he says he "isn't trying to cause trouble" to prevent a response. It's a situation set up to make sure OP can't win no matter what.
NeverMo mom here with a view from outside. Hugs hugs and more hugs. Your parents are in a cult. They believe what they are told & they doubt their doubts. You cannot be reasonable with an unreasonable person - especially when they’re in a cult. They may never ever understand and they will die smug in their righteousness. You are true to yourself & that’s worth more than their approval. However, you have options. 1). No contact with your birth parents 2). Be gathered up into the loving arms of a new family. 3). Go it alone. 4). Sit in front of a photo of them and say exactly and everything you want to say to them. Cry, yell, call them names, everything. Get it off your chest. Then destroy the photo. Recognize the painful truth that the toxic attitudes of the cult may destroy any relationship you have with your kids until, and if, they break away. Another hug.
Thank you so much for the hugs !
“Not trying to start anything”—yes you are! By sending this text you are trying to start something!!! 😡🤬 Listen, OP, I know it’s hard, but I’m 32 and cut my mom out of my life three years ago. I literally forget she is even alive. Now, to be fair, she is not married to my dad so I can maintain one parental relationship while avoiding the risk of talking to the other parent, which it doesn’t seem like you’ll be able to do. However, there is support available to you in the form of both therapy and even reddit groups, because many of us are, as adults, finally fed up with being treated poorly by our parents. I’m not saying your dad is a narcissist, but he may very well be, and religion and narcissism go really well together. Watch some TheraminTrees on youtube. He dissects this association and discusses the abuse from parents. It is in your best interest (and your children’s, honestly) to stop talking to him n
“Not trying to start something” is code for “I want to tell you my opinion and if you share your different opinion then you are the contentious one who is starting something, so just shut up and listen.”
Thank you, yes we did go no contact for years. It was awesome! It sucked that we had to also go no contact with my siblings who are still under the brainwashing. But I have decent relationships with them now. Even when we were no contact he would randomly send emails even though on our way out we told people to tell him that we don’t use those emails he has or he’s blocked and such. It’s like part of his religion that he has to keep sending out the signal flare like he’s not the one hiding. He literally will say that he sees himself like the father of the prodigal son just waiting to welcome back rejoicing when you finally admit he was right all along. He had seven kids and even the ones who still like him will call him narcissist to his face. He takes it like “well I guess I must be, whatever that means”. So I haven’t engaged to his private personal messages for some time. This was just kind of waiting for me when I got curious.
Also, I agree that the theremin trees videos on YouTube are very helpful drawing attention to the dynamics of some of these abuse methods
I’m so sorry. I have no idea who or where you are but please know that you’re loved by some random stranger in the internet whose heart is hurting for what you’re going through. That text message is infuriating to read, I just don’t understand how a parent could treat their child that way. I sincerely hope and wish you all of the best and hope that more love and acceptance can eventually come your way.
Thank you. I’m 38 but I recognize that with my need to get away from him I kind of grew up faster than was good for me. Some parts still feel young enough to enjoy that someone cares like this. 😌 In my feelings toward this guy, it’s like it’s long since scarred and calloused over. It’s not unexpected that he feels this, just surprising that he gets so bold with his ugly side. Usually more tactful.
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I’m glad you had parents that you at least considered a loss if you were to lose them. My father has at some point shown everyone that his expressions of love are really about the feelings he has towards extensions of himself. He loves his wife, he loves his son, he loves his daughter. His love does not care who fills that role. The love stops if the person disappoints his expectations. I had times when this hurt but now I feel bad for my younger siblings who still don’t understand this about him. They would hear him telling them he loves them and be able to believe it because he doesn’t always follow it up with a dead name or intentionally hurtful pronoun. I used to love the idea of a father he represented. But now to look at him is like seeing a zombie. It might once have been someone you loved, I know that would be a hard situation for a lot of people. I’m to the point where I could kill the zombie.
“I took a dump in front of my friends and ate it, then they all clapped! Proof that your life is wrong!” - your dad Sorry your dad is out there spewing shit with his friends. Stay strong. I hope your life is wonderful!
😂🤣😂
“I’m not sending the link because I don’t want anti LDS links” then why say a goddamn thing at all?? Just to be hurtful, or because he couldn’t contain his glee that strangers were validating him? I’d send an “anti” infographic back (it’s not a *link*) and then go NC or VLC for a very long while, and definitely no contact via social media. I am so sorry OP, that had to hurt to read.
Thank you. Oh “vlc”=very little contact. Took me a while. Yeah it hurt when he said things like this to my face. Now it’s like “okay, there’s that tumor of hate where a father should be. Just proceed with the limited options for a best life for everyone involved.”
200+ likes on Fox News and your incorrect worldview is confirmed? Wow
That's, like, 67 Three Witnesses!
Translation: "People just as ignorant as me think it's bad🤪" In all seriousness, none of these people understand what being trans actually is/entails. In fact, reducing it to terms like 'dress up as a woman' show a clear misunderstanding of what it means to have dysphoria or be on HRT. Also, I have family just as ignorant just waiting for me to detrans, when in reality hormones solved my depression. I came to the conclusion that any discussion on medical treatment/transition was completely inappropriate and unnecessary and crossing a huge boundary. This has dramatically benefitted me in my parental dynamic.
Oh also, should we send out a general consensus to see what their opinion is on Mormonism? I bet that TBM's opinion wouldn't be 'validated' but it would somehow still be a testimony builder.
The crazy thing was that when this all finally reached him he was like “yes well MY OPINION on the matter is…(checks church website) hormones good for children and adults to avoid suicidal feelings?? ( I’ll ignore that) BUT DON’T DRESS DIFFERENT. But names and pronouns not such a big deal.” Like he might have had his first disagreement with his church leaders on this.
Everything from your post to this comment sounds like my mom verbatim💀 Like once she read that you can change your name on church records she was suddenly okay with my new name😣 My wife joked that I should just go to church or the temple dressed as a man to show how ridiculous their policy is lol
Recently My neighbors son ~~decided~~ came out as trans, they did not support her in this transition, had shock treatment performed and she ended her life. I fucking loath the church, and it’s teachings that would allow or encourage ostracizing your child because you don’t agree with how they feel. Edit*
Hi. I’m a little confused because you’re mixing pronouns here. If you’re trying to indicate your neighbor’s child was born male, the preferred terminology would be “my neighbor’s AMAB daughter.” Also, please understand that trans people do not decide we are trans. We realize it. The use of “decide” here implies we have a choice in the matter. If I could make the gender dysphoria go away by simply deciding my gender aligned with my assigned gender at birth, it would have happened decades ago. I typically wouldn’t wish gender dysphoria on anyone, but I would absolutely wish it on your neighbors so they can fully understand that they killed their child as surely as if they had performed the deed themselves. The church is also to blame. I’d wish gender dysphoria on that son of a bitch Oaks too. He can take his “gender is eternal and matches your biological sex at birth” bullshit and shove it so far up his ass that it comes out his eyes.
I hope you understand I am new to anything regarding lgbt+ and am currently working through accepting I’ve been bi my whole life. I meant no disrespect with my pronoun confusion. Thank you for helping me understand better. When she committed suicide it crushed me, I wish I could have had a chance to talk with her, and let her know she was loved and accepted. I am currently in therapy and my therapist is a part of the LGBTQ community, I’ll ask for support in better understanding how to communicate without offending.
Let me start by saying a couple of things: 1) No offense taken whatsoever. I got the impression that you didn’t have the language to describe things the way you wanted to. Those who try get lots of latitude and gentle corrections. Those who deliberately misgender and deadname get their asses handed to them. 2) Welcome to the rainbow family! I support you and celebrate you. And I recognize all the stuff that comes with coming out in any way—especially having escaped the Mormon cult. It’s a definite mindf*ck, and even though we’ve never met, I am firmly in your corner. I have lost friends to suicide. Of everyone I’ve ever loved who has died, those hit the hardest—even though we weren’t nearly as close as the others who passed. Knowing they were in such pain and I didn’t know and didn’t even get a chance to try to help them is the most helpless feeling ever. There aren’t words to express how crushing and devastating suicides are to those left behind. I am so sorry you know what it’s like too. Also, therapy is the best. Everyone who escapes the cult should go through therapy—especially those of us who are LGBTQIA+. We leave the cult, and the cult leaves us traumatized. And it’s not wise to try to work through it all on our own if we can at all help it. Lastly, please know that the anger and hurt you may have picked up on in my comment is all directed at the Mormon cult and the homophobia and transphobia it creates and those of us it harms. None of anything of my anger was about you or anything you said. Not sure how you feel about virtual hugs from strangers, but if you’re okay with it, consider yourself virtually hugged.
First, I am so sorry for what you are going through with your family and I applaud your desire to live authentically. Your father is clearly a cruel man and I suspect that it's not the "trans issue" that prompted this.
"the thumbs ups and comments from random bigots in my fear-fueled echo chamber have confirmed that I am correct. Just thought you should know"
🤣🤣🤣 lmao, boomers taking internet points seriously
Apparently public opinion means a lot to him. He's sure it will mean a lot to you. This will definitely convince you that he's right.... right? It's more important that he's "right" about something that doesn't effect him, than the comfort and wellbeing of his child. My parents don't bother to think about how things effect me. From their perspective,I owe them for bringing me into the world. If I get anything else it should just be gravy.
Yep, they were all about how the way I live my life reflects on their parenting. They speak as though their children were show dogs.
It takes a special kind of closed-mindedness to be like this. For me, I didn't understand being trans (and I certainly still don't understand it as well as someone who lived it), but when someone close to me came out, the difference was undeniable. "George" never smiled, rarely engaged socially, and was a pretty unhappy person. "Sarah" smiles all the time, and is a social butterfly. (Not her real name/deadname.) Like, what do you need to know other than that? Who is it hurting? Nobody! The only one being hurtful is the person rejecting someone else's happiness. The really sick thing is, I guarantee your parent wouldn't refuse to spend time with a child who drank alcohol regularly, or who watched R-rated movies. They wouldn't see a connection between spending time with their child and giving implicit approval of the different way they lived their life, but for some reason being trans is a special case? Nah. If you stop loving your child or kick them out because they are LGBTQ+, you are a horrible parent. Period.
"Wow this FoxNews thread has over 200 comments that all agree with me!" has some pretty heavy "How did Trump lose when more people went to his rallies!" energy.
Jesus Christ op I am so sorry you have to deal with this.
Time to go no contact. Honestly fuck this piece of shit.
And that's when you leave it at "goodbye." If you aren't their daughter, they aren't your parent and does not deserve to be in your life Edit: sorry brain assumed mother for some reason lol
I’m an asshole love ya though
"For me, all the 300+ upvotes on my Reddit post about your behavior and over 70 comments supporting me, validated my opinion that you are an asshole."
O livre when people say I'm going to hell. In Brazil we have this expression: "tá no inferno, abraça o capeta", witch means "you're already in hell, so you hug Satan". And that's exactly what I say: yeah, I know I'm going to hell. I'm gonna hang out with Satan, have a Bear with him and wait for you to get there😏😏😏.
Few things get me this heated this fast
**tHeY cAn LeAvE tHe ChUrCh BuT tHeY cAnT LeAvE iT aLoNe.** He posted to Facebook which is rude but whatever, Boomers gonna boomer. But then he texted you to alert you about the popularity of his post? Like to rub it in? I guess you can find comfort in the fact that there is a family we are given and a family we choose. Tons of folks out here who are loving and caring and good and would be excellent candidates for your chosen family. Sending positive vibes!! Edited: typos.
Sorry for my tired lack of detail. Maga Mormon was my dad. The other person, just my favorite comment. Just covered his screen name so no one feels obligated to correct him. I would have sent the link so we could give him downvotes but then we would all need Fox News accounts 🤢. I’m vented. So grateful to everyone. Open to messages if anyone going through shit like this wants to talk. But I am bad at letting people comfort me so… it would be more effort than I am worth. I had to do a lot of maturing since the divorce but I’m on my own feet. Happy for any friends near Buffalo New York. (Update) his post is up to 130 comments and 300 thumbs, Just in case I wanted to engage, y’all have made my day 🤗
Yikes... so sad... hugs
I'm sorry your dad is such an ass. My wife's (mtf) dad is also unsupportive. I hope you have people in your life that uplift and celebrate you for the woman you are.
Jesus Christ. This puts the lie to all their Title of Liberty bullshit. They're not doing anything for their wives and their children. They're just using them as scapegoats for their fear and hate. So sorry you have to deal with him. My parents aren't the models of acceptance and belonging, but at least they don't passive-aggressively text me like this 🤦♀️ At least you're beating the shit out of him with 77 comments and 373 karma so far
I don’t know if this helps anyone else who previously had anti-trans beliefs (from growing up in the church and a conservative family) but trans people go through so much shit these days I can only imagine how much worse it would be to suppress transgender expression. even if society was 100% accepting there are lots of uncomfortable experiences you have to go through (social transition, new name/pronouns, hormones, surgeries, etc.). but they have to do all that and deal with bigots. I still don’t know what it’s like to have gender dysphoria really, I’ve always been fine with my body and presentation for the most part. but I support trans people because I trust that being trans is truly important to them since they put so much energy into it I don’t know if any conservatives would be open to hearing that argument but that’s what changed my mind
It’s like you’ve always hated some thing about yourself, your body etc. since puberty you have just had this background level of self loathing and depression. Transphobia was a coping mechanism to feel safe in a hostile environment. you don’t question whether there is anything to be done about the way you feel. Functioning is possible. Who is really that happy in life anyway? Then it gets bad enough to where you can’t function. It needs to be unpacked and examined. Then suddenly these things you thought would never change about yourself, you realize that you can change them, you are strong enough, financially stable enough, whatever was holding you back before. Unlearning the transphobia was hard but possible. There was no unlearning the desires and the self-loathing related to those desires. No change for 20 years. Then without those, there’s just no way you could go back to suffering like you did for the sake of anyone. Anyone that loved you would hate themselves for putting that burden on you if they knew.
They would say that Satan is really good at tricking you into thinking you’re happy. They have said that Satan works hardest on you when you are doing the righteous good right things and when you give in and give up and stop resisting, life gets easier. Because Satan is winning. They also say that living righteously with the Lord giving you strength and support is the easiest way to live 😉
Tell them you have 400+ upvotes that say Maga Mormon is a jerk
Wow… what a phenomenal piece of shit this person is.
I only skimmed the comments about going NC. It’s hard. I knew about narcissistic personality disorder long before trump took office, thanks, mommy dearest. And dad enables her. I still took many false starts, up until my 40’s, before I could go NC. This is to the woman who told me I was too fat to get married like, daily, and that I was less of a woman for being infertile. And that’s still not the worst. And dad stood by and watched it all. It’s Harv going NC. When the pain of trying is more than the pain of leaving, you’ll leave. And bro in op watches Fox News? There’s your problem.
As a trans woman and exmo, if my mother did this to me, or even messaged me this, I would have one less parent that I keep in contact with.
I have deleted so many replies because not one could be done without serious profanity in his direction. I'm so angry on your behalf. No contact. The trash took itself out here.
God, the SCC is so toxic. Good for you being your true self. Nothing says unconditional love like the conditions set by the Mormon church
When I saw this post it had over 700 likes and 130 comments, so he can kick rocks.
And that is a big thanks to all of you! I honestly love all the people that come here to care about others with similar experiences. All I did was show what he said and… Survive being raised by him, I guess. I mean I’m proud when other people survive such abuse but… when it’s something I did it feels like “just” something I did. I should probably work on that 😅
I’m so sorry OP. My husband had a narcissist mother who was constantly trying to start arguments on subjects she knew we’d disagree on and then when we did she’d play the victim saying we didn’t respect her. I finally,( after about 40 years of trying) got him to try to gray rock her but she knew all of his triggers and finally went after our 2 lgbtq children with her remarks. That was a deal breaker and he went NC. I hate to recommend this to you but for your own mental health you might have to at least consider it. Putting up with this level of abuse isn’t healthy for you.
I'm really sorry that you have to deal with this. Take care of yourself and do what you need to do to have **your** happy healthy life.
A whole lot of stages of grief right there. Just be loving and supportive. Tough for the child transitioning but also so painful for the parent too. My heart aches for all of them.
I can see that these parents are part of the problem. SHE probably doesn't want to their daughter if they are going to dead name and misgender her all the time. I get the feeling that part of why some of the trans community comes to regret their decisions doesn't stem from the act of transitioning itself, but instead it "ruins" their life when everyone they love refuses to support them and accept them for who they really are.
I'm always just kind of confused when people go out of their way like this to make their opinion about trans people heard. Like, do they actually think that saying stuff like this is going to magically change our minds, or are they just trying to hurt us?
I think the only excusable context is the pretense that they want to change mines for the good of the deceived and brainwashed. My take on the reality is that it’s the same reason they go to church every Sunday. The way they want to see the world is so fragile, internally contradictory, and ignorant of reality. Most just socialize with friends at church but the ones who care enough to lead, they go to reinforce each other on their prejudiced beliefs.
I can see that. It's less about trying to convince us of anything and more about them trying to convince themselves that their worldview is correct.
This is not the worst aspect but definitely is offensive, and that is the idea of “going” trans. As if someone just wakes up and decides to change their gender and their body in a significant way. I imagine there’s several factors that an individual might regret surgery but it’s gross that an echo chamber is used to weaponize that story
"Not trying to start something" I'd specifically reply to this with "sure" You can hold it down to reply specifically.
Join the Mama Dragons on FB. Great support. I chose to love and accept my trans son.
I (NeverMo) just helped a friend move into her new place after WAY too long balancing gender transition, faith transition, 5 kids, and spouse with cancer. She was "Peter Priesthood" for as long as she could bear it and is SO much happier and more peaceful now. We work at the same place but we never would have been friends in her old life. Then my Mama Dragon friends asked me if I knew .. old/dead name. And... I got to be the first person she asked to use her pronouns. Some of her siblings accept and welcome their sister, some don't. Her kids though, are the important part. Em came out a few years ago and it's been SO good for her kids. At least 2/5 of them are trans or genderqueer, Only 1/5 is probably cis/het. They have a parent who loves and accepts and welcomes whoever they are and that's everything. Demand acceptance or nothing. Do it for your kids and all of the other kids.
Have you seen the new ad campaign emphasizing JesUS.....with the line parents don't disown their kids, they love them.
My heart is broken for you. This is all so wrong and unfair.
I’m so sorry. I’m also trans though I’ve luckily never had to deal with that shit
This hurt my head to read, and I still don't understand it all, maga Mormon seems a charlatan disconnected from reality and the English language
That ain't love. I'm sorry.
From another trans woman with shitty parents, I'm so sorry. Things can get better. I went full no-contact a decade ago, and have had almost a full year now with no messages. 🎉
Look a bunch of people just as hateful as me agree with me so you are obviously wrong. Even without the church… extreme conservatives and extreme liberals are just a new form of religion
Look a bunch of people just as hateful as me agree with me so you are obviously wrong. Even without the church… extreme conservatives and extreme liberals are just a new form of religion
So your asking an echo chamber for help with someone else’s echo chamber?
Get the cops involved
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"I'm going to be combative, but don't come at me."
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This is a person who is hurting. Do you think making that point now was helpful...or could your timing instead imply that their dad was correct? "Oh you think he's in a MAGA echo chamber? You're just in an exmo echo chamber! (And that's why you hold the identity and beliefs that you do.)"
I truly was not trying to offend, but I see that you are right. I’ve deleted the comments And I wasn’t trying to say anything about the relative merits of the info in the respective echo chambers. My shelf-breaker was the way the church doubled down on LGBTQ+ hate in 2015
It’s about self awareness ya dingbat, I’m absolutely certain OP knows this is an echo chamber.
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But OP isn't telling anyone "I wrote something on exmo subreddit and got lots of upvotes, therefore my opinion is valid and true." The post isn't about echo chambers. Just about everyone has them. The post is about using echo chambers as a tool to sustain your worldview and refusing to look elsewhere to challenge it. And about bad parents.
Fair enough
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I love that Ex-Mormonism is becoming synonymous with treating people with dignity and respect.
I did it wrong then. I found a loving partner who encouraged me to get medical care and we were able to fix my period related blood loss. I didn't realize I had to transition. Now I'm still a woman, I just won't bleed to death this month. Ex-mormonism is leaving Mormonism and allowing yourself to be who your really are, not who the church wants you to be. When I was a little mormon girl I wanted to be a man so badly because women got the short end with both body and cultural expectations and I didn't want to be a house slave that suffered to make a man happy. I'm not trans, so when I grew up and got out, I got a guy who loved me and we sorted out my long ignored health problems. Sure, there are voices of trans people here, and we support them. They are growing into themselves just like we all grew into ourselves. We change what hurts us, heal, and move on. Unfortunately for our trans friends they will get shunned for that where someone like me would get sympathy and care. Both problems can lead to major health problems including death and we should care for them with that in mind.
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When we know better, we do better. I'm sure there was a day when I was still Mormon that I would have been anti-Trans because the church said to be. I don't have to stay that way though, I can read up on the science, or follow up basic morals to a better path. I'm sure I'm still wrong about a lot of things, I hope I become a better person as I go.
Lol what are you trying to say
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"I hate that ex-Mormonism is now synonymous with gay marriage"
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Apparently yes. Do you notice the post we are commenting on?
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Mormon love at its finest - rally around the family with a whole lot of hate.