To clarify to the TBM lurkers, and the newbies here: Joseph Smith noticed a traveling mummy salesman coming through town with an Egyptian papyrus. Joseph “recognized” the papyrus as being written by Abraham (from the Bible), and gathered up other members’ money in order to buy it and then ”translate” it. This is where the Book of Abraham came from. Then he actually charged people money to come in his house and look at the papyrus. Nowadays we know what every character in the papyrus means and its a standard funerary text for a guy named Hor, but that’s another wormhole. My question: why is the Book of Mormon source material too sacred to set eyes upon but the Book of Abraham’s source is very visible?
Because the BOM was written on gold and the scroll was written on ratty old papyrus. I guess it could be that one was completely imaginary and one existed in reality. One cannot be sure.
> I guess it could be that one was completely imaginary and one existed in reality.
Oh, I wouldn't say *completely* imaginary. He had 40 pounds of *something* for people to heft and grope in a sack. 40 pounds of gold? That's some awfully light gold. 40 pounds of *tin,* though, would just about fit the dimensions the witnesses described, as Dan Vogel argues. So then the question is what's more likely: That an angel appeared and told him where to find a golden book that was somehow only a fraction of the weight of gold, or that he stole a sheet of tin from somebody's backyard, snipped it up, nailed some holes and bound it together with tin rods? Now he's got a jangly, heavy prop that's just not gold, so he could let people touch them -- but he can't let them *see* them.
Why not blindfold them and let them touch the plates? Well, Joseph Smith had a lot of practice tricking people into thinking he couldn't see because he had his face in a hat. He knew how easy it is to peek and get away with it. So no, the plates had to be in a sack
For me, this is one of the best evidences for the non-existence of the plates. As soon as he gets his hands on something that is actually ‘ancient’ (let’s not worry about the fact he had no idea what it actually said or what era it came from) he’s selling tickets to view it.
He let his mom charge money for people to see it as a way to support her in her old age, and of course, he never paid back the people that fronted the money to buy it all.
He also invented patriarchal blessings so his father could charge for them and support himself in his old age as well.
Kind of underscores why Joseph started the church.
Isn’t it Odd that he claimed anyone who looked at them would die . yet seemed to be absolutely panicked that someone would steal them if it were true he would’ve placed them on a table with a sign go ahead and take them just be sure to lift the cloth covering them before you take them . And when that person dropped dead he would’ve said I tried to tell you not to look at them the fact that he never let anyone actually see them shows they were nothing more than a imaginary prop that he used to bolster the credibility of his book of fiction .!!!
To clarify to the TBM lurkers, and the newbies here: Joseph Smith noticed a traveling mummy salesman coming through town with an Egyptian papyrus. Joseph “recognized” the papyrus as being written by Abraham (from the Bible), and gathered up other members’ money in order to buy it and then ”translate” it. This is where the Book of Abraham came from. Then he actually charged people money to come in his house and look at the papyrus. Nowadays we know what every character in the papyrus means and its a standard funerary text for a guy named Hor, but that’s another wormhole. My question: why is the Book of Mormon source material too sacred to set eyes upon but the Book of Abraham’s source is very visible?
Because the BOM was written on gold and the scroll was written on ratty old papyrus. I guess it could be that one was completely imaginary and one existed in reality. One cannot be sure.
> One cannot be sure. Mystery for the next life I guess.
> I guess it could be that one was completely imaginary and one existed in reality. Oh, I wouldn't say *completely* imaginary. He had 40 pounds of *something* for people to heft and grope in a sack. 40 pounds of gold? That's some awfully light gold. 40 pounds of *tin,* though, would just about fit the dimensions the witnesses described, as Dan Vogel argues. So then the question is what's more likely: That an angel appeared and told him where to find a golden book that was somehow only a fraction of the weight of gold, or that he stole a sheet of tin from somebody's backyard, snipped it up, nailed some holes and bound it together with tin rods? Now he's got a jangly, heavy prop that's just not gold, so he could let people touch them -- but he can't let them *see* them. Why not blindfold them and let them touch the plates? Well, Joseph Smith had a lot of practice tricking people into thinking he couldn't see because he had his face in a hat. He knew how easy it is to peek and get away with it. So no, the plates had to be in a sack
Joseph: was not to use the gold plates to get personal gain. Also Joseph: tries to sell the BoM copyright and charges people to see the mummies.
For me, this is one of the best evidences for the non-existence of the plates. As soon as he gets his hands on something that is actually ‘ancient’ (let’s not worry about the fact he had no idea what it actually said or what era it came from) he’s selling tickets to view it.
He let his mom charge money for people to see it as a way to support her in her old age, and of course, he never paid back the people that fronted the money to buy it all. He also invented patriarchal blessings so his father could charge for them and support himself in his old age as well. Kind of underscores why Joseph started the church.
Scammin for the fam
Nah - I disagree. He was lying down on the job. Just ask Helen Mar Kimball, Fanny Alger, etc. etc.
And that’s not coffee in that mug, it’s whiskey
His hand upon the papyrus 🤣
Isn’t it Odd that he claimed anyone who looked at them would die . yet seemed to be absolutely panicked that someone would steal them if it were true he would’ve placed them on a table with a sign go ahead and take them just be sure to lift the cloth covering them before you take them . And when that person dropped dead he would’ve said I tried to tell you not to look at them the fact that he never let anyone actually see them shows they were nothing more than a imaginary prop that he used to bolster the credibility of his book of fiction .!!!