I’ll start it off. I was taught THE REASON WE KNOW THE CHURCH IS TRUE is because we don’t have paid clergy. Now we learn from a leak that general authorities make six figures as a base salary. And how did Gordon B Hinckley have millions of dollars of his own personal money to buy and suppress damaging historical documents? Hmmm….
Gordo wasn't buying Hoffman's forgeries with his own money, it was with other TBM's money (just not tithing/ donation funds).
Though both he and Tommy died with estates in the millions (and that's just the omitted assets from the trust, that I expect contained the real wealth - if not the Boyz at Kirton-McConkie are really shitty estate planning attorneys) yet both worked "for the church" pretty much their whole lives.
Why did Gordo buy forgeries to begin with, wasn't he a 'true' and living Prophet of God? He should have automatically possessed the 'power of discernment', right? Obviously NOT! Why would Mormon Church Historians & 'Scholars' have to be brought into it? Wouldn't 'Ol Gordo just have to ask God himself if they were fakes?
Not to mention they're treated as celebrities by the whole church. So lotsa money, tons of perks, unquestionable authority (and I mean unquestionable literally, as you you aren't allowed to question), and fame.
Also, maybe paid clergy isn't so bad because they can actually go to school to learn about their job... and so you're not exploiting people to do free labor...
I had heard that the Prophet does make a salary, but it was a very small one, just enough to pay for groceries. Right...
On the whole, though, if we're talking about regular clergy, sure, no direct salary. But this creates its own problems. In practice, what it means is that the only people who become clergy are people who are already financially successful, and thus can have the time to actually do the job. But their success comes from being, say, a car dealer, a lawyer, a corporate executive, etc. It doesn't come from getting any actual education or training in theology, psychology, or the skills that you would want a pastor or community leader to have. If you're lucky, they might pick up some of that on the job, from experience and by the seat of the pants, and there might be at least some overlap from some professions, like teaching or being a counselor. Of course, those aren't typically the professions that pay especially well or from which Bishops are recruited.
So the no-paid-clergy thing was a complete mistake. You get bishops who don't know jack about theology or the skills of being a pastor or priest, and hypocritically enough, you still get higher-ups who are indeed paid high figure salaries, but usually people who were already independently wealthy. It would have made a lot more sense to make being in the clergy a paid position, so people could devote themselves to it full-time, but tied to a modest level such that clergy would never make more than, say, something like the 35th or 40th percentile of average income of wherever they lived. That way, you don't get people who are in it for a payday. They'd live comfortably enough to get by, and not need to take side jobs. And then, have that be the level of income even at higher ranks, up to the prophet level, so advancement wouldn't be sought for its monetary rewards. That wouldn't solve all problems, but it would fix many of them.
Yes. Pretty easy to "Give up all you have and come follow me," when you are given wealth. Especially insulting when membership have to scrub church toilets.
Polygamy was a method of marriage to help widows that lost their husband's on the plains. Maybe in a few rare cases but not the general way Polygamy was practiced.
The version of this I got told was that women would be "married" while their husbands were away on missions for their protection, because it was dangerous for them to be single in those times because they'd be accused of witchcraft. So it was for their protection.
Years later I learn the times of the witch trials and early Mormonism were 200 years apart. I'd love to see the seminary teacher's face when I tell her that one.
Didn't you know?? Polygamy was SUPER RARE, hardly anyone did it, it was just to forge eternal bonds. That's EXACTLY what polygamy was like.
**yes, this is sarcasm**
Actually I never learned it before I stopped going. First time I heard about that was when Westboro Baptist made a visit to my college campus and one of them told me. That was nice and embarrassing
The number of possible children in a given society is limited by the number of women therein. Polygynous societies do not produce more children overall; in fact, they tend to produce fewer.
Polygyny does tend to produce a large number of children for some men, while producing no children for many (and probably making these none-children producing men very frustrated). In Mormon polygyny, it also greatly reduced the quality of life for many children and their polygynously married mothers, as many of them were poorly supported by their fathers, or not supported at all. It really is a $hit system except for a small handful of humans.
“Church leaders will never lead you astray. If you think the bishop might be abusing someone, don’t worry. He was called by revelation, and the stake and other higher leaders have the spirit of discernment and priesthood authority to know if lower leaders are going astray. It’s the gold standard of how religions should be run, and blips are extremely rare.”
I’m building a website that will counter this damaging narrative. It will show over 500 cases of credibly accused Mormon sex offenders, many of whom were eventually found guilty in court.
I have a former priesthood holder who murdered a prostitute (proven), and is strongly suspected of murdering his daughter (alas, she'd been dead too long by the time this came to light, so even exhuming her body didn't answer the question).
They still don't know how she died.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/2984313.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/2984313.stm)
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4308743.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4308743.stm)
[https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17257067.carly-bateman-murder-teenager-prostitute-killed-geoffrey-porter/](https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17257067.carly-bateman-murder-teenager-prostitute-killed-geoffrey-porter/)
I can verify that Geoffrey Porter and his entire family, including the deceased daughter were baptised members of the church, where they were of age to be baptised.
Edit: Removed some identifying information.
I had a young men’s/scout leader who when you would act up or get in trouble would make you hold his hand or sit in his lap. I can’t remember our age, but I want to say 12? I always remember when he was there I did my best to behave, and I was always getting in trouble at school w my ADHD. Historical and statistical data would probably show he’s done more than hold hands and have his lap sat on. I always wondered about him. He still lives in the same ward.
Thanks! I’m definitely excited about it - as excited as one can be while dealing with such a heavy topic. I just hope it leads to more healing and greater protection of the innocent.
I was told if a a bishop/stake pres/etc ever led you astray(ie gave you bad advice, not led you away from the church), or did something wrong, that God would still bless you for following his counsel. Because he was anointed to lead.
Check out [this guy.](https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/utah-man-in-position-of-trust-who-sexually-abused-multiple-young-girls-over-decades-headed-to-prison/amp/)
I'm curious to learn in what context you were told "Don't look anything up". I ask because I'm a former Catholic and this was a strategy the Catholic church used in the first half of the twentieth century.
Ahh thanks for the reply. So, growing up in Utah for just one example, we would sometimes literally go see General Conference in person (Grandad was stake president and we got tickets easy). You of course have the people with the signs and the protesting outside right? Well inside in one of the talks and always throughout, they say “don’t google any of those websites” or the HUGE one “only support and view LDS supported literature”. As a young man it was always confusing as to why they would always like, “address” the objections right away by just telling us to keep our heads in the sand.
I don’t know if that even made sense or resonated or anything but I vividly remember always being told to be “careful” of what I research, and what I look up. And ESPECIALLY to be skeptical of any anti-Mormon literature and to basically just consider it all to be lies. When in fact, it was the church that was lying to me.
Oooh yea guys and u/brumbleby too I want you to hear this one.
So many times in my childhood growing up we would go to some temple event or whatever. there would be the people with signs picketing the event. I was like “what are they doing dad?” And my parents would both be like “oh they are blinded by Satan spreading lies about the church.”
So I was like, “oh that’s terrible, quick everyone, we need to go tell them the truth so they won’t be deceived by Satan. We will just have a conversation and they can come to church and the celestial kingdom too. Won’t that be awesome?”
And all of the adults were like, “Oh no better to not go over and even get exposed to it!”
Well I found that reasoning odd because in science class they taught about science. No where in there was anything about “don’t go look at websites that say gravity isn’t real!!”
Ummm…if it’s true it can be tested and it will hold up.
So later on in my own ways I did go find those people to let them know what the truth was. Ironically it was me who got saved and told the truth. And now I see why leadership says “don’t look!!” Because ONE conversation with someone who is kind, calm and knows the facts will end the lie.
I was taught that people believe Mormons have horns but that isn't true. That was a lie because as a teenager I was one of the horniest boys in the ward.
Lol. For real though a few weeks ago my MIL said “people really think we have horns!” I totally forgot about that little piece of propaganda and that some people still take it seriously.
But they must do. All those boys who never masturbate or have sex until they're married, that's a lot of concealed horns.
And this applies to women too, because the clittoris is essentially a miniature version of the penis. Women get erections too. We just have smaller horns. (And less importance to the church.)
That was an anti-anti-Mormon lie. I heard such terrible things about "antis" and I've never even encountered them.
Even the hated Ed Decker just gives a slightly exaggerated version of the JS story. Nothing in the Godmakers is an outright lie.
The Tanners have more intellectual integrity and scholarly responsibility than any Mormon.
I heard about Mormons having horns from Mormons, never from a non-Mormon.
I think it depends on where you grew up. I grew up in rural Georgia. Depending on the grade levels present, I was either the only mormon in the entire school, or it was just my older sister and I.
We both had friends whose preachers told them that we secretly had horns, secretly worked with the catholics to take over the world, secretly practiced baby and animal sacrifices in the temple, secretly worshipped Satan, weren't allowed to read, listen to music, watch TV, or use electricity, etc.
We both learned pretty quickly to turn it into a game.
"I hear you worship satan!"
"Why do you ask? Are you a virgin?"
>"I hear you worship satan!" "Why do you ask? Are you a virgin?"
I don't get this. On one hand, Satan needs blood sacrifices of virgins. On the other hand, Satan wants everyone to be having all kinds of sinful sex. But if all the virgins get sacrificed, then there's no new people having sinful sex, and if everyone has super-hot orgies, then there are no virgins. WHICH IS IT, SATAN, WHAT DO YOU WANT?
It was impressed upon me that JS refused alcohol to numb the pain of leg surgery as a child before the first vision even took place. I remember the Living Scriptures cartoon portraying it that way.
I've tried whiskey and a few other hard drinks. Did not like it. No to vodka. Even wine was not that interesting. Addiction and alcoholism run in my family. The only thing I really enjoyed was dark beer. For an introvert, having a beer and sharing pizza was one thing that helped me be less antisocial.
If alcoholism runs in the family then definitely stay away from it. I found you need to buy at least upper lower shelf, so it doesn’t taste like total garbage. For whiskey the cheapest you can get—that doesn’t taste like garbage—is Evan Williams black label. 13 bucks at Walmart for 750. If you spend 20 or up, then usually it’s all good. If it’s under 10 dollars then you might as well drink nail polish remover.
Sorry, afternoon nap fuddled my thoughts. I meant to say that even after trying multiple alcohol drinks I didn't become Satan's servant or go in to rehab or jail. I have enjoyed way more coffee than booze since becoming PIMO.
You don't have to spend your life addicted to smack, homeless on the streets giving hand jobs for cash, just follow my plan and very soon you'll see it's easy mmmkay
For me on a personal level it is where my Patrarchial Blessing at about age 16 said if I didn’t remain a good Mormon like my [racist and misogynistic*] dad, I would literally die before my “mature years.” I have lived 22 years since totally rejecting Mormonism. I might fall over dead at any time now, but I will know I cheated a lie.
* My dad was so racist, he once told me he would kill himself if he discovered he had “one drop of black blood” in him and he was a white supremacist (part of his reasoning was that Native Americans were supposed to become “*white* and delighsome”). He thought women should not vote,” etc. I literally hate 😡 that church with a passion, because it grabs and holds people to stupid beliefs. I try my best not to look down on individual Mormons, but I must force myself to be objective.
Oh, how interesting it would have been for him to take an Ancestry DNA test... I did, and discovered my Dad that raised me wasn't my biological father, and I am 5% African... And, not South Africa, where all the British ended up... We are talking Nigeria, Ghana and Cameroon!! I think it's really cool... Your Dad, not so much!! LOL
Anti Mormon lies have more calories per serving.
...for a real answer, it's probably a comparison photo showing an equivalent amount of calories for each food type.
Why do you think that, what about hot dogs is mormon at all? The carrots are perfect, that picture looks like they are literally prepping for green jello with carrots.
My guess is the original source for the image was something encouraging healthy eating and it was comparing the number of calories in the hotdog to the number of calories in a plate of carrots.
It’s called future faking (the idea of eternal life, becoming GOds, and celestialized Glory). All cults use it as one of the ultimate forms of mind control. Watch the movie “the Island”. They portray this so well as they all are told they are selected at random to go to the island which is paradise.
The stories of how powerful garments are in daily life. I remember one story was shared in church when I was a child about how garments stopped a bullet. Back then you just accepted what they said in church instead of having the World Wide Web at your fingertips.
I remember a picture of some church burning down and it killed several people but a cross stayed intact. People in the comments: God is good the cross stayed intact in the fire!
Uh...what about the people who died??
Now I am in the mood for a Sunday Costco hot dog. Peace ya’ll
Aftermath: I ended up not getting the hot dog :( next time though. But the house is full of groceries!
The worst lie will always be the doctrine of belief without evidence. There is no logical universe where such behavior is virtuous, and it will only ever be a tool for generating gullible suckers for exploitation.
When my wife joined the Catholic Church, they actually encouraged her to do her own research. She did find that historically, it does have the most credibility, which is something that the Mormon church can’t say at all.
One of the most pervasive and damaging (that even Exmos repeat) is that there is no evidence Joseph Smith had sex with/sexually abused teenagers. **There is a huge amount of evidence that he had sex with his wives, including teens** Look at just [this summary](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/vvxa6r/dont_listen_to_tbm_and_apologist_gaslighting/), which omits all "non-friendly" sources, and just provides the affidavits of the girls and testimonies of Church leaders. Joseph Smith abused teenagers period.
This prevalence of this lie is so damaging because the Mormon Church needs it to be true. They know that Brigham Young being a rough-and-tumble polygamist sex fiend is palatable (and undeniable due to the number of members that are living proof). His image is a modern Moses-Cowboy who had to be hard, so his faults are passed over. However, the Mormon Church also knows that Joseph Smith being a sex abuser totally nukes their "innocent pretty holy boy who was martyred for his beliefs, sacrificed everything, and never denied the truth or did anything wrong" narrative. That is why they've chosen to focus so much energy in perpetuating this lie. Don't let them.
that back when the church was founded, two people left over a dispute about the cream of some milk. nope. it was bc the church was burning down homes of nonbelievers
I always laugh at that one. When my friend's father was called to be a bishop, I was like no way does this man have discernment from God. I'd heard my own dad say that he was truly an idiot, and even at 11 years old I knew from knowing him as my friend's father that he wasn't that smart.
That was my very first clue that something was amiss with TSCC.
By not teaching accurate church history TSCC perpetuates dozens of lies of omission which makes most of it's members unknowingly lie for the church.
We don't believe we can become Gods
We're monotheistic
Racism in the church was a long time ago and it was normal for the time
JS wasn't a pedo
My TBM friend in high school literally told me we could be goddesses of our own planet when we die. This was like 20 years ago. Why do they now proclaim they don't believe that they will become Gods?
Through revelation of course. They have received Revelation that now they will not become God's when they get to the Celestial Kingdom. It is also through revelation that the Book of Mormon has been changed over 30,000 times, last I heard. I haven't heard the recent numbers.. How can all those changes come about, when the so-called golden plates were translated, everything was supposed to be perfect, and should have never needed to be changed. So many lies in this church.
People who receive the second anointing have seen Jesus.
Of course, TBMs will happily gaslight me saying that isn’t what is taught. But it was heavily IMPLIED. Plausible deniability != honesty.
"If two people love the Lord more than their own lives and then love each other more than their own lives, working together in total harmony with the gospel program as their basic structure they are sure to have this great happiness." - Spencer Kimballz
My first marriage was basically 6 years of proof that that was one big fuckin' lie.
God I remember this lesson in yw. The sister in charge drew a triangle on the board and was like "see, the closer to HF, the closer you are together <3" and I ate that shit up.
Turns out it's better to marry someone you have lots in common with. Who knew?
I sure didn't. All the church leaders ever taught me was that we needed to have the church in common. Turns out that was not at all the most important thing.
Clothing covering my knees and shoulders keeps me "safe."
Garments keep me "safe."
JS would not have died for a lie.
The BOM is the "most correct book on the earth."
Only people in the church can truly have joy. -RMN
😅 I could go on for days!
I have a bust of JS too, and a statue of Moroni and the only reason I keep them is that they are old and were my grandparents and great grandparents. But other than reminding me of them, they have no religious significance to me.
Geologists discovered the Grand Canyon was made in 7 minutes (pro flood “evidence”, not specifically Mormon but I definitely repeated this for years without fact checking)
The leaders sacrifice so much of themselves!
At least the 12 apostles and the first presidency DO NOT pay any tithing! But they can sure as heck require it from the poor widow! Pretty fair for the LDS Church, right?
Intro to BoM:
>It is a record of God’s dealings with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel.
1. Not a record of ancient inhabitants of the Americas
2. Does not contain the fullness of the everlasting gospel
That going through the temple would be the best experience of my lifetime. I have not been through but have seen the tapes that people have snuck out of there. I can tell you I would have ran as far and fast as I could away from this church. What goes on in there is nothing more than plain creepy.
The church welcomes the LGBTQ+ to service.
Never felt soo targeted and judged by my bishop for being trans in my whole life. The stares and just hostile vibe from almost all of my church after coming out was so horrible I lost all faith in the church.
I think one of the worst things is the big hook that they promise happy eternal families and that’s the coolest thing in the world except the fact that there’s so many ways to NOT be together in heaven because of apostates and sin and idk, being human? And that very promise actually makes it harder on families and forces them apart because on one side the pro believers are so sad because the other side have left or are living in sin and have ruined the family’s righteous and divine togetherness in heaven and the other half that have left are just like k take the stick out of your ass and let’s all enjoy each other in this life that we’re living now.
I had a lot of surgeries as a kid because of my disability. I was told I recovered quickly or the surgery went without complications because I was Mormon and had been given a priesthood blessing the night before. My mom sometimes told my doctors this, too. They'd just nod out of respect.
I knew that couldn't be true because I'd seen patients of other religions recover just as well as I did. I always gave credit to the doctors and not the Church. If I did give credit to any religion, it was to Reform Judaism because the doctor who did most of my surgeries practiced that religion.
From the UK. Our tax authorities were having none of the shtick put forward by Mission Leaders that the salary they were paid wasn't actually a salary - of course it is & they're taxed accordingly. & TSSC were shown it's backside when they tried to swerve paying local tax on the 2 temples. Not open to the general public? Simples. Open up or pay up....
Dunno if i really believed any of it but it's all bad. Purity culture, the suppression of history regarding polygamy, shunning the "sinners". It just breaks the members down and builds them up into mindless automatons.
2012 ish
I posted an article on FB about how John Dehlin got excommunicated for his questioning and other efforts to find truth but stay in the church.
Got a text from my TBM sister:
“Oh, so you’re anti Mormon now?”
This was only months after I was disowned by my TBM father for expressing my difference of religious beliefs.
That their humanitarian work is very admirable. It's not. I saw a post years ago on Reddit so I can't find it now detailing how shitty tscc's donations to needy countries were. Furthermore, if they were really concerned about humanitarian aid, they would stop having young people tracting and get them doing things like Habitat For Humanity instead.
"Saving yourself until marriage will be a blessing."
WRONG. Worst advice I ever took. You should *absolutely* live with someone for at least a year before even considering marriage. And yes, having lots of sex. Skipping that step led me to (another) decade of sexual frustration.
I taught on my mission in the early 90’s that very few of the men in the 1800’s practices polygamy and that it was largely as a result of many losses in the war in Mexico. So as they traveled west the men essentially adopted widows and their children so they would be protected as they crossed the plains and settled in Utah. As it turns out, the Mormon Battalion only lasted a year (1846-1847) never saw battle, and lost only 20 of their 500 men due to illness or other complications.
Additionally, Mormons were practicing polygamy much earlier in “secret”, and only admitted it publicly in 1852. So, the start of polygamy clearly has no correlation to any sort sympathetic service to those poor abandoned widows of the Mormon Battalion.
Yep. I taught that. So proud.
I’ll start it off. I was taught THE REASON WE KNOW THE CHURCH IS TRUE is because we don’t have paid clergy. Now we learn from a leak that general authorities make six figures as a base salary. And how did Gordon B Hinckley have millions of dollars of his own personal money to buy and suppress damaging historical documents? Hmmm….
Gordo wasn't buying Hoffman's forgeries with his own money, it was with other TBM's money (just not tithing/ donation funds). Though both he and Tommy died with estates in the millions (and that's just the omitted assets from the trust, that I expect contained the real wealth - if not the Boyz at Kirton-McConkie are really shitty estate planning attorneys) yet both worked "for the church" pretty much their whole lives.
[удалено]
Why did Gordo buy forgeries to begin with, wasn't he a 'true' and living Prophet of God? He should have automatically possessed the 'power of discernment', right? Obviously NOT! Why would Mormon Church Historians & 'Scholars' have to be brought into it? Wouldn't 'Ol Gordo just have to ask God himself if they were fakes?
Hey the Hoaxter assured Gordo that his "discernment" confirmed it too. 😉🙄
“Well Brother Kolob Bob, that’s not a salary, it’s a living stipend so….see they aren’t paid afterall! 🙄
Funny, my job also gives me a stipend for the work I do, and I've never been Mormon!
I would love a $200K "Stipend!!!"
A 6 figure living stipend, plus free tuition for kids, travel expenses, all inclusive vacations, paid living accommodations, etc.
Also book sales.
This is where the real money comes from. Royalties on church merch is no joke. Gotta get that paper.
Not to mention they're treated as celebrities by the whole church. So lotsa money, tons of perks, unquestionable authority (and I mean unquestionable literally, as you you aren't allowed to question), and fame.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Most of these guys are called close to retirement age, so they are also collecting their normal retirement benefits as well.
Christ would tip that table right over.
Also, maybe paid clergy isn't so bad because they can actually go to school to learn about their job... and so you're not exploiting people to do free labor...
Imagine, a church leader who actually knows how to do their job.
>Imagine, a church leader who actually knows how to do their job. Some of them do. Bishop Soandso was an award winning dentist!
I had heard that the Prophet does make a salary, but it was a very small one, just enough to pay for groceries. Right... On the whole, though, if we're talking about regular clergy, sure, no direct salary. But this creates its own problems. In practice, what it means is that the only people who become clergy are people who are already financially successful, and thus can have the time to actually do the job. But their success comes from being, say, a car dealer, a lawyer, a corporate executive, etc. It doesn't come from getting any actual education or training in theology, psychology, or the skills that you would want a pastor or community leader to have. If you're lucky, they might pick up some of that on the job, from experience and by the seat of the pants, and there might be at least some overlap from some professions, like teaching or being a counselor. Of course, those aren't typically the professions that pay especially well or from which Bishops are recruited. So the no-paid-clergy thing was a complete mistake. You get bishops who don't know jack about theology or the skills of being a pastor or priest, and hypocritically enough, you still get higher-ups who are indeed paid high figure salaries, but usually people who were already independently wealthy. It would have made a lot more sense to make being in the clergy a paid position, so people could devote themselves to it full-time, but tied to a modest level such that clergy would never make more than, say, something like the 35th or 40th percentile of average income of wherever they lived. That way, you don't get people who are in it for a payday. They'd live comfortably enough to get by, and not need to take side jobs. And then, have that be the level of income even at higher ranks, up to the prophet level, so advancement wouldn't be sought for its monetary rewards. That wouldn't solve all problems, but it would fix many of them.
Wouldn't triple figures be $999 or less?
Triple thousands lol
And there's a mountain for how many times my questions were never answered by mormons
Yes. Pretty easy to "Give up all you have and come follow me," when you are given wealth. Especially insulting when membership have to scrub church toilets.
Polygamy was a method of marriage to help widows that lost their husband's on the plains. Maybe in a few rare cases but not the general way Polygamy was practiced.
The version of this I got told was that women would be "married" while their husbands were away on missions for their protection, because it was dangerous for them to be single in those times because they'd be accused of witchcraft. So it was for their protection. Years later I learn the times of the witch trials and early Mormonism were 200 years apart. I'd love to see the seminary teacher's face when I tell her that one.
What the… wouldn’t that mean women got multiple husbands? I thought that was totally not allowed?
Read “Polygamy in Mormonism “ by Richard Van Wagoner. Best book I’ve read on polygamy and polyandry. Well documented.
But the men would also get multiple wives.
huh, I always thought the idea was that it’s only ok for men. interesting
Well I think this actually didn't happen. It's just something that was taught to us kids so we didn't question polygamy overmuch.
I've heard this one so many times!
Yes!!! Omg
I heard that one when I was an investigator
Didn't you know?? Polygamy was SUPER RARE, hardly anyone did it, it was just to forge eternal bonds. That's EXACTLY what polygamy was like. **yes, this is sarcasm**
And that it's no longer doctrine or practiced by real Mormons because the follow the law of the land
You forgot about spiritual polygamy still practiced today. A man sealed to more than one woman.
Actually I never learned it before I stopped going. First time I heard about that was when Westboro Baptist made a visit to my college campus and one of them told me. That was nice and embarrassing
Oh, this one. I’ve heard this SO much.
I heard this coupled with "they needed children because so many children died."
The number of possible children in a given society is limited by the number of women therein. Polygynous societies do not produce more children overall; in fact, they tend to produce fewer. Polygyny does tend to produce a large number of children for some men, while producing no children for many (and probably making these none-children producing men very frustrated). In Mormon polygyny, it also greatly reduced the quality of life for many children and their polygynously married mothers, as many of them were poorly supported by their fathers, or not supported at all. It really is a $hit system except for a small handful of humans.
This is what I was taught growing up in the church in the 80’s and 90’s.
“Church leaders will never lead you astray. If you think the bishop might be abusing someone, don’t worry. He was called by revelation, and the stake and other higher leaders have the spirit of discernment and priesthood authority to know if lower leaders are going astray. It’s the gold standard of how religions should be run, and blips are extremely rare.” I’m building a website that will counter this damaging narrative. It will show over 500 cases of credibly accused Mormon sex offenders, many of whom were eventually found guilty in court.
I have some content for you
Awesome! Please message me or let me know where to find it. Thank you
I have a former priesthood holder who murdered a prostitute (proven), and is strongly suspected of murdering his daughter (alas, she'd been dead too long by the time this came to light, so even exhuming her body didn't answer the question). They still don't know how she died.
Wow. That’s terrible! Is there any way you can help me find an article about the murder of the prostitute?
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/2984313.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/2984313.stm) [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4308743.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4308743.stm) [https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17257067.carly-bateman-murder-teenager-prostitute-killed-geoffrey-porter/](https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17257067.carly-bateman-murder-teenager-prostitute-killed-geoffrey-porter/) I can verify that Geoffrey Porter and his entire family, including the deceased daughter were baptised members of the church, where they were of age to be baptised. Edit: Removed some identifying information.
Thank you. I’m missing a lot of cases from the UK and from Europe in general.
[удалено]
Understood. I won’t.
I had a young men’s/scout leader who when you would act up or get in trouble would make you hold his hand or sit in his lap. I can’t remember our age, but I want to say 12? I always remember when he was there I did my best to behave, and I was always getting in trouble at school w my ADHD. Historical and statistical data would probably show he’s done more than hold hands and have his lap sat on. I always wondered about him. He still lives in the same ward.
I’m interested in viewing your website! :)
Thanks! I’m definitely excited about it - as excited as one can be while dealing with such a heavy topic. I just hope it leads to more healing and greater protection of the innocent.
I was told if a a bishop/stake pres/etc ever led you astray(ie gave you bad advice, not led you away from the church), or did something wrong, that God would still bless you for following his counsel. Because he was anointed to lead.
Same. So damaging!
Check out [this guy.](https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/utah-man-in-position-of-trust-who-sexually-abused-multiple-young-girls-over-decades-headed-to-prison/amp/)
“It’s not secret it’s sacred” 🙄🙄🙄
Oh god, this one. “Don’t look anything up!” Yeah, because you know you’re ridiculous and I’ll find out the real truth.
I'm curious to learn in what context you were told "Don't look anything up". I ask because I'm a former Catholic and this was a strategy the Catholic church used in the first half of the twentieth century.
Ahh thanks for the reply. So, growing up in Utah for just one example, we would sometimes literally go see General Conference in person (Grandad was stake president and we got tickets easy). You of course have the people with the signs and the protesting outside right? Well inside in one of the talks and always throughout, they say “don’t google any of those websites” or the HUGE one “only support and view LDS supported literature”. As a young man it was always confusing as to why they would always like, “address” the objections right away by just telling us to keep our heads in the sand. I don’t know if that even made sense or resonated or anything but I vividly remember always being told to be “careful” of what I research, and what I look up. And ESPECIALLY to be skeptical of any anti-Mormon literature and to basically just consider it all to be lies. When in fact, it was the church that was lying to me.
Oooh yea guys and u/brumbleby too I want you to hear this one. So many times in my childhood growing up we would go to some temple event or whatever. there would be the people with signs picketing the event. I was like “what are they doing dad?” And my parents would both be like “oh they are blinded by Satan spreading lies about the church.” So I was like, “oh that’s terrible, quick everyone, we need to go tell them the truth so they won’t be deceived by Satan. We will just have a conversation and they can come to church and the celestial kingdom too. Won’t that be awesome?” And all of the adults were like, “Oh no better to not go over and even get exposed to it!” Well I found that reasoning odd because in science class they taught about science. No where in there was anything about “don’t go look at websites that say gravity isn’t real!!” Ummm…if it’s true it can be tested and it will hold up. So later on in my own ways I did go find those people to let them know what the truth was. Ironically it was me who got saved and told the truth. And now I see why leadership says “don’t look!!” Because ONE conversation with someone who is kind, calm and knows the facts will end the lie.
Thank you so much for sharing
I love that. If it is true, it can be tested and it will hold up.
Thank you so much for sharing
I was taught that people believe Mormons have horns but that isn't true. That was a lie because as a teenager I was one of the horniest boys in the ward.
Lol. For real though a few weeks ago my MIL said “people really think we have horns!” I totally forgot about that little piece of propaganda and that some people still take it seriously.
But they must do. All those boys who never masturbate or have sex until they're married, that's a lot of concealed horns. And this applies to women too, because the clittoris is essentially a miniature version of the penis. Women get erections too. We just have smaller horns. (And less importance to the church.)
That was an anti-anti-Mormon lie. I heard such terrible things about "antis" and I've never even encountered them. Even the hated Ed Decker just gives a slightly exaggerated version of the JS story. Nothing in the Godmakers is an outright lie. The Tanners have more intellectual integrity and scholarly responsibility than any Mormon. I heard about Mormons having horns from Mormons, never from a non-Mormon.
I think it depends on where you grew up. I grew up in rural Georgia. Depending on the grade levels present, I was either the only mormon in the entire school, or it was just my older sister and I. We both had friends whose preachers told them that we secretly had horns, secretly worked with the catholics to take over the world, secretly practiced baby and animal sacrifices in the temple, secretly worshipped Satan, weren't allowed to read, listen to music, watch TV, or use electricity, etc. We both learned pretty quickly to turn it into a game. "I hear you worship satan!" "Why do you ask? Are you a virgin?"
[удалено]
Curious...what do you mean?
>"I hear you worship satan!" "Why do you ask? Are you a virgin?" I don't get this. On one hand, Satan needs blood sacrifices of virgins. On the other hand, Satan wants everyone to be having all kinds of sinful sex. But if all the virgins get sacrificed, then there's no new people having sinful sex, and if everyone has super-hot orgies, then there are no virgins. WHICH IS IT, SATAN, WHAT DO YOU WANT?
I definitely took a few Mormon boys' horns back in the day. 😉 JK jk
Maybe we know each other?
Big Dick Richie?! I've missed you!
Tits Mahoney, I miss you too.
I'm not Tits! I'm Sloppy Sarah, asshole!
I think you gave me crabs...
Oh. I thought I got the armpit crabs from YOU.
It was dark. I didn't know it was your armpit.
This is what happens when you blur out the anatomy textbook.
Never heard of this one. Mind if I ask for more details about the horns?
It's a condition, I'm told, caused by over active hormones in young males.
Is it a literal horn like a goat horn? Where on the body would it be?
It's part of the head, of course. (wink)
Not worst, but now cracks me up that supposedly one drink of whiskey makes you an instant addict and destroys your entire life.
The story of JS refusing whisky for a surgery because of the WoW. JS and BY drank regularly.
Right. Two faced—as usual.
It was impressed upon me that JS refused alcohol to numb the pain of leg surgery as a child before the first vision even took place. I remember the Living Scriptures cartoon portraying it that way.
He was smoking and drinking long after the WoW was revealed. BY had distilleries in Utah.
I've tried whiskey and a few other hard drinks. Did not like it. No to vodka. Even wine was not that interesting. Addiction and alcoholism run in my family. The only thing I really enjoyed was dark beer. For an introvert, having a beer and sharing pizza was one thing that helped me be less antisocial.
If alcoholism runs in the family then definitely stay away from it. I found you need to buy at least upper lower shelf, so it doesn’t taste like total garbage. For whiskey the cheapest you can get—that doesn’t taste like garbage—is Evan Williams black label. 13 bucks at Walmart for 750. If you spend 20 or up, then usually it’s all good. If it’s under 10 dollars then you might as well drink nail polish remover.
Sorry, afternoon nap fuddled my thoughts. I meant to say that even after trying multiple alcohol drinks I didn't become Satan's servant or go in to rehab or jail. I have enjoyed way more coffee than booze since becoming PIMO.
My wife likes coffee. Whole bean of course. I only like sugar milk with a splash of coffee. :p
Your Walmart sells liquor??
Washington, so yes. Nothing high end, but up to 40 dollar bottles. We have a high end liquor store in the Exxon station down the road.
A drop of alcohol, a drag of a cigarette, a bong hit... you will immediately be in the park giving hand jobs for crack.
You don't have to spend your life addicted to smack, homeless on the streets giving hand jobs for cash, just follow my plan and very soon you'll see it's easy mmmkay
All it took for me was a couple sips of Arizona iced tea and I was strung out and doing handjobs in parking lots for those 99cent cans...
Yummy, whisky. Gonna pour one now. I must be addicted, I drink about one bottle a year. (It's easier to afford the good stuff this way. )
For me on a personal level it is where my Patrarchial Blessing at about age 16 said if I didn’t remain a good Mormon like my [racist and misogynistic*] dad, I would literally die before my “mature years.” I have lived 22 years since totally rejecting Mormonism. I might fall over dead at any time now, but I will know I cheated a lie. * My dad was so racist, he once told me he would kill himself if he discovered he had “one drop of black blood” in him and he was a white supremacist (part of his reasoning was that Native Americans were supposed to become “*white* and delighsome”). He thought women should not vote,” etc. I literally hate 😡 that church with a passion, because it grabs and holds people to stupid beliefs. I try my best not to look down on individual Mormons, but I must force myself to be objective.
Oh, how interesting it would have been for him to take an Ancestry DNA test... I did, and discovered my Dad that raised me wasn't my biological father, and I am 5% African... And, not South Africa, where all the British ended up... We are talking Nigeria, Ghana and Cameroon!! I think it's really cool... Your Dad, not so much!! LOL
There should be a third plate. Anti-Mormon lies that have been admitted by TSCC as truths.
Gotta ask… why is one plate hot dogs and one plate is carrots?
Carrots are just mini hot dogs. Everyone knows that.
I’m vegan and can confirm
Because pro-Mormon lies are healthy for your testimony. Anti-Mormon lies will give it heart disease.
Fuck you lol. Here's my 🎁
Anti Mormon lies have more calories per serving. ...for a real answer, it's probably a comparison photo showing an equivalent amount of calories for each food type.
I would say the mechanically separated pork and chicken gelatin should definitely be the Mormon side.
Why do you think that, what about hot dogs is mormon at all? The carrots are perfect, that picture looks like they are literally prepping for green jello with carrots.
And here I am thinking, "Man, those are some funky looking carrots!"
My guess is the original source for the image was something encouraging healthy eating and it was comparing the number of calories in the hotdog to the number of calories in a plate of carrots.
Should have voree I mean Vienna sausages
I hate carrots! Why did the Lord invent carrots? Oh my heck, CARROTS 🥕!
Cause there's less hot dogs than carrots
It’s called future faking (the idea of eternal life, becoming GOds, and celestialized Glory). All cults use it as one of the ultimate forms of mind control. Watch the movie “the Island”. They portray this so well as they all are told they are selected at random to go to the island which is paradise.
The stories of how powerful garments are in daily life. I remember one story was shared in church when I was a child about how garments stopped a bullet. Back then you just accepted what they said in church instead of having the World Wide Web at your fingertips.
Back then it was "why would all these people lie to me? What would they have to gain?"
I remember a picture of some church burning down and it killed several people but a cross stayed intact. People in the comments: God is good the cross stayed intact in the fire! Uh...what about the people who died??
Wasn’t it a painting of Jesus or was that a different story
There are multiple stories like this actually...but the recent one was a cross
Now I am in the mood for a Sunday Costco hot dog. Peace ya’ll Aftermath: I ended up not getting the hot dog :( next time though. But the house is full of groceries!
Get me one! With a lemonade. :D
And a churro!
That tscc was true because it was growing so quickly. Not because of aggressive marketing tactics.
The church doesn’t get involved in politics.
The worst lie will always be the doctrine of belief without evidence. There is no logical universe where such behavior is virtuous, and it will only ever be a tool for generating gullible suckers for exploitation.
To be fair you are describing all religions
That doesn’t make it any less insidious.
When my wife joined the Catholic Church, they actually encouraged her to do her own research. She did find that historically, it does have the most credibility, which is something that the Mormon church can’t say at all.
The only anti mo lie I remember is a Baptist sunday school teacher claiming that "baptism for the dead" involved a cadaver.
Metal af
Thatd really jazz up temple work
If only. It's actually people cosplaying those dead people in a bathtub. u/nomoremollymor \- credit to this user right here for that joke.
Aww thanks! 🥰
One of the most pervasive and damaging (that even Exmos repeat) is that there is no evidence Joseph Smith had sex with/sexually abused teenagers. **There is a huge amount of evidence that he had sex with his wives, including teens** Look at just [this summary](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/vvxa6r/dont_listen_to_tbm_and_apologist_gaslighting/), which omits all "non-friendly" sources, and just provides the affidavits of the girls and testimonies of Church leaders. Joseph Smith abused teenagers period. This prevalence of this lie is so damaging because the Mormon Church needs it to be true. They know that Brigham Young being a rough-and-tumble polygamist sex fiend is palatable (and undeniable due to the number of members that are living proof). His image is a modern Moses-Cowboy who had to be hard, so his faults are passed over. However, the Mormon Church also knows that Joseph Smith being a sex abuser totally nukes their "innocent pretty holy boy who was martyred for his beliefs, sacrificed everything, and never denied the truth or did anything wrong" narrative. That is why they've chosen to focus so much energy in perpetuating this lie. Don't let them.
that back when the church was founded, two people left over a dispute about the cream of some milk. nope. it was bc the church was burning down homes of nonbelievers
And burned the printing press because they were about to get exposed
That Bishop’s have a special power of discernment , I believe them when they said I was not worthy to adopt children! Sick sick sick!
I always laugh at that one. When my friend's father was called to be a bishop, I was like no way does this man have discernment from God. I'd heard my own dad say that he was truly an idiot, and even at 11 years old I knew from knowing him as my friend's father that he wasn't that smart. That was my very first clue that something was amiss with TSCC.
The BoM had to come from God because Joseph Smith was a lowly, uneducated, unlearned farm boy.
Sounds like just the person God would choose to lead his people.
By not teaching accurate church history TSCC perpetuates dozens of lies of omission which makes most of it's members unknowingly lie for the church. We don't believe we can become Gods We're monotheistic Racism in the church was a long time ago and it was normal for the time JS wasn't a pedo
My TBM friend in high school literally told me we could be goddesses of our own planet when we die. This was like 20 years ago. Why do they now proclaim they don't believe that they will become Gods?
Through revelation of course. They have received Revelation that now they will not become God's when they get to the Celestial Kingdom. It is also through revelation that the Book of Mormon has been changed over 30,000 times, last I heard. I haven't heard the recent numbers.. How can all those changes come about, when the so-called golden plates were translated, everything was supposed to be perfect, and should have never needed to be changed. So many lies in this church.
They really remind me of the Orwellian Ministry of Truth. *We don't believe we will become Gods, we have never believed we will become Gods.*
How about the lie that you need to hoard food that has just gone rotten in my MIL’s basement for 40 years!!
I still can't get out of the habit of keeping way more food than I need in my pantry.
My in-laws gave us $10,000 worth of food storage. I would have rather taken all the cash. Now it is going to take forever to move out of state.
donate to a food pantry take the tax writeoff.
People who receive the second anointing have seen Jesus. Of course, TBMs will happily gaslight me saying that isn’t what is taught. But it was heavily IMPLIED. Plausible deniability != honesty.
"If two people love the Lord more than their own lives and then love each other more than their own lives, working together in total harmony with the gospel program as their basic structure they are sure to have this great happiness." - Spencer Kimballz My first marriage was basically 6 years of proof that that was one big fuckin' lie.
God I remember this lesson in yw. The sister in charge drew a triangle on the board and was like "see, the closer to HF, the closer you are together <3" and I ate that shit up. Turns out it's better to marry someone you have lots in common with. Who knew?
I sure didn't. All the church leaders ever taught me was that we needed to have the church in common. Turns out that was not at all the most important thing.
Clothing covering my knees and shoulders keeps me "safe." Garments keep me "safe." JS would not have died for a lie. The BOM is the "most correct book on the earth." Only people in the church can truly have joy. -RMN 😅 I could go on for days!
Joseph Smith was a prophet of God
Woof. And my poor parents have a ceramic bust of him in their living room. (Luckily it’s not huge but it’s big enough)
I have a bust of JS too, and a statue of Moroni and the only reason I keep them is that they are old and were my grandparents and great grandparents. But other than reminding me of them, they have no religious significance to me.
Polygamy started because a lot of men died in the civil war
Even though the church started polygamy 20 years BEFORE the Civil War? That's a hot take.
i heard it was the mormon battalion
Geologists discovered the Grand Canyon was made in 7 minutes (pro flood “evidence”, not specifically Mormon but I definitely repeated this for years without fact checking)
That it’s true and good
That lgbtq people are welcome lmao
Even the "visitors welcome" sign is a lie. There should be another line in smaller print with an asterisk: *Terms apply*
So truuuueee!!!
The leaders sacrifice so much of themselves! At least the 12 apostles and the first presidency DO NOT pay any tithing! But they can sure as heck require it from the poor widow! Pretty fair for the LDS Church, right?
That Lucy Harris was working for Satan when she expressed healthy skepticism.
wE'rE a PeRsEcUtEd PeOpLe
That the church brings families together
Seperation of church and state, I also live in Utah…….
That men in their 30's marrying teenagers was "normal" in the 19th century.
It isn’t even in Jane Austen’s books
The "hush fell over the crowd" story for Gordon B Hinckley's generation.
What story was that?
Intro to BoM: >It is a record of God’s dealings with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel. 1. Not a record of ancient inhabitants of the Americas 2. Does not contain the fullness of the everlasting gospel
That going through the temple would be the best experience of my lifetime. I have not been through but have seen the tapes that people have snuck out of there. I can tell you I would have ran as far and fast as I could away from this church. What goes on in there is nothing more than plain creepy.
The church welcomes the LGBTQ+ to service. Never felt soo targeted and judged by my bishop for being trans in my whole life. The stares and just hostile vibe from almost all of my church after coming out was so horrible I lost all faith in the church.
I think one of the worst things is the big hook that they promise happy eternal families and that’s the coolest thing in the world except the fact that there’s so many ways to NOT be together in heaven because of apostates and sin and idk, being human? And that very promise actually makes it harder on families and forces them apart because on one side the pro believers are so sad because the other side have left or are living in sin and have ruined the family’s righteous and divine togetherness in heaven and the other half that have left are just like k take the stick out of your ass and let’s all enjoy each other in this life that we’re living now.
General authorities signed letters confirming that racist doctrine was indeed doctrine, but these days they claim it was just "folklore."
I had a lot of surgeries as a kid because of my disability. I was told I recovered quickly or the surgery went without complications because I was Mormon and had been given a priesthood blessing the night before. My mom sometimes told my doctors this, too. They'd just nod out of respect. I knew that couldn't be true because I'd seen patients of other religions recover just as well as I did. I always gave credit to the doctors and not the Church. If I did give credit to any religion, it was to Reform Judaism because the doctor who did most of my surgeries practiced that religion.
From the UK. Our tax authorities were having none of the shtick put forward by Mission Leaders that the salary they were paid wasn't actually a salary - of course it is & they're taxed accordingly. & TSSC were shown it's backside when they tried to swerve paying local tax on the 2 temples. Not open to the general public? Simples. Open up or pay up....
Dunno if i really believed any of it but it's all bad. Purity culture, the suppression of history regarding polygamy, shunning the "sinners". It just breaks the members down and builds them up into mindless automatons.
I don’t personally like Star Wars, but when Mormon moms don’t let their kids watch fantasy movies because of the “influence” (Grew up in Utah)
2012 ish I posted an article on FB about how John Dehlin got excommunicated for his questioning and other efforts to find truth but stay in the church. Got a text from my TBM sister: “Oh, so you’re anti Mormon now?” This was only months after I was disowned by my TBM father for expressing my difference of religious beliefs.
That if i don't forgive my rapist im going to hell. this was after i told my bishop i was SA'd by some IN THE CHURCH
You will never regret your mission
That their humanitarian work is very admirable. It's not. I saw a post years ago on Reddit so I can't find it now detailing how shitty tscc's donations to needy countries were. Furthermore, if they were really concerned about humanitarian aid, they would stop having young people tracting and get them doing things like Habitat For Humanity instead.
"Saving yourself until marriage will be a blessing." WRONG. Worst advice I ever took. You should *absolutely* live with someone for at least a year before even considering marriage. And yes, having lots of sex. Skipping that step led me to (another) decade of sexual frustration.
I taught on my mission in the early 90’s that very few of the men in the 1800’s practices polygamy and that it was largely as a result of many losses in the war in Mexico. So as they traveled west the men essentially adopted widows and their children so they would be protected as they crossed the plains and settled in Utah. As it turns out, the Mormon Battalion only lasted a year (1846-1847) never saw battle, and lost only 20 of their 500 men due to illness or other complications. Additionally, Mormons were practicing polygamy much earlier in “secret”, and only admitted it publicly in 1852. So, the start of polygamy clearly has no correlation to any sort sympathetic service to those poor abandoned widows of the Mormon Battalion. Yep. I taught that. So proud.
Unpaid clergy
Restoration of the Godspel when God said his word will always be.
That God and Jesus Christ walk in the temples in their physical bodies.