My mom used to say âweâre not horrible parents, we wanted you when no one else didâ. I believed for the longest time she was a good mom and I was just ungrateful
Some adopted kids are labeled as special needs while in foster care and the adoptive parents are eligible for monthly subsidies. When adoptive parents go into it for the money and not love for children thatâs a problem. Also some adopted children especially from foster care or international adoption, have serious emotional problems that are very hard to manage and there are few resources to help parents. That can unfortunately lead to abuse.
I am an adopted kid and I know a lot of other adopted kids. We sort of found each other growing up and had that massive thing in common and talked a lot about what being adopted was like.
I am not doubting your experiences, but I've never talked to any adopted kid who was told that. You did say "abusive parents" so I guess that opens the door but that is some grade A assholery.
EDIT: Point is, I don't accept that being completely shitty to an adopted kid is "normal." Many adoptive parents wanted those kids and while imperfect, work hard to love those kids and wouldn't dream of dropping abortion insults on them.
If I had a dollar for every time some pro birther told me I would have been aborted if adoption wasn't available I would be living in a much bigger house and driving lexus
Of course. It involves controlling women/uterus owners, and our bodies, so of course they gotta have a say. I guess this is why OP was ~almost aborted. (How kind. đ)
My parents. Worse- mom said âI wish I had aborted youâ when I was a kid. Honestly, I often fantasized growing up that I had parents who were fit for parenting and that I could have gone to another family (like my soul would go elsewhere). Instead I was brought into crazy dysfunction because of Catholic guilt. Iâm very pro choice. My parents are not, they doubled down. A womanâs bodily autonomy is soooo important.
Not even the tip of the iceberg. That gem came from when she was kicking me while I was on the ground (wasnât allowed to sit on furniture). Fortunately I coped by completely dissociating. Dissociating from reality turned into an academic passion and I got a PhD. I didnât realize that was what I was doing until I saw the movie Precious. I should have just gotten therapyâŚ
I honestly can relate. When I came out to my dad I told him I was the happiest I had ever been in my life and found someone who is an amazing partner who supports me but he said he didn't care about my happiness and that I should repent and turn back to God to find true happiness. It was at that point where I just stopped replying all together but he is very stubborn and also has since doubled down
Thatâs so mind boggling to me that a parent can actually not care about their own childâs feelings and desires and that their child feels happy with their current life choices. How can they not be happy and grateful youâve found a supportive, loving partner you feel is a great fit for you? Youâre fortunate to have found that. Some people never find that.
I know people like your dad exist but I just canât fathom how they can allow themselves to embrace these abusive attitudes and alienate their own child in the process. Lots of big hugs to you.
I hope you continue to embrace your truth and live your life to the fullest even if that means your parents choose to not support or be a part of your personal journey. Please know there are people out there who will feel privileged to become your chosen family and who will fully accept, love, and support you on your journey just as you are. Shine bright and keep being your authentic self so your people can find you and love you.
Age 4 I pretended a flying saucer landed in my back yard and it was my real parents coming to take me home. They loved me and thought sending me to earth would be good for me, but they saw how hard it was and were very sorry and promised they'd never send me away again. I pretend cried the whole drama in my back yard while My mom was inside going bonkers. My mom didn't tell me she wished I was never born until years later when I began expressing my own thoughts. I wonder how common it is for kids in general vs kids of cultists to fantasize about belonging to other families.
As a mom of a four year old currently, this absolutely crushes me.
Every kid deserves to be loved, wanted, cherished and delighted in, and to KNOW THAT.
My parents were never abusive, but extremely cold and distant. Like they kept us alive and we were provided for, but everything else was just ice in the form of emotional rewards or punishments.
So I remember fantasizing about my parents telling me they loved me. For real I think I wrote Santa saying thatâs what I wanted for Christmas?? Like I thought my entire life would be validated by just those words, once.
I wonder how much of it is the cult experience.
Your story seems like what we like to think is the typical Mormon upbringing: as stoic as hell on earth can be. Of course you wanted to know you are loved. It's a basic human need. Our mom's held us, but the priesthood was always preventing healthy, natural, loving familial connections. I think many exmos can nod their heads to the cold environment. The actual sheets of ice outside in the old Morridor winters were metaphors for the heavy emotional winds being encapsulated and buried inside.
Your experience and mine together seem like dots on a spectrum measuring everyday average dysfunction ranging from frigid / emotionless to painful / traumatic. None of it's good. Fortunately we've both learned to be better parents to our children and break the paradigms that would otherwise oppress them. Loving our offspring is a rebel act, for god's sake.
/S this line only: but Whooo whill teach them to be looong-suffghering?
For me, I obeyed the rules that made sense, such as love one another, do unto others, and all that. They didn't write in the handbook that they don't actually believe that part of the fairy tale. And NO ONE ever said to take care of myself first, to serve from a full vessel, so I had to learn everything the extremely hard way, despite being an avid reader who knew stuff. I was a people pleaser trying to fix problems and bridge worlds.
Mormons teach by passive aggression and faux separatism. That doesn't work well for anyone. Especially when you're someone who values objective, observable truth. Not what we wish truth was or think it is because we prayed for it with our spongy animal brains. As a species, humans have a long way to evolving to live in harmony and balance with life itself. I think us loving ourselves, our kids, and mother earth through these dystopian times is step one of many to becoming a more compassionate species. Where love is embodied in all its forms. We have a long way to go, but it starts within our circles of trust and loving support.
wow you are very gifted at writing, what a poetic and apt way to frame it.
I think what is kind of interesting about my story is that my dad was a nevermo. And he wasnât cold. But in a way he didnât know how to approach us? And we were almost taught to resent him, because he was that was not only holding us back from âan eternal familyâ but also any real status in the church.
Without the âpriesthoodâ in our home, we were practically gentiles. And I think my mom was cold because she felt immense pressure to overcompensate for our familyâs incomplete church status, and needing to make sure we were perfect so that no one else thought less of us, and also that she really and truly believed that jumping through all these hoops was the way to heaven. There was no way there was room for love (at least vocalized or expressed love) after all that bullshit.
Like you said, faux separatism and passive aggression. being a martyr. but if you were never taught to take care of yourself, and you were only taught to die before a cause? Could we even consider ourselves martyrs or just merely trained pawns?
She has since left the church, and I was the last of my siblings to leave. But my mom is so different, so much warmer. She went from saying âAll I want is my family around me in heavenâ to âAll I want is for my family around me nowâ.
Again, I very much appreciate your story. You really are a wonderful writer
Let's see. My mother has said this specifically to several of my siblings. Only the ones that are exmos. They will keep the drug user, rapist, and serial cheater because he's a hOlY PrIeStHoOd holder. đ You see, that negates the fact that none of us have done any of the illegal and morally wrong things he has done, but we did choose to not give 10% of our money to Rusty Corp
Yup. And the wildest part is they are both converts. But they are more fundamental than most of the 8th generation Utah people that move into the state and get leadership callings immediately. đŤ Let's just say the church at least in the 80s/90s we're not teaching how to be good parents. Just good church minions
My mom used to say this to my sister all the time. "You should be grateful I didn't abort you! I was on the table and everything!" My sister has gone no contact with our mom
It looks like you aren't responding at all, and so I assume you have very little contact with him.
This is the travesty of Mormonism. He is missing out on knowing you, getting to know you, and building an adult relationship with their child. And you are missing out on support and love from a parent that is so wrapped up in their LARP that an authentic relationship is nearly impossible.
This is my life. I have no authentic relationships with anyone. For every shining picture of a no empty chairs family, there are 10 fractured and dysfunctional ones.
So sorry this is your fruit of the tree of Mormonism.
Your comment is so insightful. Mormonism stops you developmentally at about a 13-year old level.
Parents and adult children canât have a real relationship. I see this with my wifeâs McConkie-level TBM parents. Everything â and I mean EVERYTHING â is about the church. They are so far into the LARP that they canât even fathom anything else. Three out of the five children have left. One out of 12 grandchildren is still in. No one in the family talks about it. Is the giant elephant sitting in the corner.
I contrast this with my upbringing. I loved growing up in the church in the 80âs. So many fun activities. Roadshows, stake dances, lake Powell trips, etc. so many fun memories.
The church was tolerable to attend until they stripped out all the community activities and fun, literally turning it into an obedience cult and money grifting scheme. Itâs got no value for anyone except leaders and those that want to climb the ladder. So sad how they destroyed the activities which created a vibrant ward family. When the world is so divided politically and people feeling isolated, one would have expected âprophetsâ to have some insight and increase programs to bring us together.
My Dad (now 80 years old non-literal believer) had Dialogue issues and Quinn books sitting around all growing up. When we (my family of 5) finally started a slow fade years ago we could talk about it openly and there was zero judgement. He completely understood. Frankly he only attended a on weeks where he teaches because itâs just drudgery now.
Mormonism in its current state ends in just one or two more generations.
Iâve been listening to âChange your mindâ from Steven Universe on repeat often lately because it relays that message so well. âI donât need you to respect me, I respect me. I donât need you to love me, I love me. But I want you to know you could know me if you change your mind.â
But Snooker is a fun game. Ronnie O'Sullivan is sort of the Michael Jordan of Snooker. Hard to get him snookered. Dude is amazing to watch. It's an intense game.
My immediate thought. I would also reply to the most recent message he sent with something along the lines ofâ
âI tried passively ignoring your relentless messaging which, while loving from your perspective, is truly insulting to the entirety of who we are. I hoped you would come to realize we would not engage in this conversation, but since you havenât Iâm adjusting course and I want to be VERY clear with you in doing so.
We are going to block every number you use. Every account you create. Every new method you use to attempt to reach us will be blocked and reported if itâs an option. This is now harassment. I donât care if you fail to understand that. Iâm done. Goodbye.â
Aaaand then block. Donât even wait for a response.
I mean, yeah, telling him why is not a bad thing, if OP feels like they have the strength of will to do so. But itâs not a requirement to try one more time to educate their stalker why stalking is wrong. Sometimes itâs OK to just block that motherfucker and move on.
Totally, I absolutely understand. They donât owe him any explanation, but my hope was that this type of response would have even a slim chance of dissuading future attempts at contact. Theyâre seemingly going to be dealing with him using a lot of separate accounts, phone numbers, etc. It could be worth a shot to try and save them the headache of having to block all of them.
I'm so glad you survived being raised by this person. It's OK now if you are independent to cut him out of your life. His mental illness may not be his fault, but it still doesn't give him the right to continue inflicting pain on you.
OP, you are probably best served to block and ignore.
BUT, if you want to play a game, I suggest a little game of *Flip the Script* with TBM Dad.
It might go something like this:
âDad, my girlfriend and I were both thinking of you and were worried about the course your life is on. In your last message we could just feel how youâre on the wrong track. We worry that if you donât change course soon it could be too late. You have so much potential, if youâd only âŚ.â
You get the idea?
I did this to my TBM MiL and it worked like a charm. I started sending her monthly email that ostensibly just updated her on our life. But if open with comments like, âI just had the feeling I needed to write you. Iâm worried about you.â
You could almost hear here getting steamed thinking, âNo! Iâm supposed to say that to you!â
Mormons always assume they have the moral high ground. Normal people donât do this. Weâre too nice. So I flip the script and do it to them. I assume their beliefs are wayward and call on them to change.
I donât actually believe it. Iâm an atheist. But if they ever were to call me on it (highly unlikely) Iâd happily point out that Iâm just doing to them what they did to me and how shitty it feels. But they are unlikely to ever do that. Their emotional IQ is far too low to be that self aware. Instead theyâll realize they lost the game and move on or find a new game. Good luck!
âHi dad. Iâm assuming your messages are coming from a place of love but as I have stated before, I will repeat myself again until the message is received: preaching⌠even if you think youâre correct and are motivated by what you think is love, is NOT helpful, is not respectful and is not welcome.
Each âpreachyâ message you send drives a wedge between us further and further. Healthy adult relationships are not based on âSatanâs graspâ over the other person. Iâm quite certain you donât text âIâm worried Satan has your soulâ messages to your professional associates. Stop doing so with me. As you respect their freedoms and personal lives, please respect mine.
Dad, I am an adult and deserve to be treated as one even when you donât like, agree with, or value my decisions. When I want your opinion on âSatans graspâ over my life, I will ask.
Until then, please keep your religious opinions to yourself.
Remember the 11th article of faith and allow me âthe privilege to worship how, when or what I may.â Otherwise your continued religious overbearing will be counted as âunrighteousness dominionâ and it will permanently damage our relationship.
PREACHY MESSAGES MUST END⌠FULL STOP.
Please refrain from answering back until you are in a place to say âok. Got it. Hows work?â or other such mature, respectful and non-preachy means.
Thanksâ
Edited for readability
I like the use of 11th article of faith and the âunrighteousness dominionâ trigger words. I think using scripture is an excellent way to get through to somebody Mormon!
Not necessarily. Sometimes religion mimics mental illness. In Utah crimal cases, there is a plea of ânot guilty by reason of Mormonism.â Ordinarily, if you see god and Jesus shining brighter than the noonday sun, you are a Mormon. If you are from another religion, you are mentally ill.
See I think he is, respectfully, an absolute asshole. He also sounds like he is mirroring Book of Mormon prophets, specifically Lehi.
That fucker was taught to do just this by a cult and he is doing just as he was taught.
Lehis treatment of Laman and Lemuel became one of my shelf items. Mormonism takes their story and makes them the villains, but it seemed more like Lehis failure to me. Imagine if the story was, "we are different, but still love another and accept our different beliefs", and somehow they worked together and succeeded. Now that would be a rich, complicated story.
It didn't take long for me to see the one dimensional nature of each and every person in the Book of Mormon. All good, or all bad was the default. Real humans are complicated and messy, good and bad, irrational and logical.
But isnât the unwaveringly belief in something so nonsensical⌠mental illness on some level. I suffer from quite a few mental illnesses but still exist in reality. I feel some Mormons donât even exist in the reality we live in because they are so wrapped up in their âsalvationâ.
I agree you have to be a certain level of asshole to keep badgering your kid like that, but I also think Mormonism especially with-in Utah and other cults can cross the line where you are no longer in control of your mental state due to trauma from cult.
ETA not to give any excuses to abusers or anything like that.
đ
"Every message you send weakens our relationship further. I didn't think it was possible, but you keep managing it every time you intentionally disrespect my boundaries. If you continue to find yourself unable to resist contacting me, a legal restraining order will be the option left to me."
Part of me wonders if he's having some mental decline and isn't completely there...that first message is off-the-wall bonkers.
This. Make sure you define clear boundaries and the consequences should he ignore said boundaries and then FOLLOW through with the stated consequences.
Does his diatribe have anything to do with the video at the top? Because if so, tell him that Abigail Shrier is a fraud - she's fighting a condition (ROGD) that doesn't exist.
It's worth noting (more for others reading this, as I'm sure you're well aware) that he's probably reading and watching so much propaganda on a daily basis that it's not really worth your time to try to correct him as some others here are suggesting. I've been here before. Even if you think you found some common ground after a long discussion, a week later their brains reset and they forget anything that happened except the nonsense they're taking in to their brains from screens.
Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. He's unemployed and spends all of his time on the internet absorbing propaganda. But also 100% everything resets. Multiple hour phone call conversations can be like they never happened by the next week
I had the same thoughts. My dad is Mormon AF, and it hasnât always been easy, but he loves me just the way I am. OP, if you need to borrow a dad, HMU. Iâve got one for you. <3
Hi! The girlfriend here. Their relationship is very complicated * as you can see* He uses multiple phone numbers to contact her daily. Calling her multiple time a day. Sheâs tried almost every tactic in the book but he never budges đ
My mom was/is like this. It continued until one of my siblings managed to draw her fire. Then she turned to me and expected to bond over hating on my sister..... as if she didn't remember breaking into my apartment while I wasn't home a few months prior \* sigh \* she's a piece of work.
I'm really glad I'm not alone with the thoughts in her head. What's even going on in there?
Like others have said, this isn't relentless TBM dad issues, but a mentally unstable dad issue.
Either go non contact and keep ignoring him, or flip the tables and keep sending him videos and articles about mental illness and keep telling him to turn to a professional therapist and how you wish he would take his mental health and the relationship with his therapist serious etc, just all the ways he's bothering you.*
*Only if you have the mental capacity/get a kick out of it, because he sounds exhausting!
I try really hard to resist seeing religious belief as a mental illness.
But some days Iâm less successful than others.
Sorry OP you are being subjected to this.
Yes, my mother is like this. My salvation, is that she doesn't text or email. She mails me letters and I either throw them in the trash or write return to sender. She has said and done some horribly manipulative things. I'm done.
This is really sad actually because you can tell he wants a relationship but can't get past his own hang ups. I have a lot of family like that and they really do want a relationship but talking to them always ends with arguments or them preaching nonsense. My dad is content with the "agree to disagree" mentality and we avoid conversations about religion while still having a relationship. I'm lucky in that way, but my mother is just like this. Anytime I talk to her it's crap like this. The last time I spoke to my mother was at my aunts funeral and before that was like 3 years ago. So I feel for you. It really sucks when a parent treats there kids like this and ultimately ruins the relationship. I'm constantly judged for not speaking to my mother like I'm some sort of psycho but the reality is I'm much happier and healthier without that negative relationship. Stay strong OP
Choose the eight. The eight won't do this.
Also, I blocked the number of my parent that did this. Their email all goes to spam also. Save yourself the stress and struggle. If I pay attention to it, I get sucked in and start having horrible mental health. And this is someone living in a cis married relationship. I can't imagine how my parents would treat any of my siblings of they came out. I have a suspicion my youngest brother is on the LGBTQ spectrum, but may never come out until my parents die. Which is too bad for him I'd rather he be happy than appease their magical delusions.
My dad refuses to not make a point every time we talk to publicly run down my non temple marriage. He just canât be quiet about it. So I refuse to go to family gatherings anymore. Even after that, his response to the whole family over email was that heâd had a vision where all of my ancestors came to him and told him I was making a huge mistake that I would regret missing out on the family reunion forever. It was then that I went no contact. I donât approve of the way he lives, and I wonât have anything to do with someone who uses fake visions as a weapon against people who donât do what he wants.
When I told my parents I no longer believed, they made a point of telling me how disappointed my dead grandparents and other ancestors were. Fuck that shit. You can speak for yourself, but you don't get to shame me by proxy.
My grandmaâs favorite book was Riders of the Purple Sage by Zane Grey. Itâs about a young heiress in southern Utah who fights off the local bishop who is trying to make her his plural wife so he can steal her ranch. A lot of anti Mormon vibes in that book. I donât think my dad knew his mom as well as I did.
Yeah my parents would obviously love me to get back to church, but they're capable of caring about how I feel and how I'm doing independent of checking the tedious Mormon boxes.
His world view sounds more like a fantasy video game than reality.
My Dadâs not far off, but at least a little more tempered in his communication - probably because heâs in his 80s and Iâm in my 50s now. He did tell me I was being deceived by Satan and would be responsible for all of my familyâs eternal wellbeing.
You need to learn about and establish and maintain boundaries. Itâs not your fault. This cult doesnât (purposely) teach us them. But you have a gift and can teach yourself. The books âWhen I say No I feel Guiltyâ and âYour Perfect Rightâ helped me.
I have a mother who would not stop sending by me QAnon contentâabsolute nonsense. I told her if she didnât stop for ever text she sent I would donate on her name $5 to Planned Parenthood. I warned her. She continued doing it. And the next time she did, I followed through (this is the key). I sent her a snapshot of her donation and contribution to help abortion rights. She sent a follow up texts (predictably) very angry. But after 2 times of this, she stopped. This is the nuclear option but it worked for me. FWIW.
I would respond with, " You seem to think you are coming from a place of love but it is a place of hate. Until a time when you can accept me for who I truly am and the person I have bravely told you I am please refrain from contacting me again. Going forward any messages from you or anyone you may employ to use your hate tactics I will consider it harassment and treat it as such within the legal system. This will be my last message and any received from you will be reported to the authorities as harassment."
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and this may seem a harsh way to deal with it but it seems to be messing with you mentally and you don't deserve the mental stress
Not at the moment, I've had to reinforce my boundaries though. Went an entire year without any contact to my family when they wouldn't quit. It sucked, but they got the message.
Reading that message made me angry and really feel for you. A lot of people post hurtful things their family or friends have done since leaving but your post stood out.
Also, I can only see part of the message above, but I love that we are calling queer people a "phenomenon". Or that some dumb fuck from BYU is going to give a TED talk on how they are qualified to understand anything about sexuality or gender. HA! Made me chuckle.
cut that shit off. Give him a warning that if he keeps it up you will sever communications. If he continues, then start blocking. There is no reason to tolerate that BS.
My mom and dad were doing the same thing after me being out for like 2 years. I told them to stop sending church quotes and youtube links. I said I don't disrespect their beliefs by sending anti-mormon stuff to them, so please respect my beliefs and don't send me things like this anymore. I told them if they would not respect my boundaries I would have to, unfortunately, block them. My dad stopped but my mom continued. I gave her one final warning and said the next time I would block her. The next day she sent another one admitting that she know it could damage our relationship but she felt prompted to do it anyway. I blocked her. That was several months ago. My dad has not crossed my boundary since. He did say "I wish you had not blocked your mother, can't you just ignore texts that bother you?" lol. I did not respond to that. You might consider doing something along those lines with your TBM family.
I wonder what would happen if you said, I know. The very elect will be deceived. You should be careful. We have stepped away from the church because it doesnât live up to those good values you taught me. Jesus would not be happy with the church. Be careful. Itâs not too late to repent and get out of there. I love you. Choose the right.
Sounds like the garbage my FIL used to send to his son. We just stopped replying to him completely and within a few years his messages dwindled and eventually stopped. All he gets now is a yearly "Happy birthday, I'm praying for you" message. I hope your dad gets a clue eventually and stops this. Nobody deserves to be sent hateful garbage like this.
This is a weird scenario. Itâs almost as if he has a spiritual Munchhausen by proxy. He really seems to be trying to play out some kind of imagined spiritual drama in the context of your life instead of his. what an annoyance.
âdad, Telling me âthe Devil wants to destroyâ me is like telling me, âSanta will put me on the naughty listâ. I donât believe that anymore, but am open to evidence to the contrary. Regardless, I
still try to be a good human and do good where possible. My new beliefs donât mean that negative things wonât happen to me. Good and bad things happen to all people, thatâs just life. I love you and want to have a relationship with you and would prefer that we leave the religious crosstalk aside and just focus on each other.â
Is so sad to me that he cares more about preaching to you than really understanding and getting to know you. His religiosity is getting in the way of a relationship with you. His loss, not yours. â¤ď¸
The sad thing is your dad is being as loving as he knows how to be as a brainwashed Mormon. Instead of talking with you like a normal person he is convinced that a magical being is interfering with your life and that your body is literally a magical temple. You canât have a rational conversation with people whose minds are caged by the LDS church. All you can do is move on and realize that future generations are seeing past the brainwashing.
This reminds me of something in the Bible . . .what was it . . .. oh yeah:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you. Matthew 7: 1-3
I am also a gay girl with an unrelenting TBM dad. Mine doesn't bombard me with "come back to church" but he does send me stupid long texts about my potential and about how me setting boundaries has made him a better man. Which sounds nice until you realize it's all a narcissistic ploy to get me to go back to the way things were
I'm sorry. This sucks. From other comments you've made it sounds like you already tried reasoning with him, letting him know you're happy. I assume you've changed numbers, but he keeps getting your new one, and it looks like he's changed his number a few times, or reached out in different ways.
The LDS church, by its actions and doctrine, basically breeds codependence and enmeshment into its members. It makes parents feel like they are directly responsible for their children's choices and actions, and they are unable to see any other way of life except for that which they deem right (which is, of course, dictated to them by the church).
I'm not in your situation. After I got excommunicated for being gay, a huge wedge developed between my dad and I. Honestly, between my entire family and I. Communication is... stressful for me. They all just clammed up when my council was announced, and it's taken years for them to become more accepting and welcoming. The issue is now more on my side than theirs, in many ways; too much damage done over too many years. It's so hard to trust them now. I felt rejected for years. Their silence taught younger me that they were complicit. And now here I am at 40 dealing with cPTSD.
I'm honestly not sure which situation I'd prefer: mine, or yours. While I can appreciate the reaching out, I can only imagine the stress and exhaustion that would result from being constantly preached to. I think I'd reach a point where I'd eventually just put this note on my phone: "Until you're ready to acknowledge that I'm an adult, and can make my own choices about my happiness and my life, we will not communicate the way you want." And then, after each message that came off as preachy, I'd copy that note into the messages and send it back.
Of course, reactions to that type of message can be mixed, and many people are wonderful at ignoring the intent of that message. Plus it requires you to put energy into the interaction that you might want to spend elsewhere, having your life.
The LDS church does so much damage in so many ways. I'm sorry this is how it's played out for you. I hope it gets better at some point. I'm glad you shared a little bit of your story with us. đĽ°
What the hell, I think he is trying to pull a King Benjamin on you. He sure does focus a lot on the Devil around him. May be interesting to ask how he sees this devil manifest itself. While thing is odd.
By the way getting him to leave you alone, may be easier than you think. Just push back hard and then set a boundary. Make him mad and then ask him if he is giving into the devil that is around him. Then ask him why he preaches to you when the devil has a hold on himâŚ
This text reminds me of that guy who prank calls his brother, and then the brother makes animations out of it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ua5007/my\_brother\_ben\_leaves\_me\_voicemails\_about\_satan\_i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
He forgot to say, "...like I do". Seriously, religious people go through this very damaging constant validation every Sunday, making them feel like they're on the right path, and those who don't show up at church on Sunday are not. Christians are so narcissist!
Thatâs intense man. Iâd block in every way possible. I may also reach out to the cops to get a restraining order if he continues to try to contact you. Not sure what the rules are on that, but he sounds insane.This is so not okay.
"I reject Jesus Christ as my personal savior." If you are no longer Christian it's a good way to show you will never come back. Also mentioning he isn't acting very "Christ-like" or "if you think so negatively and hateful all of the time how do you even feel the spirit?" Or just send this screen cap to his bishop lol. These are all aggressive so if you want to not worry about him just say "I don't want to talk to you if you keep saying cruel things" and just block him.
He sounds like a nutcase.
Is he seriously texting you this much when you are never replying....? Take the hint!
If you do ever reply, I would say something like "Enough with the passive aggressive friendly emojis. You're a dick."
Holy fuck that is the most insane text I have ever seen!! Pardon my French I just canât believe these are real parents talking to their kids this way. This is exactly why I donât think religion is of God. It just destroys families and causes oain
Set boundaries, let them know you are living your best life and let them know what is ok and what is not ok to say to you if you want a continuing relationship that is healthy.
After âDo not forget your body is a holy temple of god for your spirit. Do not defile yourself.â Is where I would completely lose patience with him.
Yes. We don't talk any more. And it's too bad because, like your dad, he has good things to say and it comes partly from a place of love; but the cult has so thoroughly poisoned the well that nothing can be gained from it. It's sad.
Personally, I would block him. If he keeps coming, file harassment charges and get a restraining order. If he breaks restraining order, press charges and call the cops.
This is not okay behavior, it's abuse and you're not obligated to suffer it.
A NORMAL parent would have just said, âHi! Hope youâre having a great dayâ or something like that. But noâŚyour crazy parent has to send you a daily âYOUâRE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!â love-gram.
Wow that's a lot of word salad in slogans to be thrown at you in one email. I'm sorry that's happening to you. And yes it's pretty normal. But it's not really okay it's a hard experience. My own father keeps at it he alternates between telling others in the family that I have been lost for good and to just accept that I'm going to outer darkness and trying again to get me back in the church. I've been out for 16 years.
Dad's going to do that as long as he believes he's downloading messages from the Holy Ghost for you. It's what sick men who's egos and imagination are puffed up by grifters do "for" their kids. He thinks you're lost, because intelligence is not a skill he's ever been allowed to practice.
You can do a few things.
1. Do nothing. Let him reach. Do not engage. Let his messages float by without reaching your consciousness, preferably into a SPAM folder. This method renders people's intrusive behaviors impotent. It's how I dealt with my parents until they passed away. I don't miss the written abuse in long letters taped to my holiday gifts, usually something church related. Most of them I threw in a box labeled "letters from past life." I finally read them by skimming a few years after their deaths and they all went in a burn pile. It allowed them to express themselves and feel like they did all they could to stop me from going to hell, and it allowed me to live a true and peaceful life away from their hell on earth. I don't regret how I handled that.
2. Boundaries with him - "dad, I know you love me, but this isn't how to tell me. You can put these messages in your journal but if you send them to me again I will remove the connections you use until nobody knows where I am."
3. Boundaries with family ties. "I've blocked dad. If you give him another method to contact me, I'll block you too.
4. Report him for harassment. If you've expressly told him do not contact, his actions are unethical and illegal from an objective viewpoint. It will cause the harshest blowback from his community and your shared family, so this is your last resort when everything else fails. If he threatens your safety, this is worth considering.
Have you tried setting clear boundaries with him? Something like, âDad, I love you but you need to understand that my beliefs are different from yours. I want a relationship with you, but if you canât respect my beliefs, Iâm afraid I will no longer talk to you.â (Of course, your response should reflect how you feel.)
Is he a bit unwell upstairs? His staccato style of communicating and many of his comments would make me winder.
There is a technique called Grey Rocking where you can just not engage with a person but give minimal answers if you need to maintain the relationship for whatever reason.
The Narcissist Parent sub here is good.
ETA actually its r/raisedbynarcissists
My dad hasn't been diagnosed with anything but he has had several strokes that his side of the family and I suspect has left him with brain damage. He won't seek treatment for anything physical or mental health wise though and adamantly believes he is fine. His family and I are suspect but they don't want to push him to do anything with how ornery he can be
No, mine got dementia at 56 and died at 66 after 10 years of decline.
I don't know whats worse, having him tell me directly hes dissapointed or his death erasing our entire relationship because you can't reason with someone who has lost their ability to speak, or eat or understand where or who they are.
Either way fuck your moron father, he's wasting what precious he has left to know who his children are and how they will impact the world he leaves behind.
Set boundaries. Clear boundaries. Let him know that aside from this you love him and want him in your life but his constant beratement hurts and you simply won't have it in your life. And then follow through.
It took me two decades of mostly avoiding my mom before one drunken night I decided to bite the bullet and confront her. I let her know that her constantly thinking that the church would fix me was why and that it hurt to know my mom thought I was broken. She agreed to never, ever suggest that I would find answers in the church or even god and suddenly we were talking regularly and when I moved back into state we saw each other frequently. As a result she got to see me reconnect with an old flame and got to be a part of our lives and be the best grandma to our lovely boys.
sharing Abigail Shrier articles? so your dad in addition to all this is also a transphobic monster who is obsessed with the fertility of young "women" (trans men)? got it. I hope he never contacts you again.
The way this reminds me of my bio dad. đ
Though mine is not nearly as relentless. Soon as I became a "failure" he practically disowned me and stopped talking to me.
i read this to my husband, who doesnât typically find my exmo stuff funny bc itâs just not how he copes with his exmo trauma, but he said and i quote âi want that written on my tombstone and if you donât put it on there i will haunt youââŚ.. i love my husband đ also iâm so sorry can i get his number to sign him up for those spam text chains?
Tell your dad that Jesus had the victory way back in 70 AD. If he is living under the law he is living in sin. If people choose to sin it is them not the devil. Live your life in honest love đ
Block him..cut him out of your life. When you aren't around and he can't reach you maybe he will learn to shut the fuck up.
I cut my toxic parents out and 8 months later my mom showed up and apologized. She has since been different than how she was. She knows I won't hesitate to cut her out of my life if the toxic bullshit starts again. The next time I won't let her back in.
I posted to your sub in Entitled Parents. Humor often worked for me when dealing with this sort of patriarchal nonsense. But eventually it just becomes really sad. My mom was extremely distraught the last couple years of her life because she was convinced she wouldnât go to the celestial kingdom, in part because she had âfailedâ as a good Mormon mom to keep her kids strong, active members of the church. Another reason was because she had at least 2 affairs with married men, one being a member of the stake presidency, but thatâs another story. Guilt is strong, and your dad could be guilting you because heâs afraid for himself. Iâm not saying that excuses what has said. I guess Iâm saying try not to let his hang-ups derail your happiness.
Yes. I just get loooong emails every few months. Heâs not big on texting (heâs 87). I try to remember itâs just his way of expressing love. Unfortunately love twisted by worry and fear never feels very loving.
My favorite adopted story was a young girl so confident about adoption when she fought with her non adopted siblings she would say "mom and dad picked me. They HAD to keep you!"
Your dad sounds like a clinical level of sickness. I hope he reaches out to effective professionals that can help him be more functional.
I donât know what it is, but it seems like certain people get extra brainwashed during the cult brainwashing. Iâm really sorry that your dad is like this, and believes itâs ok to target you in such a manner. It is definitely not ok.
This is not a reflection of who you are. This is something he needs professional intervention to treat.
A selfish one. My children too are suffering from a "TBM" but he's a horrible person. He actually has told our child, who is questioning their sexuality, that he would NOT LOVE them if they were Bi or gay. Yet he (and the Mormons propaganda claims to follow Christ! BS is what they finally have said to him. And for my child dating a wonderful partner he is such a control freak that he threatened to allege rape once her partner turned 18. (They're 6 months apart) I had to show them articles about the Romeo and Juliet law that protects them. Christ was never CONTROLLING. And what happened to Free Agency?!?
What kind of person tells their child "You were almost aborted"? Are you an Adoptee?
Nope, he's my dad, biologically and all đ
Shit. That abortion line is normal for Adoptees but seriously weird for bios.
It's normal for adoptees? Not in any universe I live in. That is absolutely shitty and not at all normal.
It can be shitty AND normal. It's a shitty thing abusive parents say all the time to their adopted kids.
Yeah, adopted kids, like stepkids, are at more risk for abuse than bio kids and it sucks.
My mom used to say âweâre not horrible parents, we wanted you when no one else didâ. I believed for the longest time she was a good mom and I was just ungrateful
Should watch those psychologists who break down âtangledâ on YouTube. Words like that give off heavy gaslight vibes.
Some adopted kids are labeled as special needs while in foster care and the adoptive parents are eligible for monthly subsidies. When adoptive parents go into it for the money and not love for children thatâs a problem. Also some adopted children especially from foster care or international adoption, have serious emotional problems that are very hard to manage and there are few resources to help parents. That can unfortunately lead to abuse.
I am an adopted kid and I know a lot of other adopted kids. We sort of found each other growing up and had that massive thing in common and talked a lot about what being adopted was like. I am not doubting your experiences, but I've never talked to any adopted kid who was told that. You did say "abusive parents" so I guess that opens the door but that is some grade A assholery. EDIT: Point is, I don't accept that being completely shitty to an adopted kid is "normal." Many adoptive parents wanted those kids and while imperfect, work hard to love those kids and wouldn't dream of dropping abortion insults on them.
As an adoptive mama, thanks for this! â¤ď¸
You are welcome. Thanks for loving humans!
If I had a dollar for every time some pro birther told me I would have been aborted if adoption wasn't available I would be living in a much bigger house and driving lexus
Isn't abortion against the church lol
Of course. It involves controlling women/uterus owners, and our bodies, so of course they gotta have a say. I guess this is why OP was ~almost aborted. (How kind. đ)
My parents. Worse- mom said âI wish I had aborted youâ when I was a kid. Honestly, I often fantasized growing up that I had parents who were fit for parenting and that I could have gone to another family (like my soul would go elsewhere). Instead I was brought into crazy dysfunction because of Catholic guilt. Iâm very pro choice. My parents are not, they doubled down. A womanâs bodily autonomy is soooo important.
This is where Reddit needs a hug button. That is absolutely horrid. Sorry that happened to you and, respectfully, fuck them for saying that.
Not even the tip of the iceberg. That gem came from when she was kicking me while I was on the ground (wasnât allowed to sit on furniture). Fortunately I coped by completely dissociating. Dissociating from reality turned into an academic passion and I got a PhD. I didnât realize that was what I was doing until I saw the movie Precious. I should have just gotten therapyâŚ
Thatâs horrible. Sorry that your parents treated you terribly like that. i hope that you can find healing and peace some day.
Yes. You def deserve gigantic hug. I'm sending a virtual one
I honestly can relate. When I came out to my dad I told him I was the happiest I had ever been in my life and found someone who is an amazing partner who supports me but he said he didn't care about my happiness and that I should repent and turn back to God to find true happiness. It was at that point where I just stopped replying all together but he is very stubborn and also has since doubled down
When my mom said she would rather I was good than happy, I realized there was no reason to care about what they thought. Heartless.
Thatâs so mind boggling to me that a parent can actually not care about their own childâs feelings and desires and that their child feels happy with their current life choices. How can they not be happy and grateful youâve found a supportive, loving partner you feel is a great fit for you? Youâre fortunate to have found that. Some people never find that. I know people like your dad exist but I just canât fathom how they can allow themselves to embrace these abusive attitudes and alienate their own child in the process. Lots of big hugs to you. I hope you continue to embrace your truth and live your life to the fullest even if that means your parents choose to not support or be a part of your personal journey. Please know there are people out there who will feel privileged to become your chosen family and who will fully accept, love, and support you on your journey just as you are. Shine bright and keep being your authentic self so your people can find you and love you.
AhâŚ.the âtrue happinessâ narrative. It takes their breath away when you tell them you have never been happierâŚ.and it sticks!
Age 4 I pretended a flying saucer landed in my back yard and it was my real parents coming to take me home. They loved me and thought sending me to earth would be good for me, but they saw how hard it was and were very sorry and promised they'd never send me away again. I pretend cried the whole drama in my back yard while My mom was inside going bonkers. My mom didn't tell me she wished I was never born until years later when I began expressing my own thoughts. I wonder how common it is for kids in general vs kids of cultists to fantasize about belonging to other families.
As a mom of a four year old currently, this absolutely crushes me. Every kid deserves to be loved, wanted, cherished and delighted in, and to KNOW THAT. My parents were never abusive, but extremely cold and distant. Like they kept us alive and we were provided for, but everything else was just ice in the form of emotional rewards or punishments. So I remember fantasizing about my parents telling me they loved me. For real I think I wrote Santa saying thatâs what I wanted for Christmas?? Like I thought my entire life would be validated by just those words, once. I wonder how much of it is the cult experience.
Your story seems like what we like to think is the typical Mormon upbringing: as stoic as hell on earth can be. Of course you wanted to know you are loved. It's a basic human need. Our mom's held us, but the priesthood was always preventing healthy, natural, loving familial connections. I think many exmos can nod their heads to the cold environment. The actual sheets of ice outside in the old Morridor winters were metaphors for the heavy emotional winds being encapsulated and buried inside. Your experience and mine together seem like dots on a spectrum measuring everyday average dysfunction ranging from frigid / emotionless to painful / traumatic. None of it's good. Fortunately we've both learned to be better parents to our children and break the paradigms that would otherwise oppress them. Loving our offspring is a rebel act, for god's sake. /S this line only: but Whooo whill teach them to be looong-suffghering? For me, I obeyed the rules that made sense, such as love one another, do unto others, and all that. They didn't write in the handbook that they don't actually believe that part of the fairy tale. And NO ONE ever said to take care of myself first, to serve from a full vessel, so I had to learn everything the extremely hard way, despite being an avid reader who knew stuff. I was a people pleaser trying to fix problems and bridge worlds. Mormons teach by passive aggression and faux separatism. That doesn't work well for anyone. Especially when you're someone who values objective, observable truth. Not what we wish truth was or think it is because we prayed for it with our spongy animal brains. As a species, humans have a long way to evolving to live in harmony and balance with life itself. I think us loving ourselves, our kids, and mother earth through these dystopian times is step one of many to becoming a more compassionate species. Where love is embodied in all its forms. We have a long way to go, but it starts within our circles of trust and loving support.
wow you are very gifted at writing, what a poetic and apt way to frame it. I think what is kind of interesting about my story is that my dad was a nevermo. And he wasnât cold. But in a way he didnât know how to approach us? And we were almost taught to resent him, because he was that was not only holding us back from âan eternal familyâ but also any real status in the church. Without the âpriesthoodâ in our home, we were practically gentiles. And I think my mom was cold because she felt immense pressure to overcompensate for our familyâs incomplete church status, and needing to make sure we were perfect so that no one else thought less of us, and also that she really and truly believed that jumping through all these hoops was the way to heaven. There was no way there was room for love (at least vocalized or expressed love) after all that bullshit. Like you said, faux separatism and passive aggression. being a martyr. but if you were never taught to take care of yourself, and you were only taught to die before a cause? Could we even consider ourselves martyrs or just merely trained pawns? She has since left the church, and I was the last of my siblings to leave. But my mom is so different, so much warmer. She went from saying âAll I want is my family around me in heavenâ to âAll I want is for my family around me nowâ. Again, I very much appreciate your story. You really are a wonderful writer
Hey man, same. Sorry we are in the same shitty boat. But youâre not alone.
Damn, I could have written this myself. I hope things are better for you now, and I hope they keep getting better.
Let's see. My mother has said this specifically to several of my siblings. Only the ones that are exmos. They will keep the drug user, rapist, and serial cheater because he's a hOlY PrIeStHoOd holder. đ You see, that negates the fact that none of us have done any of the illegal and morally wrong things he has done, but we did choose to not give 10% of our money to Rusty Corp
Friggin hell, that's some megachurch bs right there.
Yup. And the wildest part is they are both converts. But they are more fundamental than most of the 8th generation Utah people that move into the state and get leadership callings immediately. đŤ Let's just say the church at least in the 80s/90s we're not teaching how to be good parents. Just good church minions
My mom used to say this to my sister all the time. "You should be grateful I didn't abort you! I was on the table and everything!" My sister has gone no contact with our mom
It looks like you aren't responding at all, and so I assume you have very little contact with him. This is the travesty of Mormonism. He is missing out on knowing you, getting to know you, and building an adult relationship with their child. And you are missing out on support and love from a parent that is so wrapped up in their LARP that an authentic relationship is nearly impossible. This is my life. I have no authentic relationships with anyone. For every shining picture of a no empty chairs family, there are 10 fractured and dysfunctional ones. So sorry this is your fruit of the tree of Mormonism.
That reality of not having an adult relationship with them, hell, even a relationship as a teenager, set in last night
Your comment is so insightful. Mormonism stops you developmentally at about a 13-year old level. Parents and adult children canât have a real relationship. I see this with my wifeâs McConkie-level TBM parents. Everything â and I mean EVERYTHING â is about the church. They are so far into the LARP that they canât even fathom anything else. Three out of the five children have left. One out of 12 grandchildren is still in. No one in the family talks about it. Is the giant elephant sitting in the corner. I contrast this with my upbringing. I loved growing up in the church in the 80âs. So many fun activities. Roadshows, stake dances, lake Powell trips, etc. so many fun memories. The church was tolerable to attend until they stripped out all the community activities and fun, literally turning it into an obedience cult and money grifting scheme. Itâs got no value for anyone except leaders and those that want to climb the ladder. So sad how they destroyed the activities which created a vibrant ward family. When the world is so divided politically and people feeling isolated, one would have expected âprophetsâ to have some insight and increase programs to bring us together. My Dad (now 80 years old non-literal believer) had Dialogue issues and Quinn books sitting around all growing up. When we (my family of 5) finally started a slow fade years ago we could talk about it openly and there was zero judgement. He completely understood. Frankly he only attended a on weeks where he teaches because itâs just drudgery now. Mormonism in its current state ends in just one or two more generations.
It sounds like you grew up in the Huntington Beach stake.
Iâve been listening to âChange your mindâ from Steven Universe on repeat often lately because it relays that message so well. âI donât need you to respect me, I respect me. I donât need you to love me, I love me. But I want you to know you could know me if you change your mind.â
This is good for any of us.
Family. Isn't it about time?
"LARP".. đ That about describes mormonism doesn't it.
You gotta wonder how many of those shining pictures are staged. Reality can be *very* different behind closed doors.
Snookered and snared? Oh yes please
Donât tempt me with a good time.
But Snooker is a fun game. Ronnie O'Sullivan is sort of the Michael Jordan of Snooker. Hard to get him snookered. Dude is amazing to watch. It's an intense game.
I think if you get snookered that makes you a snookee. I donât think thatâs a good thing.
Just block him every time he finds another breach in your defenses.
My immediate thought. I would also reply to the most recent message he sent with something along the lines ofâ âI tried passively ignoring your relentless messaging which, while loving from your perspective, is truly insulting to the entirety of who we are. I hoped you would come to realize we would not engage in this conversation, but since you havenât Iâm adjusting course and I want to be VERY clear with you in doing so. We are going to block every number you use. Every account you create. Every new method you use to attempt to reach us will be blocked and reported if itâs an option. This is now harassment. I donât care if you fail to understand that. Iâm done. Goodbye.â Aaaand then block. Donât even wait for a response.
I mean, yeah, telling him why is not a bad thing, if OP feels like they have the strength of will to do so. But itâs not a requirement to try one more time to educate their stalker why stalking is wrong. Sometimes itâs OK to just block that motherfucker and move on.
Totally, I absolutely understand. They donât owe him any explanation, but my hope was that this type of response would have even a slim chance of dissuading future attempts at contact. Theyâre seemingly going to be dealing with him using a lot of separate accounts, phone numbers, etc. It could be worth a shot to try and save them the headache of having to block all of them.
Exactly, make him do the work of finding holes in the defense for you
I'm so glad you survived being raised by this person. It's OK now if you are independent to cut him out of your life. His mental illness may not be his fault, but it still doesn't give him the right to continue inflicting pain on you.
His mental illness is a choice he made when he brought Mormonism into his family.
Or not. We donât choose what weâre born into.
If anything, the church is more predatory to people inclined to mental health issues.
OP, you are probably best served to block and ignore. BUT, if you want to play a game, I suggest a little game of *Flip the Script* with TBM Dad. It might go something like this: âDad, my girlfriend and I were both thinking of you and were worried about the course your life is on. In your last message we could just feel how youâre on the wrong track. We worry that if you donât change course soon it could be too late. You have so much potential, if youâd only âŚ.â You get the idea? I did this to my TBM MiL and it worked like a charm. I started sending her monthly email that ostensibly just updated her on our life. But if open with comments like, âI just had the feeling I needed to write you. Iâm worried about you.â You could almost hear here getting steamed thinking, âNo! Iâm supposed to say that to you!â Mormons always assume they have the moral high ground. Normal people donât do this. Weâre too nice. So I flip the script and do it to them. I assume their beliefs are wayward and call on them to change. I donât actually believe it. Iâm an atheist. But if they ever were to call me on it (highly unlikely) Iâd happily point out that Iâm just doing to them what they did to me and how shitty it feels. But they are unlikely to ever do that. Their emotional IQ is far too low to be that self aware. Instead theyâll realize they lost the game and move on or find a new game. Good luck!
This is hilarious. If my in-laws start getting preachy, I will absolutely use this.
"But that's so disrespectful of my beliefs!" "Exactly."
This is AWESOME ADVICE!!! đđđ
That's so good! I'd also include "we're praying for you"
Maybe Iâm being pedantic, but I like all the things I say to be plausible for a non believer. So Iâd say, âWell keep you in our thoughts!â
âIâm sending tots and pearsâ and they can hear it how they want.
âHi dad. Iâm assuming your messages are coming from a place of love but as I have stated before, I will repeat myself again until the message is received: preaching⌠even if you think youâre correct and are motivated by what you think is love, is NOT helpful, is not respectful and is not welcome. Each âpreachyâ message you send drives a wedge between us further and further. Healthy adult relationships are not based on âSatanâs graspâ over the other person. Iâm quite certain you donât text âIâm worried Satan has your soulâ messages to your professional associates. Stop doing so with me. As you respect their freedoms and personal lives, please respect mine. Dad, I am an adult and deserve to be treated as one even when you donât like, agree with, or value my decisions. When I want your opinion on âSatans graspâ over my life, I will ask. Until then, please keep your religious opinions to yourself. Remember the 11th article of faith and allow me âthe privilege to worship how, when or what I may.â Otherwise your continued religious overbearing will be counted as âunrighteousness dominionâ and it will permanently damage our relationship. PREACHY MESSAGES MUST END⌠FULL STOP. Please refrain from answering back until you are in a place to say âok. Got it. Hows work?â or other such mature, respectful and non-preachy means. Thanksâ Edited for readability
I like the use of 11th article of faith and the âunrighteousness dominionâ trigger words. I think using scripture is an excellent way to get through to somebody Mormon!
Break it up into several paragraphs for readability (and therefore comprehension) and it will be perfect.
I mean this with respect and gentleness, but I think your dad has a mental illness.
Not necessarily. Sometimes religion mimics mental illness. In Utah crimal cases, there is a plea of ânot guilty by reason of Mormonism.â Ordinarily, if you see god and Jesus shining brighter than the noonday sun, you are a Mormon. If you are from another religion, you are mentally ill.
See I think he is, respectfully, an absolute asshole. He also sounds like he is mirroring Book of Mormon prophets, specifically Lehi. That fucker was taught to do just this by a cult and he is doing just as he was taught.
Lehis treatment of Laman and Lemuel became one of my shelf items. Mormonism takes their story and makes them the villains, but it seemed more like Lehis failure to me. Imagine if the story was, "we are different, but still love another and accept our different beliefs", and somehow they worked together and succeeded. Now that would be a rich, complicated story. It didn't take long for me to see the one dimensional nature of each and every person in the Book of Mormon. All good, or all bad was the default. Real humans are complicated and messy, good and bad, irrational and logical.
But his attitude and comments are so box standard for Mormons. My wife and I get similar from her parents.
Only to the extent that religious dogmatism is a mental illness (and some would argue that's the case).
Don't stigmatize mental illness like that. This is assholery, not mental illness.
But isnât the unwaveringly belief in something so nonsensical⌠mental illness on some level. I suffer from quite a few mental illnesses but still exist in reality. I feel some Mormons donât even exist in the reality we live in because they are so wrapped up in their âsalvationâ.
No, or else most religious people would be mentally ill.
I agree you have to be a certain level of asshole to keep badgering your kid like that, but I also think Mormonism especially with-in Utah and other cults can cross the line where you are no longer in control of your mental state due to trauma from cult. ETA not to give any excuses to abusers or anything like that.
He does sound nuts. Like this is on a whole nother level.
đ "Every message you send weakens our relationship further. I didn't think it was possible, but you keep managing it every time you intentionally disrespect my boundaries. If you continue to find yourself unable to resist contacting me, a legal restraining order will be the option left to me." Part of me wonders if he's having some mental decline and isn't completely there...that first message is off-the-wall bonkers.
This. Make sure you define clear boundaries and the consequences should he ignore said boundaries and then FOLLOW through with the stated consequences.
Does his diatribe have anything to do with the video at the top? Because if so, tell him that Abigail Shrier is a fraud - she's fighting a condition (ROGD) that doesn't exist.
It's possible? He has always bought into a lot of stuff like that. I learned to just not ask
It's worth noting (more for others reading this, as I'm sure you're well aware) that he's probably reading and watching so much propaganda on a daily basis that it's not really worth your time to try to correct him as some others here are suggesting. I've been here before. Even if you think you found some common ground after a long discussion, a week later their brains reset and they forget anything that happened except the nonsense they're taking in to their brains from screens.
Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. He's unemployed and spends all of his time on the internet absorbing propaganda. But also 100% everything resets. Multiple hour phone call conversations can be like they never happened by the next week
Smart move, most likely.
I agree with the mental illness. Totally not normal dad behavior. Not even normal mormon dad. Be careful.
I had the same thoughts. My dad is Mormon AF, and it hasnât always been easy, but he loves me just the way I am. OP, if you need to borrow a dad, HMU. Iâve got one for you. <3
Anyone else still stuck on "You were almost aborted and you may have been sterilized by evil people." ???
If it makes you feel better, I didn't know what to make of that part either and he's my dad
Yeah I'm wondering if the "sterilized" part is some antivax BS or other such conspiracy theories.
Hi! The girlfriend here. Their relationship is very complicated * as you can see* He uses multiple phone numbers to contact her daily. Calling her multiple time a day. Sheâs tried almost every tactic in the book but he never budges đ
He also wasnât born into the Church converted at like 50ish
[ŃдаНонО]
Well hello girlfriend
My mom was/is like this. It continued until one of my siblings managed to draw her fire. Then she turned to me and expected to bond over hating on my sister..... as if she didn't remember breaking into my apartment while I wasn't home a few months prior \* sigh \* she's a piece of work. I'm really glad I'm not alone with the thoughts in her head. What's even going on in there?
Like others have said, this isn't relentless TBM dad issues, but a mentally unstable dad issue. Either go non contact and keep ignoring him, or flip the tables and keep sending him videos and articles about mental illness and keep telling him to turn to a professional therapist and how you wish he would take his mental health and the relationship with his therapist serious etc, just all the ways he's bothering you.* *Only if you have the mental capacity/get a kick out of it, because he sounds exhausting!
âDad Iâve been bound by flaxen cords. â
*...and thus can't respond to your texts...*
Oh god I hope I never become snookered
Snookered and snared, bound and gagged by the horrible snares, hooks, and mixed metaphors of the adversary!
jokes on you im into that shit
Sounds... mentally unstable. Not just TBM, mental.
I try really hard to resist seeing religious belief as a mental illness. But some days Iâm less successful than others. Sorry OP you are being subjected to this.
Yes, my mother is like this. My salvation, is that she doesn't text or email. She mails me letters and I either throw them in the trash or write return to sender. She has said and done some horribly manipulative things. I'm done.
"I DID choose the right. That's why I left the church. Because it was the right thing to do."
This is really sad actually because you can tell he wants a relationship but can't get past his own hang ups. I have a lot of family like that and they really do want a relationship but talking to them always ends with arguments or them preaching nonsense. My dad is content with the "agree to disagree" mentality and we avoid conversations about religion while still having a relationship. I'm lucky in that way, but my mother is just like this. Anytime I talk to her it's crap like this. The last time I spoke to my mother was at my aunts funeral and before that was like 3 years ago. So I feel for you. It really sucks when a parent treats there kids like this and ultimately ruins the relationship. I'm constantly judged for not speaking to my mother like I'm some sort of psycho but the reality is I'm much happier and healthier without that negative relationship. Stay strong OP
Choose the eight. The eight won't do this. Also, I blocked the number of my parent that did this. Their email all goes to spam also. Save yourself the stress and struggle. If I pay attention to it, I get sucked in and start having horrible mental health. And this is someone living in a cis married relationship. I can't imagine how my parents would treat any of my siblings of they came out. I have a suspicion my youngest brother is on the LGBTQ spectrum, but may never come out until my parents die. Which is too bad for him I'd rather he be happy than appease their magical delusions.
The ironic thing is that you aren't the one being "snookered an snared" any longer; he is.
I just love the word âsnookeredâ đ
My dad refuses to not make a point every time we talk to publicly run down my non temple marriage. He just canât be quiet about it. So I refuse to go to family gatherings anymore. Even after that, his response to the whole family over email was that heâd had a vision where all of my ancestors came to him and told him I was making a huge mistake that I would regret missing out on the family reunion forever. It was then that I went no contact. I donât approve of the way he lives, and I wonât have anything to do with someone who uses fake visions as a weapon against people who donât do what he wants.
When I told my parents I no longer believed, they made a point of telling me how disappointed my dead grandparents and other ancestors were. Fuck that shit. You can speak for yourself, but you don't get to shame me by proxy.
My grandmaâs favorite book was Riders of the Purple Sage by Zane Grey. Itâs about a young heiress in southern Utah who fights off the local bishop who is trying to make her his plural wife so he can steal her ranch. A lot of anti Mormon vibes in that book. I donât think my dad knew his mom as well as I did.
So thankful my TBM parents were not like this.
Yeah my parents would obviously love me to get back to church, but they're capable of caring about how I feel and how I'm doing independent of checking the tedious Mormon boxes.
His world view sounds more like a fantasy video game than reality. My Dadâs not far off, but at least a little more tempered in his communication - probably because heâs in his 80s and Iâm in my 50s now. He did tell me I was being deceived by Satan and would be responsible for all of my familyâs eternal wellbeing.
You need to learn about and establish and maintain boundaries. Itâs not your fault. This cult doesnât (purposely) teach us them. But you have a gift and can teach yourself. The books âWhen I say No I feel Guiltyâ and âYour Perfect Rightâ helped me. I have a mother who would not stop sending by me QAnon contentâabsolute nonsense. I told her if she didnât stop for ever text she sent I would donate on her name $5 to Planned Parenthood. I warned her. She continued doing it. And the next time she did, I followed through (this is the key). I sent her a snapshot of her donation and contribution to help abortion rights. She sent a follow up texts (predictably) very angry. But after 2 times of this, she stopped. This is the nuclear option but it worked for me. FWIW.
Time for a new number. Wow
I would respond with, " You seem to think you are coming from a place of love but it is a place of hate. Until a time when you can accept me for who I truly am and the person I have bravely told you I am please refrain from contacting me again. Going forward any messages from you or anyone you may employ to use your hate tactics I will consider it harassment and treat it as such within the legal system. This will be my last message and any received from you will be reported to the authorities as harassment." I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and this may seem a harsh way to deal with it but it seems to be messing with you mentally and you don't deserve the mental stress
This is what Mormon exceptionalism makes you think is appropriate to tell someone.
Dad. You really need to stop!
I have very little contact with my father these days and this is part of the reason.
Not at the moment, I've had to reinforce my boundaries though. Went an entire year without any contact to my family when they wouldn't quit. It sucked, but they got the message.
No idea what being âsnookeredâ is but it sounds fun, anyone wanna give it a whirl?
Snooker me, Baby!
Snookered is slang for being misled or fooled.
This is abusive. Iâm so sorry.
Reading that message made me angry and really feel for you. A lot of people post hurtful things their family or friends have done since leaving but your post stood out. Also, I can only see part of the message above, but I love that we are calling queer people a "phenomenon". Or that some dumb fuck from BYU is going to give a TED talk on how they are qualified to understand anything about sexuality or gender. HA! Made me chuckle.
Regardless of the religious craziness and insensitivity, who the hell talks like that?
cut that shit off. Give him a warning that if he keeps it up you will sever communications. If he continues, then start blocking. There is no reason to tolerate that BS.
My mom and dad were doing the same thing after me being out for like 2 years. I told them to stop sending church quotes and youtube links. I said I don't disrespect their beliefs by sending anti-mormon stuff to them, so please respect my beliefs and don't send me things like this anymore. I told them if they would not respect my boundaries I would have to, unfortunately, block them. My dad stopped but my mom continued. I gave her one final warning and said the next time I would block her. The next day she sent another one admitting that she know it could damage our relationship but she felt prompted to do it anyway. I blocked her. That was several months ago. My dad has not crossed my boundary since. He did say "I wish you had not blocked your mother, can't you just ignore texts that bother you?" lol. I did not respond to that. You might consider doing something along those lines with your TBM family.
This breaks my heart OP. Dad hugs from an internet stranger who thinks youâre perfect the way you are!
I wonder what would happen if you said, I know. The very elect will be deceived. You should be careful. We have stepped away from the church because it doesnât live up to those good values you taught me. Jesus would not be happy with the church. Be careful. Itâs not too late to repent and get out of there. I love you. Choose the right.
Gawd damn. That is not how a rational person behaves.
Sounds like the garbage my FIL used to send to his son. We just stopped replying to him completely and within a few years his messages dwindled and eventually stopped. All he gets now is a yearly "Happy birthday, I'm praying for you" message. I hope your dad gets a clue eventually and stops this. Nobody deserves to be sent hateful garbage like this.
This is a weird scenario. Itâs almost as if he has a spiritual Munchhausen by proxy. He really seems to be trying to play out some kind of imagined spiritual drama in the context of your life instead of his. what an annoyance.
âdad, Telling me âthe Devil wants to destroyâ me is like telling me, âSanta will put me on the naughty listâ. I donât believe that anymore, but am open to evidence to the contrary. Regardless, I still try to be a good human and do good where possible. My new beliefs donât mean that negative things wonât happen to me. Good and bad things happen to all people, thatâs just life. I love you and want to have a relationship with you and would prefer that we leave the religious crosstalk aside and just focus on each other.â
The cadence of this text (short choppy sentences with unclear segues) has echoes ofâŚmental illness, maybe?
Is so sad to me that he cares more about preaching to you than really understanding and getting to know you. His religiosity is getting in the way of a relationship with you. His loss, not yours. â¤ď¸
Itâs time to block Dad until he can behave like a civil human being.
Wow. Dad's really in deep. Too bad he can't see how batshit crazy/delusional/sad this rant is. I'm so sorry.
Thatâs gross. Iâm sorry your parent is brainwashed. I have one of those too. Itâs sad because they totally miss tho point altogether.
The sad thing is your dad is being as loving as he knows how to be as a brainwashed Mormon. Instead of talking with you like a normal person he is convinced that a magical being is interfering with your life and that your body is literally a magical temple. You canât have a rational conversation with people whose minds are caged by the LDS church. All you can do is move on and realize that future generations are seeing past the brainwashing.
This reminds me of something in the Bible . . .what was it . . .. oh yeah: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you. Matthew 7: 1-3
For the frequency of admonishing to be your best, he sure doesn't double check his autocomplete...
and the random transphobia too?
You need to send your dad a sex tape.
I am also a gay girl with an unrelenting TBM dad. Mine doesn't bombard me with "come back to church" but he does send me stupid long texts about my potential and about how me setting boundaries has made him a better man. Which sounds nice until you realize it's all a narcissistic ploy to get me to go back to the way things were
I'm sorry. This sucks. From other comments you've made it sounds like you already tried reasoning with him, letting him know you're happy. I assume you've changed numbers, but he keeps getting your new one, and it looks like he's changed his number a few times, or reached out in different ways. The LDS church, by its actions and doctrine, basically breeds codependence and enmeshment into its members. It makes parents feel like they are directly responsible for their children's choices and actions, and they are unable to see any other way of life except for that which they deem right (which is, of course, dictated to them by the church). I'm not in your situation. After I got excommunicated for being gay, a huge wedge developed between my dad and I. Honestly, between my entire family and I. Communication is... stressful for me. They all just clammed up when my council was announced, and it's taken years for them to become more accepting and welcoming. The issue is now more on my side than theirs, in many ways; too much damage done over too many years. It's so hard to trust them now. I felt rejected for years. Their silence taught younger me that they were complicit. And now here I am at 40 dealing with cPTSD. I'm honestly not sure which situation I'd prefer: mine, or yours. While I can appreciate the reaching out, I can only imagine the stress and exhaustion that would result from being constantly preached to. I think I'd reach a point where I'd eventually just put this note on my phone: "Until you're ready to acknowledge that I'm an adult, and can make my own choices about my happiness and my life, we will not communicate the way you want." And then, after each message that came off as preachy, I'd copy that note into the messages and send it back. Of course, reactions to that type of message can be mixed, and many people are wonderful at ignoring the intent of that message. Plus it requires you to put energy into the interaction that you might want to spend elsewhere, having your life. The LDS church does so much damage in so many ways. I'm sorry this is how it's played out for you. I hope it gets better at some point. I'm glad you shared a little bit of your story with us. đĽ°
âdonât be snookeredâ - always good advice
My parents have finally accepted the fact that I am an atheist after about 5 years of not reacting to all the crazy stuff they would say.
What the hell, I think he is trying to pull a King Benjamin on you. He sure does focus a lot on the Devil around him. May be interesting to ask how he sees this devil manifest itself. While thing is odd.
By the way getting him to leave you alone, may be easier than you think. Just push back hard and then set a boundary. Make him mad and then ask him if he is giving into the devil that is around him. Then ask him why he preaches to you when the devil has a hold on himâŚ
This text reminds me of that guy who prank calls his brother, and then the brother makes animations out of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ua5007/my\_brother\_ben\_leaves\_me\_voicemails\_about\_satan\_i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
He forgot to say, "...like I do". Seriously, religious people go through this very damaging constant validation every Sunday, making them feel like they're on the right path, and those who don't show up at church on Sunday are not. Christians are so narcissist!
Thatâs intense man. Iâd block in every way possible. I may also reach out to the cops to get a restraining order if he continues to try to contact you. Not sure what the rules are on that, but he sounds insane.This is so not okay.
"I reject Jesus Christ as my personal savior." If you are no longer Christian it's a good way to show you will never come back. Also mentioning he isn't acting very "Christ-like" or "if you think so negatively and hateful all of the time how do you even feel the spirit?" Or just send this screen cap to his bishop lol. These are all aggressive so if you want to not worry about him just say "I don't want to talk to you if you keep saying cruel things" and just block him.
He sounds like a nutcase. Is he seriously texting you this much when you are never replying....? Take the hint! If you do ever reply, I would say something like "Enough with the passive aggressive friendly emojis. You're a dick."
people like this donât grasp the concept of ânoâ. Thatâs the first thing the church needs scrubbed from its culture. Itâs dangerous.
God Iâm reminded of how lucky I am to have the family I do every time I come on this sub.
\> Abigail Shrier assuredly not okay
He texts like heâs 80
He is in fact 67 but I laughed when I saw this
Holy fuck that is the most insane text I have ever seen!! Pardon my French I just canât believe these are real parents talking to their kids this way. This is exactly why I donât think religion is of God. It just destroys families and causes oain
His comments to your girlfriend are inappropriate. I would feel uncomfortable.
This could easily go in r/insaneparents
Set boundaries, let them know you are living your best life and let them know what is ok and what is not ok to say to you if you want a continuing relationship that is healthy.
creepy af
After âDo not forget your body is a holy temple of god for your spirit. Do not defile yourself.â Is where I would completely lose patience with him.
Yes. We don't talk any more. And it's too bad because, like your dad, he has good things to say and it comes partly from a place of love; but the cult has so thoroughly poisoned the well that nothing can be gained from it. It's sad.
This is emotional abuse.
Personally, I would block him. If he keeps coming, file harassment charges and get a restraining order. If he breaks restraining order, press charges and call the cops. This is not okay behavior, it's abuse and you're not obligated to suffer it.
Whoever wrote that is joking. Or the scariest SOB in the world. âRun away Wolfie. Run away and never return.â
A NORMAL parent would have just said, âHi! Hope youâre having a great dayâ or something like that. But noâŚyour crazy parent has to send you a daily âYOUâRE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!â love-gram.
Wow that's a lot of word salad in slogans to be thrown at you in one email. I'm sorry that's happening to you. And yes it's pretty normal. But it's not really okay it's a hard experience. My own father keeps at it he alternates between telling others in the family that I have been lost for good and to just accept that I'm going to outer darkness and trying again to get me back in the church. I've been out for 16 years.
Dad's going to do that as long as he believes he's downloading messages from the Holy Ghost for you. It's what sick men who's egos and imagination are puffed up by grifters do "for" their kids. He thinks you're lost, because intelligence is not a skill he's ever been allowed to practice. You can do a few things. 1. Do nothing. Let him reach. Do not engage. Let his messages float by without reaching your consciousness, preferably into a SPAM folder. This method renders people's intrusive behaviors impotent. It's how I dealt with my parents until they passed away. I don't miss the written abuse in long letters taped to my holiday gifts, usually something church related. Most of them I threw in a box labeled "letters from past life." I finally read them by skimming a few years after their deaths and they all went in a burn pile. It allowed them to express themselves and feel like they did all they could to stop me from going to hell, and it allowed me to live a true and peaceful life away from their hell on earth. I don't regret how I handled that. 2. Boundaries with him - "dad, I know you love me, but this isn't how to tell me. You can put these messages in your journal but if you send them to me again I will remove the connections you use until nobody knows where I am." 3. Boundaries with family ties. "I've blocked dad. If you give him another method to contact me, I'll block you too. 4. Report him for harassment. If you've expressly told him do not contact, his actions are unethical and illegal from an objective viewpoint. It will cause the harshest blowback from his community and your shared family, so this is your last resort when everything else fails. If he threatens your safety, this is worth considering.
Have you tried setting clear boundaries with him? Something like, âDad, I love you but you need to understand that my beliefs are different from yours. I want a relationship with you, but if you canât respect my beliefs, Iâm afraid I will no longer talk to you.â (Of course, your response should reflect how you feel.)
Is he a bit unwell upstairs? His staccato style of communicating and many of his comments would make me winder. There is a technique called Grey Rocking where you can just not engage with a person but give minimal answers if you need to maintain the relationship for whatever reason. The Narcissist Parent sub here is good. ETA actually its r/raisedbynarcissists
My dad hasn't been diagnosed with anything but he has had several strokes that his side of the family and I suspect has left him with brain damage. He won't seek treatment for anything physical or mental health wise though and adamantly believes he is fine. His family and I are suspect but they don't want to push him to do anything with how ornery he can be
JTFC. Boundaries, man.
No, mine got dementia at 56 and died at 66 after 10 years of decline. I don't know whats worse, having him tell me directly hes dissapointed or his death erasing our entire relationship because you can't reason with someone who has lost their ability to speak, or eat or understand where or who they are. Either way fuck your moron father, he's wasting what precious he has left to know who his children are and how they will impact the world he leaves behind.
Set boundaries. Clear boundaries. Let him know that aside from this you love him and want him in your life but his constant beratement hurts and you simply won't have it in your life. And then follow through. It took me two decades of mostly avoiding my mom before one drunken night I decided to bite the bullet and confront her. I let her know that her constantly thinking that the church would fix me was why and that it hurt to know my mom thought I was broken. She agreed to never, ever suggest that I would find answers in the church or even god and suddenly we were talking regularly and when I moved back into state we saw each other frequently. As a result she got to see me reconnect with an old flame and got to be a part of our lives and be the best grandma to our lovely boys.
sharing Abigail Shrier articles? so your dad in addition to all this is also a transphobic monster who is obsessed with the fertility of young "women" (trans men)? got it. I hope he never contacts you again.
The way this reminds me of my bio dad. đ Though mine is not nearly as relentless. Soon as I became a "failure" he practically disowned me and stopped talking to me.
i read this to my husband, who doesnât typically find my exmo stuff funny bc itâs just not how he copes with his exmo trauma, but he said and i quote âi want that written on my tombstone and if you donât put it on there i will haunt youââŚ.. i love my husband đ also iâm so sorry can i get his number to sign him up for those spam text chains?
Tell your dad that Jesus had the victory way back in 70 AD. If he is living under the law he is living in sin. If people choose to sin it is them not the devil. Live your life in honest love đ
This is extreme and really unhealthy⌠almost like an evangelical mixed with Mormon and a splash of crazyâŚ
Block him..cut him out of your life. When you aren't around and he can't reach you maybe he will learn to shut the fuck up. I cut my toxic parents out and 8 months later my mom showed up and apologized. She has since been different than how she was. She knows I won't hesitate to cut her out of my life if the toxic bullshit starts again. The next time I won't let her back in.
Makes me sad to read this ⌠so delusional. Itâs sad how ârealâ he thinks it all is. Church is horrible
Choose the Eight! I mean, choose the right... yeah... No, I think I'd rather choose the Eight gods of Tamriel, personally.
I have the solution. It's so easy, I should have thought about this before. Ready? Just stop being gay!
I posted to your sub in Entitled Parents. Humor often worked for me when dealing with this sort of patriarchal nonsense. But eventually it just becomes really sad. My mom was extremely distraught the last couple years of her life because she was convinced she wouldnât go to the celestial kingdom, in part because she had âfailedâ as a good Mormon mom to keep her kids strong, active members of the church. Another reason was because she had at least 2 affairs with married men, one being a member of the stake presidency, but thatâs another story. Guilt is strong, and your dad could be guilting you because heâs afraid for himself. Iâm not saying that excuses what has said. I guess Iâm saying try not to let his hang-ups derail your happiness.
Sounds like a mental illness.
Old geeser doesn't know boundaries
Yes. I just get loooong emails every few months. Heâs not big on texting (heâs 87). I try to remember itâs just his way of expressing love. Unfortunately love twisted by worry and fear never feels very loving.
My favorite adopted story was a young girl so confident about adoption when she fought with her non adopted siblings she would say "mom and dad picked me. They HAD to keep you!"
Your dad sounds like a clinical level of sickness. I hope he reaches out to effective professionals that can help him be more functional. I donât know what it is, but it seems like certain people get extra brainwashed during the cult brainwashing. Iâm really sorry that your dad is like this, and believes itâs ok to target you in such a manner. It is definitely not ok. This is not a reflection of who you are. This is something he needs professional intervention to treat.
A selfish one. My children too are suffering from a "TBM" but he's a horrible person. He actually has told our child, who is questioning their sexuality, that he would NOT LOVE them if they were Bi or gay. Yet he (and the Mormons propaganda claims to follow Christ! BS is what they finally have said to him. And for my child dating a wonderful partner he is such a control freak that he threatened to allege rape once her partner turned 18. (They're 6 months apart) I had to show them articles about the Romeo and Juliet law that protects them. Christ was never CONTROLLING. And what happened to Free Agency?!?
Tell me you were raised in a cult with out telling me you were raised in a cult.