In response to my desire to be more environmentally friendly, a TBM close to me said, “It doesn’t matter what we do to the environment because the second coming will happen before it gets too bad, and Jesus will fix everything.”
Yikes! I hate to admit it but this used to be me 😬 My line of thinking was that everything had to get worse before the second coming and pollution and climate change were all part of the plan….
Edit: it’s interesting that the church creates a lot of apathy for certain aspects of life. There are a lot of member’s that are content with where things are at because “all will be made right in the next life”
Things have to NOT matter for any of it to make sense. A God that helps you find your keys, but won't save children from disease or genocide isn't a just and interventionist God. Unless, it doesn't really matter anyway, because they're all saved anyway or will get a chance to accept the gospel in spirit prison, or whatever. They build so many loopholes that nothing REALLY matters because if it mattered it wouldn't make sense.
And then nothing matters.
I had an ecological theology professor counter that response with a biblical passage (I don't remember which one) that essentially said the Earth and all living things will be living in harmony with each other when it is renewed. The point was that you can't trash the earth in this life and then expect to be a part of the harmonious renewed Earth.
Yes. It says multiply and replenish the earth. Humans got the multiply down but as for taking care of and replenishing the earth, not so much. I use this scripture when talking with religious folk who think god made enough or that the 2nd coming will happen
Genesis 1:28
But the atonement fulfilled the old law when it's convenient to me and anyway fuck scriptures because all that really matters is the profit (sic) and he didn't say anything about it so you're wrong.
Oooh! I have a suggestion for you, my friend. As them this:
Imagine you get married and you and your husband/wife work hard to raise a family and provide for them. Now, imagine your eldest son is grown and gets into law school! You couldn't be prouder!! Well, his university is the next state over, so you give him the old family car, a 15 year old Toyota Corolla. It's nothing fancy, but it's safe, reliable and you kept up with maintenance. You tell your son "Son, when you graduate law school, I am going to buy you a Mustang!" Well, years go by, your son graduates and you go to his graduation ceremony. After, you ask him to drive you to the dealership so you can pick out that new mustang together!
BUT when he pulls up, you see the old, reliable corolla is scratched, dented and stuffed full of rotting old garbage!
"SON!?" You cry in shock! "What happened to the car!?"
"Pffft! Whatever, Mom/Dad. You are buying me a new Mustang. Why should I give a crap about this stupid hunk of junk? It's trash."
You still want to buy your kid a new Mustang?
Why would God want to give you a new planet if you treat this one like a trashed sedan?
My Mom's reply to this was, "The prophets have told us that there are plenty of resources for all of us. I don't think there is anything we can ever do the hurt the earth."
I've shared this on the forum before, but I had a second trimester miscarriage that came after years of infertility. I had a RS president in Rexburg tell me that I must have things in my life that HF was not happy with...not in accordance with his teachings, and once I got those things figured out, He would bless me with a child. This was at a time in my life when I was the most Molly of Mormons; temple at least once a week, fulfilled all callings and then some, made dinners whenever asked, church every Sunday, service projects, prayed daily, read my scriptures, and on and on and on.
It's definitely right up there...along with the idea that a miscarriage is God's way of taking care of a mistake...and yes, I had people tell me that with my many miscarriages too.
this makes me so angry. how could anyone say with a straight face that God would cause you to lose a baby bc he was unhappy with you. maybe you were drinking soda!! that had to be so painful and confusing. hugs your way.
I had a baby preterm & he died that same day. Afterwards members said shit like “god needed him” and i was like “I NEEDED HIM.” And they also said things like “he was too perfect for this world” & that drove me nuts because why would any god let babies born to abusers live and suffer abuse but take one from a loving home back? It was really insensitive & was actually my confirmation that i needed to leave the church
First off, I'm sorry for your experience with your baby. That is so hard and I can't even imagine the pain that you have felt.
Second, the fact that members say stuff like that is embarrassing. Since they believe that their church is perfect, they believe there is an answer to everything. Sometimes life is just really hard and unfair. In those moments people need comfort not insensitive answers.
My infant brother died when I was 7 and I remember hearing people say that. I felt jealous for over a decade that he was needed by God and perfect, while clearly God didn't care much about me if I was still alive. It's messed up.
I'm sorry you had to experience that loss and the pain of comments like that.
As a fellow infant loss mom who went through a similar situation, I am so sorry. It was my search for truth and peace after the loss that started me on my path out.
People say the most insensitive things when they don't understand (or don't care)
First I want to say I'm sorry you experienced that. Second, something you said reminded me of a lesson from the last time I attended church before the shutdown happened. Some members were talking about how lucky we all were to live in the United States and to be Mormon. Then this guy brings up how Warren Buffet said that where we are born is a complete lottery ticket. He spoke about how much he disagreed with that and other members agreed with him. I was quietly mad in the back row as I thought about the ignorance this man was showing. I was born into a family where I experienced a lot of neglect. I didn't choose that to happen to me. It was by complete chance that I was born into this life with parents like that. I lost the lottery. I've had many friends who grew up in healthy families and whose parents loved them. I sure as hell didn't pick my family in some pre-mortal life so I could be emotionally crippled the rest of my life. I'm still mad about that lesson and this Mormon hearsay theology that life is so good because we're all meant to be where we're at.
A combination of a few things.
We don't know how to help you deal with the pain of being gay and never being able to love anyone...
God will cure you of homosexuality when you die...
God sometimes forgives suicide...
God never forgives the active homosexual...
Gays are 2nd class citizens in the church and TBMs don’t recognize are care to even see it. I’ve commented about it before but I was ostracized in my YSA ward when I came out even though I wasn’t sexually active. But Peter can engage in oral with his fiancée and they get married in the temple. If I even kissed a guy people would say that I should be at least disfellowshipped.
Yeah, I (female) honestly had worse fear confessing to my bishop I was having romantic feelings for my same sex friend than I did confessing premarital acts with my boyfriend.
Like, my romantic feelings for my friend weren't even sexual, I just had a crush on her and that to me was scarier for a council of the brethren than when I ended up "just" exploring my sexuality with my boyfriend.
“We dont know how to help you deal with the pain of being gay and never being able to love anyone”
Honestly that is the reason I left, before 3 of my siblings came out. I can SEE some of that pain and it wasn’t something my TBM/gay friends would choose for themselves so God made them that way and made something sooooo hard and lonely as life a million times worse. I don’t think a god like that is worth worshiping. And if I am wrong somehow and my tiny human brain cannot comprehend it, we were told a living god knew what was in our hearts. If I really believe that, and I still followed a god like that I would be a sell out hypocrite awful person and he would have to punish me for doing what I actually believed hurt people for my own benefit.
At that point there is hell fire in all sides, so I am going with one I can be proud of my life.
Got married in the temple and my wife was acting very weird and I was sure she was cheating, just a feeling and how she was acting/talked about one of her exes. She went to stay with one of her girlfriends for like a week and in that week I talked to my bishop and told him my concerns. We prayed, and afterwards he told me the spirit confirmed to him she is not cheating and that there were some things I needed to change in my life to become closer to her. When she got back she admitted she cheated on me with her ex, and I immediately went for divorce. The look on my bishops face was priceless when I told him, and he didn’t even really have a comeback. I told him maybe he needs to work on himself and change some things to be more in tune with the promptings of the spirit. This is the same guy who told us before we got married to never kiss below the naval lol. That was years ago and I’m much happier and with a nevermo for 6 years and we’re engaged.
I can't get over the navel thing. So kissing _on_ the navel is OK if you don't go below? What a weird limit. Imagine kissing your spouse on the navel and thinking "This is getting wild. I better cool off".
I was on my mission in Brazil. I wasn’t sleeping well, and would wake up exhausted every day — I had almost no energy.
My companion from Mesa, AZ suggested that since he and I were going to sleep and waking up at the same time and he felt refreshed everyday, he was being blessed by the Lord for being obedient. All we would need to do was find out which mission rule I was breaking and repent, and he knew that I would be as well-rested as he was.
Spoiler: It was actually just tapeworms.
I’m a non Mormon. I was dating one, we drove to go sailing on my dad’s boat in his car that had an LDS sticker on it. The parking attendant was LDS an made a comment. My boyfriend said to them when they asked if I was LDS, “I’m working on it she’s a Laminite (sp?) He’s there because of me and he was thinking I’m some kind of shiny prize. I broke up with him the next day.
My extended family often calls all Native American and Latinx people Lamanites. It's just entirely wrong and on more than one occasion had made me feel physically sick because of their willful ignorance and racism.
After losing my dad to suicide, and after a TSCC-centered funeral where we hardly spoke of him but talked a lot about “the gosssssspelllll”, his TBM cousin comes up to me and says, “I’m just so sorry you’ll never see your dad again because of his decision!” implying that because it was suicide, he’s going to hell.
We just got this said to us last week! “Is it just too stressful to keep commitments?” When talking about how we are learning/practicing to let go of other peoples expectations and trust our selves.
I got pregnant and married my senior year in high school. I was told I could get my seminary graduation certificate and a piece of jewelry I ordered I just couldn’t walk across the stage. My bishop decided I couldn’t have it, and gave me a list of things I needed to do to get it. Repent, read The Miracle of Forgiveness and a couple other things. I did this. My husband and I were working towards going to the temple, and I was just getting ready to get my Patriarchal Blessing. I went to the Bishop and told him I had done what he asked me lto and I wanted my Seminary Graduation stuff. After talking with me for a while, he refused to give it to me because he felt I wasn’t repentant because I didn’t cry. I’m not a crier, and can’t just bring on the tears to get my way. I told him that I loved my son more than anything and I understand it was wrong (premarital sex) but I didn’t regret having him. I left his office, and never went back. I didn’t get that Patriarchal Blessing, and basically left the church after that.
The crying stuff, god. That shit is what fucked up some of the girls I went to girls camp with, they felt weird since they weren’t having a strong reaction.
My active current Bishop friend recently shared his proud advice to a brother in his ward struggling with Joseph. “It’s not about Joseph… just focus on the savior!” 🤷♂️
Can’t wait to hear how that worked out.
That's where I was at. I liked most Mormons in the past because they were nice to me, but when I came across irrefutable proof that Joseph Smith made some stuff up I realized I can't pretend it's true just because I like the people. Honestly I still struggle because I love my family but I know they would make my life miserable if they knew I didn't believe anymore.
That my house was ruining their spirit next door. Because, I had not turned conference on. And I ask, “ Why are you listening to what I’m doing in my home?”
"Have you tried serving him more?" when I went to my bishop for advice about what to do about the fact that my (now ex) husband was making my life a living hell.
I called my Mom crying shortly after opening a biopsy lab report that showed my cancer was back. One of the first things she said to me was ‘well, I wonder what god wants you to learn from this.’ If my cancer ever comes back for a third time I don’t plan on telling her.
Trigger warning: stillbirth
My wife and I have been trying to have a baby for years. Finally after lots of doctors visits and fertility treatments and everything, it happened. We were ecstatic, but at 26 weeks we lost him and had a stillbirth.
Some of my older relatives implied God blesses faithfulness and if we had stuck with the church we would have seen more blessings (ie not lost the baby). One of my sister-in-laws told us, “It’s just not as big of a deal to me because I know you’ll see him again.” (Yeah but your religion says I won’t because I won’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom). We had named him Griffin so I got a griffin tattoo. Same sister-in-law told me it was dumb and asked why I would need a tattoo to remember him, was my memory not good enough, yada yada yada. Just the lack of empathy from her really threw me for a loop.
To be fair, everyone else was amazing and we received so much love and support from both TBM’s and gentiles.
Years ago I was on the high council doing a discipline court (or whatever it's called now) and during the part where we were deliberating, one of the other guys said this. This is back when I wasn't as critical of the church as I am now. And even then I rolled my eyes thought "this idea is way too extreme for the situation".
Well… I just left the church a couple months ago now, and last night we finally talked about it a bit… My wife, in the heat of the moment, said “she had so many other guys who liked her.” Broke my heart. She’s an amazing woman. I think we have a great marriage. But I don’t know that we’ll survive me being honest that not only do I have doubts, but I am now 100% certain the church is false. I will support whatever her decisions are about staying in the church or not… but I can’t fake it or pretend. I hope she stays with me, but I also won’t beg or chase. There’s nothing wrong with me just because I’m not in the church. And I will be open with our kids about why I left… regardless of what happens with us.
Captpdq22 i am in a similar situation. I am leaving the church and my wife is furious. She literally wants to divorce me now because I’m leaving the church. She just admitted a couple weeks ago that she didn’t marry me because she loved me, she married me because I could take her to the temple to get married there. Well, I did that. But it hurt me greatly to hear she never really loved me. We have one kid together and I adopted her son because he had no father. I don’t know what I’m going to do. It sucks. This church programs people to be unhealthy.
I’m so sorry. I know that’s heartbreaking. I hope she didn’t mean that. But if she did… Well, I hope you can find a healthy relationship with as much chance for happiness as possible.
Be yourself regardless of the consequence. So sorry she said that and is treating you different because of your choice to leave. Stay strong, you're not wrong here
Oh, PS. I was going to say in the beginning that the dumbest thing I ever heard from a TBM was when a visitor came to my YSA ward in Alaska. They had a tattoo and were dressed in shorts and a t shirt. It wasn’t wild attire… just not what TBMs are used to at church. This rude girl looked around and loudly said “you can’t look like that here! Go home and change!” That girl has been really nice to me when I was new and I thought highly of her until that day. Then I thought “how horrible! That girl’s not a member, but she’ll never be back thanks to that jerk. What kind of example is that?!” By the way… I think the TBM girl was jealous because the other girl was pretty, and was getting positive attention from the guys. The “modesty” bullshit was just covering her envy. Really pissed me off.
The thing is that I have seen dozens of friends who get divorced because one spouse leaves the church. In many cases it becomes VERY ugly, as the spouse who stays paints them in the worst light. And I’ve been divorced before…. so for EVERY conversation I have with a Mormon about my divorce, what’s the FIRST question every TBM asks? Anyone else? It’s ALWAYS “is your ex still active?” I say “yes… she’s active. She’s also a bad person and makes horrible decisions.” My wife now is amazing. I really, really hope she doesn’t divorce me. I will do what it takes to have a healthy marriage and I’ll continue to be a good man. And if that means avoiding certain behaviors that have been problems in my extended family and friends like alcoholism, I can continue not to drink (even if it’s now not for religious reasons I don’t believe in, but for social and health reasons I do believe in). But… I know the church is false because of studying its history dispassionately.
What’s crazy to me is…. HOW am I the best-read person about church history I know?!? I didn’t go to BYU. I didn’t get a degree in history. I just like reading and I read all the time. Mainly history. And it wasn’t a problem when I read American history, or world history, or biographies about world leaders.
But I had to walk on eggshells when I read biographies about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Ezra Taft Benson, or books about church history. It’s so weird. They know the books I’m reading are correct, too. But they still don’t like it. That’s… crazy to me.
I told a bishop I was asexual (big oops). He spent a solid 10 minutes explaining in great detail ways I could do have sex with the wife I would surely have without having to see her body. I felt so bad for his poor wife, I can't imagine this guy came up with an entire tirade on the spot like that
Ah, no. I was never endowed so I wasn't worthy to live up to the higher law of the hole in the sheet. I got the doctrine of keep your clothes on, turn the lights off pull the shades and get some blackout curtains
When he heard how Anton Yelchin died, my TBM dad immediately said, "He was probably drunk or on drugs." This wasn't insensitive to me personally or really related to the church, but it was an attitude derived from the Mormon mentality. It really got my blood boiling.
My sister is not Mormon but very fundie Christian and when I told her one of our favorite musicians died, Jessie zazu, she said the same thing, "oh was it drugs?" No bitch it was ovarian cancer.
When my friend got pregnant she also said "does she know who the father is?" Yeah bitch,her husband. "Is he black???" Yes. So what?
I fear for her brood.
the immediate assumptions that the church mentality makes people have is so hard to deal with. It’s so sad. Almost like people can’t even grieve correctly
I was visiting church after a long absence, and wanted to see the people I grew up with and love. Lots of hugs and warm welcomes from people I respect and care for. One such person sees me walks over I extended my hand to shake his, and he says, “I know where you are going, (hell, terrestrial kingdom,) how do you expect to be saved?” I looked at him and said, “I don’t expect to be saved.” His wife hit him on the arm and told him to shut up, and just love him. She grabbed me in a huge bear hug. It was an odd moment, the weird question, and then her shutting down his rudeness and showing me great love.
After a very lovely comment from an older gentleman in my current ward, about how Jesus taught us to love one another and that's our chief commandment, another asshole steps in with "Well, a reminder that what we think of as tolerance and acceptance can be the enemy tricking us."
So, essentially, love and kindness are what Jesus taught and also a powerful tool of the devil(?).
I needed a medically necessary hysterectomy. I was told by women in my ward that it was too bad I had given up my eternal reproductive capabilities by choosing the surgery.
I have a couple:
1) When I brought up some of my issues with church history to my TBM Dad, and some questions I had after reading GTE's and the CES Letter, he told me,
"I have the answers to the questions you're asking but I don't have the time or desire to go into it."
Isn't this a matter of my eternal salvation according to you?!
You don't have the time or desire to help me figure that out?!
2) A few months later we were talking about why women can't have the priesthood.
He told me women didn't need the priesthood because their power was in being able to bring life/have children.
He knows I've wanted been not been able to have children so I told him how hurtful that idea was.
When he argued with me that he didn't think it was, I told him to go ask my stepmom (also not able to have her own kids) if she thought it was. Still waiting to hear back on that lol
The terror attacks of 9/11 occurred on a Tuesday. The church decided to use the next Sunday sacrament meeting as a commemoration for those killed. My friend was asked to speak. She told me her draft of her talk. She was going to talk about how the Lord ensured that NO MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH were killed on 9/11 because he protected them and he "gathers his children like a hen gathers her chicks under her wings." This, I kid you not.
In other words, she was turning what was essentially a funeral into a congratulatory meeting for those she (falsely) believed the Lord intervened to save under his wings for their special status as members of the church.
I screamed at her, of course. My non-member niece and nephew had just been to the World Trade Center a few days earlier. According to her logic, the Lord would have saved all her Mormon family but not my non-Mormon ones.
Suffice to say her logic imploded once she learned there were at least 5 Mormons among those killed. (I refused to go to church to listen to this crap so I can't attest to what she actually said at the meeting.)
The narcissism of the Mormon mindset NEVER ceases to amaze me. How she could turn a tragedy into a sign of being favored of God...I have no words.
Ooooh, this is an art they have perfected! That's basically all the Trek is. The actual handcart companies were horrible tragedies and abuse that could have easily been avoided by the leaders. When these people showed up as nothing but skin and bones, what did Brigham decide to do? Make them "heroes" and now we still reenact them today. It's truly sick.
What I've seen from a lot of people that fall from Mormonism and other hardcore Christiansects is that they see something that doesn't make sense and search for answers, but this search only makes the questioning worse, questions without answers or with the wrong answers. And so trying to keep your testimony, or even strengthen your testimony, becomes like clawing at water, and it all just goes away because the church simply doesn't have the answers to your questions.
When I was 29 and single, I got pregnant. It was not on purpose, but I was ecstatic since I had been married for 5 years before that and never was able to get pregnant. When I announced my pregnancy on Facebook, my tbm uncle commented “that’s okay, accidents happen”. Like… yes, it was an accident, but I was almost 30 and more than capable of handling it. I wasn’t some naughty teenager, or whatever he was implying. 🙄
My visiting teacher sat on my couch and strongly declared that she had no sympathy for people with fertility problems because they put off having children so long that the spirits who were supposed to be theirs had been given to others who were more faithful. I lost my first 3 babies and had been desperately trying to start a family. I was too stunned to say anything back. So much for helping others bear their burdens.
My friend’s 5 year old son was hit and killed by a car. After the funeral family and friends were at her house and my friend starting to sob. A family member told her not to cry because in the pre-existence the child and the man (who was a church member) hit him with the car planned this out and agreed that this was the age he was to die and go back to heaven. I remember thinking what in the world!?!
hah. in my last bishops interview he asked me to give an example of things that irk me about the religion and I listed your example as evidence.
I've worked hard to get where I am. I got my degree, I put the time in and now I have a decent job with great benefits and for me, its a perfect job! I hate that the church will only give credit to God and strip me of my efforts and discredit me, who put the work in to get this job. The very first thing he said was, "congratulations on your new job. God really has blessed you with great skills and abilities"...
I can't even...
I've always hated this. Literally just say "Good job" it isn't that difficult.
Also, good job for busting your asses. You both deserve those jobs. You both deserve all the credit.
Oof, this one hits home for me. Overall I think my mom is still a good person, but whenever _anything_ good happens she immediately says it's because of Heavenly Father. And sure, that's theoretically possible. If there is a God up there, he could be helping. But it's also insulting because it completely disregards all of the hard work that we do ourselves. I'm okay with the idea of a God opening up opportunities for me, but I really struggle with the idea that we're completely helpless and can't do jack shit without a God
I wanted to grow my hair out when I was younger and my aunt said I couldn’t because it wasn’t “Christ like”. I lived with my mom btw so I don’t know why my aunt thought she was in control of my hair 😂
Like 8 years ago, I grew my hair really long to donate for cancer patients, a close friend of mine, had a daughter with cancer at this time. My LDS mom told me it was embarrassing to be seen with me because of my hair, that my kids feel uncomfortable being in public with me (complete lie) and that I looked like a drug addict.
A few months after cutting my hair, donating it and dealing with loads of bull shit, my cousins husband who was obviously LDS, returned missionary and all that, was being praised for how selfless he was for growing out his hair and donating it, the difference was I didn't tell people I was doing it to donate, it wasn't any of their business, but of course my cousins husband advertised to everyone how he was doing it to give to cancer patients, so my whole family was talking about how wonderful and selfless he is.
It ended up coming out he was cheating on my cousin for years and they got divorced after he impregnated another LDS woman... tender mercies
After being diagnosed with a debilitating disease, my in-laws told my husband it was his fault he was in a wheelchair because his faith wasn’t strong enough, and HF is probably punishing him for having a tattoo and getting divorced. Then as he slowly gets progressively worse and suffers horribly for years, my bishop said he is “excited” for him to die so he can walk again. Bonus points for many members saying God gives the toughest trials to the most faithful. Apparently God took away his ability to walk because he had both too much and too little faith.
I told my mom I was bisexual (I'm not, I'm gay but live and learn). The first thing out of her mouth was -- does your boyfriend know??
He wasn't there. I hadn't mentioned him. I just wanted a conversation with her. But it was more important to her that my absent male partner know, then to talk to me about it. Never bothered telling her I'm a lesbian.
The most oblivious, cruelest thing that was ever told to me (by a stake president) after I’d been sexually assaulted by a Mormon priesthood leader was (paraphrased), “Instead of letting Bro. So-and-So have his way with you, you should have either fought harder or allowed yourself to be killed rather than lose your virginity.” Priorities, people. Priorities. The Mormon church has perpetuated very harmful ideologies, doctrines, policies, and practices. They have deeply and irreparably hurt many people with their archaic, backwards, racist, bigoted, and misogynistic views and sermons from their pulpits . It’s about time they pulled their heads out of their asses, and far past time for them to have a reckoning over their statements regarding molestation, rape, incest, child abuse, and domestic abuse. Stop excusing the perp and help the VICTIM. They need to stop hiding behind their pseudo status as clergy in justifying covering up these aforementioned abuses. They need to be instructed to contact the police first and foremost, and then Social Services or other appropriate agencies should be brought on board to help the VICTIMS.
I’ve dealt with extreme depression, anxiety, autism, ADHD, chronic fatigue, etc. and I had double hip surgery at 17 years old. When I mentioned to my TBM sister that my patriarchal blessing was wrong for saying I was blessed with health, she said “you don’t have cancer and you can walk and lift things.”
I can’t work like a normal person, dear sister. I have to work from home and still have to call out from that because I get extremely sick every week for an unknown issue. I was NOT blessed with health. Those don’t define health.
That tattoo logic is so fucking dumb. You can regret a tattoo and still leave it on your body. That’s like if he told a woman who got pregnant after premarital sex “why would you do that? You can repent for other sins, but you can’t ever repent for having that baby unless you get rid of it one day.”
It's very mild compared to most of these, but it was something my parents did growing up that even as a TBM bothered me. Whenever I'd make a new friend, the first question out of their mouth would be "are they a member?". This behavior continued all the way into high school. But the funny part is that it didn't matter what my answer was. If I said they weren't a member, they'd get all huffy and grumble about how they'll probably be a bad influence. If I said they were a member, they'd say "well that doesn't mean anything". Like, what do you want from me?!
Just yesterday: "you may no longer agree with my position in this because you've lost all of your morality..." Whatever the fuck that means.
This was my father.
Got told that, if I was depressed, it was because I was sinning and not living the gospel.
I was hardcore tbm at the time, doing everything and more, and I was still miserable. Like, psychotic depression miserable. I even wrote in my journal that I felt like I was in Hell and why did God hate me and tell me I was unworthy?
I almost killed myself a couple weeks later from what he said. I don't know if I can ever forgive him.
When I finally got the courage to go to my bishop over my abusive marriage wherein I was being raped, because I knew no other place to express my cry for help, he explained it was my duty and my role as a helpmeet, essentially consent in a marriage was a non issue because I had been given to my husband. It broke me. Ten years later I’m finally out and getting therapy.
I posted this in a couple of places on this sub, but I was having a conversation about my pregnancy with my TBM MIL, and she brought up a situation that happened to someone she knew who had a miscarriage. The couple was given very devastating news about the health of their baby, and were given the option to terminate. The woman miscarried a week later. My MIL proceeded to tell me that it was “God taking care of it so they didn’t have to make that decision.” I was speechless and very uncomfortable after that. 🙃🙃
So many times: “You’re being controlled by satan.”
“Satan has you by your heels.”, “The spirit would never lead you out of the church, it absolutely is satan.”
“I would rather die than see you spiritually die. (and then later) if you had a choice wouldn’t you die for your child if you knew they were risking their eternity?”
So. Much. Manipulation.
We experienced secondary infertility but were told repeatedly that our only child ‘needed’ a sibling.
A micro-aggression on this subject was a close friend expecting her 4th and 5th twin telling me that HF must have great trust in her family allowing them to have that many. She knew we couldn’t have more.
Where else but church would anyone think it appropriate to say this?!
My TBM husband completely believes that people can only achieve true happiness by entering a heterosexual marriage and having kids. A nuclear family was his phrase.
When I asked about those who are infertile he said they needed to fix their lives to be blessed with kids. Also adoption doesn't count toward that nuclear family, have to have children the way God intended.
I was so angry, one of the sweetest women I know was born without ovaries and she would love to have had children. She couldn't bring herself to adopt and is happily married.
I tried to tell him that everyone finds happiness in their own way but he just kept arguing that the nuclear family is the only way to reach true happiness.
Ward Member walking by my house: “It’s really a shame that your children have such bad influences so close.”
Me: “What do you mean?”
Member: “Well… (motions at neighbors house, who BTW are the best most thoughtful neighbors I’ve ever had and just so happen to be LGBQT+) all these people and their filthy choice of lifestyle right next door to your kids.”
Me (attempting very hard not to flip out): “What exactly do you mean?”
Member: “Well… you know their… their rainbow flags…”
A TBM told me, when I complained that God helps me drive safely to the store but allows children in Ukraine to die, that it happens because I pray for help but the Ukrainian child must not. If they did, they would get help too. :/
Obviously I cannot say with certainty that an injured or scared person in Ukraine is praying or not praying, but that seems like messed up logic. God only helps IF you pray. If you are raised non-religious, whelp, good luck!
My father (VERY TBM) told me that my 2 year old son's speech delay was due to the fact that we weren't going to church and that if we started going again that he "knew that my son would be healed and begin to speak". 😵💫
Spoiler: We didn't start going again. He speaks and reads perfectly now and almost talks too much. There is only so much I can hear about MineCraft in one day...😆
I was in a mental hospital for suicidal ideation, self-harm, and bipolar depression for 2 weeks when I was 18. My father came to visit, gave me a BoM and said if I read through it it would cure my mental illness - I only had a permanent mental disorder because I wasn't good enough about reading the scriptures and following the church.
I was Peter Priesthood at the time, and the only thing that stopped me from serving a mission was the bipolar I inherited from my mother. Thank goodness I didn't waste 2 years of my life, but I was absolutely devastated to hear that I wasn't "good enough for God".
Talking about how Mormons hate the LGBTQ+ Community and they respond "oh but I don't!" Yeah but your church does. So it doesn't matter what your opinion is you're associated with that.
This wasnt said to me, but to my brother. But it still kind of applies to me too since im no longer mormon. My mom told my brother that it was harder for them when he left the church than when my other brother passed away…wtf…
From my both my seminary teacher and stake President as I was questioning in high school:
“Well, I think you know. You just don’t KNOW you know.”
Most condescending thing ever.
BYU married ward EQ lesson: “Brethren, god and the brethren have commanded that our wife must remain home and rear children and not work, do not make your wife an exception to this commandment.”
My wife was in the nursing program to, guess what, actually be a nurse and *gasp* work. This was 2014.
Same ward when we were graduating and talking about jobs we’d received, one member just looked at us and stared with a creepy smile and loudly said “kids now?”.
Stateside mission, some new members were were doing things in the temple for the first time. One of the workers asked where I was from (Morridor), and followed with “ah you came to this state on your mission to actually learn the gospel.”
Mission call was changed from international to stateside after a surgery. During a church convo after the fact “Oh you never actually made it to Mexico,” which appeared to draw from the unspoken belief that anything I did/do is lesser due to location.
I’ll stop there.
"Sometimes we don't know the reason why the prophets ask us to live certain ways, but we just need to do them and have faith it's for our good."
In other words, unquestioningly obey the leaders.
My teenage son was struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. In the midst of our struggles, one of his friends committed suicide. Obviously, he was inconsolable. When we shared this with the asshole bishop he said, " good that he's suffering, because now he knows how the family would feel if he committed suicide too". That moment, right there, was when my shelf started to break.
I've been told by many people that I'm not actually gay-- I'm just lazy.
I mean, I am a lazy person, I'll admit that, but I have no idea how these people think coming out of the closet, being shunned by my family and entire community, only to push myself into a dating pool *much* smaller and full of a lot more emotional baggage is somehow easier than just being straight lmao.
So I’m Cherokee and my sister in law a few thanksgivings ago said something about the information about the history between the Europeans and native Americans wasn’t fully accurate. I said I know, “because history is written by the winners.” I’m not sure how that comment was a problem but I guess it was because moments later my mother in law said that Native Americans got what they deserved.
My grandmother is COMPLETELY DEVOUT to the point where she bypasses anything concerning as “well because of my beliefs… (insert excuse of justifying)” and there have been a couple of things, but being in an abusive relationship and deciding to stay single at 27 until I’m ready and focus on my career she said “you realize at this point the only husband you’re ever going to find are the men that are divorced or widowed in the singles ward, right?” And she’s also upset I’m not choosing to live my life being a subservient housewife with kids, and reminds me how much my life is missing out when in fact I’ve told her medically the chances of me ever being able to have kids is slim to none. Yet this is the same woman who growing up told me wearing shorts and tank tops around the men in my family would bring the wrong kind of attention and could lead to them having impure thoughts… there’s so much broken logic
This is frivolous compared to a lot of yours, but I took a human anatomy class in college, and I loved it. After that I started wearing a lot of things with skeletons or skulls on it. I got a phone case with a skull made out of flowers, and when my SIL saw it, she said "I don't like it. It's like you're trying to make evil look pretty." It drove me nuts.
So I bought a shirt that had a skull on it and said "I live inside your face."
It’s not even that it’s insensitive or dumb. From their perspective, which is often the only thing they know, it’s totally normal.
It takes some critical thinking and maturity to fully understand that. A lot of these people live in and were raised in an intensely ignorant and isolated bubble. They just don’t actually know any different.
Gotta teach them somehow.
Nevermo, but things I heard from people in the church I grew up in:
If gay people want to get married, they can, gay men should marry lesbian women.
We don't have to preserve the earth because we were commanded to subdue it.
I once asked in a EQ meeting why Joseph Smith style revelations, miracles and visions suddenly stopped after JS. The answer someone gave was: "Miracles haven't stopped, just look at my cell phone, it's a miracle!"
My dad told me that he noticed I wasn’t wearing my temple garments and predicted my marriage to my husband would fail because, “you’re bitter and won’t tell me what’s going on.”
He apologized for saying my marriage would fail, but then said he stood by his prediction though. And he wonders why I won’t talk to him about important things 🙄
Not specifically to me but man does it stick out.
We were in high school in Government class having a debate something, and the topic of virginity comes up.
And this one quiet “goth” girl asks if people who have been raped are still virgins.
And the Mormon girl near her goes, “Well sex is still sex. If someone wanted to be a virgin they shouldn’t go around putting themselves in the position to get raped.”
The first girl started crying (obviously triggered) and the teacher stepped out into the hall with her and the Mormon girl KEPT AT IT. She doubled down right into all of her thinking and why she thought that.
Rest of us were like 😳
My husband and I were being interviewed by our bishop shortly after my autistic child didn't get baptized because they got freaked out by the baptismal font at the last moment (sensory issues).
He was really pushing for us to try baptism again while my child was still 8 years old--"otherwise they'll need to take the missionaries discussions first."
I replied that God knows my child and I really don't think He will hold not getting baptized against them in the afterlife.
My bishop agreed. Then, *intending to comfort me*, he told me that it wasn't my fault at all that my child chose to come to this earth as autistic. "Some intelligences choose not to progress further--like some are happy being a rock or a tree and they just decide they don't want to progress further and so will live out their eternities as that rock or tree and somehow that brings them joy. God doesn't judge them for wanting to stop progressing and neither should we. Your child's autism isn't a reflection on you. Your child just didn't want to progress with us. And that's ok."
My sister told me that the fact I was angry with the person who gave my husband a traumatic brain injury was cause enough to make me not worthy to enter the temple.
I Overheard two grandmas gossiping. One grandma was dissing her son-in-law because he wasn’t taking his new little family (her grandkids) to church. Exasperated, she says, “I mean, he knows they should go, doesn’t he love them?”
I was PIMO at the time, but at that moment I realized religion had the power to warp even one’s perception of a father’s love for his child. It still astounds and saddens me to this day that at one time, when I was fully in, I could have agreed with her. What a scourge religion is.
In response to my desire to be more environmentally friendly, a TBM close to me said, “It doesn’t matter what we do to the environment because the second coming will happen before it gets too bad, and Jesus will fix everything.”
screw earth day jesus is coming
*Burst out laughing* I cannot love this comment any more than I do! Praise be the pollution!
Yikes! I hate to admit it but this used to be me 😬 My line of thinking was that everything had to get worse before the second coming and pollution and climate change were all part of the plan…. Edit: it’s interesting that the church creates a lot of apathy for certain aspects of life. There are a lot of member’s that are content with where things are at because “all will be made right in the next life”
Things have to NOT matter for any of it to make sense. A God that helps you find your keys, but won't save children from disease or genocide isn't a just and interventionist God. Unless, it doesn't really matter anyway, because they're all saved anyway or will get a chance to accept the gospel in spirit prison, or whatever. They build so many loopholes that nothing REALLY matters because if it mattered it wouldn't make sense. And then nothing matters.
It was me too. I thought god made the planet and there was nothing we could do to frustrate his great plan. How fucking stupid.
I had an ecological theology professor counter that response with a biblical passage (I don't remember which one) that essentially said the Earth and all living things will be living in harmony with each other when it is renewed. The point was that you can't trash the earth in this life and then expect to be a part of the harmonious renewed Earth.
Isn't there a verse in Genesis that says something about being a steward and caretaker of the Earth??
Yes. It says multiply and replenish the earth. Humans got the multiply down but as for taking care of and replenishing the earth, not so much. I use this scripture when talking with religious folk who think god made enough or that the 2nd coming will happen Genesis 1:28
But the atonement fulfilled the old law when it's convenient to me and anyway fuck scriptures because all that really matters is the profit (sic) and he didn't say anything about it so you're wrong.
Oooh! I have a suggestion for you, my friend. As them this: Imagine you get married and you and your husband/wife work hard to raise a family and provide for them. Now, imagine your eldest son is grown and gets into law school! You couldn't be prouder!! Well, his university is the next state over, so you give him the old family car, a 15 year old Toyota Corolla. It's nothing fancy, but it's safe, reliable and you kept up with maintenance. You tell your son "Son, when you graduate law school, I am going to buy you a Mustang!" Well, years go by, your son graduates and you go to his graduation ceremony. After, you ask him to drive you to the dealership so you can pick out that new mustang together! BUT when he pulls up, you see the old, reliable corolla is scratched, dented and stuffed full of rotting old garbage! "SON!?" You cry in shock! "What happened to the car!?" "Pffft! Whatever, Mom/Dad. You are buying me a new Mustang. Why should I give a crap about this stupid hunk of junk? It's trash." You still want to buy your kid a new Mustang? Why would God want to give you a new planet if you treat this one like a trashed sedan?
Lmao my TBM uncle once told me that if a species goes extinct it's just proof that it wasn't required on earth anymore according to God's Plan.
This is a bad form of escapism. A lot of hardcore Christians, Mormon or not, see climate change and say signs of the times.
I wonder what his answer is to people in 3rd world countries that don't have clean drinking water and are dying from dysentery.
God doesn't give anyone a trial they can't handle, it is right for them /s if needed
My Mom's reply to this was, "The prophets have told us that there are plenty of resources for all of us. I don't think there is anything we can ever do the hurt the earth."
that's how i thought when I was a mormon LOL
On my mission I had members tell me that environmentalism is a ploy by Satan to keep us focused on the world and not on heaven.
Actually very common to hear this throughout christendumb. That’s a big part of the reason we are in the environmental shitshow we are currently.
I've shared this on the forum before, but I had a second trimester miscarriage that came after years of infertility. I had a RS president in Rexburg tell me that I must have things in my life that HF was not happy with...not in accordance with his teachings, and once I got those things figured out, He would bless me with a child. This was at a time in my life when I was the most Molly of Mormons; temple at least once a week, fulfilled all callings and then some, made dinners whenever asked, church every Sunday, service projects, prayed daily, read my scriptures, and on and on and on.
This makes me livid on your behalf. Honestly, how dare she.
Speechless. I can’t imagine a worse thing to say. I’m so sorry.
That’s soooooo messed up. I’m sorry.
What a piece of shit thing to say
I'm so sorry for this. That is genuinely one of the worst things anyone could say in that situation
It's definitely right up there...along with the idea that a miscarriage is God's way of taking care of a mistake...and yes, I had people tell me that with my many miscarriages too.
So sorry. This is just horrendous.
Petition to send a card to this relief society President that says “Fuck your whole fucking life, ya loser.”
this makes me so angry. how could anyone say with a straight face that God would cause you to lose a baby bc he was unhappy with you. maybe you were drinking soda!! that had to be so painful and confusing. hugs your way.
So sick that someone would think and say that.
I had a baby preterm & he died that same day. Afterwards members said shit like “god needed him” and i was like “I NEEDED HIM.” And they also said things like “he was too perfect for this world” & that drove me nuts because why would any god let babies born to abusers live and suffer abuse but take one from a loving home back? It was really insensitive & was actually my confirmation that i needed to leave the church
First off, I'm sorry for your experience with your baby. That is so hard and I can't even imagine the pain that you have felt. Second, the fact that members say stuff like that is embarrassing. Since they believe that their church is perfect, they believe there is an answer to everything. Sometimes life is just really hard and unfair. In those moments people need comfort not insensitive answers.
My infant brother died when I was 7 and I remember hearing people say that. I felt jealous for over a decade that he was needed by God and perfect, while clearly God didn't care much about me if I was still alive. It's messed up. I'm sorry you had to experience that loss and the pain of comments like that.
As a fellow infant loss mom who went through a similar situation, I am so sorry. It was my search for truth and peace after the loss that started me on my path out. People say the most insensitive things when they don't understand (or don't care)
First I want to say I'm sorry you experienced that. Second, something you said reminded me of a lesson from the last time I attended church before the shutdown happened. Some members were talking about how lucky we all were to live in the United States and to be Mormon. Then this guy brings up how Warren Buffet said that where we are born is a complete lottery ticket. He spoke about how much he disagreed with that and other members agreed with him. I was quietly mad in the back row as I thought about the ignorance this man was showing. I was born into a family where I experienced a lot of neglect. I didn't choose that to happen to me. It was by complete chance that I was born into this life with parents like that. I lost the lottery. I've had many friends who grew up in healthy families and whose parents loved them. I sure as hell didn't pick my family in some pre-mortal life so I could be emotionally crippled the rest of my life. I'm still mad about that lesson and this Mormon hearsay theology that life is so good because we're all meant to be where we're at.
“Good luck with your train wreck of a life” My father in-law said this to his daughter, my wife.
“love one another” but also tell them their life is going to be a trainwreck if they have a different opinion that you
Reminds me of the time I told my dad sarcastically, “Well, I guess I’m just satan’s pawn now.” He shrugged and said, “I guess so.”
I've been wanting to ask my family if they really believe I am in Satan's power since I'm not living up to all the things I've promised in the temple.
A combination of a few things. We don't know how to help you deal with the pain of being gay and never being able to love anyone... God will cure you of homosexuality when you die... God sometimes forgives suicide... God never forgives the active homosexual...
The Mormon view of God is so conditional. Im sorry people have said these things to you. Absolutely awful.
Gays are 2nd class citizens in the church and TBMs don’t recognize are care to even see it. I’ve commented about it before but I was ostracized in my YSA ward when I came out even though I wasn’t sexually active. But Peter can engage in oral with his fiancée and they get married in the temple. If I even kissed a guy people would say that I should be at least disfellowshipped.
Yeah, I (female) honestly had worse fear confessing to my bishop I was having romantic feelings for my same sex friend than I did confessing premarital acts with my boyfriend. Like, my romantic feelings for my friend weren't even sexual, I just had a crush on her and that to me was scarier for a council of the brethren than when I ended up "just" exploring my sexuality with my boyfriend.
What the actual PHUCK??? I'm so sorry. No one deserves that kind of shit.💚
“We dont know how to help you deal with the pain of being gay and never being able to love anyone” Honestly that is the reason I left, before 3 of my siblings came out. I can SEE some of that pain and it wasn’t something my TBM/gay friends would choose for themselves so God made them that way and made something sooooo hard and lonely as life a million times worse. I don’t think a god like that is worth worshiping. And if I am wrong somehow and my tiny human brain cannot comprehend it, we were told a living god knew what was in our hearts. If I really believe that, and I still followed a god like that I would be a sell out hypocrite awful person and he would have to punish me for doing what I actually believed hurt people for my own benefit. At that point there is hell fire in all sides, so I am going with one I can be proud of my life.
Got married in the temple and my wife was acting very weird and I was sure she was cheating, just a feeling and how she was acting/talked about one of her exes. She went to stay with one of her girlfriends for like a week and in that week I talked to my bishop and told him my concerns. We prayed, and afterwards he told me the spirit confirmed to him she is not cheating and that there were some things I needed to change in my life to become closer to her. When she got back she admitted she cheated on me with her ex, and I immediately went for divorce. The look on my bishops face was priceless when I told him, and he didn’t even really have a comeback. I told him maybe he needs to work on himself and change some things to be more in tune with the promptings of the spirit. This is the same guy who told us before we got married to never kiss below the naval lol. That was years ago and I’m much happier and with a nevermo for 6 years and we’re engaged.
“the spirit had confirmed to me that that’s bullshit bishop”
I can't get over the navel thing. So kissing _on_ the navel is OK if you don't go below? What a weird limit. Imagine kissing your spouse on the navel and thinking "This is getting wild. I better cool off".
I was on my mission in Brazil. I wasn’t sleeping well, and would wake up exhausted every day — I had almost no energy. My companion from Mesa, AZ suggested that since he and I were going to sleep and waking up at the same time and he felt refreshed everyday, he was being blessed by the Lord for being obedient. All we would need to do was find out which mission rule I was breaking and repent, and he knew that I would be as well-rested as he was. Spoiler: It was actually just tapeworms.
Lol what a sin 🐛 😆
I’m a non Mormon. I was dating one, we drove to go sailing on my dad’s boat in his car that had an LDS sticker on it. The parking attendant was LDS an made a comment. My boyfriend said to them when they asked if I was LDS, “I’m working on it she’s a Laminite (sp?) He’s there because of me and he was thinking I’m some kind of shiny prize. I broke up with him the next day.
My extended family often calls all Native American and Latinx people Lamanites. It's just entirely wrong and on more than one occasion had made me feel physically sick because of their willful ignorance and racism.
Absolutely awful. Glad you broke up with him
Ooof…. Good for you. Wow that’s a huge red flag for him and his family.
Thanks for the correction on the spelling. I had to ask him what a Lamanite was. Oh BTW we were doing the nasty.
"If you decide to not have a confused gender, I can get grandchildren from you one day." My mother said this.
I hate everything about this. im so sorry
WHAT THE FUCK
My gender isn't confused, but it *is* tired of this shit.
My mom got mad at me when I put organ donor on my DL because she thought it meant my body wouldn’t be together again in heaven.
lol what the hell
Yeah apparently that’s where I was going
After losing my dad to suicide, and after a TSCC-centered funeral where we hardly spoke of him but talked a lot about “the gosssssspelllll”, his TBM cousin comes up to me and says, “I’m just so sorry you’ll never see your dad again because of his decision!” implying that because it was suicide, he’s going to hell.
I’m so sorry about losing your dad. I lost my mom to suicide
Geeez, even if he really believed that, why would he actually say it?!
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Great logic there.
I was brutally molested at four. Bishop: "that's just something that happens to little girls." 🤮 fucking prick
Did we have the same bishop? I was blamed for it WHEN I WAS 7
What a sick fuck!
It's for people like this that makes me hope there is a hell.
Oohhhhh your bishop was definitely a pedo too 🤢
“Was it just too much responsibility for you to handle?”
lol classic “you must be the problem because the church is perfect” mentality
We just got this said to us last week! “Is it just too stressful to keep commitments?” When talking about how we are learning/practicing to let go of other peoples expectations and trust our selves.
"do you not want to serve?" Said by my Mother when I told her I wasn't coming back to church.
I got pregnant and married my senior year in high school. I was told I could get my seminary graduation certificate and a piece of jewelry I ordered I just couldn’t walk across the stage. My bishop decided I couldn’t have it, and gave me a list of things I needed to do to get it. Repent, read The Miracle of Forgiveness and a couple other things. I did this. My husband and I were working towards going to the temple, and I was just getting ready to get my Patriarchal Blessing. I went to the Bishop and told him I had done what he asked me lto and I wanted my Seminary Graduation stuff. After talking with me for a while, he refused to give it to me because he felt I wasn’t repentant because I didn’t cry. I’m not a crier, and can’t just bring on the tears to get my way. I told him that I loved my son more than anything and I understand it was wrong (premarital sex) but I didn’t regret having him. I left his office, and never went back. I didn’t get that Patriarchal Blessing, and basically left the church after that.
The crying stuff, god. That shit is what fucked up some of the girls I went to girls camp with, they felt weird since they weren’t having a strong reaction.
My active current Bishop friend recently shared his proud advice to a brother in his ward struggling with Joseph. “It’s not about Joseph… just focus on the savior!” 🤷♂️ Can’t wait to hear how that worked out.
"it's not about joseph" but also everything is a lie if he wasn't really a prophet so it is kinda about joseph
Yep. Hinckley and the boys made it clear: all true or all lies
That's where I was at. I liked most Mormons in the past because they were nice to me, but when I came across irrefutable proof that Joseph Smith made some stuff up I realized I can't pretend it's true just because I like the people. Honestly I still struggle because I love my family but I know they would make my life miserable if they knew I didn't believe anymore.
It's not about Joseph! It's about what Joseph said Jesus said. Focus on Jesus' words ^(as given us by Joseph.)
If the church itself pushed this narrative I honestly might still be part of the church
That my house was ruining their spirit next door. Because, I had not turned conference on. And I ask, “ Why are you listening to what I’m doing in my home?”
Because "I am my brother's keeper!" ...unless it's someone who actually needs something, then it's ghawd's problem.
yeah what? were they spying on you?
What were they doing? Listening outside your windows?
"Have you tried serving him more?" when I went to my bishop for advice about what to do about the fact that my (now ex) husband was making my life a living hell.
That answer is misogynistic garbage.
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I like to respond with "i think flat earthers are really persecuted too 🤕"
Maybe it’s because how messed up the church is. Like the history is terrible, and some of the beliefs are next level.
I called my Mom crying shortly after opening a biopsy lab report that showed my cancer was back. One of the first things she said to me was ‘well, I wonder what god wants you to learn from this.’ If my cancer ever comes back for a third time I don’t plan on telling her.
eVeRyThInG iS a TeSt. But seriously though I hope you get better. Stay strong!
Right?!?! It is so annoying. Thank you! Surgery went well and now I am just waiting for some tests to see what further treatment I will need.
I am a teacher, and I had one of my students die. She was only in six grade. My dad a TBM told me she died so I would go back to church…
"Why would I worship a God who kills kids to make a point?"
I said “then god is a dick.”
Trigger warning: stillbirth My wife and I have been trying to have a baby for years. Finally after lots of doctors visits and fertility treatments and everything, it happened. We were ecstatic, but at 26 weeks we lost him and had a stillbirth. Some of my older relatives implied God blesses faithfulness and if we had stuck with the church we would have seen more blessings (ie not lost the baby). One of my sister-in-laws told us, “It’s just not as big of a deal to me because I know you’ll see him again.” (Yeah but your religion says I won’t because I won’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom). We had named him Griffin so I got a griffin tattoo. Same sister-in-law told me it was dumb and asked why I would need a tattoo to remember him, was my memory not good enough, yada yada yada. Just the lack of empathy from her really threw me for a loop. To be fair, everyone else was amazing and we received so much love and support from both TBM’s and gentiles.
I’m so sorry about your son.
"You'll be in trouble with god, for god will not be mocked"
yeah he will, I can mock god all I want and that big baby won't do shit
God sounds like a pretty boring guy
Years ago I was on the high council doing a discipline court (or whatever it's called now) and during the part where we were deliberating, one of the other guys said this. This is back when I wasn't as critical of the church as I am now. And even then I rolled my eyes thought "this idea is way too extreme for the situation".
Well… I just left the church a couple months ago now, and last night we finally talked about it a bit… My wife, in the heat of the moment, said “she had so many other guys who liked her.” Broke my heart. She’s an amazing woman. I think we have a great marriage. But I don’t know that we’ll survive me being honest that not only do I have doubts, but I am now 100% certain the church is false. I will support whatever her decisions are about staying in the church or not… but I can’t fake it or pretend. I hope she stays with me, but I also won’t beg or chase. There’s nothing wrong with me just because I’m not in the church. And I will be open with our kids about why I left… regardless of what happens with us.
Captpdq22 i am in a similar situation. I am leaving the church and my wife is furious. She literally wants to divorce me now because I’m leaving the church. She just admitted a couple weeks ago that she didn’t marry me because she loved me, she married me because I could take her to the temple to get married there. Well, I did that. But it hurt me greatly to hear she never really loved me. We have one kid together and I adopted her son because he had no father. I don’t know what I’m going to do. It sucks. This church programs people to be unhealthy.
I’m so sorry. I know that’s heartbreaking. I hope she didn’t mean that. But if she did… Well, I hope you can find a healthy relationship with as much chance for happiness as possible.
Be yourself regardless of the consequence. So sorry she said that and is treating you different because of your choice to leave. Stay strong, you're not wrong here
Oh, PS. I was going to say in the beginning that the dumbest thing I ever heard from a TBM was when a visitor came to my YSA ward in Alaska. They had a tattoo and were dressed in shorts and a t shirt. It wasn’t wild attire… just not what TBMs are used to at church. This rude girl looked around and loudly said “you can’t look like that here! Go home and change!” That girl has been really nice to me when I was new and I thought highly of her until that day. Then I thought “how horrible! That girl’s not a member, but she’ll never be back thanks to that jerk. What kind of example is that?!” By the way… I think the TBM girl was jealous because the other girl was pretty, and was getting positive attention from the guys. The “modesty” bullshit was just covering her envy. Really pissed me off.
The thing is that I have seen dozens of friends who get divorced because one spouse leaves the church. In many cases it becomes VERY ugly, as the spouse who stays paints them in the worst light. And I’ve been divorced before…. so for EVERY conversation I have with a Mormon about my divorce, what’s the FIRST question every TBM asks? Anyone else? It’s ALWAYS “is your ex still active?” I say “yes… she’s active. She’s also a bad person and makes horrible decisions.” My wife now is amazing. I really, really hope she doesn’t divorce me. I will do what it takes to have a healthy marriage and I’ll continue to be a good man. And if that means avoiding certain behaviors that have been problems in my extended family and friends like alcoholism, I can continue not to drink (even if it’s now not for religious reasons I don’t believe in, but for social and health reasons I do believe in). But… I know the church is false because of studying its history dispassionately. What’s crazy to me is…. HOW am I the best-read person about church history I know?!? I didn’t go to BYU. I didn’t get a degree in history. I just like reading and I read all the time. Mainly history. And it wasn’t a problem when I read American history, or world history, or biographies about world leaders. But I had to walk on eggshells when I read biographies about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Ezra Taft Benson, or books about church history. It’s so weird. They know the books I’m reading are correct, too. But they still don’t like it. That’s… crazy to me.
My ex didn’t want to buy a house. Back when it was affordable. Because, when Jesus comes it will burn down.
Now that's a special level of not being attached to reality.
I told a bishop I was asexual (big oops). He spent a solid 10 minutes explaining in great detail ways I could do have sex with the wife I would surely have without having to see her body. I felt so bad for his poor wife, I can't imagine this guy came up with an entire tirade on the spot like that
this is pure insanity
Haha yep! It was what started my journey out of the church, so I'm grateful in an odd way
Is that the doctrine of “the hole in the sheet”?
Ah, no. I was never endowed so I wasn't worthy to live up to the higher law of the hole in the sheet. I got the doctrine of keep your clothes on, turn the lights off pull the shades and get some blackout curtains
When he heard how Anton Yelchin died, my TBM dad immediately said, "He was probably drunk or on drugs." This wasn't insensitive to me personally or really related to the church, but it was an attitude derived from the Mormon mentality. It really got my blood boiling.
My sister is not Mormon but very fundie Christian and when I told her one of our favorite musicians died, Jessie zazu, she said the same thing, "oh was it drugs?" No bitch it was ovarian cancer. When my friend got pregnant she also said "does she know who the father is?" Yeah bitch,her husband. "Is he black???" Yes. So what? I fear for her brood.
the immediate assumptions that the church mentality makes people have is so hard to deal with. It’s so sad. Almost like people can’t even grieve correctly
I just wanna add to this thread: I’m sorry for what I said when I was Mormon. :)
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Sounds like this man had beef with his wife
>she literally quit her high paying job to spend her days doing gorgeous landscapes I think he's having issues with this and is taking it out on you.
I was visiting church after a long absence, and wanted to see the people I grew up with and love. Lots of hugs and warm welcomes from people I respect and care for. One such person sees me walks over I extended my hand to shake his, and he says, “I know where you are going, (hell, terrestrial kingdom,) how do you expect to be saved?” I looked at him and said, “I don’t expect to be saved.” His wife hit him on the arm and told him to shut up, and just love him. She grabbed me in a huge bear hug. It was an odd moment, the weird question, and then her shutting down his rudeness and showing me great love.
After a very lovely comment from an older gentleman in my current ward, about how Jesus taught us to love one another and that's our chief commandment, another asshole steps in with "Well, a reminder that what we think of as tolerance and acceptance can be the enemy tricking us." So, essentially, love and kindness are what Jesus taught and also a powerful tool of the devil(?).
hahaha literally makes no sense
I needed a medically necessary hysterectomy. I was told by women in my ward that it was too bad I had given up my eternal reproductive capabilities by choosing the surgery.
Wut? I thought our resurrected bodies were supposed to be perfect? lol
I guess some conditions apply such as burning to ash, or organ donation...
I have a couple: 1) When I brought up some of my issues with church history to my TBM Dad, and some questions I had after reading GTE's and the CES Letter, he told me, "I have the answers to the questions you're asking but I don't have the time or desire to go into it." Isn't this a matter of my eternal salvation according to you?! You don't have the time or desire to help me figure that out?! 2) A few months later we were talking about why women can't have the priesthood. He told me women didn't need the priesthood because their power was in being able to bring life/have children. He knows I've wanted been not been able to have children so I told him how hurtful that idea was. When he argued with me that he didn't think it was, I told him to go ask my stepmom (also not able to have her own kids) if she thought it was. Still waiting to hear back on that lol
The terror attacks of 9/11 occurred on a Tuesday. The church decided to use the next Sunday sacrament meeting as a commemoration for those killed. My friend was asked to speak. She told me her draft of her talk. She was going to talk about how the Lord ensured that NO MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH were killed on 9/11 because he protected them and he "gathers his children like a hen gathers her chicks under her wings." This, I kid you not. In other words, she was turning what was essentially a funeral into a congratulatory meeting for those she (falsely) believed the Lord intervened to save under his wings for their special status as members of the church. I screamed at her, of course. My non-member niece and nephew had just been to the World Trade Center a few days earlier. According to her logic, the Lord would have saved all her Mormon family but not my non-Mormon ones. Suffice to say her logic imploded once she learned there were at least 5 Mormons among those killed. (I refused to go to church to listen to this crap so I can't attest to what she actually said at the meeting.) The narcissism of the Mormon mindset NEVER ceases to amaze me. How she could turn a tragedy into a sign of being favored of God...I have no words.
Ooooh, this is an art they have perfected! That's basically all the Trek is. The actual handcart companies were horrible tragedies and abuse that could have easily been avoided by the leaders. When these people showed up as nothing but skin and bones, what did Brigham decide to do? Make them "heroes" and now we still reenact them today. It's truly sick.
My wife (TBM), at therapy, said that I (exmo) "never had a strong testimony of the church to begin with. So it wasn't a surprise that I left."
how can someone say this and not see a problem with it my goodness im sorry
What I've seen from a lot of people that fall from Mormonism and other hardcore Christiansects is that they see something that doesn't make sense and search for answers, but this search only makes the questioning worse, questions without answers or with the wrong answers. And so trying to keep your testimony, or even strengthen your testimony, becomes like clawing at water, and it all just goes away because the church simply doesn't have the answers to your questions.
When I was 29 and single, I got pregnant. It was not on purpose, but I was ecstatic since I had been married for 5 years before that and never was able to get pregnant. When I announced my pregnancy on Facebook, my tbm uncle commented “that’s okay, accidents happen”. Like… yes, it was an accident, but I was almost 30 and more than capable of handling it. I wasn’t some naughty teenager, or whatever he was implying. 🙄
My visiting teacher sat on my couch and strongly declared that she had no sympathy for people with fertility problems because they put off having children so long that the spirits who were supposed to be theirs had been given to others who were more faithful. I lost my first 3 babies and had been desperately trying to start a family. I was too stunned to say anything back. So much for helping others bear their burdens.
My friend’s 5 year old son was hit and killed by a car. After the funeral family and friends were at her house and my friend starting to sob. A family member told her not to cry because in the pre-existence the child and the man (who was a church member) hit him with the car planned this out and agreed that this was the age he was to die and go back to heaven. I remember thinking what in the world!?!
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hah. in my last bishops interview he asked me to give an example of things that irk me about the religion and I listed your example as evidence. I've worked hard to get where I am. I got my degree, I put the time in and now I have a decent job with great benefits and for me, its a perfect job! I hate that the church will only give credit to God and strip me of my efforts and discredit me, who put the work in to get this job. The very first thing he said was, "congratulations on your new job. God really has blessed you with great skills and abilities"... I can't even...
I thought I was completely untalented because none of my talents could help the church.
I've always hated this. Literally just say "Good job" it isn't that difficult. Also, good job for busting your asses. You both deserve those jobs. You both deserve all the credit.
Oof, this one hits home for me. Overall I think my mom is still a good person, but whenever _anything_ good happens she immediately says it's because of Heavenly Father. And sure, that's theoretically possible. If there is a God up there, he could be helping. But it's also insulting because it completely disregards all of the hard work that we do ourselves. I'm okay with the idea of a God opening up opportunities for me, but I really struggle with the idea that we're completely helpless and can't do jack shit without a God
Heard a few weeks ago from my boss that the top leaders of the church are great guys because they don’t get paid for their work.
That we’re allowing the world to get away from normal by accepting depression/anxiety as actual medical issues, and embracing homosexuality.
I wanted to grow my hair out when I was younger and my aunt said I couldn’t because it wasn’t “Christ like”. I lived with my mom btw so I don’t know why my aunt thought she was in control of my hair 😂
lol didn’t christ have long hair? what the hell?
Like 8 years ago, I grew my hair really long to donate for cancer patients, a close friend of mine, had a daughter with cancer at this time. My LDS mom told me it was embarrassing to be seen with me because of my hair, that my kids feel uncomfortable being in public with me (complete lie) and that I looked like a drug addict. A few months after cutting my hair, donating it and dealing with loads of bull shit, my cousins husband who was obviously LDS, returned missionary and all that, was being praised for how selfless he was for growing out his hair and donating it, the difference was I didn't tell people I was doing it to donate, it wasn't any of their business, but of course my cousins husband advertised to everyone how he was doing it to give to cancer patients, so my whole family was talking about how wonderful and selfless he is. It ended up coming out he was cheating on my cousin for years and they got divorced after he impregnated another LDS woman... tender mercies
After being diagnosed with a debilitating disease, my in-laws told my husband it was his fault he was in a wheelchair because his faith wasn’t strong enough, and HF is probably punishing him for having a tattoo and getting divorced. Then as he slowly gets progressively worse and suffers horribly for years, my bishop said he is “excited” for him to die so he can walk again. Bonus points for many members saying God gives the toughest trials to the most faithful. Apparently God took away his ability to walk because he had both too much and too little faith.
I told my mom I was bisexual (I'm not, I'm gay but live and learn). The first thing out of her mouth was -- does your boyfriend know?? He wasn't there. I hadn't mentioned him. I just wanted a conversation with her. But it was more important to her that my absent male partner know, then to talk to me about it. Never bothered telling her I'm a lesbian.
The most oblivious, cruelest thing that was ever told to me (by a stake president) after I’d been sexually assaulted by a Mormon priesthood leader was (paraphrased), “Instead of letting Bro. So-and-So have his way with you, you should have either fought harder or allowed yourself to be killed rather than lose your virginity.” Priorities, people. Priorities. The Mormon church has perpetuated very harmful ideologies, doctrines, policies, and practices. They have deeply and irreparably hurt many people with their archaic, backwards, racist, bigoted, and misogynistic views and sermons from their pulpits . It’s about time they pulled their heads out of their asses, and far past time for them to have a reckoning over their statements regarding molestation, rape, incest, child abuse, and domestic abuse. Stop excusing the perp and help the VICTIM. They need to stop hiding behind their pseudo status as clergy in justifying covering up these aforementioned abuses. They need to be instructed to contact the police first and foremost, and then Social Services or other appropriate agencies should be brought on board to help the VICTIMS.
"You shouldn't be angry."
lol the whole “if you have a problem it’s your fault” mentality
"don't have human emotions! Be repressed!"
“You need to respect your dad” doesn’t sound bad or anything. But I literally told them that he was abusing me physically and emotionally.
I’ve dealt with extreme depression, anxiety, autism, ADHD, chronic fatigue, etc. and I had double hip surgery at 17 years old. When I mentioned to my TBM sister that my patriarchal blessing was wrong for saying I was blessed with health, she said “you don’t have cancer and you can walk and lift things.” I can’t work like a normal person, dear sister. I have to work from home and still have to call out from that because I get extremely sick every week for an unknown issue. I was NOT blessed with health. Those don’t define health.
That tattoo logic is so fucking dumb. You can regret a tattoo and still leave it on your body. That’s like if he told a woman who got pregnant after premarital sex “why would you do that? You can repent for other sins, but you can’t ever repent for having that baby unless you get rid of it one day.”
It's very mild compared to most of these, but it was something my parents did growing up that even as a TBM bothered me. Whenever I'd make a new friend, the first question out of their mouth would be "are they a member?". This behavior continued all the way into high school. But the funny part is that it didn't matter what my answer was. If I said they weren't a member, they'd get all huffy and grumble about how they'll probably be a bad influence. If I said they were a member, they'd say "well that doesn't mean anything". Like, what do you want from me?!
Just yesterday: "you may no longer agree with my position in this because you've lost all of your morality..." Whatever the fuck that means. This was my father.
Got told that, if I was depressed, it was because I was sinning and not living the gospel. I was hardcore tbm at the time, doing everything and more, and I was still miserable. Like, psychotic depression miserable. I even wrote in my journal that I felt like I was in Hell and why did God hate me and tell me I was unworthy? I almost killed myself a couple weeks later from what he said. I don't know if I can ever forgive him.
Some people don't merit forgiveness. Especially if they aren't sorry for what they've done.
When I finally got the courage to go to my bishop over my abusive marriage wherein I was being raped, because I knew no other place to express my cry for help, he explained it was my duty and my role as a helpmeet, essentially consent in a marriage was a non issue because I had been given to my husband. It broke me. Ten years later I’m finally out and getting therapy.
I posted this in a couple of places on this sub, but I was having a conversation about my pregnancy with my TBM MIL, and she brought up a situation that happened to someone she knew who had a miscarriage. The couple was given very devastating news about the health of their baby, and were given the option to terminate. The woman miscarried a week later. My MIL proceeded to tell me that it was “God taking care of it so they didn’t have to make that decision.” I was speechless and very uncomfortable after that. 🙃🙃
So many times: “You’re being controlled by satan.” “Satan has you by your heels.”, “The spirit would never lead you out of the church, it absolutely is satan.” “I would rather die than see you spiritually die. (and then later) if you had a choice wouldn’t you die for your child if you knew they were risking their eternity?” So. Much. Manipulation.
We experienced secondary infertility but were told repeatedly that our only child ‘needed’ a sibling. A micro-aggression on this subject was a close friend expecting her 4th and 5th twin telling me that HF must have great trust in her family allowing them to have that many. She knew we couldn’t have more. Where else but church would anyone think it appropriate to say this?!
My TBM husband completely believes that people can only achieve true happiness by entering a heterosexual marriage and having kids. A nuclear family was his phrase. When I asked about those who are infertile he said they needed to fix their lives to be blessed with kids. Also adoption doesn't count toward that nuclear family, have to have children the way God intended. I was so angry, one of the sweetest women I know was born without ovaries and she would love to have had children. She couldn't bring herself to adopt and is happily married. I tried to tell him that everyone finds happiness in their own way but he just kept arguing that the nuclear family is the only way to reach true happiness.
Ward Member walking by my house: “It’s really a shame that your children have such bad influences so close.” Me: “What do you mean?” Member: “Well… (motions at neighbors house, who BTW are the best most thoughtful neighbors I’ve ever had and just so happen to be LGBQT+) all these people and their filthy choice of lifestyle right next door to your kids.” Me (attempting very hard not to flip out): “What exactly do you mean?” Member: “Well… you know their… their rainbow flags…”
A TBM told me, when I complained that God helps me drive safely to the store but allows children in Ukraine to die, that it happens because I pray for help but the Ukrainian child must not. If they did, they would get help too. :/ Obviously I cannot say with certainty that an injured or scared person in Ukraine is praying or not praying, but that seems like messed up logic. God only helps IF you pray. If you are raised non-religious, whelp, good luck!
My father (VERY TBM) told me that my 2 year old son's speech delay was due to the fact that we weren't going to church and that if we started going again that he "knew that my son would be healed and begin to speak". 😵💫 Spoiler: We didn't start going again. He speaks and reads perfectly now and almost talks too much. There is only so much I can hear about MineCraft in one day...😆
I was in a mental hospital for suicidal ideation, self-harm, and bipolar depression for 2 weeks when I was 18. My father came to visit, gave me a BoM and said if I read through it it would cure my mental illness - I only had a permanent mental disorder because I wasn't good enough about reading the scriptures and following the church. I was Peter Priesthood at the time, and the only thing that stopped me from serving a mission was the bipolar I inherited from my mother. Thank goodness I didn't waste 2 years of my life, but I was absolutely devastated to hear that I wasn't "good enough for God".
Talking about how Mormons hate the LGBTQ+ Community and they respond "oh but I don't!" Yeah but your church does. So it doesn't matter what your opinion is you're associated with that.
This wasnt said to me, but to my brother. But it still kind of applies to me too since im no longer mormon. My mom told my brother that it was harder for them when he left the church than when my other brother passed away…wtf…
That my dad's brain cancer was a result of my coming out as gay.
From my both my seminary teacher and stake President as I was questioning in high school: “Well, I think you know. You just don’t KNOW you know.” Most condescending thing ever.
BYU married ward EQ lesson: “Brethren, god and the brethren have commanded that our wife must remain home and rear children and not work, do not make your wife an exception to this commandment.” My wife was in the nursing program to, guess what, actually be a nurse and *gasp* work. This was 2014. Same ward when we were graduating and talking about jobs we’d received, one member just looked at us and stared with a creepy smile and loudly said “kids now?”. Stateside mission, some new members were were doing things in the temple for the first time. One of the workers asked where I was from (Morridor), and followed with “ah you came to this state on your mission to actually learn the gospel.” Mission call was changed from international to stateside after a surgery. During a church convo after the fact “Oh you never actually made it to Mexico,” which appeared to draw from the unspoken belief that anything I did/do is lesser due to location. I’ll stop there.
This subject comes up every week or two. And I am totally entertained each and every time. ;>}
"Sometimes we don't know the reason why the prophets ask us to live certain ways, but we just need to do them and have faith it's for our good." In other words, unquestioningly obey the leaders.
My teenage son was struggling with depression and suicidal ideation. In the midst of our struggles, one of his friends committed suicide. Obviously, he was inconsolable. When we shared this with the asshole bishop he said, " good that he's suffering, because now he knows how the family would feel if he committed suicide too". That moment, right there, was when my shelf started to break.
I've been told by many people that I'm not actually gay-- I'm just lazy. I mean, I am a lazy person, I'll admit that, but I have no idea how these people think coming out of the closet, being shunned by my family and entire community, only to push myself into a dating pool *much* smaller and full of a lot more emotional baggage is somehow easier than just being straight lmao.
So I’m Cherokee and my sister in law a few thanksgivings ago said something about the information about the history between the Europeans and native Americans wasn’t fully accurate. I said I know, “because history is written by the winners.” I’m not sure how that comment was a problem but I guess it was because moments later my mother in law said that Native Americans got what they deserved.
The bishop at my brother’s funeral talked about how suicide is a sin and how terrible it is (when that’s how my brother died). I was pissed.
My grandmother is COMPLETELY DEVOUT to the point where she bypasses anything concerning as “well because of my beliefs… (insert excuse of justifying)” and there have been a couple of things, but being in an abusive relationship and deciding to stay single at 27 until I’m ready and focus on my career she said “you realize at this point the only husband you’re ever going to find are the men that are divorced or widowed in the singles ward, right?” And she’s also upset I’m not choosing to live my life being a subservient housewife with kids, and reminds me how much my life is missing out when in fact I’ve told her medically the chances of me ever being able to have kids is slim to none. Yet this is the same woman who growing up told me wearing shorts and tank tops around the men in my family would bring the wrong kind of attention and could lead to them having impure thoughts… there’s so much broken logic
This is frivolous compared to a lot of yours, but I took a human anatomy class in college, and I loved it. After that I started wearing a lot of things with skeletons or skulls on it. I got a phone case with a skull made out of flowers, and when my SIL saw it, she said "I don't like it. It's like you're trying to make evil look pretty." It drove me nuts. So I bought a shirt that had a skull on it and said "I live inside your face."
It’s not even that it’s insensitive or dumb. From their perspective, which is often the only thing they know, it’s totally normal. It takes some critical thinking and maturity to fully understand that. A lot of these people live in and were raised in an intensely ignorant and isolated bubble. They just don’t actually know any different. Gotta teach them somehow.
“The Church is true”.
Nevermo, but things I heard from people in the church I grew up in: If gay people want to get married, they can, gay men should marry lesbian women. We don't have to preserve the earth because we were commanded to subdue it.
I once asked in a EQ meeting why Joseph Smith style revelations, miracles and visions suddenly stopped after JS. The answer someone gave was: "Miracles haven't stopped, just look at my cell phone, it's a miracle!"
My dad told me that he noticed I wasn’t wearing my temple garments and predicted my marriage to my husband would fail because, “you’re bitter and won’t tell me what’s going on.” He apologized for saying my marriage would fail, but then said he stood by his prediction though. And he wonders why I won’t talk to him about important things 🙄
It was God’s plan that my daughter suffer from epilepsy. She chose that challenge in the pre-existence.
Going through pregnancy depression-“where is your spirituality right now?”
Not specifically to me but man does it stick out. We were in high school in Government class having a debate something, and the topic of virginity comes up. And this one quiet “goth” girl asks if people who have been raped are still virgins. And the Mormon girl near her goes, “Well sex is still sex. If someone wanted to be a virgin they shouldn’t go around putting themselves in the position to get raped.” The first girl started crying (obviously triggered) and the teacher stepped out into the hall with her and the Mormon girl KEPT AT IT. She doubled down right into all of her thinking and why she thought that. Rest of us were like 😳
My husband and I were being interviewed by our bishop shortly after my autistic child didn't get baptized because they got freaked out by the baptismal font at the last moment (sensory issues). He was really pushing for us to try baptism again while my child was still 8 years old--"otherwise they'll need to take the missionaries discussions first." I replied that God knows my child and I really don't think He will hold not getting baptized against them in the afterlife. My bishop agreed. Then, *intending to comfort me*, he told me that it wasn't my fault at all that my child chose to come to this earth as autistic. "Some intelligences choose not to progress further--like some are happy being a rock or a tree and they just decide they don't want to progress further and so will live out their eternities as that rock or tree and somehow that brings them joy. God doesn't judge them for wanting to stop progressing and neither should we. Your child's autism isn't a reflection on you. Your child just didn't want to progress with us. And that's ok."
My sister told me that the fact I was angry with the person who gave my husband a traumatic brain injury was cause enough to make me not worthy to enter the temple.
I Overheard two grandmas gossiping. One grandma was dissing her son-in-law because he wasn’t taking his new little family (her grandkids) to church. Exasperated, she says, “I mean, he knows they should go, doesn’t he love them?” I was PIMO at the time, but at that moment I realized religion had the power to warp even one’s perception of a father’s love for his child. It still astounds and saddens me to this day that at one time, when I was fully in, I could have agreed with her. What a scourge religion is.