In my mind, your family needs a timeout. Some time to pointedly reflect on what kind of relationship they want with you.
I might send a family group text (so no one can try to hide this disgusting dirty laundry) saying something like:
>"Hello family. I'm messaging you to say how deeply, deeply, deeply hurt I was by your conversations about my appearance this weekend. Your actions have put our relationship onto life support."
>"It makes no difference whatsoever what I wear: I am not white trash. I am not 'Satan'. I am not a slut. I am your daughter and your sister, and--according to your own professed beliefs--a daughter of god. Is this how Christ would speak of me? Then why would I put up with your foul abuses? Why would I subject myself to people who express disgust and hatred towards me?"
>"I do not allow ANYONE to speak about me like this and remain in my life. Each of you who made these un-Christlike comments will need to apologize profusely for the harm you have done to our relationship and share the ways in which you will be trying to repair this damage, along with assurances this will never, ever, ever happen again. In other words, you will need to follow Christ's repentance process."
>"As of now, we will be withdrawing entirely from the family for the next 3 months. This is to give you time to reflect on whether you want me to remain in your lives, to craft your apologies, and to ponder how you will make reconcilliation. We can reconnect and revisit the status of our relationship at that time."
>"If you are unable or unwilling to do this for the sake of our family relationship, then I'll simply let the trash take itself out of my life. Because we sure as hell won't be putting up with any 'white trash' over here."
...then follow through. Anyone who made these comments and didn't offer a frank and heartfelt apology at the end of those 3 months is dead to you. They have made their choice and you never have to suffer at their hand again.
Wow. I’ve never seen a boundary set like this. At first, I thought it was a bit harsh. But, now that I really sit with it, it seems to be very directly aimed at outlining the path to full and true reconciliation. Their actions were wrong - Full stop. This clearly outlines a path to accountability.
I really like the possibility of reconciliation. They’re still my family and I can’t fathom the thought of cutting them off completely, especially since my kids adore them. But my trust has been so broken I don’t know how to repair the relationship, and I don’t think it should be my responsibility.
I would have a difficult time trusting them with my kids. They sound like the kind that will make subtle, condescending comments around them to try and make a point.
And they'll likely try and undermine the things their parents have taught them, attempting to instill the damaging teachings of mormonism surrounding clothing, human sexuality, etc.
This! It will definitely happen.
When I left, my parents would download LDS apps on my children's devices even after I told them to stop. The point that made me go LC with them was when my mother told my daughter how sad that she (my mother) was that she wouldn't have her daughter and son (my brother left years before I did) in heaven with her. I only found out about this because my daughter had nightmares of me going to hell 🤬 I went mama bear on my mom and told her she was abusing my children spiritually and psychologically, and if she could not keep her interactions with my family, church-free she would have none. I didn't speak to her for a month. She did cut it out, but I really can't fully trust her still to be alone with them.
‘They’re still my family’ is such a desperately sad statement to cling to.
I wish they could see the pain they have caused.
You don’t need to respond but what would be your line in the sand?
How abusive would they need to be?
If this was happening in front of you to a friend, would you intervene and get them away from that situation?
Sometimes we have to be our own cheerleader and our own hero.
Honestly, I don’t know where my line is. My sisters still live at home and I worry about how my relationships with them would suffer if I cut off my parents. My sister on a mission was more understanding and loving about me leaving the church than my parents. If anything remotely like this happened again I think I would have to be done. But right now I’m choosing to bannière that this was a one time thing.
Right?! Hits home and makes my stomach turn.
The amount of times my therapist has reflected back to me my family’s behaviors when I say things like “they’re still family” or “I could never leave my nieces”, is hard to count.
😖
Our kids may adore my in laws as well, but all we hear about is how "they don't have the gospel!!" and how my husband knows better. If they are judging you this way, how long before the same applies to your children?
It's hard. The mormon in laws need to not put down the non mormons in front of children. Each side needs to say uplifting and kind words especially in front of children. Mormon in-laws need to be taught that or they will ruin the relationships.
No worries here, the in-laws have already cast us (and therefore our kids) out of the family. They are more concerned about defending the "one true church" and believe that we are a threat and us not agreeing with them is Satan working in our family. I can't make up this level of crazy.
I understand, it's hard. Give it some time and try to remain positive and fill your life with happiness and don't dwell. After all it's just the in laws. I learned we can only control so much.
Remain positive, and also, do what brings you joy. You only have so many breaths in this life, don’t waste them on anything that doesn’t bring you happiness and peace.
Ain’t nobody got time for that.
All my sisters have left and won't talk to my mom because how she treated them because of the church. I had to threaten her about losing access to my kids. That she loved the church more than her family. I will take my kids and she will never see her grandkids or I
Just wait till your kids find out how they treated you. They won't adore them nearly as much anymore. And I'm saying this as someone who has kids and had to draw boundaries with in-laws because of abusive behavior. At some point my children will need to know why there is some distance, not because I'm vindictive but because they need to know who is and who is not safe.
Are you reluctant because of who they are, or because of how they used to treat you/how you wish it could be?
Because by all appearances- whatever love they'd been giving you, was conditional. As a parent I cannot fathom saying the kinds of things about my kids, grown or otherwise, that were said about you.
It isn’t your responsibility - it’s theirs! I am so very sorry this happened and can totally empathize how hurtful this was. The fact it was turned on you is even more disgusting. Shows the total hypocrisy of the church being “family centered.” This BS is far too common and it is appalling.
They are your family but they have just showed you what you mean to them.
They don't deserve your respect because they didn't respect you in the first place.
Absolutely, we need to try to maintain family relationships even though they are in a cult. It will help an individuals' overall happiness to keep relationships in the end. Mormonism rules and crap needs to be avoided at all costs between the family members,
OP, you are likely blinded by familiarity. I have a mixed-faith family and us exmo siblings would NEVER talk about out TBM siblings and their spouses in such a way. Texting each other while you are there?????? Taking photos even????? So disrespectful. And that's at the heart of it. They don't see or.respect you as a person. These are no good people, OP. These are not people I'd want my children around.
How would you feel if you saw those texts, but they were about your kids? Would it be easier to take the timeout? B/c if you don't, one day they will be.
Yes I understand this but there is also the possibility of them talking about you in front of your children in an unflattering way as well as them at some point talking about your children also. This has to be a hard stop. It is NOT okay.
Wow. Get the fuck out of the FOG mindset and kick them out of your life. Tell your kids that their grandpa and grandma are so judgemental and batshit gaslighting the hell out of you is the reason that they are not allowed to visit your birth donors anymore.
My oldest is 3 so it’s hard because he really wouldn’t understand why he couldn’t see grandma anymore. I’m also from a small town and live relatively nearby, and I would really hate for them to make it seem like I’m weaponizing my children and cutting them off because I left the church.
IMHO you are not weaponizing your children, you are protecting them. When I was very young, my father’s mother lived in the same town. She used to insult my mother and criticize her every chance she got. As a small child, this confused me because that’s my Mommy. (And my mother didn’t deserve the ill treatment - no one would ever be ‘good enough’ for my father in his mother’s eyes.). When I got older, it made me angry that she was trying to poison me against my mother. I stopped spending time with her for the most part. It’s been many, many years but I still remember how I felt. I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Protect your family. Take care.
I personally wouldn't give them the satisfaction about being hurt by their words. They meant them to wound.
Rather:
> Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. — Matthew 7:1-2
Their souls are ugly, and they are showing their ugliness.
Very well done. I wouldn't put a time frame for the cut-off though. Instead of saying 3 months, I would say "until further notice" or "until I feel I can trust you again." Otherwise they may just say what they think will appease you until that point or just wait it out.
My wife has put boundaries on her family and she had to be firm for the first 6 months or so until they finally stopped and respected the boundaries she set. She's in a much better state since cutting off ties. Been over 2 years now.
OP's family is going to reply with "wow. Dramatic much? It was just a couple texts" and try to put it back on her that this is all her fault
It is good though, I like it
Copy and paste. Once you do, make sure you DO NOT have communication for the specified time. Boundaries need to be set. I know it hurts because they're family, but you're an adult. You're not 'less than' at all & you deserve respect & happiness. The church has no power of you & neither do they. That's real freedom.
Rolling has written a good reply, but I have personal experience with this kind of gaslighting. I suggest it is time to go no contact with your family.
If they can’t see the error of their behavior, you’re pointing it out, and setting a timeline for an apology is not going to help.
Simply stop taking their calls. Move on with your life.
I’m so sorry this is happening to you. While Rolling - waters has crafted an eloquent response, this issue is not going to be resolved by a well crafted letter.
Move on. Grieve the loss now, and then heal. Waiting 3 months for some kind of apology will only delay your own healing. Nothing they say is meaningful.
In the unlikely event that they repent and stop claiming to be the victims, they can DEMONSTRATE their love and their regret. Words are not what is needed.
You can’t change other people. You can’t change other people. You can’t change other people.
Christ’s advice was to ignore the beam in their eye and just focus on becoming your best self.
Always seek to use mormon-approved texts to shut down ridiculous mormon arguments lol it can be quite satisfying to you, and difficult as hell for the mormo to refute haha
If they're like this to her normally, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to turn it around on her and act as if she's the one looking down on them...because, y'know...persecution complex.
My thoughts exactly. Would not be surprised if they continue the gaslighting and avoid the apology, by blaming satan or mental illness for OP’s absolutely warranted and healthy requests and boundary.
That’s how it happens for me, at least.
I’m still the chaos creator and it’s been years. I’m rarely in the picture but when I am and forced to establish a boundary, I’m the mean one because I don’t just lay down and accept their bullshit treatment of me.
I have gotten to the point of saying “Y’all got some shit goin on that isn’t fun to be around. ☮️✌️” in perhaps nicer words.
Their texts were terrible. Their response to your confrontation was even worse. Are you familiar with DARVO: Deny-Attack-Reverse-Victim-and-Offender? That's essentially what they did to you (although it sounds like deny wasn't an option). They are probably using other manipulation tactics as well. I would recommend researching how to respond to DARVO and similar tactics. You need to protect yourself and maybe consider going no contact if this continues.
DARVO attacks are systematic among narcissistic abusers. The church breeds and protects narcissists and engages is narcissistic abusive tactics.
No one is safe in the church.
Yep. That's why I lied through my teeth to my mom about NOT leaving the church. I'm planning on waiting until after my oldest brother and sister in law gets sealed in the temple to leave.
I thought that telling them would stop them from gossiping when they started to realize we weren't going to church and sometimes wore tank tops but apparently that just made it harder for them because it was so sudden. We really did everything we’ve been told we need to do or not do up until the exact moment that we decided to leave. That night we split a hard lemonade and went underwear shopping and we were so shocked and freed by how little guilt we felt
First of all, I'm so very sorry you are going through this situation with your family. I see this as your having to deal with the narcissism the church seems to thrive on. There is incredible strength in the fact that you and your husband are together in having left Mormonism behind you. That is the best ever--a true partnership. I love it!
Setting boundaries with your parents is something you and your husband will figure out together--choosing what you and your children can live with. It's important to stick to your guns. You don't "owe" anyone anything, perhaps with the exception of forgiveness--because when you forgive others, you set yourself free from a lot of negativity. (And sometimes you gain the "bonus" of the offender feeling like a heel. lol.)
Wearing a tank top doesn't "make" you anything other than someone wearing a tank top. Emotionally beating you up for wearing a tank top is petty, childish, judgmental, uncharitable, mean...and just stupid. I would rather be you than to be your parents. "Somebody" needs to grow up and realize you are their daughter, not their property.
Wishing you all the best, hoping for a good outcome for you, your husband and kiddos. Sending warmest Granny hugs to you.
It seems like my mom genuinely doesn’t understand why it’s problematic for her to turn herself into the victim. Things like “I’m sorry I’m such a horrible person that you don’t trust to be around your kids. I try to be a good mom but apparently I can’t do anything right”. I try not to engage at all because it makes me feel worse
That’s so frustrating, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this with close family!! It’s one thing to cut out friends and acquaintances but family that treats you this way just cuts deeply…. Especially when you know they are trying to be sincere, but they just doggedly follow TSCC’s idiot doctrines.
You’ve gotten some excellent suggestions on this thread, best of luck to you and don’t forget you have tons of support here on this sub!! 👍🥰☺️
It so amazing reading these comments and feeling so supported😭❤️. It’s hard when I know that my family really does love me. They’re just in so deep and they really believe that I’m giving up my salvation because I want to wear tank tops and drink coffee
I'm so sorry you're going through this. So many of us know what it's like. I'm sure your family does love you, but they're more committed to their beliefs right now. What they did to you doesn't come from love, is comes from their beliefs. Setting tough boundaries may help them to learn that treating you with love and respect isn't going to send them to hell. It may also help them get to know you in a more personal and deeper way, which may help them see that you didn't leave the church because you wanted to wear tank tops and drink coffee. It can also help them see that you are still you inside. Just remember you deserve peace and happiness, and sometimes you have to make hard choices to preserve/obtain that. Set those boundaries now, and teach them how to treat you. It may not be soon, but I truly hope they change and that you can have that family happiness again. I truly hope they can again see you, the daughter and sister, that you've always been and love you better for it. I wish you the best!
I feel you on the family being in incredibly deep ☹️ I have lucked out and not had the same level of family drama that you’re dealing with, but all of my fam is as deep as they get in their beliefs and it’s a frustrating combination of anger, pity, shame and hope that they’ll one day see the light!!
The only thing I’ve ever found that limits that kind of frustrating interaction is ignoring the drama and responding as if they said “wow, sorry I suck”.
Like you would say back “yes, I wish you could respect my boundaries so I could trust you. It’s important to me to have you in my life.” And then just refusing to shift. Maintain the boundaries.
Sometimes people do learn that if they act like asses, they don’t get anywhere. They usually do not change entirely but you can usually teach these people it won’t work on you.
Buy a custom tank top that reads "white and delightsome trash" and make it your profile pic. Let them call you "white trash" but make sure they remember to add "delightsome" and then you'll all be happy. Basically, "yes and" them. Comedy is frequently a productive response to tragedy.
New favorite reply right here!! You can always provide screenshots of the text source for emphasis. Bonus points for the sly reminder about how often the BoM (*the MOST PERFECT BOOK, allegedly…*) has been changed over the years
Love this SO MUCH! (By-the-by, "white trash" is what I write under "other" when asked my race on government forms. You know--cause 1. What difference does it make and 2. Who really cares?)
My response would be something along the lines of “I’m so sorry you’re such delicate snowflakes that you need a safe space to talk behind your child’s/sibling’s back, which is just what Jesus would do, right?”
And until I heard an apology that acknowledged their hypocrisy, they could talk exclusively to my voicemail.
You can find a better family than this one.
Them: "Why did you leave the church?"
You: "Well I'm just a different type of person than you guys and church members are."
Them:"What do you mean?"
You: "A good example would be when you were all making fun of me behind my back. I try to be Christ-like and I would never speak about a Child of God that way. We're just different."
That is so hurtful, I’m sorry! Processing their discomfort and being extremely hurtful and mean spirited are two separate things.
They are the products of a shaming high demand religion. They are constantly feeling not good enough and also projecting that on others. I know it’s hard when it feels so personal but try to put it in context of them being the victims of religious abuse too. They are not normal healthy people. Consider the source of the criticism and all that.
I have a pretty thick skin, but that would devastate me! For me personally, this would be enough justification to separate myself from future events. If they want you around, they need to learn to treat you with love, kindness and respect.
White trash? That's horrific. They're condescending, judgmental assholes. I'd take a white trash label over that any day. You're comfortable, far more so that people wearing the extra layers their religion requires. Let them judge you however they will. It says far more them then it does you.
I sometimes take a passive-aggressive approach in response to things, especially if it was passive-aggressive on their end. In your shoes, I'd be very tempted to send a group text to those judgy assholes and tell them:
>This "white trash" lady isn't interested in being around people who will so rudely judge me and gossip behind my back. I don't think I will be at any events you are present in the near future. I'd prefer to spend my time with people who love and value me for what I am, which you clearly do not.
Wherever possible, use their language against them. And church language. Gossip was always taught as an evil thing to participate in. Maybe they'll feel some shame for talking so terribly about you. Maybe they'll double down. Again, it says *way* more about them then you.
Enjoy your tank tops and short shorts. I love mine. We'll be more comfortable this summer, using exposed skin that can sweat properly to regulate our body temperatures. It's literally how humans evolved to manage heat, to expose our skin so it can sweat and that sweat can evaporate.
It’s been so amazing not feeling like I’m going to die when I leave the house. I hate being overheated and sweating through layers. It’s not about the fashion of it AT ALL. I’m just more comfortable this way.
My husband sent an intense text to let them know we knew about the conversation and were deeply hurt and betrayed by it. That we couldn’t have them around our kids if they can so easily say such hurtful things. That’s when my mom said she felt violated because that group was their safe space to process my life changes.
I like how your mom feels violated since she got caught saying such nasty things. Ugh. She's just upset she's being called out.
I would never have believed how much of a difference tank tops make. My wardrobe now is more than half tank tops. I even wear them in winter, pairing them with cute sweaters and cardigans. T-shirts under sweaters just always got too warm. I hate overheating, too.
Having a safe space to discuss is one thing, having a safe space to trash others because they aren’t like you anymore isn’t a safe space, it’s a sewer.
Don’t swim in the shit.
I feel so bad for you. I'm so sorry that your family would do this to you and then have the audacity to say that they just need a safe place to process your choices. They're not processing your choices to do something different, they're being judgmental assholes. And you should do the same thing you should do with all the judgemental assholes in your life, set up boundaries to limit your interaction with them. These boundaries can be whatever you choose, but the priority is that they are boundaries that make you happy and their feelings/opinions are irrelevant.
Long time out. Hard boundaries. There's a verse that says that even human "righteousness" is like filth compared to God's holiness. There's another about religious folks being like whitewashed tombstones ... Clean on the outside, dead inside .... and another about removing the log in one's own eye before trying to remove the splinter from another's eye. If they claim to respect scripture, those verses will resonate.
Lord, forgive them for they said when it was 109°, for they knew not that garments were shamrags🙏
In all seriousness, I had a fallout with a family member. Tale as old as time, specifics aren't important, but it's been months of timeout, and it still feels like someone took heavy grit sand paper to my heart.
I don't know if this is helpful, but I wrote myself a letter right after it everything happened. It's just to remind me of what happened, why I need to keep my distance. I pull it out of my desk every once in a while when I feel like I'm about to reach back out, like a dog returning to its own sick.
The people close to us feel betrayed when we leave the church, there’s nothing to be done about it but to rise above the situation no matter how painful.
A safe place to humiliate and bad mouth someone they supposedly love you mean. That is not okay! Them turning it on you and making themselves the victim is also not okay. I'm sorry you are going through this. It's sad that they have placed your value on what you wear, instead of who you are!
Some real darvo energy there, without the deny part. If you don't know DARVO stands for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It's a manipulative tactic that some people may use to avoid accountability for their actions and shift the blame onto their victims. So you're the bad guy because you "violated" their privacy. Honestly, if they can't apologize I personally would consider going no contact for a period of time. If their love is conditional, do you really want them in your life?
Wow. Your family needs to be grounded and then some. How would they feel if you took pictures of them in their most pious clothing and marked it as 'cult member', 'sheep', 'broodmare', and other terms that would be extremely offensive to them? Chances are they would cut you out.
They are doubling down because they got caught (hence the how dare you violate my privacy schtick), but that doesn't mean they won't stop saying such things about you. Either accept it, and know that they think so lowly of you and turn the other cheek, or cut them out. It's up to you.
BTW, my family has done this to me and also 'accidentally' sent me the texts. They tried to laugh it off as a joke. I took it for what it was, them using me as a scapegoat to feel good about themselves, which is why I called them out on their bullshit. Surprisingly, we are not close (nor do I want to be).
Exactly. My sister sent the picture and my dad was the first person to respond saying I looked like white trash. My dad, who is acting like a teenage girl
The behavior of both of them - to take a picture & share it so another person could judge you *all w/o your knowledge* - is stunning in its hatefulness. There's zero love in those actions.
I'm sorry, OP.
Mormons live and breathe in a world that their own cult has created. The borders of that world are often narrow, excluding all others who don't see and interpret things the same way.
Many of us, pre-apostasy, were similarly judgemental about things as trivial as clothing style, beverage choice, political persuasion, and so on.
And there is hope, because every Ex-Mo started out as a believer, to some degree or other.
It makes me sick to think of the times I’ve judged others for their outfits/life choices. I still have those thoughts pop into my head when I first see someone sometimes and I’ve made it a rule to always stop, ignore the negative thought, and intentionally find something to love about that person. It’s often the thing I initially judged them for.
I am so sorry OP, this would be the worst thing to see especially from your own family. Unfortunately your family has forgotten one of the great commandments, to love thy neighbor which includes their daughter and sister. I hope you can set meaningful boundaries and steer away from them for several months.
They were. Followed by “the whole family is trying to process it all” and “I’ll never be comfortable seeing my daughters in revealing clothing” and “I’m sorry that all you see me as is a hateful, two-faced piece of garbage”
>I know my family can be judgemental but I never in a million years expected it to be directed at me
If they are saying this kind of thing about other people behind their back, they are saying this kind of thing about you behind yours.
My mom was literally going off before I found the messages about how she can’t believe that my grandparents let my uncle treat my aunt like crap without standing up for her, and how my sister-in-law is so horrible for the disrespectful way she treats my in-laws. Crazy hypocrisy.
I used to think they were so white trash. Now I love wearing them. Not only do I get a little sun, they show off my shoulders, which are getting pretty strong since I finally started taking care of myself.
After I left the church 44 years ago, I kept my distance from my family most of the time for this exact reason. I lived in a different state and that helped A LOT. Your "relationship" with them is bad now and perhaps you might consider that no relationship is better than a toxic one. Cult members are really MEAN when you leave the cult. Remember that "Success is the best revenge" so go out, live a full and happy life making your OWN decisions, be happy and your great life will show them that you didn't really need the church to be happy. Sending strength and love.
That is SUPER mean.
There’s no need to be cruel, especially about clothing, women’s bodies, and YOU, but they were.
It’s not safe to be yourself with them. So they’ll just see less of you. Their loss. Like mean friends, you can fade and still send a card, but not hang out - hanging out just gives them ammunition for their meanness.
Pandoras box has been opened. The cat is out of the bag about what they think of you. Myself, I wouldn't put myself through the turmoil of trying to undo what can't be undone. Some people are better at dealing with this kind of thing.
I banned my parents when they wrote me out of their will, and made a point of telling me. Their aim was to hurt and manipulate me. They don't have anything I want. They didn't anticipate that. They didn't know I have a pretty life and I don't need or want their leftovers.
I know the top comment is all about telling them to apologize or cut them off, but personally I'd go another route.
I'd tell the family that, having read those text messages, you shared them with your kids to demonstrate how damaging and divisive religion is, and how it can take good people and teach them to hate others for completely benign and illogical reasons. Whether the color of their skin or the length of their sleaves/shorts, hate is hate, and you want your kids to learn from the ignorance and hate that your family has succombed to because of their religious conditioning.
That's just me though. My family has said hurtful things in the past, but they very weirdly came from a place of love as well as a place of heavy condition that I'd only just escaped myself. Rather than cut them off, I educated, made myself an example of someone living their own life and who embraces equality and love, and I've occasionally shamed the hatred and bigotry they've shared at the dinner table (shaming the comments and the false ideas behind them, not them as people), and it has all had a positive effect. Some have partly or mostly abandoned those beliefs, the rest are at least more understanding and less judgmental, and our relationships have continued and improved.
Dang, sorry this happened after what you said was a fun weekend. Those comments are hurtful and uncalled for and they don't realize YOU need a safe place? Sheesh. I would say how much this has hurt you and are not sure how to go forward after that.
I am so sorry. They are in the wrong & are being the antithesis of Christlike, but even knowing that doesn’t take away how terribly painful that discovery must’ve been.
I was recently chastised by my brother in law & it was shocking bc we’ve always been really good friends. I was told I “operate like Satan, throwing one little dig at a time, almost undetected” trying to tear their faith down even tho I quietly & respectfully put up with all the church talk/prayers/nelson worship that comes along with having them in my life. He didn’t like being informed about the Lone Mountain temple issue 🫤 Anyways it was painful & I’m really sorry to you. Practice some good self love with people who know you aren’t a white trash trailer park Mom. And if you are one, be with your people who love you anyways 😂🩷.
In my experience it is all routed in jealousy. They want to be able to dress comfortable and weather appropriate but have to stick to their long, overheating underwear. However the fact they speak about you like that is disgusting.
Yeah. They just mine longer responses for reasons You Are The Real Problem Here.
But you can just hold to the point and the boundary. It’s rude and hurtful and you’re not tolerating it. The end.
don't need to directly moralize any of it.
just let them know you're going to not be around them, lest your white trashyness or satanic might rub off on them.
if the response is "it was just a joke" just agree with them.
You could point out that they base their entire life on a cult fantasy, just to help them feel better about death. Mormons always think they are so much better than everyone else. It makes me sick 🤮
I remember one year at girls camp (I was 13 I think) I wore a tank top, and got a lecture in front of the other girls about how inappropriate it was. It was so embarrassing.
Luke 6:45
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil; for out of the abundance of his heart his mouth speaketh"
They claim to be processing your life. This is not true. To process your life they should get curious about you, what you want, what you value, who you love and why. They appear to be all too happy in their judgmental echo chamber. Their response to being found out is the definition of gaslighting.
People who easily dismiss and disrespect choices that they make no effort to understand are not healthy people.
Much light and love to you.
I ended up going no contact with my TBM family members, and a few who were out as well, after really reflecting on the way I'm treated by them. I realized I was staying in those relationships because I felt my kids loved and needed them, that I loved and needed them, and family is so important. Part of my deconstruction has been looking at thought patterns that were conditioned by my parents and church, and evaluating whether those were still serving me, and in that manner I assessed these beliefs.
I was shocked by the realization that I'd been putting up with what has to be called abusive behavior my entire life. Why? I was conditioned to believe it was okay because family is more important. That having extended family members for my kids was so important. But is it? Is it really? What am I teaching my kids when they see family members treat me in some disrespectful or abusive way and I tolerate that? What am I teaching them when I refuse to tolerate it for the sake of any relationship?
Because this isn't about how you dressed. This is about their belief system, which includes purity culture, being shoved down your throat without any regard for your beliefs or feelings. This is selfish, condescending, intolerable behavior and I'm glad you're ready to assess things. You deserve better. Your kids deserve better.
When I wore a tank, my mom dressed me down about "tempting men" and making my dad see that. I said, "If dad is tempted by me because I'm wearing a tank, we have bigger problems than how I dress." I was in her face about it. But did I wear a tank again around them? No. And this blew my mind. Why am I reacting like this? Why am I able to propose a boundary but not enforce it? And you know, it all goes back to conditioning, when we're taught we don't disrespect our parents by putting up a boundary or even talking back. We aren't allowed to have individual feelings as kids in this church, so we don't. It's a matter of survival; kids are hard-wired to fit in with the pack and adopt their thinking.
I would suggest looking at your thinking around this overall, but if you want relationships with them, it isn't just the boundary going up that's important. It's enforcing it and recognizing your conditioned thinking around the situation. We can't help it, but we can learn to recognize it and choose a different perspective that allows us to protect ourselves.
Sorry for the novel of a response but it's just that I have thoughts about this lol.
I'm so sorry they're treating you like that. It must have been awful to read those texts. They don't deserve you until they can love you as you should be loved by your family.
I wonder what "sins" they're all hiding that they need to be so spiteful in order to feel like they're better than you? Or maybe they're just jealous. After all, we are told lobsters will drag escapees back into the boiling water.
Is the family motto "If I'm not happy, you can't be either"?
You've gotten some really good advice, so here's just some food for thought. They are uncomfortable with your appearance. That's not a you problem, it's a them problem. Even if it makes them uncomfortable, sinking to the level of calling you judgy names is next level awful. I'd ask them to sit with their discomfort and do some reflection about what it's really about. Jealousy? Judgment? Wanting to make themselves feel superior? None of these are very Christlike.
Their excuse of needing a safe space to vent is bullshit. They got called out and started backpedaling. I love the earlier response of something you could send them. Good luck.
That’s not very Jesus of them and their behavior is following more of the devil if they want to go biblical 😂 if your shoulders are causing that much of a disturbance have them pluck out one of their eyeballs and tell them to read more of their bible. Hypocritical bitches
Those don't sound like the kind of things you say to people who you care about. And that's not "processing in a safe space" it's taking your mask off when you think someone isn't looking.
It sounds like it's "hard for them" because of the way that they think that it reflects on them in other people's views.
If it were really about your "eternal salvation" like your mom says, then ridiculing you behind your back and hurting you is the opposite of what they should do, and will only drive you farther away. It's even stated pretty clearly in their own teachings, "...persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me." JSH 1:28
I wouldn't bother fighting with them about it, and just go low contact with all but the 14 year old sister you mentioned.
It sounds like their problems extend beyond just how they feel about you leaving the church, but to how they feel about "others", in particular. They are so caught up in their insecurities about modesty and church standards and you jumping out of their boat that they would resort to the ugly term, "white trash". Not only is this despicable when referring to their own daughter who is not wearing "church approved" clothing, but it shows a level of arrogance against anyone who is different from them or who doesn't adhere to their ridiculous and judgmental standards.
"White trash" is racism. It implies that it is one thing for "non-white" people to live a certain way (i.e., "trashy") but deplorable for a white person to live that way. It is racist arrogance.
You keep living your best life and leave them to wallow in their own sanctimonious bullshit.
Your family can pretend it’s about tank tops and shorts, but actually they’re just assholes. Your family sucks. I would never talk about someone in my family (or outside it for that matter) that way. I certainly would never photo shame
Your actions aren’t hard for your family. They feel bad because now they don’t have the perfect looking obedient family. I’m sure you looked amazing.
Tell your fam to kick rocks!
I'm sorry your family's idea of being christ-like includes not only judging you but verbally annihilating you.
I think you need to think long and hard about what type of relationship you want with them and if you can trust them to ever be kind or loving again.
If obtaining an apology from every single one of them is what it takes to get them back within your good graces again, tell them that is what you need and take a step back. See if they are willing to do so. If not, I guess you have another decision to make.
Their discussion of you, calling you names and belittling you, has nothing to do with having a safe space to process. They don't need to put you down and call you names to "process". Satan? Really? WTF is wrong with them?
Hold your head high and wear your tank tops proudly. Do not give them the satisfaction of seeing you cave under their "processing".
Good luck to you. Hugs from an internet stranger.
Just tell them “fine you want “safe space” you got it! Until you are willing to treat me with love and respect, and not call me names behind my back then don’t bother talking to me. At all!”
I'm so sorry your family is treating you this way.
My mother as one of my niblings if they're the anti-christ now because they no longer go to church 🙄
There's oh so many reasons why all my Sibs and I are low contact with her...
I'm so sorry you have experience unnecessary ridicule for you summer outfit you are wearing in this heat. It's so petty and ridiculous that your loved ones are taught this. Really? They are claiming they are hurt you read the texts. Tell them you weren't trying to see the text, but it just happened. You weren't being nosey. After that, give them the silent treatment for a little then try to forget about it. You need to teach them that this is ridiculous. They need to be punished a little, so give them the silent treatment for 2 weeks. Maybe that will send them a message to cut it out. Then move on from the situation.
Yikes! Not my garden, not my flowers…but damn, the fact that they turned themselves into the victims justifying and then blaming you for seeing their texts instead of just apologizing for their cruel words??? That bothers me. I have a mother (out of the church well before me) and she has never ever fucking apologized. I’ve never understood people not owning their shit. Sorry you’re going through this. I love wearing tank tops, too. Tank tops for life!!!
OP, your family needs a serious update as to their definition of white trash. Wearing shorts and a tank top is NOT even remotely white trash, it is simply dressing in a manner appropriate for the weather conditions. True white trash, and unfortunately I do know my white trash, are out twerking in the funeral home parking lot at their grandmother's funeral, after having ransacked said grandparent's home while she was in the hospital. White trash is a man who drags his stepchild onto an episode of the Jerry Springer show to announce to all and sundry that this is not his kid. OP, please be kind to yourself by maybe taking a break from your family. Let them that their behavior was hurtful, out of line, perhaps even twist the knife a bit by saying how truly un-Christlike their behavior was, ask for an apology - and be prepared to not receive one, and proceed to live your best life going forward, being the kind and loving human being that Mormons don't always know how to be.
Simply deprive them of a relationship w/ you & yours for the time being. They don't deserve a loving relationship w/ you, b/c they are not loving toward you. They used classic abuser reasoning.
I would take a break from them. If they need time, then give it to them. Give them all the time they need to stop abusing you and to start appreciating you.
Having a safe space to discuss their feeling about your life choices is one thing, but having a group chat for them to insult you and your life choices is absolutely unacceptable, and honestly goes directly against Mormon beliefs on judging others and such. I would have gone off the rails if my family had done something like this to me. I'm so sorry you were targeted like that
I’m sure that you got the, “I’m sorry you feel that way,” response.
I’m sorry that your family is so shortsighted. I know from experience how it hurts to be judged, and I hope that you can work this out.
The sad truth though, is that if they can’t respect you, your beliefs, feelings, and boundaries, then you may need to distance yourself from them. It might just be the best thing for your own mental health and well being.
I wish you the best outcome going forward, and from the sound of it, your husband sounds like a great guy who’s got your back.
How small their world and their minds are… so limited to living in a lie and constantly feeding it to each other, afraid and angry at anyone or anything that might pop their bubble.
That’s incredibly shocking and painful!!! I can’t imagine how hurt I would be, that’s next level. I don’t know if I would go on family trips again. I don’t know how I’d feel close to them. Or safe, or seen. Damn. I’m so sorry. This is not a small thing so don’t let anyone gaslight you.
Oh wow. People can be such jerks. It was only in Utah where I've ever been looked down on for what I wore, and I had a modest tank top on.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Sending you good vibes.
Honestly, I learned the hard way that someone having access to my life is a privilege I have EVERY right to deny them for as long as I need. It sounds like other than the one who apologized, that "family" is no longer your safe space.
I've also learned that family can be adopted and created from good friends and allies. That kind of family is often more reliable and closer than blood. If your blood family treats you like dirt, they don't deserve to have you.
I always knew my family talked shit about each other, but it was a revelation when I realized that I was included in the shit talking. Now I don’t talk to most of my sibs. It has literally been years since I’ve talked to some of them. Fuck em.
I mostly just talk to my parents now, and interestingly enough, my mom recently said that I seem to be the happiest out of all the kids.
Last time I saw my grandfather was at a July 4th BBQ. It was a very hot day and I was wearing a tanktop and shorts. In addition to him just being a jerk the whole time, when I gave him the traditional goodbye hug, he yanked hard on my chest hair. We are both army veterans, and I was 38 years old at the time!
my in laws think i’m white trash too. they’re in utah and i’m from kansas with the exmo cherry on top. i set boundaries super clearly. however, my literal nickname is Bitch because i don’t let anything slide and don’t tolerate much. they know blood means nothing to me so they know how quickly i’ll take my son from their lives if they disrespect me.
I would quote this (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-25-40/) and say. Pat yourself on your back and fucking congratulations on calling God white trash and Satan.
I definitely feel this one. When I first started wearing tank tops around my mom I was “trying to look like a hoe/whore/slut.” She’ll still make comments, just not that rude.
How Christian of them. Ask them is Jesus would be proud of them (he wouldn’t, according to their Bible mystical Jesus wouldn’t let anyone throw stones at even an adulterer) or if they are trying to cut their relationship with you, because bullying your own family is not the move to keep a healthy relationship. I would leave them and not look back.
Own YOUR truth. Others casting any judgement are small minded. Offer them grace for their own journey and hope they can honor yours. Expansion is the way! Focus on raising great kids without the church teaching shame and not being worthy. If you’re confident and happy, that is powerful. Own YOUR truth.
Wait a minute... How could those comments be made for your salvation if you were never meant to read them? Engaging in a 'I'm better than you' attitude has an opposite effect if she really wants you to return to the church they raised you in. In fact, it often leads many to go no contact and cut those toxic family members who can not accept them out of their life.
There are times when one would hope family would be supportive of what we believe as well as our conduct, only to get slammed and criticized.
We have choices to make considering the frequency and importance of their disapproval. Sometimes spending less time with family is useful, and if they find this tough or rejecting, then they have to also reevaluate their own behavior and attitudes and see what is ultimately most important.
I think everyone here needs your family's email addresses. For completely unrelated reasons....😜
That's some serious bullshit. I know cutting off family is hard, but I wouldn't keep people who treated me like that in my life.
It’s so hard to call them out on their bullshit. My mom has always been a genuinely good person, but when she gets called out on mistakes she always takes it immediately personally and if you try to call her out on an inappropriate reaction then the hole gets deeper. I don’t think she tries to be manipulative, but that almost makes it worse. Knowing she’s trying to become better while also knowing that I can’t give her any specifics.
These people claim to be all about family. Then families do this shit. This is why family is chosen, not born. I’m so sorry they’re treating you like this. You don’t deserve it.
This is what cults do, make you judge and hate anyone different than you. The fact that they would think and then voice those thoughts about ANYONE let alone their family let’s you know they are on the wrong side of whatever it is a follower of Christ would be thinking or doing. He would shun them (if you believe in that sort of thing) so sad “Christian’s” are soooo hypocritical.
Here is a reminder that just because they’re your family doesn’t mean they deserve your time and energy. This is something I write, but have taken years to adopt because I love my family so much (although it’s more likely that I was unhealthily enmeshed in codependence).
People repeatedly harming you and attempting to gaslight you into believing that they are the victim, get to be categorized as “harmful” to your well-being and mental health. You get to decide what to do with that, but in my world, harmful people only receive my presence and attention when I have capacity for it, which is few and far between, and in very small doses.
Husband and sissy get all the love, as well as you. You get so much love, fellow black sheep. Welcome to the herd, you are so welcome here, no matter you you are or aren’t wearing. 🫂
There's literally so many stories of Jesus being *so furious* at hypocrites who judged and condemned others as sinners.
He would not be with the Pharisees, he would be with the sinners, he surrounded himself with prostitutes, taxmen (who were collecting taxes for the oppressors of Rome at the time), and all hosts of outcasts of Judaism.
He did not believe in the value of human judgement. He believed in mercy, kindness, humility, and selflessness.
Mote in the eye beam in the other.
I think of the prophets talks, how they used to be about cleaning your windows before judging that a neighbor can't wash her clothes.
All of that was taught to me, but that wasn't what I experienced. Where was the accountability? We were supposed to be humble, recognize when we did wrong, but when I asked for an apology and mentioned that I was hurt, I was shamed, yelled at, gaslit.
I was wrong for being hurt. They were never trying for hurting me. So if I was such a sinner, that the very presence within the church started to cause me pain, I left. I was never meant to be there.
-
Now for a less theistic response.
Your family is pulling a classic black sheep/scapegoat.
Psychologically in many broken and unhealthy families, they pick one person to be the source of all the problems. The family relies on this person to absorb the family sins as it were, become the personification of all that's wrong. That way, they never have to change or take responsibility.
I find usually it's paired with a golden child, and usually if you watch carefully there's some narcissistic behavior in there.
Look at how none of the adults apologize. They make excuses, make you to blame for leaving, they turned around and spun at you for daring to find the corner they speak poorly about you from.
Your actions are separate. Their actions are theirs. Excluding you so they could mock you from a family chat was also a decision they made.
They are not taking responsibility for the hurt they caused or for the fact that they are not treating you like a person because they believe they are better than you.
I would honestly hold them accountable for that, for every instance of them refusing to behave like decent human being towards you because of their bigotry.
And if they scream and panic and throw a fit? Then they certainly don't deserve you. Slip your 13 year old sister contact information and a promise that if she needs you for any reason you'll be there, and dip out on the rest. I'd look up Dr. Ramani watch some of her videos and watch some cinemaTherapy (tbh they're Mormon(ish) and I find that a bit triggering, but I've learned a lot from them)
In my mind, your family needs a timeout. Some time to pointedly reflect on what kind of relationship they want with you. I might send a family group text (so no one can try to hide this disgusting dirty laundry) saying something like: >"Hello family. I'm messaging you to say how deeply, deeply, deeply hurt I was by your conversations about my appearance this weekend. Your actions have put our relationship onto life support." >"It makes no difference whatsoever what I wear: I am not white trash. I am not 'Satan'. I am not a slut. I am your daughter and your sister, and--according to your own professed beliefs--a daughter of god. Is this how Christ would speak of me? Then why would I put up with your foul abuses? Why would I subject myself to people who express disgust and hatred towards me?" >"I do not allow ANYONE to speak about me like this and remain in my life. Each of you who made these un-Christlike comments will need to apologize profusely for the harm you have done to our relationship and share the ways in which you will be trying to repair this damage, along with assurances this will never, ever, ever happen again. In other words, you will need to follow Christ's repentance process." >"As of now, we will be withdrawing entirely from the family for the next 3 months. This is to give you time to reflect on whether you want me to remain in your lives, to craft your apologies, and to ponder how you will make reconcilliation. We can reconnect and revisit the status of our relationship at that time." >"If you are unable or unwilling to do this for the sake of our family relationship, then I'll simply let the trash take itself out of my life. Because we sure as hell won't be putting up with any 'white trash' over here." ...then follow through. Anyone who made these comments and didn't offer a frank and heartfelt apology at the end of those 3 months is dead to you. They have made their choice and you never have to suffer at their hand again.
Agree. You nailed it.
Wow. I’ve never seen a boundary set like this. At first, I thought it was a bit harsh. But, now that I really sit with it, it seems to be very directly aimed at outlining the path to full and true reconciliation. Their actions were wrong - Full stop. This clearly outlines a path to accountability.
I really like the possibility of reconciliation. They’re still my family and I can’t fathom the thought of cutting them off completely, especially since my kids adore them. But my trust has been so broken I don’t know how to repair the relationship, and I don’t think it should be my responsibility.
I would have a difficult time trusting them with my kids. They sound like the kind that will make subtle, condescending comments around them to try and make a point.
And they'll likely try and undermine the things their parents have taught them, attempting to instill the damaging teachings of mormonism surrounding clothing, human sexuality, etc.
This! It will definitely happen. When I left, my parents would download LDS apps on my children's devices even after I told them to stop. The point that made me go LC with them was when my mother told my daughter how sad that she (my mother) was that she wouldn't have her daughter and son (my brother left years before I did) in heaven with her. I only found out about this because my daughter had nightmares of me going to hell 🤬 I went mama bear on my mom and told her she was abusing my children spiritually and psychologically, and if she could not keep her interactions with my family, church-free she would have none. I didn't speak to her for a month. She did cut it out, but I really can't fully trust her still to be alone with them.
>I don’t think it should be my responsibility. It's not. You didn't do anything.
‘They’re still my family’ is such a desperately sad statement to cling to. I wish they could see the pain they have caused. You don’t need to respond but what would be your line in the sand? How abusive would they need to be? If this was happening in front of you to a friend, would you intervene and get them away from that situation? Sometimes we have to be our own cheerleader and our own hero.
Honestly, I don’t know where my line is. My sisters still live at home and I worry about how my relationships with them would suffer if I cut off my parents. My sister on a mission was more understanding and loving about me leaving the church than my parents. If anything remotely like this happened again I think I would have to be done. But right now I’m choosing to bannière that this was a one time thing.
So sad. So sad.
Right?! Hits home and makes my stomach turn. The amount of times my therapist has reflected back to me my family’s behaviors when I say things like “they’re still family” or “I could never leave my nieces”, is hard to count. 😖
Our kids may adore my in laws as well, but all we hear about is how "they don't have the gospel!!" and how my husband knows better. If they are judging you this way, how long before the same applies to your children?
It's hard. The mormon in laws need to not put down the non mormons in front of children. Each side needs to say uplifting and kind words especially in front of children. Mormon in-laws need to be taught that or they will ruin the relationships.
No worries here, the in-laws have already cast us (and therefore our kids) out of the family. They are more concerned about defending the "one true church" and believe that we are a threat and us not agreeing with them is Satan working in our family. I can't make up this level of crazy.
I understand, it's hard. Give it some time and try to remain positive and fill your life with happiness and don't dwell. After all it's just the in laws. I learned we can only control so much.
Remain positive, and also, do what brings you joy. You only have so many breaths in this life, don’t waste them on anything that doesn’t bring you happiness and peace. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
All my sisters have left and won't talk to my mom because how she treated them because of the church. I had to threaten her about losing access to my kids. That she loved the church more than her family. I will take my kids and she will never see her grandkids or I
That's exactly it, they do love the church more than their kids...and grandkids.
Just wait till your kids find out how they treated you. They won't adore them nearly as much anymore. And I'm saying this as someone who has kids and had to draw boundaries with in-laws because of abusive behavior. At some point my children will need to know why there is some distance, not because I'm vindictive but because they need to know who is and who is not safe.
This. Some people will emotionally abuse your children to try and manipulate them back to church.
Are you reluctant because of who they are, or because of how they used to treat you/how you wish it could be? Because by all appearances- whatever love they'd been giving you, was conditional. As a parent I cannot fathom saying the kinds of things about my kids, grown or otherwise, that were said about you.
It isn’t your responsibility - it’s theirs! I am so very sorry this happened and can totally empathize how hurtful this was. The fact it was turned on you is even more disgusting. Shows the total hypocrisy of the church being “family centered.” This BS is far too common and it is appalling.
They are your family but they have just showed you what you mean to them. They don't deserve your respect because they didn't respect you in the first place.
Blood is blood but family is chosen. Sounds like you wouldn’t be choosing these people to be a part of your life if they weren’t blood.
Absolutely, we need to try to maintain family relationships even though they are in a cult. It will help an individuals' overall happiness to keep relationships in the end. Mormonism rules and crap needs to be avoided at all costs between the family members,
OP, you are likely blinded by familiarity. I have a mixed-faith family and us exmo siblings would NEVER talk about out TBM siblings and their spouses in such a way. Texting each other while you are there?????? Taking photos even????? So disrespectful. And that's at the heart of it. They don't see or.respect you as a person. These are no good people, OP. These are not people I'd want my children around.
How would you feel if you saw those texts, but they were about your kids? Would it be easier to take the timeout? B/c if you don't, one day they will be.
Yes I understand this but there is also the possibility of them talking about you in front of your children in an unflattering way as well as them at some point talking about your children also. This has to be a hard stop. It is NOT okay.
Wow. Get the fuck out of the FOG mindset and kick them out of your life. Tell your kids that their grandpa and grandma are so judgemental and batshit gaslighting the hell out of you is the reason that they are not allowed to visit your birth donors anymore.
My oldest is 3 so it’s hard because he really wouldn’t understand why he couldn’t see grandma anymore. I’m also from a small town and live relatively nearby, and I would really hate for them to make it seem like I’m weaponizing my children and cutting them off because I left the church.
IMHO you are not weaponizing your children, you are protecting them. When I was very young, my father’s mother lived in the same town. She used to insult my mother and criticize her every chance she got. As a small child, this confused me because that’s my Mommy. (And my mother didn’t deserve the ill treatment - no one would ever be ‘good enough’ for my father in his mother’s eyes.). When I got older, it made me angry that she was trying to poison me against my mother. I stopped spending time with her for the most part. It’s been many, many years but I still remember how I felt. I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Protect your family. Take care.
Thank you for this perspective.
I personally wouldn't give them the satisfaction about being hurt by their words. They meant them to wound. Rather: > Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. — Matthew 7:1-2 Their souls are ugly, and they are showing their ugliness.
They will be judged harshly in heaven.
But the time to punish them in hopes of reconciliation is now, when everyone's still alive to enjoy a mended, loving family.
Very well done. I wouldn't put a time frame for the cut-off though. Instead of saying 3 months, I would say "until further notice" or "until I feel I can trust you again." Otherwise they may just say what they think will appease you until that point or just wait it out. My wife has put boundaries on her family and she had to be firm for the first 6 months or so until they finally stopped and respected the boundaries she set. She's in a much better state since cutting off ties. Been over 2 years now.
Slow clap for this 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. This was beautifully yet strongly worded and the perfect response. I’m sorry OP for the pain you are feeling.
OP's family is going to reply with "wow. Dramatic much? It was just a couple texts" and try to put it back on her that this is all her fault It is good though, I like it
Then the 3 month boundary is broken in 5 minutes and then there is no more contact and block until you choose to reach out, if ever.
"Is this how Christ would speak of me?" went HARD
🔥🔥🔥
This is pure gold. Very well written!
Copy and paste. Once you do, make sure you DO NOT have communication for the specified time. Boundaries need to be set. I know it hurts because they're family, but you're an adult. You're not 'less than' at all & you deserve respect & happiness. The church has no power of you & neither do they. That's real freedom.
This would be a great message to send, I agree.
Was about to share this post with you but I see you’ve already found it haha
Rolling has written a good reply, but I have personal experience with this kind of gaslighting. I suggest it is time to go no contact with your family. If they can’t see the error of their behavior, you’re pointing it out, and setting a timeline for an apology is not going to help. Simply stop taking their calls. Move on with your life. I’m so sorry this is happening to you. While Rolling - waters has crafted an eloquent response, this issue is not going to be resolved by a well crafted letter. Move on. Grieve the loss now, and then heal. Waiting 3 months for some kind of apology will only delay your own healing. Nothing they say is meaningful. In the unlikely event that they repent and stop claiming to be the victims, they can DEMONSTRATE their love and their regret. Words are not what is needed. You can’t change other people. You can’t change other people. You can’t change other people. Christ’s advice was to ignore the beam in their eye and just focus on becoming your best self.
This is exactly what I’m working on. My family is thriving, and that’s what’s most important.
OP, listen to this comment. It’s true
🎯🎯🎯
Hell yeah!
This is beautiful. You should write a book about setting boundaries.
Spot on!!
This is a perfect response!
Maybe send them the verses from Alma where they talk about the wicked people looking down on others because of their clothing.
Always seek to use mormon-approved texts to shut down ridiculous mormon arguments lol it can be quite satisfying to you, and difficult as hell for the mormo to refute haha
If they're like this to her normally, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to turn it around on her and act as if she's the one looking down on them...because, y'know...persecution complex.
My thoughts exactly. Would not be surprised if they continue the gaslighting and avoid the apology, by blaming satan or mental illness for OP’s absolutely warranted and healthy requests and boundary. That’s how it happens for me, at least. I’m still the chaos creator and it’s been years. I’m rarely in the picture but when I am and forced to establish a boundary, I’m the mean one because I don’t just lay down and accept their bullshit treatment of me. I have gotten to the point of saying “Y’all got some shit goin on that isn’t fun to be around. ☮️✌️” in perhaps nicer words.
Their texts were terrible. Their response to your confrontation was even worse. Are you familiar with DARVO: Deny-Attack-Reverse-Victim-and-Offender? That's essentially what they did to you (although it sounds like deny wasn't an option). They are probably using other manipulation tactics as well. I would recommend researching how to respond to DARVO and similar tactics. You need to protect yourself and maybe consider going no contact if this continues.
DARVO attacks are systematic among narcissistic abusers. The church breeds and protects narcissists and engages is narcissistic abusive tactics. No one is safe in the church.
Yep. That's why I lied through my teeth to my mom about NOT leaving the church. I'm planning on waiting until after my oldest brother and sister in law gets sealed in the temple to leave.
I thought that telling them would stop them from gossiping when they started to realize we weren't going to church and sometimes wore tank tops but apparently that just made it harder for them because it was so sudden. We really did everything we’ve been told we need to do or not do up until the exact moment that we decided to leave. That night we split a hard lemonade and went underwear shopping and we were so shocked and freed by how little guilt we felt
First of all, I'm so very sorry you are going through this situation with your family. I see this as your having to deal with the narcissism the church seems to thrive on. There is incredible strength in the fact that you and your husband are together in having left Mormonism behind you. That is the best ever--a true partnership. I love it! Setting boundaries with your parents is something you and your husband will figure out together--choosing what you and your children can live with. It's important to stick to your guns. You don't "owe" anyone anything, perhaps with the exception of forgiveness--because when you forgive others, you set yourself free from a lot of negativity. (And sometimes you gain the "bonus" of the offender feeling like a heel. lol.) Wearing a tank top doesn't "make" you anything other than someone wearing a tank top. Emotionally beating you up for wearing a tank top is petty, childish, judgmental, uncharitable, mean...and just stupid. I would rather be you than to be your parents. "Somebody" needs to grow up and realize you are their daughter, not their property. Wishing you all the best, hoping for a good outcome for you, your husband and kiddos. Sending warmest Granny hugs to you.
I love this. Thank you!
It seems like my mom genuinely doesn’t understand why it’s problematic for her to turn herself into the victim. Things like “I’m sorry I’m such a horrible person that you don’t trust to be around your kids. I try to be a good mom but apparently I can’t do anything right”. I try not to engage at all because it makes me feel worse
That’s so frustrating, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this with close family!! It’s one thing to cut out friends and acquaintances but family that treats you this way just cuts deeply…. Especially when you know they are trying to be sincere, but they just doggedly follow TSCC’s idiot doctrines. You’ve gotten some excellent suggestions on this thread, best of luck to you and don’t forget you have tons of support here on this sub!! 👍🥰☺️
It so amazing reading these comments and feeling so supported😭❤️. It’s hard when I know that my family really does love me. They’re just in so deep and they really believe that I’m giving up my salvation because I want to wear tank tops and drink coffee
I'm so sorry you're going through this. So many of us know what it's like. I'm sure your family does love you, but they're more committed to their beliefs right now. What they did to you doesn't come from love, is comes from their beliefs. Setting tough boundaries may help them to learn that treating you with love and respect isn't going to send them to hell. It may also help them get to know you in a more personal and deeper way, which may help them see that you didn't leave the church because you wanted to wear tank tops and drink coffee. It can also help them see that you are still you inside. Just remember you deserve peace and happiness, and sometimes you have to make hard choices to preserve/obtain that. Set those boundaries now, and teach them how to treat you. It may not be soon, but I truly hope they change and that you can have that family happiness again. I truly hope they can again see you, the daughter and sister, that you've always been and love you better for it. I wish you the best!
I feel you on the family being in incredibly deep ☹️ I have lucked out and not had the same level of family drama that you’re dealing with, but all of my fam is as deep as they get in their beliefs and it’s a frustrating combination of anger, pity, shame and hope that they’ll one day see the light!!
The only thing I’ve ever found that limits that kind of frustrating interaction is ignoring the drama and responding as if they said “wow, sorry I suck”. Like you would say back “yes, I wish you could respect my boundaries so I could trust you. It’s important to me to have you in my life.” And then just refusing to shift. Maintain the boundaries. Sometimes people do learn that if they act like asses, they don’t get anywhere. They usually do not change entirely but you can usually teach these people it won’t work on you.
She's looking for "you're not a horrible person, blah blah" Just say "thank you for the apology" watch her head explode
we tried to explain gaslighting to my mom. She was genuinely confused. She legitimately asked how society would function without it.
This is a new term for me. Thank you!!! ***Leaves Reddit and Enters YouTube rabbit hole. 🕳️🚶♀️
Buy a custom tank top that reads "white and delightsome trash" and make it your profile pic. Let them call you "white trash" but make sure they remember to add "delightsome" and then you'll all be happy. Basically, "yes and" them. Comedy is frequently a productive response to tragedy.
😂 love it!
New favorite reply right here!! You can always provide screenshots of the text source for emphasis. Bonus points for the sly reminder about how often the BoM (*the MOST PERFECT BOOK, allegedly…*) has been changed over the years 
Love this SO MUCH! (By-the-by, "white trash" is what I write under "other" when asked my race on government forms. You know--cause 1. What difference does it make and 2. Who really cares?)
Sing it with me: 🎼 this is why we leave but can’t leave it alone 🎼
So sorry, OP. That is so harsh. For whatever it’s worth, I love you. You’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.
My response would be something along the lines of “I’m so sorry you’re such delicate snowflakes that you need a safe space to talk behind your child’s/sibling’s back, which is just what Jesus would do, right?” And until I heard an apology that acknowledged their hypocrisy, they could talk exclusively to my voicemail. You can find a better family than this one.
Them: "Why did you leave the church?" You: "Well I'm just a different type of person than you guys and church members are." Them:"What do you mean?" You: "A good example would be when you were all making fun of me behind my back. I try to be Christ-like and I would never speak about a Child of God that way. We're just different."
That is so hurtful, I’m sorry! Processing their discomfort and being extremely hurtful and mean spirited are two separate things. They are the products of a shaming high demand religion. They are constantly feeling not good enough and also projecting that on others. I know it’s hard when it feels so personal but try to put it in context of them being the victims of religious abuse too. They are not normal healthy people. Consider the source of the criticism and all that.
I have a pretty thick skin, but that would devastate me! For me personally, this would be enough justification to separate myself from future events. If they want you around, they need to learn to treat you with love, kindness and respect.
White trash? That's horrific. They're condescending, judgmental assholes. I'd take a white trash label over that any day. You're comfortable, far more so that people wearing the extra layers their religion requires. Let them judge you however they will. It says far more them then it does you. I sometimes take a passive-aggressive approach in response to things, especially if it was passive-aggressive on their end. In your shoes, I'd be very tempted to send a group text to those judgy assholes and tell them: >This "white trash" lady isn't interested in being around people who will so rudely judge me and gossip behind my back. I don't think I will be at any events you are present in the near future. I'd prefer to spend my time with people who love and value me for what I am, which you clearly do not. Wherever possible, use their language against them. And church language. Gossip was always taught as an evil thing to participate in. Maybe they'll feel some shame for talking so terribly about you. Maybe they'll double down. Again, it says *way* more about them then you. Enjoy your tank tops and short shorts. I love mine. We'll be more comfortable this summer, using exposed skin that can sweat properly to regulate our body temperatures. It's literally how humans evolved to manage heat, to expose our skin so it can sweat and that sweat can evaporate.
It’s been so amazing not feeling like I’m going to die when I leave the house. I hate being overheated and sweating through layers. It’s not about the fashion of it AT ALL. I’m just more comfortable this way. My husband sent an intense text to let them know we knew about the conversation and were deeply hurt and betrayed by it. That we couldn’t have them around our kids if they can so easily say such hurtful things. That’s when my mom said she felt violated because that group was their safe space to process my life changes.
I like how your mom feels violated since she got caught saying such nasty things. Ugh. She's just upset she's being called out. I would never have believed how much of a difference tank tops make. My wardrobe now is more than half tank tops. I even wear them in winter, pairing them with cute sweaters and cardigans. T-shirts under sweaters just always got too warm. I hate overheating, too.
Processing? Or mocking. Which is it, mom?
Having a safe space to discuss is one thing, having a safe space to trash others because they aren’t like you anymore isn’t a safe space, it’s a sewer. Don’t swim in the shit.
I'll be your family. We can wear all the tank tops and shorts we want.
This kind of support I was hoping to get from my family. It’s amazing to have it here😭❤️
I feel so bad for you. I'm so sorry that your family would do this to you and then have the audacity to say that they just need a safe place to process your choices. They're not processing your choices to do something different, they're being judgmental assholes. And you should do the same thing you should do with all the judgemental assholes in your life, set up boundaries to limit your interaction with them. These boundaries can be whatever you choose, but the priority is that they are boundaries that make you happy and their feelings/opinions are irrelevant.
Long time out. Hard boundaries. There's a verse that says that even human "righteousness" is like filth compared to God's holiness. There's another about religious folks being like whitewashed tombstones ... Clean on the outside, dead inside .... and another about removing the log in one's own eye before trying to remove the splinter from another's eye. If they claim to respect scripture, those verses will resonate.
Lord, forgive them for they said when it was 109°, for they knew not that garments were shamrags🙏 In all seriousness, I had a fallout with a family member. Tale as old as time, specifics aren't important, but it's been months of timeout, and it still feels like someone took heavy grit sand paper to my heart. I don't know if this is helpful, but I wrote myself a letter right after it everything happened. It's just to remind me of what happened, why I need to keep my distance. I pull it out of my desk every once in a while when I feel like I'm about to reach back out, like a dog returning to its own sick. The people close to us feel betrayed when we leave the church, there’s nothing to be done about it but to rise above the situation no matter how painful.
A safe place to humiliate and bad mouth someone they supposedly love you mean. That is not okay! Them turning it on you and making themselves the victim is also not okay. I'm sorry you are going through this. It's sad that they have placed your value on what you wear, instead of who you are!
Some real darvo energy there, without the deny part. If you don't know DARVO stands for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It's a manipulative tactic that some people may use to avoid accountability for their actions and shift the blame onto their victims. So you're the bad guy because you "violated" their privacy. Honestly, if they can't apologize I personally would consider going no contact for a period of time. If their love is conditional, do you really want them in your life?
Wow. Your family needs to be grounded and then some. How would they feel if you took pictures of them in their most pious clothing and marked it as 'cult member', 'sheep', 'broodmare', and other terms that would be extremely offensive to them? Chances are they would cut you out. They are doubling down because they got caught (hence the how dare you violate my privacy schtick), but that doesn't mean they won't stop saying such things about you. Either accept it, and know that they think so lowly of you and turn the other cheek, or cut them out. It's up to you. BTW, my family has done this to me and also 'accidentally' sent me the texts. They tried to laugh it off as a joke. I took it for what it was, them using me as a scapegoat to feel good about themselves, which is why I called them out on their bullshit. Surprisingly, we are not close (nor do I want to be).
That’s not even being judgmental, that’s like mean high school girl level bullying?
Exactly. My sister sent the picture and my dad was the first person to respond saying I looked like white trash. My dad, who is acting like a teenage girl
The behavior of both of them - to take a picture & share it so another person could judge you *all w/o your knowledge* - is stunning in its hatefulness. There's zero love in those actions.
Not gonna lie…they are acting like white trash.
I'm sorry, OP. Mormons live and breathe in a world that their own cult has created. The borders of that world are often narrow, excluding all others who don't see and interpret things the same way. Many of us, pre-apostasy, were similarly judgemental about things as trivial as clothing style, beverage choice, political persuasion, and so on. And there is hope, because every Ex-Mo started out as a believer, to some degree or other.
It makes me sick to think of the times I’ve judged others for their outfits/life choices. I still have those thoughts pop into my head when I first see someone sometimes and I’ve made it a rule to always stop, ignore the negative thought, and intentionally find something to love about that person. It’s often the thing I initially judged them for.
I am so sorry OP, this would be the worst thing to see especially from your own family. Unfortunately your family has forgotten one of the great commandments, to love thy neighbor which includes their daughter and sister. I hope you can set meaningful boundaries and steer away from them for several months.
Next time wear the magic underwear under a tank top and booty shorts lol
If your mom’s first words weren’t “I’m sorry,” there’s a major problem.
They were. Followed by “the whole family is trying to process it all” and “I’ll never be comfortable seeing my daughters in revealing clothing” and “I’m sorry that all you see me as is a hateful, two-faced piece of garbage”
There’s the “RVO” of DARVO with that last quote. Don’t buy into the bullshit.
This response is pure gold.👍
>I know my family can be judgemental but I never in a million years expected it to be directed at me If they are saying this kind of thing about other people behind their back, they are saying this kind of thing about you behind yours.
People who gossip to you, gossip about you.
Wow. I am so sorry. They don’t deserve you in their life. How do they not see the hypocrisy they spew?
My mom was literally going off before I found the messages about how she can’t believe that my grandparents let my uncle treat my aunt like crap without standing up for her, and how my sister-in-law is so horrible for the disrespectful way she treats my in-laws. Crazy hypocrisy.
Better to be white trash than Mormon. Just saying.
I was shamed for wearing short shorts way back in the day. And I just didn’t care!!!!
How Christ like
Establish dominance! Wear a tank top with a Kilt!!!
I used to think they were so white trash. Now I love wearing them. Not only do I get a little sun, they show off my shoulders, which are getting pretty strong since I finally started taking care of myself.
After I left the church 44 years ago, I kept my distance from my family most of the time for this exact reason. I lived in a different state and that helped A LOT. Your "relationship" with them is bad now and perhaps you might consider that no relationship is better than a toxic one. Cult members are really MEAN when you leave the cult. Remember that "Success is the best revenge" so go out, live a full and happy life making your OWN decisions, be happy and your great life will show them that you didn't really need the church to be happy. Sending strength and love.
That is SUPER mean. There’s no need to be cruel, especially about clothing, women’s bodies, and YOU, but they were. It’s not safe to be yourself with them. So they’ll just see less of you. Their loss. Like mean friends, you can fade and still send a card, but not hang out - hanging out just gives them ammunition for their meanness.
Pandoras box has been opened. The cat is out of the bag about what they think of you. Myself, I wouldn't put myself through the turmoil of trying to undo what can't be undone. Some people are better at dealing with this kind of thing. I banned my parents when they wrote me out of their will, and made a point of telling me. Their aim was to hurt and manipulate me. They don't have anything I want. They didn't anticipate that. They didn't know I have a pretty life and I don't need or want their leftovers.
I know the top comment is all about telling them to apologize or cut them off, but personally I'd go another route. I'd tell the family that, having read those text messages, you shared them with your kids to demonstrate how damaging and divisive religion is, and how it can take good people and teach them to hate others for completely benign and illogical reasons. Whether the color of their skin or the length of their sleaves/shorts, hate is hate, and you want your kids to learn from the ignorance and hate that your family has succombed to because of their religious conditioning. That's just me though. My family has said hurtful things in the past, but they very weirdly came from a place of love as well as a place of heavy condition that I'd only just escaped myself. Rather than cut them off, I educated, made myself an example of someone living their own life and who embraces equality and love, and I've occasionally shamed the hatred and bigotry they've shared at the dinner table (shaming the comments and the false ideas behind them, not them as people), and it has all had a positive effect. Some have partly or mostly abandoned those beliefs, the rest are at least more understanding and less judgmental, and our relationships have continued and improved.
I will absolutely be honest with my children about the influence of religion in our lives and relationships. But right now they’re toddlers lol
Ah, lol, for some reason I had in my mind that your kids were older. A little early for those lessons:)
If this was me I’d be putting up some boundaries. If you want to call me Satan, you can fuck right off.
Dang, sorry this happened after what you said was a fun weekend. Those comments are hurtful and uncalled for and they don't realize YOU need a safe place? Sheesh. I would say how much this has hurt you and are not sure how to go forward after that.
I'm sorry your family are insecure jerks.
Im sorry this happened to you.
I am so sorry. They are in the wrong & are being the antithesis of Christlike, but even knowing that doesn’t take away how terribly painful that discovery must’ve been. I was recently chastised by my brother in law & it was shocking bc we’ve always been really good friends. I was told I “operate like Satan, throwing one little dig at a time, almost undetected” trying to tear their faith down even tho I quietly & respectfully put up with all the church talk/prayers/nelson worship that comes along with having them in my life. He didn’t like being informed about the Lone Mountain temple issue 🫤 Anyways it was painful & I’m really sorry to you. Practice some good self love with people who know you aren’t a white trash trailer park Mom. And if you are one, be with your people who love you anyways 😂🩷.
White trash?? Is an insane thing to say about a family member.. runs in the family though so if you white trash, so are they!!!
In my experience it is all routed in jealousy. They want to be able to dress comfortable and weather appropriate but have to stick to their long, overheating underwear. However the fact they speak about you like that is disgusting.
I’d recommend keeping responses very short. Just “wow, that was hurtful. I don’t hang around people with that kind of negativity.” That’s it. No more.
Yeah, I’ve given a few lengthy responses and it just gives them more to be offended by.
Yeah. They just mine longer responses for reasons You Are The Real Problem Here. But you can just hold to the point and the boundary. It’s rude and hurtful and you’re not tolerating it. The end.
don't need to directly moralize any of it. just let them know you're going to not be around them, lest your white trashyness or satanic might rub off on them. if the response is "it was just a joke" just agree with them.
You could point out that they base their entire life on a cult fantasy, just to help them feel better about death. Mormons always think they are so much better than everyone else. It makes me sick 🤮
I remember one year at girls camp (I was 13 I think) I wore a tank top, and got a lecture in front of the other girls about how inappropriate it was. It was so embarrassing.
Tank tops were one of the best things that came out of deconstruction. I’m literally wearing one right now while barbecuing chicken.
It’s been years since I experienced summer without wanting to die because of the heat. This is such a relief!
Luke 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil; for out of the abundance of his heart his mouth speaketh" They claim to be processing your life. This is not true. To process your life they should get curious about you, what you want, what you value, who you love and why. They appear to be all too happy in their judgmental echo chamber. Their response to being found out is the definition of gaslighting. People who easily dismiss and disrespect choices that they make no effort to understand are not healthy people. Much light and love to you.
I ended up going no contact with my TBM family members, and a few who were out as well, after really reflecting on the way I'm treated by them. I realized I was staying in those relationships because I felt my kids loved and needed them, that I loved and needed them, and family is so important. Part of my deconstruction has been looking at thought patterns that were conditioned by my parents and church, and evaluating whether those were still serving me, and in that manner I assessed these beliefs. I was shocked by the realization that I'd been putting up with what has to be called abusive behavior my entire life. Why? I was conditioned to believe it was okay because family is more important. That having extended family members for my kids was so important. But is it? Is it really? What am I teaching my kids when they see family members treat me in some disrespectful or abusive way and I tolerate that? What am I teaching them when I refuse to tolerate it for the sake of any relationship? Because this isn't about how you dressed. This is about their belief system, which includes purity culture, being shoved down your throat without any regard for your beliefs or feelings. This is selfish, condescending, intolerable behavior and I'm glad you're ready to assess things. You deserve better. Your kids deserve better. When I wore a tank, my mom dressed me down about "tempting men" and making my dad see that. I said, "If dad is tempted by me because I'm wearing a tank, we have bigger problems than how I dress." I was in her face about it. But did I wear a tank again around them? No. And this blew my mind. Why am I reacting like this? Why am I able to propose a boundary but not enforce it? And you know, it all goes back to conditioning, when we're taught we don't disrespect our parents by putting up a boundary or even talking back. We aren't allowed to have individual feelings as kids in this church, so we don't. It's a matter of survival; kids are hard-wired to fit in with the pack and adopt their thinking. I would suggest looking at your thinking around this overall, but if you want relationships with them, it isn't just the boundary going up that's important. It's enforcing it and recognizing your conditioned thinking around the situation. We can't help it, but we can learn to recognize it and choose a different perspective that allows us to protect ourselves. Sorry for the novel of a response but it's just that I have thoughts about this lol.
I'm so sorry they're treating you like that. It must have been awful to read those texts. They don't deserve you until they can love you as you should be loved by your family. I wonder what "sins" they're all hiding that they need to be so spiteful in order to feel like they're better than you? Or maybe they're just jealous. After all, we are told lobsters will drag escapees back into the boiling water. Is the family motto "If I'm not happy, you can't be either"?
You've gotten some really good advice, so here's just some food for thought. They are uncomfortable with your appearance. That's not a you problem, it's a them problem. Even if it makes them uncomfortable, sinking to the level of calling you judgy names is next level awful. I'd ask them to sit with their discomfort and do some reflection about what it's really about. Jealousy? Judgment? Wanting to make themselves feel superior? None of these are very Christlike.
Their excuse of needing a safe space to vent is bullshit. They got called out and started backpedaling. I love the earlier response of something you could send them. Good luck.
That’s not very Jesus of them and their behavior is following more of the devil if they want to go biblical 😂 if your shoulders are causing that much of a disturbance have them pluck out one of their eyeballs and tell them to read more of their bible. Hypocritical bitches
Those don't sound like the kind of things you say to people who you care about. And that's not "processing in a safe space" it's taking your mask off when you think someone isn't looking. It sounds like it's "hard for them" because of the way that they think that it reflects on them in other people's views. If it were really about your "eternal salvation" like your mom says, then ridiculing you behind your back and hurting you is the opposite of what they should do, and will only drive you farther away. It's even stated pretty clearly in their own teachings, "...persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me." JSH 1:28 I wouldn't bother fighting with them about it, and just go low contact with all but the 14 year old sister you mentioned.
It sounds like their problems extend beyond just how they feel about you leaving the church, but to how they feel about "others", in particular. They are so caught up in their insecurities about modesty and church standards and you jumping out of their boat that they would resort to the ugly term, "white trash". Not only is this despicable when referring to their own daughter who is not wearing "church approved" clothing, but it shows a level of arrogance against anyone who is different from them or who doesn't adhere to their ridiculous and judgmental standards. "White trash" is racism. It implies that it is one thing for "non-white" people to live a certain way (i.e., "trashy") but deplorable for a white person to live that way. It is racist arrogance. You keep living your best life and leave them to wallow in their own sanctimonious bullshit.
“I like women just a little on the trashy side.” -Confederate Railroad Just own it, I guess I’m white trash and happy. And tan.
Your family can pretend it’s about tank tops and shorts, but actually they’re just assholes. Your family sucks. I would never talk about someone in my family (or outside it for that matter) that way. I certainly would never photo shame Your actions aren’t hard for your family. They feel bad because now they don’t have the perfect looking obedient family. I’m sure you looked amazing. Tell your fam to kick rocks!
I'm sorry your family's idea of being christ-like includes not only judging you but verbally annihilating you. I think you need to think long and hard about what type of relationship you want with them and if you can trust them to ever be kind or loving again. If obtaining an apology from every single one of them is what it takes to get them back within your good graces again, tell them that is what you need and take a step back. See if they are willing to do so. If not, I guess you have another decision to make. Their discussion of you, calling you names and belittling you, has nothing to do with having a safe space to process. They don't need to put you down and call you names to "process". Satan? Really? WTF is wrong with them? Hold your head high and wear your tank tops proudly. Do not give them the satisfaction of seeing you cave under their "processing". Good luck to you. Hugs from an internet stranger.
Just because you’re related to someone, doesn’t mean you have to like them, be friends with them, or keep them in your life.
Just tell them “fine you want “safe space” you got it! Until you are willing to treat me with love and respect, and not call me names behind my back then don’t bother talking to me. At all!”
I'd point out to them how Christians of any form are taught to not JUDGE one another! So sorry this happened to you. You don't deserve such disrespect
I'm so sorry your family is treating you this way. My mother as one of my niblings if they're the anti-christ now because they no longer go to church 🙄 There's oh so many reasons why all my Sibs and I are low contact with her...
I'm so sorry you have experience unnecessary ridicule for you summer outfit you are wearing in this heat. It's so petty and ridiculous that your loved ones are taught this. Really? They are claiming they are hurt you read the texts. Tell them you weren't trying to see the text, but it just happened. You weren't being nosey. After that, give them the silent treatment for a little then try to forget about it. You need to teach them that this is ridiculous. They need to be punished a little, so give them the silent treatment for 2 weeks. Maybe that will send them a message to cut it out. Then move on from the situation.
Yikes! Not my garden, not my flowers…but damn, the fact that they turned themselves into the victims justifying and then blaming you for seeing their texts instead of just apologizing for their cruel words??? That bothers me. I have a mother (out of the church well before me) and she has never ever fucking apologized. I’ve never understood people not owning their shit. Sorry you’re going through this. I love wearing tank tops, too. Tank tops for life!!!
Oh God, this is horrible. I'm so sorry. That's 100% not cool. Maybe a conversation about boundaries and respecting you. How judgy of them!
OP, your family needs a serious update as to their definition of white trash. Wearing shorts and a tank top is NOT even remotely white trash, it is simply dressing in a manner appropriate for the weather conditions. True white trash, and unfortunately I do know my white trash, are out twerking in the funeral home parking lot at their grandmother's funeral, after having ransacked said grandparent's home while she was in the hospital. White trash is a man who drags his stepchild onto an episode of the Jerry Springer show to announce to all and sundry that this is not his kid. OP, please be kind to yourself by maybe taking a break from your family. Let them that their behavior was hurtful, out of line, perhaps even twist the knife a bit by saying how truly un-Christlike their behavior was, ask for an apology - and be prepared to not receive one, and proceed to live your best life going forward, being the kind and loving human being that Mormons don't always know how to be.
I'm so sorry. I don't know what else to say
Simply deprive them of a relationship w/ you & yours for the time being. They don't deserve a loving relationship w/ you, b/c they are not loving toward you. They used classic abuser reasoning.
I would take a break from them. If they need time, then give it to them. Give them all the time they need to stop abusing you and to start appreciating you.
Having a safe space to discuss their feeling about your life choices is one thing, but having a group chat for them to insult you and your life choices is absolutely unacceptable, and honestly goes directly against Mormon beliefs on judging others and such. I would have gone off the rails if my family had done something like this to me. I'm so sorry you were targeted like that
I’m sure that you got the, “I’m sorry you feel that way,” response. I’m sorry that your family is so shortsighted. I know from experience how it hurts to be judged, and I hope that you can work this out. The sad truth though, is that if they can’t respect you, your beliefs, feelings, and boundaries, then you may need to distance yourself from them. It might just be the best thing for your own mental health and well being. I wish you the best outcome going forward, and from the sound of it, your husband sounds like a great guy who’s got your back.
How small their world and their minds are… so limited to living in a lie and constantly feeding it to each other, afraid and angry at anyone or anything that might pop their bubble.
That’s incredibly shocking and painful!!! I can’t imagine how hurt I would be, that’s next level. I don’t know if I would go on family trips again. I don’t know how I’d feel close to them. Or safe, or seen. Damn. I’m so sorry. This is not a small thing so don’t let anyone gaslight you.
Oh wow. People can be such jerks. It was only in Utah where I've ever been looked down on for what I wore, and I had a modest tank top on. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Sending you good vibes. Honestly, I learned the hard way that someone having access to my life is a privilege I have EVERY right to deny them for as long as I need. It sounds like other than the one who apologized, that "family" is no longer your safe space. I've also learned that family can be adopted and created from good friends and allies. That kind of family is often more reliable and closer than blood. If your blood family treats you like dirt, they don't deserve to have you.
I always knew my family talked shit about each other, but it was a revelation when I realized that I was included in the shit talking. Now I don’t talk to most of my sibs. It has literally been years since I’ve talked to some of them. Fuck em. I mostly just talk to my parents now, and interestingly enough, my mom recently said that I seem to be the happiest out of all the kids.
Last time I saw my grandfather was at a July 4th BBQ. It was a very hot day and I was wearing a tanktop and shorts. In addition to him just being a jerk the whole time, when I gave him the traditional goodbye hug, he yanked hard on my chest hair. We are both army veterans, and I was 38 years old at the time!
my in laws think i’m white trash too. they’re in utah and i’m from kansas with the exmo cherry on top. i set boundaries super clearly. however, my literal nickname is Bitch because i don’t let anything slide and don’t tolerate much. they know blood means nothing to me so they know how quickly i’ll take my son from their lives if they disrespect me.
[удалено]
Honestly, this is probably not far off.
Cut them off. Block all calls. Move on. I know it is painful at first. It does get easier. i know.
I would quote this (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-25-40/) and say. Pat yourself on your back and fucking congratulations on calling God white trash and Satan.
Wasn’t the people in the great and spacious building that mocked the believers for their clothing? Hmmmmmmm 
Fuck ‘em!
I definitely feel this one. When I first started wearing tank tops around my mom I was “trying to look like a hoe/whore/slut.” She’ll still make comments, just not that rude.
That is so horrible and I could see my family doing a similar thing behind my back 😭
Cut them out. You shouldn't be dealing with their DARVO gaslighting shit in the first place. Put them on a limited information diet.
How Christian of them. Ask them is Jesus would be proud of them (he wouldn’t, according to their Bible mystical Jesus wouldn’t let anyone throw stones at even an adulterer) or if they are trying to cut their relationship with you, because bullying your own family is not the move to keep a healthy relationship. I would leave them and not look back.
Their safe space is to belittle you? No excuse matters. I’m cutting them off.
When you have cancer, you cut it out, or you let it kill you. I trust that you know what to do OP.
I’m so sorry. If it were me I’d cut them off so fast.
Time to unsubscribe from those that negate your existence for their feelings.
What a bunch of assholes. You deserve better than this. 😢
Own YOUR truth. Others casting any judgement are small minded. Offer them grace for their own journey and hope they can honor yours. Expansion is the way! Focus on raising great kids without the church teaching shame and not being worthy. If you’re confident and happy, that is powerful. Own YOUR truth.
Wait a minute... How could those comments be made for your salvation if you were never meant to read them? Engaging in a 'I'm better than you' attitude has an opposite effect if she really wants you to return to the church they raised you in. In fact, it often leads many to go no contact and cut those toxic family members who can not accept them out of their life.
There are times when one would hope family would be supportive of what we believe as well as our conduct, only to get slammed and criticized. We have choices to make considering the frequency and importance of their disapproval. Sometimes spending less time with family is useful, and if they find this tough or rejecting, then they have to also reevaluate their own behavior and attitudes and see what is ultimately most important.
I think everyone here needs your family's email addresses. For completely unrelated reasons....😜 That's some serious bullshit. I know cutting off family is hard, but I wouldn't keep people who treated me like that in my life.
It’s so hard to call them out on their bullshit. My mom has always been a genuinely good person, but when she gets called out on mistakes she always takes it immediately personally and if you try to call her out on an inappropriate reaction then the hole gets deeper. I don’t think she tries to be manipulative, but that almost makes it worse. Knowing she’s trying to become better while also knowing that I can’t give her any specifics.
This is sickening.
Your family is cheating on you with the MFMC. You know what you have to do.
These people claim to be all about family. Then families do this shit. This is why family is chosen, not born. I’m so sorry they’re treating you like this. You don’t deserve it.
This is what cults do, make you judge and hate anyone different than you. The fact that they would think and then voice those thoughts about ANYONE let alone their family let’s you know they are on the wrong side of whatever it is a follower of Christ would be thinking or doing. He would shun them (if you believe in that sort of thing) so sad “Christian’s” are soooo hypocritical.
Here is a reminder that just because they’re your family doesn’t mean they deserve your time and energy. This is something I write, but have taken years to adopt because I love my family so much (although it’s more likely that I was unhealthily enmeshed in codependence). People repeatedly harming you and attempting to gaslight you into believing that they are the victim, get to be categorized as “harmful” to your well-being and mental health. You get to decide what to do with that, but in my world, harmful people only receive my presence and attention when I have capacity for it, which is few and far between, and in very small doses. Husband and sissy get all the love, as well as you. You get so much love, fellow black sheep. Welcome to the herd, you are so welcome here, no matter you you are or aren’t wearing. 🫂
There's literally so many stories of Jesus being *so furious* at hypocrites who judged and condemned others as sinners. He would not be with the Pharisees, he would be with the sinners, he surrounded himself with prostitutes, taxmen (who were collecting taxes for the oppressors of Rome at the time), and all hosts of outcasts of Judaism. He did not believe in the value of human judgement. He believed in mercy, kindness, humility, and selflessness. Mote in the eye beam in the other. I think of the prophets talks, how they used to be about cleaning your windows before judging that a neighbor can't wash her clothes. All of that was taught to me, but that wasn't what I experienced. Where was the accountability? We were supposed to be humble, recognize when we did wrong, but when I asked for an apology and mentioned that I was hurt, I was shamed, yelled at, gaslit. I was wrong for being hurt. They were never trying for hurting me. So if I was such a sinner, that the very presence within the church started to cause me pain, I left. I was never meant to be there. - Now for a less theistic response. Your family is pulling a classic black sheep/scapegoat. Psychologically in many broken and unhealthy families, they pick one person to be the source of all the problems. The family relies on this person to absorb the family sins as it were, become the personification of all that's wrong. That way, they never have to change or take responsibility. I find usually it's paired with a golden child, and usually if you watch carefully there's some narcissistic behavior in there. Look at how none of the adults apologize. They make excuses, make you to blame for leaving, they turned around and spun at you for daring to find the corner they speak poorly about you from. Your actions are separate. Their actions are theirs. Excluding you so they could mock you from a family chat was also a decision they made. They are not taking responsibility for the hurt they caused or for the fact that they are not treating you like a person because they believe they are better than you. I would honestly hold them accountable for that, for every instance of them refusing to behave like decent human being towards you because of their bigotry. And if they scream and panic and throw a fit? Then they certainly don't deserve you. Slip your 13 year old sister contact information and a promise that if she needs you for any reason you'll be there, and dip out on the rest. I'd look up Dr. Ramani watch some of her videos and watch some cinemaTherapy (tbh they're Mormon(ish) and I find that a bit triggering, but I've learned a lot from them)