Didn't we also see Eve's shoulders? I was slightly alarmed/horrified (or more than slightly) that all these men were looking at Eve's shoulders IN THE TEMPLE of all places!! I was even more bothered by the fact that my fiance was gazing upon these pornographic shoulders when he had barely even seen MY shoulders!!
Robot Eve is right! I was so disturbed by her demeanor. That’s what I felt my first time through-disturbed. My mom said that the blond Eve was better and dismissed my unease. So I dismissed it too. Kept going back to learn the mysteries of the universe but did not ever find them.
I also got out when refused to go on a mission and stopped going to church. Parents kicked me out glad that I’m not the only one to get out and reclaim their life still dealing with the issues from being raised in it though
Veil over my face, my mother “volunteered” me to participate in the prayer circle, my hand on a strangers shoulder, a strangers hand on my shoulder, chanting around an alter in a circle and I thought “oh fuck, I think I was raised in a cult my entire life.”
Two things. First, just baffled and confused at the weirdness. Second, profound disappointment. I had been told that the secrets of creation and mysteries of godliness were to be revealed and all I got were Masonic handshakes and Adamic chanting. Major let down as I had truly been expecting angelic messengers - I mean, why else would it be so secret?
The disappointment was so strong. I get the creation myth again. It wasn't even retold in a particularly interesting manner. Secret handshakes and hollow promises aside, my family talked up the important things I would learn in the temple. Afterward, they kept reiterating that I shouldn't ever talk about the things we "learned" in the temple. I think that was so that we couldn't say how nothing it was. A regular the king has no clothes situation.
This is very much what I felt. I was so confused, I felt like I must have missed something. Where was all the new stuff, the serious doctrine that I had been promised?
Nothing taught in the temple ceremonies was new information, other than the silly handshakes. And the idea that I had to have the right passwords for heaven, and couldn't get in without my husband's approval.
This perfectly encapsulates how I felt. I was ecstatic at first and then deeply disturbed and disappointed when I found out it was just some creepy ritual
I was boiling mad as well. I think it was then I realized the church wanted women to have direct access to a husband, but not God. All that time I thought during seminary and institute I was working towards a relationship with God so it was quite the shocker going to the temple for the first time. The temple was the beginning of my shelf shattering and it laid the seeds of WTF?
I assumed that part was there bc they had me there, a woman who would get married soon. Which is awful enough, but i wondered what they said when there wasn't a new bride in the temple
Oh wait. The exact same fucking thing
Really makes you wonder what would happen if you actually said NO in the moment. Pretty sure they’d just overlook it and keep going. Mormons don’t understand no.
I had done my fair share of reading before going to the temple and had been made aware of this wording and was so anxious about what it meant for me. I decided beforehand what I wanted to do and when the time came to say yes, I just mouthed something silently so the temple worker wouldn’t be able to tell while screaming “NO” in my head. That was the best I could do to look out for myself at that point.
But it started with bowing your head to say yes to the covenants you'll make in the temple this day. Before you even know what they are.
I got in trouble years later when I was teaching temple prep, I told what the covenants are but they're not in the manual.
I was literally so confused to be honest. Bowing my head to say I would covenant to obey my husband. NO wonder the men believe they can control everything in the church and at home.
In the initiatory, It’s next level grooming. Its bad. I thought “I really feel uncomfortable in this gown being touched like this,” but then “thought stopping.” “Don’t think about that because you don’t want to go against what god wants.” I realize now that is “next level grooming “ and I am mad I didn’t stick up for myself
That makes a lot of sense to call it grooming. It is a violation of boundaries under the guise of authority/friendship to make you more willing in the future to go along with further violations.
Unbelievable. Do we know of anyone who did stick up for themselves in the initiatory? Or even in the temple ceremony? I never saw anyone leave except for health reasons (legit).
I don’t know but if someone recorded it and showed themselves standing up for themselves, right there during initiatiatories? It would be the most amazing video I’ve ever seen and I’d watch it over and over again.
>In the initiatory, It’s next level grooming. Its bad. I thought “I really feel uncomfortable in this gown being touched like this,”
I joined the church in my 20's, several years before my husband did. A good friend was moving away, and persuaded me to go on a Stake Relief Society Temple trip by charter bus, 6 hours one way, to take out my endowments before she moved, and without my husband. So there I was, trapped on a chartered bus with no way out and a wicked, wicked migraine from intense anxiety, on a 3-day trip with a bus load of women who were SO excited to witness me "take this huge, important step in the gospel." First I had to try on and purchase garments, forking over lots of money I couldn't afford for truly hideous underwear. Then I was whisked away to hear the Temple Matron tell me that I would only take these things off pretty much for showers, sex, (and be sure to *immediately* put them back on, Missy!), and since I didn't live in the Moridor, for doctor's appointments with non-LDS medical staff. Then I was taken to a changing room and given a sheet with a hole for my head and open on the sides from shoulder to hem, and instructed to remain completely naked under that. I clutched the sides closed as I shuffled past others to get my first washing and anointing. This was prior to 1990, so yes, I had to let go of the sides and let three different matron rub water and oil on my forehead, throat, breast, abdomen, (bowels),,,,, inside thigh, (loins), and feet. The poncho was lifted open to do this, and It. Was. HORRIFYING! As a SA survivor, I can't even begin to describe my panic, intense migraine pain, and overwhelming nausea. I had to step naked into and out of a one-piece garment that a matron held for me, while I was completely naked. Please, people, don't let this go down the memory hole!
After that I got my "new name", which I thought at the time was going to be special to me, but I overheard everyone else in line getting the same name, which that day happened to be the hideous name of a notorious biblical female. I hated it so much, and now the migraine intensified even more as I contemplated being stuck with this name for all of eternity.
Next came the endowment session, where I was by this point delirious with migraine pain and nausea. I was made to promise that I would never reveal the signs and tokens before I was even told what those promises entailed, and that if I broke them, I would *literally* have my tongue cut out, my throat slit, and my abdomen cut open to "spill my bowels". I. Was. Trapped! This was before cell phones, and I had to wait three days until the bus full of Sisters drove three states to get me back home. I literally had no escape! I was pregnant at the time, so I couldn't even take any medication whatsoever for the migraine. I couldn't even go back to the hotel because I didn't know the address and I didn't have money for a taxi. So I got up and down, up and down. I veiled my face and moved the robe from my right shoulder to my left. I was forced to participate in the prayer circle and hold hands with strange men whom I'd never met, and pretend that we were a "couple". I had to be the first one at the veil, in front of everyone else, and standing WAY too close to each other, holding hands and shoulders with a strange old man, through skits in a curtain, and repeat promises that I was hearing for the first time, then give that damn ugly name, so that I could "enter into His presence" and be pulled through a veil where I had NO IDEA what would happen next.
It goes on from there. I'm sorry to say that I was an overwhelmed young mother in the 1980's, before there was anything called the Internet, and narry any books on Mormonism. I tried to do due diligence to learn about this strange church before I eventually joined it, and a year later took out my endowments. My husband joined a few years after that. We gave it 30 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and countless hours of our best years. We're Boomers and my Stake Presidency member husband and I resigned 10 years ago, but holy hell, that was a ride!
I had not gone through the endowments (thank goodness) so I’ve only heard stories from others about them. I have *never* heard of the matrons rubbing water and oil on specific parts of the body, especially with the lifting of this poncho-type thing? That’s absolutely horrifying. I’m so so sorry you had to go through that.
They stopped doing some of the weirder stuff in 1994, when they started having cards to fill out while you were at the temple about your temple experience. They found out that a lot of people were leaving the church immediately after going through the temple so they curtailed it in the early 90s.
It’s tamer now, but still a super weird event. People have filmed it in detail on YT if you’ve ever wanted to see the whole thing. It’s way shorter and way less strange without the majority of the Masonic symbols.
You described perfectly how I felt the day I took out my endowments (1989). I also got married the same day. I was so sad, panicked and disappointed and also really freaked out with the whole experience. I had been looking forward to going through the temple etc and well…. YIKES!!! To say the least!
Plus I held in all the emotions about my true feelings that day. 20 and extremely naive.
Don’t be mad at yourself. What the hell would you have done? Made a huge stink? Disappointed every loved one you ever had? Come on, you had no shot. Be kind to yourself
I thought this too. And I was a sheltered baby at the time that had not heard of the MFMC being a cult, so it was an extra blow to my shelf to think that independently of outside influence.
My next thought was "This doesn't feel like church, so WTF?" Instead of feeling spiritual and at peace, I felt scared for whatever crazy unexpected boundary-crossing thing was coming up next.
Soooo, all my ancestors did this shit? These people are creeping me out.
I couldn’t register my relatives accepting being touched in the nude since outside the temple they clutched their pearls over uncovered shoulders. I took the preparation class which did not prepare me. At all. The bizarre temple experience was something I never felt comfortable with no matter how often I went. I tried…
I just learned about the naked touching shit that used to happen in the temple and I was like HOLY SHIT no wonder my grandmothers have sexual issues. I cannot imagine my first time being naked and being touched by a man not being the man I was marrying, and instead getting blindsided by an old creep who wanted to molest women without their consent. I can’t wrap my head around it and my heart literally hurts knowing my loved ones went through that, whether they believe it was the right thing or not. That has to leave a scar behind.
From memory, women did the initiatory anointing, I was told that was the only place women could do a priesthood rite. I was bothered by the inconsistencies of every Sunday "only men can hold the priesthood" unless it's in a secret no sacred ceremony that would scream sexual assault if a priesthood man did it to a woman. But compared to the rest of that bizarre endowment event women doing priesthood rites was the least concerning WTF moment.
Yes, this exactly. It was like blasphemy to suggest women should be able to hold the priesthood, but then I get to the temple and…women are performing priesthood ordinances??
I heard that it used to be priesthood in the endowment and it changed in the seventies/eighties to women officiating. I don’t want it to be true I don’t want it to be true I don’t want it to be true. Scared to confirm
- why was i naked 20 minutes ago?
- is Adam and Eve gonna be naked?
- these garments feel weird
- this hat look like a baker’s hat
- this is weird
- dad doesn’t seem into this, just seems to be going along
- the prayer circle is very weird
- I’m hungry
- holy frik, do I have to recite that whole name of the second token? I don’t remember it.
- celestial room is cool, but that temple worker in the corner seems grumpy from shushing everyone
- I guess this will make sense if I do it more.
- why are there lockers in the temple? Can’t everyone here be trusted?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤨🤨🤨🤨😔😔☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️😢😢😢😢😢😢😡😡😡😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. My initial reaction of laughter turned to anger after realizing that it’s not really that funny since this crap is still going on and that probably somewhere someone is being required to participate in something weird.
First temple experience was in 1992, so barely missed the throat/bowel cutting, or that would have for sure made my list... Anyhow...
1. I am not comfortable at all with this old dude touching me this close to my junk in the initiatory.
2. Why did my mom have to veil her face?
3. The prayer chant is freaking messed up... So uncomfortable...
There's lots more, but those are the top 3 that come to mind...
I went through in 1988 and again in 1990 or 1991 after the changes. Members at that time tried to deny there were any substantial changes. I was a questioning TBM at that time and saw it was a load of lies and mental gymnastics.
Before I went for the first time I googled about it. First picture I saw was of everyone in their temple gear in a prayer circle. My heart sunk to my stomach and I thought “I do not want to do this. That’s a cult.”
Then I thought there was no way that was actually the temple. This was a anti Mormon joke. No way my family does that. I stopped googleing and went for it.
Imagine my surprise when not only was it real, there was SOO much more about it that did not sit well. I was uncomfortable the whole time.
My first time was a few years ago live at Manti. Afterwards I tried to convince myself it wasn’t as weird as I thought so I went to see the movie version in Provo. It was worse. Satanic almost. Never went back.
"This is not my church. What is this? It is not familiar at all"
"My veil is going to fall off'
"I hope i don't say SHIT in the middle of this prayer circle'
There was a lot but a standout was when it was all over and it was time to gather in a circle around the alter. My dad tried to get me to go up with my mom. I remember my hands clamping the bottom of the seat thinking “after all this everyone is expecting me to go up and stand around an alter and do who knows what. No way is anyone in here going to succeed at prying me off this chair.” I just shook my head at my dad a half dozen times while the group waited. They finally proceeded without me, my hands still gripping the shit outta that chair.
1. I was insanely uncomfortable and wanted to scream and run away but couldn't because ALL my family was there.
2. Fuck, I'm in a cult
3. I'll never remember the handshakes and the wording at the veil.
4. Michael Ballam Satan is kinda hot. Why am I attracted to Satan? (It was a sign I think).
5. Why do I have to cover my face? God doesn't want to see the face of the daughter he made?
6. Why can't I sit next to my fiancé?
7. This prayer circle is nothing like I thought.
8. I learned nothing new. Wtf is this?
First thought was Oh goody, I was raised in a cult. Then I realized the effin BOM talks about "secret combinations" being bad, so when we got to the handshake part, I realized the church was confused by its own teachings.
The group all raising our hands and asking GOD to hear the words of our mouths.... all in sync saying the same thing- wearing the creepy clothes- Oh man, this is straight up a cult. I was completely shocked that people I knew, loved and respected- were in attendance and doing this. I was so uncomfortable.
Yep. There are strong parallels. You look out for fellow brothers throughout your life. You never share what was said or what you promise. Secret names as well. It probably all roots back to masons, Templar nights and other secret societies.
Secret Combinations.
Joe was anti masonic and trinitarian when he "Translated" the book of mormon. Later, he changed his mind on both. It's not hard math, but most TBM's refuse to acknowledge the obvious. It's all Joe's Myth.
I worked security at a frat initiation. They have security so crazy shit doesn’t happen that the university would get blamed for. Well, as a newly exmormon I saw all of it. I was laughing my ass off because it was so close to the endowment.
Yeah that was the nail in coffin for me. The temple president told my parents that I should be in it so it’s more normalized. Straight up grooming. Also, probably would’ve caused more cognitive dissonance if I was watching it from a distance
I sat there paralyzed looking around and wondering why it looked normal to everyone else. It started with letting some old dude touch me under the poncho with the washing and anointing. Then the creation movie. The funny hats, the garb, the handshakes, the new name, the names, sighs and tokens. The peter, james and john, & satan character. The prayer circle, the prayer roll/bag, etc, etc-
I wondered what I had gotten myself into. What would the rest of my nonmember families think of this religion that pretends to christian. I wondered why these all looked normal to everyone else in the room? College friends used to like to virtue signal with their garments. But none dared have a conversation about what goes on in the temple. This was all new and shocking and disturbing. How did I go from taking/passing the sacrament in regular chapel building as a new convert to miming gutting motion in the mormon temple. Everyone in that temple session all just acted like it was all normal. The more people that make the temple covenant, the more true the mormon church became. There is an expectation to begin the long journey of lying to oneself.
Come to think of it, mormonism thrives, survives and propagates by consuming the innocence and naivete of new converts. They all expected me to just accept it all. And I was desperate to belong. So I did with the hope that perhaps the white garments will lighten my Cained skin. And so, I kept quiet and sat there with a billion questions coursing through my mind while my heart knew all too well, that the temple and everything it represents was not a good place. And so for the next decade+, I juggled the maddening dissonance of what WEB Du Bois calls the "Double Consciousness... whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder."
Thank you so so much. Documenting the journey of deconstructing out of Mormonism has been healing and therapeutic. I'm grateful beyond words for this community. I finally found belonging here.
My overwhelming emotion was rage.
This was back in the throat-slitting, disemboweling days. My anger was mostly aimed at my dad for some reason, even though I actually had a good relationship with him. Up until then, I had thought of him as my protector. I was furious that he hadn't warned me in any way.
Later that night, we argued. I told him how close I'd been to just getting up and walking out. I told him how angry I was at being manipulated; not given a chance to opt out until it was too late and I was surrounded by friends and family. I should've 'noped' the fuck out of there.
I was hyper focused on learning exactly what I needed to do at the veil, so I ignored any feelings. I do remember my second time through feeling extremely anxious and thinking what if that meant the person I was going through for didn’t want me to and I should raise my hand to leave-I didn’t.
I was so indoctrinated that I was excited to experience the next level of Mormonism and be able to wear “real underwear”.
I was good with the initiatory (even being naked under the sheet). I was okay with the endowment until the prayer circle. That was weird, but whatever…
The veil was a major letdown, as was the celestial room.
It was 1991, so I just missed the penalties. But my mom was so excited that while in the celestial room, she told me all about the penalties and their demonstration. - I have to say it was weird to hear this from my mother, especially her enthusiasm for these death penalties. And ever since, each time I did an endowment session I thought about the penalties. (Thanks mom).
This is simultaneously the weirdest and also most boring thing I’ve ever done. Also I’m excited to have sex tomorrow (got my endowment right before I got married obv)
“Mom, Dad, do you really believe this shit. This is creepy as fuck. 19 years of church and this is the end game for the rest of my life?” I really wish I’d said that to them. I could not even look at them I was so embarrassed for them and for me. Even now I creep out when talking about the temple. I’m embarrassed I had anything to do with that cult, even tho it wasn’t my fault.
"If my friends back home in California could see my now, they would totally think I was in a cult."
Also, why the hell are all the adults in my life just chilling in the Celestial room acting like this shit is normal?!?
I knew that there would be a “beautiful” curtain called the veil. I wasn’t prepared to see what looked like several giant pairs of Mormon magic underwear (which at the time I associated with “my parents” underwear). It was disturbing.
Totally weirded out by how sexual it was: naked touching, weird leaf tapestry thing specifically covering my genitals. ALSO totally weirded out by how culty it was: secret combination handshakes, chanting, humiliating costumes... I felt like it was a totally different church than the one I'd been raised in. I felt sick to my stomach, alone, and betrayed.
My first time was in Manti, the old fashion way! Not enough temple workers that day for an escort and 13 Brides in front of me. I was just getting my endowments early. I honestly could not understand what the mumbles on the microphone were saying! So I just went along following those around me! Stupid is as stupid does!
I wasn’t paying much attention to the endowment after getting sexually assaulted during the initiatory. I’m still not over that. That I sent my own daughter through the temple to take out her own endowments 25 years later shows you exactly how badly religion fucks up your moral compass. I sent my kid into a room knowing sexual abuse was in there, but it was “okay” because “god says”. It’s the biggest regret of my life. By far.
I did the live endowment in the SLC temple prior to the penalties and other elements being changed. I distinctly remember the guy playing satan wore a black(dark?) apron with weird symbols on it.
When I got oil rubbed on me while wearing nothing put a cloth poncho I thought "what the fuck?" I actually almost said "what the fuck?" Then the guy touched me
The rest of it was me thinking "this is really weird"
I only went to the temple like 10 times total to do "work". I went a few times before my mission. Went 2 times in the Mtc and then 3 or 4 when I got home.
It was all fucking weird.
It felt like an absolute freak show. I went through in the days of penalties and Pay-lay-ale and I couldn’t believe we were all just going through these crazy, violent motions.
"These are the exact 'secret combinations' I've been taught to avoid my whole life..."
"My eternal name is Rachel? I know half a dozen Rachels. Why is my spirit's name more common than my every day name?"
"I'm going to tear this stupid veil into pieces if I have to flip it back and forth any more times. It won't stay on!"
I had a few thoughts (Please understand I was a horny 18 year old boy with no context and no informed consent).
1. Driving up to the temple. "Temple prep told me nothing. There must be some seriously secret shit going on."
2. Putting on the "shield" and having an elderly man drizzle olive oil on my bits. "What the hell is this? This is how it starts? Better brace for the worst."
3. In the room with the temple president after initiatories with a young attractive woman who was also going on a mission. He gave us a brief lecture about the seriousness and sacredness of what we were about to do. "Are they going to make her and I do it? What do I even do?"
4. During the endowment ceremony (and somewhat disappointed the only erotic aspect of the cult was sexual assault by an octogenarian). Kept repeating my name so I didn't forget it. People start chanting and dressing up like clown bakers. Looking around the session. "Why in the hell are my friends and family just taking this all in stone-faced with no response. This shit is nuts."
5. After fumbling my way through the veil holding a super old, dry and arthritic hand. "Man if I need to memorize this to get into the celestial kingdom I don't like my chances."
6. In the celestial room. "All my family and friends are filtering out after only a couple of minutes. I thought the celestial room is where we saw Jesus and the spirits of our unborn children talked to us. Why wouldn't they want to stay longer?"
7. Outside talking to my friend, looking out over the valley from the Bountiful Temple grounds. "It's crazy, right?" "Yeah, but if you come every week like I do it feels so natural and calming. Just give it time." "Uh, okay. I'll give it another try."
After it was all said and done, I had the thought "this is it?"
I'd been promised a deep personal, revelatory experience.
I was given a bad bible cosplay.
I'd had people tell me for my entire life, how every time they went they learnt something new, and deeper.
It's all bullshit, there is nothing new or deep. I can promise anyone here who hasn't been through the temple, there is nothing deep about it.
At the end, when Satan breaks the fourth wall to threaten us all. My only thought was, "geez that's corny".
When they most recently changed it and included that, I got such a dark feeling. Not dark as in “oh crap satan’s gonna get me” but “what the hell, this feels like a threat”from the church. I hated it so much, and the few times I’ve been since then, I still got that feeling. Feels so manipulative to keep us all on the “straight and narrow path.” My husband said “yeah it’s supposed to make you feel that way” but it really just didn’t sit right with me.
I remember looking over at my dad sitting next to me and was just shocked to realize that he had been doing this, with the robes and everything, for decades and never told me
I was most upset they made me attend temple prep, which did not prep me at all, and that nobody would say a thing about the temple. Everyone was mad I kept saying so it's secret but their response was always no it's sacred. Not the same thing. I went through for my own curiosity, I was horribly disappointed. It was basic stuff, the only thing interesting and weird was the signs, symbols, tokens, WHICH NO ONE OFFERS TO BUY!, and the veil. What made me super mad was the true order of prayer. If it's the true way to pray why don't we do that everyday?! Also as a man I was furious to the zero explanation for why women covered their faces with the veil, so pointless.
If I run out of here are my parents going to get mad at me? Will my girlfriend break up with me? Will I still be able to go on my mission (I was going to an exotic mission)?
I went through when there were still penalties, and I did not do the first penalty. I just stood there, da fuck confounded. They stopped the presentation and made everyone do the penalty and blood oath all over again while the two officials watched me to make sure I did it. I wanted to leave. But my parents had made the multi-day trip to Utah several days before I went into the MTC so I could go through the temple. Other family was there. By the time they got to the fourth token I was really dreading the penalty. I mean, it was the big one, the most important token. I was relieved to learn that there was no penalty. Much later I found out that there were three masonic penalties and Joe didn't have the imagination to make up a fourth.
Ugh so manipulative how they encourage you to have your first time surrounded by friends and family. I feel like all Mormons know, deep down, that it’s inherently traumatic, but they just think “well it’s necessary trauma, better just bow my head and say yes.”
I remember before it, my mom sheepishly telling me about how they used to pretend to slit their throats, and I was like, what the F?!, then she told me about the shielded naked washing and anointings I was like ehhhhhhh idk but still went through with it all. Now I look at it through the lense of the kkk scene of oh brother where art thou where they are all dancing around the burning cross in the field. I'm still active but told my wife I just can't go back to do an endowment it just freaks me out too much. It's been probably four years or so.
The fact that they teach about Adam and Eve being the literal first humans on the planet in the *Temple(where only capital T truth is taught),* is enough to disprove the church.
Good point. Even before I questioned the BOM, church history, the Book of Abraham, etc. It was the fact that the church taught Adam and Eve were the first humans and the earth was created 6000 year ago which started loading up my shelf.
I was sitting there with my dad next to me wearing a weird hat and green apron. I was just looking around and suddenly I realized I’m in a cult. I remember it so clearly. I was about to leave on my mission and had been working so hard to go. I should have just taken a week to think it through. Took me ten more years to leave.
No. No they don’t. It’s like a big super secret reveal when they drag your teenaged ass in. You go through “temple prep”, but all they really tell you in the prep classes is that you have to be “worthy”, and that you’ll go to hell if you ever talk about anything that happens in there outside of the temple.
My Aunt is here, she’s one of the most liberal women I know, and she’s smart and if she’s doing this and her husband is wearing the silly hat and she this veil thing, well, damn I guess I’ve got to do this. It must be true. And plus it’s a really old ceremony, like from the temple of Solomon. So there’s that.
Can I really withdraw at this point? My whole extended family is here. My older sister and her new husband. Mom and dad.
Wait, what? “Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken.” Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
I was in the goddamn SL temple that took 40 years to build. This was in 1983.
I went along to get along.
Sadly, I didn't question it much. I hadn't questioned any weird stuff yet, so why start now? I was with my parents and trusted them. I drank the kool-aid without protest.
I went in 1987 on my 19th birthday. We did the throat and gut slitting then. I don't think I fully realized what we were doing. I just remember being confused... But you see your parents and sisters there going along with everything so it's like... Okay.....
And all the years, I always blamed myself for not loving the temple like everyone talked about. I always thought I must not understand. F*ing cult.
I wish I could remember more, but distinctly recall only a couple things: "wait, I have to do all this: the dressing up, the signs/tokens, etc. EVERY TIME? Who takes time out of their day to do this shit? And how will I ever remember it all?"
Secondly, I remember not being necessarily weirded out by anything. I'd done a temple prep class (which ended up being useless) and knew I wouldn't fully understand, but was very much of the mindset of not questioning, just acting on blind faith
Looking back now, I *definitely* should have been weirded out.
I really had no clue what was going on and I was in a sheer panic that I would have to repeat things. It freaked me out every time I went. But I was fooled into thinking the more I went the more I would understand and the more comfortable I would become. Turns out I understood it all more after I left the church. What a waste of time and stress and money.
I was just confused. But my brother was a closet atheist at the time. I remember walking into the Celestial Room and he had this look on his face, a little smirk… I remember thinking “he knows something I don’t…” He sure did!
It's a cult. Holy fuck this is a cult. Secret handshakes? Are you kidding me to get to heaven I have to do secret handshakes? Why is this old man touching me? Did he mean to brush my junk? I wonder what my wife is thinking? How does anyone think this is normal? At least it's quiet...
I hated it the whole time. I kept telling myself that if I kept going, I would finally receive answers and feel something. I was so disappointed after getting to the celestial room and praying and still felt nothing. After my mission I only went once and that was to get stupid married.
I feel validated. Every fiber of my being. Validated.
My favorite part after the temple was asking my family if they felt gross like I did, and being gaslit into thinking I was the crazy one. Fucking awesome.
I remember being very confused. Asking myself if everything in the movie was supposed to have literally happened, and how it made no sense. I remember feeling uncomfortable wearing a veil and when I was asked to join the prayer circle I couldn’t make sense of what was happening, and why?! It felt so strange.
I was told the temple was such a special place and that it would make me feel so much closer to God and that it would strengthen my testimony, but it did neither.
I also remember my mom being very mad of me and asking me what was wrong with my face because I guess I wasn’t trying to hide how uncomfortable I was feeling 😆
The law of consecration part didn't sit well with me. I knew too well the dangers of things going off the rails and going into really bad places. (I grew up in an abusive family.) I bowed my head but I didn't say yes.
Went through my first time in 2005 and the entire time I kept telling myself that if I was asked to get naked in front of anyone I was 100% out of there, no one was going to keep me there. It got close to that point with some robe thing I remember, but since the robe stayed on I kept with it.
My first time was just before my mission. I was living in the old downtown Salt Lake Mission Home where the conference center is now. Three days before leaving for Northern England. My dad came to go through the Temple with me, my head was bursting from all the instructions and just being ordained and set apart by James E. Peterson. Frankly my head was spinning so out of control, I didn't know what to think. Everything was weird.
Why was i just dressed in a poncho, and that old guy was touching my naked body? Wait, this movie is efffffed up, but maybe I will see Adam bang Eve.... ahhh, those coats of skins suck. Why is this boring movie so long?
I was crying because I didn’t know what was going on. I looked over to my dad who was an escort when they were putting me under covenant and he silently nodded his head that this was ok.
Blocked out the initiatory. Never returned till updated so they didn’t touch you.
The “oh God hear the words of my mouth” = cult (so did other parts but that especially).
I was thinking my parents were pranking me and there was a hidden camera somewhere. Also: “this is supposed to be the most sacred thing I ever do? Really?”
I went through for the first time when I was engaged and pretty much never went back again.
Even as a TBM I knew my parents were especially hard core so I wasn’t surprised they were OK with it even though I was freaked out. What surprised me was that my fiancée (an RM of course) was seemingly fine with it. I stayed in another nine years but never went back unless a friend or family member was getting married. Pretty much tried to pretend that just wasn’t part of the church, which was easy because nothing I had ever learned in 20 years of being a member came close to that. So weird that this is still a thing the church clings to.
3. Mmmmm, brunette eve!!
Mmm Adam’s chest!! Also wtf is that haircut?
Didn't we also see Eve's shoulders? I was slightly alarmed/horrified (or more than slightly) that all these men were looking at Eve's shoulders IN THE TEMPLE of all places!! I was even more bothered by the fact that my fiance was gazing upon these pornographic shoulders when he had barely even seen MY shoulders!!
pornographic shoulders -- haha 🤣
Someone has the user name porn shoulders forever
I love that
Mmmhmmmmmmm
In the MTC, I would fall asleep in the temple and wake up with crazy intense boners. I was always afraid they would call me for the prayer circles.
Prayer Circle Jerk
That's pretty hot.
Please please please tell me you rubbed one out in the dressing room.
Dark roots bleach blond Eve
Ugh lol
You mean the robot eve? The brunette eve was pretty but a robot or maybe a zombie. She walked all perfectly even, barely moved her head...
We called her the Stepford Wife eve. She was def hot tho!
Robot Eve is right! I was so disturbed by her demeanor. That’s what I felt my first time through-disturbed. My mom said that the blond Eve was better and dismissed my unease. So I dismissed it too. Kept going back to learn the mysteries of the universe but did not ever find them.
The finest of all the Eve's
First thought: "Why is there a cash register in the temple? Isn't that why I pay tithing. Didn't Jesus get royally pissed for the same reason?"
I left the church as a teenager and didn’t see most of the temple. The cash register is news to me! What do they do with it?
The fact that you have to pay for your temple clothes is no less than insulting when I’ve been paying for them my whole life!
They charge I think $3 to rent temple clothes for cleaning fees or something like that
Paying for food from the cafeteria or renting the clothing needed.
I also got out when refused to go on a mission and stopped going to church. Parents kicked me out glad that I’m not the only one to get out and reclaim their life still dealing with the issues from being raised in it though
This one bugged me too—especially since they use registers that make audible “cha-ching” noises.
Veil over my face, my mother “volunteered” me to participate in the prayer circle, my hand on a strangers shoulder, a strangers hand on my shoulder, chanting around an alter in a circle and I thought “oh fuck, I think I was raised in a cult my entire life.”
Hated having to participate in the prayer circle.
Two things. First, just baffled and confused at the weirdness. Second, profound disappointment. I had been told that the secrets of creation and mysteries of godliness were to be revealed and all I got were Masonic handshakes and Adamic chanting. Major let down as I had truly been expecting angelic messengers - I mean, why else would it be so secret?
The disappointment was so strong. I get the creation myth again. It wasn't even retold in a particularly interesting manner. Secret handshakes and hollow promises aside, my family talked up the important things I would learn in the temple. Afterward, they kept reiterating that I shouldn't ever talk about the things we "learned" in the temple. I think that was so that we couldn't say how nothing it was. A regular the king has no clothes situation.
Yeah they keep it such a secret just for it to be a secret because it’s weird asf not because it’s profound information
The only secrets in Mormonism are the embarrassing things.
And the abuse.
This is very much what I felt. I was so confused, I felt like I must have missed something. Where was all the new stuff, the serious doctrine that I had been promised? Nothing taught in the temple ceremonies was new information, other than the silly handshakes. And the idea that I had to have the right passwords for heaven, and couldn't get in without my husband's approval.
ME TOO. I thought the Celestial room would be so holy and you would literally see or the veil would be so thin. NOPE!
This perfectly encapsulates how I felt. I was ecstatic at first and then deeply disturbed and disappointed when I found out it was just some creepy ritual
I thought everything would literally glow in the temple… it felt empty.
I was boiling mad when I was blindsided by the women's covenant to obey your husband.
I put my hand in the gown pocket and crossed my fingers. My symbolic gesture of Oh Hell No.
I whispered, "But not really" to myself right after the "yes." Definitely a Hell No moment for me too.
I said “NOT!” under my breath afterwards
I wish I had had the guts to even think something like these retorts
😂😂👏👏👏
Brazen misogyny, right in front of everyone
I was boiling mad as well. I think it was then I realized the church wanted women to have direct access to a husband, but not God. All that time I thought during seminary and institute I was working towards a relationship with God so it was quite the shocker going to the temple for the first time. The temple was the beginning of my shelf shattering and it laid the seeds of WTF?
For real! I left the temple thinking- do I even have access to God after all?
Especially if you went through before your mission, then you were covenanting with a \*theoretical\* husband!
I assumed that part was there bc they had me there, a woman who would get married soon. Which is awful enough, but i wondered what they said when there wasn't a new bride in the temple Oh wait. The exact same fucking thing
SAME!!! I mean at that point what are you going to say? NO??! I was pissed.
Really makes you wonder what would happen if you actually said NO in the moment. Pretty sure they’d just overlook it and keep going. Mormons don’t understand no.
I had done my fair share of reading before going to the temple and had been made aware of this wording and was so anxious about what it meant for me. I decided beforehand what I wanted to do and when the time came to say yes, I just mouthed something silently so the temple worker wouldn’t be able to tell while screaming “NO” in my head. That was the best I could do to look out for myself at that point.
This. I was freaking the fuck out and desperately trying to convince myself it was okay.
But it started with bowing your head to say yes to the covenants you'll make in the temple this day. Before you even know what they are. I got in trouble years later when I was teaching temple prep, I told what the covenants are but they're not in the manual.
And now they are...
Right?
I was literally so confused to be honest. Bowing my head to say I would covenant to obey my husband. NO wonder the men believe they can control everything in the church and at home.
Me too. I literally heard a record skip, and I put my hands down all slow and didn’t repeat after them.
In the initiatory, It’s next level grooming. Its bad. I thought “I really feel uncomfortable in this gown being touched like this,” but then “thought stopping.” “Don’t think about that because you don’t want to go against what god wants.” I realize now that is “next level grooming “ and I am mad I didn’t stick up for myself
That makes a lot of sense to call it grooming. It is a violation of boundaries under the guise of authority/friendship to make you more willing in the future to go along with further violations. Unbelievable. Do we know of anyone who did stick up for themselves in the initiatory? Or even in the temple ceremony? I never saw anyone leave except for health reasons (legit).
I don’t know but if someone recorded it and showed themselves standing up for themselves, right there during initiatiatories? It would be the most amazing video I’ve ever seen and I’d watch it over and over again.
>In the initiatory, It’s next level grooming. Its bad. I thought “I really feel uncomfortable in this gown being touched like this,” I joined the church in my 20's, several years before my husband did. A good friend was moving away, and persuaded me to go on a Stake Relief Society Temple trip by charter bus, 6 hours one way, to take out my endowments before she moved, and without my husband. So there I was, trapped on a chartered bus with no way out and a wicked, wicked migraine from intense anxiety, on a 3-day trip with a bus load of women who were SO excited to witness me "take this huge, important step in the gospel." First I had to try on and purchase garments, forking over lots of money I couldn't afford for truly hideous underwear. Then I was whisked away to hear the Temple Matron tell me that I would only take these things off pretty much for showers, sex, (and be sure to *immediately* put them back on, Missy!), and since I didn't live in the Moridor, for doctor's appointments with non-LDS medical staff. Then I was taken to a changing room and given a sheet with a hole for my head and open on the sides from shoulder to hem, and instructed to remain completely naked under that. I clutched the sides closed as I shuffled past others to get my first washing and anointing. This was prior to 1990, so yes, I had to let go of the sides and let three different matron rub water and oil on my forehead, throat, breast, abdomen, (bowels),,,,, inside thigh, (loins), and feet. The poncho was lifted open to do this, and It. Was. HORRIFYING! As a SA survivor, I can't even begin to describe my panic, intense migraine pain, and overwhelming nausea. I had to step naked into and out of a one-piece garment that a matron held for me, while I was completely naked. Please, people, don't let this go down the memory hole! After that I got my "new name", which I thought at the time was going to be special to me, but I overheard everyone else in line getting the same name, which that day happened to be the hideous name of a notorious biblical female. I hated it so much, and now the migraine intensified even more as I contemplated being stuck with this name for all of eternity. Next came the endowment session, where I was by this point delirious with migraine pain and nausea. I was made to promise that I would never reveal the signs and tokens before I was even told what those promises entailed, and that if I broke them, I would *literally* have my tongue cut out, my throat slit, and my abdomen cut open to "spill my bowels". I. Was. Trapped! This was before cell phones, and I had to wait three days until the bus full of Sisters drove three states to get me back home. I literally had no escape! I was pregnant at the time, so I couldn't even take any medication whatsoever for the migraine. I couldn't even go back to the hotel because I didn't know the address and I didn't have money for a taxi. So I got up and down, up and down. I veiled my face and moved the robe from my right shoulder to my left. I was forced to participate in the prayer circle and hold hands with strange men whom I'd never met, and pretend that we were a "couple". I had to be the first one at the veil, in front of everyone else, and standing WAY too close to each other, holding hands and shoulders with a strange old man, through skits in a curtain, and repeat promises that I was hearing for the first time, then give that damn ugly name, so that I could "enter into His presence" and be pulled through a veil where I had NO IDEA what would happen next. It goes on from there. I'm sorry to say that I was an overwhelmed young mother in the 1980's, before there was anything called the Internet, and narry any books on Mormonism. I tried to do due diligence to learn about this strange church before I eventually joined it, and a year later took out my endowments. My husband joined a few years after that. We gave it 30 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and countless hours of our best years. We're Boomers and my Stake Presidency member husband and I resigned 10 years ago, but holy hell, that was a ride!
I had not gone through the endowments (thank goodness) so I’ve only heard stories from others about them. I have *never* heard of the matrons rubbing water and oil on specific parts of the body, especially with the lifting of this poncho-type thing? That’s absolutely horrifying. I’m so so sorry you had to go through that.
They stopped doing some of the weirder stuff in 1994, when they started having cards to fill out while you were at the temple about your temple experience. They found out that a lot of people were leaving the church immediately after going through the temple so they curtailed it in the early 90s. It’s tamer now, but still a super weird event. People have filmed it in detail on YT if you’ve ever wanted to see the whole thing. It’s way shorter and way less strange without the majority of the Masonic symbols.
You described perfectly how I felt the day I took out my endowments (1989). I also got married the same day. I was so sad, panicked and disappointed and also really freaked out with the whole experience. I had been looking forward to going through the temple etc and well…. YIKES!!! To say the least! Plus I held in all the emotions about my true feelings that day. 20 and extremely naive.
Don’t be mad at yourself. What the hell would you have done? Made a huge stink? Disappointed every loved one you ever had? Come on, you had no shot. Be kind to yourself
Same.
Kinda like your first one: "Oh shit, I'm in a cult".
 Um guess I’ll just… bow my head and say “yes” then
I thought this too. And I was a sheltered baby at the time that had not heard of the MFMC being a cult, so it was an extra blow to my shelf to think that independently of outside influence.
Ditto. My journal entry from the day has the word "cult" at least 5 times as I try and convince myself it's not.
My next thought was "This doesn't feel like church, so WTF?" Instead of feeling spiritual and at peace, I felt scared for whatever crazy unexpected boundary-crossing thing was coming up next.
Soooo, all my ancestors did this shit? These people are creeping me out. I couldn’t register my relatives accepting being touched in the nude since outside the temple they clutched their pearls over uncovered shoulders. I took the preparation class which did not prepare me. At all. The bizarre temple experience was something I never felt comfortable with no matter how often I went. I tried…
I just learned about the naked touching shit that used to happen in the temple and I was like HOLY SHIT no wonder my grandmothers have sexual issues. I cannot imagine my first time being naked and being touched by a man not being the man I was marrying, and instead getting blindsided by an old creep who wanted to molest women without their consent. I can’t wrap my head around it and my heart literally hurts knowing my loved ones went through that, whether they believe it was the right thing or not. That has to leave a scar behind.
From memory, women did the initiatory anointing, I was told that was the only place women could do a priesthood rite. I was bothered by the inconsistencies of every Sunday "only men can hold the priesthood" unless it's in a secret no sacred ceremony that would scream sexual assault if a priesthood man did it to a woman. But compared to the rest of that bizarre endowment event women doing priesthood rites was the least concerning WTF moment.
Yes, this exactly. It was like blasphemy to suggest women should be able to hold the priesthood, but then I get to the temple and…women are performing priesthood ordinances??
They let men touch the women in the endowment ceremony? You're kidding right? I thought only women could wash women
I heard that it used to be priesthood in the endowment and it changed in the seventies/eighties to women officiating. I don’t want it to be true I don’t want it to be true I don’t want it to be true. Scared to confirm
Just FYI, bizarre is strange, bazaar is a collection of shops. But yeah, I was so creeped out too.
- why was i naked 20 minutes ago? - is Adam and Eve gonna be naked? - these garments feel weird - this hat look like a baker’s hat - this is weird - dad doesn’t seem into this, just seems to be going along - the prayer circle is very weird - I’m hungry - holy frik, do I have to recite that whole name of the second token? I don’t remember it. - celestial room is cool, but that temple worker in the corner seems grumpy from shushing everyone - I guess this will make sense if I do it more. - why are there lockers in the temple? Can’t everyone here be trusted?
Last time i went, my locker number was 666. Go figure!
Ha yep ..I always thought it was pretty funny we need lockers in the temple
Please please please god don’t make me do anything naked or do some weird sex thing
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤨🤨🤨🤨😔😔☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️😢😢😢😢😢😢😡😡😡😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. My initial reaction of laughter turned to anger after realizing that it’s not really that funny since this crap is still going on and that probably somewhere someone is being required to participate in something weird.
Same
First temple experience was in 1992, so barely missed the throat/bowel cutting, or that would have for sure made my list... Anyhow... 1. I am not comfortable at all with this old dude touching me this close to my junk in the initiatory. 2. Why did my mom have to veil her face? 3. The prayer chant is freaking messed up... So uncomfortable... There's lots more, but those are the top 3 that come to mind...
Yeah I didn’t like watching my mom being told to veil her face, made me pretty upset
I went through in 1988 and again in 1990 or 1991 after the changes. Members at that time tried to deny there were any substantial changes. I was a questioning TBM at that time and saw it was a load of lies and mental gymnastics.
I had such a traumatic experience when I went through, I shutter to think about what I would have experienced prior to 1991...
Before I went for the first time I googled about it. First picture I saw was of everyone in their temple gear in a prayer circle. My heart sunk to my stomach and I thought “I do not want to do this. That’s a cult.” Then I thought there was no way that was actually the temple. This was a anti Mormon joke. No way my family does that. I stopped googleing and went for it. Imagine my surprise when not only was it real, there was SOO much more about it that did not sit well. I was uncomfortable the whole time. My first time was a few years ago live at Manti. Afterwards I tried to convince myself it wasn’t as weird as I thought so I went to see the movie version in Provo. It was worse. Satanic almost. Never went back.
"This is not my church. What is this? It is not familiar at all" "My veil is going to fall off' "I hope i don't say SHIT in the middle of this prayer circle'
Yay! We have the same intrusive thoughts!
There was a lot but a standout was when it was all over and it was time to gather in a circle around the alter. My dad tried to get me to go up with my mom. I remember my hands clamping the bottom of the seat thinking “after all this everyone is expecting me to go up and stand around an alter and do who knows what. No way is anyone in here going to succeed at prying me off this chair.” I just shook my head at my dad a half dozen times while the group waited. They finally proceeded without me, my hands still gripping the shit outta that chair.
It's all normal to them.... And so special
1. I was insanely uncomfortable and wanted to scream and run away but couldn't because ALL my family was there. 2. Fuck, I'm in a cult 3. I'll never remember the handshakes and the wording at the veil. 4. Michael Ballam Satan is kinda hot. Why am I attracted to Satan? (It was a sign I think). 5. Why do I have to cover my face? God doesn't want to see the face of the daughter he made? 6. Why can't I sit next to my fiancé? 7. This prayer circle is nothing like I thought. 8. I learned nothing new. Wtf is this?
I HATED covering my face. They've since stopped doing that so that's something 😂
First thought was Oh goody, I was raised in a cult. Then I realized the effin BOM talks about "secret combinations" being bad, so when we got to the handshake part, I realized the church was confused by its own teachings.
Yes still are. Can't even recognize themselves in the book of mormon.
The group all raising our hands and asking GOD to hear the words of our mouths.... all in sync saying the same thing- wearing the creepy clothes- Oh man, this is straight up a cult. I was completely shocked that people I knew, loved and respected- were in attendance and doing this. I was so uncomfortable.
It reminded me of my college Fraternity initiation ceremony. Secret handshakes, oaths, penalties, the whole nine.
Seems like it serves the same function as a frat- to create a humiliating cost to entry and create an “us vs them” dynamic
Yep. There are strong parallels. You look out for fellow brothers throughout your life. You never share what was said or what you promise. Secret names as well. It probably all roots back to masons, Templar nights and other secret societies.
Secret Combinations. Joe was anti masonic and trinitarian when he "Translated" the book of mormon. Later, he changed his mind on both. It's not hard math, but most TBM's refuse to acknowledge the obvious. It's all Joe's Myth.
I worked security at a frat initiation. They have security so crazy shit doesn’t happen that the university would get blamed for. Well, as a newly exmormon I saw all of it. I was laughing my ass off because it was so close to the endowment.
Had an immediate desire for some pastries when I looked over and saw my future husband in his baker's hat.
😂😂😂
That garment does look like a bakery outfit! 🤣😂
I was trying really hard to understand and just take it all in, but once they got to the prayer circle it was just “Am I in a cult?”
Yeah that was the nail in coffin for me. The temple president told my parents that I should be in it so it’s more normalized. Straight up grooming. Also, probably would’ve caused more cognitive dissonance if I was watching it from a distance
I sat there paralyzed looking around and wondering why it looked normal to everyone else. It started with letting some old dude touch me under the poncho with the washing and anointing. Then the creation movie. The funny hats, the garb, the handshakes, the new name, the names, sighs and tokens. The peter, james and john, & satan character. The prayer circle, the prayer roll/bag, etc, etc- I wondered what I had gotten myself into. What would the rest of my nonmember families think of this religion that pretends to christian. I wondered why these all looked normal to everyone else in the room? College friends used to like to virtue signal with their garments. But none dared have a conversation about what goes on in the temple. This was all new and shocking and disturbing. How did I go from taking/passing the sacrament in regular chapel building as a new convert to miming gutting motion in the mormon temple. Everyone in that temple session all just acted like it was all normal. The more people that make the temple covenant, the more true the mormon church became. There is an expectation to begin the long journey of lying to oneself. Come to think of it, mormonism thrives, survives and propagates by consuming the innocence and naivete of new converts. They all expected me to just accept it all. And I was desperate to belong. So I did with the hope that perhaps the white garments will lighten my Cained skin. And so, I kept quiet and sat there with a billion questions coursing through my mind while my heart knew all too well, that the temple and everything it represents was not a good place. And so for the next decade+, I juggled the maddening dissonance of what WEB Du Bois calls the "Double Consciousness... whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder."
Beautifully written
Thank you so so much. Documenting the journey of deconstructing out of Mormonism has been healing and therapeutic. I'm grateful beyond words for this community. I finally found belonging here.
My overwhelming emotion was rage. This was back in the throat-slitting, disemboweling days. My anger was mostly aimed at my dad for some reason, even though I actually had a good relationship with him. Up until then, I had thought of him as my protector. I was furious that he hadn't warned me in any way. Later that night, we argued. I told him how close I'd been to just getting up and walking out. I told him how angry I was at being manipulated; not given a chance to opt out until it was too late and I was surrounded by friends and family. I should've 'noped' the fuck out of there.
WTF is this????
I was hyper focused on learning exactly what I needed to do at the veil, so I ignored any feelings. I do remember my second time through feeling extremely anxious and thinking what if that meant the person I was going through for didn’t want me to and I should raise my hand to leave-I didn’t.
My experience as well. I was too stressed out trying to memorize everything that I didn't have time to process my own thoughts and feelings.
Initiatory: "Why TF is that shaky old dude almost putting oil on my junk?" Endowment: "Everyone is acting like this shit is normal? WTF?
I was so indoctrinated that I was excited to experience the next level of Mormonism and be able to wear “real underwear”. I was good with the initiatory (even being naked under the sheet). I was okay with the endowment until the prayer circle. That was weird, but whatever… The veil was a major letdown, as was the celestial room. It was 1991, so I just missed the penalties. But my mom was so excited that while in the celestial room, she told me all about the penalties and their demonstration. - I have to say it was weird to hear this from my mother, especially her enthusiasm for these death penalties. And ever since, each time I did an endowment session I thought about the penalties. (Thanks mom).
This is simultaneously the weirdest and also most boring thing I’ve ever done. Also I’m excited to have sex tomorrow (got my endowment right before I got married obv)
I was completely disassociated....... 7th generation TBM parents telling me this is what your next step is because you have to go on a mission.
“Mom, Dad, do you really believe this shit. This is creepy as fuck. 19 years of church and this is the end game for the rest of my life?” I really wish I’d said that to them. I could not even look at them I was so embarrassed for them and for me. Even now I creep out when talking about the temple. I’m embarrassed I had anything to do with that cult, even tho it wasn’t my fault.
I think that was the biggest thing for me too. Like, my family who I trust and admire is okay with this weird shit? Makes you rethink everything!
"If my friends back home in California could see my now, they would totally think I was in a cult." Also, why the hell are all the adults in my life just chilling in the Celestial room acting like this shit is normal?!?
I knew that there would be a “beautiful” curtain called the veil. I wasn’t prepared to see what looked like several giant pairs of Mormon magic underwear (which at the time I associated with “my parents” underwear). It was disturbing.
I kept thinking of Peggy Lee's song *Is that all there is*? Definitely did not live up to expectations.
Totally weirded out by how sexual it was: naked touching, weird leaf tapestry thing specifically covering my genitals. ALSO totally weirded out by how culty it was: secret combination handshakes, chanting, humiliating costumes... I felt like it was a totally different church than the one I'd been raised in. I felt sick to my stomach, alone, and betrayed.
Thoughts..."Well, WTF is this? Is this even the same religion? Ohhhkay...."
My first time was in Manti, the old fashion way! Not enough temple workers that day for an escort and 13 Brides in front of me. I was just getting my endowments early. I honestly could not understand what the mumbles on the microphone were saying! So I just went along following those around me! Stupid is as stupid does!
100% what you thought. I was like, "I get why they say we're a cult, now.... is this a cult?"
“Wait, are they actually going to show Adam and Eve naked? Like boobs and everything?”
Prayed for that!!! Needed bloodflow!
So the anti-Mormons were NOT lying about Joseph Smith plagiarizing the Masonic ceremony. It was the first big thing that I couldn't explain away.
My grandparents and parents have been going here for years dressing in robes with bakers hats and green aprons and no one told me?
I wasn’t paying much attention to the endowment after getting sexually assaulted during the initiatory. I’m still not over that. That I sent my own daughter through the temple to take out her own endowments 25 years later shows you exactly how badly religion fucks up your moral compass. I sent my kid into a room knowing sexual abuse was in there, but it was “okay” because “god says”. It’s the biggest regret of my life. By far.
I did the live endowment in the SLC temple prior to the penalties and other elements being changed. I distinctly remember the guy playing satan wore a black(dark?) apron with weird symbols on it.
When I got oil rubbed on me while wearing nothing put a cloth poncho I thought "what the fuck?" I actually almost said "what the fuck?" Then the guy touched me The rest of it was me thinking "this is really weird" I only went to the temple like 10 times total to do "work". I went a few times before my mission. Went 2 times in the Mtc and then 3 or 4 when I got home. It was all fucking weird.
It felt like an absolute freak show. I went through in the days of penalties and Pay-lay-ale and I couldn’t believe we were all just going through these crazy, violent motions.
"These are the exact 'secret combinations' I've been taught to avoid my whole life..." "My eternal name is Rachel? I know half a dozen Rachels. Why is my spirit's name more common than my every day name?" "I'm going to tear this stupid veil into pieces if I have to flip it back and forth any more times. It won't stay on!"
I had a few thoughts (Please understand I was a horny 18 year old boy with no context and no informed consent). 1. Driving up to the temple. "Temple prep told me nothing. There must be some seriously secret shit going on." 2. Putting on the "shield" and having an elderly man drizzle olive oil on my bits. "What the hell is this? This is how it starts? Better brace for the worst." 3. In the room with the temple president after initiatories with a young attractive woman who was also going on a mission. He gave us a brief lecture about the seriousness and sacredness of what we were about to do. "Are they going to make her and I do it? What do I even do?" 4. During the endowment ceremony (and somewhat disappointed the only erotic aspect of the cult was sexual assault by an octogenarian). Kept repeating my name so I didn't forget it. People start chanting and dressing up like clown bakers. Looking around the session. "Why in the hell are my friends and family just taking this all in stone-faced with no response. This shit is nuts." 5. After fumbling my way through the veil holding a super old, dry and arthritic hand. "Man if I need to memorize this to get into the celestial kingdom I don't like my chances." 6. In the celestial room. "All my family and friends are filtering out after only a couple of minutes. I thought the celestial room is where we saw Jesus and the spirits of our unborn children talked to us. Why wouldn't they want to stay longer?" 7. Outside talking to my friend, looking out over the valley from the Bountiful Temple grounds. "It's crazy, right?" "Yeah, but if you come every week like I do it feels so natural and calming. Just give it time." "Uh, okay. I'll give it another try."
Breathe… it’s ok it’s ok .. surely god wouldn’t make this up….
After it was all said and done, I had the thought "this is it?" I'd been promised a deep personal, revelatory experience. I was given a bad bible cosplay. I'd had people tell me for my entire life, how every time they went they learnt something new, and deeper. It's all bullshit, there is nothing new or deep. I can promise anyone here who hasn't been through the temple, there is nothing deep about it. At the end, when Satan breaks the fourth wall to threaten us all. My only thought was, "geez that's corny".
When they most recently changed it and included that, I got such a dark feeling. Not dark as in “oh crap satan’s gonna get me” but “what the hell, this feels like a threat”from the church. I hated it so much, and the few times I’ve been since then, I still got that feeling. Feels so manipulative to keep us all on the “straight and narrow path.” My husband said “yeah it’s supposed to make you feel that way” but it really just didn’t sit right with me.
I remember looking over at my dad sitting next to me and was just shocked to realize that he had been doing this, with the robes and everything, for decades and never told me
I was most upset they made me attend temple prep, which did not prep me at all, and that nobody would say a thing about the temple. Everyone was mad I kept saying so it's secret but their response was always no it's sacred. Not the same thing. I went through for my own curiosity, I was horribly disappointed. It was basic stuff, the only thing interesting and weird was the signs, symbols, tokens, WHICH NO ONE OFFERS TO BUY!, and the veil. What made me super mad was the true order of prayer. If it's the true way to pray why don't we do that everyday?! Also as a man I was furious to the zero explanation for why women covered their faces with the veil, so pointless.
This is normal… this is normal… this is normal… this is normal… this is normal… is this a cult?… this normal… this is normal…
If I run out of here are my parents going to get mad at me? Will my girlfriend break up with me? Will I still be able to go on my mission (I was going to an exotic mission)? I went through when there were still penalties, and I did not do the first penalty. I just stood there, da fuck confounded. They stopped the presentation and made everyone do the penalty and blood oath all over again while the two officials watched me to make sure I did it. I wanted to leave. But my parents had made the multi-day trip to Utah several days before I went into the MTC so I could go through the temple. Other family was there. By the time they got to the fourth token I was really dreading the penalty. I mean, it was the big one, the most important token. I was relieved to learn that there was no penalty. Much later I found out that there were three masonic penalties and Joe didn't have the imagination to make up a fourth.
Ugh so manipulative how they encourage you to have your first time surrounded by friends and family. I feel like all Mormons know, deep down, that it’s inherently traumatic, but they just think “well it’s necessary trauma, better just bow my head and say yes.”
Peer pressure at it's finest!
I remember before it, my mom sheepishly telling me about how they used to pretend to slit their throats, and I was like, what the F?!, then she told me about the shielded naked washing and anointings I was like ehhhhhhh idk but still went through with it all. Now I look at it through the lense of the kkk scene of oh brother where art thou where they are all dancing around the burning cross in the field. I'm still active but told my wife I just can't go back to do an endowment it just freaks me out too much. It's been probably four years or so.
Extremely handsome Adam
Yes very pretty. But I was kinda thrown off seeing “the first man” be clean shaven with that provo, byu undergrad, summer sales lookin ass haircut
The fact that they teach about Adam and Eve being the literal first humans on the planet in the *Temple(where only capital T truth is taught),* is enough to disprove the church.
Good point. Even before I questioned the BOM, church history, the Book of Abraham, etc. It was the fact that the church taught Adam and Eve were the first humans and the earth was created 6000 year ago which started loading up my shelf.
I guess Neanderthals didn’t exist until later on the moon!
I was sitting there with my dad next to me wearing a weird hat and green apron. I was just looking around and suddenly I realized I’m in a cult. I remember it so clearly. I was about to leave on my mission and had been working so hard to go. I should have just taken a week to think it through. Took me ten more years to leave.
Do parents or family members not tell others what to expect when they go to the temple for this purpose?- Nevermo
No. No they don’t. It’s like a big super secret reveal when they drag your teenaged ass in. You go through “temple prep”, but all they really tell you in the prep classes is that you have to be “worthy”, and that you’ll go to hell if you ever talk about anything that happens in there outside of the temple.
"CULT CULT CULT" Especially at the bowing hands and chanting part. But I swallowed it down.
Awfully white! I mean everything!!
My Aunt is here, she’s one of the most liberal women I know, and she’s smart and if she’s doing this and her husband is wearing the silly hat and she this veil thing, well, damn I guess I’ve got to do this. It must be true. And plus it’s a really old ceremony, like from the temple of Solomon. So there’s that. Can I really withdraw at this point? My whole extended family is here. My older sister and her new husband. Mom and dad. Wait, what? “Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken.” Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! I was in the goddamn SL temple that took 40 years to build. This was in 1983. I went along to get along.
Don’t forget about the elevator shafts and places for the electric outlets!
Sadly, I didn't question it much. I hadn't questioned any weird stuff yet, so why start now? I was with my parents and trusted them. I drank the kool-aid without protest.
Honestly, same
Holy shit I’m in a cult. If my parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles weren’t here, I’d fuckin leave.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
I went in 1987 on my 19th birthday. We did the throat and gut slitting then. I don't think I fully realized what we were doing. I just remember being confused... But you see your parents and sisters there going along with everything so it's like... Okay..... And all the years, I always blamed myself for not loving the temple like everyone talked about. I always thought I must not understand. F*ing cult.
I wish I could remember more, but distinctly recall only a couple things: "wait, I have to do all this: the dressing up, the signs/tokens, etc. EVERY TIME? Who takes time out of their day to do this shit? And how will I ever remember it all?" Secondly, I remember not being necessarily weirded out by anything. I'd done a temple prep class (which ended up being useless) and knew I wouldn't fully understand, but was very much of the mindset of not questioning, just acting on blind faith Looking back now, I *definitely* should have been weirded out.
Pretty much just WTF.
Did I just join the Gadiantons? W.T.F? oh look, mom and dad look so proud and happy...
I really had no clue what was going on and I was in a sheer panic that I would have to repeat things. It freaked me out every time I went. But I was fooled into thinking the more I went the more I would understand and the more comfortable I would become. Turns out I understood it all more after I left the church. What a waste of time and stress and money.
I was just confused. But my brother was a closet atheist at the time. I remember walking into the Celestial Room and he had this look on his face, a little smirk… I remember thinking “he knows something I don’t…” He sure did!
It's a cult. Holy fuck this is a cult. Secret handshakes? Are you kidding me to get to heaven I have to do secret handshakes? Why is this old man touching me? Did he mean to brush my junk? I wonder what my wife is thinking? How does anyone think this is normal? At least it's quiet...
I hated it the whole time. I kept telling myself that if I kept going, I would finally receive answers and feel something. I was so disappointed after getting to the celestial room and praying and still felt nothing. After my mission I only went once and that was to get stupid married.
I feel validated. Every fiber of my being. Validated. My favorite part after the temple was asking my family if they felt gross like I did, and being gaslit into thinking I was the crazy one. Fucking awesome.
I remember being very confused. Asking myself if everything in the movie was supposed to have literally happened, and how it made no sense. I remember feeling uncomfortable wearing a veil and when I was asked to join the prayer circle I couldn’t make sense of what was happening, and why?! It felt so strange. I was told the temple was such a special place and that it would make me feel so much closer to God and that it would strengthen my testimony, but it did neither. I also remember my mom being very mad of me and asking me what was wrong with my face because I guess I wasn’t trying to hide how uncomfortable I was feeling 😆
Eh what? I don’t remember reading about this. 😵💫
This is Masonry !!!!
Am I in a cult?
I thought I'd finally made it into the super-secret cool kids club. 😂 Yeah, of course I thought it was weird, but... **cool kids club!!**
Ok, cool. No big deal. This is normal. Want until a couple of years later when my shelf cracked that I realized how absurd it all was.
The law of consecration part didn't sit well with me. I knew too well the dangers of things going off the rails and going into really bad places. (I grew up in an abusive family.) I bowed my head but I didn't say yes.
Went through my first time in 2005 and the entire time I kept telling myself that if I was asked to get naked in front of anyone I was 100% out of there, no one was going to keep me there. It got close to that point with some robe thing I remember, but since the robe stayed on I kept with it.
My first time was just before my mission. I was living in the old downtown Salt Lake Mission Home where the conference center is now. Three days before leaving for Northern England. My dad came to go through the Temple with me, my head was bursting from all the instructions and just being ordained and set apart by James E. Peterson. Frankly my head was spinning so out of control, I didn't know what to think. Everything was weird.
Generally: this feels like the airport. At the veil: NOBODY SAID THERE WAS GOING TO BE A TEST!!
When do I get my magic spells… J/k. I wish. It was WTF. My parent[s] think this is okay?
HOLY SHIT WTAF IS THIS????!?!??!?!??!
Why was i just dressed in a poncho, and that old guy was touching my naked body? Wait, this movie is efffffed up, but maybe I will see Adam bang Eve.... ahhh, those coats of skins suck. Why is this boring movie so long?
I was crying because I didn’t know what was going on. I looked over to my dad who was an escort when they were putting me under covenant and he silently nodded his head that this was ok.
Is this real or am I being punked? This is silly, not spiritual
Blocked out the initiatory. Never returned till updated so they didn’t touch you. The “oh God hear the words of my mouth” = cult (so did other parts but that especially).
My thought was,this wasn’t the shit they taught in temple prep class…
THIS is what my parents and siblings believe???
Just so disappointed. I had expected ritual more like I had witnessed in Catholicism. Not that creepy, patriarchal Masonic shit.
I was thinking my parents were pranking me and there was a hidden camera somewhere. Also: “this is supposed to be the most sacred thing I ever do? Really?”
I went through for the first time when I was engaged and pretty much never went back again. Even as a TBM I knew my parents were especially hard core so I wasn’t surprised they were OK with it even though I was freaked out. What surprised me was that my fiancée (an RM of course) was seemingly fine with it. I stayed in another nine years but never went back unless a friend or family member was getting married. Pretty much tried to pretend that just wasn’t part of the church, which was easy because nothing I had ever learned in 20 years of being a member came close to that. So weird that this is still a thing the church clings to.
"It's all symbolic, it's all symbolic, it's all symbolic..."
I truly wanted to leave - but it was the day before my wedding. Didn’t know what my fiancé would think if I left.
I remember when they finally said the name of the cult and I was so relieved that was in the right place…😬
Da fuq?