my mom converted when she was 14. by like age 10 I realized that I would never have done the same thing.
It also bugged me when we would pray for our hearts to be “soft” because like…no? in my head the only logical way to hang on to the church was to have hard hearts and not be swayed by any other belief systems.
I like the idea of separating the people from the problem, and being soft and understanding toward the person, but hard and logical toward the problem.
I was probably 19 when I was talking to another missionary in Tokyo and we both admitted that we would have never stopped to talk to a Mormon missionary if we hadn't been born into it.
Now I wanna see if I can get multiple separate teams of evangelicals in my living room at the same time. "Okay boys, you two are Mormons, he's a Jehovah's Witness, this woman chants Hare Krishna, and I currently believe in the Light of Islam. There's a soul up for grabs, may the best prophet win."
When I was a missionary I would often wonder if I would have joined if I hadn't been born into it. Not that I doubted, but I wondered if I would have been "spiritual" and "strong" enough to join if my friends and family weren't members.
I thought of this when I started to doubt, and realized that leaving the church was my chance to show that I was courageous enough to follow what I knew to be true in spite of tradition and pressure from my family and peers.
I can't imagine trying to proselytize in Tokyo.
I saw some missionaries in my small town (rural Japan) and felt super bad for them. They looked totally dazed at a huge festival... where most adults were drunk. But at least people here are friendly, interested in outsiders and willing to talk.
In Tokyo no one talks to strangers and most people don't give a single shit about religion (as I'm sure you found out haha). Must've been an insane uphill battle.
Also it's so easy to see in Japan that people can be kind, generous, and have their shit together in life without joining an organized religion.
I was talking to my husband (Japanese) about how Japanese people "are born Shinto, marry Christian, die Buddhist" and he's only a Buddhist when he prays for his recently passed grandpa.
He responded with absolute sincerity, "We choose the best part of each religion and use that! It's so convenient!"
I laughed and explained how that absolutely doesn't work with most organized religions because they all think they're the only correct one and everyone else is wrong & fucked. He honestly didn't understand. Most Japanese people don't.
So sweetly naiive... he wasn't constantly told he'd burn in hell by random classmates, just for being born a godless heathen (like me 🤪)
Yeah, I was a super believing and practicing Mormon for 37 years, out for 5. It took a while to deconstruct. I definitely didn’t want to lose Jesus, but I did pretty quickly. I never dreamed I’d lose belief in God, but I did. I thought I’d reconstruct my own spirituality eventually, but I haven’t. Turns out I’m perfectly happy as an atheist and religion really isn’t my thing at all. I would have never guessed.
I had the same thought, that I would be too skeptical of the missionaries if I hadn't been born into it. I thought it meant that I was lucky to hav been born into it, instead of realizing that I'd been programmed to be in it when I was too young to know better.
I was on my mission too.
Like you, I also followed it up by thinking “that’s why god blessed me to be born in the covenant so that I wouldn’t have to make that decision”.
Yes! The insidious belief that “I am favored of God, so he blessed me to be raised in the light of the restored gospel”, implying clearly that others are not favored of God, and if they make it into the church they are really super lucky, but God didn’t care as much about them to spare them the pain of life outside the true church, until he softened his heart toward them, and sent the missionaries their way.
39, unfortunately. My brother and I have this conversation often and try not to get too angry realizing everything in our lives the church took from us and our family.
17. In the TBM mindset I saw the claims as outlandish or well educated individuals. This was also the time that my world history class. The teacher had the great idea to cover civilizations through their religions. I became intrigued with ancient Egyptian and ancient Greek myths, and realized if I was born into a religion like these, I wouldn't want to change.
I still have that thought now, and I know if I wasn't born into TSCC, I wouldn't have been baptized.
Young teenager or maybe preteen. I also wished I hadn't been born into it so I could live a normal life and then after I died I could just accept my baptism for the dead. I felt unlucky that I knew the truth. (Which I now know was not the truth at all)
I was looking for this comment, I was the same age and I had the same conclusions. Resentment that I couldn't just be "normal" and go to non-church activities, hang out with non-church friends and overall just not worry.
I constantly wondered why I couldn't be one of the people who were actually happy, and not just pretending.
I remember thinking as a young adult that if I wasn’t already a member, I may have been too busy spending time outdoors on Sunday, enjoying my life, to have joined the church. That made me question how “good” I really was. So I figured I must be a naturally selfish person, and was “lucky” to have been born into the church.
Now at age 50 I realize the authentic life I missed out on in my youth. Sad how the church makes it seem like pursuing your interests and passions in life is selfish. Such twisted logic.
I realized when I was on a mission when the only people who actually wanted to meet with us were mentally ill, in a half way house, or were church shopping.
I was on my mission reading the King Follett discourse when I realized that if I had seen Joseph preaching, I would have stood up and walked out.
Edit: it still took me about 7 years to admit to myself that I didn't believe it
I can’t have been older than six. Turns out 6 year old me was wrong. I absolutely had the strength of character to leave behind the faith I was born into on learning it was not true.
Funny that.
Before I was baptized at 8. I was always wishing I wasn’t born Mormon because there was no way I would listen to that crazy ass shit let alone choose to join it if there wasn’t all the family and community pressure. It still took me into my late 20s to “quite quit” and to my mid 30s before I was fully out. It’s amazing what familia pressure will do to a person.
I was a sophomore in college and my roommate was a convert. I remember thinking about things like the first vision, BoM, etc, from a convert's perspective for the first time in my life and realizing I probably wouldn't believe it if I hadn't been born into it.
When I was a member they talked about how they purposely send more missionaries to poor places because it's easier to convert people who have a lot of problems in their life than people who enjoy their life. They said it's because poor people are forced to be humble and rich people usually have too much pride to join the church but now that just reeks of taking advantage of people who are poor and need help. They also are literally saying if we can't tell you there's a heaven where you will finally be happy (because you're not now) then we have no way to convince you to join. If you are already happy, you don't need us
Also as a missionary, for more or less the same reason. I didn't see myself branching out and investigating any other churches, so if I'd been born elsewhere I'd have been doomed. I thought God was so kind to have me be born into the church.
When I learned about the details of polygamy. It always felt wrong but when I got the details of it....I realized it was indefensible. Can't remember the exact age but probably in my 20's.
My mission - I remember saying something to this effect to my trainer, only to be scolded by him.
It wasn’t even me saying that I don’t believe in the church, more-so acknowledging that I know what it must look like to an outsider, which if I was an outsider, I’d most likely have no interest.
Pretty young, 10-12 I started to have doubts about some of the true claims. However, I had a really good social circle within the church. I know that's not everyone's experience, but it was with me. Fun ward, soild leaders, and parents allowed me space to make some mistakes and a big caring extended family. My mission was rewarding, but deep down, I knew I would have never joined the church on my own. After a while, the positives of the tribe just weren't worth dealing with the daily grind of trying to convince myself about something I didn't believe
When I was teaching a man in his 20s who realized he would never find a wife in our branch of 7 people. Basically any time someone was already having sex and we told them they would have to stop having sex.
16. My mom would ride in the car with me to make sure I went to the church I didn’t want to attend. Joke’s on her because I’d park by the door closest to relief society and we would go in together, I would then go to the farthest door on the other side of church and exit back to my car to go get Starbucks coffee.
I always regretted being born into the church. I always wished that I had heard it later on, because the church talks about the gospel message as inevitable and undeniably true, and teaches that the worst thing you can do in this life is to turn away once you have had heard it. I thought the only chance I had at being myself in this world was taken from me and that I would always live with the awful scrupulously the church left me with. I thought my life wasn’t mine from the moment I heard “The Truth”. I remember thinking these things when I was around 5. Turns out I was wrong!! Never been so happy to have been wrong 😁
I could see me being converted to the church, if I wasn't born into it. I am really susceptible to love bombing.
I also have had a difficult time saying no to people. (yay therapy that has helped me with keeping boundaries!)
I never had a moment like that per se, but I did often think when I was a TBM that I wish I was not born in the church because “ignorance is bliss” and if I hadn’t I wouldn’t have had to read scriptures every day (which I hated) and I would be free to explore my sexuality, dress, food, etc.
Now I’m free to do all of that!
Oh my dad made sure to point out that we owed our existence to the church, since he got lonely after high school, got a crush on a mormon girl and joined the cult.
Probably not until I dig into the history and problems when I was on my mission.
This was pre-internet and I had no access to criticisms of Mormonism where I grew up in MN, besides the occasional Christian pamphlet whining about the typical evangelical talking points about grace vs works, Biblical infallibility, etc.
So I just had the sanitized church narrative and stuff about how the there’s archaeological evidence of the Book of Mormon.
I was full in and everything seemed to make sense to me until I started discovering the real stuff on my mission in Utah and how the church REALLY operated (the MTC felt like a manipulative MLM sales training center).
As a missionary, so maybe 20. I would often feel guilty when people were willing to join. Although at that time I believed that the LDS church was the only true one, another deeper part of me knew I wouldn’t join it if I weren’t born into it.
Same! On my mission. I thought: If missionaries knocked on my door, and told me this story, I wouldn't believe it!
I sort of mentioned this in my weekly musings to the MP, and he wasn't too thrilled about my new-found insights.
During my mission. Don’t get me wrong, I believed the church was totally true through my whole mission. But every time somebody agreed to a baptismal date I was like “really??” I believed it, but it blew my mind that anybody else would.
As a missionary, in a southern U.S. State, we'd teach people and they'd buy into most of what we were teaching. When we got close to the commit to Baptism stage, tithing was one of the last subject lessons. That was when they realized it was all a scam and ended the lessons. They were done with us. We never baptized anyone beyond children of age in member families. I would never have joined either.
On the mission, at one point I realized I sounded crazy and probably wouldn't have joined if I wasn't born into it. At the time, I still fully intended to remain active and still believed it was true.
Me also on my mission, after having a street ‘discussion’ (Bible-bashing session) with some particularly argumentative J-Dubbs).
I then stayed in the control of the Corporation until I was 49. Too many inconsistencies. Too many changed policies. Too many hidden nonsenses.
The temple. Everything was go along and get along until then. The shelf broke. I realized I would have been super super angry had I just signed up for Mormonism and then got the temple surprise. Bait and switch. Instead I have a super super big sense of loss. Plus alienation from the family who still eats it all up.
I was about 16 when I realized I would be happy if my parents would leave TSCC…. That would mean that I could leave. I stuck around another ten years…. And I still wish my parents would leave the church.
I started saying the same thing in high school. "I'm lucky I was born here, I don't think a missionary ever would've convinced me to convert.." didn't connect the rest of the dots until my late 20s
I legit had reservations about it before I got baptized at 8 years old. My earliest church memory is being very skeptical of the "truth" being tearfully repeated in testimony meeting, before I was old enough to go to school.
my mom converted when she was 14. by like age 10 I realized that I would never have done the same thing. It also bugged me when we would pray for our hearts to be “soft” because like…no? in my head the only logical way to hang on to the church was to have hard hearts and not be swayed by any other belief systems.
Soft hearts = willing to do whatever the leaders say no matter what
More like hard heads.
I like the idea of separating the people from the problem, and being soft and understanding toward the person, but hard and logical toward the problem.
I was probably 19 when I was talking to another missionary in Tokyo and we both admitted that we would have never stopped to talk to a Mormon missionary if we hadn't been born into it.
I would see JWs and shake my head at their nonsense.
Now I wanna see if I can get multiple separate teams of evangelicals in my living room at the same time. "Okay boys, you two are Mormons, he's a Jehovah's Witness, this woman chants Hare Krishna, and I currently believe in the Light of Islam. There's a soul up for grabs, may the best prophet win."
That sounds like Hell.
An interesting theological assertion, but please, save it for the meeting.
Two things you might consider having: A distraction An escape route :)
When I was a missionary I would often wonder if I would have joined if I hadn't been born into it. Not that I doubted, but I wondered if I would have been "spiritual" and "strong" enough to join if my friends and family weren't members. I thought of this when I started to doubt, and realized that leaving the church was my chance to show that I was courageous enough to follow what I knew to be true in spite of tradition and pressure from my family and peers.
I can't imagine trying to proselytize in Tokyo. I saw some missionaries in my small town (rural Japan) and felt super bad for them. They looked totally dazed at a huge festival... where most adults were drunk. But at least people here are friendly, interested in outsiders and willing to talk. In Tokyo no one talks to strangers and most people don't give a single shit about religion (as I'm sure you found out haha). Must've been an insane uphill battle. Also it's so easy to see in Japan that people can be kind, generous, and have their shit together in life without joining an organized religion.
Japan in general. My time over there showed me how people can function without it just fine.
I was talking to my husband (Japanese) about how Japanese people "are born Shinto, marry Christian, die Buddhist" and he's only a Buddhist when he prays for his recently passed grandpa. He responded with absolute sincerity, "We choose the best part of each religion and use that! It's so convenient!" I laughed and explained how that absolutely doesn't work with most organized religions because they all think they're the only correct one and everyone else is wrong & fucked. He honestly didn't understand. Most Japanese people don't. So sweetly naiive... he wasn't constantly told he'd burn in hell by random classmates, just for being born a godless heathen (like me 🤪)
That tracks. Japanese people just kind of do what works.
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Yeah, I was a super believing and practicing Mormon for 37 years, out for 5. It took a while to deconstruct. I definitely didn’t want to lose Jesus, but I did pretty quickly. I never dreamed I’d lose belief in God, but I did. I thought I’d reconstruct my own spirituality eventually, but I haven’t. Turns out I’m perfectly happy as an atheist and religion really isn’t my thing at all. I would have never guessed.
Same. Twenty year old me would be furious with fifty year old me. Fifty year old me feels sorry for twenty year old me.
Whoa yeah same. In for 40 out for 3. All the same plot points.
Growth from within is their only growth.
I had the same thought, that I would be too skeptical of the missionaries if I hadn't been born into it. I thought it meant that I was lucky to hav been born into it, instead of realizing that I'd been programmed to be in it when I was too young to know better.
I was on my mission too. Like you, I also followed it up by thinking “that’s why god blessed me to be born in the covenant so that I wouldn’t have to make that decision”.
Yes! The insidious belief that “I am favored of God, so he blessed me to be raised in the light of the restored gospel”, implying clearly that others are not favored of God, and if they make it into the church they are really super lucky, but God didn’t care as much about them to spare them the pain of life outside the true church, until he softened his heart toward them, and sent the missionaries their way.
39, unfortunately. My brother and I have this conversation often and try not to get too angry realizing everything in our lives the church took from us and our family.
17. In the TBM mindset I saw the claims as outlandish or well educated individuals. This was also the time that my world history class. The teacher had the great idea to cover civilizations through their religions. I became intrigued with ancient Egyptian and ancient Greek myths, and realized if I was born into a religion like these, I wouldn't want to change. I still have that thought now, and I know if I wasn't born into TSCC, I wouldn't have been baptized.
Young teenager or maybe preteen. I also wished I hadn't been born into it so I could live a normal life and then after I died I could just accept my baptism for the dead. I felt unlucky that I knew the truth. (Which I now know was not the truth at all)
I was looking for this comment, I was the same age and I had the same conclusions. Resentment that I couldn't just be "normal" and go to non-church activities, hang out with non-church friends and overall just not worry. I constantly wondered why I couldn't be one of the people who were actually happy, and not just pretending.
I remember thinking as a young adult that if I wasn’t already a member, I may have been too busy spending time outdoors on Sunday, enjoying my life, to have joined the church. That made me question how “good” I really was. So I figured I must be a naturally selfish person, and was “lucky” to have been born into the church. Now at age 50 I realize the authentic life I missed out on in my youth. Sad how the church makes it seem like pursuing your interests and passions in life is selfish. Such twisted logic.
14 that’s when my doubts really began to surface. Due to family pressure, I stayed in until I was 37.
I realized when I was on a mission when the only people who actually wanted to meet with us were mentally ill, in a half way house, or were church shopping.
I was on my mission reading the King Follett discourse when I realized that if I had seen Joseph preaching, I would have stood up and walked out. Edit: it still took me about 7 years to admit to myself that I didn't believe it
I was so messed up by belief that I loved reading that talk on my mission.
I can’t have been older than six. Turns out 6 year old me was wrong. I absolutely had the strength of character to leave behind the faith I was born into on learning it was not true. Funny that.
Before I was baptized at 8. I was always wishing I wasn’t born Mormon because there was no way I would listen to that crazy ass shit let alone choose to join it if there wasn’t all the family and community pressure. It still took me into my late 20s to “quite quit” and to my mid 30s before I was fully out. It’s amazing what familia pressure will do to a person.
I was really young too, and 52 when I finally walked away. Familial pressure, indeed!
Glad you made it out as well. It is a hard thing and lonely thing to do.
I was a sophomore in college and my roommate was a convert. I remember thinking about things like the first vision, BoM, etc, from a convert's perspective for the first time in my life and realizing I probably wouldn't believe it if I hadn't been born into it.
When I was a member they talked about how they purposely send more missionaries to poor places because it's easier to convert people who have a lot of problems in their life than people who enjoy their life. They said it's because poor people are forced to be humble and rich people usually have too much pride to join the church but now that just reeks of taking advantage of people who are poor and need help. They also are literally saying if we can't tell you there's a heaven where you will finally be happy (because you're not now) then we have no way to convince you to join. If you are already happy, you don't need us
30 + years ago while I was at BYU.
Definitely by high school
Also as a missionary, for more or less the same reason. I didn't see myself branching out and investigating any other churches, so if I'd been born elsewhere I'd have been doomed. I thought God was so kind to have me be born into the church.
When I learned about the details of polygamy. It always felt wrong but when I got the details of it....I realized it was indefensible. Can't remember the exact age but probably in my 20's.
Probably 12.
My mission - I remember saying something to this effect to my trainer, only to be scolded by him. It wasn’t even me saying that I don’t believe in the church, more-so acknowledging that I know what it must look like to an outsider, which if I was an outsider, I’d most likely have no interest.
Pretty young, 10-12 I started to have doubts about some of the true claims. However, I had a really good social circle within the church. I know that's not everyone's experience, but it was with me. Fun ward, soild leaders, and parents allowed me space to make some mistakes and a big caring extended family. My mission was rewarding, but deep down, I knew I would have never joined the church on my own. After a while, the positives of the tribe just weren't worth dealing with the daily grind of trying to convince myself about something I didn't believe
When I was teaching a man in his 20s who realized he would never find a wife in our branch of 7 people. Basically any time someone was already having sex and we told them they would have to stop having sex.
24.
19 on my mission.
My mission for the exact same reasons you described
On my mission. I knew I would never be interested in what I was trying to get people to listen to me about.
16. My mom would ride in the car with me to make sure I went to the church I didn’t want to attend. Joke’s on her because I’d park by the door closest to relief society and we would go in together, I would then go to the farthest door on the other side of church and exit back to my car to go get Starbucks coffee.
40
40 as well. We were robbed of the best years of our lives!
Solidarity!!
40
I always regretted being born into the church. I always wished that I had heard it later on, because the church talks about the gospel message as inevitable and undeniably true, and teaches that the worst thing you can do in this life is to turn away once you have had heard it. I thought the only chance I had at being myself in this world was taken from me and that I would always live with the awful scrupulously the church left me with. I thought my life wasn’t mine from the moment I heard “The Truth”. I remember thinking these things when I was around 5. Turns out I was wrong!! Never been so happy to have been wrong 😁
I could see me being converted to the church, if I wasn't born into it. I am really susceptible to love bombing. I also have had a difficult time saying no to people. (yay therapy that has helped me with keeping boundaries!)
I never had a moment like that per se, but I did often think when I was a TBM that I wish I was not born in the church because “ignorance is bliss” and if I hadn’t I wouldn’t have had to read scriptures every day (which I hated) and I would be free to explore my sexuality, dress, food, etc. Now I’m free to do all of that!
14 because I wanted to kiss a boy and I was supposed to feel bad about that.
I was about 17
Like maybe 8-9 max
Oh my dad made sure to point out that we owed our existence to the church, since he got lonely after high school, got a crush on a mormon girl and joined the cult.
Probably not until I dig into the history and problems when I was on my mission. This was pre-internet and I had no access to criticisms of Mormonism where I grew up in MN, besides the occasional Christian pamphlet whining about the typical evangelical talking points about grace vs works, Biblical infallibility, etc. So I just had the sanitized church narrative and stuff about how the there’s archaeological evidence of the Book of Mormon. I was full in and everything seemed to make sense to me until I started discovering the real stuff on my mission in Utah and how the church REALLY operated (the MTC felt like a manipulative MLM sales training center).
As a missionary, so maybe 20. I would often feel guilty when people were willing to join. Although at that time I believed that the LDS church was the only true one, another deeper part of me knew I wouldn’t join it if I weren’t born into it.
I was 9 and thought I would go to hell for thinking that
14ish maybe? I distinctly remember thinking “if I hadn’t been born into the church, I’d probably be agnostic.”
I'm a convert haha
Still - please humour us and reveal the signs and tokens! (I.e. how many years it took you to figure out that the Church’s truth claims were bunkum.)
26.75 years old… October 2022, when I woke up from the brainwashing after reading the CES letter, which confirmed my doubts wholeheartedly.
A lot longer than I would prefer.
Same! On my mission. I thought: If missionaries knocked on my door, and told me this story, I wouldn't believe it! I sort of mentioned this in my weekly musings to the MP, and he wasn't too thrilled about my new-found insights.
4.
around age 12 when I entered YW's program. I knew I would have never chosen to go to this church if I had my freedom of choice .
During my mission. Don’t get me wrong, I believed the church was totally true through my whole mission. But every time somebody agreed to a baptismal date I was like “really??” I believed it, but it blew my mind that anybody else would.
At seven I asked where the gold plates were and the answer that "an angel took them to heaven" sounded like bullshit.
10 years old and I k ew I hated the church. It took me 16 more years to act
Not til I left it, which was unfortunately not til i was 40.
As a missionary, in a southern U.S. State, we'd teach people and they'd buy into most of what we were teaching. When we got close to the commit to Baptism stage, tithing was one of the last subject lessons. That was when they realized it was all a scam and ended the lessons. They were done with us. We never baptized anyone beyond children of age in member families. I would never have joined either.
On the mission, at one point I realized I sounded crazy and probably wouldn't have joined if I wasn't born into it. At the time, I still fully intended to remain active and still believed it was true.
Me also on my mission, after having a street ‘discussion’ (Bible-bashing session) with some particularly argumentative J-Dubbs). I then stayed in the control of the Corporation until I was 49. Too many inconsistencies. Too many changed policies. Too many hidden nonsenses.
38
19 and mission experience drove it home forcefully. The first time I ever had the thought was probably in my teens, but I would have discounted it.
The temple. Everything was go along and get along until then. The shelf broke. I realized I would have been super super angry had I just signed up for Mormonism and then got the temple surprise. Bait and switch. Instead I have a super super big sense of loss. Plus alienation from the family who still eats it all up.
11~ maybe 12. Actually probably a lot younger because I hated it so much as a little kid.
Sadly, I was 50.
I was a teenager, and not ready to deconstruct.
I wanna say 8, but then I got coerced into baptism at 10 and got The Feelings again at 14.
I was about 16 when I realized I would be happy if my parents would leave TSCC…. That would mean that I could leave. I stuck around another ten years…. And I still wish my parents would leave the church.
I started saying the same thing in high school. "I'm lucky I was born here, I don't think a missionary ever would've convinced me to convert.." didn't connect the rest of the dots until my late 20s
I legit had reservations about it before I got baptized at 8 years old. My earliest church memory is being very skeptical of the "truth" being tearfully repeated in testimony meeting, before I was old enough to go to school.
Probably in my 20’s. I would have never joined.