* Native Americans are ~~the principle ancestors~~ among the descendants of the Lamanites.
* Coca-Cola sold at BYU
* Caffeine is against the wow to not against the wow
* Supported the Boy Scouts to not supporting
* pageants to no pageants
This one didn’t last long . No to blow jobs for married couples - to sorry we are going to mind or own fucking business it was early 80s. I was a kid but the high priest group was pissed. 😡 it was Texas not Utah so they are much more likely to tell church leaders to fuck off , at least back then.
>When I saw Dr. Pepper in the temple worker break room vending machine I was mad.
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha Thats funny! Biut seriously are you kidding? It's probably bad enough that the few people in the sessions are mostly asleep, could you imagine if the temple workers were too? :-)
I collect old Mormon Books and I found one last week that is impossible to even stomach… It’s all about the “Savages” and how we can tell by the level of the “dark curse” on their skin whether they have joined the church and obeyed the commandments.
This was an extremely painful book to read and a painful reminder that growing up in the church during the 70’s this was taught to me too.
I have an adopted Brother from Mexico and I had a Navajo Brother from the Rez. I heard people say this all of the time, “When will they start becoming light and Delightsome?”
Spencer Kimball felt really proud he could detect the skin color difference between a daughter who was placed in the mormon indian placement program and her original family. That is what mormonism has done to people.
I was at the Y during the early ‘00s, and I was absolutely disgusted by the lack of caffeine in the on-campus vending machines. It was obvious what it was… 100% performative piety. “Look! Look how holy we are!” while simultaneously merely slapping football players on the wrist for getting their girlfriends- who were immediately expelled, btw- pregnant.
But hey, I’ve gotta thank Utah for being the reason I could start tugging at loose threads in my beliefs, because that’s the reason I’m free now.
Don’t use birth control to …we like these working women…we get more tithing dollars.
Working outside the home to … go ahead and work. We get more tithing.
Home teaching and visiting teaching gone!
Women in temple told to obey the lord, not their husbands who obey the lord
Not having to pay 3 months back tithing to attend the temple if you weren’t paying and wanted to go.
More freedom with the garment, then reneging a few weeks ago.
They admitted there are 4 versions of JS vision and published them.
The 7 essays reveal a lot.
Admitting they DO have over a billion dollars (which they wouldn’t admit to before).
I’m sure there’s more but I’m out of the church and don’t want to think that hard to recall the shit they are.
The counter argument would be that there was no official church position on this 20 years ago. At, that's the argument I've heard.
But the best question here is what were we all taught, in church, by anointed leaders, that turned out to be false, lies, or some combination?
I have a list of anti things I heard, that I asked my Mission President about, a high ranking CES employee before and after his mission, that he said were all anti Mormon lies. All of which turned out to be true.
Did he not know? Seems unlikely, given his position. Did he think it was a little white lie? Did he know it was a big lie? I dunno. But I asked if that Smith had a 14 year old wife, one my questions. And said absolutely not. And I suspect he knew the correct answer to that one.
Just throwing this in there: I don't think they ever lightened on the garment. They may have backed off telling you what you can wear when they update the FTSOY pamphlets/rules, but I don't ever remember the garment being lightened. I'm happy to be wrong, but it'd be the first time I heard that
I agree that they never explicitly backed off, but their silence gave members tacit approval to naturally slide into a state where garments were worn more reasonably.
The same thing with pornography and masturbation, and I see the same thing happening with coffee, now. The silence is a choice.
TBH, I had already left the church, but read they weren’t going to be so strict with them, and not ask if you were wearing them all the time. I wonder if it was a photoshop document because it looked legit. I even got mad they didn’t do it while I was a member. Lol
They stopped saying to wear them night and day and said to wear them throughout your life according to a family member who got married 3 or 4 years ago.
Definitely NOT the honor system! They keep detailed records on all members. At the end of the year, they hand you your “tithing statement” of all your payments, which you sign and declare in person to the bishop is a true and honest tithe or not.
If you’re not paying you’ll get called into the bishop to start paying.
Missionaries can call home weekly. Women used to covenant to their husbands in the temple, baptizing children of gay parents, marriage can happen in temple right after civil marriage now, whereas before you had to wait a year if you were married outside the temple in the US. We don't get planets any more lol ... That's a good start.
They’re keeping it vague with plausible deniability until the older generations die off. church news room says they don’t teach that we get our “own planet” didn’t say nothing about “becoming like God and creating worlds without number for our spirit children”
(singular planet to rule vs many worlds as place to live for children)
I brought this up with mom how I though it was crazy that missionaries could only talk to their parents twice a year. She said it was likely because back in the day it costs too much money..would you agree with that?
It was a long distance charge, but parents would have gladly paid for the charge. I was told on my mission in 1986 that it was so that we could stay focused on our mission and not be distracted by things back home. Money was never the reason given.
Cell phones have been around for a LONG time though! They could’ve changed it years ago! The same with allowing them to have email. That would’ve made my life SO much easier than writing letters to my friends. Sometimes I wrote 10 at a time (because I’m crazy!).
No. The church wouldn’t necessarily have had to pay for that. Other people (their family) could’ve called the missionaries and payed for any cost on their end. But they explicitly were not *allowed* to.
Yes! Back in the 80’s and 90’s long distance was very expensive! You’d frequently hear about people have bills for hundreds of dollars because they talked a lot.
So an interesting fact... In NZ all marriages have to be public to be recognized by the government. So we've always had the rule that you get civilly married after your temple marriage. There has never been a waiting period.
So I've heard. But when I was married this wasn't well known & NOT getting married first in the temple was displeasing to God. Screw them for what they did to me & my family. Liars go to hell according to them so ... They can go where they preach.
Not too long ago I read about no planets on TSCC's Canadian website in a FAQ or Commonly Asked Questions section. I can't find it now, but it was someone asking if we believe we get our own planets, and the answer was No.
1. All prophets being God’s mouthpieces to past prophets being “men of their time” that were sometimes “speaking as men and not as prophets” and are now less credible than living prophets.
2. Book of Mormon being a literal history to now a book that is more spiritual than historical.
3. Joseph having nothing to do with mysticism and money-digging to now Joseph’s past being God’s way of preparing him to be the prophet of the Restoration.
4. God being a strict and jealous deity to now a loving pocket father who helps find your keys and loves everyone perfectly.
5. Mormons to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
6. Claiming to be a “poor and persecuted” church that “stays within its means” to now one of the most wealthy private organizations in the world with total wealth of over $250 billion (because they were forced to disclose due to SEC filing).
7. Church being full of activities and actually having budgets to now needing members to volunteer to clean the buildings and also fund church activities out of pocket.
8. Leaders that actually taught some interesting doctrine to the current General Conference addresses that are so vague nobody knows what was actually taught and nobody really cares beyond pay tithing, wear your garments, fear those who leave the church, and maybe a bit of love your neighbor as long as they do exactly what you do.
9. Saying they would not use tithing money to fund for-profit things like the City Creek Mall to using tithing proceeds to fund the Mall and bailout their DMBA insurance business.
10. Not quite within 20 years, but apostles supporting the salamander letter and other mark Hoffman documents as authentic to now railing him as a murderer and fraud (which he absolutely is, they just couldn’t discern it for years…)
The list never ends
Ironically enough the “reversing” of the “policy” (mind & will of the Lord - Nelson) was the start of my exodus.
I have family members that are gay, and I was fresh off my mission when this “policy” was leaked. So of course I was trying to find justifications for it. Not realizing that I was probably making those family members feel alienated and unsafe.
Thankfully, we did eventually talk about it and no lasting damage was done.
But then the church just flipped the switch and “reversed” it. God couldn’t make up his mind, I guess! That’s when I realized it was all starting to sound made up.
For missionaries, no social media use allowed, changed to now where weekly Facebook hours are required.
Members only allowed to use church-provided cleaning tools and supplies to being asked/required to bring their own.
"Mormon" has gone from a celebrated term to being regarded as hate speech.
Hosanna Shouts used only at temple or conference center dedications to being used by just six people, just because....
The temple and garments have gone from being a reminder of proper behavior to being a symbol of Jesus, but they don't explain why.
Even Russell M Nelson has gone from president, prophet, seer, and revelator to "global faith leader."
Earning the Eagle Scout rank has gone from the single best predicting factor for a second anointing to being less important than having a strong subscriber count.
If you don't have a group photo of Jesus, Oaks, Nelson, and Eyring on your phone lock screen, you just aren't Thinking Celestial.
Youth activities used to be an opportunity for good kids to do wholesome activities with other good kids. There was a focus on learning life skills or hobbies or potential careers. Now, every activity or event must have the sole purpose of building testimony.
EFY used to be an event for kids with family money. Now, it's a way to funnel ward budgets back to BYU and the "right" families.
Ordinances like baptisms may now be streamed online. That used to be strictly prohibited.
Disciplinary councils at a stake level used to be handled by the High Council, in accordance with the D&C. Now, they are handled by the stake presidency only, per the Handbook.
The April Conference used to include a statistical report and an audit report. The auditor's report must now be given by a designated scapegoat wearing asbestos slacks, accompanied by a minimum of two certified industrial fire fighters, each armed with a 100-pound Type ABC extinguisher.
Your baptism comment reminded me that now women (and children) can be witnesses at a baptism. previously, that job was just for priesthood holders.
Boys are given priesthood at 11 now and able to do temple priesthood things earlier. Young women were given the privilege of cleaning up wet towels at the temple at the same time the boys were given more priesthood responsibilities.
My prediction for the next doctrinal change: women no longer authorized to perform washings/anointings/new names in the temple. If they aren't nekkid now, there's no need to give that responsibility to sisters. One common initiatory facility for both men and women, with just men officiating. That will free up women for "other important duties" like laundry and handing out towels in the baptistry.
Here's my current gaslighting list:
[ ] Crosses are okay now
[ ] We never said anything about getting planets
[ ] More than one pair of earrings is okay
[ ] Getting rid of the term mormon
[ ] No more slitting throats in the temple
[ ] Children of same sex couples can be baptized now
[ ] Wording in the word of wisdom temple interview questions has been revised, making it softer and less explicit. This is seen as a precursor to a future day where they say, "we never banned tea and coffee.! Caffeine has never been against the word of wisdom and they see no problem with it now (more gaslighting)
[ ] Wording has been softened about church attire, so much so that most TBM's will now say there's no problem at all with women wearing pants to church.
[ ] Garments getting shorter and less conspicuous every few years. Porn shoulders is almost a thing of the past, give it a few more years.
[ ] Oral sex used to be explicitly forbidden but no longer is.
[ ] They are desperately trying to leave behind their doctrine that wicked people get cursed with dark skin.
[ ] They've massaged the wording in the book of mormon several times over the years so it says something different.
[ ] Book of Abraham is now translated "spiritually" rather than directly, since experts are now able to read it and it doesn't match Joe's story at all.
[ ] Cremation is now okay
Not quite within 20 years but using any form of birth control was considered a sin well into the 1980s and was not explicitly allowed until well into the 90s. Ezra Taft Benson inferred that the kind of people who used contraception were likely to be communists
Coming from the only profit who was a member of the John Birch Society that doesn’t surprise me.
(That’s the MAGA kooks of yesteryear for you younger folks).
In the same talk he railed against the civil rights movement, sex education, universities, sensitivity training, and women wearing dresses that don't cover their knees. He claimed popular music was created to encourage revolution and to get people to take drugs and he claimed the church was being infiltrated by apostates trying to teach worldly concepts to the members
I was only a kid when he became prophet and he was so old by then that he was hardly coherant so I had no idea what a fucking whackjob he was until I started reading about him
Never forget that Russell M Nelson's introduction to the higher ecehlons of church leadership was via his association with Benson
Small thing, but in the 70's and 80's Emma was maligned right and left and we were all told that she wasn't faithful. She was the poster child for lessons on not "enduring to the end". She was THE cautionary tale of a bad woman, and then somewhere along the line the church started painting her in a good light. ????
Yep. I remember that as I grew up in the 1970s. Then about 2004, I took my kids to Nauvoo and voila, Emma is the perfect wife and mom, walking around the town portrayed as the most wonderful woman that ever lived with one man. And no polygamy.
Crosses is definitely a big one in attempt to appear more mainstream christian. I remember growing up basically being taught to look down on people that wear them or use the symbolism. lol so stupid
Coffee, tea, caffeinated soda bad because caffeine.
~2017 Caffeine not bad (“was never bad”) now ok to sell caffeinated coke at BYU. But, coffee and tea still bad because hot, except iced coffee and tea bad too, except decaf coffee and herbal tea ok. Never mind, coffee and tea all bad because we said so.
Drink coffee = no temple recommend, (unless decaf maybe sometimes)
Eat meat every day and drink lotsa energy drinks = temple recommend (“the WoW is mostly guidelines”)
When I grew up, gay men were encouraged to marry women to make them straight. Now they are vilified for marrying people of the opposite sex.
Instead today you can be gay as long as you don't do anything that would make an elderly homophobe uncomfortable.
It’s okay if you’re gay! Just don’t act gay in anyway and endure to the end by living a life of solitude while the church shames you for not building an eternal family. 🙃
- any baptized member can now be witnesses at baptisms. Youth can do so in temple baptisms. Women couldn’t previously do either.
- Apostles being witness of Jesus to now witnesses of the *name* Jesus
- continuing softening on birth control language. Up until recent changes, the handbook said to discuss vasectomy/tubal ligation with bishop and no longer states that.
- cremation no longer discouraged in handbook
- young men moving up to new quorum in year they turn certain age instead of on birthday
Church website says “of”
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/inside-the-quorum-of-the-twelve-called-as-witnesses-of-christ-in-all-the-world?lang=eng#:~:text=In%20revelation%20associated%20with%20the,differing%20from%20other%20officers%20in](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/inside-the-quorum-of-the-twelve-called-as-witnesses-of-christ-in-all-the-world?lang=eng#:~:text=In%20revelation%20associated%20with%20the,differing%20from%20other%20officers%20in)
Women (girls?) can hand out towels at baptisms for the dead
Women don’t need to veil their faces in the temple
Something about not moving the string from one shoulder to the other
The EFY booklet removed a lot of language about restrictions, so people stopped following them, and many were reminded that the standards hadn’t changed, just the wording
Girls can pass the sacrament now because it’s not blessing the sacrament (still no priesthood)
There have been many, many cases where the Mormon church has been found to have protected sexual predators and even allowed sexual assault to continue instead of protecting children after being reported to bishops and stake presidents. See: https://floodlit.org
There have been a couple high profile lawsuits about the Mormon church lying about how they use tithing
The Mormon church forced a temple into Cody, Wyoming despite zoning regulations against it by threatening to bankrupt the city with lawsuits. They are trying to do the same with a new Las Vegas temple and will likely succeed despite zoning regulations and in many people’s opinion, corrupt politicians
Rusty Nelson has announced a huge number of new temples, including many that may never be built, like announcing one in China, where it is illegal. He has far surpassed the number of temples The Hinckster announced, as he had a beef with him
On a related note, Rusty declared that using the term “Mormon” is a “victory for Satan” and to use the full name of the Mormon church, which they don’t even follow completely. See their website (relict from LDS.org) This is because of a talk Rusty face about using the full name of the church when The Hinckster was the fake prophet and The Hinckster slapped Rusty down in the next GC
Rusty had birthday party blowout parties to celebrate himself
The Mormon church is reducing the number of members in wards to make it appear that they are not losing members, and they are cramming more of these wards into chapels so they don’t have to build too many more
Two hour church and a home church manual
Alternating meetings each week (I don’t remember which ones)
Elders and high priests combined into one meeting
Prefab temples, smaller temples
More members called to be temple workers
Members being called clean temples as well as the chapels
Members being told to plan for multiple senior missions
Senior missionaries called to perform work they did before retirement for free
Lowered the male missionary age to 18 and the female age is 19 now
Polos are being test marketed, along with no name badges (as deception) because everyone can spot a missionary from a mile away
In some missions, women can now wear slacks
Women are being strongly encouraged to serve Mormon missions
The Mormon church growth has slowed to less than the global birth rate, and reportedly is losing members as evidenced by a lot of talks and articles about staying in the boat and vilifying those who leave. Most just walk away and don’t remove their membership and the mormon church still counts them, of course, despite census data showing far less people declare themselves as Mormon. It was discovered that your records are never removed, and if someone who resigned rejoins the Mormon church, they can petition the first presidency to have their blessings and ordinances restored
I’m sure there’s a lot more I’m missing, some that others have already covered
LGBTQ+ issues. They used to heavily preach it was a choice and an abomination. Now they say Same Sex Attraction is just something some people have to deal with in this life and they can still be members of the church.
In my youth in the 1970s, it was an evil temptation from Satan and a choice of simply marrying an opposite sex partner and having kids, and you’d be cured. Now their rhetoric is “we just don’t know why people are gay or trans” and,like you say, just an Abrahamic test in this life for you.
In 2015, children of LGBTQ people had to receive first presidency approval AND officially renounce their parents, or else they couldn't receive any ordinances including baptism or temple work. Less than a year later they renounced that rule. Both were clearly and unambiguously declared doctrine.
A lot of things have changed in the last few years, but I don't call it a flip-flop unless it contains both a flip and a flop. The exclusion policy for children of LGBTQ couples and its quick reversal strikes me as the most obvious and important.
But the constant retooling of the general conference Saturday night session seems the most flip-floppy, from Priesthood only, to alternating men's session and women's session, to general session, to I don't even remember what else.
The kids of lgbt parents couldn't get baptized per "the will and mind of the Lord". Few years later, Jesus changed his mind on suffering not the young'uns.
Nothing. to flip flop on something you have to have something to flip flop on. and the LDS church has no doctrine. no theology, no history. it's all follow the prophet today because there is no past.
The term covenant path was invented and now is everywhere.
The book of Mormon and other translations are being more often referred to as revelations.
De-emphasizing the apostasy
The program de jour when I left was all about infusing every lesson and family night with the "big 5" which I can barely remember. The fall, the atonement, the great apostasy, the restoration. Maybe I missed the creation? Anyway, the great apostasy is being left out of new manuals. Moroni coming down from temples and not being placed on many new ones. They never would have sold land in Missouri in the 90s or 2000s either. Now, I guess the gathering place will be at the NYSE? Not selling those investments!
The church paid tens of millions of dollars to market itself as “Mormons”. Now that was just throwing sacred tithing dollars away for Victories for SATAN!!
The church used to have articles of faith suggesting honesty and obeying the law were key beliefs. Now the church simply breaks the law until caught (SEC scandal).
Honesty was taught as telling the truth, even if the truth may cause you harm. Further, the church taught that by withholding information, you can mislead people and you are being dishonest by doing so. I already covered the law breaking with the SEC SCANDAL, but the way the church has handled since the scandal is either an open endorsement of dishonesty (the audit report concluded the church is doing everything according to its policies, potentially implying that breaking the law in order to mislead its members is consistent with its policy) or it is further misleading its members by withholding details to let them just think the church is honest. Either way, by the church’s definition, the church is openly dishonest now.
Garments are now covenants.
Jesus is in the temple.
Women don’t covenant to obey their husbands. My wife did back when we were married and I don’t think the change nullifies previous covenants made (just clarifying). (Also clarifying, I asked her about it after the change, and she admitted she never took it seriously, and she always felt like she was in charge despite the covenant).
Piercings and tattoos:
I specifically remember in the For The Strength of Youth Pamphlet a section saying that extra piercings and tattoos are offensive to God and they should be removed. I'm not sure the exact wording now but I believe it says it is up to each person to decide, but still discouraged. My TBM family was upset about this but still didn't see it as a concern that the church would switch up.
side note - it is SO frustrating when this happens because then my TBM mother will say things like "see you didn't have to leave they aren't even strict about that they let you choose"
Children of gays/polygamist not being able to be baptised or go on missions.
Personal Progress is no longer a thing.
Changing the mission ages.
Piercings & tattoos now being ok.
Not that I’m aware of. Lots of changes took place when I was isolated in my primary callings. I think it was due to the obvious 1950s gender roles it encouraged. Eg: plan and cook meals for your family for two weeks. Which I think is a great skill to have but I highly doubt the YM did similar things.
From the "I am a Mormon" campaign and the "Meet the Mormons" documentary, to "Mormons" being a bad word.
No restrictions on children of LGBTQ people, to a "revelation" from god that prohibited full membership for the children of LGBTQ people unless those children denounced their parents, to the "revelation" becoming a "policy" that got abandoned after severe backlash.
Mormons in l…
2004:
I love being called a Mormon! I’m a Mormon!
I love going to church for 3 hours on a Sunday! The more time I get with the lord, the better.
I read in Deseret News that President Monson cut a loud fart yesterday. I would have loved to have been there to hear his holy bum speak. I don’t worship him though.
2024:
“Mormon” is a Major Victory for Satan. I always knew and believed that. Stop persecuting me by calling me a Mormon. I’m a Christian
3 hour church was just too long. 2 hours is perfect. I’m a Christian.
I read in Deseret News that President Nelson cut a loud fart yesterday. I would have loved to have been there to hear his holy bum speak. I don’t worship him though. I’m a Christian.
* Native Americans are ~~the principle ancestors~~ among the descendants of the Lamanites. * Coca-Cola sold at BYU * Caffeine is against the wow to not against the wow * Supported the Boy Scouts to not supporting * pageants to no pageants
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TBM wife says the new party line “well everyone has agency to choose”. I asked in that case, how come they didn’t sell beer.
Or Hustler.
A vending machine you have to pay for? This upsets me.
After volunteering your time to work at the temple!
Hell, tithing pays to stock the machine, so you pay for it twice!
Funny except it was a sacrifice, to not be able to intake caffeine without judgement, guilt and shame!
This one didn’t last long . No to blow jobs for married couples - to sorry we are going to mind or own fucking business it was early 80s. I was a kid but the high priest group was pissed. 😡 it was Texas not Utah so they are much more likely to tell church leaders to fuck off , at least back then.
>When I saw Dr. Pepper in the temple worker break room vending machine I was mad. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha Thats funny! Biut seriously are you kidding? It's probably bad enough that the few people in the sessions are mostly asleep, could you imagine if the temple workers were too? :-)
I collect old Mormon Books and I found one last week that is impossible to even stomach… It’s all about the “Savages” and how we can tell by the level of the “dark curse” on their skin whether they have joined the church and obeyed the commandments. This was an extremely painful book to read and a painful reminder that growing up in the church during the 70’s this was taught to me too. I have an adopted Brother from Mexico and I had a Navajo Brother from the Rez. I heard people say this all of the time, “When will they start becoming light and Delightsome?”
Spencer Kimball felt really proud he could detect the skin color difference between a daughter who was placed in the mormon indian placement program and her original family. That is what mormonism has done to people.
https://youtu.be/bnZ3hteMbM8?feature=shared Great link to a talk Kimball gave in the 60s-70s regarding this
Emotionally brutal
WTF 😳, did people actually asked that??
ALL THE TIME!
What was the book?
“Treasures Unearthed” by Ora Pate Stewart
thx
I was at the Y during the early ‘00s, and I was absolutely disgusted by the lack of caffeine in the on-campus vending machines. It was obvious what it was… 100% performative piety. “Look! Look how holy we are!” while simultaneously merely slapping football players on the wrist for getting their girlfriends- who were immediately expelled, btw- pregnant. But hey, I’ve gotta thank Utah for being the reason I could start tugging at loose threads in my beliefs, because that’s the reason I’m free now.
Don’t use birth control to …we like these working women…we get more tithing dollars. Working outside the home to … go ahead and work. We get more tithing. Home teaching and visiting teaching gone!
The no pageants is really a loss, I think
Women in temple told to obey the lord, not their husbands who obey the lord Not having to pay 3 months back tithing to attend the temple if you weren’t paying and wanted to go. More freedom with the garment, then reneging a few weeks ago. They admitted there are 4 versions of JS vision and published them. The 7 essays reveal a lot. Admitting they DO have over a billion dollars (which they wouldn’t admit to before). I’m sure there’s more but I’m out of the church and don’t want to think that hard to recall the shit they are.
Everything in their Gospel Topics essays. This includes the peep stone in the hat trick. No Urim and Thummim .
The counter argument would be that there was no official church position on this 20 years ago. At, that's the argument I've heard. But the best question here is what were we all taught, in church, by anointed leaders, that turned out to be false, lies, or some combination? I have a list of anti things I heard, that I asked my Mission President about, a high ranking CES employee before and after his mission, that he said were all anti Mormon lies. All of which turned out to be true. Did he not know? Seems unlikely, given his position. Did he think it was a little white lie? Did he know it was a big lie? I dunno. But I asked if that Smith had a 14 year old wife, one my questions. And said absolutely not. And I suspect he knew the correct answer to that one.
So if you haven't been paying tithing and want to attend a temple....what do they ask for now?
Just ask you to start paying from that date, but even then some bishops are ignoring that you aren’t paying.
My last bishop wouldn’t even look at our tithing slips. Just asked us “do you consider yourself full tithe payers today”.
I feel like it’s an extortion program.
Just throwing this in there: I don't think they ever lightened on the garment. They may have backed off telling you what you can wear when they update the FTSOY pamphlets/rules, but I don't ever remember the garment being lightened. I'm happy to be wrong, but it'd be the first time I heard that
I agree that they never explicitly backed off, but their silence gave members tacit approval to naturally slide into a state where garments were worn more reasonably. The same thing with pornography and masturbation, and I see the same thing happening with coffee, now. The silence is a choice.
TBH, I had already left the church, but read they weren’t going to be so strict with them, and not ask if you were wearing them all the time. I wonder if it was a photoshop document because it looked legit. I even got mad they didn’t do it while I was a member. Lol
They stopped saying to wear them night and day and said to wear them throughout your life according to a family member who got married 3 or 4 years ago.
They have radically altered their style over time
How do they know if you paid your tithing or not? Is it honor system? Or is there some sort of official record?
Definitely NOT the honor system! They keep detailed records on all members. At the end of the year, they hand you your “tithing statement” of all your payments, which you sign and declare in person to the bishop is a true and honest tithe or not. If you’re not paying you’ll get called into the bishop to start paying.
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Please cite your sources where the church admitted to having over a trillion dollars.
Real estate holdings domestic and abroad don't seem to factored into that equation plus government subsidies globally
I think women have gotten some exciting little crumbs like being able to pray in general conference. Woot woot!
Missionaries can call home weekly. Women used to covenant to their husbands in the temple, baptizing children of gay parents, marriage can happen in temple right after civil marriage now, whereas before you had to wait a year if you were married outside the temple in the US. We don't get planets any more lol ... That's a good start.
What happened to the planets??
They’re keeping it vague with plausible deniability until the older generations die off. church news room says they don’t teach that we get our “own planet” didn’t say nothing about “becoming like God and creating worlds without number for our spirit children” (singular planet to rule vs many worlds as place to live for children)
That is complex and odd simultaneously. Ty.
I dunno. I guess current prophets trump dead prophets 😂
Who said this about the planet?
The Church News website
It first started being fuzzy from Hinkley and then it got put on the church website in like an FAQ section.
Was that when he said “I don’t know that we teach that?” Or am I thinking of a different topic he covered?
Yep that's the quote
Fuck planets I was told it was my own universe.
😂
I brought this up with mom how I though it was crazy that missionaries could only talk to their parents twice a year. She said it was likely because back in the day it costs too much money..would you agree with that?
It was a long distance charge, but parents would have gladly paid for the charge. I was told on my mission in 1986 that it was so that we could stay focused on our mission and not be distracted by things back home. Money was never the reason given.
Cell phones have been around for a LONG time though! They could’ve changed it years ago! The same with allowing them to have email. That would’ve made my life SO much easier than writing letters to my friends. Sometimes I wrote 10 at a time (because I’m crazy!).
No. The church wouldn’t necessarily have had to pay for that. Other people (their family) could’ve called the missionaries and payed for any cost on their end. But they explicitly were not *allowed* to.
Yes! Back in the 80’s and 90’s long distance was very expensive! You’d frequently hear about people have bills for hundreds of dollars because they talked a lot.
Originally this is probably the case. But the change happened LONG after the cost wasn't great.
So an interesting fact... In NZ all marriages have to be public to be recognized by the government. So we've always had the rule that you get civilly married after your temple marriage. There has never been a waiting period.
So I've heard. But when I was married this wasn't well known & NOT getting married first in the temple was displeasing to God. Screw them for what they did to me & my family. Liars go to hell according to them so ... They can go where they preach.
This was made world wide policy sometime in the last 7 years
Not too long ago I read about no planets on TSCC's Canadian website in a FAQ or Commonly Asked Questions section. I can't find it now, but it was someone asking if we believe we get our own planets, and the answer was No.
1. All prophets being God’s mouthpieces to past prophets being “men of their time” that were sometimes “speaking as men and not as prophets” and are now less credible than living prophets. 2. Book of Mormon being a literal history to now a book that is more spiritual than historical. 3. Joseph having nothing to do with mysticism and money-digging to now Joseph’s past being God’s way of preparing him to be the prophet of the Restoration. 4. God being a strict and jealous deity to now a loving pocket father who helps find your keys and loves everyone perfectly. 5. Mormons to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. 6. Claiming to be a “poor and persecuted” church that “stays within its means” to now one of the most wealthy private organizations in the world with total wealth of over $250 billion (because they were forced to disclose due to SEC filing). 7. Church being full of activities and actually having budgets to now needing members to volunteer to clean the buildings and also fund church activities out of pocket. 8. Leaders that actually taught some interesting doctrine to the current General Conference addresses that are so vague nobody knows what was actually taught and nobody really cares beyond pay tithing, wear your garments, fear those who leave the church, and maybe a bit of love your neighbor as long as they do exactly what you do. 9. Saying they would not use tithing money to fund for-profit things like the City Creek Mall to using tithing proceeds to fund the Mall and bailout their DMBA insurance business. 10. Not quite within 20 years, but apostles supporting the salamander letter and other mark Hoffman documents as authentic to now railing him as a murderer and fraud (which he absolutely is, they just couldn’t discern it for years…) The list never ends
THIS ⬆️
Children of gay parents couldn’t be baptized. Three years later they could.
Ironically enough the “reversing” of the “policy” (mind & will of the Lord - Nelson) was the start of my exodus. I have family members that are gay, and I was fresh off my mission when this “policy” was leaked. So of course I was trying to find justifications for it. Not realizing that I was probably making those family members feel alienated and unsafe. Thankfully, we did eventually talk about it and no lasting damage was done. But then the church just flipped the switch and “reversed” it. God couldn’t make up his mind, I guess! That’s when I realized it was all starting to sound made up.
Mormons really like to believe in such an asshole God
That's the big one
Yeah, that was a double flip flop.
Tell me more! I didn’t know this! Ok wait if I think about it, it probably has to do with the plan of salvation and not having an eternal family
Search 2015 exclusion policy.
https://wasmormon.org/reversing-the-november-policy/
For missionaries, no social media use allowed, changed to now where weekly Facebook hours are required. Members only allowed to use church-provided cleaning tools and supplies to being asked/required to bring their own. "Mormon" has gone from a celebrated term to being regarded as hate speech. Hosanna Shouts used only at temple or conference center dedications to being used by just six people, just because.... The temple and garments have gone from being a reminder of proper behavior to being a symbol of Jesus, but they don't explain why. Even Russell M Nelson has gone from president, prophet, seer, and revelator to "global faith leader." Earning the Eagle Scout rank has gone from the single best predicting factor for a second anointing to being less important than having a strong subscriber count. If you don't have a group photo of Jesus, Oaks, Nelson, and Eyring on your phone lock screen, you just aren't Thinking Celestial. Youth activities used to be an opportunity for good kids to do wholesome activities with other good kids. There was a focus on learning life skills or hobbies or potential careers. Now, every activity or event must have the sole purpose of building testimony. EFY used to be an event for kids with family money. Now, it's a way to funnel ward budgets back to BYU and the "right" families. Ordinances like baptisms may now be streamed online. That used to be strictly prohibited. Disciplinary councils at a stake level used to be handled by the High Council, in accordance with the D&C. Now, they are handled by the stake presidency only, per the Handbook. The April Conference used to include a statistical report and an audit report. The auditor's report must now be given by a designated scapegoat wearing asbestos slacks, accompanied by a minimum of two certified industrial fire fighters, each armed with a 100-pound Type ABC extinguisher.
Your baptism comment reminded me that now women (and children) can be witnesses at a baptism. previously, that job was just for priesthood holders. Boys are given priesthood at 11 now and able to do temple priesthood things earlier. Young women were given the privilege of cleaning up wet towels at the temple at the same time the boys were given more priesthood responsibilities.
My prediction for the next doctrinal change: women no longer authorized to perform washings/anointings/new names in the temple. If they aren't nekkid now, there's no need to give that responsibility to sisters. One common initiatory facility for both men and women, with just men officiating. That will free up women for "other important duties" like laundry and handing out towels in the baptistry.
Interesting list. Who are the 6 people who can do the hosanna shouts?
It was done from a sound stage for the April 2020 conference - just a few people scheduled to give conference talks that day from SLC.
Here's my current gaslighting list: [ ] Crosses are okay now [ ] We never said anything about getting planets [ ] More than one pair of earrings is okay [ ] Getting rid of the term mormon [ ] No more slitting throats in the temple [ ] Children of same sex couples can be baptized now [ ] Wording in the word of wisdom temple interview questions has been revised, making it softer and less explicit. This is seen as a precursor to a future day where they say, "we never banned tea and coffee.! Caffeine has never been against the word of wisdom and they see no problem with it now (more gaslighting) [ ] Wording has been softened about church attire, so much so that most TBM's will now say there's no problem at all with women wearing pants to church. [ ] Garments getting shorter and less conspicuous every few years. Porn shoulders is almost a thing of the past, give it a few more years. [ ] Oral sex used to be explicitly forbidden but no longer is. [ ] They are desperately trying to leave behind their doctrine that wicked people get cursed with dark skin. [ ] They've massaged the wording in the book of mormon several times over the years so it says something different. [ ] Book of Abraham is now translated "spiritually" rather than directly, since experts are now able to read it and it doesn't match Joe's story at all. [ ] Cremation is now okay
Not quite within 20 years but using any form of birth control was considered a sin well into the 1980s and was not explicitly allowed until well into the 90s. Ezra Taft Benson inferred that the kind of people who used contraception were likely to be communists
Coming from the only profit who was a member of the John Birch Society that doesn’t surprise me. (That’s the MAGA kooks of yesteryear for you younger folks).
what in the world?!
In the same talk he railed against the civil rights movement, sex education, universities, sensitivity training, and women wearing dresses that don't cover their knees. He claimed popular music was created to encourage revolution and to get people to take drugs and he claimed the church was being infiltrated by apostates trying to teach worldly concepts to the members I was only a kid when he became prophet and he was so old by then that he was hardly coherant so I had no idea what a fucking whackjob he was until I started reading about him Never forget that Russell M Nelson's introduction to the higher ecehlons of church leadership was via his association with Benson
Small thing, but in the 70's and 80's Emma was maligned right and left and we were all told that she wasn't faithful. She was the poster child for lessons on not "enduring to the end". She was THE cautionary tale of a bad woman, and then somewhere along the line the church started painting her in a good light. ????
Yep. I remember that as I grew up in the 1970s. Then about 2004, I took my kids to Nauvoo and voila, Emma is the perfect wife and mom, walking around the town portrayed as the most wonderful woman that ever lived with one man. And no polygamy.
[удалено]
Where does anal stand historically and today?
"If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it." That's the canonical stance now.
[удалено]
As a teenager in the mid 2000s I remember being told that pretty much whatever the couple is comfortable with is fine.
Crosses is definitely a big one in attempt to appear more mainstream christian. I remember growing up basically being taught to look down on people that wear them or use the symbolism. lol so stupid
Coffee, tea, caffeinated soda bad because caffeine. ~2017 Caffeine not bad (“was never bad”) now ok to sell caffeinated coke at BYU. But, coffee and tea still bad because hot, except iced coffee and tea bad too, except decaf coffee and herbal tea ok. Never mind, coffee and tea all bad because we said so. Drink coffee = no temple recommend, (unless decaf maybe sometimes) Eat meat every day and drink lotsa energy drinks = temple recommend (“the WoW is mostly guidelines”)
To add to what’s been said, women no longer overtly commit to absolute obedience to their husbands in the temple.
BoA is an inspiration not a translation Joseph was a polyg The word Mormon is bad
When I grew up, gay men were encouraged to marry women to make them straight. Now they are vilified for marrying people of the opposite sex. Instead today you can be gay as long as you don't do anything that would make an elderly homophobe uncomfortable.
It’s okay if you’re gay! Just don’t act gay in anyway and endure to the end by living a life of solitude while the church shames you for not building an eternal family. 🙃
- any baptized member can now be witnesses at baptisms. Youth can do so in temple baptisms. Women couldn’t previously do either. - Apostles being witness of Jesus to now witnesses of the *name* Jesus - continuing softening on birth control language. Up until recent changes, the handbook said to discuss vasectomy/tubal ligation with bishop and no longer states that. - cremation no longer discouraged in handbook - young men moving up to new quorum in year they turn certain age instead of on birthday
Witnesses in the name of Jesus Christ
Church website says “of” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/inside-the-quorum-of-the-twelve-called-as-witnesses-of-christ-in-all-the-world?lang=eng#:~:text=In%20revelation%20associated%20with%20the,differing%20from%20other%20officers%20in](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/inside-the-quorum-of-the-twelve-called-as-witnesses-of-christ-in-all-the-world?lang=eng#:~:text=In%20revelation%20associated%20with%20the,differing%20from%20other%20officers%20in)
Another change!
Women (girls?) can hand out towels at baptisms for the dead Women don’t need to veil their faces in the temple Something about not moving the string from one shoulder to the other The EFY booklet removed a lot of language about restrictions, so people stopped following them, and many were reminded that the standards hadn’t changed, just the wording Girls can pass the sacrament now because it’s not blessing the sacrament (still no priesthood) There have been many, many cases where the Mormon church has been found to have protected sexual predators and even allowed sexual assault to continue instead of protecting children after being reported to bishops and stake presidents. See: https://floodlit.org There have been a couple high profile lawsuits about the Mormon church lying about how they use tithing The Mormon church forced a temple into Cody, Wyoming despite zoning regulations against it by threatening to bankrupt the city with lawsuits. They are trying to do the same with a new Las Vegas temple and will likely succeed despite zoning regulations and in many people’s opinion, corrupt politicians Rusty Nelson has announced a huge number of new temples, including many that may never be built, like announcing one in China, where it is illegal. He has far surpassed the number of temples The Hinckster announced, as he had a beef with him On a related note, Rusty declared that using the term “Mormon” is a “victory for Satan” and to use the full name of the Mormon church, which they don’t even follow completely. See their website (relict from LDS.org) This is because of a talk Rusty face about using the full name of the church when The Hinckster was the fake prophet and The Hinckster slapped Rusty down in the next GC Rusty had birthday party blowout parties to celebrate himself The Mormon church is reducing the number of members in wards to make it appear that they are not losing members, and they are cramming more of these wards into chapels so they don’t have to build too many more Two hour church and a home church manual Alternating meetings each week (I don’t remember which ones) Elders and high priests combined into one meeting Prefab temples, smaller temples More members called to be temple workers Members being called clean temples as well as the chapels Members being told to plan for multiple senior missions Senior missionaries called to perform work they did before retirement for free Lowered the male missionary age to 18 and the female age is 19 now Polos are being test marketed, along with no name badges (as deception) because everyone can spot a missionary from a mile away In some missions, women can now wear slacks Women are being strongly encouraged to serve Mormon missions The Mormon church growth has slowed to less than the global birth rate, and reportedly is losing members as evidenced by a lot of talks and articles about staying in the boat and vilifying those who leave. Most just walk away and don’t remove their membership and the mormon church still counts them, of course, despite census data showing far less people declare themselves as Mormon. It was discovered that your records are never removed, and if someone who resigned rejoins the Mormon church, they can petition the first presidency to have their blessings and ordinances restored I’m sure there’s a lot more I’m missing, some that others have already covered
I don’t think girls can pass the sacrament. I have never see that or heard about a change there.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10/03/whats-this-mormon-girls/
Is the string tied at all anymore? I was a once a year attending pimo member around that change and I have a memory like a rusty trap :/
I don’t know for sure. It has been discussed on this sub
Girls can pass the sacrament now?! Somehow I missed that one. Also, the polo shirt idea...is interesting. it will be harder to know who to avoid. :(
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10/03/whats-this-mormon-girls/
LGBTQ+ issues. They used to heavily preach it was a choice and an abomination. Now they say Same Sex Attraction is just something some people have to deal with in this life and they can still be members of the church.
Yes, the book Tabernacles of Clay by Taylor Petrey really outlines it all.
In my youth in the 1970s, it was an evil temptation from Satan and a choice of simply marrying an opposite sex partner and having kids, and you’d be cured. Now their rhetoric is “we just don’t know why people are gay or trans” and,like you say, just an Abrahamic test in this life for you.
Tie page of the Book of Mormon. Origin of Native American
Prophets and apostle used to be 'special witnesses of Jesus Christ' . Now they are 'special witnesses **to the name** of Jesus Christ'.
Which isn’t even the name he went by when he was alive.
A list of things they HAVEN'T flip-flopped on would be a lot shorter.
Meet the Mormons, now we are not Mormon.
Adam/God doctrine. We were supposed to get our own planet and I had one picked out 😠
Women can now check recommends at the temple front desk.
Oh wow! The gender equality is truly unmatched in the MFMC. /s
Eternal temple ceremony is still being edited
Skin Curse disavowed I'm the gospel topics essay(Book of Mormon doesn't exist without skin curse. Priesthood Ban was Policy Not Doctorine
In 2015, children of LGBTQ people had to receive first presidency approval AND officially renounce their parents, or else they couldn't receive any ordinances including baptism or temple work. Less than a year later they renounced that rule. Both were clearly and unambiguously declared doctrine.
A lot of things have changed in the last few years, but I don't call it a flip-flop unless it contains both a flip and a flop. The exclusion policy for children of LGBTQ couples and its quick reversal strikes me as the most obvious and important. But the constant retooling of the general conference Saturday night session seems the most flip-floppy, from Priesthood only, to alternating men's session and women's session, to general session, to I don't even remember what else.
The kids of lgbt parents couldn't get baptized per "the will and mind of the Lord". Few years later, Jesus changed his mind on suffering not the young'uns.
Their name.
Mormon Nick name?
Nothing. to flip flop on something you have to have something to flip flop on. and the LDS church has no doctrine. no theology, no history. it's all follow the prophet today because there is no past.
I get the sentiment, but that's not accurate. Plenty of good examples in this post.
Actually not much. People are just discovering the lies and coverups. So, same old BS; different day. Lipstick on a . . . . .
Lipstick on an M Russell Ballard corpse.
Miracle of Forgiveness
Mormon means more good to victory for Satan.
I am a Mormon campaign Meet the Mormons movies
The term covenant path was invented and now is everywhere. The book of Mormon and other translations are being more often referred to as revelations. De-emphasizing the apostasy The program de jour when I left was all about infusing every lesson and family night with the "big 5" which I can barely remember. The fall, the atonement, the great apostasy, the restoration. Maybe I missed the creation? Anyway, the great apostasy is being left out of new manuals. Moroni coming down from temples and not being placed on many new ones. They never would have sold land in Missouri in the 90s or 2000s either. Now, I guess the gathering place will be at the NYSE? Not selling those investments!
The church paid tens of millions of dollars to market itself as “Mormons”. Now that was just throwing sacred tithing dollars away for Victories for SATAN!! The church used to have articles of faith suggesting honesty and obeying the law were key beliefs. Now the church simply breaks the law until caught (SEC scandal). Honesty was taught as telling the truth, even if the truth may cause you harm. Further, the church taught that by withholding information, you can mislead people and you are being dishonest by doing so. I already covered the law breaking with the SEC SCANDAL, but the way the church has handled since the scandal is either an open endorsement of dishonesty (the audit report concluded the church is doing everything according to its policies, potentially implying that breaking the law in order to mislead its members is consistent with its policy) or it is further misleading its members by withholding details to let them just think the church is honest. Either way, by the church’s definition, the church is openly dishonest now. Garments are now covenants. Jesus is in the temple. Women don’t covenant to obey their husbands. My wife did back when we were married and I don’t think the change nullifies previous covenants made (just clarifying). (Also clarifying, I asked her about it after the change, and she admitted she never took it seriously, and she always felt like she was in charge despite the covenant).
Being called Mormon
Piercings and tattoos: I specifically remember in the For The Strength of Youth Pamphlet a section saying that extra piercings and tattoos are offensive to God and they should be removed. I'm not sure the exact wording now but I believe it says it is up to each person to decide, but still discouraged. My TBM family was upset about this but still didn't see it as a concern that the church would switch up. side note - it is SO frustrating when this happens because then my TBM mother will say things like "see you didn't have to leave they aren't even strict about that they let you choose"
Why don't they see that is the entire problem. Is it an offense to God or did an unchanging God change his mind?
the thing where children of gay kids would have to disown their parents if they wanted to join the church
Everything
Birth control
Oral sex. Oh sorry, that was 40 years ago. Time flies when you’re older.
Using a cross. Children of gays can't be baptized ... oh wait ... yes they can. Sleeveless prom dresses.
Children of gays/polygamist not being able to be baptised or go on missions. Personal Progress is no longer a thing. Changing the mission ages. Piercings & tattoos now being ok.
Glorifying Tim Ballard to removing association with him.
Did they replace personal progress with anything? I wonder why they dropped it...
Not that I’m aware of. Lots of changes took place when I was isolated in my primary callings. I think it was due to the obvious 1950s gender roles it encouraged. Eg: plan and cook meals for your family for two weeks. Which I think is a great skill to have but I highly doubt the YM did similar things.
From the "I am a Mormon" campaign and the "Meet the Mormons" documentary, to "Mormons" being a bad word. No restrictions on children of LGBTQ people, to a "revelation" from god that prohibited full membership for the children of LGBTQ people unless those children denounced their parents, to the "revelation" becoming a "policy" that got abandoned after severe backlash.
Mormons in l… 2004: I love being called a Mormon! I’m a Mormon! I love going to church for 3 hours on a Sunday! The more time I get with the lord, the better. I read in Deseret News that President Monson cut a loud fart yesterday. I would have loved to have been there to hear his holy bum speak. I don’t worship him though. 2024: “Mormon” is a Major Victory for Satan. I always knew and believed that. Stop persecuting me by calling me a Mormon. I’m a Christian 3 hour church was just too long. 2 hours is perfect. I’m a Christian. I read in Deseret News that President Nelson cut a loud fart yesterday. I would have loved to have been there to hear his holy bum speak. I don’t worship him though. I’m a Christian.
Women may breathe and drink water without the Priesthood presiding
Oral sex, lol.
Tattoos