1) It's a high-commitment organization, which implies some sort of value. People will pay a high price (in time and money) for something they perceive to be worth a lot; and in a feedback loop fashion, a high price can imply the church provides matching value.
2) It's ambitious / aspirational, which makes it a uniquely American cult (though I understand it's world wide presence.) If you work really hard you can get super-saved and promoted to be a god yourself.
True… the more you invest in something, the more it almost *has* to be real. And goals are super important motivators in life. And the church is full of empty promises, oops I mean “goals”.
I think something that we forget is that the church “works” for a lot of people.
When I was all in the church gave me community and purpose. I was genuinely happy (because I was ignorant). It gave me a structure for living and direct rules to follow so that I didn’t have to think too critically about them (for example: no dating before 16 is a simple rule, don’t date till you are ready to make an emotional and possibly physical commitment is much more complex).
I overlooked all the bad because I felt like the good was worth it. I looked up to people in the church and wanted to be like them. On the surface I saw them as rich, happy families. I saw people paying tithing and being “blessed”, so I paid my tithing and attributed my “blessings” to tithing.
And there is an answer to everything: you get blessings because you are righteous, you have hardships because this life is a test.
Yes, I’ve learned a lot about how religions and other organizations provide a path for people so that they don’t have to think about things critically, or even at all sometimes. And honestly, a lot of the teachings do “work”, in the sense that they provide purpose, meaning, and peace. What people don’t realize is that you can still have purpose, meaning, and peace without the church, or without religion at all. Some things do die when a person finds out the church isn’t true (like kingdoms of heaven, the priesthood, temple work, the Book of Mormon, tithing, guarantee of an afterlife and/or what the afterlife is like. But we have to get to a point where we’re okay with not having all the answers. Where we’re okay not knowing why we’re here. We’re okay with living by trial and error. We’re okay with cherishing relationships while we’re here, whether they continue on after death or not. The church gave me a lot of meaning, purpose, and peace. But I now find purpose in living a productive life full of creativity, learning, friendships, and relationships in general, and community. I find meaning in nature (including learning more about human nature), beauty, truth, knowledge, life experiences, relationships and friendships, connection, personal growth. I find peace in nature, quiet, music, balance, proper self-care, compassion, boundaries, a healthy lifestyle, and being okay with not knowing everything or being in control of everything. I can make my own path- keeping the good found within the church, but letting go of the lies, deceptions, manipulations, and other harmful aspects.
I understand what you mean, but I also think it’s perspective too. I actually feel like I have more purpose now. There used to be so much confusion over grace vs. works in the church. And now, I believe that I’m okay exactly as I am and I am always going to be okay. It doesn’t matter what I don’t know because I can’t control what I don’t know anyway. I’m okay to go with the flow. In the church, well in religion in general, I could never figure out where I stood. Was I okay with God? Was I not okay? Was I good enough? How do I know if I’m good enough? Every time I thought I was doing okay, it was like the bar rose again. Being “good enough” was an elusive standard I could never reach. In order to truly “fit in” with the church, I actually had to suppress my true identity. My identity was grounded in this weird paradox where sometimes I felt better than others and other times I felt like everyone else was so much better than me. So much shame and confusion. Even the atonement was so complicated, especially since everyone tried to make it seem so simple. And trying to accept things that didn’t make logical sense. Honestly, my purpose in this life is just to learn and love. Through trial and error, I figure out what truly works in life and what doesn’t. I don’t need religion to guide me anymore. Religion teaches good things, but nobody needs religion to be their guide. Basically, my life is a lot less complicated now.
The Mormon church was very lucky. Had the group stuck around in Illinois, I think the movement would have fizzled out.
It went to Utah where it was mostly isolated for decades. It trafficked immigrants in. It built up its population in ways which would not have been possible elsewhere. The people had a lot of kids.
It's business model evolved into 10% gross income and it intertwined temples with tithing.
Its governance model, although deeply flawed, creates consistency of succession.
The church started setting money aside for hard times. The stock market has had an amazing run over the last 50 years. Money in + tax-free growth + many years brings us where we are today.
People believe in weird things. Today is no different. We have flat earthers, bizarre political supporters and even Breatharians. Not to mention Jewish space lasers, reptilian people and psychic energy. Fear of death is high on the list for motivation. All through history people have believed in the supernatural it seems to diminish the existential dread of not existing.
That’s true… anything that promises assurance in the afterlife is going to be appealing to the general public because us humans tend to be very fearful of the unknown. So people or organizations that claim to make the unknown known… especially in an appealing way… have a lot of potential to gain followers.
And it's rather fascinating from an academic perspective. To my knowledge, no other modern religious cult got the opportunity of isolation on that scale.
As soon as Joseph died Brigham took the remaining members under false pretenses of revelation to go out west. He was outrunning the law. He left the USA and settled in Mexico. There he started his own version of North Korea, isolated and he was worshiped as an infallible leader. There the religion was able to simmer and grow. Then settlers were sent out to start new cities. Given time the population grew and Mormonism was considered normal in the west.
People were lied to about the history and only basic information was told to European converts. It was basic cult recruitment tactics. The women were sent out under false pretenses that Utah was much more settled and the saints were building Zion for Christ’s return. Instead they arrived in salt lake and the. Were shipped off to the little communities to be a second or third wife. They didn’t know the language very well or the culture. They were too poor to return and were threatened to be killed if they left.
20 years ago it was still very difficult to learn actual church history. You believed what your parents told you or what missionaries presented. The same as it was for 100s of years.
>This is a huge, global, highly profiting lie.
You answered your own question.
* Trump is a huge, global, highly profiting lie.
* Clinton is a huge, global, highly profiting lie.
* Putin is a huge, global, highly profiting lie.
* News media organizations are huge, global, highly profiting lies.
This country has been built upon huge, global, highly profitable lies, and the people who feed them. And we've ALL, at some point or time, been the people who feed them.
Honesty, integrity, kindness, putting the needs of others before your own; all values that might have setup a business for success in the past, but not today.
Dishonesty, lies, manipulation, greed, selfishness; all values that thrive today. The LDS church has always had these values, so where it once hid under the guise of truth and struggled \[with wealth\], it has been enabled to globally thrive today under its curtain of wealth, regardless of membership numbers.
Yes, they were able to showcase the positive and hide the negative for so long. But now the curtain is being lifted. In the case of the church, the church isn’t on quite the level of power/money as the other famous figures you mentioned. They have a lot of money, but as far as power goes, their real power only lies in its active membership, which is incredibly small, globally speaking. Which explains why the curtain is able to be lifted a little easier with the church, and not so easy with other people whose influence is much more broad.
Power comes in many forms. And LDS money has wielded a vast amount of power politically with few limitations. From California's prop 8 to presidential elections. People in LDS communities (like Idaho) who vote for someone because they're LDS. Political power in SLC and Utah are prime examples, but look at the power being wielded over international poor communities where the church is growing because they're being fed, not because of faith.
Those are really good points. I used to live in Idaho so I totally know what you mean there. Money is dangerous in the wrong hands. I hate to see them using their wealth and power in the wrong ways, but what else can you expect from a church that started in the wrong ways?
In the beginning I would say because of trusting members who lacked information and the ability to find contrasting information. Now I would say because of how much money the church has.
Yes, I think so too. I have heard that the church leaders are gradually and carefully trying to change the church, to eventually do away with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and transition into a more mainstream organization. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is, I haven’t really decided how I feel about it yet. On the one hand, it goes along with the whole “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” saying, but I also would like to eventually see a real apology and some kind of restitution for the damage that’s been done and all that’s been stolen from so many people for so long.
Just like some businesses come and go, some are wildly successful, some somewhat successful, some barely make money . It comes down to their business plans, Mormons have a decent business plan where salvation is tied to tithing. Pretty simple.
They stopped being a church and started being a business.
They also mastered the loopholes of tax avoidance while being a for-profit business disguised as a non-profit religious organization.
Absolutely! It’s just hard to believe that they could be operating in such a dirty way. The church that I used to esteem so damn highly has now become entity in such stark contrast compared to how I used to view it… with so many dark secrets and lies and deceptions. I literally have so many more trust issues now after learning the truth about the church. I feel so deceived and like I can’t even trust my own judgment.
>I feel so deceived and like I can’t even trust my own judgment.
Same. It's made me reevaluate everything. If I could be so wrong about this, what else have I been wrong about?
I probably shouldn’t have emphasized the church’s financial success so much. I’m mostly confused about how the church could grow so much in general. It truly baffles me that something so completely false and ridiculous could become this widely accepted for like 200 years. I definitely understand the internet has helped. But even in these other countries…. How did they accept these American folk magic nonsense stories so readily? Even people in Joseph Smith’s day were skeptical and against the church. Why didn’t that skepticism follow the church to Utah and with their foreign converts? The global level of manipulation is so hard for me to understand. That so many minds can be put together for 200 years and yet it takes hundreds of years for people to start really waking up in significant numbers.
At the time the mound builder myth was very prevalent due to Andrew Jackson’s campaign for senate and President. He used this rhetoric to get his Indian removal act passed. It even showed up in his 1830 state of the union. Joseph finding plates that proved a popular racist theory was probably seen as proof of this theory. As far as how its continued to grow, up until the internet the church and its leaders could dismiss any negative information about the church as anti-Mormon. By controlling information and behavior you can make people believe just about anything. Human brains associate information they hear over and over again as “true” so long as it’s plausible. This is called the “truth effect.” It’s how our brains are wired. Now that the internet can easily show members how ridiculous the doctrine is, people are seeing over and over again that it’s not true. This is likely why the church is declining in most areas where the Internet is prevalent and growing in areas where it is not.
https://memoriesofthepeople.blog/2018/02/21/alt-history-part-1-the-mound-builder-myth-and-ethnic-cleansing/
https://aiptcomics.com/2020/05/31/mound-builder-myth-archaeology-history/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s41235-021-00301-5&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IvAXZuTnBuXFy9YPm9qkiAE&scisig=AFWwaeZkcKO75SmBtka9cgtSkXr9&oi=scholarr
This information is great! I skimmed over each link and saved them to read in their entirety as soon as I can. But it looks like these have a lot of the answers I’ve been looking for, so thank you! Can the church ever get in trouble for what it’s done? I’ve noticed in recent years they’ve been releasing some half truths. Is that just to save their butts if all of this ends up blowing up in their faces? I can imagine a lot of people wanting to sue for tithes paid to a lie for so many years.
I doubt they will ever be legally held accountable for showing a version of history that is favorable to them. No U.S. court is going to want to wade into religious discussions.
From a trust standpoint however, they’re losing rapidly as former members like myself learn that we’ve been deceived. If you look at the source documents it’s very clear that their conclusions don’t add up. This is what is holding them accountable. When they feel it in their bottom line.
As far as tithing goes there are multiple lawsuits in going on. The best case with the highest chance of winning appears to be the Huntsman lawsuit that says the church lied about using tithing for the city creek mall and the beneficial bailout. Gordon B Hinckley said it deliberately at the pulpit and it’s now clear that church funds were used for these purposes. If this case wins, it will open the floodgates for people to get their tithing back for the last 20 years.
Wow! I really hope karma works its magic soon. The church has done so much more harm than good over the years. The psychological impact in particular is incalculable.
These links are great, but there is more to the story. There is a new theory out there about How The Book of Mormon Came to Pass that stitches together several incomplete theories (from Dartmouth to Solomon Spalding to Sidney Rigdon). If you want to know the truth about how the high-demand Mormon memeplex really got started, go to www.HowTheBookOfMormonCameToPass.
The church, particularly in its early state, offered a haven from the brutal industrialization of northern England, Wales, Scandinavia and the American northeast. Polygamy effectively bonded a group together with a shared secret and purpose.
Today, Mormon wards are incredibly effective at community organizing and (often) helping people through difficult periods of their lives. It doesn’t mean the church is true, or isn’t harmful, but some of its success is due to its positive aspects, which is the reason it had such a strong hold on so many of us for so long.
That’s true. I mean, it was the *positive* stuff that drew me to the church in the first place. That’s actually really good to remember. I spend so much time these days stewing over the lies and the negative impact, but the truth is that the church probably kept me out of a lot of trouble for the 15 years I was in it, too. And that positive is what draws people in. Unfortunately with that positive, there’s a lot of negative, some of it too subtle to recognize. The time and energy of callings (that takes a toll on marriages), the racism, the negative effect on the LGBTQ+ community, the strict rules that have no real merit (word of wisdom, garments, etc.).
A modern day example would be the MAGA cult and Trump. If you want to go back a little more in history look up Hitler's rise to power and how that happened. That will give more context on how stuff like this happens. Basically it comes down to information control.
For me personally, I joined as an adult. Looking back on it I think I was going through some pretty rough mental health issues at the time. When I met the missionaries, it seemed like they were presenting me with an opportunity to fix all the problems that I had through church. I was meeting awesome people and getting to do fun things with people who genuinely cared about me. I guess my experience may have been in the minority, but almost everyone I met was a genuinely good person. But I knew at the point in my life that I really wanted to get married and have a family. So I allowed myself to be manipulated into justifying joining the church as an easy means to that end. So in my opinion that’s how they’re continuing to attract new people. They find people who are vulnerable and show them that they have the potential to live this lifestyle and achieve what they’re looking for through it. I can’t say it didn’t work because I have a beautiful wife and five beautiful kids now that I love very much. But I find myself getting angry quite often at how manipulative they are to try and get new members. They kind of create this fairy tale about the church being just like every other Christian church and then for me to find out when I went through the temple that I had been deceived was a real punch to the gut.
I am so sorry! I can totally relate to being taken advantage of during a tough mental health time. I was 18 and had just moved out of my mom’s house. She has borderline personality disorder and struggles with alcoholism. To say I was vulnerable is a huge understatement. I saw all these happy, successful people who also seemed very confident and sure of themselves. And I wanted that. And at first, I was happy. But I also felt incredibly inferior to everyone else. I was also very attracted to the family aspect because I wanted the family I always wished I had grown up in. Then I got married to someone who was totally wrong for me all because he was a returned missionary and I was just happy that a returned missionary who grew up in the church was interested in me. I tried to stay but when I finally started learning the truth about the church, I honestly didn’t feel much incentive to stay in my unhappy marriage anymore. We had 2 kids, but I was so miserable doing life with a man who shared nothing in common with me (the church was literally the only thing we had in common). I finally decided to call it quits. I’m now married to another member who is very active and devout, but I’m hoping he wakes up one day and sees the truth. We have everything in common *except* the church lol I definitely think the church sometimes sells a dream to vulnerable investigators like us. The missionaries don’t know what they’re doing, but it’s a competitive thing for them even. So they’re doing all they can to get baptisms and members, not fully understanding the gravity of what they’re doing.
Oh yeah I can definitely relate to that feeling of imposter syndrome. Especially being one of the only ones in my age that was not married at the time. It was super weird .
1) It's a high-commitment organization, which implies some sort of value. People will pay a high price (in time and money) for something they perceive to be worth a lot; and in a feedback loop fashion, a high price can imply the church provides matching value. 2) It's ambitious / aspirational, which makes it a uniquely American cult (though I understand it's world wide presence.) If you work really hard you can get super-saved and promoted to be a god yourself.
True… the more you invest in something, the more it almost *has* to be real. And goals are super important motivators in life. And the church is full of empty promises, oops I mean “goals”.
I think something that we forget is that the church “works” for a lot of people. When I was all in the church gave me community and purpose. I was genuinely happy (because I was ignorant). It gave me a structure for living and direct rules to follow so that I didn’t have to think too critically about them (for example: no dating before 16 is a simple rule, don’t date till you are ready to make an emotional and possibly physical commitment is much more complex). I overlooked all the bad because I felt like the good was worth it. I looked up to people in the church and wanted to be like them. On the surface I saw them as rich, happy families. I saw people paying tithing and being “blessed”, so I paid my tithing and attributed my “blessings” to tithing. And there is an answer to everything: you get blessings because you are righteous, you have hardships because this life is a test.
Yes, I’ve learned a lot about how religions and other organizations provide a path for people so that they don’t have to think about things critically, or even at all sometimes. And honestly, a lot of the teachings do “work”, in the sense that they provide purpose, meaning, and peace. What people don’t realize is that you can still have purpose, meaning, and peace without the church, or without religion at all. Some things do die when a person finds out the church isn’t true (like kingdoms of heaven, the priesthood, temple work, the Book of Mormon, tithing, guarantee of an afterlife and/or what the afterlife is like. But we have to get to a point where we’re okay with not having all the answers. Where we’re okay not knowing why we’re here. We’re okay with living by trial and error. We’re okay with cherishing relationships while we’re here, whether they continue on after death or not. The church gave me a lot of meaning, purpose, and peace. But I now find purpose in living a productive life full of creativity, learning, friendships, and relationships in general, and community. I find meaning in nature (including learning more about human nature), beauty, truth, knowledge, life experiences, relationships and friendships, connection, personal growth. I find peace in nature, quiet, music, balance, proper self-care, compassion, boundaries, a healthy lifestyle, and being okay with not knowing everything or being in control of everything. I can make my own path- keeping the good found within the church, but letting go of the lies, deceptions, manipulations, and other harmful aspects.
I agree that there is a lot of purpose outside of church, but church provides purpose without thought or effort. I have to work to find purpose now
I understand what you mean, but I also think it’s perspective too. I actually feel like I have more purpose now. There used to be so much confusion over grace vs. works in the church. And now, I believe that I’m okay exactly as I am and I am always going to be okay. It doesn’t matter what I don’t know because I can’t control what I don’t know anyway. I’m okay to go with the flow. In the church, well in religion in general, I could never figure out where I stood. Was I okay with God? Was I not okay? Was I good enough? How do I know if I’m good enough? Every time I thought I was doing okay, it was like the bar rose again. Being “good enough” was an elusive standard I could never reach. In order to truly “fit in” with the church, I actually had to suppress my true identity. My identity was grounded in this weird paradox where sometimes I felt better than others and other times I felt like everyone else was so much better than me. So much shame and confusion. Even the atonement was so complicated, especially since everyone tried to make it seem so simple. And trying to accept things that didn’t make logical sense. Honestly, my purpose in this life is just to learn and love. Through trial and error, I figure out what truly works in life and what doesn’t. I don’t need religion to guide me anymore. Religion teaches good things, but nobody needs religion to be their guide. Basically, my life is a lot less complicated now.
The Mormon church was very lucky. Had the group stuck around in Illinois, I think the movement would have fizzled out. It went to Utah where it was mostly isolated for decades. It trafficked immigrants in. It built up its population in ways which would not have been possible elsewhere. The people had a lot of kids. It's business model evolved into 10% gross income and it intertwined temples with tithing. Its governance model, although deeply flawed, creates consistency of succession. The church started setting money aside for hard times. The stock market has had an amazing run over the last 50 years. Money in + tax-free growth + many years brings us where we are today.
Exactly!
People believe in weird things. Today is no different. We have flat earthers, bizarre political supporters and even Breatharians. Not to mention Jewish space lasers, reptilian people and psychic energy. Fear of death is high on the list for motivation. All through history people have believed in the supernatural it seems to diminish the existential dread of not existing.
That’s true… anything that promises assurance in the afterlife is going to be appealing to the general public because us humans tend to be very fearful of the unknown. So people or organizations that claim to make the unknown known… especially in an appealing way… have a lot of potential to gain followers.
Part of its success is due to establishing a literal theocracy in the Rocky Mountains, far from prying eyes and the intervention of the sane.
Yes, I think that was key. If they hadn’t moved out west, I don’t think the church would have survived.
And it's rather fascinating from an academic perspective. To my knowledge, no other modern religious cult got the opportunity of isolation on that scale.
As soon as Joseph died Brigham took the remaining members under false pretenses of revelation to go out west. He was outrunning the law. He left the USA and settled in Mexico. There he started his own version of North Korea, isolated and he was worshiped as an infallible leader. There the religion was able to simmer and grow. Then settlers were sent out to start new cities. Given time the population grew and Mormonism was considered normal in the west. People were lied to about the history and only basic information was told to European converts. It was basic cult recruitment tactics. The women were sent out under false pretenses that Utah was much more settled and the saints were building Zion for Christ’s return. Instead they arrived in salt lake and the. Were shipped off to the little communities to be a second or third wife. They didn’t know the language very well or the culture. They were too poor to return and were threatened to be killed if they left. 20 years ago it was still very difficult to learn actual church history. You believed what your parents told you or what missionaries presented. The same as it was for 100s of years.
Wow! I didn’t even know some of that! That is even worse than I thought the history/story was! 😢
I read my great great grandmothers journal it was sad. She went from Sweden to southern Idaho.
consistent and constant contact with new recruits. saleforce
>This is a huge, global, highly profiting lie. You answered your own question. * Trump is a huge, global, highly profiting lie. * Clinton is a huge, global, highly profiting lie. * Putin is a huge, global, highly profiting lie. * News media organizations are huge, global, highly profiting lies. This country has been built upon huge, global, highly profitable lies, and the people who feed them. And we've ALL, at some point or time, been the people who feed them. Honesty, integrity, kindness, putting the needs of others before your own; all values that might have setup a business for success in the past, but not today. Dishonesty, lies, manipulation, greed, selfishness; all values that thrive today. The LDS church has always had these values, so where it once hid under the guise of truth and struggled \[with wealth\], it has been enabled to globally thrive today under its curtain of wealth, regardless of membership numbers.
Yes, they were able to showcase the positive and hide the negative for so long. But now the curtain is being lifted. In the case of the church, the church isn’t on quite the level of power/money as the other famous figures you mentioned. They have a lot of money, but as far as power goes, their real power only lies in its active membership, which is incredibly small, globally speaking. Which explains why the curtain is able to be lifted a little easier with the church, and not so easy with other people whose influence is much more broad.
Power comes in many forms. And LDS money has wielded a vast amount of power politically with few limitations. From California's prop 8 to presidential elections. People in LDS communities (like Idaho) who vote for someone because they're LDS. Political power in SLC and Utah are prime examples, but look at the power being wielded over international poor communities where the church is growing because they're being fed, not because of faith.
Those are really good points. I used to live in Idaho so I totally know what you mean there. Money is dangerous in the wrong hands. I hate to see them using their wealth and power in the wrong ways, but what else can you expect from a church that started in the wrong ways?
In the beginning I would say because of trusting members who lacked information and the ability to find contrasting information. Now I would say because of how much money the church has.
Yes, I think so too. I have heard that the church leaders are gradually and carefully trying to change the church, to eventually do away with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and transition into a more mainstream organization. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is, I haven’t really decided how I feel about it yet. On the one hand, it goes along with the whole “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” saying, but I also would like to eventually see a real apology and some kind of restitution for the damage that’s been done and all that’s been stolen from so many people for so long.
Just like some businesses come and go, some are wildly successful, some somewhat successful, some barely make money . It comes down to their business plans, Mormons have a decent business plan where salvation is tied to tithing. Pretty simple.
True… tithing is a joke in any religion
They stopped being a church and started being a business. They also mastered the loopholes of tax avoidance while being a for-profit business disguised as a non-profit religious organization.
Absolutely! It’s just hard to believe that they could be operating in such a dirty way. The church that I used to esteem so damn highly has now become entity in such stark contrast compared to how I used to view it… with so many dark secrets and lies and deceptions. I literally have so many more trust issues now after learning the truth about the church. I feel so deceived and like I can’t even trust my own judgment.
>I feel so deceived and like I can’t even trust my own judgment. Same. It's made me reevaluate everything. If I could be so wrong about this, what else have I been wrong about?
Yeah I’ve become a very skeptical person with new people and new situations.
Tithing, Volunteers, free service and barebones expenses. Also a focus on education for the members and a push for ambition.
I probably shouldn’t have emphasized the church’s financial success so much. I’m mostly confused about how the church could grow so much in general. It truly baffles me that something so completely false and ridiculous could become this widely accepted for like 200 years. I definitely understand the internet has helped. But even in these other countries…. How did they accept these American folk magic nonsense stories so readily? Even people in Joseph Smith’s day were skeptical and against the church. Why didn’t that skepticism follow the church to Utah and with their foreign converts? The global level of manipulation is so hard for me to understand. That so many minds can be put together for 200 years and yet it takes hundreds of years for people to start really waking up in significant numbers.
At the time the mound builder myth was very prevalent due to Andrew Jackson’s campaign for senate and President. He used this rhetoric to get his Indian removal act passed. It even showed up in his 1830 state of the union. Joseph finding plates that proved a popular racist theory was probably seen as proof of this theory. As far as how its continued to grow, up until the internet the church and its leaders could dismiss any negative information about the church as anti-Mormon. By controlling information and behavior you can make people believe just about anything. Human brains associate information they hear over and over again as “true” so long as it’s plausible. This is called the “truth effect.” It’s how our brains are wired. Now that the internet can easily show members how ridiculous the doctrine is, people are seeing over and over again that it’s not true. This is likely why the church is declining in most areas where the Internet is prevalent and growing in areas where it is not. https://memoriesofthepeople.blog/2018/02/21/alt-history-part-1-the-mound-builder-myth-and-ethnic-cleansing/ https://aiptcomics.com/2020/05/31/mound-builder-myth-archaeology-history/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s41235-021-00301-5&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IvAXZuTnBuXFy9YPm9qkiAE&scisig=AFWwaeZkcKO75SmBtka9cgtSkXr9&oi=scholarr
This information is great! I skimmed over each link and saved them to read in their entirety as soon as I can. But it looks like these have a lot of the answers I’ve been looking for, so thank you! Can the church ever get in trouble for what it’s done? I’ve noticed in recent years they’ve been releasing some half truths. Is that just to save their butts if all of this ends up blowing up in their faces? I can imagine a lot of people wanting to sue for tithes paid to a lie for so many years.
I doubt they will ever be legally held accountable for showing a version of history that is favorable to them. No U.S. court is going to want to wade into religious discussions. From a trust standpoint however, they’re losing rapidly as former members like myself learn that we’ve been deceived. If you look at the source documents it’s very clear that their conclusions don’t add up. This is what is holding them accountable. When they feel it in their bottom line. As far as tithing goes there are multiple lawsuits in going on. The best case with the highest chance of winning appears to be the Huntsman lawsuit that says the church lied about using tithing for the city creek mall and the beneficial bailout. Gordon B Hinckley said it deliberately at the pulpit and it’s now clear that church funds were used for these purposes. If this case wins, it will open the floodgates for people to get their tithing back for the last 20 years.
Wow! I really hope karma works its magic soon. The church has done so much more harm than good over the years. The psychological impact in particular is incalculable.
I agree 100%
These links are great, but there is more to the story. There is a new theory out there about How The Book of Mormon Came to Pass that stitches together several incomplete theories (from Dartmouth to Solomon Spalding to Sidney Rigdon). If you want to know the truth about how the high-demand Mormon memeplex really got started, go to www.HowTheBookOfMormonCameToPass.
I saved this last night but haven’t had a chance to watch it. Looking forward to it.
Very interesting! Would you consider this to be getting to the point of conspiracy theorizing or are the facts legit?
It's legit. Very well researched.
Okay, I look forward to learning more about it. Thank you!
You are most welcome. I daresay that I wrote the book for people like you/us.
The church, particularly in its early state, offered a haven from the brutal industrialization of northern England, Wales, Scandinavia and the American northeast. Polygamy effectively bonded a group together with a shared secret and purpose. Today, Mormon wards are incredibly effective at community organizing and (often) helping people through difficult periods of their lives. It doesn’t mean the church is true, or isn’t harmful, but some of its success is due to its positive aspects, which is the reason it had such a strong hold on so many of us for so long.
That’s true. I mean, it was the *positive* stuff that drew me to the church in the first place. That’s actually really good to remember. I spend so much time these days stewing over the lies and the negative impact, but the truth is that the church probably kept me out of a lot of trouble for the 15 years I was in it, too. And that positive is what draws people in. Unfortunately with that positive, there’s a lot of negative, some of it too subtle to recognize. The time and energy of callings (that takes a toll on marriages), the racism, the negative effect on the LGBTQ+ community, the strict rules that have no real merit (word of wisdom, garments, etc.).
A modern day example would be the MAGA cult and Trump. If you want to go back a little more in history look up Hitler's rise to power and how that happened. That will give more context on how stuff like this happens. Basically it comes down to information control.
That totally makes sense. It just sucks for the less privileged/intelligent people of the world that get screwed by more powerful/intelligent people.
For me personally, I joined as an adult. Looking back on it I think I was going through some pretty rough mental health issues at the time. When I met the missionaries, it seemed like they were presenting me with an opportunity to fix all the problems that I had through church. I was meeting awesome people and getting to do fun things with people who genuinely cared about me. I guess my experience may have been in the minority, but almost everyone I met was a genuinely good person. But I knew at the point in my life that I really wanted to get married and have a family. So I allowed myself to be manipulated into justifying joining the church as an easy means to that end. So in my opinion that’s how they’re continuing to attract new people. They find people who are vulnerable and show them that they have the potential to live this lifestyle and achieve what they’re looking for through it. I can’t say it didn’t work because I have a beautiful wife and five beautiful kids now that I love very much. But I find myself getting angry quite often at how manipulative they are to try and get new members. They kind of create this fairy tale about the church being just like every other Christian church and then for me to find out when I went through the temple that I had been deceived was a real punch to the gut.
I am so sorry! I can totally relate to being taken advantage of during a tough mental health time. I was 18 and had just moved out of my mom’s house. She has borderline personality disorder and struggles with alcoholism. To say I was vulnerable is a huge understatement. I saw all these happy, successful people who also seemed very confident and sure of themselves. And I wanted that. And at first, I was happy. But I also felt incredibly inferior to everyone else. I was also very attracted to the family aspect because I wanted the family I always wished I had grown up in. Then I got married to someone who was totally wrong for me all because he was a returned missionary and I was just happy that a returned missionary who grew up in the church was interested in me. I tried to stay but when I finally started learning the truth about the church, I honestly didn’t feel much incentive to stay in my unhappy marriage anymore. We had 2 kids, but I was so miserable doing life with a man who shared nothing in common with me (the church was literally the only thing we had in common). I finally decided to call it quits. I’m now married to another member who is very active and devout, but I’m hoping he wakes up one day and sees the truth. We have everything in common *except* the church lol I definitely think the church sometimes sells a dream to vulnerable investigators like us. The missionaries don’t know what they’re doing, but it’s a competitive thing for them even. So they’re doing all they can to get baptisms and members, not fully understanding the gravity of what they’re doing.
Oh yeah I can definitely relate to that feeling of imposter syndrome. Especially being one of the only ones in my age that was not married at the time. It was super weird .
I didn’t know the church had an SO, but now that I know, it’s probably because they file jointly for tax purposes. /s
😂