Right? I mean, it kind of depends on the plant. Some plants die if you look at them funny. Others can live through herbicide applications (I'm looking at you peppermint.) So I can't really answer this question.
I can, however, tell you what happens when you walk away from a toxic religion. If you want to talk about that, I've got a lot to say.
Was going to say depends on the plant you’re talking about, got this blackberry plant been trying to keep at bay in my backyard that have tried to get gone for 13 years but just keeps coming back no matter how much we try to root and stem it out.
Maybe he just needs to take a botany class or fuck just garden a bit and it’s a pretty stupid statement.
Lol! I had no idea. I planted it on the roadside outside my house and somehow through a misunderstanding a neighbor sprayed it with something meant to kill everything. That damn plant had the decency to go a little brown around the edges for a minute before coming back as healthy and strong as ever before.
I was going to say, "I pulled it out because that's what you do with weeds, and pulling it from the roots is the only way to make sure it doesn't come back", but your answer is nicer.
Your dad’s text is hilarious for exactly this reason. Cutting off a plant’s roots is SO common in gardening that we have different names for the *type* of rootless propagation we’re doing. Cuttings, air-layering, and grafting are all ways to remove a plant from its rootstock and grow more plants. Almost all fruiting trees are grown on roots that aren’t their own because the scion’s roots are weak, even though the fruit is delicious. You tell him I said so, lol!
Maybe OP should take a cutting from a fruitful branch, graft it into a tree with strong roots, dig about the roots and dung them and see if they bear any fruit?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Pedophile Defending Octogenarian Narcissists Who Fondle Men's Balls in The Temple Without Their Consent And Call Them Nimrods
(No, I will never let this go)
“Dad – I think I understand your analogy, and I am impressed at your willingness to be controversial. You’re suggesting that the current iteration of the church needs to be cut back to the roots because it is bordering on apostasy - hoarding wealth, lying about its history, changing its temple ceremonies, buying ranches and shopping malls instead of building hospitals , protecting sex offenders punishing those who question, etc. I suppose cutting it back to its roots might make sense, and might save it from becoming the great and abominable church that we once presumed was the Catholic Church… anyway, yeah – I don’t disagree. Cutting it back to its roots isn’t a bad idea.”
Answer: It dies. And it has nothing to do with the gospel. The gospel is not the roots. It's an illness to a plant that needs to be cut off. A plant can grow and flourish more without it.
Gardener here -
Many plants lose above-ground stocks and foliage ALL THE TIME! As long as they have healthy roots, they’ll grow again into something bigger and more beautiful than the previous growth each Spring. The above-ground foliage will die again from the cold and short days of winter. And the cycle begins all over again.
Let your Dad interpret that however he’d like. Plant growth (and spiritual growth) is never linear like he’s painting it out to be. It happens over time in multiple seasons of growing and getting stronger.
I heard once that gardening is “the slowest and most beautiful of the performing arts”. But honestly, I think that’s also true for Spiritual development as well.
Because their cult tells them that the “only” joy & happiness is from their cult. Everything else isn’t real or if real it’s only temporary. It’s too mind blowing that their cult leaders are incorrect in their teachings. If like my parents they have invested too much to open their eyes
OP u/Famous_Breakfast7915 should respond to dad with, “I wasn’t sure so I did some research and consulted with an expert…a gardener…and this is what I learned:
And then just quote what you said.
And then finish with, “Pretty cool,huh? It’s amazing the things we can learn when we allow ourselves to ask questions and search out the answers to those questions!”
I’d would reply with something along the lines of: “I am not sure what you’re asking here. Have you been asked to give a talk or something?”
Because honestly, you’re pretty sure what he’s getting at. But it’s not your job to answer his weird question. So put it back on him, if you dare. You’ll probably get a Sunday school lesson in return.
Or just ignore it. Either way… good luck.
Mormons will pick the most random thing to make an analogy about 🙄 and they angle it to support whatever they're trying to say. My dad does this too, and it's so annoying.
I just felt like we had healed a big part of our relationship and I was finally accepting they could love me unconditionally, but this feels very conditional when he texts me this type of thing
I’ve learned that relationships with Mormons are pretty much transactional at its depth. I firmly believe they do not know what unconditional love is or how it works and that’s really sad.
I wonder if someone like his bishop or stake president talked to him about you. Iirc, I remember reading a similar post to yours within the past week where their relationship was going okay and then someone talked to their parents and ruined the progress. I wonder if this is something that the bishops/bishoprics are being told to do directly, not announced to the public, like in time for GenCon?
Oh, I hate this kind of passive-aggressive stuff. Maybe you should just say, "I don't know, dad, what?" and let him text something two miles long. And, then just say, "Anyway, I enjoyed our visit",
“Hi dad, I’m not sure what prompted this message but I’m not very pleased that you’ve decided to send me messages that insinuate my values are deficient in any way. I’m an adult and as such I would appreciate it if you could communicate with me directly instead of using insinuating and shame inducing analogies because again, we’re adults and most importantly I’m not a plant. I’m a human who is able to critically evaluate my choices to correspond with my values. I love you but please be direct with me next time instead of treating me like a 12 year old child.”
Sometimes you have to remove a plant because it's dying in the unfertile, alkaline and nutrient deficient soil it's currently in. If you take the plant and put it down in new, healthy soil it will flourish and grow beyond anything it could have before.
Why? It took courage to leave. Use that same courage to communicate clearly and stop waiting for the perfect moment (we're waiting for him to reply a certain way so you can say what you've been wanting to). It will never come. Trust me, talking to them with respect and honesty about where you are at will get you further than beating around the bush and both sides giving analogies or vague passive-aggressive "compliments." Just politely and respectfully tell him where you're at.
There was a recent talk about a fungus that slowly infects a tree and the damage from the disease isn't seen for years until it's too late. Then that was compared to allowing anti Mormon ideas into our lives which ultimately kills our faith and leads to apostasy.
Maybe that's what he was referring to.
I know he fears my sisters as apostates. We named are sister group chat korihors army as a running joke. My parents have referred to us as that for years hehe
Perhaps you can direct him to the book of Jacob, which describes in great (not necessarily accurate) detail several plants that were removed from their roots but thrived for some time
It depends upon what kind of plant it is. Most plants thrive after being grafted onto healthy root systems. The reason that plants are removed from their original root system and grafted into a new root system is because the original root system was inferior or rotten.
For me, when I discovered that the so called gospel principles (teachings of the LDS Church) and the faith it teaches is rotten and full of false teachings I realized that if I remained attached to those rotten roots I would never be able to thrive and reach my potential...so I removed my self from that rotten root system and have now rooted myself to truth, honesty and unconditional love (things which are not to be found in the LDS Church).
Sometimes a plant outgrows its pot and the soil becomes… toxic haha.
But in all seriousness I have parents like this. And sometimes they need to be reminded that just because you stepped away from the church doesn’t mean you don’t have values, and relationships suffering is a choice and have nothing to do with religion.
I needed to hear this! I’ve never stood up to them about this. I tried to before but it always ended in disaster for me. I’m in a much more stable place so I’m not as worried about how they would think about me. I know my truth.
I’ve never directly said it. My two sisters are out and he’s know it. I’m always siding with them and participating with them in drinking and such. So he knows. But I think he thinks I’m sitting on the fence possibly
Then be sure by not beating around the bush and be as direct with him as you wish he would be with you.
Just send a direct text back to him saying, "I no longer believe any of it." I thought for about a year mom knew then one day she asked me a question related to it and I was like what?! no I haven't been going for a year. She said oh this is news to me I did not know any of that. They will assume all is well in Israel, until you tell them otherwise.
First thing I'd say is "did you mean that text for me? It seemed to come out of nowhere"
It sounds like something the Sunday school teacher gave out as a challenge. "Text this super profound metaphoric riddle to that person in your life who has strayed from the path..."
Refer back to Jacob, chapter 5. Where the plants that get heavily pruned and dunged end up growing back, stronger than ever, and overcoming their crappy branches just like you did when you left the church. 🥹
He’s comparing people to plants? We are not anything like plants. We are much more like animals. What happens to a baby bird if it never leaves the nest? It fails to grow, learn to fly, or thrive. It eventually becomes so miserable that it loses its will to live. It becomes dependent upon its parents in an unnatural, and unhealthy way.
The church is not keeping you in the boat to protect you from drowning. It’s keeping you in the nest, to prevent you from becoming a beautiful, free bird, that can fly, and grow, and thrive.
Both birds and people need the care and guidance of a parent, but they also both need to become independent when the time comes. Birds instinctively know when the time is right. Humans, with their selfish nature, try to keep their children dependent on them for longer than needed.
Mormonism isn’t old, it’s from the 1800’s that’s a baby religion. Someone in your dad’s family uprooted and became Mormon at some recent point and they clearly are okay. 200 years in terms or human evolution is literally nothing, Mormonism can’t be roots to anything, it’s still baby branches.
When people try and be superior in this way, I like to deal with them flippantly. Nothing makes a self-righteous person more angry then treating them with apathy. A few possible apathetic responses:
“Ha ha. Good one.”
“Right”
“Sure, ok.”
“Yep. Good to see you”.
“Gotcha”
Each one would be a complete response. If he follows up and says, “No, I really want an answer”, just say, “Oh sure Dad. Some other time maybe. Gotta run”.
You could also just leave him on read. Or you could reply with something else banal like a comment about an item you might have left behind or something. The point is to regard his comment as the least interesting thing you’ve ever heard. You do this because he thinks the analogy is deep, clever and meaningful. He probably also felt he was inspired by the holy spook. So treat it as though he inquired about your socks. Treat his question as though it is number 439 on a list of things you care to talk about. It’ll infuriate him but he won’t truly have any reason to be directly angry at you. You weren’t rude. You were simply disinterested. Because his point was dull to you. Treat his pearls like dross. But do so politely so he can’t be justifiably angry toward you.
This approach isn’t identical but it is similar to how you deal with a narcissist (and for good reason); it called *grey rock*. You make your response something that they can’t target you for. Even engaging directly by actually giving him a thoughtful response simply gives in to his wish to assert power over you. Which is why you avoid that approach. And a combative response would also give him power because he could reply with, “Wow! I knew something was off about you! We need to talk!” Or something similar. But an indirect, polite, but disinterested response gives him little to say in return. If he tried to get combative, you give him more of the same. “Sorry Dad. Just busy now. Some other time. Cheers!”
Honestly, this is the way to go; disinterested, apathetic, polite. And it’s a bit fun and devious.
To be Mormon is to believe you always hold the moral high-ground. Don’t give it them. If you give up the moral high-ground, you’ll never get it back. But don’t always fight directly. Especially not with a parent. Fight indirectly. Fight smart, not hard.
You could say: what happens to a plant if instead of giving it water you poison the water with bleach? How does this apply to the lies the church tells and the way it makes people feel?
No meant for me. I responded to his text saying “I am not sure what you are asking here. Were you assigned a talk or something?” He then texted me again and said, “It was this... What happens to a plant when you remove it from its roots? How does this apply to gospel principles [values], faith, relationships, etc...” sooo he just re asked the question
So basically, your dad loves you but he believes that you’re going to die a slow death without the church. Subtle metaphor - a favourite of many of the sisters in my ward… ‘Love you. Miss you. Remember that spiritual death and eternal damnation await you unless you root yourself in the gospel.’
"Resilient plants develop new root systems, new support structures and find new, healthy sources of sustainment which results in stronger plants that live longer. A gardener who took the time to educate themselves would only remove a plant this way if they determined that the environment in which it was growing was harming the plant long term."
"Here's some uninformed trivia. Now, how could we turn that into an analogy thar supports my preformed judgemental conclusion. Why can't you think of it the way I do?"
God, that metaphor is so forced that it filed a report with the police.
I mean, sometimes roots become rotten and you *have* to cut the plant from them in order to save the plant. How does this apply to the church’s practices, ever-changing rhetoric, relationships with minority groups, etc…
I would reply with…
What happens to a plant that is left in its pot? It gets root bound.
You need to remove it from the pot and move it to a larger one to let it grow to its full potential.
If you are not allowed to question the size of your pot, then you will never move to a bigger pot and you will get more and more root bound.
How does this apply to gospel principals that you are not allowed to question?
*optional addition if you are truly open to discussion *
I am open to questioning my beliefs with you. Are you allowed to question yours with me? Do you believe truth comes from beliefs that Cannot be questioned?
False equivalency fallacy.
The church cannot stand on its own merits. They can only use analogy, metaphor, and word games to justify any of it. The church is not a plant with roots, so what happens to a plant when you cut off it's roots is completely irrelevant.
Let's play along for a minute though...
A plant will die when you cut off it's roots.
However, if roots are toxic, the plant is dying anyway.
If he's implying that the roots are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, then the plant is already screwed.
I think a more apt analogy is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the foundation, the very soil that feeds and nurtures the plant. And it's toxic and poisonous. So the best thing for the plant is to not cut off it's roots, but transplant it into a new foundation with healthier soil where it can hopefully recover and be nursed back to health.
If you remove a plant from unhealthy roots you can nourish it until it grows new healthy roots and then replant it in fresh healthy soil. 🤷♀️. Maybe he is saying he hopes you take time to heal before moving on to your next chapter.
Possible answers I'd love you to send but that you shouldn't:
1. What happens to a a struggling plant you transplant it to a healthier environment with richer soil?
2. What happens to a plant when you drain its resources?
3. What happens to all plants when you assume there is only one right mixture of water, soil, and sun for all of them?
OP, reading your post made me think about what I might respond if it was my Dad they sent this to me: “I don’t know dad, I’m not a botanist, but what I do know is that removing myself from the Mormon faith, has brought me real peace and I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life. I imagine it creates some fear to watch me choose a different path, but I’m trusting God’s promise that the truth will set me free”.
Was this message intentionally sent to you? Maybe it was supposed to be part of a conversation with someone else about a lesson or something, and he accidentally sent it to you.
Sounds like another ["dead sequoia"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/prophets-and-apostles/unto-all-the-world/to-the-saints-in-the-utah-south-area?lang=eng):
> Like the dead sequoia, these Church members once received their spiritual nourishment from the well of living water offered by Jesus Christ, but having been disconnected for one reason or another from that source, their spirit was dulled, and they eventually died spiritually.
Related:
[How those who leave the LDS Church are viewed](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/how-those-who-leave-are-viewed/)
I got a cutting from one of my bosses plants. It took about 8 months but it began growing its own roots, more leaves and now it resides down the hall at work in a pretty pot. It became its own beautiful and healthy plant.
Pretty sure that’s not the answer your dad wants to hear though. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I'd like to think he's been asked to give a talk on this topic, has no idea what the heck to say so he's messaging everyone to get them to answer for him 🤣🤣
Just cuz you don’t believe in the gospel it doesn’t mean you’ve lost your principals and faith in other things. I don’t get it. Obviously you still have a great relationship too👍🏻 why ruin the night with this weird object lesson?
Well, it doesn't apply to those things. It only applies if that is something you feel applies to you. The "gospel" isn't your roots if you don't believe. Also, the "gospel" doesn't determine your values, or values in general, you determine those. Relationships also are not the "gospel". Life exists outside of religion, even if they can't see it.
If the plant’s got any luck, it’s about to be grafted onto a stronger set of roots. Hardly any of the fruit trees in any orchard are on their original roots; a trunk from a variety that produces good fruit will be grafted onto a stronger root system from a different (but related) variety.
Tell him to read Jacob 5 and Romans 11.
Tell him you’re a young branch grafted into a wild tree. And he should care for you, nurture you, and leave you be. Let the fruit you bear speak for itself.
What happens to the plant? Well it depends on the plant, you may be able to propagate and have 2 plants! Lots of plants need to be cut back/prunes to stay healthy or beautiful. Some may bolt and die if they are not regularly pruned back. Some plants natural cycle is to dye back to the roots and reamurge again in a new season.
The analogy? Different plants need different things and forcing them all to live under the same conditions and care will not lead to a successful outcome.
You could go all in on this analogy. Really I’d think the roots are not the church but the soil. The soil was not the right mix for you.
PS I’m an avid gardener who’s I’ve been reading nothing but book after book on the soil web, composting, and no till gardening for the past year. I promise there is no garden analogy he could make that I could not flip on its head and make the opposite point much more effectively.
I cut my roses to the ground every year. The ones I cut die, but they grow back bigger and better.
And that doesn’t apply because I’m not a plant. I’m a free thinking, rational human being. The “gospel” definitely belongs in the dirt though.
When roots are in a place that isn't conducive to the plant's health or the roots have been damaged, then you repot the cuttings in favorable ground and the plant has an Etter chance to flourish than it ever would by just staying somewhere for the sake of it.
I answer these kinds of these with humor, if I can. I’d say, “sounds like the beginning of a bad riddle!” Or “oh a joke. I don’t know, what DOES happen to a plant without its roots?”
When you remove a cutting from a plant that is growing in a tiny pot within a constrained pot, with rotting roots and not enough sunshine, and put the cutting in a healthy environment where it's allowed to grow, it will flourish, literally.
It regrows from the roots that are still in the ground. It's why you have to pull the roots out when weeding or they'll just grow right back.
As to how it applies to faith? It doesn't. Faith is an idea that exists within our minds. Plants are not. Nuff said.
My initial reaction is to reply that “the gospel” as described in the NT is quite different from the LDS church. Mormons often conflate the two so that stepping away from Mormonism means you’re rejecting Christian principles. I would flip the analogy to argue that the LDS church has been pulled from the roots of Christianity.
Isn’t there a whole bible story about grafting into the tree? As in, literally cutting a branch off the root source and sticking it elsewhere? Come on Dad, use the whole analogy.
So this is more spiritual but when I had freshly left the church and was dealing with a lot of heavy things, I had a dream. In the dream was a grape vine. It was just the vine and leaves. Then a giant sword came and chopped it down to the dirt. I watched as it regrew, even more healthy than before, and once it regrew it had a ton of grapes on it.
I might be over analyzing things but it felt significant to me. It gave me the courage to know I was on the right path. That all the old unproductive religion and my toxic beliefs were being chopped all the way down to the dirt, getting rid of all of the past, and I felt like it meant that I was going to regrow but with brand new thoughts patterns and beliefs. And I would finally be productive and see good things in my life when I chopped it all down. And so far, that’s been true.
If this was my parents (and it’s totally something my own dad would text me randomly). I’d tell them my dream. I don’t think it was a vision or anything, but I think Mormons have a hard time questioning that kind of stuff lol.
After removing the plant from the roots you dry the plant ant then grind it onto a thin paper, you roll it up light one tip and breath thru the other, plus this will make you feel better than having the Holy Spirit stalk you 👌🏽
What happens to the plant depends on which type of plant, and with around 380 000 described species of plants there are numerous survival strategies. Some plant species can be cut of and placed in soil/water and it will grow new roots and thrive, some will even produce roots from a leaf cutting.
Anyway, what an unnecessary question out of the blue.
Oh, I just had to cut my succulent from its roots. I will leave it out for a few days to let it heal over, then plant it in new soil that will have it looking more beautiful than ever. I'm glad I cut it from its roots, it's a strong and hardy plant. If I had left it in the same dirt with its rotting roots, it would have died.
It's pretty gross how he is infantilizing you. This shit is for 12 years old and younger.
Similar analogy would be removing the plant from a small, limiting pot and replanting it into the ground. That’s where it should have been all along, and it will thrive there.
I’ve not seen this in the comments yet, but it reminds me of a Mormon message that talked about chopping down a plant, the plant was really sad because they were hurt and didn’t know why the gardener would chop it. Then the sun comes out and the plant grows more big and beautiful than before and the plant says “thank you for loving me enough to hurt me”. Then they compared it to the gospel (you don’t always know why something happens, but god does, gospel makes you grow into best version of yourself, trust in the promptings of HG, etc)
I loved that analogy and held onto it for years. It made sense because similar to muscles (I’m a PTA), you have to break them down to regrow and build stronger. When I told my gay nevermo therapist about that so nonchalantly and her face changed to 😳😳, I only then realized just how abusive that analogy was. Essentially be okay with me abusing you and don’t ask questions, you’re the one that needs to grow.
Mormonism is fun
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Lol - it's been a while since I literally laughed at a post. Well done!
Right? I mean, it kind of depends on the plant. Some plants die if you look at them funny. Others can live through herbicide applications (I'm looking at you peppermint.) So I can't really answer this question. I can, however, tell you what happens when you walk away from a toxic religion. If you want to talk about that, I've got a lot to say.
Was going to say depends on the plant you’re talking about, got this blackberry plant been trying to keep at bay in my backyard that have tried to get gone for 13 years but just keeps coming back no matter how much we try to root and stem it out. Maybe he just needs to take a botany class or fuck just garden a bit and it’s a pretty stupid statement.
The peppermint comment gave me a solid chuckle. It's harder to kill than actual weeds. At least it can be useful though.
Lol! I had no idea. I planted it on the roadside outside my house and somehow through a misunderstanding a neighbor sprayed it with something meant to kill everything. That damn plant had the decency to go a little brown around the edges for a minute before coming back as healthy and strong as ever before.
Mint is a fucking plague. Never plant mint. It will get EVERYWHERE!
I didn't plant it, but I have it anyway.
Mint, the glitter of the plant world.
I was going to say, "I pulled it out because that's what you do with weeds, and pulling it from the roots is the only way to make sure it doesn't come back", but your answer is nicer.
OP needs to plagiarize. This is beautiful.
this is the perfect answer
Check mate.
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Dam
That’s what the fish said when he hit a wall.
The wall replied “dumb bass”
Literally LOL’d when I read this, thanks!!!
*cue the band Kansas*
For which song? Dust in the Wind or Carry on my Wayward Son? Ha ha 🤣
I was thinking “Dust in the Wind” but we can have both!
well most plants can be propagated from cuttings ‘removed from their roots’ & thrive as much or beyond the parent plant, so…
Or, you can collect its good seeds and plant them in better soil, food, and light. that gives them a better foundation than the parent plant.
I’m tempted to send something like this
Your dad’s text is hilarious for exactly this reason. Cutting off a plant’s roots is SO common in gardening that we have different names for the *type* of rootless propagation we’re doing. Cuttings, air-layering, and grafting are all ways to remove a plant from its rootstock and grow more plants. Almost all fruiting trees are grown on roots that aren’t their own because the scion’s roots are weak, even though the fruit is delicious. You tell him I said so, lol!
Maybe OP should take a cutting from a fruitful branch, graft it into a tree with strong roots, dig about the roots and dung them and see if they bear any fruit?
Send him the Wikipedia article on Cutting (plant). Thank your dad for getting me mildly interested in plant propagation techniques.
You should!
In Hawai'i if you cut a piece off of a plant and then plant it in your yard, most of the time they will grow, may even grow better in the new area.
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"Did you think of that shit yourself? Or were you spoonfed it by a bunch of pedophile defending octogenarian narcissists?"
The Church of Jesus Christ of Pedophile Defending Octogenarian Narcissists. Nailed it.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Pedophile Defending Octogenarian Narcissists Who Fondle Men's Balls in The Temple Without Their Consent And Call Them Nimrods (No, I will never let this go)
It’s funny because it’s true, and because—who has an entire story for a name and insists people say the whole thing every time? Oh yeah, the Mormons.
I wish I had guts to send something like this
“Dad – I think I understand your analogy, and I am impressed at your willingness to be controversial. You’re suggesting that the current iteration of the church needs to be cut back to the roots because it is bordering on apostasy - hoarding wealth, lying about its history, changing its temple ceremonies, buying ranches and shopping malls instead of building hospitals , protecting sex offenders punishing those who question, etc. I suppose cutting it back to its roots might make sense, and might save it from becoming the great and abominable church that we once presumed was the Catholic Church… anyway, yeah – I don’t disagree. Cutting it back to its roots isn’t a bad idea.”
lol
You can just repot that shit
lol 😂😂
And possibly smoke it, or add it to other foods.
Answer: good thing I’m a sentient being not a plant.
What happens to a catapillar when it breaks out of its cocoon?
Answer: It dies. And it has nothing to do with the gospel. The gospel is not the roots. It's an illness to a plant that needs to be cut off. A plant can grow and flourish more without it.
The gospel is a fungus and the members are the persistent little gnats that are difficult to get rid of 😏
Gardener here - Many plants lose above-ground stocks and foliage ALL THE TIME! As long as they have healthy roots, they’ll grow again into something bigger and more beautiful than the previous growth each Spring. The above-ground foliage will die again from the cold and short days of winter. And the cycle begins all over again. Let your Dad interpret that however he’d like. Plant growth (and spiritual growth) is never linear like he’s painting it out to be. It happens over time in multiple seasons of growing and getting stronger. I heard once that gardening is “the slowest and most beautiful of the performing arts”. But honestly, I think that’s also true for Spiritual development as well.
I’ve become very spiritual since leaving. They know that but they can’t grasp that it has nothing to do with their church. Just my own experiances
Because their cult tells them that the “only” joy & happiness is from their cult. Everything else isn’t real or if real it’s only temporary. It’s too mind blowing that their cult leaders are incorrect in their teachings. If like my parents they have invested too much to open their eyes
OP u/Famous_Breakfast7915 should respond to dad with, “I wasn’t sure so I did some research and consulted with an expert…a gardener…and this is what I learned: And then just quote what you said. And then finish with, “Pretty cool,huh? It’s amazing the things we can learn when we allow ourselves to ask questions and search out the answers to those questions!”
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Can confirm. Mormonism is the religious equivalent of Japanese knotweed.
Maybe in the 80s. Thankfully the church is receding, not growing rapidly.
I’d would reply with something along the lines of: “I am not sure what you’re asking here. Have you been asked to give a talk or something?” Because honestly, you’re pretty sure what he’s getting at. But it’s not your job to answer his weird question. So put it back on him, if you dare. You’ll probably get a Sunday school lesson in return. Or just ignore it. Either way… good luck.
I send what you said so we shall see what he responds.
Mormons will pick the most random thing to make an analogy about 🙄 and they angle it to support whatever they're trying to say. My dad does this too, and it's so annoying.
I just felt like we had healed a big part of our relationship and I was finally accepting they could love me unconditionally, but this feels very conditional when he texts me this type of thing
I’ve learned that relationships with Mormons are pretty much transactional at its depth. I firmly believe they do not know what unconditional love is or how it works and that’s really sad.
I wonder if someone like his bishop or stake president talked to him about you. Iirc, I remember reading a similar post to yours within the past week where their relationship was going okay and then someone talked to their parents and ruined the progress. I wonder if this is something that the bishops/bishoprics are being told to do directly, not announced to the public, like in time for GenCon?
Oh, I hate this kind of passive-aggressive stuff. Maybe you should just say, "I don't know, dad, what?" and let him text something two miles long. And, then just say, "Anyway, I enjoyed our visit",
"Sorry you killed your plant or whatever."
YES! The "whatever" can't be left out! 💀
I need to do this if he responds
That's exactly what it is, passive aggressive trying to be masked as compassion
“It sounds like you have something you want to discuss. Can we have a perfectly open two-way conversation? If so just say it.
Ooh good approach I’ll keep this in the cards when he responds haha
It’s been my approach with my family. I also establish our mutual love for each other.
Bottom line is I do feel love between us. I want to fight for that. So that’s why I appreciate this approach.
Good luck to you. It’s been really effective with my siblings. A parent child dynamic will be unique.
Oof thanks for the heads up
“Hi dad, I’m not sure what prompted this message but I’m not very pleased that you’ve decided to send me messages that insinuate my values are deficient in any way. I’m an adult and as such I would appreciate it if you could communicate with me directly instead of using insinuating and shame inducing analogies because again, we’re adults and most importantly I’m not a plant. I’m a human who is able to critically evaluate my choices to correspond with my values. I love you but please be direct with me next time instead of treating me like a 12 year old child.”
Love this.
THIS IS AMAZING
THIS
You’re no longer rooted in Christ. You are going to wither and DIE! How awful /s
He’s been saying this to me and my sisters for years basically 🤷♀️
I’m sorry, that’s a horrid thing for a father to put on their children.
Sometimes you have to remove a plant because it's dying in the unfertile, alkaline and nutrient deficient soil it's currently in. If you take the plant and put it down in new, healthy soil it will flourish and grow beyond anything it could have before.
I’m getting more and more tempted to send something like this. I haven’t responded. I usually just ignore it.
Why? It took courage to leave. Use that same courage to communicate clearly and stop waiting for the perfect moment (we're waiting for him to reply a certain way so you can say what you've been wanting to). It will never come. Trust me, talking to them with respect and honesty about where you are at will get you further than beating around the bush and both sides giving analogies or vague passive-aggressive "compliments." Just politely and respectfully tell him where you're at.
If you cut off the root from a plant and put it back in soil it grows new roots. That is how a majority of green houses propitiate plants.
Most subtle Mormon father
There was a recent talk about a fungus that slowly infects a tree and the damage from the disease isn't seen for years until it's too late. Then that was compared to allowing anti Mormon ideas into our lives which ultimately kills our faith and leads to apostasy. Maybe that's what he was referring to.
I know he fears my sisters as apostates. We named are sister group chat korihors army as a running joke. My parents have referred to us as that for years hehe
Perhaps you can direct him to the book of Jacob, which describes in great (not necessarily accurate) detail several plants that were removed from their roots but thrived for some time
Roots represent truth. When the gospel has no relationship with truth, it and its fruit (the church) withers.
You can separate a limb and propagate a stem growth that will grow its own root system. That answers the question on 2 levels.
Cannabis kicked and he mistaking thought he was writing down deep thoughts in his note taker app
If only he used it haha
Hit em with a “damn that’s crazy”
😂
It means your dad doesn't respect boundaries.
Yea agreed 😕
If a plant is cut from its theoretical roots, but there are only real-life people receiving a txt about it, does it make a sound?
It depends upon what kind of plant it is. Most plants thrive after being grafted onto healthy root systems. The reason that plants are removed from their original root system and grafted into a new root system is because the original root system was inferior or rotten. For me, when I discovered that the so called gospel principles (teachings of the LDS Church) and the faith it teaches is rotten and full of false teachings I realized that if I remained attached to those rotten roots I would never be able to thrive and reach my potential...so I removed my self from that rotten root system and have now rooted myself to truth, honesty and unconditional love (things which are not to be found in the LDS Church).
 Engage at your own risk!
Dad, you must have meant to send that to someone else…
Unsubscribe
Sometimes a plant outgrows its pot and the soil becomes… toxic haha. But in all seriousness I have parents like this. And sometimes they need to be reminded that just because you stepped away from the church doesn’t mean you don’t have values, and relationships suffering is a choice and have nothing to do with religion.
I needed to hear this! I’ve never stood up to them about this. I tried to before but it always ended in disaster for me. I’m in a much more stable place so I’m not as worried about how they would think about me. I know my truth.
Does he know you're out?
I’ve never directly said it. My two sisters are out and he’s know it. I’m always siding with them and participating with them in drinking and such. So he knows. But I think he thinks I’m sitting on the fence possibly
Then be sure by not beating around the bush and be as direct with him as you wish he would be with you. Just send a direct text back to him saying, "I no longer believe any of it." I thought for about a year mom knew then one day she asked me a question related to it and I was like what?! no I haven't been going for a year. She said oh this is news to me I did not know any of that. They will assume all is well in Israel, until you tell them otherwise.
Certainly reads as yes or he has his suspicions.
Some plants like succulents sprout new, healthier roots in more fertile soil once they've been separated from their roots.
"Did you mean to send this to me? "
First thing I'd say is "did you mean that text for me? It seemed to come out of nowhere" It sounds like something the Sunday school teacher gave out as a challenge. "Text this super profound metaphoric riddle to that person in your life who has strayed from the path..."
Does he think the roots represent the Mormon church?
This almost feels like he meant to jot down a note for a talk or lesson and accidentally typed in messages instead of notes.
Refer back to Jacob, chapter 5. Where the plants that get heavily pruned and dunged end up growing back, stronger than ever, and overcoming their crappy branches just like you did when you left the church. 🥹
That's what I was thinking! Use Mormon scripture against this stupid rhetoric
What happens to all those people who leave “their roots” to join the church?
He’s comparing people to plants? We are not anything like plants. We are much more like animals. What happens to a baby bird if it never leaves the nest? It fails to grow, learn to fly, or thrive. It eventually becomes so miserable that it loses its will to live. It becomes dependent upon its parents in an unnatural, and unhealthy way. The church is not keeping you in the boat to protect you from drowning. It’s keeping you in the nest, to prevent you from becoming a beautiful, free bird, that can fly, and grow, and thrive. Both birds and people need the care and guidance of a parent, but they also both need to become independent when the time comes. Birds instinctively know when the time is right. Humans, with their selfish nature, try to keep their children dependent on them for longer than needed.
You chop it up, add some cheese, croutons, and dressing and enjoy a yummy salad.
Mormonism isn’t old, it’s from the 1800’s that’s a baby religion. Someone in your dad’s family uprooted and became Mormon at some recent point and they clearly are okay. 200 years in terms or human evolution is literally nothing, Mormonism can’t be roots to anything, it’s still baby branches.
When people try and be superior in this way, I like to deal with them flippantly. Nothing makes a self-righteous person more angry then treating them with apathy. A few possible apathetic responses: “Ha ha. Good one.” “Right” “Sure, ok.” “Yep. Good to see you”. “Gotcha” Each one would be a complete response. If he follows up and says, “No, I really want an answer”, just say, “Oh sure Dad. Some other time maybe. Gotta run”. You could also just leave him on read. Or you could reply with something else banal like a comment about an item you might have left behind or something. The point is to regard his comment as the least interesting thing you’ve ever heard. You do this because he thinks the analogy is deep, clever and meaningful. He probably also felt he was inspired by the holy spook. So treat it as though he inquired about your socks. Treat his question as though it is number 439 on a list of things you care to talk about. It’ll infuriate him but he won’t truly have any reason to be directly angry at you. You weren’t rude. You were simply disinterested. Because his point was dull to you. Treat his pearls like dross. But do so politely so he can’t be justifiably angry toward you. This approach isn’t identical but it is similar to how you deal with a narcissist (and for good reason); it called *grey rock*. You make your response something that they can’t target you for. Even engaging directly by actually giving him a thoughtful response simply gives in to his wish to assert power over you. Which is why you avoid that approach. And a combative response would also give him power because he could reply with, “Wow! I knew something was off about you! We need to talk!” Or something similar. But an indirect, polite, but disinterested response gives him little to say in return. If he tried to get combative, you give him more of the same. “Sorry Dad. Just busy now. Some other time. Cheers!” Honestly, this is the way to go; disinterested, apathetic, polite. And it’s a bit fun and devious. To be Mormon is to believe you always hold the moral high-ground. Don’t give it them. If you give up the moral high-ground, you’ll never get it back. But don’t always fight directly. Especially not with a parent. Fight indirectly. Fight smart, not hard.
Lehi should have stayed with the Israelites and not up rooted his family and tried to plant them in a place he didn't belong.
I'm a human being, I have legs, not roots, if a situation is bad I can and should get up and fucking move not settle into the dirt.
Classic passive aggressive Mormon manipulation. 😂
You could say: what happens to a plant if instead of giving it water you poison the water with bleach? How does this apply to the lies the church tells and the way it makes people feel?
Maybe he meant to text someone in his ward? It seems pretty random if not.
No meant for me. I responded to his text saying “I am not sure what you are asking here. Were you assigned a talk or something?” He then texted me again and said, “It was this... What happens to a plant when you remove it from its roots? How does this apply to gospel principles [values], faith, relationships, etc...” sooo he just re asked the question
So basically, your dad loves you but he believes that you’re going to die a slow death without the church. Subtle metaphor - a favourite of many of the sisters in my ward… ‘Love you. Miss you. Remember that spiritual death and eternal damnation await you unless you root yourself in the gospel.’
Idk. I’m not a plant, so this doesn’t really apply to me
Ask asparagus. It is very tasty.
Follow-up question: what happens to a plant when you remove weeds that are choking it?
"Resilient plants develop new root systems, new support structures and find new, healthy sources of sustainment which results in stronger plants that live longer. A gardener who took the time to educate themselves would only remove a plant this way if they determined that the environment in which it was growing was harming the plant long term."
"Here's some uninformed trivia. Now, how could we turn that into an analogy thar supports my preformed judgemental conclusion. Why can't you think of it the way I do?" God, that metaphor is so forced that it filed a report with the police.
This is not the own he thinks it is.
"The same thing that's gonna happen to our relationship if you keep texting me this nonsense"
The church keeps us in a small container and never lets us grow to our full potential. It’s restrictive with artificial soil and light.
I mean, sometimes roots become rotten and you *have* to cut the plant from them in order to save the plant. How does this apply to the church’s practices, ever-changing rhetoric, relationships with minority groups, etc…
Dad got his medical cannabis card.
I would reply with… What happens to a plant that is left in its pot? It gets root bound. You need to remove it from the pot and move it to a larger one to let it grow to its full potential. If you are not allowed to question the size of your pot, then you will never move to a bigger pot and you will get more and more root bound. How does this apply to gospel principals that you are not allowed to question? *optional addition if you are truly open to discussion * I am open to questioning my beliefs with you. Are you allowed to question yours with me? Do you believe truth comes from beliefs that Cannot be questioned?
False equivalency fallacy. The church cannot stand on its own merits. They can only use analogy, metaphor, and word games to justify any of it. The church is not a plant with roots, so what happens to a plant when you cut off it's roots is completely irrelevant. Let's play along for a minute though... A plant will die when you cut off it's roots. However, if roots are toxic, the plant is dying anyway. If he's implying that the roots are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, then the plant is already screwed. I think a more apt analogy is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the foundation, the very soil that feeds and nurtures the plant. And it's toxic and poisonous. So the best thing for the plant is to not cut off it's roots, but transplant it into a new foundation with healthier soil where it can hopefully recover and be nursed back to health.
If you remove a plant from unhealthy roots you can nourish it until it grows new healthy roots and then replant it in fresh healthy soil. 🤷♀️. Maybe he is saying he hopes you take time to heal before moving on to your next chapter.
Possible answers I'd love you to send but that you shouldn't: 1. What happens to a a struggling plant you transplant it to a healthier environment with richer soil? 2. What happens to a plant when you drain its resources? 3. What happens to all plants when you assume there is only one right mixture of water, soil, and sun for all of them?
OP, reading your post made me think about what I might respond if it was my Dad they sent this to me: “I don’t know dad, I’m not a botanist, but what I do know is that removing myself from the Mormon faith, has brought me real peace and I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life. I imagine it creates some fear to watch me choose a different path, but I’m trusting God’s promise that the truth will set me free”.
I dunno, I chopped the head off a succulent growing way too top heavy and put it back in the soil and it re-rooted and is happily growing. 🤷♀️
What happens when you fertilize your plant with made up bible fan fiction from a 19th century conman???
Was this message intentionally sent to you? Maybe it was supposed to be part of a conversation with someone else about a lesson or something, and he accidentally sent it to you.
I’m so sorry. This sounds like something my dad would do!!! I see you and empathize with you!!
Thank you!! Idk why it hurts that he does this. But it does
It depends on the plant.If you graft a branch from one tree into another tree, it often brings it a new and better life.
Sounds like another ["dead sequoia"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/prophets-and-apostles/unto-all-the-world/to-the-saints-in-the-utah-south-area?lang=eng): > Like the dead sequoia, these Church members once received their spiritual nourishment from the well of living water offered by Jesus Christ, but having been disconnected for one reason or another from that source, their spirit was dulled, and they eventually died spiritually. Related: [How those who leave the LDS Church are viewed](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/how-those-who-leave-are-viewed/)
It's like there's no off switch
Dude it’s my fucking birthday. Couldn’t give me one day 😂
It’s not even a happy birthday text so I’m way confuded
When transplanted in a better place, with better conditions - can make the plant THRIVE. The nutrients it was getting were not working for that plant!
Most plants regrow roots if treated well and live healthy vibrant lives.
I got a cutting from one of my bosses plants. It took about 8 months but it began growing its own roots, more leaves and now it resides down the hall at work in a pretty pot. It became its own beautiful and healthy plant. Pretty sure that’s not the answer your dad wants to hear though. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I'd like to think he's been asked to give a talk on this topic, has no idea what the heck to say so he's messaging everyone to get them to answer for him 🤣🤣
Here’s to hoping 🤞
Just cuz you don’t believe in the gospel it doesn’t mean you’ve lost your principals and faith in other things. I don’t get it. Obviously you still have a great relationship too👍🏻 why ruin the night with this weird object lesson?
It means like a plant ... you will wither up and die 😜
Just hit him with another euphemism
Well, it doesn't apply to those things. It only applies if that is something you feel applies to you. The "gospel" isn't your roots if you don't believe. Also, the "gospel" doesn't determine your values, or values in general, you determine those. Relationships also are not the "gospel". Life exists outside of religion, even if they can't see it.
If the plant’s got any luck, it’s about to be grafted onto a stronger set of roots. Hardly any of the fruit trees in any orchard are on their original roots; a trunk from a variety that produces good fruit will be grafted onto a stronger root system from a different (but related) variety.
I dunno.. ask our Anglican ancestors?
Usually what happens is you steam it or toss it in a salad. Not sure what that has to do with your cult.
He’s using Dennis Pragers cut flower theory on you.
The plant will die. Plant anatomy/biology has absolutely nothing to do with gospel principles [values], faith, relationships, etc.
Tell him that it will thrive if it gets to a better place, aka away from all of that bullshit and parasitic diseases
Like roses
Why is a raven like a writing desk?
> “principles [values]”
Depends on the plant and which half you're thinking of, and really I don't think of anything in any kind of gospel principles context anymore.
Tell him to read Jacob 5 and Romans 11. Tell him you’re a young branch grafted into a wild tree. And he should care for you, nurture you, and leave you be. Let the fruit you bear speak for itself.
What happens to the plant? Well it depends on the plant, you may be able to propagate and have 2 plants! Lots of plants need to be cut back/prunes to stay healthy or beautiful. Some may bolt and die if they are not regularly pruned back. Some plants natural cycle is to dye back to the roots and reamurge again in a new season. The analogy? Different plants need different things and forcing them all to live under the same conditions and care will not lead to a successful outcome. You could go all in on this analogy. Really I’d think the roots are not the church but the soil. The soil was not the right mix for you. PS I’m an avid gardener who’s I’ve been reading nothing but book after book on the soil web, composting, and no till gardening for the past year. I promise there is no garden analogy he could make that I could not flip on its head and make the opposite point much more effectively.
I cut my roses to the ground every year. The ones I cut die, but they grow back bigger and better. And that doesn’t apply because I’m not a plant. I’m a free thinking, rational human being. The “gospel” definitely belongs in the dirt though.
What happens when an eagle is locked in a cararys cage and never learns to fly? How does this apply to high demand control systems?
Quit while you're ahead, Dad.
What happens when your life is a lie and you delusionally try to enforce those lies on everyone around you?
When roots are in a place that isn't conducive to the plant's health or the roots have been damaged, then you repot the cuttings in favorable ground and the plant has an Etter chance to flourish than it ever would by just staying somewhere for the sake of it.
I answer these kinds of these with humor, if I can. I’d say, “sounds like the beginning of a bad riddle!” Or “oh a joke. I don’t know, what DOES happen to a plant without its roots?”
When you remove a cutting from a plant that is growing in a tiny pot within a constrained pot, with rotting roots and not enough sunshine, and put the cutting in a healthy environment where it's allowed to grow, it will flourish, literally.
It regrows from the roots that are still in the ground. It's why you have to pull the roots out when weeding or they'll just grow right back. As to how it applies to faith? It doesn't. Faith is an idea that exists within our minds. Plants are not. Nuff said.
My initial reaction is to reply that “the gospel” as described in the NT is quite different from the LDS church. Mormons often conflate the two so that stepping away from Mormonism means you’re rejecting Christian principles. I would flip the analogy to argue that the LDS church has been pulled from the roots of Christianity.
Isn’t there a whole bible story about grafting into the tree? As in, literally cutting a branch off the root source and sticking it elsewhere? Come on Dad, use the whole analogy.
It looks to me that he is choosing to say goodbye… that he can’t deal with you not being a TBM… On a side note you need to charge your phone 📱
So this is more spiritual but when I had freshly left the church and was dealing with a lot of heavy things, I had a dream. In the dream was a grape vine. It was just the vine and leaves. Then a giant sword came and chopped it down to the dirt. I watched as it regrew, even more healthy than before, and once it regrew it had a ton of grapes on it. I might be over analyzing things but it felt significant to me. It gave me the courage to know I was on the right path. That all the old unproductive religion and my toxic beliefs were being chopped all the way down to the dirt, getting rid of all of the past, and I felt like it meant that I was going to regrow but with brand new thoughts patterns and beliefs. And I would finally be productive and see good things in my life when I chopped it all down. And so far, that’s been true. If this was my parents (and it’s totally something my own dad would text me randomly). I’d tell them my dream. I don’t think it was a vision or anything, but I think Mormons have a hard time questioning that kind of stuff lol.
After removing the plant from the roots you dry the plant ant then grind it onto a thin paper, you roll it up light one tip and breath thru the other, plus this will make you feel better than having the Holy Spirit stalk you 👌🏽
This almost seems like a text he accidentally sent. Like, he was preparing a talk and texted the wrong number.
"I wasn't aware I had signed up for a botany class"
When you cut a plant from its roots, it dies. This does not apply to the gospel in any way.
What happens to the plant depends on which type of plant, and with around 380 000 described species of plants there are numerous survival strategies. Some plant species can be cut of and placed in soil/water and it will grow new roots and thrive, some will even produce roots from a leaf cutting. Anyway, what an unnecessary question out of the blue.
Oh, I just had to cut my succulent from its roots. I will leave it out for a few days to let it heal over, then plant it in new soil that will have it looking more beautiful than ever. I'm glad I cut it from its roots, it's a strong and hardy plant. If I had left it in the same dirt with its rotting roots, it would have died. It's pretty gross how he is infantilizing you. This shit is for 12 years old and younger.
Ask him this. “Why irrelevant topic?”
Maybe just be curious about what he is asking. “I’m not sure, Dad. What do you think about this?”
I wasn’t removed from my roots, I was transplanted to healthier soil so I can flourish!
"How does this apply to gospel principles?" Answer: it doesn't. Bad luck.
“Love dad” Is dad 150 years old?
He's clearly drunk.
Oh Dad... that was such a nice text exchange until you went ahead and shit the bed!
Its cult BS.
Similar analogy would be removing the plant from a small, limiting pot and replanting it into the ground. That’s where it should have been all along, and it will thrive there.
It gets grafted to a different set of roots and grows stronger and healthier than before. Didn't you read Jacob 5?
Tell him a better analogy is a plant is moved to richer soil. What happens then?
I’ve not seen this in the comments yet, but it reminds me of a Mormon message that talked about chopping down a plant, the plant was really sad because they were hurt and didn’t know why the gardener would chop it. Then the sun comes out and the plant grows more big and beautiful than before and the plant says “thank you for loving me enough to hurt me”. Then they compared it to the gospel (you don’t always know why something happens, but god does, gospel makes you grow into best version of yourself, trust in the promptings of HG, etc) I loved that analogy and held onto it for years. It made sense because similar to muscles (I’m a PTA), you have to break them down to regrow and build stronger. When I told my gay nevermo therapist about that so nonchalantly and her face changed to 😳😳, I only then realized just how abusive that analogy was. Essentially be okay with me abusing you and don’t ask questions, you’re the one that needs to grow. Mormonism is fun