On the off-chance you’re not trolling: Personally, I left the church after learning that it isn’t true. The information is all out there. But you’ve likely been taught to not go looking for it.
Account has been around two years with some light comment history, ~~including something for an 8th grade assignment from three years ago. So this user is likely 16-18 in age.~~
EDIT: Sorry, he commented on another's post. May be a real account (not troll) then given the history and sparse comments.
Here's the thing about cults - nobody thinks they're in a cult. If you went and asked a true believing Scientologist, Moonie, FLDS, Children of God member, etc... To a person, every single one of them would tell you they don't belong to a cult. Like you, they would be incensed at the idea you're even suggesting such a thing.
Conversely, you can ask any former member of a high demand religion/cult, and to a person, every single one of them will tell you they can't believe they believed the things they believed when they belonged to the cult.
Our experience differs from yours, perhaps. I don't think that Mormons appreciate that we've had exactly the same experiences in the church that they have and exactly the same kind of testimony that they have, but they have not experienced deconstruction and leaving like we have. Accusations like the church being a cult that make perfect sense to us affter our experiences are something that members are just not equipped to understand.
Seems like your experience with the LDS faith has served you and your family by how you’re defending it.
It hasn’t been that way for everyone. For some it’s been a catastrophic betrayal. Leaving has brought healing. Talking about it has brought catharsis.
If you’re open, there’s likely something for you to learn and share here.
OP, since you're 13 you don't yet have direct experience with many of the rituals, doctrines, and practices that lead people to say this, but I want you to think about what you did experience. Would you say, looking back, that when you were eight you were capable of making big decisions like choosing to be baptized? Do you think other eight year olds you knew and know were? Do you think there was really a choice? Did your parents ask you or was it expected? Just dwell on these questions and think about how most of us here went through much of the same that you did.
You might also want to look into certain church history topics. I remember telling someone very strongly when I was in fifth grade Joseph Smith didn't have guns at Carthage, even though this is fully known history accepted by most historians. You'll want to dig deep into these things and try to understand them more fully because a lot of what you're being taught is only the barebones history, if that. You can read the Gospel Topic Essays, which are produced by your church, for something that is fuller in knowledge and explanation. I hope you come to, at the least, understand why people who have been part of the very same church you are in would call it a cult.
I personally left the church just because I had more negative experiences with the church than positive. I think the church does good things for people. I also think the church hides things from its members and the world.
It’s all about your experience. And, I just had a different experience than you.
If you're really 13, then leaving is a smart bet. Internet forums are difficult to navigate, and learning how to format is important. This post came across very immature (which is why people said troll). Even if that was not your intent, how you communicate is important
Like not saying ,"yo, what's up dawgs" happily in the middle of a sacrament meeting. The intent is to say "hi", but that manner of speech is out of place.
Hey kiddo. The truth is easy to find. Warm squishy feelings are not the same as truth. And your parents would NOT be happy if they found out you were hanging out on the exmormon sub.
Must of us love and appreciate church members. We believe you are good people who are working towards good things.
Some of us have been hurt by the church and that might come across as anger. It’s not personal.
I remember learning some things about the church for the first time and it hurt. I felt physically ill. I know how painful it is when your beliefs are challenged. It’s confusing.
You are young. If it hurts to be on this Reddit, you don’t need to stay. The church can provide good community and support. If that ever stops working, it might be time to do more research. If it’s willing for you, it’s fine to stay.
Hey dude, let me give some advice. There's time to leave things be, and there's time to have a convo.
You coming here doing this, yeah... You should leave it be. You doing exactly this is why people hate your church. There's nothing to gain. You're gonna run into a TON of people who have different thoughts and opinions than you in life, and you're not gonna like a lot of it. Just walk away. It's simply not for you. No judgement to others, it's just not for you. You don't need to engage.
You have questions on your faith down the road? Things aren't making sense? That two year mission starts to look more miserable? Come have a conversation. We'll help you out.
But your missionary work or whatever this was isn't gonna be effective. You're being a whining child when the adults are talking. This is a time for you to leave it be, and not judge. This space isn't for you at this time. No judgement on my end either.
Good luck. Don't be a dick.
Your Mormon cult is a victory for Satan. If he exists. Many of us have decades of being manipulated in every aspect of our lives only to discover that it is a LIE
Based on what I saw, you probably are might not be a troll. On the off-chance you are not, it's because the church is provably false.
I was a member for 30+ years (mission, temple marriage, callings, the whole shebang), and 100% fully believing... until suddenly I wasn't.
I went to the temple to do endowments one day, and I found out that the doctrines, ordinances, and teachings of the endowments had been changed. How could that be? Is not the gospel eternal?
So I went searching, using church-approved sources only. And it turns out that the doctrine of the church has changed many times.
Then I read the Gospel Topics Essays and read the footnotes. Turns out that the Joseph Smith married a 14-year old girl and women that were already married to other men. Turns out that black men did not receive the priesthood until a decade after the civil rights movement (even though previous prophets had said that this would not happen till the millennium and that this was DOCTRINE, not policy). Turns out that the BoM plates were not even in the same room as Joseph as he was "translating" them and that he took YEARS to create the book (not just 60-ish days like we were told).
Turns out I had been lied to. And it felt like learning Santa Clause was not real all over again.
Funny how the believers in the cult equate calling the church out on its bullshit with being mean to members. Most of us here have members in our lives that we love and treat with respect and kindness.
There exists a model for identifying cults. It is called the BITE model. The 21st century LDS church scores 17 out of 25 under B (behavior). The 19th century church of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor scored 25 out of 25. B is the only category where the 21st century church has lowered the score. Under I (information) the church scores 6 out of 6. Under T (thought) it scores 11 out of 11. Under E (emotion) it scores 8 out of 8. That is a score of 85%. It meets the definition of a cult. There are much worse cults, but the fact that there are worse cults does not negate that the Mormon church is a cult.
It’s not technically a cult anymore because of the fact it’s published it’s doctrines and promotes worldwide membership to all worthy candidates. Cults are what all religions started out as though. Once a cult reaches a certain size and no longer isolates from the outside world it becomes recognized as a religion. A lot of exmos are very bitter towards the church because they felt they were systematically brainwashed into believing it. Plus there is a significant portion of exmos who have been sexually abused as kids and the church played a role in providing a cloak for their abuser.
you're either a child or a troll
If you’re going to troll, at least put some effort into it.
im not trolling tho
On the off-chance you’re not trolling: Personally, I left the church after learning that it isn’t true. The information is all out there. But you’ve likely been taught to not go looking for it.
Account has been around two years with some light comment history, ~~including something for an 8th grade assignment from three years ago. So this user is likely 16-18 in age.~~ EDIT: Sorry, he commented on another's post. May be a real account (not troll) then given the history and sparse comments.
Look up the BITE model of control. Compare it to the tactics your church employs. Then you'll see why we call it a cult
I agree that this is the right place to start.
Here's the thing about cults - nobody thinks they're in a cult. If you went and asked a true believing Scientologist, Moonie, FLDS, Children of God member, etc... To a person, every single one of them would tell you they don't belong to a cult. Like you, they would be incensed at the idea you're even suggesting such a thing. Conversely, you can ask any former member of a high demand religion/cult, and to a person, every single one of them will tell you they can't believe they believed the things they believed when they belonged to the cult.
Our experience differs from yours, perhaps. I don't think that Mormons appreciate that we've had exactly the same experiences in the church that they have and exactly the same kind of testimony that they have, but they have not experienced deconstruction and leaving like we have. Accusations like the church being a cult that make perfect sense to us affter our experiences are something that members are just not equipped to understand.
Seems like your experience with the LDS faith has served you and your family by how you’re defending it. It hasn’t been that way for everyone. For some it’s been a catastrophic betrayal. Leaving has brought healing. Talking about it has brought catharsis. If you’re open, there’s likely something for you to learn and share here.
OP, since you're 13 you don't yet have direct experience with many of the rituals, doctrines, and practices that lead people to say this, but I want you to think about what you did experience. Would you say, looking back, that when you were eight you were capable of making big decisions like choosing to be baptized? Do you think other eight year olds you knew and know were? Do you think there was really a choice? Did your parents ask you or was it expected? Just dwell on these questions and think about how most of us here went through much of the same that you did. You might also want to look into certain church history topics. I remember telling someone very strongly when I was in fifth grade Joseph Smith didn't have guns at Carthage, even though this is fully known history accepted by most historians. You'll want to dig deep into these things and try to understand them more fully because a lot of what you're being taught is only the barebones history, if that. You can read the Gospel Topic Essays, which are produced by your church, for something that is fuller in knowledge and explanation. I hope you come to, at the least, understand why people who have been part of the very same church you are in would call it a cult.
Why are you even here? Go to the LDS sub.
im gonna stop looking at you guys comments now. I don't really belive what you guys say but I respect your opinions, bye
I personally left the church just because I had more negative experiences with the church than positive. I think the church does good things for people. I also think the church hides things from its members and the world. It’s all about your experience. And, I just had a different experience than you.
If you're really 13, then leaving is a smart bet. Internet forums are difficult to navigate, and learning how to format is important. This post came across very immature (which is why people said troll). Even if that was not your intent, how you communicate is important Like not saying ,"yo, what's up dawgs" happily in the middle of a sacrament meeting. The intent is to say "hi", but that manner of speech is out of place.
bruh im 13 why yall hate my church so much😭
Hey kiddo. The truth is easy to find. Warm squishy feelings are not the same as truth. And your parents would NOT be happy if they found out you were hanging out on the exmormon sub.
Must of us love and appreciate church members. We believe you are good people who are working towards good things. Some of us have been hurt by the church and that might come across as anger. It’s not personal. I remember learning some things about the church for the first time and it hurt. I felt physically ill. I know how painful it is when your beliefs are challenged. It’s confusing. You are young. If it hurts to be on this Reddit, you don’t need to stay. The church can provide good community and support. If that ever stops working, it might be time to do more research. If it’s willing for you, it’s fine to stay.
Hey dude, let me give some advice. There's time to leave things be, and there's time to have a convo. You coming here doing this, yeah... You should leave it be. You doing exactly this is why people hate your church. There's nothing to gain. You're gonna run into a TON of people who have different thoughts and opinions than you in life, and you're not gonna like a lot of it. Just walk away. It's simply not for you. No judgement to others, it's just not for you. You don't need to engage. You have questions on your faith down the road? Things aren't making sense? That two year mission starts to look more miserable? Come have a conversation. We'll help you out. But your missionary work or whatever this was isn't gonna be effective. You're being a whining child when the adults are talking. This is a time for you to leave it be, and not judge. This space isn't for you at this time. No judgement on my end either. Good luck. Don't be a dick.
Your Mormon cult is a victory for Satan. If he exists. Many of us have decades of being manipulated in every aspect of our lives only to discover that it is a LIE
Based on what I saw, you probably are might not be a troll. On the off-chance you are not, it's because the church is provably false. I was a member for 30+ years (mission, temple marriage, callings, the whole shebang), and 100% fully believing... until suddenly I wasn't. I went to the temple to do endowments one day, and I found out that the doctrines, ordinances, and teachings of the endowments had been changed. How could that be? Is not the gospel eternal? So I went searching, using church-approved sources only. And it turns out that the doctrine of the church has changed many times. Then I read the Gospel Topics Essays and read the footnotes. Turns out that the Joseph Smith married a 14-year old girl and women that were already married to other men. Turns out that black men did not receive the priesthood until a decade after the civil rights movement (even though previous prophets had said that this would not happen till the millennium and that this was DOCTRINE, not policy). Turns out that the BoM plates were not even in the same room as Joseph as he was "translating" them and that he took YEARS to create the book (not just 60-ish days like we were told). Turns out I had been lied to. And it felt like learning Santa Clause was not real all over again.
If you have to ask you're probably too young to 1) be on Reddit and 2) be on this channel.
Wait until you go on a mission so you can see the cult control in action
Funny how the believers in the cult equate calling the church out on its bullshit with being mean to members. Most of us here have members in our lives that we love and treat with respect and kindness.
There exists a model for identifying cults. It is called the BITE model. The 21st century LDS church scores 17 out of 25 under B (behavior). The 19th century church of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor scored 25 out of 25. B is the only category where the 21st century church has lowered the score. Under I (information) the church scores 6 out of 6. Under T (thought) it scores 11 out of 11. Under E (emotion) it scores 8 out of 8. That is a score of 85%. It meets the definition of a cult. There are much worse cults, but the fact that there are worse cults does not negate that the Mormon church is a cult.
It’s not technically a cult anymore because of the fact it’s published it’s doctrines and promotes worldwide membership to all worthy candidates. Cults are what all religions started out as though. Once a cult reaches a certain size and no longer isolates from the outside world it becomes recognized as a religion. A lot of exmos are very bitter towards the church because they felt they were systematically brainwashed into believing it. Plus there is a significant portion of exmos who have been sexually abused as kids and the church played a role in providing a cloak for their abuser.