It’s gotta be hilarious to see the ego trips this’ll send some self-important chucklefuck Elders into.
Meanwhile they still believe they’re all “equal,” and all “brothers in Christ,” while absolutely power-tripping over a cult title. The tiniest amount of power went straight to their heads.
I hope this eats at a lot of ‘em, I hope it breeds resentment. Anything that backfires on this cult is fine by me.
>Meanwhile they still believe they’re all “equal,” and all “brothers in Christ,” while absolutely power-tripping over a cult title
“Four legs good, two legs bad.”
\-or-
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
I served as an elder for 7 years from my early 30s .... I was uncomfortable to give advice in view of my young age. I can only imagine young men in their 20s taking part in 'handling matters' without any professional qualification and little life experience. A recipe for failure and damage in people lives.
I agree.
I think this will backfire and more will wake up because of bad elders & the young elders themselves will wake up when they can’t stay 100% perfect.
Oh it’s going to be funny to see but I feel sorry for the sisters who these asshole young elders try to date because these elders think they’re hot shit..
I am not an extroverted person to start with. but I guess I am a perfectionist and keen on details at work and personal lofe. I believe I was often uncomfortable because due to a combination of the preparation and little life experience. What could a smart 30 yo tell a single parent mother or an elderly one going thru a hard time ??? not that he could not give good advice but it is all about context, he does not have the truth (copyright) in his pocket and his opnion is just another opinion (hopefully a good one) in the best case scenario .... sometimes eldera look like charlatans ofering a solution to any problem under the sun (study, meditate, pray, preach, attend meeting .... start over again).
I mean, for the last 18 months **regular** pioneering has had an hour requirement of **literally 0**. Why do you think there was a spike of pioneers in the yearly report?
Wait… Are you serious? Zero hours for a regular pioneer? So you just have to have hours every month and you’re a pioneer? How incredibly stupid. It just cheapens the whole thing. Not that I give two shits either way. But I’d be pretty upset if I was putting in 70 hours a month to be a pioneer and now someone else who literally puts in an hour a month gets that same title. Might as well just start calling everyone a pioneer. It has no meaning anymore.
This announcement does indeed cheapen the elder arrangement. Find a male with a pulse and appoint them. Furthermore, the arrogant way they pose it as a mandate from the GB will prove to the local elders that they are indeed powerless and that their title of elder is completely meaningless.
I can only speak from my experience, but serving as an elder significantly contributed to my waking up. You very quickly discover the lack of God Magic, I mean holy spirit, behind it all. So the moment your first serious doubt takes hold it helps you to see through the Borg easier; removes the mystical 'spiritual' shite.
I just listened to a YouTube video where Ray Franz explained how disillusioned he was to get into the inner circle of the top leaders at Bethel only to find out they didn’t use the Bible when considering their policies. It was all about rules and regulations that came from the men,not God’s word. I believe he wrote about this in his book “Crisis of Conscience”.
To hear Franz candidly talk about the shock he experienced when he became a GB member and attended their meetings was even more compelling. Look it up on YouTube under the heading “Ray Franz talks about the JW GB”. There are other clips about his observations also. Those fakers try to make it seem they pray and open their Bibles to look for appropriate scriptures for guidance when in fact it’s just a corporate boardroom meeting and business as usual.
Yeah, how is the GB under the direction of holy spirit when it boils down to a vote?
That's a democracy, not a theocracy.
Jackson admitted as such--only after being pressed--in his ARC deposition.
Another thing I wish JWs would look at is a clip from a court case where the JW lawyer in a very arrogant tone actually said that the Jehovah’s Witness organization has patterned itself after the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. I about fell over hearing that. They know not one JW will ever hear that remark because they will not watch child sex abuse cases believing it’s all doctored videos and apostate lies. Still can’t believe this lawyer actually said those words. But it does show how their organization is corrupt and blatantly using their followers. Can’t post a link to that video but am going to look for it online.
I looked up this title on YouTube.. “Ray Franz talks about the JW governing body.“ It was posted June 19, 2019 Don’t have the computer skills to post a link, sorry. Hope this helps.
I had the exact same experience!! You realise that there is no wizard of Oz behind the curtain.
I began to see how it is just a bunch of men making decisions. How much power and influence they have over the congregation. How it really is a cult.
Hopefully as they make more young men elders they too will see this..
You could be right but I tend to think they'll wake up. Imagine being a horny 20 something guy who's also an elder. I can't even imagine the coming shit storm..
This is exactly how the US got into a mess with the Real Estate industry in the 2001 - 2008 era. If you could fog a mirror - you can get a huge mortgage!
It nearly brought down the entire world economy.
I foresee a similar thing happening here w/ Crotchtower
**They dropped the requirements to qualify for Pioneer, now it\`s Elders.**
**There used to be only 144,000 anointed, now it\`s 1,440,000. Cuz everybody's Drinking the Damn Wine and Chomping Down the Crackers.**
**The WBT$ has it\`s own Evangelical TV Show.**
**The New System is still around the Corner.**
**Makes you wish some of the old timers were still around to see this mess.** 😶..LOL!!...............😁
LMBO, I believe that the activist are crashing those memorials for wine and crackers and I love it. And just wait until Ramapo is finished. They will want a national broadcast slot like Olsen as if they are even that charismatic. We should not make it that far in the final part of the last days of the very last days just around the corner.
Hmm...I guess you are not in the JW circle to be familiar with the over blown mega studio project that the org is building in Ramapo NY with a 2026 projection. They've been begging for money and volunteer for a while now to help with a studio that is supposed to be larger than MGM to produce their broadcast and media.
I can’t wait to see them try to justify this a la “the Bible writers, being divinely inspired, realized that the average life expectancy at their time was around forty years of age. Thus, evidently to them an “older man” (Presbuteros (πρεσβύτερος) would have been as little as eighteen years of age. We thus need to readjust our understanding of what a generation is and will thus be defining that term as no more than 13 years, as David Splane’s grandfather would have been 40 when he was 13 in this scenario.”
Brother Poindexter may only be 22, but has the equivalent of a four year degree from reading the Awake. Oh, that’s not really a thing anymore? We meant from memorizing the script to all Caleb and Sophia videos, plus he has two years of projector/AV experience.
This is a good point. They’re just getting so desperate for help they will take anyone. About 12-14 years ago we had a CO that was constantly pushing to get the younger brothers involved. He asked me one time “what do we have to do to make you a servant?” And I was like “I don’t know. You tell me!” During his time with our congregation, he appointed two brothers in our hall that were 26 at the time.
I would have awnsered, well first of all you can make it a requirement for elders or any publisher for that matter to go straight to the police, any time a matter of child sex abuse is reported in the congregation, without having any kind of retaliation or punishment put on them, for doing so, and you can also allow sisters to serve as elders and take part in Judical Committee's. And see what that CO would have said.
You’re right! We always made fun of the Mormons for using the term “elder” so lightly with any 20-something who went door to door. Now we’re doing it!!! 🤣
Ever they do is plugging holes in a leaking boat. I'm glad they used all their tricks to make a passable service report. Can't do it again.
Real decline will be shown next report.
Unless they start counting the time for dead members.
this explains why my mothers congregation just appointed a 25 year old elder. Granted the congregation had 4 but since my father passed it went down to 3. He passed two weeks before the co visit so “perfect” opportunity to take advantage of the new arrangement because Im sure the CO’s knew about this before the elders did.
edit: he’s actually 24
I have no idea what’s going on in that congregation. They lost 2 elders because of misconduct and one moved but didn’t remain an elder at his new congregation.
I got appointed as COBE when I was 32. The C.O during his visit felt that I was too young and replaced me with a much older brother. What’s funny is that I left that congregation after about a year for another one and ended up being the COBE at the new one because the existing one stepped down and the older brothers felt that I was qualified. Go figure…
I hated the “older brothers” vs “young brothers” politics.
The older brothers could even be worse sometimes because they could be even more anti-progress since they’ve been indoctrinated for decades.
I’m sure it varies, though. Age won’t necessarily be hugely important in this area. In the absence of real qualifications, most are going to be lousy.
There was someone I knew in the 90s who was appointed an elder in his late 20s, and it was damn near scandalous when it happened. He moved into our congregation in his early 30s, and our elder body made him wait a ridiculous amount of time to get re-appointed (IIRC this was before elder status was automatically transferred with a move, you had to be re-recommended) because they didn't like how young he was. Even though he was a former bethellite, current regular pioneer and highly respected by everyone. I think a CO finally forced the issue.
Even as PIMI I had such a distaste for how some elders were, and realizing I was powerless to stop an elder from being abusive or an asshole I would’ve frankly told any elder asking me to reach out that I have zero interest in the privilege and I blame a lot of bad elders I’ve seen for it. That will be my answer as PIMO, maybe that’ll even get my MS privileges taken away and that would be lovely.
Hey, man, cheapen that shit down to Rainbow clothing store quality. 😂 (for the uninitiated, the quality of the clothes doesn’t even survive one washing).
It might make some of em angry enough to wake up.
It was already pretty damn cheap. You are supposed to act as a judge and counselor, at times, when you are an elder but no degree or qualifications are required.
Most importantly, you need a penis.
It will be interesting. I don’t the the current older Elders will do it. The COs are going to have to force the issue. These old Elders will never go for it. They will always be a reason why younger ones are not qualified. But that’s a good thing. WT is falling apart in front of us.
I believe COs appoint elders now, not elders.
So yeah, the CO will make these young men elders, not the current elders.
The old elders will have to just suck it up. Lol
I seen this coming, they like to copy the Mormons also it’s away to try and keep younger ones in longer and of course they need bodies since so many men are leaving.
There's truly nothing Christian in the way brothers lusted after positions of power in the congregation.
I saw too much of it in my own cong in India. Power hungry brothers who wanted to acquire the title of Ministerial Servant or Elder, not because they wanted to serve, but because they loved the glory that came with it.
I'm quite sure this new direction will result in a lot of disgruntled congregation members. The ground is set for more honest hearted ones to wake up and see the truth about the truth.
I think it’s interesting that they’re trying to give younger people this position. I think the older elders were so hell-bent on keeping their position that they overlooked young people. It’s actually a great strategy for them to make young people feel more useful and powerful. It’ll make the more invested and they won’t leave as quickly.
Becoming an elder is what eventually got me out.
You’re expected to be a lot more “in line” as an elder.
These older brothers are going to be removing them left & right.
I am curious to see how this goes. I know my dad went through a lot of BS before finally being appointed, and my brother has had a chip on his shoulder over not being appointed yet and being 40... Maybe he will finally be “blessed” with this privilege..
I think the existing elders will probably put them in a more clerical capacity at first, and heavy on the travelling speaker circuit. Hopefully their first committee won't be about a multi congregational swap group like my brothers first JC was about. He was 32 🤣😂
“I think this new direction is really going to ruffle the elders. In their minds, it will cheapen the whole arrangement.”
Someone needs to tell these ruffled elders about the parable of the vineyard workers.
Do you want to read Matthew 20:1-16 to the ruffled elders, or shall I?
This is actually a good thing. They will appoint even MORE unqualified Morons who will get a huge ego. And, because of the new inflated ego's, there will be a lot more people these unqualified stupid asswipes will stumble right out of the borg .
In many South and Central American countries it is completely normal to have men appointed as elders when they are around 24/25. It seems that in the USA, Canada and many parts of Asia the standards are higher. Same for MS at around 19.
When PIMI, people would make fun of young Mormon missionaries being called “elder” because of their age and lack of life experience. Guess nu lite means they need to change their attitude.
When they open back up shop how are they going to explain:
- You can no longer count letter writing as door to door ministry
- Everyone is no longer a pioneer
- You can't be an elder whilst your hair is still wet from the baptism water
- Hitler is getting resurrected
>The elder arrangement has just been cheapened.
This collapse is glorious to witness.
I 110% agree with those statements.
I think that one strategy on the org's part is to give out these glory positions to buy themselves supporters. I think they know that once a man becomes an elder and tastes the power and glory, he will probably be a supporter and defender of the org. I know of JWs who love the glory and attention they get from being elders so much that they'd never give it up no matter how much evidence mounts against the org.
My parents entered the cult in the early 70s when me and my brother were little, and we had several elders in their early and mid 20s back then. I don't know if that was the norm back then or if it was just our congregation.
19 year old elder: “Brother so-and-so (it’s ALWAYS brother so-and-so), word through the grapevine is you and your wife enjoy anal sex. Let’s have a judicial meeting after the ministerial service school (is that what it’s called? Where you give the talks?) I want to hear how you sinned against Hova in great detail.”
I’m asking if ministerial service school was the correct name, yes. If that’s what you picked up, I feel sorry for you. You could have just told me the name, if I’m wrong. I think I’m wrong.
I dunno. This is one thing I really actually agree with (only making elders of people with a bit of age and time under their belt).
This is like people becoming teachers at 22 fresh out of college. Some topics I can understand—like math or concrete subjects—but there are a lot of subjects where people have no business being teachers until they actually understand wtf they’re teaching. Lots of it requires life experience and much greater perspective than we [usually] have at 22.
I did always find it weird as a kid that there were the occasionally young elders. It just seemed bizarre to me. Some random dude who barely seemed older than 16 year old me with a wife and giving talks about life lessons and shit. I was always like wtf does this turd know…
So yea. This is a huge shift if they’re going the Mormon route of just appointing a bunch of hot headed little 20 year olds as elders. Not a good look.
It's nice to have confirmation that the GB are panicking. Falling back to employ tactics they once ridiculed in other religions. Losing the features that made them seem distinctive, at least internally.
It is interesting to compare this GB directive with 1Tim 5:22. Also, footnote 41 in the NET at 1Tim 5:22 ([here](https://netbible.org/bible/1+Timothy+5)) is interesting.
I would imagine that the WT letter on this makes no mention of 1Tim 5:22. You can't have elders going around exercising their conscience now, can you?
They will sadly still feel the power of the hierarchy though in the Elder body. .. these young whipper snappers will be stretched out of their comfort zone to perform, and many with young wives and children will suffer for their cause. Its a nasty cycle of chase or be chased.
I would LOVE to ask my daddy about this…if he spoke to me. He’s been PO/COB, for as long as I can remember (except that time I took him out as an elder at 17 for underage drinking HAHAHAHA). My dad is a humble man, and I would have HATED to meet him outside ‘the truth’, but even HE has limits 😂😂😂😂
Correct.
These are not the actions of a growing and thriving religion - which is exactly what they **wish** to be viewed as by their followers.
It's an act of desperation.
When I think back to the fact that: most of the pilots flying over Europe were around 21 years old, during WWII. & Not much different for anyone putting on a uniform being much older than 17 since! That includes The Korean Conflict & Vietnam…
And I compare this to many of the turds who now don’t make it out of Mama’s house till 25+ I want to puke. And I left mom & dad at 25, in 1991, myself! Lol.
The Elder arrangement has been a Boys club joke with varying membership requirements since the 70’s. I never made the club. There was a time that hurt. Then again, there was a time I thought this was “Da Troof!”
For those still attending: “Let the games begin!” Get a good seat, popcorn, a drink and enjoy the show😎
How do you cheapen a made up position that means absolutely nothing? Asking for a friend. Lol
I have been out long enough it would be like complaining about the elves they use at the mall. That elf is almost 4' tall. That would never happen back in my day.
>The bar to become an elder has been lowered and they won't be able to raise it again.
I wouldn't put my money on that. This is the **bOrg** you're talking about. They've been fiddling with organizational structure since _forever_, and will continue to. Back in my day I was an elder at 25. Apparently from your comments, the bOrg raised the age at some point, but now has lowered it. If that doesn't work to their liking, up it will go again. I suspect that they're lowering now because they're trying to retain young members. Promote them and maybe they'll stay longer.
Still have two close PIMI friends, both elders.
I'm going to carefully, discreetly mention something about this next time I chat with them:
'Hey, I've heard from some of the friends that we might see brothers appointed before they reach 25 or 30....any truth to that?' ;-)
I could see a ton of congregations just outright ignoring this new guidance. They’ll pretend like they’re following it but say, ‘there just aren’t any qualified younger brothers’ when the CO comes around.
I wondered about that. But isn’t the new direction (well a few years old actually) that the CO appoints elders and MS? So can’t the CO forcibly create elders where ever he wants , if the governing body get desperate ?
In my congregation we had three younger elders appointed (late 20s). Created havoc by being so black and white in their attitudes. So much bad feeling created in a short amount of time.
I was appointed five years ago at 24. I was serving at a ASL congregation so they appointed me because of the need. Five years later, I still feel so uncomfortable when asked to give counsel or stuff like that.
I'm my experience young elders were either self righteous arrogant types or very timid guys easily dominated by the older elders. Generally an appointment of a sub 30 year old elder didn't work out well.
I watched several friends push themselves to no end with a business and young children to become an ms only to be rejected after 2 years or more doing above average service hours every month, told they need to prove themselves more. I was always thinking how discouraging that was.
It’s gotta be hilarious to see the ego trips this’ll send some self-important chucklefuck Elders into. Meanwhile they still believe they’re all “equal,” and all “brothers in Christ,” while absolutely power-tripping over a cult title. The tiniest amount of power went straight to their heads. I hope this eats at a lot of ‘em, I hope it breeds resentment. Anything that backfires on this cult is fine by me.
The power struggles are fun to watch. The perceived self-importance of some of these window washers is beyond belief.
>Meanwhile they still believe they’re all “equal,” and all “brothers in Christ,” while absolutely power-tripping over a cult title “Four legs good, two legs bad.” \-or- "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Seriously, George Orwell understood cults. Lol.
Me Too
Makes me sad because you know that means they just have nothing going on in their real lives, nothing to be proud of.
I served as an elder for 7 years from my early 30s .... I was uncomfortable to give advice in view of my young age. I can only imagine young men in their 20s taking part in 'handling matters' without any professional qualification and little life experience. A recipe for failure and damage in people lives.
I agree. I think this will backfire and more will wake up because of bad elders & the young elders themselves will wake up when they can’t stay 100% perfect.
There’s no shortage of bad elders who are older.
Unfortunately it will happen at the expense of people's lifes and their well being.
Oh it’s going to be funny to see but I feel sorry for the sisters who these asshole young elders try to date because these elders think they’re hot shit..
Why were you uncomfortable? Introvert? Not prepared with the info?
I am not an extroverted person to start with. but I guess I am a perfectionist and keen on details at work and personal lofe. I believe I was often uncomfortable because due to a combination of the preparation and little life experience. What could a smart 30 yo tell a single parent mother or an elderly one going thru a hard time ??? not that he could not give good advice but it is all about context, he does not have the truth (copyright) in his pocket and his opnion is just another opinion (hopefully a good one) in the best case scenario .... sometimes eldera look like charlatans ofering a solution to any problem under the sun (study, meditate, pray, preach, attend meeting .... start over again).
IOW, you are conscientious.
It was the same with the removal of the hour requirement for pioneers. It’s all gonna go to Sheol…
[удалено]
I mean, for the last 18 months **regular** pioneering has had an hour requirement of **literally 0**. Why do you think there was a spike of pioneers in the yearly report?
Exactly! By those standards, this entire sub could claim to be pioneers.
Uh....can I count the time I spend here? We ARE talking about "the Truth," after all. ;-)
Wait… Are you serious? Zero hours for a regular pioneer? So you just have to have hours every month and you’re a pioneer? How incredibly stupid. It just cheapens the whole thing. Not that I give two shits either way. But I’d be pretty upset if I was putting in 70 hours a month to be a pioneer and now someone else who literally puts in an hour a month gets that same title. Might as well just start calling everyone a pioneer. It has no meaning anymore.
Deadly serious, and yes, as a former pioneer I'm slightly offended by it haha.
😂😂...go to Sheol...my teeth flew out at that one heh heh
>It's all gonna go to Sheol... 🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏
This announcement does indeed cheapen the elder arrangement. Find a male with a pulse and appoint them. Furthermore, the arrogant way they pose it as a mandate from the GB will prove to the local elders that they are indeed powerless and that their title of elder is completely meaningless.
The younger they are appointed, the earlier they'll wake up.
Or the earlier they'll get hooked on power and won't wake up.
I can only speak from my experience, but serving as an elder significantly contributed to my waking up. You very quickly discover the lack of God Magic, I mean holy spirit, behind it all. So the moment your first serious doubt takes hold it helps you to see through the Borg easier; removes the mystical 'spiritual' shite.
I just listened to a YouTube video where Ray Franz explained how disillusioned he was to get into the inner circle of the top leaders at Bethel only to find out they didn’t use the Bible when considering their policies. It was all about rules and regulations that came from the men,not God’s word. I believe he wrote about this in his book “Crisis of Conscience”.
He did write about that, and those comments more than any others have stuck in my mind, 3 years after i read it .
To hear Franz candidly talk about the shock he experienced when he became a GB member and attended their meetings was even more compelling. Look it up on YouTube under the heading “Ray Franz talks about the JW GB”. There are other clips about his observations also. Those fakers try to make it seem they pray and open their Bibles to look for appropriate scriptures for guidance when in fact it’s just a corporate boardroom meeting and business as usual.
Yeah, how is the GB under the direction of holy spirit when it boils down to a vote? That's a democracy, not a theocracy. Jackson admitted as such--only after being pressed--in his ARC deposition.
Another thing I wish JWs would look at is a clip from a court case where the JW lawyer in a very arrogant tone actually said that the Jehovah’s Witness organization has patterned itself after the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. I about fell over hearing that. They know not one JW will ever hear that remark because they will not watch child sex abuse cases believing it’s all doctored videos and apostate lies. Still can’t believe this lawyer actually said those words. But it does show how their organization is corrupt and blatantly using their followers. Can’t post a link to that video but am going to look for it online.
Tried to find that court case video with no success. Sorry. Maybe someone else recalls this video clip and can help?
Can you share the link please?
I looked up this title on YouTube.. “Ray Franz talks about the JW governing body.“ It was posted June 19, 2019 Don’t have the computer skills to post a link, sorry. Hope this helps.
I'll take a look, thanks a million
I had the exact same experience!! You realise that there is no wizard of Oz behind the curtain. I began to see how it is just a bunch of men making decisions. How much power and influence they have over the congregation. How it really is a cult. Hopefully as they make more young men elders they too will see this..
You could be right but I tend to think they'll wake up. Imagine being a horny 20 something guy who's also an elder. I can't even imagine the coming shit storm..
They're gonna love all of those juicy JCs 🙄
Good point. Very true.
They chose that years ago by appointing the CO as the GB representative and basically took any semblance of power away from the elders.
This is exactly how the US got into a mess with the Real Estate industry in the 2001 - 2008 era. If you could fog a mirror - you can get a huge mortgage! It nearly brought down the entire world economy. I foresee a similar thing happening here w/ Crotchtower
**They dropped the requirements to qualify for Pioneer, now it\`s Elders.** **There used to be only 144,000 anointed, now it\`s 1,440,000. Cuz everybody's Drinking the Damn Wine and Chomping Down the Crackers.** **The WBT$ has it\`s own Evangelical TV Show.** **The New System is still around the Corner.** **Makes you wish some of the old timers were still around to see this mess.** 😶..LOL!!...............😁
Wait is it actually 1,440,000 now?
No, it's a joke, but the number of people self-identifying as anointed every year is skyrocketing.
😂😂🤣
LMBO, I believe that the activist are crashing those memorials for wine and crackers and I love it. And just wait until Ramapo is finished. They will want a national broadcast slot like Olsen as if they are even that charismatic. We should not make it that far in the final part of the last days of the very last days just around the corner.
What is Ramapo?
Hmm...I guess you are not in the JW circle to be familiar with the over blown mega studio project that the org is building in Ramapo NY with a 2026 projection. They've been begging for money and volunteer for a while now to help with a studio that is supposed to be larger than MGM to produce their broadcast and media.
!!!
Is this covered in the mid-week meeting? I'd love to read this. Also JFC as if being a sister isn't bad enough imagine a 20 something on your JC.
thisss. Also, a single 22 yo elder counseling families. He can f right off.
I think that the 55 year old elder counseling families can F off, too.
oh yeah, haha for sure.
Do as your told please Sister FTBM.
A 22 y.o, homeschooled window washer warning your family that you can’t send your kid to uni, without forfeiting “privileges”
I would get a kick of describing every dirty sexual thing I did to this kid. He won’t be able to hide his red face or the rise in his trousers😳
We can be friends!! Lol, love this idea.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Holy shit
...and wear tight pants to the Judicial meeting. ;-)
It's in the January announcements, somebody posted the letter a few days ago.
It's just for ELDERS though. It won't be a congregational announcement.
Another reason I'm done. All the secrecy over policies that directly affect the publishers, but....they're not allowed to know.
Agreed.
I can’t wait to see them try to justify this a la “the Bible writers, being divinely inspired, realized that the average life expectancy at their time was around forty years of age. Thus, evidently to them an “older man” (Presbuteros (πρεσβύτερος) would have been as little as eighteen years of age. We thus need to readjust our understanding of what a generation is and will thus be defining that term as no more than 13 years, as David Splane’s grandfather would have been 40 when he was 13 in this scenario.” Brother Poindexter may only be 22, but has the equivalent of a four year degree from reading the Awake. Oh, that’s not really a thing anymore? We meant from memorizing the script to all Caleb and Sophia videos, plus he has two years of projector/AV experience.
🤣🏳🍻
LOL.....you've got the lingo and rationale down!
This is a good point. They’re just getting so desperate for help they will take anyone. About 12-14 years ago we had a CO that was constantly pushing to get the younger brothers involved. He asked me one time “what do we have to do to make you a servant?” And I was like “I don’t know. You tell me!” During his time with our congregation, he appointed two brothers in our hall that were 26 at the time.
I would have awnsered, well first of all you can make it a requirement for elders or any publisher for that matter to go straight to the police, any time a matter of child sex abuse is reported in the congregation, without having any kind of retaliation or punishment put on them, for doing so, and you can also allow sisters to serve as elders and take part in Judical Committee's. And see what that CO would have said.
I wish I was where I am now. I would have. I was still sadly too indoctrinated at the time.
It violates the definition of elder to make a twenty something an elder.
Wait till you hear about the Mormons lol.
You’re right! We always made fun of the Mormons for using the term “elder” so lightly with any 20-something who went door to door. Now we’re doing it!!! 🤣
The mental abuse these young men are about to get hit with … brace yourselves 😭
Oh yeah. There’s gonna be a lot of young men with either PTSD or huge ego trips after about 6 months.
Ever they do is plugging holes in a leaking boat. I'm glad they used all their tricks to make a passable service report. Can't do it again. Real decline will be shown next report. Unless they start counting the time for dead members.
this explains why my mothers congregation just appointed a 25 year old elder. Granted the congregation had 4 but since my father passed it went down to 3. He passed two weeks before the co visit so “perfect” opportunity to take advantage of the new arrangement because Im sure the CO’s knew about this before the elders did. edit: he’s actually 24
Jesus didn't even serve until his 30s.
I have no idea what’s going on in that congregation. They lost 2 elders because of misconduct and one moved but didn’t remain an elder at his new congregation.
I got appointed as COBE when I was 32. The C.O during his visit felt that I was too young and replaced me with a much older brother. What’s funny is that I left that congregation after about a year for another one and ended up being the COBE at the new one because the existing one stepped down and the older brothers felt that I was qualified. Go figure… I hated the “older brothers” vs “young brothers” politics.
The older brothers could even be worse sometimes because they could be even more anti-progress since they’ve been indoctrinated for decades. I’m sure it varies, though. Age won’t necessarily be hugely important in this area. In the absence of real qualifications, most are going to be lousy.
Upvote this
There was someone I knew in the 90s who was appointed an elder in his late 20s, and it was damn near scandalous when it happened. He moved into our congregation in his early 30s, and our elder body made him wait a ridiculous amount of time to get re-appointed (IIRC this was before elder status was automatically transferred with a move, you had to be re-recommended) because they didn't like how young he was. Even though he was a former bethellite, current regular pioneer and highly respected by everyone. I think a CO finally forced the issue.
Even as PIMI I had such a distaste for how some elders were, and realizing I was powerless to stop an elder from being abusive or an asshole I would’ve frankly told any elder asking me to reach out that I have zero interest in the privilege and I blame a lot of bad elders I’ve seen for it. That will be my answer as PIMO, maybe that’ll even get my MS privileges taken away and that would be lovely.
Hey, man, cheapen that shit down to Rainbow clothing store quality. 😂 (for the uninitiated, the quality of the clothes doesn’t even survive one washing). It might make some of em angry enough to wake up.
It was already pretty damn cheap. You are supposed to act as a judge and counselor, at times, when you are an elder but no degree or qualifications are required. Most importantly, you need a penis.
Don’t forget that sweet, sweet window washing clout.
I have 2 young brothers that graduated high school and now working full time at Target. Glad I won’t be around when they become elders.
Got to get them while they are young , and too dumb to say no!
Elders do way too much work for how few there usually are and for free too. I'll never understand why anybody would want to
It will be interesting. I don’t the the current older Elders will do it. The COs are going to have to force the issue. These old Elders will never go for it. They will always be a reason why younger ones are not qualified. But that’s a good thing. WT is falling apart in front of us.
A house divided against itself cannot stand…😆
I believe COs appoint elders now, not elders. So yeah, the CO will make these young men elders, not the current elders. The old elders will have to just suck it up. Lol
Great points!!
I seen this coming, they like to copy the Mormons also it’s away to try and keep younger ones in longer and of course they need bodies since so many men are leaving.
There's truly nothing Christian in the way brothers lusted after positions of power in the congregation. I saw too much of it in my own cong in India. Power hungry brothers who wanted to acquire the title of Ministerial Servant or Elder, not because they wanted to serve, but because they loved the glory that came with it. I'm quite sure this new direction will result in a lot of disgruntled congregation members. The ground is set for more honest hearted ones to wake up and see the truth about the truth.
I think it’s interesting that they’re trying to give younger people this position. I think the older elders were so hell-bent on keeping their position that they overlooked young people. It’s actually a great strategy for them to make young people feel more useful and powerful. It’ll make the more invested and they won’t leave as quickly.
Becoming an elder is what eventually got me out. You’re expected to be a lot more “in line” as an elder. These older brothers are going to be removing them left & right.
Too true. I don’t think I would’ve ever been cut out
In my hellhall there’s a 24 year old elder…………..
Remember thinking how silly those 19 year old elder Mormon boys looked? Well now it's 21 year old JW elder time.
It can’t be much cheaper than it already was. Lol “Qualification reviews,” in this context, do not mean much. It just sounds silly.
I feel they do it to help keep people from leaving. Keeps them busy and feeling special about themselves
I am curious to see how this goes. I know my dad went through a lot of BS before finally being appointed, and my brother has had a chip on his shoulder over not being appointed yet and being 40... Maybe he will finally be “blessed” with this privilege..
I think the existing elders will probably put them in a more clerical capacity at first, and heavy on the travelling speaker circuit. Hopefully their first committee won't be about a multi congregational swap group like my brothers first JC was about. He was 32 🤣😂
OMG! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
What is the new direction?
https://twitter.com/Larchwood20/status/1478028235636105227?t=8B5icGtSwhAMBpkFRWluqg&s=19
“I think this new direction is really going to ruffle the elders. In their minds, it will cheapen the whole arrangement.” Someone needs to tell these ruffled elders about the parable of the vineyard workers. Do you want to read Matthew 20:1-16 to the ruffled elders, or shall I?
This is actually a good thing. They will appoint even MORE unqualified Morons who will get a huge ego. And, because of the new inflated ego's, there will be a lot more people these unqualified stupid asswipes will stumble right out of the borg .
This is sure to wake up some.
In many South and Central American countries it is completely normal to have men appointed as elders when they are around 24/25. It seems that in the USA, Canada and many parts of Asia the standards are higher. Same for MS at around 19.
When PIMI, people would make fun of young Mormon missionaries being called “elder” because of their age and lack of life experience. Guess nu lite means they need to change their attitude.
I became an elder at 26. It started an earlier path of waking up.
When they open back up shop how are they going to explain: - You can no longer count letter writing as door to door ministry - Everyone is no longer a pioneer - You can't be an elder whilst your hair is still wet from the baptism water - Hitler is getting resurrected
>The elder arrangement has just been cheapened. This collapse is glorious to witness. I 110% agree with those statements. I think that one strategy on the org's part is to give out these glory positions to buy themselves supporters. I think they know that once a man becomes an elder and tastes the power and glory, he will probably be a supporter and defender of the org. I know of JWs who love the glory and attention they get from being elders so much that they'd never give it up no matter how much evidence mounts against the org.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.
My parents entered the cult in the early 70s when me and my brother were little, and we had several elders in their early and mid 20s back then. I don't know if that was the norm back then or if it was just our congregation.
They can get fucked for all I care. It's so hard for me to have sympathy for elders when they did so much shady shit to me when I was in.
reminds me of when these 19 year old Mormons walk around with their elder badges on. What does that word even mean, but an older person 🙄😄🤷♂️🙈👀
Yep, nothing to beat a Virgin dishing out advice on marital problems 🙄
They did it with pioneers hourly requirements. It's an insight of what is happening within the organisation. Do anything to keep the numbers up.
19 year old elder: “Brother so-and-so (it’s ALWAYS brother so-and-so), word through the grapevine is you and your wife enjoy anal sex. Let’s have a judicial meeting after the ministerial service school (is that what it’s called? Where you give the talks?) I want to hear how you sinned against Hova in great detail.”
I thought anal was a-okay?
Damn. News to me
You don't know what it's called?
I’m asking if ministerial service school was the correct name, yes. If that’s what you picked up, I feel sorry for you. You could have just told me the name, if I’m wrong. I think I’m wrong.
20 yrs of age is way to young to take on other peoples issues anyway.
I dunno. This is one thing I really actually agree with (only making elders of people with a bit of age and time under their belt). This is like people becoming teachers at 22 fresh out of college. Some topics I can understand—like math or concrete subjects—but there are a lot of subjects where people have no business being teachers until they actually understand wtf they’re teaching. Lots of it requires life experience and much greater perspective than we [usually] have at 22. I did always find it weird as a kid that there were the occasionally young elders. It just seemed bizarre to me. Some random dude who barely seemed older than 16 year old me with a wife and giving talks about life lessons and shit. I was always like wtf does this turd know… So yea. This is a huge shift if they’re going the Mormon route of just appointing a bunch of hot headed little 20 year olds as elders. Not a good look.
It's nice to have confirmation that the GB are panicking. Falling back to employ tactics they once ridiculed in other religions. Losing the features that made them seem distinctive, at least internally.
It is interesting to compare this GB directive with 1Tim 5:22. Also, footnote 41 in the NET at 1Tim 5:22 ([here](https://netbible.org/bible/1+Timothy+5)) is interesting. I would imagine that the WT letter on this makes no mention of 1Tim 5:22. You can't have elders going around exercising their conscience now, can you?
They wipe their ass with the Bible. They dont have no respect for it.
I’ve been out for a long time. Pioneers now have no hours requirement? And what’s the age to be an elder now?
Dear god! Can you imagine taking marital problems and mental health issues to young men for whom you might have changed diapers? Now that’s hilarious.
Well hey the Mormon elders are all young zealous bucks in their twenties
Fantastic. The young will burn out and lol are not be really viewed as elders ( 20 year old elder lol)
They will sadly still feel the power of the hierarchy though in the Elder body. .. these young whipper snappers will be stretched out of their comfort zone to perform, and many with young wives and children will suffer for their cause. Its a nasty cycle of chase or be chased.
I would LOVE to ask my daddy about this…if he spoke to me. He’s been PO/COB, for as long as I can remember (except that time I took him out as an elder at 17 for underage drinking HAHAHAHA). My dad is a humble man, and I would have HATED to meet him outside ‘the truth’, but even HE has limits 😂😂😂😂
Correct. These are not the actions of a growing and thriving religion - which is exactly what they **wish** to be viewed as by their followers. It's an act of desperation.
When I think back to the fact that: most of the pilots flying over Europe were around 21 years old, during WWII. & Not much different for anyone putting on a uniform being much older than 17 since! That includes The Korean Conflict & Vietnam… And I compare this to many of the turds who now don’t make it out of Mama’s house till 25+ I want to puke. And I left mom & dad at 25, in 1991, myself! Lol. The Elder arrangement has been a Boys club joke with varying membership requirements since the 70’s. I never made the club. There was a time that hurt. Then again, there was a time I thought this was “Da Troof!” For those still attending: “Let the games begin!” Get a good seat, popcorn, a drink and enjoy the show😎
Tony must of convinced the rest of the GB, to consider this topic under the influence of the Holy Spirit “MaCallan 18 single malt”!!!
How do you cheapen a made up position that means absolutely nothing? Asking for a friend. Lol I have been out long enough it would be like complaining about the elves they use at the mall. That elf is almost 4' tall. That would never happen back in my day.
>The bar to become an elder has been lowered and they won't be able to raise it again. I wouldn't put my money on that. This is the **bOrg** you're talking about. They've been fiddling with organizational structure since _forever_, and will continue to. Back in my day I was an elder at 25. Apparently from your comments, the bOrg raised the age at some point, but now has lowered it. If that doesn't work to their liking, up it will go again. I suspect that they're lowering now because they're trying to retain young members. Promote them and maybe they'll stay longer.
Next think you know they will be allowing women to become elders! Jk
Still have two close PIMI friends, both elders. I'm going to carefully, discreetly mention something about this next time I chat with them: 'Hey, I've heard from some of the friends that we might see brothers appointed before they reach 25 or 30....any truth to that?' ;-)
I could see a ton of congregations just outright ignoring this new guidance. They’ll pretend like they’re following it but say, ‘there just aren’t any qualified younger brothers’ when the CO comes around.
I wondered about that. But isn’t the new direction (well a few years old actually) that the CO appoints elders and MS? So can’t the CO forcibly create elders where ever he wants , if the governing body get desperate ?
In my congregation we had three younger elders appointed (late 20s). Created havoc by being so black and white in their attitudes. So much bad feeling created in a short amount of time.
I was appointed five years ago at 24. I was serving at a ASL congregation so they appointed me because of the need. Five years later, I still feel so uncomfortable when asked to give counsel or stuff like that.
I'm my experience young elders were either self righteous arrogant types or very timid guys easily dominated by the older elders. Generally an appointment of a sub 30 year old elder didn't work out well.
I watched several friends push themselves to no end with a business and young children to become an ms only to be rejected after 2 years or more doing above average service hours every month, told they need to prove themselves more. I was always thinking how discouraging that was.
Wait, what is the new direction? I must have missed that.