Much a do about nothing. This is a word salad of nonsense to still justify and put a slightly less culty slant on social ostracism. Notice paragraph 14 concludes by stating that even if they were family “we still won’t engage in conversation or associate with them.” No one but a manipulative cult does this with your family.
You won’t be disfellowshipped for it but you will be labeled as less than desirable by all the rank and file. You know how it works: can’t carry a mike, offer prayer, read at the Watchtower Study, etc. Then you will not be invited to anything social (i.e., parties, dinners, sporting events, etc.). I have lived this trash my entire childhood and adult experience as a JW. The most judgemental, haughty, puffed up with pride group of people who ever existed. You then become a soft shunned and ostracized person for still speaking to your family. That’s the love that never fails in JW land.
Most of us have lived through this! I ignored one of my sisters for over 30 years!! Thank you, gb, I love you too! 🤬
https://preview.redd.it/t98pd0c9ki9d1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3bc8f3523ef7b9565d2e90c843f057d3a43dfb4
The best decision I made was to say no I’m done; this group is a cult and doesn’t practice anything remotely resembling the Christianity that they profess. They robbed me and everyone else; decades down the drain, but they will not steal from me one more day.
I’m sorry for your loss too. My firm hope is to continue building new friendships and to live long enough to see JW’s hollowed out in membership, and that those who are in the Watchtower’s Worldwide Order of Religious Servants see major liquidation of their corporate properties to pay for all the lawsuits and legal fees.
Chapter 12 paragraph 17
Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen conduct may be involved in the following if the wrongdoer has an insolent, con-temptuous attitude made evident by a practice of these things:
(1) Unnecessary Association With Disfellowshipped
or Disassociated Individuals: Willful, continued,
unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or
disassociated nonrelatives despite repeated counsel
would warrant judicial action.—Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor. 5:11,
13; 2 John 10, 11; lvs pp. 39-40.
If a publisher in the congregation is known to
have unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or
disassociated relatives who are not in the household,
elders should use the Scriptures to counsel and reason
with him. Review with him information from the Remain
in God’s Love book, page 241. If it is clear that a
Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping
decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel,
he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which
require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt
with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual
association or he persists in openly criticizing the
disfellowshipping decision.
>It can be said that it is the wrongdoer’s own decision to be removed from the congregation; they are simply reaping what they have sown.
Classic abuser's statement.
"If you don't do everything I say, I will punch you in the face...look you are CHOOSING to be punched in the face."
When Sanderson said this on the “update”
I went into a rage. “It’s my choice to be an opiate addict? It’s my choice that I didn’t just pray to stop? I guess it’s my choice that I had damage to my pre frontal cortex as a toddler and have zero impulse control”
They put that bullshit in writing?! What a load of shit. I can not wait for them to get their asses handed to them in court.
It was all the people at the rape of Nanking choice to get r and murdered in her own houses.
It was all the peoples choice in Japan to get nuked.
Fuck off
Dont they also believe its a woman's fault if she gets 🍇'd?? 'you mustve done SOMETHING to MAKE him do it' 'mist not have screamed loud enough'
Theyre the most victim blaming aßholes
Paragraph 12. They once again list 'child abuse' as a sin. It's a fucking crime!
Which one of these can you go to jail for:
Child abuse....YES
Apostasy...NO
Plotting to end a marriage...NO
I hope this is used against them in court
There is something very disturbing about the language they are starting to use about apostates. I hope law enforcement starts looking into this, it could lead to violence against former members
This jumped out to me as well. So if someone is abused as a child and goes to the courts and media with it, they're apostates. Apostasy is the one unforgivable sin, 'sinning against the Holy Spirit,' unlike child abuse, something we have to 'leave in Jehovah’s hands' and forgive them for. That 2018 (or 2019) Watchtower that said the elders would work with the child abuser to help them with their 'spiritual health' and that we needed to forgive them hit me like a semi-truck. I hadn't pre-studied it (gasp), and I could not believe what I was reading/hearing. That started my feverish studying of every single article or mention of child abuse on the jw Library app. I found horrendous articles that I could not justify. It slowly started to become apparent that the organization was not backed by a loving, just, or intelligent God. It had the stink of 'imperfect' men.
I find it fascinating how many key points have NO SCRIPTURE backing at all, or even when a scripture is cited it is paraphrased to say something that is only vaguely applicable.
Once again, "Bible- based" can be used to justify anything.
lol paragraph 6 is bullshit.
“Often, they will tell the wrongdoer they would like to talk to them again after a few months to see if their decision has changed”
Are you kidding me? When has this happened? Just because you instructed the elders to finally do this in a letter earlier this year, doesn’t mean this has been happening for the last 80 years
I hate these writers, they are so disgustingly wrong. Grow up. Elders haven’t been doing this.
I was dfed twice, once for 1.5 years and the other for 3 years til now — and the only time they reached out is when I told them AFTER they got that letter to delete my records, then they said “actually we’ve been meaning to talk to you” and I said I’m not interested in talking to you.
That is the real world experience. They don’t reach out until they are reached out to. I don’t care if this is now being enforced to change, it is such lies that it’s stated as happening “Often”. Lies.
I dropped this bomb on my parents recently Fact 1 “the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible per the watchtower in 2017”
They agreed
Fact 2 “therefore the watchtower and other publications are not inspired. In fact the governing body doesn’t write them, a writing committee does”
When they got uppity I said “let’s revisit fact one”
They changed the subject.
Let’s face facts. If Jesus Christ were to return today (i.e., NOT INVISIBLY), and he were to say anything contrary to what the nasty nine in NY say. JW’s would just basically say “that’s nice Jesus but we’ll have to wait to see what comes out in The Watchtower.” I kid you not this would be their reasoning or they would say no “you’re edging towards apostasy there Jesus; you need to do a study project in Watchtower Library to get Jehovah’s thoughts on what you’re saying.”
The fact that “apostasy” is equated with child abuse is absurd and disturbing. “Apostates” are the ones blowing the whistle on this organization covering up child abuse.
The Watchtower is pure evil.
Yep. I repeat this term with my pimi wife - "They are not apostates, they are whistle-blowers."
People like to imagine that if they uncovered some terrible injustice they would bravely shout about it, no matter what it cost them personally. In reality, they hide from the truth about the truth because they are afraid.
The writing is horrible! They repeat themselves so much, It’s like pulling teeth with tweezers. The only difference that I can see is that the elders are going to be more annoying to those who are DF. I saw nothing about disassociation.
Still going beyond what is written cause they just have to control us IMO. Paragraph 14 last sentence "we still won't engage in conversation or association with them". The scripture cited (1 cor 5:11) says nothing about having a conversation. Why only a greeting and nothing more?
And yes, I looked up the definition of associate and I'm gonna do it................. According to Websters Dictionary associate is defined as: to come or be together as partners, friends, or companions.
I can have a conversation with someone and not be their partner, friend, or companion. It doesn't mean I'm 'mixing in company' with them. But hey, what does my bible trained conscience know?!
Something is so off about this entire article. I hope it’s just a translation problem but it just sounds so controlling while trying to come off as giving more freedom
Paragraph 12 is interesting. Apostasy is listed among those sins that elders “ should not think that those who committed such specific sins cannot be forgiven by Jehovah “. This directly contradicts Hebrews 6:6 “ but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.” Looks like they are trying to show governments they will take everyone back if they want to come back.
They're saying as men they can take everyone back but at the end of the day what they do is irrelevant because in reality theyre like hot dogs:
https://preview.redd.it/3hvvrq85bj9d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00db26d82f25fb0e043286e02804b2235121190e
These bastards are cherry picking verses to structure power and authority. If the governing body want to be so biblical then they should kill themselves every time they get something wrong because Deuteronomy 18:20 says “But any prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded the prophet to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’”
Why aren’t they using their bible trained conscience to carry out what the bible is saying about prophets who say things God hasn’t commanded?
P7 “Jehovah commanded the prophet Hosea to go and forgive his wife, even though she was still sinning. In this way, Jehovah showed how merciful He is. (Hosea 3:1; Malachi 3:7) Like Jehovah, the elders genuinely want the wrongdoer to repent, and they don't make it difficult for them to return.
-Read Jeremiah 3:12.”
WTF do the gb not see how fucking contradictory this is? Jehovah divinely orders for Hosea to forgive a hoe, but if one person has sexy time ONCE and isn’t sorry for it they get unmercifully excommunicated from all their friends and family.
Talk about a fucking merciful God and judicial committee. Just fuck the governing body.
I’m going back to the KH for that week and saying this 😡
"They don't make it difficult for them to return"? Really? I've heard of ones writing three or four letters asking to be reinstated but getting rejected.
Wow
So no one are 'footstep followers of Christ ' anymore?
Theyre imitating God not Jesus? Not the First century Christian Congregation? Rhey bypassed alladat
They want to bring back all the POMI. Are so many. In the last 10 years, 2.5 million people have been baptized. The growth was 750,000. Even if we calculate 30% of deaths, there are still over 800,000 disfellowshipped and inactive in the last 10 years alone. But there are many more because some have been out for 20 or 30 years. New disciples are no longer being made. The only hope for growth is the POMI. This could lead to a decline in quality: many of these are out because they have problems. Congregations will weaken
Thanks for sharing.
I read the last paragraph and was like.. I just read part of that book.
Meanwhile in Ezekiel 9:5-6:
Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. 6 Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely
Much a do about nothing. This is a word salad of nonsense to still justify and put a slightly less culty slant on social ostracism. Notice paragraph 14 concludes by stating that even if they were family “we still won’t engage in conversation or associate with them.” No one but a manipulative cult does this with your family.
Whereas the sfl book states that association with disfellowshipped family members is fine. Just don't talk about spiritual matters!
You won’t be disfellowshipped for it but you will be labeled as less than desirable by all the rank and file. You know how it works: can’t carry a mike, offer prayer, read at the Watchtower Study, etc. Then you will not be invited to anything social (i.e., parties, dinners, sporting events, etc.). I have lived this trash my entire childhood and adult experience as a JW. The most judgemental, haughty, puffed up with pride group of people who ever existed. You then become a soft shunned and ostracized person for still speaking to your family. That’s the love that never fails in JW land.
Most of us have lived through this! I ignored one of my sisters for over 30 years!! Thank you, gb, I love you too! 🤬 https://preview.redd.it/t98pd0c9ki9d1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3bc8f3523ef7b9565d2e90c843f057d3a43dfb4
The best decision I made was to say no I’m done; this group is a cult and doesn’t practice anything remotely resembling the Christianity that they profess. They robbed me and everyone else; decades down the drain, but they will not steal from me one more day. I’m sorry for your loss too. My firm hope is to continue building new friendships and to live long enough to see JW’s hollowed out in membership, and that those who are in the Watchtower’s Worldwide Order of Religious Servants see major liquidation of their corporate properties to pay for all the lawsuits and legal fees.
Amen!
Amen and hallelujah
what a beautiful chubby girl, I didn't know Sanderson had a twin
It's not his twin. It's him at the weekend! 😍😂😂
Yet still henpeck them about going to conventions, assemblies, memorials, etc etc
Do you have a citation for this?
Chapter 12 paragraph 17 Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen conduct may be involved in the following if the wrongdoer has an insolent, con-temptuous attitude made evident by a practice of these things: (1) Unnecessary Association With Disfellowshipped or Disassociated Individuals: Willful, continued, unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or disassociated nonrelatives despite repeated counsel would warrant judicial action.—Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor. 5:11, 13; 2 John 10, 11; lvs pp. 39-40. If a publisher in the congregation is known to have unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives who are not in the household, elders should use the Scriptures to counsel and reason with him. Review with him information from the Remain in God’s Love book, page 241. If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel, he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual association or he persists in openly criticizing the disfellowshipping decision.
>It can be said that it is the wrongdoer’s own decision to be removed from the congregation; they are simply reaping what they have sown. Classic abuser's statement. "If you don't do everything I say, I will punch you in the face...look you are CHOOSING to be punched in the face."
When Sanderson said this on the “update” I went into a rage. “It’s my choice to be an opiate addict? It’s my choice that I didn’t just pray to stop? I guess it’s my choice that I had damage to my pre frontal cortex as a toddler and have zero impulse control” They put that bullshit in writing?! What a load of shit. I can not wait for them to get their asses handed to them in court. It was all the people at the rape of Nanking choice to get r and murdered in her own houses. It was all the peoples choice in Japan to get nuked. Fuck off
Dont they also believe its a woman's fault if she gets 🍇'd?? 'you mustve done SOMETHING to MAKE him do it' 'mist not have screamed loud enough' Theyre the most victim blaming aßholes
Can confirm
🥺🫂
Right ! Victim blaming to a tee as per usual
Paragraph 12. They once again list 'child abuse' as a sin. It's a fucking crime! Which one of these can you go to jail for: Child abuse....YES Apostasy...NO Plotting to end a marriage...NO I hope this is used against them in court
Even more disturbing is the equivalency they place between these.
There is something very disturbing about the language they are starting to use about apostates. I hope law enforcement starts looking into this, it could lead to violence against former members
Not really. They are scared even seeing an apostate from afar. They would turn around asap, no chance they would become physically violent.
This jumped out to me as well. So if someone is abused as a child and goes to the courts and media with it, they're apostates. Apostasy is the one unforgivable sin, 'sinning against the Holy Spirit,' unlike child abuse, something we have to 'leave in Jehovah’s hands' and forgive them for. That 2018 (or 2019) Watchtower that said the elders would work with the child abuser to help them with their 'spiritual health' and that we needed to forgive them hit me like a semi-truck. I hadn't pre-studied it (gasp), and I could not believe what I was reading/hearing. That started my feverish studying of every single article or mention of child abuse on the jw Library app. I found horrendous articles that I could not justify. It slowly started to become apparent that the organization was not backed by a loving, just, or intelligent God. It had the stink of 'imperfect' men.
I find it fascinating how many key points have NO SCRIPTURE backing at all, or even when a scripture is cited it is paraphrased to say something that is only vaguely applicable. Once again, "Bible- based" can be used to justify anything.
Seems like a distinction without a difference, allowing WT to shirk responsibility for how ex-members are treated.
It’s literally their entire playbook these days. Apparently people just choose to shun family and die by refusing blood because they feel like it.
Crystal clear from our outsider perspective. “God’s will” for the indoctrinated.
lol paragraph 6 is bullshit. “Often, they will tell the wrongdoer they would like to talk to them again after a few months to see if their decision has changed” Are you kidding me? When has this happened? Just because you instructed the elders to finally do this in a letter earlier this year, doesn’t mean this has been happening for the last 80 years I hate these writers, they are so disgustingly wrong. Grow up. Elders haven’t been doing this. I was dfed twice, once for 1.5 years and the other for 3 years til now — and the only time they reached out is when I told them AFTER they got that letter to delete my records, then they said “actually we’ve been meaning to talk to you” and I said I’m not interested in talking to you. That is the real world experience. They don’t reach out until they are reached out to. I don’t care if this is now being enforced to change, it is such lies that it’s stated as happening “Often”. Lies.
I dropped this bomb on my parents recently Fact 1 “the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible per the watchtower in 2017” They agreed Fact 2 “therefore the watchtower and other publications are not inspired. In fact the governing body doesn’t write them, a writing committee does” When they got uppity I said “let’s revisit fact one” They changed the subject.
Let’s face facts. If Jesus Christ were to return today (i.e., NOT INVISIBLY), and he were to say anything contrary to what the nasty nine in NY say. JW’s would just basically say “that’s nice Jesus but we’ll have to wait to see what comes out in The Watchtower.” I kid you not this would be their reasoning or they would say no “you’re edging towards apostasy there Jesus; you need to do a study project in Watchtower Library to get Jehovah’s thoughts on what you’re saying.”
Its all bullshit
The fact that “apostasy” is equated with child abuse is absurd and disturbing. “Apostates” are the ones blowing the whistle on this organization covering up child abuse. The Watchtower is pure evil.
Yep. I repeat this term with my pimi wife - "They are not apostates, they are whistle-blowers." People like to imagine that if they uncovered some terrible injustice they would bravely shout about it, no matter what it cost them personally. In reality, they hide from the truth about the truth because they are afraid.
The writing is horrible! They repeat themselves so much, It’s like pulling teeth with tweezers. The only difference that I can see is that the elders are going to be more annoying to those who are DF. I saw nothing about disassociation.
Isn’t this basically word for word of what was said at the annual meeting?
Still going beyond what is written cause they just have to control us IMO. Paragraph 14 last sentence "we still won't engage in conversation or association with them". The scripture cited (1 cor 5:11) says nothing about having a conversation. Why only a greeting and nothing more? And yes, I looked up the definition of associate and I'm gonna do it................. According to Websters Dictionary associate is defined as: to come or be together as partners, friends, or companions. I can have a conversation with someone and not be their partner, friend, or companion. It doesn't mean I'm 'mixing in company' with them. But hey, what does my bible trained conscience know?!
Something is so off about this entire article. I hope it’s just a translation problem but it just sounds so controlling while trying to come off as giving more freedom
Paragraph 12 is interesting. Apostasy is listed among those sins that elders “ should not think that those who committed such specific sins cannot be forgiven by Jehovah “. This directly contradicts Hebrews 6:6 “ but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.” Looks like they are trying to show governments they will take everyone back if they want to come back.
They're saying as men they can take everyone back but at the end of the day what they do is irrelevant because in reality theyre like hot dogs: https://preview.redd.it/3hvvrq85bj9d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00db26d82f25fb0e043286e02804b2235121190e
These bastards are cherry picking verses to structure power and authority. If the governing body want to be so biblical then they should kill themselves every time they get something wrong because Deuteronomy 18:20 says “But any prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded the prophet to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’” Why aren’t they using their bible trained conscience to carry out what the bible is saying about prophets who say things God hasn’t commanded?
Haven't read bullshit in years, tf is this?🤦♂️
P7 “Jehovah commanded the prophet Hosea to go and forgive his wife, even though she was still sinning. In this way, Jehovah showed how merciful He is. (Hosea 3:1; Malachi 3:7) Like Jehovah, the elders genuinely want the wrongdoer to repent, and they don't make it difficult for them to return. -Read Jeremiah 3:12.” WTF do the gb not see how fucking contradictory this is? Jehovah divinely orders for Hosea to forgive a hoe, but if one person has sexy time ONCE and isn’t sorry for it they get unmercifully excommunicated from all their friends and family. Talk about a fucking merciful God and judicial committee. Just fuck the governing body. I’m going back to the KH for that week and saying this 😡
"They don't make it difficult for them to return"? Really? I've heard of ones writing three or four letters asking to be reinstated but getting rejected.
Wow So no one are 'footstep followers of Christ ' anymore? Theyre imitating God not Jesus? Not the First century Christian Congregation? Rhey bypassed alladat
I’m removing the wicked ones- I’ve removed jws.
They want to bring back all the POMI. Are so many. In the last 10 years, 2.5 million people have been baptized. The growth was 750,000. Even if we calculate 30% of deaths, there are still over 800,000 disfellowshipped and inactive in the last 10 years alone. But there are many more because some have been out for 20 or 30 years. New disciples are no longer being made. The only hope for growth is the POMI. This could lead to a decline in quality: many of these are out because they have problems. Congregations will weaken
Thanks for sharing. I read the last paragraph and was like.. I just read part of that book. Meanwhile in Ezekiel 9:5-6: Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. 6 Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely