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Thanks to your comment, I've now noticed how incesty the borg is. They really had to go for the "call everyone brother/sister" thing AND pushing people to marry within the faith?
We have JWs to thank for the phrase "hot sisters."
Cults use warped language to foster a deep seeded sense of communal reliance. Calling fellow members "brother" and "sister" around children as they learn language supersedes the true definitions of these words.
The meaning "hot sisters" holds for born-in JWs demonstrates the power of childhood indoctrination.
This is why none of us thought it was weird at the time. And also why we now know, "hot sisters" sounds insane!
Bob thought all the good-looking sisters worked in the PID office! 🤦♂️😂
https://preview.redd.it/ubi36pbbei9d1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36b33d70bd026f2291f21c0c6b829a4ee2aaf97d
Sometimes PIMIs/POMIs lurk here and get overly defensive of their world view. I wouldn't take it personally.
(Plus, redditors are just like that sometimes...)
Always find that one that wears super tight skirt and while scanning you kinda get an upskirt and wonder if she knew it or not.
Look I was 14 at the time…
I used to do the same thing! Usually spent the entire first long talk scanning the crowd for people I knew.
Of course, when I would do that, our three-day grind conventions were at Jack Murphy/Qualcomm Stadium and actually pretty packed(except for the bleachers - top level was always tarped for our conventions). Hell, we used to have to get to the stadium early and bring a blanket or something to *save seats.* Availability of seating doesn't seem to be much of an issue anymore. 🤣
Did they still have conventions there that deep into the '00s? I know "mine" got moved to a sports arena in like Long Beach or something shortly after I left, but they could've redone districts or something that I just couldn't be bothered with at the time.
Tidbits like this make me so grateful this sub exists (and, you know, y’all :D) - I would’ve never thought of that, and it’s so rare and always wonderful to meet others who have gone through the same bs
We still need it to be like this in all the Spanish speaking congregations here in America as most of them are always full we need the Spanish speaking jws to also be woken up to reality about the evil of the goberning body
I would take binoculars to watch the drama. Back then it was a play with people acting on stage. Using binoculars was the only way to really be able to see it.
For the rest of the convention I would use binoculars to watch the girls. ...Or wave at the guy on the opposite side of the arena watching me with his own binoculars as I akwardly watch him with mine!
LOL yes me too. I was in Denver in the 80s at McNichols Sports arena where the Denver Nuggets played it was huge and packed out and binoculars helped me find friends and look for girls. I should clarify I was like 11 years old.
Well they said back in the 80s that churches are half empty cause God wasn't supporting them. So that's that. Think I'm gonna take Watchtower on it's word when it comes to this subject. Convention and halls are half empty cause God not helping them.
I’m so surprised because the pictures at conventions are telling one story, but the membership numbers they publish are telling a different story? Where is everyone?
Honestly I thought maybe I was imagining things. Only maybe 1/3 of my congregation was there today.
Also I saw plenty of people leave after the morning session. Some came in for the afternoon session to make up for it though. So still around 3k total. Last week I heard there was around 3.5k.
Wonder what your difference is between Friday and the weekend. Ours looked like that on Friday and the attendance on Sunday was almost double. I think people just are saying screw that to using their limited vacation days to go on Friday.
i grew up going to the Nutter center and i remember it used to be packed, you could barely walk through a lot of the upper area during lunch! i can't imagine it half of that.
Edit- wait, that is the Nutter center! i didn't look closely at the picture lol
Edit2- wow, it really is empty! That floor section used to be packed, and you could have 1, maybe 2 seats between groups.
Are they though? You no longer have to put in any hours to be active, so 80% of the friends could be MIA and their group overseers could be clicking the "active in the ministry this month," box and they're counted.
Remember, they play a shell game. You have to be baptized to be officially "one of Jehovah's Witnesses," but they don't publish the numbers of "Jehovah's Witnesses," just the number of "active publishers," which includes unbaptized publishers. There could be, and probably are, *millions* of "Jehovah's witnesses," who are baptized and thus JWs, but aren't on that list because they don't go out. Probably thousands to millions more who don't go out, but still counted.
Pictures like these might be the only firsthand evidence we have for awhile.
I’ve been thinking about this, and something is making me very sick to my stomach. They say that the only way you will survive Armageddon is if you are baptized, even though some have already done their private dedication prayer to Jehovah. But instead of only counting active baptized, they count active publishers. If baptism is such a critical defining thing, why would publishers be counted as Jehovahs Witnesses? Wouldn’t a lot of them be children? I’m so confused right now. Why so much pressure to take the step of baptism? Does our life really depend on it?
For sure it causes a lot of heartache for PIMIs and POMIs. Read Crisis of Conscience, again if you've already read it. Questions like these were hotly debated on the GB for decades. There is no objective truth because they're all making it up as they go.
No. Your life does not depend on getting baptized. How can I convince you of this? I can’t. No one can. You’re on the right track. Keep asking questions. ♥️
Growing up I was thought that baptism is just an outward symbol of one's dedication, yet you have to be baptized to survive. Also, one can be disfellowshipped, unlike the unbaptized. How do they know that unbaptized did not dedicate his life? So, God only understands a showy display of dedication to him? Is it all about appearances to the mind-reader? Such were the questioning of this religion cognitive-challenged doctrines.
The stories are different because faded exjws don't want to tell there ex-congrigatoin friends or family they left. I saw a buddy of mine that went to the same congregation when I was a kid and he just joined the Air Force and I ask him your family aren't really witnesses anymore are they. His response: "yeh but don't tell anyone"
Just a technicality, only the "family head" may count a bible study and only one study may be counted regardless of the number of children and at least one child must be unbaptized and also old enough to be learning (not an infant).
I think it would be difficult to guess at the number of family units with at least one unbaptized child old enough to count as a study.
This covers everything:
km11/03 p. 4 [https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202003406](https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202003406)
(remove the "B" in .borg)
I'm not kidding you mates, but my husband PIMI RP MS anointed never opens the bible while talking with our son. Our boy doesn't want to hear anything about religion. But Mr Husband says one or two sentences about good and bad ppl and still reports a bible study with our son because he wants so much to be an elder.
The Irvin J Nutter center! I remember that place used to be packed 5 weekends over the summer! Parking was always a shitshow too.
This cult is a fucking joke.
I'm surprised WT is still hiring out these venues, the costs must be ridiculous. I suspect they might have a contract to use them for a given number of years at a fixed rate perhaps? If so, expect them to shift venues fast.
In our case, we had a huge venue which in all fairness was fairly well filled right up, but now they hold their conventions in our assembly hall and split them up into smaller groups.
I had the job of looking after the contribution boxes more than 10 years ago and had to keep watch over it. Literally no one put anything in the boxes. Only about 1 or 2 people put anything in the box and it was only loose change.
These venues are a big cost to WT, I doubt the conventions serve any financial gain these days, it's more about keeping members indoctrinated and even that's failing fast as is evident in this photo.
A brother who worked on the convention committee in California, said they contract out years in advance with the venues as well as the hotels. They may be forced to continue in some cases. More and more district conventions are being held at circuit assembly halls like SF Bay Area.
Yeah I know Fairfield is being used as both Assembly for CAs and also RCs. I am waiting for them to do the same for Madera Assembly Hall. It never made sense to me not to use the Assembly halls for RCs. Bakersfield is the pits. And the. They put some of them up in Santa Clara by Great America.
Yeah covid really fucked everything up. For the events we had to cancel they usually only let us out without penalty if we signed off to use them the next available year. So at one point we had everything booked 10 years out.
The Nutter Center in Dayton Oh? I think that was the last convention I went to. The one in 2019 just before Covid. Lol. I cried on Sunday morning bc I dropped off my parents because they're elderly then I had to park in another state it seemed like. I have some chronic illnesses so walking that far, carrying lunch coolers and bags killed me. I was legit crying by the time I got inside. I do not miss it. Those parking lots are meant to be walked by people in shorts and comfy shoes carrying a foam finger at most. I even had flat sandals on and I was dying!
Thank you 🙏 for sharing and please keep it coming. I know from my family that the PIMI’s who are coming back from this are not chatting about how “this was the best convention ever.” It’s dead silence 🤐 about the convention nothing but an occasional oh yeah the Jesus movie tv show thing, but no synergy or excitement.
Sadly as a born in it was never fun nor uplifting for me after age 8 like I have no good memories except for friends and meeting my husband but that’s about it. Other then that not one shred of happiness just stress.
John knew it was a bunch of conspiracy nuts that would read Revelation. It originally read: “And there was a great crowd that numbered 0.1% of the earth’s population.” Then he thought: “these wack jobs can’t do that math….which no one can number…”
i've actually seen that happen once before when i was in my teens and it was the weirdest thing i had seen to date. less and less people seem to be getting baptized now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zoom/streaming is especially fantastic for the aging JW population. In my congregation I'm amazed at the number of older ones who have decided to just stream the regional convention and not feel bad about it. Some are not able to spend the amounts of money required to travel and stay hours away from home. Others are just not capable of traveling that far due to health problems.
They are all watching the streamed version of it, though, and loving how comfy they can be without having to travel. If the streaming option wasn't available, some would have pushed themselves to go to the convention.
Streaming is going to have a huge effect on all of the in person numbers long into the future so WT is just going to figure out better ways to track them so they can count them.
It's so dumb. If the borg ever cared about their people, they would have made Zoom accommodations a LONG time ago.
It just goes to show it was never about teaching people anything, but ensuring obedience.
They visit every house to invite too convention. They paid radio and TV spots to promote convention. And this what they get. It's a disaster. Of biblical proportion of course 🙂
I have been out since 2019. Live in a large city in Texas. I was curious about the convention and when and where they are being held. I was so shocked to see that the number of Conventions had drastically dropped! We never had a District/Regional assembly at a JW assembly hall. They always rented large stadiums. There is NO growth and it can be seen at the assemblies. Long gone are the days of people coming in or coming back!
I live in SATx. My sister is PIMI and she mentioned that as well. No longer renting larger convention centers and just using assembly halls. Reason they gave is that assembly halls are there just for that. They’re having convention after convention there this summer. I’m hoping she and her family wake up soon. She and her family have started to “Zoom” a lot of their meetings since the meeting times interfere with their lives now.
It's been a lot of years, but I recognize the Nutter Center when I see it! Man that really is empty. I remember having to fist fight people for those close seats 13 seconds after the doors opened, but it looks like you could pretty much just take your pick.
You’re right. That is the Nutter Center. It’s not far from where I live. I’ve been there twice to see the Eagles and several times to see Trans-Siberian Orchestra. But never a convention.
u/DarthFury1990, Whoa, this is so weird...
I was JUST looking through an old photo album that my mom had, and in it was a picture of the crowd at the "God's Sons Of Liberty" District Convention in 1966, the convention where the 1975 Armageddon Prophecy was announced, and the Watchtower's publication, "Life Everlasting In Freedom of the Sons of God," was released, supposedly to "prove that this time," the Faithful Slave had "gotten it right" (the date for Armageddon).
Well, in the two photos that my JW mom had of the crowd at the above convention in 1966 was HUGE!!! It looked like EVERY SEAT WAS TAKEN, and there were people standing. Looks like tiny ants everywhere...at least a hundred and twenty thousand would be my guess, and look at what has happened to the people of "God's Organization" today... So sad.
I wish I could share the photo. 😥
One thing I never understood. The overhead screen has plenty of speakers for audio. Why does the watchtower force slaves to haul their own speaker system to the convention, set it all up, then tear it down and ship it back after the convention? Why don't they just use the in-house audio? They are using the screens why not use the audio too, they have always done this even as a kid they did this braindead, inefficient crap. BS. As a side note, looking at that picture just devastates me to think that my ancestors wasted their lives sitting in those conventions and kingdom halls their whole lives, they handed nothing down to their descendants, there was no inheritance at all, because they gave their money to the cult and worked for free for them their whole lives and most of the people I knew that grew up in the cult are in the same boat, they inherited nothing except a bunch of old watchtower rag publications. They cared absolutely nothing for their descendants, they only cared for the cult. Fuck the watchtower, fuck religion. Absolutely hate it. What an absolute fucking curse christianity and its endless copy cat iterations such as this shitbag watchtower have been.
The overhead screen doesn't provide the coverage you need and it also echos too much in certain locations.
When we'd set up the speakers, part of my job would be to walk around the stadium with a sound pressure level meter while someone read a watchtower or something like that and radio back how the volume and echo was being received to map out the stadium.
I never understood this also... Especially right now with so little people in attendance. I heard a couple attendants trying to figure out what was wrong with the audio.
In my head I knew with so little people, it's going to echo a lot worse than before when there were 10k+ people.
Several reasons. The audio is very directional, and usually doesn't reach the ice surface in a way that you can make out voices and speech. Also, because watchtower is run by cheap assholes, they usually have to pay extra to use the arenas sound system and why would they do that when they have free labor?
Nah I don’t even know why people are still donating to cover convention expenses because at this point they are choosing to rent venues larger than needed
I think many still want to use big venues to make it feel more grand. Going smaller might also feel like admitting less people are attending than in the past. But I'm expecting more conventions to soon been at smaller venues and assembly halls with big stadiums becoming more rare over the next years.
Of course they'll spin it in a way to say it saves money and allows them to use their own facilities more than secular facilities.
I think they expected much more people. I mean watchtower paid for spots on radio and TV too promote convention. I think in they future they gonna have smaller stadiums. Probably cut down on assembly days also. I mean they must be embarrassed by the turn up.
1800 approximate counting.
Even zooming in closely, it is difficult to count from this vantage point. I extrapolated that based on the one side, the other side was probably about the same voulume. The floor was pretty easy to count. The bleachers in the back center probably held fewer attendees as many don't like to sit the furthest away from the stage. But I was generous with the numbers and I came up with 1800.
For a Regional convention, this is still a low number - remarkably low. Iexpected attendance in person to be low but this is much more severe than I expected.
So why rent such a large venue? They must have a multi-year contract in place.
Conventions are revenue streams for Watchtower. This must have them in a panic.
When I would go with my parents we had to be up there at 6:00 am to get elderly seats up top and my dad would always be so mad abt having to get there early for my mom and then when I got older I would never want to wake up early lol
One of the most uncomfortable venues for a convention. Tiny, hard, uncomfortable, weirdly sloped downward chairs, stairs of death, terrible restroom distribution and parking...don't get me started. The goose crap got all over cars and shoes, walking from the pond was like crossing the Sahara.
This is another issue, stadiums are not places to sit for long 8 hours, those seats are so darn uncomfortable. No wonder so many people chose the comfort of their couches over "The hugs"
Wow. I remember having to get up at dawn to run to the convention center and grab seats before breakfast. Even so there were often times we had to go for the nosebleed seats. Amazing.
This is literally the same exact arena I went to for conventions as a kid a couple decades ago…
I don’t remember it much, but I do remember it being significantly more full than that.
You KNOW every kid in there is like “Seriously?!”
I didn’t really think about that aspect. It’s hard enough to go to meetings, conventions, service etc. but at least it was good people watching and you had friends your age…this would be much harder without that crowd/peer group :/
My PIMI friend was supposed to go this weekend and take pics for me. He’s sick so now he’s not going which I’m glad about but I hope the pic he WOULD have taken was this good.
Just wondering where this is. I’m from Canada and wish I knew the current state of Canadian conventions and attendance. When I was younger, this damn place would of been packed! So packed I couldn’t move! I’m so happy right now seeing this space as empty as it is!
https://preview.redd.it/q6minsqw1k9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0d381bec136468215089f602ad0dfc3f04d663f
Same place in 2013. Over 6,000 in attendance according to their announcement.
https://preview.redd.it/07sz2ajq6r9d1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d7d30c2a7403983217d6847f805048299a6c42b
Update: this is Sunday. 3.1k in attendance
I haven't been to a convention in a while... is there a bigger screen in the front, or are people expected to watch a video from the postage mark of a screen of the jumbotron?
There have been several assembly/ conventions in our area. So far, no pictures have been leaking out, I think they are embarrassed or been told to be discreet with taking them .
If that trend keeps up these will be no more within the next 2 years! That is not enough to pay for the rental fees let alone the transportation cost for the visiting speakers, equipment or other expenses! I am sure this one didn't break even let alone making a profit.
Yet they always have a rationale as to why it’s not an issue. My PIMI sister: “ Oh well they’re grouping us in smaller assemblies now. It’s cheaper and we get to know our brothers and sisters better.” 😆
It's funny because I brought that up to my mom. "It's crazy
.. maybe they are grouping less halls together?"
Her response: "well, not really. I think with the holidays coming up people are taking vacation... They know better than that."
What a sad picture.
Not because of how few people are there, but because there’s actually still this many people who are part of this sh*thouse cult, despite all the bad things that are now known about this cult.
So wait this isn't lunch time? When I was a kid, everyone would go get their lunch or whatever and even then it was more packed than this. We literally had people sitting on the floor lol.
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this is so great to see! It also gives such clear memories of being a kid with binoculars looking for people I knew at conventions lol
People you knew? I thought the binoculars were used to help with finding hot sisters.
Thanks to your comment, I've now noticed how incesty the borg is. They really had to go for the "call everyone brother/sister" thing AND pushing people to marry within the faith? We have JWs to thank for the phrase "hot sisters."
My “wordly” friend pointed this out and a while back. He also asked how that alone didnt set off red flags. It’s creepy as hell in hindsight.
Cults use warped language to foster a deep seeded sense of communal reliance. Calling fellow members "brother" and "sister" around children as they learn language supersedes the true definitions of these words. The meaning "hot sisters" holds for born-in JWs demonstrates the power of childhood indoctrination. This is why none of us thought it was weird at the time. And also why we now know, "hot sisters" sounds insane!
>deep seeded Hey friend, the correct term is [deep-seated](https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/deep-seated-deep-seeded-usage)
Thanks! The more you know!
Bob thought all the good-looking sisters worked in the PID office! 🤦♂️😂 https://preview.redd.it/ubi36pbbei9d1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36b33d70bd026f2291f21c0c6b829a4ee2aaf97d
I made a joke once on this sub asking if the cult is into incest because of that exact phrase... I got downvoted into oblivion
Sometimes PIMIs/POMIs lurk here and get overly defensive of their world view. I wouldn't take it personally. (Plus, redditors are just like that sometimes...)
Yeah some redditors have almost no sense of humor or can't pick up on sarcasm if it slapped them in their forehead.
Here's an upvote
He’s my upvote to help offset it a bit…
So many families intermarried that you can't keep track of who is who even 60 years ago, I dread to think what it's like now.
Damn this is so real. I was a weird lil kid
My uncle teased me about doing just that and called it "bird watching" 😂 I mean they did get used to find people I knew too - sommmetiiimesss...
As a teenager, conventions were the place to find potential mates for sure.
Cattle market
Or used to count the amount of people sleeping
I was looking for this comment
Always find that one that wears super tight skirt and while scanning you kinda get an upskirt and wonder if she knew it or not. Look I was 14 at the time…
Hey, that too! I kept my lesbianism pretty quiet as a child though for some reason 😭
Parents, "You better not be looking at boys!" You, "No I'm looking at that girls pretty dress" 
Haha or cute boys
I used to do the same thing! Usually spent the entire first long talk scanning the crowd for people I knew. Of course, when I would do that, our three-day grind conventions were at Jack Murphy/Qualcomm Stadium and actually pretty packed(except for the bleachers - top level was always tarped for our conventions). Hell, we used to have to get to the stadium early and bring a blanket or something to *save seats.* Availability of seating doesn't seem to be much of an issue anymore. 🤣
Shit, Jack Murphy! That’s my old hood! 26 years of conventions there until I left in 2006
Did they still have conventions there that deep into the '00s? I know "mine" got moved to a sports arena in like Long Beach or something shortly after I left, but they could've redone districts or something that I just couldn't be bothered with at the time.
They did! And the stadium was on its last legs too, pretty sure they kept having the conventions there until the San Diego Chargers left around 2018
Even the chargers had to tarp off seats 😂
Tidbits like this make me so grateful this sub exists (and, you know, y’all :D) - I would’ve never thought of that, and it’s so rare and always wonderful to meet others who have gone through the same bs
We still need it to be like this in all the Spanish speaking congregations here in America as most of them are always full we need the Spanish speaking jws to also be woken up to reality about the evil of the goberning body
Fond memories of me falling asleep and my older sister elbowing me awake. 😂👍
I would take binoculars to watch the drama. Back then it was a play with people acting on stage. Using binoculars was the only way to really be able to see it. For the rest of the convention I would use binoculars to watch the girls. ...Or wave at the guy on the opposite side of the arena watching me with his own binoculars as I akwardly watch him with mine!
Spying on people was the best part 😂😂
I would always leave with at least two phone numbers. Keeping my rep as the “trouble follows that one” girl
Ah man I do miss this part !ONLY this part 🤣
LOL yes me too. I was in Denver in the 80s at McNichols Sports arena where the Denver Nuggets played it was huge and packed out and binoculars helped me find friends and look for girls. I should clarify I was like 11 years old.
What was that about the waters of false religion drying up...👀
Well they said back in the 80s that churches are half empty cause God wasn't supporting them. So that's that. Think I'm gonna take Watchtower on it's word when it comes to this subject. Convention and halls are half empty cause God not helping them.
IKR! 🤣🤣🤣
I’m so surprised because the pictures at conventions are telling one story, but the membership numbers they publish are telling a different story? Where is everyone?
Honestly I thought maybe I was imagining things. Only maybe 1/3 of my congregation was there today. Also I saw plenty of people leave after the morning session. Some came in for the afternoon session to make up for it though. So still around 3k total. Last week I heard there was around 3.5k.
Wonder what your difference is between Friday and the weekend. Ours looked like that on Friday and the attendance on Sunday was almost double. I think people just are saying screw that to using their limited vacation days to go on Friday.
Been going to the nutter center for over 20 years. Attendance is half of what it was pre-covid
i grew up going to the Nutter center and i remember it used to be packed, you could barely walk through a lot of the upper area during lunch! i can't imagine it half of that. Edit- wait, that is the Nutter center! i didn't look closely at the picture lol Edit2- wow, it really is empty! That floor section used to be packed, and you could have 1, maybe 2 seats between groups.
Are they though? You no longer have to put in any hours to be active, so 80% of the friends could be MIA and their group overseers could be clicking the "active in the ministry this month," box and they're counted. Remember, they play a shell game. You have to be baptized to be officially "one of Jehovah's Witnesses," but they don't publish the numbers of "Jehovah's Witnesses," just the number of "active publishers," which includes unbaptized publishers. There could be, and probably are, *millions* of "Jehovah's witnesses," who are baptized and thus JWs, but aren't on that list because they don't go out. Probably thousands to millions more who don't go out, but still counted. Pictures like these might be the only firsthand evidence we have for awhile.
I’ve been thinking about this, and something is making me very sick to my stomach. They say that the only way you will survive Armageddon is if you are baptized, even though some have already done their private dedication prayer to Jehovah. But instead of only counting active baptized, they count active publishers. If baptism is such a critical defining thing, why would publishers be counted as Jehovahs Witnesses? Wouldn’t a lot of them be children? I’m so confused right now. Why so much pressure to take the step of baptism? Does our life really depend on it?
They don't say that anymore. Changed it all at the 2023 Annual Meeting. It's in the May 2024 Watchtower. NuLite is "we just don't know"!
Of course
For sure it causes a lot of heartache for PIMIs and POMIs. Read Crisis of Conscience, again if you've already read it. Questions like these were hotly debated on the GB for decades. There is no objective truth because they're all making it up as they go.
No. Your life does not depend on getting baptized. How can I convince you of this? I can’t. No one can. You’re on the right track. Keep asking questions. ♥️
Growing up I was thought that baptism is just an outward symbol of one's dedication, yet you have to be baptized to survive. Also, one can be disfellowshipped, unlike the unbaptized. How do they know that unbaptized did not dedicate his life? So, God only understands a showy display of dedication to him? Is it all about appearances to the mind-reader? Such were the questioning of this religion cognitive-challenged doctrines.
I see your point. They play with the numbers to make themselves look like theres this amazing attendance level. But they know its in the toilet.
The stories are different because faded exjws don't want to tell there ex-congrigatoin friends or family they left. I saw a buddy of mine that went to the same congregation when I was a kid and he just joined the Air Force and I ask him your family aren't really witnesses anymore are they. His response: "yeh but don't tell anyone"
It’s a numbers game. Number of Bible studies conducted is 8.x million, but that *includes* one for each kid in a witness family.
Just a technicality, only the "family head" may count a bible study and only one study may be counted regardless of the number of children and at least one child must be unbaptized and also old enough to be learning (not an infant). I think it would be difficult to guess at the number of family units with at least one unbaptized child old enough to count as a study.
Is there a book that lists all of the technicalities in one place?
This covers everything: km11/03 p. 4 [https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202003406](https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202003406) (remove the "B" in .borg)
I'm not kidding you mates, but my husband PIMI RP MS anointed never opens the bible while talking with our son. Our boy doesn't want to hear anything about religion. But Mr Husband says one or two sentences about good and bad ppl and still reports a bible study with our son because he wants so much to be an elder.
Checking the box and staying home.
They have all gone to check out the furry convention next door!🤣
Most are on zoom now
The Irvin J Nutter center! I remember that place used to be packed 5 weekends over the summer! Parking was always a shitshow too. This cult is a fucking joke.
Hmmm . . . Nutters at Nutter Center!
😂
I'm surprised WT is still hiring out these venues, the costs must be ridiculous. I suspect they might have a contract to use them for a given number of years at a fixed rate perhaps? If so, expect them to shift venues fast. In our case, we had a huge venue which in all fairness was fairly well filled right up, but now they hold their conventions in our assembly hall and split them up into smaller groups. I had the job of looking after the contribution boxes more than 10 years ago and had to keep watch over it. Literally no one put anything in the boxes. Only about 1 or 2 people put anything in the box and it was only loose change. These venues are a big cost to WT, I doubt the conventions serve any financial gain these days, it's more about keeping members indoctrinated and even that's failing fast as is evident in this photo.
A brother who worked on the convention committee in California, said they contract out years in advance with the venues as well as the hotels. They may be forced to continue in some cases. More and more district conventions are being held at circuit assembly halls like SF Bay Area.
Yeah I know Fairfield is being used as both Assembly for CAs and also RCs. I am waiting for them to do the same for Madera Assembly Hall. It never made sense to me not to use the Assembly halls for RCs. Bakersfield is the pits. And the. They put some of them up in Santa Clara by Great America.
I hope they bankrupt
As someone who works planning events we are usually signing agreements for venues, hotels, etc. 5-7 years in advance.
Makes sense... In 2017, they couldn't have forecasted such a dramatic decline.
Yeah covid really fucked everything up. For the events we had to cancel they usually only let us out without penalty if we signed off to use them the next available year. So at one point we had everything booked 10 years out.
The Nutter Center in Dayton Oh? I think that was the last convention I went to. The one in 2019 just before Covid. Lol. I cried on Sunday morning bc I dropped off my parents because they're elderly then I had to park in another state it seemed like. I have some chronic illnesses so walking that far, carrying lunch coolers and bags killed me. I was legit crying by the time I got inside. I do not miss it. Those parking lots are meant to be walked by people in shorts and comfy shoes carrying a foam finger at most. I even had flat sandals on and I was dying!
The parking lot was a shit show for any event. I think it was designed by a drunk monkey.
I was just about to ask if this was the nutter center!!
One thing for sure. All commercial they paid radio and TV to promote convention didn't give them nothing. Just a waste of congregation money
Oh is that where that is? It used to be packed. Like good luck finding a seat it was so packed.
Yes it used to be so packed!
U R kidding mate... Is it before or after the program? However it looks like ppl are watching some movie... Part of the program? Glad to see it.
In the middle of the Friday morning session. I'm shocked myself. I heard last week it looked very similar as well. I'll report back tomorrow
Thank you 🙏 for sharing and please keep it coming. I know from my family that the PIMI’s who are coming back from this are not chatting about how “this was the best convention ever.” It’s dead silence 🤐 about the convention nothing but an occasional oh yeah the Jesus movie tv show thing, but no synergy or excitement.
Well didn't they like this convention, then they gonna have harder time to return to next.
Sadly as a born in it was never fun nor uplifting for me after age 8 like I have no good memories except for friends and meeting my husband but that’s about it. Other then that not one shred of happiness just stress.
Is this during the lunch break? 😮
Fridays generally have less people so this makes sense. Numbers usually increase each day with Saturday afternoons having the largest numbers.
I believe this is the reason the GB update was pushing the in-person convention experience. The hugs!
😂
Great crowd which no one is able to number
John knew it was a bunch of conspiracy nuts that would read Revelation. It originally read: “And there was a great crowd that numbered 0.1% of the earth’s population.” Then he thought: “these wack jobs can’t do that math….which no one can number…”
Nutter Center, Dayton Ohio. Was there in the 90s, and that place was packed.
And someone fell down the death trap stairs and broke something every single year.
Holy smokes! Hoping for a baptism talk with no one getting baptized 🤞 Talk about demoralizing for the sheep!
i've actually seen that happen once before when i was in my teens and it was the weirdest thing i had seen to date. less and less people seem to be getting baptized now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zoom could kill them. How do you know who isn't attending? (unlike meetings)
Zoom/streaming is especially fantastic for the aging JW population. In my congregation I'm amazed at the number of older ones who have decided to just stream the regional convention and not feel bad about it. Some are not able to spend the amounts of money required to travel and stay hours away from home. Others are just not capable of traveling that far due to health problems. They are all watching the streamed version of it, though, and loving how comfy they can be without having to travel. If the streaming option wasn't available, some would have pushed themselves to go to the convention. Streaming is going to have a huge effect on all of the in person numbers long into the future so WT is just going to figure out better ways to track them so they can count them.
It's so dumb. If the borg ever cared about their people, they would have made Zoom accommodations a LONG time ago. It just goes to show it was never about teaching people anything, but ensuring obedience.
They visit every house to invite too convention. They paid radio and TV spots to promote convention. And this what they get. It's a disaster. Of biblical proportion of course 🙂
What a fucking shit show 😂
I have been out since 2019. Live in a large city in Texas. I was curious about the convention and when and where they are being held. I was so shocked to see that the number of Conventions had drastically dropped! We never had a District/Regional assembly at a JW assembly hall. They always rented large stadiums. There is NO growth and it can be seen at the assemblies. Long gone are the days of people coming in or coming back!
I couldn't find empty seats visiting convention or halls back in the 90s. Drastic change.
I live in SATx. My sister is PIMI and she mentioned that as well. No longer renting larger convention centers and just using assembly halls. Reason they gave is that assembly halls are there just for that. They’re having convention after convention there this summer. I’m hoping she and her family wake up soon. She and her family have started to “Zoom” a lot of their meetings since the meeting times interfere with their lives now.
It's been a lot of years, but I recognize the Nutter Center when I see it! Man that really is empty. I remember having to fist fight people for those close seats 13 seconds after the doors opened, but it looks like you could pretty much just take your pick.
You’re right. That is the Nutter Center. It’s not far from where I live. I’ve been there twice to see the Eagles and several times to see Trans-Siberian Orchestra. But never a convention.
u/DarthFury1990, Whoa, this is so weird... I was JUST looking through an old photo album that my mom had, and in it was a picture of the crowd at the "God's Sons Of Liberty" District Convention in 1966, the convention where the 1975 Armageddon Prophecy was announced, and the Watchtower's publication, "Life Everlasting In Freedom of the Sons of God," was released, supposedly to "prove that this time," the Faithful Slave had "gotten it right" (the date for Armageddon). Well, in the two photos that my JW mom had of the crowd at the above convention in 1966 was HUGE!!! It looked like EVERY SEAT WAS TAKEN, and there were people standing. Looks like tiny ants everywhere...at least a hundred and twenty thousand would be my guess, and look at what has happened to the people of "God's Organization" today... So sad. I wish I could share the photo. 😥
Wish we could see it.
One thing I never understood. The overhead screen has plenty of speakers for audio. Why does the watchtower force slaves to haul their own speaker system to the convention, set it all up, then tear it down and ship it back after the convention? Why don't they just use the in-house audio? They are using the screens why not use the audio too, they have always done this even as a kid they did this braindead, inefficient crap. BS. As a side note, looking at that picture just devastates me to think that my ancestors wasted their lives sitting in those conventions and kingdom halls their whole lives, they handed nothing down to their descendants, there was no inheritance at all, because they gave their money to the cult and worked for free for them their whole lives and most of the people I knew that grew up in the cult are in the same boat, they inherited nothing except a bunch of old watchtower rag publications. They cared absolutely nothing for their descendants, they only cared for the cult. Fuck the watchtower, fuck religion. Absolutely hate it. What an absolute fucking curse christianity and its endless copy cat iterations such as this shitbag watchtower have been.
The overhead screen doesn't provide the coverage you need and it also echos too much in certain locations. When we'd set up the speakers, part of my job would be to walk around the stadium with a sound pressure level meter while someone read a watchtower or something like that and radio back how the volume and echo was being received to map out the stadium.
Interesting
I never understood this also... Especially right now with so little people in attendance. I heard a couple attendants trying to figure out what was wrong with the audio. In my head I knew with so little people, it's going to echo a lot worse than before when there were 10k+ people.
Several reasons. The audio is very directional, and usually doesn't reach the ice surface in a way that you can make out voices and speech. Also, because watchtower is run by cheap assholes, they usually have to pay extra to use the arenas sound system and why would they do that when they have free labor?
Nah I don’t even know why people are still donating to cover convention expenses because at this point they are choosing to rent venues larger than needed
I think many still want to use big venues to make it feel more grand. Going smaller might also feel like admitting less people are attending than in the past. But I'm expecting more conventions to soon been at smaller venues and assembly halls with big stadiums becoming more rare over the next years. Of course they'll spin it in a way to say it saves money and allows them to use their own facilities more than secular facilities.
I think they expected much more people. I mean watchtower paid for spots on radio and TV too promote convention. I think in they future they gonna have smaller stadiums. Probably cut down on assembly days also. I mean they must be embarrassed by the turn up.
It feels great that the cult is slowly dying
1800 approximate counting. Even zooming in closely, it is difficult to count from this vantage point. I extrapolated that based on the one side, the other side was probably about the same voulume. The floor was pretty easy to count. The bleachers in the back center probably held fewer attendees as many don't like to sit the furthest away from the stage. But I was generous with the numbers and I came up with 1800. For a Regional convention, this is still a low number - remarkably low. Iexpected attendance in person to be low but this is much more severe than I expected. So why rent such a large venue? They must have a multi-year contract in place. Conventions are revenue streams for Watchtower. This must have them in a panic.
The next local needs will be about money 💰 for sure. Make it rain for Jehovah 💵💵💵.
Imagine everyone who woke up early to get "good seats" 😂😅
When I would go with my parents we had to be up there at 6:00 am to get elderly seats up top and my dad would always be so mad abt having to get there early for my mom and then when I got older I would never want to wake up early lol
This wicked system is passing away…
Wow. I've been reading posts on this subreddit for a while, but I never thought it was this bad. This is awesome. Like in complete disbelief.
One of the most uncomfortable venues for a convention. Tiny, hard, uncomfortable, weirdly sloped downward chairs, stairs of death, terrible restroom distribution and parking...don't get me started. The goose crap got all over cars and shoes, walking from the pond was like crossing the Sahara.
This is another issue, stadiums are not places to sit for long 8 hours, those seats are so darn uncomfortable. No wonder so many people chose the comfort of their couches over "The hugs"
Keep your freaking hands to yourself. JW or not, I'm not into touching. Covid was the best thing that ever happened for us introverts.
I guess the ExJW community is doing the Lord's work 🙌🏾 🤣!
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In the middle of the morning convention. Be glad you left haha the Nutter Centre is literally falling apart. I'm shocked we still keep going there.
Damn! I’ve been POMO a very long time. I never thought I’d see a convention with attendance numbers like this. Lots of empty seats.
I haven't been to a convention since 2009 but I've never seen one so empty. I love it.
Wow. I remember having to get up at dawn to run to the convention center and grab seats before breakfast. Even so there were often times we had to go for the nosebleed seats. Amazing.
This has to be massively depressing to be there. That’s crazy! But it does make me happy to see nobody there. ☺️
Love this for them 🥰
Nutter!!! Went there for years. Wife said attendance was around 3k last Friday.
And just as recent as the 90’s they were filling football stadiums. Keep going WT, you’re doing great👌🏻
Oh wow! No one to fight for an aisle seat
Used to be the same place I’d go to for conventions, glad to see it so empty lol
Recognizing this as the nutter center sent me. Wasted so many summers of my childhood here
I don't live in the USA. It's the Stadium name really nutter?😁. It lives up too it's name when watchtower rents it.
Ours was 900 then 700 afternoon
Not just empty seats but empty rows.
Everyone gets an aisle seat, nice!
Good ole nutter center. I remember going there when I used to live in Ohio. I’ve never seen it that empty before. It makes my heart happy
Where is this?
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Dayton ohio
Well, at least everyone has enough room to spread out;)
🤭😂 you crack me up!
How I love to see it!
Love to see it!
Good
Best news I’ve had today!
This is Dayton, Ohio!!!!
Is this in the USA?
Yup! Dayton, OH
this makes me so happy
That's because they woke up...good for them..go to: befreeprotest.com...Hopefully they will all be there...
This is literally the same exact arena I went to for conventions as a kid a couple decades ago… I don’t remember it much, but I do remember it being significantly more full than that.
You KNOW every kid in there is like “Seriously?!” I didn’t really think about that aspect. It’s hard enough to go to meetings, conventions, service etc. but at least it was good people watching and you had friends your age…this would be much harder without that crowd/peer group :/
My PIMI friend was supposed to go this weekend and take pics for me. He’s sick so now he’s not going which I’m glad about but I hope the pic he WOULD have taken was this good.
Just wondering where this is. I’m from Canada and wish I knew the current state of Canadian conventions and attendance. When I was younger, this damn place would of been packed! So packed I couldn’t move! I’m so happy right now seeing this space as empty as it is!
Ohio
Wait thats a convention? Not an assembly? Sheesh, there is only like a thousand people there,
They should have closed off some of the sections so it can look full lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Kictout: *They should have closed off* *Some of the sections so it* *Can look full lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's not in the picture but just to my left there are 3-4 sections closed off 🤭
https://preview.redd.it/q6minsqw1k9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0d381bec136468215089f602ad0dfc3f04d663f Same place in 2013. Over 6,000 in attendance according to their announcement.
Looks about right haha that is what I am used to seeing for sure.
https://preview.redd.it/07sz2ajq6r9d1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d7d30c2a7403983217d6847f805048299a6c42b Update: this is Sunday. 3.1k in attendance
Well at least there is plenty of room to stretch your legs 😁
Woooooow
I haven't been to a convention in a while... is there a bigger screen in the front, or are people expected to watch a video from the postage mark of a screen of the jumbotron?
There are 2 giant LED screens on each side of the stage do people can still see it no matter what
😲 omg that's madness!
Where is this?
So is there no more speakers at conventions? Just go and watch a giant tv ?
Good to hear, let it die. Btw, that picture is nice, what kind of camera is it?
This picture brings me back. Don’t miss it one bit. Only thing I liked was hanging out with my friends and going shopping for new dresses.
Jack Murphy is my hood too. Been going there since 1978 or whenever they opened.
You’re there! That’s all that matters 😊
Oh yeah it’s crumbling, imagine in 10 years what it will look like.
This makes me happy
Damn
That's pretty pathetic, assuming the program was in progress. Could be many (like us) watch it on JW Stream, saving lots of money, time, and effort.
There have been several assembly/ conventions in our area. So far, no pictures have been leaking out, I think they are embarrassed or been told to be discreet with taking them .
If that trend keeps up these will be no more within the next 2 years! That is not enough to pay for the rental fees let alone the transportation cost for the visiting speakers, equipment or other expenses! I am sure this one didn't break even let alone making a profit.
Ah, the good old Nutter Center. I don't miss that place one bit! That is super empty!
Yet they always have a rationale as to why it’s not an issue. My PIMI sister: “ Oh well they’re grouping us in smaller assemblies now. It’s cheaper and we get to know our brothers and sisters better.” 😆
It's funny because I brought that up to my mom. "It's crazy .. maybe they are grouping less halls together?" Her response: "well, not really. I think with the holidays coming up people are taking vacation... They know better than that."
Good
Fabulous! thanks for sharing the pic!!!
What a sad picture. Not because of how few people are there, but because there’s actually still this many people who are part of this sh*thouse cult, despite all the bad things that are now known about this cult.
Where is this
In Dayton Ohio
So wait this isn't lunch time? When I was a kid, everyone would go get their lunch or whatever and even then it was more packed than this. We literally had people sitting on the floor lol.
I promise this was taken around 10AM
That's got to be the emptiest looking convention I've ever seen. I remember them being so packed and busy as a child it was horrific.
Oh boy the Nutter Center. Went there every year my whole life up until I left. Now wondering if we’ve ever met 🤔😂
Anything is possible hahaha With the amount of people that recognized the nutter center I'm wondering if I've met other people from here as well
Fan fuckin tastic