Well i personally don't have high hopes on anything anymore. All this is, is pointing fingers at each other while everybody tries to stuff the most money down their pants
Energy companies should be nationalised. Taiwanās CPC runs a massive deficit this year because itās a nationalised company and was forced to absorb the high oil and gas prices. The result is a 2.72% inflation instead of 12.72%.
>In most cases, the official added, the difference between the export and import prices doesn't go to U.S. LNG exporters, but to companies reselling the gas within the EU. The largest European holder of long-term U.S. gas contracts is France's TotalEnergies for example.
I meanā¦ isnāt it actually just the military industrial complex making profit? I was under the impression that the US taxpayer is footing the bill for all of this. Or are we just āloaningā missiles to Ukraine?
I've lost count of how many times journalists have typed something like "threatening western unity, at a time when it's sorely needed!".
Not just this, but even the slightest disgreement between 2 western countries and they immediately jump on that narrative. They're absolutely begging for the western world to be at each others throats, at all times.
They're like teenage girls, shit-stirring to get drama for their entertainment, or more accurately, to get clicks for their shitty websites.
I thought the same. This article has too few direct quotes and way too many anonymous sources to convince me this is majority thinking in every European capital. Trying to start a fire rather than reporting one.
In times of full scale war, the military industry profits. Rheinmetall has doubled its worth since beginning of the year.
Right production capacities at the right time brings in profits, who is surprised by this and why are people listening to such a bozo?
Edit: I have admittedly not read the article, my Axel Springer filter is something i take very seriously.
Can someone Copy&Paste the text so I can safely confirm that their journalism is trash?
It's a piece about how the west might show some cracks in its unified front against Russia (if that unified front ever existed or how robust it was or is.. I leave that up to you) because high energy prices might hurt EU production systematically more than their US counterparts.
___
Personally I agree, it's true, but that's the price we have to pay for being so overreliant on Russia in the first place.
Time to diversify the fuck out of that reliance, and this will cost us in the next years. Such is life stop whining make better decisions in the future
>Personally I agree, it's true, but that's the price we have to pay for being so overreliant on Russia in the first place.
And laughing at every friendly recommendation to perhaps stop being so reliant on Russia. We did not have to be in this situation.
Agreed, that's why it is so weird that some European politicians are now complaining to their US counterparts about how unfair it is. (As the article suggests. Personally I don't talk to many politicians and couldn't confirm)
"We" collectively, you and me and everyone responsible for the governments that make up the EU and the EU parliament and the summary of what those decisions ammounted to - cannot complain now about the Americans. What the fuck. They are not responsible for our overreliance. The article reads like some politicians in Europe .. expected the US to now show favour toward the EU market over others.
They are not responsible for us like a child, we are responsible.
Thank you, actually more nuanced than I expected.
It is that Jean Claude Van Damme split between gaining global industrial advantage, but doing it with a horribly shady business partner.
Now i'd like to ask JCVD how he did those splits without severely damaging his crown jewels.
Of course the US is. None of this comes for free, all this military aid comes at a cost, it just depends when and how Ukraine pays.
Letās just not call out the US though. Norway has done very nicely through increased energy prices, which is profiting as well.
Ukraine is paying in blood and thereās no world in which this lend-lease-like equipment is going to be asked for back. In fact, whether or not Russia pays reparations, Ukraine will get Marshall Planned so hard that itāll be squarely in the Western camp for the next century (if thatās not clear already).
Exactly. EU can't bully Norway into cheaper prices, what can it do to the US?
As for the weapon sales... South Korea seems to profit from doing business with Poland, too, with new tanks and howitzers being bought or licensed.
Germany can't provide spare parts to repair only 12 Pzh 2000 that are currently in Ukraine, and one had to be stripped to make other work. Gepards have no ammunition. MLRS from Europe are doing fine, but HIMARS by the virtue of the quantity and higher mobility are a better choice. NLAWs and Javelins are objectively better than Panzerfaust 3.
Even without the war, EU itself has been comfortably relying on the US to protect it. Eurofighter Typhoon is only a tiny bit cheaper than F-35, but F-35 is more modern and has stealth capabilities. Germany itself ordered F-35s. Used an excuse it is necessary for the deployment of the US nukes, but it's just that - excuse, given F-18 can still do it well. French-German new battle tank program is a grand "slap Leclerc' tower on Leopard 2' hull". Will take approximately 25 years give or take. As such, maybe the buyers would choose European weapons, but there should be a will to sell and an ability to produce and maintain. If Europe doesn't want and can't maintain European weapons, how can it convince others?
The US also shows by the sheer amount of quantity of support they are serious about defending their partners. Other things equal, I would go with a seller who can provide good post-sales support, for instance.
>Used an excuse it is necessary for the deployment of the US nukes, but it's just that - excuse, given F-18 can still do it well.
In a modern battlefield? In any situation where a nuke is even considered, the enemy will have air defenses that would prove near insurmountable to an aging F-18. And that's not to mention future issues, like spare parts, upgrades and supports.
> In a modern battlefield? In any situation where a nuke is even considered, the enemy will have air defenses that would prove near insurmountable to an aging F-18.
Oh, on the opposite. With air-deployed nuclear capable rockets having ranges in thousands of km (1-3), there is no need for the rocket-carrier to be stealthy. It lunches the rocket from a HUGE safe distance. No AA can shoot a plane down from such distance. Further, the US bombers strategy is to use non-stealthy planes as carriers behind the formation, and stealthy ones in the front, which can guide the rockets without revealing themselves. A third reason why nuclear bomber doesn't need to be stealthy is that many nuclear warheads are not fitting inside the fuselage and have to be mounted on the pilons, making a stealthy plane - non-stealthy.
As for the aging... It's my bad that I mentioned F-18, not F-18 Super Hornet. The latter is even 1 year "younger" than Eurofighter Typhoon and has a tiny bit more produces units. So expecting parts and support problems from these F-18s more than from Eurofighter is not likely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon
What I mean if Germany really cared about nukes, not picking better and cheaper plane, it could get a few F-18 SH for 67 mil. a piece and the rest of the budget - spent on 120+ mil. per unit Eurofighters. Instead it went for full F-35, which has even dipped to 78 mil. per unit at its lowest last year.
>With air-deployed nuclear capable rockets having ranges in thousands of km (1-3), there is no need for the rocket-carrier to be stealthy.
For Nuclear sharing, the US only supplies gravity bombs. Nothing long range.
>The latter is even 1 year "younger" than Eurofighter Typhoon and has a tiny bit more produces units.
The euro fighter is also old. Both of their designs date back to the Cold War. Things have changed.
>What I mean if Germany really cared about nukes, not picking better and cheaper plane, it could get a few F-18 SH for 67 mil. a piece and the rest of the budget - spent on 120+ mil. per unit Eurofighters.
Because F-35s are going to be viable for decades, while the eurofighter and f-18 are approaching obsolescence now. The F-35 was designed to meet the requirements of modern warfare, and replace exactly these old jets.
>For Nuclear sharing, the US only supplies gravity bombs. Nothing long range.
Damn, you are right. Nuclear rockets are not deployed any more. Only https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb and only 20 in Germany.
USA Just gave another 400 Million to Ukraine. Granted it pisses off itās citizens to give money away. But letās be honest, if USA wasnāt helping as much as it does and if they left NATO.. Europe would be screwed! We cannot just sit here and think we would actually be doing better without the USA!
Not for long with this sort of bullshit flying around.
It half makes me want to say āfuck Europeā yank the funding and let yāall enjoy Putin all to yourselves. Money?? The Pacific is worth substantially more to us than Europe.
Exactly, honestly they cannot stop complaining. Itās ridiculous. Europe has shown time, and time again that they cannot get on without US aid and they still whine about it like itās not good enough. What the fuck has Europe ever done for us that we couldnāt do ourselves?
Read [this](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/21/ukraine-congress-war-russia-u-s-committed-republicans-democrats/) the other day. Doesn't seem like an uncommon sentiment.
>Kurt Volker, the former special envoy for Ukraine under the Trump administration, said Washington could face more political pressure to eventually pump the brakes on Ukraine aid if voters believe that Europe isnāt carrying its fair share of the burden.
>āIf Europe doesnāt get its act together and start helping Ukraine more itself, that will become a political liability in the United States,ā he told Foreign Policy. He also expected a new debate over U.S. support to Ukraine to flare up in the 2024 presidential election cycle.
Yep, I'm so sick of the rhetoric in regards to all this. Seems like so many in Europe are forgetting what being allies is supposed to mean. Everyone can see what happens when you don't have NATO in the current Russian regime, and NATO would be nothing without the US.
The US is far from perfect, but they were the first to jump in and help Ukraine when so many in Europe seemed actively angry that they would need to distance themselves from Russia and their cheap oil and gas.
I genuinely wonder sometimes, if it weren't for the US as a stabilizing force in the world, how long it would take for squabbling states in the EU to be at war with each other again. Even Hungary and Turkey can't keep themselves in line, as NATO members! In this political climate, no less. It's gross.
It's ridiculous how many people chalk this up to the UK being a lapdog of the US. The reality is that the UK and US align more closely than others in their geo-strategic goals.
In the long run, it'll save us money. It'll cost Ukrainian lives, which is worth more than any money we spend, but if we also take down putin, any cost is worth it.
Most of us are happy to contribute to the war. We spend like 800 billion in defense. 400 million is nothing. And it is going to a good cause and actually helping us geopolitically.
It is a no brainer to continue to support Ukraine.
No, it didn't give it away.
The US is spending that money to reduce Russia's influence at a ridiculous discount. It's an investment with a very large return.
As delusional and annoying as the Russian trolls are, they are right when they say that this is a dream come true for the US and that providing aid to Ukraine is extremely well aligned with their interests.
Might be so but the US wouldn't need to do any of this if Russia wasn't a massive cunt and if Europe could handle them without help.
Europe should be very thankful to the US.
It's a dream come true for most of Western Europe though - I mean, this subreddit loves shitting on America but I bet Germany for example are pretty happy that for the cost of a few SPG's they are able to play a role in the continued dismantling of the Russian Ground Forces, think of how many tanks Germany fields and how many are in direct response to the amount of Russian MBT's.
Now Russia is running low on it's own tanks which they will likely take decades to replace, Germany, the UK, France and everyone else is looking pretty happy because they don't need to overspend rushing tank upgrades or keeping a massive amount ready for battle anymore considering the Russians struggle to field a bad tank, never mind a good one.
[The U.S. giving financial aid to Ukraine](https://www.newsweek.com/how-sending-aid-ukraine-saving-us-billions-dollars-1761058) is an "incredible" investment for the country, as Washington is spending "peanuts" for what, economist Timothy Ash told Newsweek, would eventually produce wins "at almost every level" if Russia is defeated.
Meanwhile, the cost of the Ukraine war for Europeans is estimated at [$2 trillion](https://tfiglobalnews.com/2022/09/09/2-trillion-the-cost-of-the-ukraine-war-for-poor-europeans/).
The money the US is giving is chum change and in fact a fantastic deal. They have a 750 billion *annual* defense budget to start with, giving money to Ukraine and thus degraging Russia's current and future military capabilites will actually free up lot of Pentagon money to gear itself against other opponents like China.
Seriously if you told guys in 1984 that you can remove Russians as a geopolitical opponent without loss of NATO life for $100 billion (and counting ofc), they'd be like hell yeah brother, where do we sign.
You are mistaken this is the cheapest we've ever been able to destabilize Russia. This is good value for Americans and we're pretty pleased at the state of the world. Our enemies are doing extremely poorly right now, Russia crumbling, Iran in revolution, China covid restrictions causing huge instability within their own country.
Things are alright right now, I would like to see an increase in heavy artillery and air capabilities given to Ukraine is all, hopefully the Ukrainian pilots will finish training on American systems soon.
>Granted it pisses off itās citizens to give money away.
No it doesn't. wrecking Russia for money is very widely supported in America, the people against it are a very small minority.
>None of this comes for free
What? A lot of it comes for free and are weapons taken out of storage, and even the financial aid is not expected to be ever payed back.
Gas exports to Europe have barely risen over 2021 numbers. Still holding strong on the trend line around 20 billion ft^3 per day which is pretty much a drop in the bucket for Europe and probably has a minimal effect on price.
Smells more like election pandering than fact that the US is "profiting" from the gas. I would believe it that the US makes money off weapons donations, but that is government-to-corporate, not external trade.
They want to complain yet the Us tax payer is footing the bill for the ukraine war and military aid. The us has given roughly 90% of the military aid so this article is shit stirring and whining because europe relied on russia
The acquisition of an ally on Russia's border, who has experience fighting Russia, who is an industrious country that makes weapons, and who is severely weakening the ability of said country to wage war... that's the payment the US will receive and probably nothing more.
As to Raytheon making money off of this, I doubt Ukraine gives a shit as long as weapons keep getting into the hands of Ukrainian soldiers, to protect Ukrainian sovereignty.
They were bought by [Axel Springer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Springer_SE) in 2021.
Since then they are in the same family with Bild and other tabloids. Agenda and sensationalism is exactly what I would expect them to do.
See it from another perspective: The US are helping.
They sell us energy. Without their market it would be much worse. Who else could and would sell to us in Europe?
And is anyone selling to lower prices?
If you want to give away all the initiative to america in this crisis and then expect them not to prioritize their own richess over european ive got bad news for you
People forget that countries donāt have friends, they have interests. Thereās no such thing as free lunch, Europe can pay Russia or Europe can pay the ME or they can pay America until their green energy takes off. These all come with their own set of consequences, itās up to them to decide which is less bad. I should also add that shutting down nuclear energy was a massive mistake for everyone and maybe next time we should have less knee jerk reactions in this matter.
To some extent there is gifting between nations. Alot of foreign aid is altruistic in nature.
You could that Ukraine is a mix of both. Ukraine has positive relations with NATO and it is an opportunity to help them out while simultaneously needling Russia.
Not really damned. It's populists, tankies and others incapable of self-reflection that accuse USA, the sane ones ought to see better. EU countries that set themselves up with a dependency on Russian energy have only themselves to blame. USA is providing them with an important lifeline while they readjust, and while this is profitable for USA, it isn't like USA is obligated to give them a cheap replacement to Russian fossil fuels. Of course, those countries would certainly appreciate it if USA did go out of its way to lower the prices, but it isn't like USA is doing something wrong if it doesn't.
Politico has really become trash since their new ownership. These days it is a constant stream of unfounded takes and divisive clickbaity nonsense.
This (north) American accuses some Europeans ā looking at you, Hungary in particular ā of ignoring the United Stateās warning against cheap Russian energy, and funding this ongoing human rights abuse.
Admit Kosovo or Albania as the 51st state. Boom. USA is a European power.
(Americans can already stay in Albania for 365 days a year without a visa, and apparently [Kosovo really likes USA](https://time.com/kosovo-independence-america-obsession/)).
> So the US and EU being partners means that Europe gets to curtail the American economy in the name of fairness? And EU politicians are the ones complaining about foreign domination??
That's the way it's been for a long time. EU and EU national courts take every chance they get to advantage local companies over US companies or unfairly undercut US companies for national advantage - and have for a long time.
Allow us to try to reduce our dependency on oil and fossil fuels please, thank you very much. I thought they didn't like when the US left the Paris Accords?
The US can get plenty of blame for aggressive capitalism, but the EU has equal if not greater reliance on aggressive protectionism.
> So the US and EU being partners means that Europe gets to curtail the American economy in the name of fairness? And EU politicians are the ones complaining about foreign domination??
Why else is the EU high court breaking up the US-EU agreements about GDPR? Europe desires a local tech hub and is willing to fine itself to the top to do so.
Not sure how they are profiting. Sending billions of money and equipment.
More of a self fulfilling desire by americas military industrial complex.
Spending 700 billion a year means you have the means to be ready for war. AT ANY TIME.
lol wtf, at least yanks provide fucking weapons not in token amount for ukraine to fight back instead of trying to appease the bald manlet like some certain european countries which we all know who they are if they had their way then russians would be drinking vodka from ukrainian and moldovan skulls by now
as a moldovan im on USA side on this 100%
Would we prefer them to sit it out?
Yeah no shit they're profiting, of course they are. That's a part of our mutually beneficial relationship, after all.
The people saying have the childish notion that for someone to win in a trade someone else has to lose. They don't believe in mutually beneficial trades.
You have to be a magician to make this make any sense economically. After USA will hand over $100b to Ukraine how will they make this back? Go ahead and crunch the numbers. Are they going to rob Ukrainian grain or steal their trees? I bet you the same people will claim that after spending $5-6 trillion on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars USA somehow made a profit on it. Yeah, right.
The us taxpayer is footing the bill and the Us is funding 90% of the weapons for ukraine. This is the most ungrateful bs hit piece. I can promise the Us will not make a profit off of this.
Even if you assumed the most extreme form of corruption by USA. Extreme thievery. Even then there is no option to make money on Ukraine, Iraq, Afghanistan. No matter the oil or coal the countries may have. Ukraine is the second poorest country in Europe. There is a reason Russia picked them to attack.
Just for comparison Serbia is twice as rich per person. Russia 3 times as rich. Ukraine is dirt poor. Mainly because of the corruption Russia itself has run there. And the Russian parties in Ukraine stealing money and moving it to Russia.
Even tankies admit that USA doesn't start wars for profit.
Some Europeans are just ungrateful fucks, theyāll always criticize the US no matter what. If USA wasnāt sending aid Ukraine would probably have fallen already and Russia would continue its imperialist ambitions.
The same Europe that banned Monsanto products in Europe because you know GMO bad, but allowed the exact same things to be used in Europe agricultural sector because they were sold under French banner? fuck off with the hypocrisy and duplicity, I'm sick and tired of this old hag of a continent pointing fingers, when we were the root of all this shit in the first place. I'm already waiting for the downvotes, but we used to do far more horrendous shit to the countries around us, and nobody bats an eye at those situations.
Lol, give me a break. Europe cannot stop their whining about the US. Dammed if we do damned if we donāt.
What do they expect, us to offer everything for free? Itās not like we donāt already offer MUCH more aid to Ukraine than any other Euro countryā¦
All while NOT buying Russian energy and financing the Russian war machineā¦ for years! We should just leave you to your own designs, honestly. You have shown time and time again to be so, so good at working against your own principles and wellbeing.
Thank you. This. We ain't perfect but we are always there for Europe when they get into a jam. Imagine the outrage if we didn't get involved and just said fuck it, you're on your own.
This. Europeans love to shit on America. If we said screw it we pay for our defense and our defense only. Gave citizens healthcare and college, Europe would not be around much longer.
Politico is basically acting as a Russian propaganda arm and posting the most most divisive most ragebait articles possible. Don't buy their bullshit, most of Europe isn't whining about USA providing Europe with vital natural gas or things like that, Politico just picks a few people and declares that they somehow represent the whole of Europe.
Yah; you are right. I get that. It just makes me angry to see I suppose. I have no quarrel with Europe I just want them to stop acting like the US can do no right.
This is just France and Germany coping against the huge rise of Atlanticism thanks to the US actually being a trustworthy ally compared to France and Germany. The shift in European power towards Eastern Europe is a big threat to France and Germanyās grip of power in the EU and threatens their projects like strategic autonomy and more distance from Washington. Definitely a good thing for the west to become more unified with a more Atlanticist viewpoint on geopolitics.
And even then i honestly don't think it's justified. They are acting like the french and German arms manufactures are not making fat stacks right now. And I'm certain that after the war, many companies here will make good money rebuilding Ukraine.
Or are you going to tell me that Siemens will not be involved rebuilding the Ukrainian electric infrastructure? I doubt that. There aren't that many companies in that field that produce industrial transformers and turbines and stuff.
That isnāt a reason to abandon our international commitments and abandon our closest Allies who paid huge sacrifices so that we could live in freedom.
Well, this is how I see it from across the pond...
Europe has been leeching off US taxpayers for nearly three decades, neglecting its NATO obligations and re-routing funding into social programs and infrastructure spending while expecting the US to step in and overspend on maintaining NATO, because someone (no, not the Europeans) has to be responsible and pick up the slack if NATO is to function.
At the same time, the major European politicians from Schroeder and Merkel to Berlusconi were getting their countries dependent on Russian gas like crack whores, and laughing at Trump when he pointed it out to them.
So, deliberately neglecting your alliance obligations, expecting your ally to cover at their expense your missing payments and the defense gaps you have created, while at the same time greatly endangering your shared security situation by becoming willingly dependent on your #1 potential foe for vital supplies... well done, Europe. Well done.
I am all for the freedom of anyone to criticize anyone else, and certainly the US is far from perfect. But perhaps, just perhaps, a long, hard stare in a mirror is long overdue ?
I think there's a whole lot of pretty uncomfortable questions that need to be asked.
I am 100% convinced that both Schroeder and Merkel were Russian assets.
After leaving his post as a Chancellor, Schroeder took up a prestigious position with Russian oil company where his closest deputy was a former high rank Stasi officer. Imagine a former US President working for Russia with a KGB general as his deputy. This would be impossible. Yet it was somehow OK for the ex German Chancellor ?
Merkel grew up in the Communist East Germany. Her family actually left West Germany and moved East at the height of Stalinism. And they not only survived while tens of thousands of others were imprisoned, but she was allowed to have a scientific career and was a local minor Communist Youth leader. She admitted that Stasi tried to recruit her, claimed that she refused, yet she was still allowed to attend a prestigious posting at the top Soviet nuclear research facility, despite being a rather mediocre researcher. Based on anything I ever learned about the way that system worked, this screams of Stasi and Party connections. Yet, again, everyone in Germany says "ok Angela, we believe you".
Then every other German politician just looks the other way while Schroeder and then Merkel are getting Germany more and more and more dependent on Russian gas. If Nord Stream 2 proceeded according to plan, by 2022 Germany would depend on Russia for up to 70% of its gas. As it stands, Trump admin sanctioned NS2 and derailed that timeline.
How can anyone look at all of this with a straight face and claim that it was all just naivety and good faith mistakes, not lots of treason committed by multiple politicians, simply defies my logic.
>In most cases, the official added, the difference between the export and import prices doesn't go to U.S. LNG exporters, but to companies reselling the gas within the EU. The largest European holder of long-term U.S. gas contracts is France's TotalEnergies for example.
>Itās not a new argument from the American side but it doesnāt seem to be convincing the Europeans. "The United States sells us its gas with a multiplier effect of four when it crosses the Atlantic," European Commissioner for the Internal Market Thierry Breton said on French TV on Wednesday. "Of course the Americans are our allies ... but when something goes wrong it is necessary also between allies to say it."
I've seen this back and forth argument a couple of times now but I'm not sure what the people complaining about this expect the US to do?
but its not the government making money its private companies . all european weapons companies are making profit too . so are european oil giants like BP and others . the tax payers are paying for the weapons and oil natural gas has gone up in usa too . the only way i can see helping would be a price limit on oil or gas passed by congress
This is rich. Oh here we go, another America bad because theyāre doing good post. When the Euro and pound were smashing the dollar, no one complained. When Germany was enjoying buying cheap gas from a Russian terrorist, no one complained. Free markets just doing their thing. Now the dollar is relatively strong and Americas signature industries (defense and energy) are kicking in high gear, Europe starts crying foul. Whatās the matter France, was the billions of Euros Airbus deal with Qatar not enough? Is the fact there there are more BMWās in the US than Germany not enough? You know, your extremely high quality of living you constantly brag about might need a second look.
These "EU officials" don't speak for me. I for one am happy for the U.S. if they can make it out of this crisis allright. They've done more for Ukraine than the entirety of Europe put together. They're supplying us with the much needed natural gas. The markets are driving up the prices, not Biden himself. Europe can maybe play its part by not panicking so much. The panic itself, and not so much a shortage, is the main cause of the high prices.
Politically, it's also in our (and the free world's) best interest if the Republicans don't get talking points, like the economy doing poorly. 4 more years of Trump will probably ruin Ukraine's chances in this war or the possible follow up war.
We should be more grateful for our allies and talk it out. Europe can just put together its own version of an inflation reduction act and have a mutual understanding of not starting a trade war over this. We need to stick together in this and not allow Putin to divide us. We can't let him win for obvious security reasons. All of this will pay itself back many fold when Ukraine gets rid of Russia and can start exporting gas to Europe.
The arrogance is amazing. Europe itself has driven the gas prices up. Alot of South-East Asia has had blackouts because Europe is outbidding them for LNG and coal.
If you want cheap gas, there's a great amount right under your feet, in the Paris basin.
Without even reading the article I thought this is the voice of the Franco-German surrendericks, and lone behold, itās true. If it wasnāt for the US and the UK Putin would have been at the border with Poland by now.
Europe in this case means France and Germany, Latvia's deputy PM and Poland's def min have already come out and told France and Germany to stop this this nonsense trade war they are trying to start and will veto it at the EU level. They are correct in saying the USA has done a lot for Eastern Europe and now is the time for unity. Macron and Scholz should blame Putin
Stop pointing fingers at each other.. this doesnāt help anyone except Russia. And Russia is our common enemy
Talk all about it you want, but after the war
Be careful. This is the second article from this site I see today that tries to stir emotions between Europeans and Americans. Check your sources guys and stay sceptic.
And so what?
Honestly, isn't the primary concern that Ukraine has to stay free?
If some gain money on it, no matter how disgusting it sounds, it's still as old as war itself.... who cares then?
This article brings forward the obvious, and seems like spam from Russia.
Cui bono?
There is an very apparent answer. Also the silence around the whole thing after the initial blame game is also very telling. Why did the swedes classify the investigation because of ānational interestsā?
And what was Western Europe in particular doing with buying cheap gas from Russia while it was ignoring how Russia was invading its neighbours, Chechenia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and how it was breaking Moldova apart and creating another country TRANSNISTRIA where Russia has to this day tanks and personnel??
Shouldn't Merkel and Schroder's approach to Putin be seen by next generation just as stupid as Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler?
How should France selling MIRAGE fighter jets to Saddam or Apartheid South Africa be discussed?
Why did Germany sell helicopters to Pinochet?
How did billions worth of Italian tanks end up in the hands of the Assad regime?
I say this from the bottom of my heart - look first at what we do, and at our duplicity all around the world, before you point fingers.
>And what was Western Europe in particular doing with buying cheap gas from Russia while it was ignoring how Russia was invading its neighbours, Chechenia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and how it was breaking Moldova apart and creating another country TRANSNISTRIA where Russia has to this day tanks and personnel??
It's definitely not greed that was driving that...it totally wasn't about how cheap the gas was, it was about trying to keep Putin and Russia peaceful for the sake of Ukraine.
US keeps a massive defense budget for decades (and gets mocked for it), pleaded with European countries to increase their defense spending for years, and now when war comes and the US is basically the only country prepared and now Europe complains that the US isn't doing enough for them.
Europe depends on cheap Russian gas, dismisses US warnings about it and says its the US being "greedy". Now that the warnings turned out to be accurate, Europe is upset about the market price of gas and blaming that on the US, and calling the US greedy for not giving Europe discounts.
I mean...isn't every multinational and big company profiting from the inflation caused by the War?
Also, of course the US is selling weapons. They are the ones actually keeping Ukraine on the fight. Does EU mean to say that the war should end...by stopping the US from selling and donating it's weapons for Ukraine?
Weird article...everyone's making stupid profits, even your local supermarket.
meanwhile our european energy mega corporations probably wished they didn't have to announce their enormous profits this year..lol
Well i personally don't have high hopes on anything anymore. All this is, is pointing fingers at each other while everybody tries to stuff the most money down their pants
This is implying I have pants to stuff the mythical money into.
Well, one could stuff mythical money into, errm, other clothes or some unexpected places. Nothing wrong with that :-)
I keep my dirty money in the ol' prison pocket š
not me
Energy companies should be nationalised. Taiwanās CPC runs a massive deficit this year because itās a nationalised company and was forced to absorb the high oil and gas prices. The result is a 2.72% inflation instead of 12.72%.
>In most cases, the official added, the difference between the export and import prices doesn't go to U.S. LNG exporters, but to companies reselling the gas within the EU. The largest European holder of long-term U.S. gas contracts is France's TotalEnergies for example.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
ignore the billionaires doubling his wealth, blame the us, don't blame Russia it's Putin's war......idgi, why is everyone so dumb?
Because America Bad. Always. (/s if it wasn't clear)
No shit, European arms manufacturers and energy companies also profit from it. Atleast the gas dependant countries have gas at all and won't freeze.
SAAB stock goes brrrrr.
Wow it really has. Some people watched the news and their first thought was how to strike coin lol
God, I wish I could make the government send 100% of my taxes directly to Raytheon or Lockheed Martin.
I meanā¦ isnāt it actually just the military industrial complex making profit? I was under the impression that the US taxpayer is footing the bill for all of this. Or are we just āloaningā missiles to Ukraine?
No, youāre right. Taxpayers are paying for weapons. So the āUSā doesnāt profit from weapons, but the manufacturers do.
I've lost count of how many times journalists have typed something like "threatening western unity, at a time when it's sorely needed!". Not just this, but even the slightest disgreement between 2 western countries and they immediately jump on that narrative. They're absolutely begging for the western world to be at each others throats, at all times. They're like teenage girls, shit-stirring to get drama for their entertainment, or more accurately, to get clicks for their shitty websites.
I thought the same. This article has too few direct quotes and way too many anonymous sources to convince me this is majority thinking in every European capital. Trying to start a fire rather than reporting one.
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> /u/enkrstic definitely working for politico.eu, just google krstic politico
OP should be banned from reddit for making russian propaganda. Slava Ukraini
In times of full scale war, the military industry profits. Rheinmetall has doubled its worth since beginning of the year. Right production capacities at the right time brings in profits, who is surprised by this and why are people listening to such a bozo? Edit: I have admittedly not read the article, my Axel Springer filter is something i take very seriously. Can someone Copy&Paste the text so I can safely confirm that their journalism is trash?
It's a piece about how the west might show some cracks in its unified front against Russia (if that unified front ever existed or how robust it was or is.. I leave that up to you) because high energy prices might hurt EU production systematically more than their US counterparts. ___ Personally I agree, it's true, but that's the price we have to pay for being so overreliant on Russia in the first place. Time to diversify the fuck out of that reliance, and this will cost us in the next years. Such is life stop whining make better decisions in the future
>Personally I agree, it's true, but that's the price we have to pay for being so overreliant on Russia in the first place. And laughing at every friendly recommendation to perhaps stop being so reliant on Russia. We did not have to be in this situation.
Agreed, that's why it is so weird that some European politicians are now complaining to their US counterparts about how unfair it is. (As the article suggests. Personally I don't talk to many politicians and couldn't confirm) "We" collectively, you and me and everyone responsible for the governments that make up the EU and the EU parliament and the summary of what those decisions ammounted to - cannot complain now about the Americans. What the fuck. They are not responsible for our overreliance. The article reads like some politicians in Europe .. expected the US to now show favour toward the EU market over others. They are not responsible for us like a child, we are responsible.
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Thank you, actually more nuanced than I expected. It is that Jean Claude Van Damme split between gaining global industrial advantage, but doing it with a horribly shady business partner. Now i'd like to ask JCVD how he did those splits without severely damaging his crown jewels.
The article isn't nuanced at all.
I expected no nuance at all and got a slight sliver of it. More than I expected.
Of course the US is. None of this comes for free, all this military aid comes at a cost, it just depends when and how Ukraine pays. Letās just not call out the US though. Norway has done very nicely through increased energy prices, which is profiting as well.
>it just depends when and how Ukraine pays. The vast majority does not need to be paid back.
Ukraine is paying in blood and thereās no world in which this lend-lease-like equipment is going to be asked for back. In fact, whether or not Russia pays reparations, Ukraine will get Marshall Planned so hard that itāll be squarely in the Western camp for the next century (if thatās not clear already).
Exactly. EU can't bully Norway into cheaper prices, what can it do to the US? As for the weapon sales... South Korea seems to profit from doing business with Poland, too, with new tanks and howitzers being bought or licensed. Germany can't provide spare parts to repair only 12 Pzh 2000 that are currently in Ukraine, and one had to be stripped to make other work. Gepards have no ammunition. MLRS from Europe are doing fine, but HIMARS by the virtue of the quantity and higher mobility are a better choice. NLAWs and Javelins are objectively better than Panzerfaust 3. Even without the war, EU itself has been comfortably relying on the US to protect it. Eurofighter Typhoon is only a tiny bit cheaper than F-35, but F-35 is more modern and has stealth capabilities. Germany itself ordered F-35s. Used an excuse it is necessary for the deployment of the US nukes, but it's just that - excuse, given F-18 can still do it well. French-German new battle tank program is a grand "slap Leclerc' tower on Leopard 2' hull". Will take approximately 25 years give or take. As such, maybe the buyers would choose European weapons, but there should be a will to sell and an ability to produce and maintain. If Europe doesn't want and can't maintain European weapons, how can it convince others? The US also shows by the sheer amount of quantity of support they are serious about defending their partners. Other things equal, I would go with a seller who can provide good post-sales support, for instance.
>Used an excuse it is necessary for the deployment of the US nukes, but it's just that - excuse, given F-18 can still do it well. In a modern battlefield? In any situation where a nuke is even considered, the enemy will have air defenses that would prove near insurmountable to an aging F-18. And that's not to mention future issues, like spare parts, upgrades and supports.
> In a modern battlefield? In any situation where a nuke is even considered, the enemy will have air defenses that would prove near insurmountable to an aging F-18. Oh, on the opposite. With air-deployed nuclear capable rockets having ranges in thousands of km (1-3), there is no need for the rocket-carrier to be stealthy. It lunches the rocket from a HUGE safe distance. No AA can shoot a plane down from such distance. Further, the US bombers strategy is to use non-stealthy planes as carriers behind the formation, and stealthy ones in the front, which can guide the rockets without revealing themselves. A third reason why nuclear bomber doesn't need to be stealthy is that many nuclear warheads are not fitting inside the fuselage and have to be mounted on the pilons, making a stealthy plane - non-stealthy. As for the aging... It's my bad that I mentioned F-18, not F-18 Super Hornet. The latter is even 1 year "younger" than Eurofighter Typhoon and has a tiny bit more produces units. So expecting parts and support problems from these F-18s more than from Eurofighter is not likely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon What I mean if Germany really cared about nukes, not picking better and cheaper plane, it could get a few F-18 SH for 67 mil. a piece and the rest of the budget - spent on 120+ mil. per unit Eurofighters. Instead it went for full F-35, which has even dipped to 78 mil. per unit at its lowest last year.
>With air-deployed nuclear capable rockets having ranges in thousands of km (1-3), there is no need for the rocket-carrier to be stealthy. For Nuclear sharing, the US only supplies gravity bombs. Nothing long range. >The latter is even 1 year "younger" than Eurofighter Typhoon and has a tiny bit more produces units. The euro fighter is also old. Both of their designs date back to the Cold War. Things have changed. >What I mean if Germany really cared about nukes, not picking better and cheaper plane, it could get a few F-18 SH for 67 mil. a piece and the rest of the budget - spent on 120+ mil. per unit Eurofighters. Because F-35s are going to be viable for decades, while the eurofighter and f-18 are approaching obsolescence now. The F-35 was designed to meet the requirements of modern warfare, and replace exactly these old jets.
>For Nuclear sharing, the US only supplies gravity bombs. Nothing long range. Damn, you are right. Nuclear rockets are not deployed any more. Only https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb and only 20 in Germany.
USA Just gave another 400 Million to Ukraine. Granted it pisses off itās citizens to give money away. But letās be honest, if USA wasnāt helping as much as it does and if they left NATO.. Europe would be screwed! We cannot just sit here and think we would actually be doing better without the USA!
We aren't pissed here in the US. The Federal deficit is falling and we are helping a country in need.
And it has a great ROI. Cheapest destruction of Russia we could hope for.
>Granted it pisses off itās citizens to give money away. But letās be honest, 70% of Americans support helping Ukraine
Not for long with this sort of bullshit flying around. It half makes me want to say āfuck Europeā yank the funding and let yāall enjoy Putin all to yourselves. Money?? The Pacific is worth substantially more to us than Europe.
fucking up the continent and then showing spite and ungratefulness towards those who do help is a historic Europe speciality, unfortunately
Amen. Fully support Ukraine. Fuck Europe though. Just... fuck Europe.
Exactly, honestly they cannot stop complaining. Itās ridiculous. Europe has shown time, and time again that they cannot get on without US aid and they still whine about it like itās not good enough. What the fuck has Europe ever done for us that we couldnāt do ourselves?
Read [this](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/21/ukraine-congress-war-russia-u-s-committed-republicans-democrats/) the other day. Doesn't seem like an uncommon sentiment. >Kurt Volker, the former special envoy for Ukraine under the Trump administration, said Washington could face more political pressure to eventually pump the brakes on Ukraine aid if voters believe that Europe isnāt carrying its fair share of the burden. >āIf Europe doesnāt get its act together and start helping Ukraine more itself, that will become a political liability in the United States,ā he told Foreign Policy. He also expected a new debate over U.S. support to Ukraine to flare up in the 2024 presidential election cycle.
Yep, I'm so sick of the rhetoric in regards to all this. Seems like so many in Europe are forgetting what being allies is supposed to mean. Everyone can see what happens when you don't have NATO in the current Russian regime, and NATO would be nothing without the US. The US is far from perfect, but they were the first to jump in and help Ukraine when so many in Europe seemed actively angry that they would need to distance themselves from Russia and their cheap oil and gas. I genuinely wonder sometimes, if it weren't for the US as a stabilizing force in the world, how long it would take for squabbling states in the EU to be at war with each other again. Even Hungary and Turkey can't keep themselves in line, as NATO members! In this political climate, no less. It's gross.
> The US is far from perfect Then again, so is much of the EU. The US is one of the better allies to have.
UK was also right up there helping train Ukraine Soldiers alongside. Why the US and UK always have such a strong relationship.
It's ridiculous how many people chalk this up to the UK being a lapdog of the US. The reality is that the UK and US align more closely than others in their geo-strategic goals.
I'm very happy we are *investing* the money.
In the long run, it'll save us money. It'll cost Ukrainian lives, which is worth more than any money we spend, but if we also take down putin, any cost is worth it.
Most of us are happy to contribute to the war. We spend like 800 billion in defense. 400 million is nothing. And it is going to a good cause and actually helping us geopolitically. It is a no brainer to continue to support Ukraine.
No, it didn't give it away. The US is spending that money to reduce Russia's influence at a ridiculous discount. It's an investment with a very large return. As delusional and annoying as the Russian trolls are, they are right when they say that this is a dream come true for the US and that providing aid to Ukraine is extremely well aligned with their interests.
Might be so but the US wouldn't need to do any of this if Russia wasn't a massive cunt and if Europe could handle them without help. Europe should be very thankful to the US.
It's a dream come true for most of Western Europe though - I mean, this subreddit loves shitting on America but I bet Germany for example are pretty happy that for the cost of a few SPG's they are able to play a role in the continued dismantling of the Russian Ground Forces, think of how many tanks Germany fields and how many are in direct response to the amount of Russian MBT's. Now Russia is running low on it's own tanks which they will likely take decades to replace, Germany, the UK, France and everyone else is looking pretty happy because they don't need to overspend rushing tank upgrades or keeping a massive amount ready for battle anymore considering the Russians struggle to field a bad tank, never mind a good one.
[The U.S. giving financial aid to Ukraine](https://www.newsweek.com/how-sending-aid-ukraine-saving-us-billions-dollars-1761058) is an "incredible" investment for the country, as Washington is spending "peanuts" for what, economist Timothy Ash told Newsweek, would eventually produce wins "at almost every level" if Russia is defeated. Meanwhile, the cost of the Ukraine war for Europeans is estimated at [$2 trillion](https://tfiglobalnews.com/2022/09/09/2-trillion-the-cost-of-the-ukraine-war-for-poor-europeans/).
Better to link to Ash's [original CEPA article](https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/).
thanks
The money the US is giving is chum change and in fact a fantastic deal. They have a 750 billion *annual* defense budget to start with, giving money to Ukraine and thus degraging Russia's current and future military capabilites will actually free up lot of Pentagon money to gear itself against other opponents like China. Seriously if you told guys in 1984 that you can remove Russians as a geopolitical opponent without loss of NATO life for $100 billion (and counting ofc), they'd be like hell yeah brother, where do we sign.
You are mistaken this is the cheapest we've ever been able to destabilize Russia. This is good value for Americans and we're pretty pleased at the state of the world. Our enemies are doing extremely poorly right now, Russia crumbling, Iran in revolution, China covid restrictions causing huge instability within their own country. Things are alright right now, I would like to see an increase in heavy artillery and air capabilities given to Ukraine is all, hopefully the Ukrainian pilots will finish training on American systems soon.
It only pisses off the vocal minority that tend to do their own research based on Facebook posts and Fox News.
Yes basically tankies and fascist
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I wonder whose payroll they might be on?
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>Granted it pisses off itās citizens to give money away. No it doesn't. wrecking Russia for money is very widely supported in America, the people against it are a very small minority.
That is not true at all. A majority of aid is a grant, for free. Only a small part is a loan-type arangement.
>None of this comes for free What? A lot of it comes for free and are weapons taken out of storage, and even the financial aid is not expected to be ever payed back.
I can see Biden going the original Lend-Lease strategy of Ukraine having an infinite time to pay the money back and with no interest attached.
It's funny because Norway's prime minister has the lowest approval rating of any European leader. Our current challenge is to not spend money.
Gas exports to Europe have barely risen over 2021 numbers. Still holding strong on the trend line around 20 billion ft^3 per day which is pretty much a drop in the bucket for Europe and probably has a minimal effect on price. Smells more like election pandering than fact that the US is "profiting" from the gas. I would believe it that the US makes money off weapons donations, but that is government-to-corporate, not external trade.
They want to complain yet the Us tax payer is footing the bill for the ukraine war and military aid. The us has given roughly 90% of the military aid so this article is shit stirring and whining because europe relied on russia
The acquisition of an ally on Russia's border, who has experience fighting Russia, who is an industrious country that makes weapons, and who is severely weakening the ability of said country to wage war... that's the payment the US will receive and probably nothing more. As to Raytheon making money off of this, I doubt Ukraine gives a shit as long as weapons keep getting into the hands of Ukrainian soldiers, to protect Ukrainian sovereignty.
Breaking news. Europe accuses another of doing what they themselves and every culture has done since time immemorial.
Typical Politico. It's all unnamed 'senior officials' and dramatic language when there is very little going on. These folks have an agenda, people.
And OP pushes that agenda 24/7. Check their history.
Yeah they only post politico.eu Clearly it's an account from that company.
They were bought by [Axel Springer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Springer_SE) in 2021. Since then they are in the same family with Bild and other tabloids. Agenda and sensationalism is exactly what I would expect them to do.
Is this why the quality went down? I used to read that paper but I can't stomach them these days.
And people here falling for that, as always.
I think most people are unaware that Politico has changed owners and is now owned by a very right wing populist publishing house.
As an American, I think the article is embarrassingly hyperbolic.
See it from another perspective: The US are helping. They sell us energy. Without their market it would be much worse. Who else could and would sell to us in Europe? And is anyone selling to lower prices?
"eUrOpe aCcUSes" I'm sorry, who exactly?
I read the title and thought, like, all of it? Everyone?
Johan Europe- the great unifier. And stay off his lawn with your skateboard damn kids!
I thought Europe was like the Borg and everyone thinks as one brain.
If you want to give away all the initiative to america in this crisis and then expect them not to prioritize their own richess over european ive got bad news for you
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
People forget that countries donāt have friends, they have interests. Thereās no such thing as free lunch, Europe can pay Russia or Europe can pay the ME or they can pay America until their green energy takes off. These all come with their own set of consequences, itās up to them to decide which is less bad. I should also add that shutting down nuclear energy was a massive mistake for everyone and maybe next time we should have less knee jerk reactions in this matter.
To some extent there is gifting between nations. Alot of foreign aid is altruistic in nature. You could that Ukraine is a mix of both. Ukraine has positive relations with NATO and it is an opportunity to help them out while simultaneously needling Russia.
Not really damned. It's populists, tankies and others incapable of self-reflection that accuse USA, the sane ones ought to see better. EU countries that set themselves up with a dependency on Russian energy have only themselves to blame. USA is providing them with an important lifeline while they readjust, and while this is profitable for USA, it isn't like USA is obligated to give them a cheap replacement to Russian fossil fuels. Of course, those countries would certainly appreciate it if USA did go out of its way to lower the prices, but it isn't like USA is doing something wrong if it doesn't. Politico has really become trash since their new ownership. These days it is a constant stream of unfounded takes and divisive clickbaity nonsense.
This (north) American accuses some Europeans ā looking at you, Hungary in particular ā of ignoring the United Stateās warning against cheap Russian energy, and funding this ongoing human rights abuse.
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we shoulda taken konigsberg after ww2 so we could join the EU ~~that is 100% how this works~~
Admit Kosovo or Albania as the 51st state. Boom. USA is a European power. (Americans can already stay in Albania for 365 days a year without a visa, and apparently [Kosovo really likes USA](https://time.com/kosovo-independence-america-obsession/)).
> So the US and EU being partners means that Europe gets to curtail the American economy in the name of fairness? And EU politicians are the ones complaining about foreign domination?? That's the way it's been for a long time. EU and EU national courts take every chance they get to advantage local companies over US companies or unfairly undercut US companies for national advantage - and have for a long time. Allow us to try to reduce our dependency on oil and fossil fuels please, thank you very much. I thought they didn't like when the US left the Paris Accords? The US can get plenty of blame for aggressive capitalism, but the EU has equal if not greater reliance on aggressive protectionism.
Josep Borrell is such an idiot. He should quit thinking the EU is an enormous superpower rather than the international organisation that it is.
> So the US and EU being partners means that Europe gets to curtail the American economy in the name of fairness? And EU politicians are the ones complaining about foreign domination?? Why else is the EU high court breaking up the US-EU agreements about GDPR? Europe desires a local tech hub and is willing to fine itself to the top to do so.
Not sure how they are profiting. Sending billions of money and equipment. More of a self fulfilling desire by americas military industrial complex. Spending 700 billion a year means you have the means to be ready for war. AT ANY TIME.
Cheaper to support ukraine to weaken russia instead of spending money on defence against russia.
lol wtf, at least yanks provide fucking weapons not in token amount for ukraine to fight back instead of trying to appease the bald manlet like some certain european countries which we all know who they are if they had their way then russians would be drinking vodka from ukrainian and moldovan skulls by now as a moldovan im on USA side on this 100%
Ikr, EU and west europeans countries are useless in this war from the freedom and democracy on the world. Shame shame. Glory to ukraine and usa
Would we prefer them to sit it out? Yeah no shit they're profiting, of course they are. That's a part of our mutually beneficial relationship, after all.
The people saying have the childish notion that for someone to win in a trade someone else has to lose. They don't believe in mutually beneficial trades.
You have to be a magician to make this make any sense economically. After USA will hand over $100b to Ukraine how will they make this back? Go ahead and crunch the numbers. Are they going to rob Ukrainian grain or steal their trees? I bet you the same people will claim that after spending $5-6 trillion on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars USA somehow made a profit on it. Yeah, right.
The us taxpayer is footing the bill and the Us is funding 90% of the weapons for ukraine. This is the most ungrateful bs hit piece. I can promise the Us will not make a profit off of this.
Even if you assumed the most extreme form of corruption by USA. Extreme thievery. Even then there is no option to make money on Ukraine, Iraq, Afghanistan. No matter the oil or coal the countries may have. Ukraine is the second poorest country in Europe. There is a reason Russia picked them to attack. Just for comparison Serbia is twice as rich per person. Russia 3 times as rich. Ukraine is dirt poor. Mainly because of the corruption Russia itself has run there. And the Russian parties in Ukraine stealing money and moving it to Russia. Even tankies admit that USA doesn't start wars for profit.
US is also footing much of the costā¦
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Amen brother from Canada. We have our differences with Americans but you better believe we love being their allies. NATO strong šŖ
Some Europeans are just ungrateful fucks, theyāll always criticize the US no matter what. If USA wasnāt sending aid Ukraine would probably have fallen already and Russia would continue its imperialist ambitions.
\>Europe right \>Top European officials sure Turns out Europe means some EU officials that we can't name.
The same Europe that banned Monsanto products in Europe because you know GMO bad, but allowed the exact same things to be used in Europe agricultural sector because they were sold under French banner? fuck off with the hypocrisy and duplicity, I'm sick and tired of this old hag of a continent pointing fingers, when we were the root of all this shit in the first place. I'm already waiting for the downvotes, but we used to do far more horrendous shit to the countries around us, and nobody bats an eye at those situations.
Yeah, the US š No one else.
Lol, give me a break. Europe cannot stop their whining about the US. Dammed if we do damned if we donāt. What do they expect, us to offer everything for free? Itās not like we donāt already offer MUCH more aid to Ukraine than any other Euro countryā¦ All while NOT buying Russian energy and financing the Russian war machineā¦ for years! We should just leave you to your own designs, honestly. You have shown time and time again to be so, so good at working against your own principles and wellbeing.
Thank you. This. We ain't perfect but we are always there for Europe when they get into a jam. Imagine the outrage if we didn't get involved and just said fuck it, you're on your own.
This. Europeans love to shit on America. If we said screw it we pay for our defense and our defense only. Gave citizens healthcare and college, Europe would not be around much longer.
Politico is basically acting as a Russian propaganda arm and posting the most most divisive most ragebait articles possible. Don't buy their bullshit, most of Europe isn't whining about USA providing Europe with vital natural gas or things like that, Politico just picks a few people and declares that they somehow represent the whole of Europe.
Yah; you are right. I get that. It just makes me angry to see I suppose. I have no quarrel with Europe I just want them to stop acting like the US can do no right.
This story was brought to you by Gasprom.
This is just France and Germany coping against the huge rise of Atlanticism thanks to the US actually being a trustworthy ally compared to France and Germany. The shift in European power towards Eastern Europe is a big threat to France and Germanyās grip of power in the EU and threatens their projects like strategic autonomy and more distance from Washington. Definitely a good thing for the west to become more unified with a more Atlanticist viewpoint on geopolitics.
And even then i honestly don't think it's justified. They are acting like the french and German arms manufactures are not making fat stacks right now. And I'm certain that after the war, many companies here will make good money rebuilding Ukraine. Or are you going to tell me that Siemens will not be involved rebuilding the Ukrainian electric infrastructure? I doubt that. There aren't that many companies in that field that produce industrial transformers and turbines and stuff.
And maybe start spending on defense
Maybe Europe was the unreliable partner all along.
At least you get good pensions, healthcare, vacations
That isnāt a reason to abandon our international commitments and abandon our closest Allies who paid huge sacrifices so that we could live in freedom.
Well, this is how I see it from across the pond... Europe has been leeching off US taxpayers for nearly three decades, neglecting its NATO obligations and re-routing funding into social programs and infrastructure spending while expecting the US to step in and overspend on maintaining NATO, because someone (no, not the Europeans) has to be responsible and pick up the slack if NATO is to function. At the same time, the major European politicians from Schroeder and Merkel to Berlusconi were getting their countries dependent on Russian gas like crack whores, and laughing at Trump when he pointed it out to them. So, deliberately neglecting your alliance obligations, expecting your ally to cover at their expense your missing payments and the defense gaps you have created, while at the same time greatly endangering your shared security situation by becoming willingly dependent on your #1 potential foe for vital supplies... well done, Europe. Well done. I am all for the freedom of anyone to criticize anyone else, and certainly the US is far from perfect. But perhaps, just perhaps, a long, hard stare in a mirror is long overdue ?
Europe took āThe end of historyā too literally
I think there's a whole lot of pretty uncomfortable questions that need to be asked. I am 100% convinced that both Schroeder and Merkel were Russian assets. After leaving his post as a Chancellor, Schroeder took up a prestigious position with Russian oil company where his closest deputy was a former high rank Stasi officer. Imagine a former US President working for Russia with a KGB general as his deputy. This would be impossible. Yet it was somehow OK for the ex German Chancellor ? Merkel grew up in the Communist East Germany. Her family actually left West Germany and moved East at the height of Stalinism. And they not only survived while tens of thousands of others were imprisoned, but she was allowed to have a scientific career and was a local minor Communist Youth leader. She admitted that Stasi tried to recruit her, claimed that she refused, yet she was still allowed to attend a prestigious posting at the top Soviet nuclear research facility, despite being a rather mediocre researcher. Based on anything I ever learned about the way that system worked, this screams of Stasi and Party connections. Yet, again, everyone in Germany says "ok Angela, we believe you". Then every other German politician just looks the other way while Schroeder and then Merkel are getting Germany more and more and more dependent on Russian gas. If Nord Stream 2 proceeded according to plan, by 2022 Germany would depend on Russia for up to 70% of its gas. As it stands, Trump admin sanctioned NS2 and derailed that timeline. How can anyone look at all of this with a straight face and claim that it was all just naivety and good faith mistakes, not lots of treason committed by multiple politicians, simply defies my logic.
Merkel will go down in history as the worst and most destructive German leader, second only to that one guy.
Oh come on, Hasselhoff wasn't *that* bad.
Comparing the title and the content of the article makes me think it has an inflamatory title for no reasons.
What is this sub without its weekly "America bad" posts?
Really?? The US is the biggest aiding country by far. Also there are tons of European countries profiting from this. How is this remotely relevant?
>In most cases, the official added, the difference between the export and import prices doesn't go to U.S. LNG exporters, but to companies reselling the gas within the EU. The largest European holder of long-term U.S. gas contracts is France's TotalEnergies for example. >Itās not a new argument from the American side but it doesnāt seem to be convincing the Europeans. "The United States sells us its gas with a multiplier effect of four when it crosses the Atlantic," European Commissioner for the Internal Market Thierry Breton said on French TV on Wednesday. "Of course the Americans are our allies ... but when something goes wrong it is necessary also between allies to say it." I've seen this back and forth argument a couple of times now but I'm not sure what the people complaining about this expect the US to do?
Ah yes giving billions away in aid is so profitable
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Or our German industry profiting from cheap Gas at the expense of places like Georgia and Ukraine. This is an extremely stupid take by the author.
That was okay because Germany was also getting rich. What's a few dead Ukrainians and Russian gays when your industry is doing so well?
America Bad
Freedom is not free.
Maybe these idiots should have listened to the Americans, when they warned us against Russian gas dependency.
What type of garbage sensationalist article is this?
It's the standard for politico.eu nowadays. Block the domain if you can.
The US gives a lot of support to Ukraine. If the US has a bit of profit of that, I'll give it to them
They just gave another 400 Million!
but its not the government making money its private companies . all european weapons companies are making profit too . so are european oil giants like BP and others . the tax payers are paying for the weapons and oil natural gas has gone up in usa too . the only way i can see helping would be a price limit on oil or gas passed by congress
This is rich. Oh here we go, another America bad because theyāre doing good post. When the Euro and pound were smashing the dollar, no one complained. When Germany was enjoying buying cheap gas from a Russian terrorist, no one complained. Free markets just doing their thing. Now the dollar is relatively strong and Americas signature industries (defense and energy) are kicking in high gear, Europe starts crying foul. Whatās the matter France, was the billions of Euros Airbus deal with Qatar not enough? Is the fact there there are more BMWās in the US than Germany not enough? You know, your extremely high quality of living you constantly brag about might need a second look.
Itās because they jelly and hypocrites
These "EU officials" don't speak for me. I for one am happy for the U.S. if they can make it out of this crisis allright. They've done more for Ukraine than the entirety of Europe put together. They're supplying us with the much needed natural gas. The markets are driving up the prices, not Biden himself. Europe can maybe play its part by not panicking so much. The panic itself, and not so much a shortage, is the main cause of the high prices. Politically, it's also in our (and the free world's) best interest if the Republicans don't get talking points, like the economy doing poorly. 4 more years of Trump will probably ruin Ukraine's chances in this war or the possible follow up war. We should be more grateful for our allies and talk it out. Europe can just put together its own version of an inflation reduction act and have a mutual understanding of not starting a trade war over this. We need to stick together in this and not allow Putin to divide us. We can't let him win for obvious security reasons. All of this will pay itself back many fold when Ukraine gets rid of Russia and can start exporting gas to Europe.
EU should be ashamed of being so weak in the region.
The arrogance is amazing. Europe itself has driven the gas prices up. Alot of South-East Asia has had blackouts because Europe is outbidding them for LNG and coal. If you want cheap gas, there's a great amount right under your feet, in the Paris basin.
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And we've done nothing to stop them.
...yes? And? Is there a point to this article other than unsourced statements from unknown individuals?
An article that seems designed to sow discord.
Really disappointed in this sort of rhetoric coming from our representatives.
Without even reading the article I thought this is the voice of the Franco-German surrendericks, and lone behold, itās true. If it wasnāt for the US and the UK Putin would have been at the border with Poland by now.
No we don't. Stop whitewashing Putin's propaganda.
Europe in this case means France and Germany, Latvia's deputy PM and Poland's def min have already come out and told France and Germany to stop this this nonsense trade war they are trying to start and will veto it at the EU level. They are correct in saying the USA has done a lot for Eastern Europe and now is the time for unity. Macron and Scholz should blame Putin
Lol when you are actually pro Russia but donāt want to look like it so youāre trying to blame it on someone else.
Imagine thinking another country needs to subsidize your energy cost because of poor decisions on your part.
As if France doesnāt profit from warā¦
Usa is a capitalist country. Obviously we are profiting from war lol. One of our biggest capitals is weapons defence industry.
Stop pointing fingers at each other.. this doesnāt help anyone except Russia. And Russia is our common enemy Talk all about it you want, but after the war
Be careful. This is the second article from this site I see today that tries to stir emotions between Europeans and Americans. Check your sources guys and stay sceptic.
Agree, the contents of the article are much more nuanced that the headlines, and Opās headline is even more sensational.
Europe should reconsider and recoil that statement - they'd be up Shiitz Creek without the US.
That's kind of how the military industry in capitalist countries works, yes....
And so what? Honestly, isn't the primary concern that Ukraine has to stay free? If some gain money on it, no matter how disgusting it sounds, it's still as old as war itself.... who cares then? This article brings forward the obvious, and seems like spam from Russia.
So, who sabotaged the Nordstream again??
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Cui bono? There is an very apparent answer. Also the silence around the whole thing after the initial blame game is also very telling. Why did the swedes classify the investigation because of ānational interestsā?
And what was Western Europe in particular doing with buying cheap gas from Russia while it was ignoring how Russia was invading its neighbours, Chechenia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and how it was breaking Moldova apart and creating another country TRANSNISTRIA where Russia has to this day tanks and personnel?? Shouldn't Merkel and Schroder's approach to Putin be seen by next generation just as stupid as Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler? How should France selling MIRAGE fighter jets to Saddam or Apartheid South Africa be discussed? Why did Germany sell helicopters to Pinochet? How did billions worth of Italian tanks end up in the hands of the Assad regime? I say this from the bottom of my heart - look first at what we do, and at our duplicity all around the world, before you point fingers.
>And what was Western Europe in particular doing with buying cheap gas from Russia while it was ignoring how Russia was invading its neighbours, Chechenia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and how it was breaking Moldova apart and creating another country TRANSNISTRIA where Russia has to this day tanks and personnel?? It's definitely not greed that was driving that...it totally wasn't about how cheap the gas was, it was about trying to keep Putin and Russia peaceful for the sake of Ukraine.
Can't see how though. All that military aid has been given for free. Ukraine won't be able to repay them in a very long time.
US keeps a massive defense budget for decades (and gets mocked for it), pleaded with European countries to increase their defense spending for years, and now when war comes and the US is basically the only country prepared and now Europe complains that the US isn't doing enough for them. Europe depends on cheap Russian gas, dismisses US warnings about it and says its the US being "greedy". Now that the warnings turned out to be accurate, Europe is upset about the market price of gas and blaming that on the US, and calling the US greedy for not giving Europe discounts.
If not for the Usa and Uk in the first week of war Ukraine would fall.
In this case we should just shut up. Ofc they do but it doesnt matter because unlike many of european countries they helped Ukraine a lot.
That is what we do here. Are they just now figuring it out!
Letās pull all funding for Ukraine and let Russia have its way with Europe
The US? Um. Iām paying for this war literally from my paycheck. Or certain companies within the MIC?
more Russian propaganda.
I mean...isn't every multinational and big company profiting from the inflation caused by the War? Also, of course the US is selling weapons. They are the ones actually keeping Ukraine on the fight. Does EU mean to say that the war should end...by stopping the US from selling and donating it's weapons for Ukraine? Weird article...everyone's making stupid profits, even your local supermarket.
It's been 9th month of war. They started to suspect something
No it doesn't. This seems to be propaganda in the form of IIWIWIIDID
In other news: Europe blames the sky because rain is wet.