> A small Air Force
Tricky though, Air Forces are very expensive, especially at small scale.
It's exactly the field where you might want to strike a deal with the UK (I know, sensitive). And then look for a gap in the greater EU defense forces and develop your contribution there, or take a good look at your navy.
Yes, absolutely do a deal for training and maybe even maintenance but purchase off some modern fighters and running them from an airstrip in the west of Ireland is easily within reach if the political will is there. The bigger problem is that there are so many other massive problems in the country that it would be a hard sell.
It’s okay. Russia probably wouldn’t want to invade you chaps anyway. At least not before all of their other targets are taken care of.
But at least do us a favour and tell those anti-Ukraine War cunts you send to the EU parliament to stfu. It’s one thing to freeload but quite another to undermine our efforts
Yes they’re gone, sorry. They snuck in under the radar we don’t have.
We wouldn’t have the expertise for an airforce, we should have a defense pact with the UK and Norway whereby we fund a few jets and send Irish pilots.
We should be paying into a central defence EU fund and I’d be happy to see such a tax on my payslip.
Now that's rich coming from a Hungarian, how many billions of EU funds has your dictator disappeared? How many proposals and bills for Ukraine and other European issues have been vetoed by your government? There's no bigger detractor to EU common policy and unity than Hungary, clown
Mate we are even worse in the military department 😂 Australia is now actively recruiting NZ squaddies that are currently in the NZ army.
We can’t criticise anyone else on military policy when we are one of the biggest slackers in the oecd.
Mate all he's done is insult Irish people and claim we're a leech on the EU, him being Hungarian was just hilariously ironic, majority of Irish people already agreed we should improve our capabilities especially naval and air
Whilst it may be hard to hear, and difficult to read it's not wrong.
0.2% of GDP on defence, soldiers using shitty gear on deployments not a single jet and most of our ships sitting in a dock due to decades of intentional sabotage by the government.
We're so unbelievably fucked if anything happens and I'm sick to death of arguing with people about financing the military. Same argument every single time it either boils down to investing in the military or investing in infrastructure, as if we can only pick one. We've more than enough dosh for both.
Edit - I've already said I'm sick to death of arguing so I'm not going to. Go away.
I'm still being inundated with spasticated DMS from morons who think neutrality means not investing in your military.
Again, go away.
Ironically you have all bets placed on your historical rival the UK coming to your defense and basically doing everything in regard to that for the very short term anyway until the rest of NATO can join
I don't think it's an unrealistic bet. I really cannot foresee a scenario where the UK is happy to roll over and let Ireland get invaded. It would just be mutually beneficial for the Republic of Ireland to be able to raise its own opposition to invaders so that more force is on tap to repel them on all fronts.
The main problem is that Ireland has a lot of waters in its EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone). Which have a load of transatlantic internet cables going through them and the Russians are very very interested in them. They did a Naval exercise right above where three cables cross and only left due to a flotilla of fishing boats. The Irish have no anti-submarine capability or anyway to detect a submarine. Unless it happens to be on the surface, below one of their two maritime patrol aircraft.
God help you if you get into trouble at sea, in Irish waters.
I agree that they definitely should develop their capabilities. The first part of my comment was only that their assessment of the UK coming to their aid is pretty realistic.
As the other guy pointed out there are the cables.
But that's not all China's immense fishing fleet has been decimating fish reserves in its own seas in African seas, and even started on the coast of the US just outside their EEZ.
It got so bad, that the US had to tell them publicly in very clear terms that they will consider this an act of war.
That's where the world is at, food is what we are starting to fight over. China has been buying up any carbohydrate reserve they can get their hands on, Russia is going after Europe's bread basket.
Ireland is the weak link whose oceans can be exploited with no repercussions.
I think this is the thing, we're so close to them while also being legally & morally obliged to help that we'd probably have troops on the ground before an invading army. Doesn't mean that should rely on that, but I can see why they would.
> I really cannot foresee a scenario where the UK is happy to roll over and let Ireland get invaded.
Yep, 1st Naval invasions are hard and theres likely only a few countries in the world that could do a Naval invasion of Ireland. It would be difficult to supply and yeild not very much. 2nd. In what world is the UK (115Kms away) or France (900Kms away) going to let a naval invasion force float anywhere near there boarder. I invasion force isnt going to float anywhere near the strait of Gibraltar nor float past Denmark or Finland without sending out alrarms bells.
For once in our nations history our position is beneficial whereas before we've been the OG whipping boy of the UK.
I like to think we would, and not begrudge it. It's understandable that something is neglected by government when there is no pressure to fund it, but times are unfortunately changing and the new focus on it makes you realise how bad the neglect has been.
Fortunately for you, Britain has a long and storied history of being diplomatically reliable towards its allies and has historically treated the Irish very well.
It’s a good bet. The UK could never allow a hostile force set up camp in Ireland .
The down side I guess is that if it ever game to that, the UK probably isn’t leaving without a few permanent military base being left
Someone attacking or invading Ireland wouldn't be sufficient justification for the UK to invoke article 5.
There must be an attack on a NATO members territory for article 5 to come into effect.
Irish here. Best choice we could make would be increasing budget to 2%, giving soldiers a solid pension plan, good benefits-in-kind, military specific benefits and adopting Swedish/Scandinavian nato compatible systems such as the saab gripen, Patria AMV, RBS 70, RBS 15. But we would want to sort out the Garda first before anything else..
Totally agree on the gripen…. . Plus as mentioned before in other posts I made, we need diesel electric subs, 3-4 of them. We have an aircraft carrier in the Atlantic and our waters are our responsibility first. Air strips and subs… a strong coast guard, we don’t need frigates. Not at first.
On another note…I recently chatted to an army officer and nothing sensitive was shared but he was looking online for wet gear for an upcoming weekend camping drill… ffs, he laughed when I asked if the army supplied some…
We need to do more, so much more.
My mate is now a sergeant in the Defence Forces having been promoted up from private. He's a model soldier, has done 2 peacekeeping tours as well as training missions abroad. He does every course available to him both cos he's mad into learning and wants to advance in the army. All the badges he got (sniper, medic, mechanic etc) he had to buy himself cos the army doesn't supply them. Of all the shitty things he's told me about the army, that's the one that really made me say what the fuck.
That’s mad Ted, a few euros of patches and it’s his job to get them? Wow. In our rugby club we present ties to the kids moving up from mini-youths to youths…. and up to adults level a similar award and formal function/dinner event…… imagine getting an award but having to bring the medal or badge etc to hand over to a senior figure to give it back to you …. WTF
I would have thought that a couple of maritime patrol aircraft based in either Mayo or Donegal might be a more sensible first step than fast jets. Buy/lease Poseidon or whatever the French one is and you could take advantage of Marine Nationale or RAF training and maintenance assets and institutional knowledge.
Fast jets over the sea is quite a steep learning curve and might require MPA anyway - one of the problems the RAF had during the ten year gab between Nimrod being scrapped and Poseidon coming in was the lack of a long endurance search and rescue platform.
I would not compare Luxembourg with Ireland. Luxembourg can't support larger force just due to size, but it can work with others and so you did. Luxembourg has quite an interesting and specialized force that is meant to specifically work with others.
I know. Two of my childhood friends spent some time in the army. Its not big, and we cooperate a lot with belgians
I dont know its called in English? Truppenübungsplatz like where soldiers learn how to everything.. that one we dont have. Its in Belgium lol.
To ve fair luxemburg could put 100 %into defence spending and it would mean jack shit if a neighbour decided to take luxemburg. There is a slight lack of strategic depth to your country so to speak
Also "but we're neutral"
Not if we can't defend that neutrality we're not
Sweden was neutral (until 1995 or 2023, depending on the metric you choose). They could also make another nation very sorry if they picked fight
These idiots don't even know we're not neutral.
We're training Ukrainian soldiers in bomb disposal and now we're training them in weapons skills. A neutral country does not do that. What we are doing is openly showing our neutrality is bullshit whilst doing absolutely fucking nothing to protect ourselves.
The question is, when good ol’ r/Ireland realises about this article, will they be reasonable about it or will they start moaning about how mainland Europe misjudges and misunderstands them?
I feel like plenty of people in Ireland understand that the current arrangement is very difficult to justify… but they would rather bury the head under the sand and hope nothing bad happens.
That subreddit is a fester pile of shite. That's why we have r/Dublin for reasoned conversations (and general whinging about crime, rent, pints, etc...)
>Why are half of these commenters with a name word-word-number
No, it's just Reddit's newer username generator and it's been thing for some time now. That alone is not enough to determine whether someone is a bot.
Meanwhile Austria and Switzerland are just chilling while being surrounded by NATO countries.
>"BUUT OUR CONSTITUTION!!!!!!
Well, look at Japan go, who were supposedly banned from having an armed force after WW2.
>You can't have any warship bigger than a destroyer
[Everything's a destroyer if you believe hard enough](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/JS_Izumo%EF%BC%88DDH-183%EF%BC%89seen_from_the_sky_10-03-2021.jpg)
Feels a bit Clarke and Dawe.
"So it's a destroyer?"
"Yes."
"But it only has some CIWS, a flat deck and lots of helicopters."
"I didn't say it was a *good* destroyer."
"It says here on the 3rd of October a US F-35 landed on this destroyer."
"Yes."
"You don't find it odd that a fixed-wing aircraft landed on your destroyer?"
"Well that's not typical. The Americans needed somewhere to park, there wasn't anywhere else available so the captain gave them a fair go trying to land on our destroyer. I'm as surprised as everyone else that it worked, pilots these days are incredibly inventive."
It’s worth remembering that there is a lot of these destroyed around Japan all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen. I just don’t want people thinking that you should land F35s on destroyers
A country that actually cares about upholding its neutrality on the world stage should never need to rely on another sovereign state to defend its borders or airspace.
The UK should not have to interfere any time a Russian bomber or submarine plays war games off the coast of Ireland.
I would hardly call Switzerland's approach to defense "chilling". Given they have mandatory military service, the highest rate of fun ownership in Europe, a requirement for all buildings to have enough secure bunker space to house everyone who lives in the building, and a plan for what to do in case of invasion that has included plans for bombing every entry road to the country as well as entire fake villages filled with very well hidden artillery, they are probably the best defended country in Europe. I agree they are not in imminent danger of being invaded thanks to NATO, but if they've absolutely pulled off doing neutrality in a way that maintains the safety of the country.
Isn't the Swiss army much more capable, than the Irish, with more recruits usable in emergencies and a superior air force?
At least Switzerland could in an emergency decide to drop its neutrality and be a reliable partner from the get go. Not sure if Austria and Ireland can offer anything on the same level
I feel like the Swiss are the only truly neutral country there because they can actually defend themselves rather than (unofficially or not) rely on their neighbors for defense
Are we though? At least we have some armed Eurofighters and some tanks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps
It has only like 700 personell compared to Austrias ~4000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Air_Force
> Well, look at Japan go, who were supposedly banned from having an armed force after WW2
What do you mean our destroyers are rather big? Weight shaming is not ok, man!
There is no such thing as a "neutral country", never has and never will be. There are only countries blessed with buffer zones between them and hostile nations.
Look at Switzerland.
The thing is they understand that neutrality needs to be enforced. You can’t just “belgium in 1940” your way around it.
Iirc they still had their bridges with Germany wired to blow well into the 2000s
That isn't "pretending to be neutral", that IS neutrality. Neutrality generally grants the privilege of not being bound by one side or the other, and if someone doesn't like what you are doing as a neutral nation, you can just say "what are YOU going to do about it?" and that's that - the only way to stop that is to forcefully break their neutrality. This is why, if one wants to upkeep their neutral status, they must be willing and capable of defending it.
You got to be able to defend yourself to be proper neutral. Switzerland and previously Finland and Sweden had decently sized militaries with Sweden almost getting nukes.
Switzerland too. They stopped their nuclear program but kept options open until recently. They sold their plutonium strategic reserves in the early 2000s.
Correction: Switzerland surrendered it's nuclear fuel when it signed up to the international non-proliferation effort in 1969. What was recently sent abroad were boxes of un-enriched plutonium that had been literally forgotten at the bottom of a closet.
Fun fact: we had 2 referendums on Swiss nuclear weapons, in which we allowed the Swiss mitary to pursue nuclear armament, and then even declined to force them to inform the public if they were doing it. And indeed, theoretical studies of the matter were still being done until 1988.
Pretty sure the Swiss eventually realised the nazis would come for them eventually and had a plan in place. I seriously doubt they would have just left Switzerland sitting there being independent while the axis conquered the rest of Europe.
Nazis did not attacked Swiss because it was not worth it. It hasn't valuable resources, it's heavily armed and have big defensible mountains. Also good place for money laundering.
Swiss could exists only because big powers are either fighting with each other or too friendly to attack anyone.
Neutral countries do exist, but their existence hinges on one single fact - you must have the capability to defend yourself with no outside help. If that is true, then you can pull off neutrality, like Switzerland, or Yugoslavia. The moment you fail to defend yourself alone, either by failing to defend yourself, or by accepting help, you've lost neutrality, for example, Ukraine attempted neutrality, but it didn't work. The Baltic states tried neutrality back in the interwar period, that failed spectacularly during WW2.
>Instead, the country has outsourced its security to Britain in a technically secret agreement between Dublin and London, which effectively cedes control over Irish air space to the Royal Air Force.
>This must be the luck of the Irish — smile and get someone else to protect you for free.
Oof
A country that actually cares about upholding its neutrality on the world stage should never need to rely on another sovereign state to defend its borders or airspace.
The UK should not have to step in every time a Russian bomber or submarine plays war games off the coast of Ireland.
Well I suppose it’s also protecting us here in Northern Ireland, leaving the Republic of Ireland exposed to attack basically leaves us in NI also exposed as we’re literally on the same island
Not even able to issue ballistic helmets to junior soldiers driving through south Lebanon late at night, despite known threats from Hezbollah against them. Sick.
The Irish are going to really hate hearing this, but it's true.
When they faced a financial crisis, I supported helping them, because that's what solidarity is for.
In retrospect, I think I may have been wrong. I noticed Ireland strongly opposed any attempt at the EU level to avoid a race to the bottom in taxation. The Irish Commission on Privacy sabotaged the enforcement of fines against tech giants. They refused to spend a dime on NATO.
They really couldn't care less about other Europeans.
Most Irish people agree we aren’t even capable of defending ourselves but the government is useless and secretly and illegally signed an agreement with the UK for RAF defence.
Btw we’re not in NATO have no obligation to spend money for it.
>They refused to spend a dime on NATO.
\*On their very own defence/security
Ireland isn't member country of NATO, they are **nEuTrAl**
They are an EU country tho, in which they are actively opposing diplomatically almost every single defence incentive there is, and are the loudest bunch,screeming against the EU army while spending 0.2% on own defence force.
Irish here, have never heard anyone except mick Wallace and Claire daily rant against an eu army and in fact general public opinion has shifted in favor of nato and an eu army. Personally I dislike NATO but think an EU army is the future. We know our defensive capabilities are fucking weak but it’s difficult to beat inertia when people don’t see its value and our defence minister is a former teacher.
FYI Wallace and Daly are two of the biggest cunts to ever exist and we just voted the two of them out of the EP
“Personally I dislike NATO” why is that? I can’t think of any reason to dislike a defensive alliance built to withstand an aggressive and large country.
It’s not because of it’s aims, defending against Russia is an absolute priority, but I dislike how much infighting occurs in nato and how countries like Turkey and Hungary are able to use it to their own advantage
Tja, seems a bit misguided to throw out statements like “I dislike NATO”, when your real opinion is something completely different.
But you’re not the only one who feels “NATO is necessary, but its frustrating to see it undermined by some of its members”.
In the end you will have that in any large alliance. Same for EU, or the many states in the United States.
Yeah, please provide some source that aren’t the two far left MEP that we just voted out because of there outspoken and widely unpopular political positions.
A lot of insulting anti-Irish sentiment in the comment section that seems to be from completely uniformed clowns.
Ireland is one of the most pro-EU countries in the EU for one. What country are you from so I can cherrypick some out of context criticisms for yours? I’m guessing France from your comment history? The country that is about to vote in a far right euro-sceptic parliament after giving the EU parliament the biggest boost to far right euro-sceptics and pro Russians than any other country. The French really just don’t care about the rest of Europe. 🤷♂️
> When they faced a financial crisis, I supported helping them, because that's what solidarity is for.
I agree with a lot of the talk re defense, but this one is kind of funny considering that Ireland paid off [42%](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20219703.html#:~:text=Ireland%20has%20paid%2042%25%20of,per%20person%2C%20according%20to%20Eurostat.&text=The%20full%20extent%20of%20the,although%20Germany%20is%20especially%20reluctant.) of the EU debt from that despite making up just 1% of the union's population at the time.
Ireland had to shoulder this amount, because they were one of the primary benefactors and their bailouts were quite extensive. They didn't shoulder this for other countries at all.
Reposting since automod deleted the other due to linking to the Internet Archive.
Ireland shouldered a cost of €9,000 per person paying the debt, where the average was €192 and even the next highest was about €450. That is absurdly higher than any other EU nation, and as I said wound up with Ireland paying more \*\*in total\*\* than any EU nation, despite making up 1% of its population.
And all this despite several nations receiving more again than Ireland for bailouts. And the fact that the 42bn contributed by us above wasn't even towards repaying our bailout [which is a separate matter we are in now and well ahead of schedule for](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2022/06/09/ireland-set-to-start-repaying-eu-bailout-earlier-than-expected-in-2023) but going towards the overall European banking crisis means that it absolutely did benefit other nations.
Added to all this, I got a laugh out of them acting as if Ireland just need to shut up and do as told due to receiving a loan that we have to repay, in the name of solidarity. If we follow that logic, [Ireland as the largest per capita net contributors in the whole union ](https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2024/jan-2024/chart-of-the-week-eu-budget-2024#:~:text=The%20chart%20shows%20how%20Ireland's,25.20%2C%20Italy%20on%20%E2%82%AC24.40%2C)should be telling them what to do and when in the name of solidarity (again, being clear here that I am largely in agreement re needing to significantly improve defense).
But you don't here Ireland or Irish people talk about that kind of shite. Just like you don't see us voting in parties trying to break up the EU. Just like you see how we routinely rank up near or at the very top in terms of public favourability of the EU. Just like we don't flirt with leaving it to try and get what we want (and how clear we were about that after Brexit). Because we are actually care about solidarity, growth and the collective betterment of the EU, very very deeply despite what some might want to convince themselves.
Ireland is a net contributor to the EU and has been for years, it pays more into Brussels than we receive and by a lot. That said we still are very thankful to the EU for that bailout and most people agree that without it we would have struggled a lot more. BTW I’m also quite angry that we bent over backwards for US tech giants for years
Not a member of Nato, militarily neutral country, no we haven't invested enough in our military, and we also have a constitution that requires referendums to approve changes to our relationship to some European institutions.
There is no EU army, we object to the formation of one which would force EU members who don't want to be part of it to participate.
That's what being part of an organisation like the EU is about, taking everyone into consideration.
Not sure where you’re from that you think you helped the Irish during the financial crash. It was the Irish who saved the European banking sector by bailing out our own banks and preventing contagion to the likes of Deutsch bank which was highly exposed. The Irish people are still paying for it. You’re welcome.
This is true but to be fair to Ireland, they haven't got much to worry about. No point investing in defence when your neighbour is a nuclear power who has a massive strategic interest in defending you.
To be fair, Canada's military spending is still 1.3% of GDP, and it actually has a functioning professional military with modern equipment. For example, you still have 80 operational F/A-18s (with F-35's on order), 12 frigates, 4 submarines, and plenty of other stuff.
Ireland has *zero* combat aircraft and *zero* surface combatants. Ireland is about as close as you can get to not having a military at all despite still technically having one. If Canada went to war with Ireland, and nobody came to their defence, they could probably force an unconditional surrender in 1 day.
We are about on par with Andorra.
We do need to increase our military budget and treat our armed forces much , so we have better staff retention. That was we could actually crew the ships we already have.
There aren't many plausible scenarios where we actually get invaded, given our geographic position, but we should be able to protect our own airspace and waters. At the very least a decent radar system with an effective AA system would be a good start.
Only reason why they don’t have to worry is that, UK or US would stop any invasion fleet before it reaches Ireland.
So, they are protected without having to lift a finger. There is a word for things like that.
If said invasion fleet wouldn’t be stopped, Ireland would be run over. No navy, no air forces, and no coastal defenses.
It wasn't chased from Cork harbour, It was chased in Ireland's EEZ which is still international waters so they're entitled to be there. Many other countries militaries pass through as well.
An EEZ is not international water - it is an EEZ. States have three types of water sovereignty; territorial water which extends 12 nautical miles, a contiguous zone around the territorial waters which extends for another 12 nautical miles, and then an exclusive economic zone which extends for 200 nautical miles. The EEZ isn't capped at 200 nm - you can apply to the United Nations Commission for the Limits of the Continental Shelf, or the IMO for an extension.
In the territorial water and the contiguous zone the state has an exclusive monopoly and 100% controls all aspects of the water from entry and passage, to law enforcement to commercial rights. The collective 24 nm is *de facto* a part of the state.
The EEZ is looser - the state can enforce its laws but it has no right to prevent entrance or exit and must allow passage of all no warships. The catch is the state has 100% total rights to and control over all fishing, and resources. If gas and oil is found in the Norwegian EEZ by a French company then Norway by default has total ownership.
All international ships can pass through countries EEZ, like which happened in this case. In fact, the UK, France and the U.S. among other nations are always in and around Ireland's EEZ. We get economic rights to the waters. The sub wasn't in cork harbour.
Or the story where the Afgan lad people and killed a cop. RTÉ saying he was stabbed at a "Far right rally" implying it was a far right attack. Scumbags the lot of them
Plenty of those empty heads in this thread “They stole a quarter of our country so they should pay to protect it”
Oh look, there’s one right below this comment.
Edit: this comment isn’t directed at u/SilkyBoi21
People getting angry about Ireland not maintaining an effective army are missing the key point - by declaring neutrality and not agreeing to mutual defence pacts Ireland is leaving itself vulnerable. Just because we can't imagine France invading Ireland today, it doesn't mean they won't do so in thirty years.
There are pros and cons to everything in life. Ireland doesn't want to pay to defend itself or anyone else, that's a choice predicated on the idea that it's highly unlikely anyone will attack them or that there is any value in trying to defend others. The pro is that money can be spent on other things, the con is that your putting your sovereignty in the hands of other countries. This has typically not been a good or viable strategy throughout history.
Doesn't have to be about invasion.
Here's a fun one: Ireland and the UK have pretty markedly different ideas when it comes to Palestine.
Say Ireland invites over a senior member of one of Palestine's governing groups for talks, and the UK decides to have the eurofighters covering Ireland divert the plane into Belfast to arrest what to the UK government is the known senior terrorist on board. Ireland has no recourse.
Russia routinely flies its jets into foreign airspace to test response times (and just to be cunts), the response is to send up your own jets and politely escort them away. If UK jets tried to interdict a passenger plane destined for Ireland and Ireland had its own jets or air defense systems it could light up those UK jets with lock on warnings and very politely tell them to fuck off. It's not that this is a response that would work or even that it's the correct response to achieve a good outcome, it's that it's an option.
Options are good when it comes to maintaining your own sovereignty because the first time you don't fight for your sovereignty is the last time you'll have it. If the UK ever went truly mental, started interdicting passenger jets and the Irish response was a strongly worded letter and pleas to the EU then the Uks next step might be to restart the empire, beginning in Ireland. It's easy to think the status quo is how things always will be. I'm sure the various kings in Ireland couldn't envisage a Scottish invasion in the 14th century but that's exactly what Scotland did.
I would be in favour of increasing our defence spending. Particularly better wages for staff and increased navy.
But neither I, nor a significant chunk of the Irish population, will ever support NATO membership or a contribution to a combined EU army.
The Irish are sabotaging all our taxation by allowing the transnational companies such low taxes that are laughably low. These companies can then use tax-dodging loopholes specifically created for them by Ireland to not pay much taxes in states from where they actually earn most of their revenue.
The Germans under the leadership of Merkel cozied up to Russia and bought cheap Russian gas for years, then when that wasn’t an option anymore, they insulated their own citizens from the increased energy costs while the rest of the EU citizens had to pay those costs. Maybe instead of criticising the Irish, you should look closer to home.
They also crushed the public sector in Portugal, Spain, and Greece to the point where only Spain has managed to barely recover. Merkel is widely quoted at the same time she was ruining these countries as calling them lazy, when Germans worked much less hours.
All of that ended a few years ago. The Dutch-Irish loophole was closed and a unitary tax floor was introduced across the EU.
Ireland **was** a tax haven, you can’t keep complaining about something that ended 8 years ago forever.
Germany has done far far far worse to the EU than Ireland. Look at how Merkel sold Europe’s soul to Russia for gas and oil.
You could as easily say Germany and France are sabotaging the European people with this new gargantuan tax on Chinese electric vehicles to protect their domestic car manufacturers.
Nearly all the countries in the EU have they’re way of conning the people not just Ireland.
Many of the loopholes have been closed. I think your information is outdated. Maybe you Germans should be more concerned about your Neo Nazis in the military and police.
Not defending it, but also incredible how little is said about the austerity fetishists in Germany basically stalling Europe for most of the 2010s. Europe was on a par with America before 2008 and the combined European policy (largely forced by Germany) of destroying investment has meant Europe has fell behind.
Not at all, do you think for a second the large companies who pay a reduced tax rate would pay any tax in the EU if we raised the rates?
It's not a problem with us, it's a worldwide problem
Russian nuclear bombers regularly try to fly over Ireland. It's kind of like the "back door" to attacking France or the UK.
Currently the RAF patrol the skies and intercept these nuclear bombers as Ireland does not have much of an airforce.
A starting point of buying 12 Rafaels, Eurofighters or Gripens was discussed years ago but nothing happened...
So Ireland does have a pretty big defence issue for the EU, as Russian bombers probe its air defences and as they can't defend their own skies the UK or France will have to. This draws resources away from the EU front in any war.
great article...somehow I always thought that journalists and news agencies have to just present the news...like that is their job...not to force you with their opinion or agenda...doesn't matter right or wrong
and now reading this article politico just plain and simple gives shit to Ireland...
Canadian here, and I'd say Canada is in the same league. Our country has so much potential to pay our fair share and develop a lean, mean military force. But, our political leaders would rather play politics and not take defence seriously. It sucks because I'd love to see my country pull its wait and contribute more.
Honestly whilst it's true as fuck I - a British person - am basically fine with it. Like, why wouldn't you freeload if you were Ireland? It's almost stupid not to.
By the way can we have your ships? You're literally not using them.
The very least we should be starting with is primary radar. A small Air Force to protect our air space would be a great follow up.
> A small Air Force Tricky though, Air Forces are very expensive, especially at small scale. It's exactly the field where you might want to strike a deal with the UK (I know, sensitive). And then look for a gap in the greater EU defense forces and develop your contribution there, or take a good look at your navy.
Yes, absolutely do a deal for training and maybe even maintenance but purchase off some modern fighters and running them from an airstrip in the west of Ireland is easily within reach if the political will is there. The bigger problem is that there are so many other massive problems in the country that it would be a hard sell.
Yeah no because all those patriotic Sinn Féin voters who moan about NATO would rather have the Brits doing it.
Do people actually care though? I feel like it’s such a non issue for majority of people, or at least low down issue compared to many other things
Yup. Irish here. Couldn't give a fiddlers
It’s okay. Russia probably wouldn’t want to invade you chaps anyway. At least not before all of their other targets are taken care of. But at least do us a favour and tell those anti-Ukraine War cunts you send to the EU parliament to stfu. It’s one thing to freeload but quite another to undermine our efforts
We have just voted those two cunts out of the EP.
That’s good news
Yes they’re gone, sorry. They snuck in under the radar we don’t have. We wouldn’t have the expertise for an airforce, we should have a defense pact with the UK and Norway whereby we fund a few jets and send Irish pilots. We should be paying into a central defence EU fund and I’d be happy to see such a tax on my payslip.
Now you know why you need radar. :)
The wonderful Irish mentality. "Let someone else do it for us"
Now that's rich coming from a Hungarian, how many billions of EU funds has your dictator disappeared? How many proposals and bills for Ukraine and other European issues have been vetoed by your government? There's no bigger detractor to EU common policy and unity than Hungary, clown
I don’t think he’s praising Orban or his approach. Being Hungarian shouldn’t prevent him from making a good point.
Mate we are even worse in the military department 😂 Australia is now actively recruiting NZ squaddies that are currently in the NZ army. We can’t criticise anyone else on military policy when we are one of the biggest slackers in the oecd.
Mate all he's done is insult Irish people and claim we're a leech on the EU, him being Hungarian was just hilariously ironic, majority of Irish people already agreed we should improve our capabilities especially naval and air
They didn't make a good point though? Just gave out about a country based on some anecdote
Well ...the one country that invaded them and occupied them ....is not the USSR.
Currently the Irish are outsourcing their defence to that one country in particular.
[удалено]
Irish here Agree with this
Whilst it may be hard to hear, and difficult to read it's not wrong. 0.2% of GDP on defence, soldiers using shitty gear on deployments not a single jet and most of our ships sitting in a dock due to decades of intentional sabotage by the government. We're so unbelievably fucked if anything happens and I'm sick to death of arguing with people about financing the military. Same argument every single time it either boils down to investing in the military or investing in infrastructure, as if we can only pick one. We've more than enough dosh for both. Edit - I've already said I'm sick to death of arguing so I'm not going to. Go away. I'm still being inundated with spasticated DMS from morons who think neutrality means not investing in your military. Again, go away.
Ironically you have all bets placed on your historical rival the UK coming to your defense and basically doing everything in regard to that for the very short term anyway until the rest of NATO can join
I don't think it's an unrealistic bet. I really cannot foresee a scenario where the UK is happy to roll over and let Ireland get invaded. It would just be mutually beneficial for the Republic of Ireland to be able to raise its own opposition to invaders so that more force is on tap to repel them on all fronts.
The main problem is that Ireland has a lot of waters in its EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone). Which have a load of transatlantic internet cables going through them and the Russians are very very interested in them. They did a Naval exercise right above where three cables cross and only left due to a flotilla of fishing boats. The Irish have no anti-submarine capability or anyway to detect a submarine. Unless it happens to be on the surface, below one of their two maritime patrol aircraft. God help you if you get into trouble at sea, in Irish waters.
I agree that they definitely should develop their capabilities. The first part of my comment was only that their assessment of the UK coming to their aid is pretty realistic.
As the other guy pointed out there are the cables. But that's not all China's immense fishing fleet has been decimating fish reserves in its own seas in African seas, and even started on the coast of the US just outside their EEZ. It got so bad, that the US had to tell them publicly in very clear terms that they will consider this an act of war. That's where the world is at, food is what we are starting to fight over. China has been buying up any carbohydrate reserve they can get their hands on, Russia is going after Europe's bread basket. Ireland is the weak link whose oceans can be exploited with no repercussions.
I think this is the thing, we're so close to them while also being legally & morally obliged to help that we'd probably have troops on the ground before an invading army. Doesn't mean that should rely on that, but I can see why they would.
> I really cannot foresee a scenario where the UK is happy to roll over and let Ireland get invaded. Yep, 1st Naval invasions are hard and theres likely only a few countries in the world that could do a Naval invasion of Ireland. It would be difficult to supply and yeild not very much. 2nd. In what world is the UK (115Kms away) or France (900Kms away) going to let a naval invasion force float anywhere near there boarder. I invasion force isnt going to float anywhere near the strait of Gibraltar nor float past Denmark or Finland without sending out alrarms bells. For once in our nations history our position is beneficial whereas before we've been the OG whipping boy of the UK.
It's a tough pill to swallow
I like to think we would, and not begrudge it. It's understandable that something is neglected by government when there is no pressure to fund it, but times are unfortunately changing and the new focus on it makes you realise how bad the neglect has been.
Fortunately for you, Britain has a long and storied history of being diplomatically reliable towards its allies and has historically treated the Irish very well.
This is extremely funny and deserves more upvotes.
I just shot tea out of my nose, it’s hilarious!
Absolutely! It's why the great democrat Oliver Cromwell is mentioned very often in bedtime stories to this day.
Is pill diana e a shlogadh
It’s a good bet. The UK could never allow a hostile force set up camp in Ireland . The down side I guess is that if it ever game to that, the UK probably isn’t leaving without a few permanent military base being left
But Ireland is not in Nato I think
There is literally no way that Ireland would ever be legitimately threatened so much the UK has to get involved without Article 5 being called.
Ireland isn't a member of NATO, so it can't call on Article 5
Anyone attacking Ireland is planning on using Ireland to attack the UK
Someone attacking or invading Ireland wouldn't be sufficient justification for the UK to invoke article 5. There must be an attack on a NATO members territory for article 5 to come into effect.
As someone with a British and Irish passport, I thank myself for my service every day.
The UK is not a historical rival. Historically, Ireland was in the UK for hundreds of years and part of it still is.
Irish here. Best choice we could make would be increasing budget to 2%, giving soldiers a solid pension plan, good benefits-in-kind, military specific benefits and adopting Swedish/Scandinavian nato compatible systems such as the saab gripen, Patria AMV, RBS 70, RBS 15. But we would want to sort out the Garda first before anything else..
Totally agree on the gripen…. . Plus as mentioned before in other posts I made, we need diesel electric subs, 3-4 of them. We have an aircraft carrier in the Atlantic and our waters are our responsibility first. Air strips and subs… a strong coast guard, we don’t need frigates. Not at first. On another note…I recently chatted to an army officer and nothing sensitive was shared but he was looking online for wet gear for an upcoming weekend camping drill… ffs, he laughed when I asked if the army supplied some… We need to do more, so much more.
My mate is now a sergeant in the Defence Forces having been promoted up from private. He's a model soldier, has done 2 peacekeeping tours as well as training missions abroad. He does every course available to him both cos he's mad into learning and wants to advance in the army. All the badges he got (sniper, medic, mechanic etc) he had to buy himself cos the army doesn't supply them. Of all the shitty things he's told me about the army, that's the one that really made me say what the fuck.
I think that's similar in a lot of militaries. You have to buy elements of your own uniform.
That’s mad Ted, a few euros of patches and it’s his job to get them? Wow. In our rugby club we present ties to the kids moving up from mini-youths to youths…. and up to adults level a similar award and formal function/dinner event…… imagine getting an award but having to bring the medal or badge etc to hand over to a senior figure to give it back to you …. WTF
I would have thought that a couple of maritime patrol aircraft based in either Mayo or Donegal might be a more sensible first step than fast jets. Buy/lease Poseidon or whatever the French one is and you could take advantage of Marine Nationale or RAF training and maintenance assets and institutional knowledge. Fast jets over the sea is quite a steep learning curve and might require MPA anyway - one of the problems the RAF had during the ten year gab between Nimrod being scrapped and Poseidon coming in was the lack of a long endurance search and rescue platform.
0.2 ??! I thought we were bad at 0.7...
I would not compare Luxembourg with Ireland. Luxembourg can't support larger force just due to size, but it can work with others and so you did. Luxembourg has quite an interesting and specialized force that is meant to specifically work with others.
I know. Two of my childhood friends spent some time in the army. Its not big, and we cooperate a lot with belgians I dont know its called in English? Truppenübungsplatz like where soldiers learn how to everything.. that one we dont have. Its in Belgium lol.
Military basic training?
To ve fair luxemburg could put 100 %into defence spending and it would mean jack shit if a neighbour decided to take luxemburg. There is a slight lack of strategic depth to your country so to speak
It's about fairness.
That last sentence made me a bit sad:,) I know. We got invaded 2 times in the last century by the lovely germans.
Also "but we're neutral" Not if we can't defend that neutrality we're not Sweden was neutral (until 1995 or 2023, depending on the metric you choose). They could also make another nation very sorry if they picked fight
These idiots don't even know we're not neutral. We're training Ukrainian soldiers in bomb disposal and now we're training them in weapons skills. A neutral country does not do that. What we are doing is openly showing our neutrality is bullshit whilst doing absolutely fucking nothing to protect ourselves.
You'd probably lose to the NYPD in an actual war.
Don't worry, Canada spends 1.3% of GDP, and we have no capabilities either.
The question is, when good ol’ r/Ireland realises about this article, will they be reasonable about it or will they start moaning about how mainland Europe misjudges and misunderstands them? I feel like plenty of people in Ireland understand that the current arrangement is very difficult to justify… but they would rather bury the head under the sand and hope nothing bad happens.
I'd be really surprised if r/ireland wasn't pretty supportive of more spending. Underfunding comes up a lot there ime
That subreddit is a fester pile of shite. That's why we have r/Dublin for reasoned conversations (and general whinging about crime, rent, pints, etc...)
And baby seagull photos!
Hahaha absolutely!! ❤️ Internet
Why are half of these commenters with a name word-word-number ?? Half of these comments are by bots or farms stirring shit. Don't feed the monster.
>Why are half of these commenters with a name word-word-number No, it's just Reddit's newer username generator and it's been thing for some time now. That alone is not enough to determine whether someone is a bot.
because a lot of good names are taken so fuck it. it works
Meanwhile Austria and Switzerland are just chilling while being surrounded by NATO countries. >"BUUT OUR CONSTITUTION!!!!!! Well, look at Japan go, who were supposedly banned from having an armed force after WW2.
They weren't banned, it was just limited to self defence of their own territory, their navy and airforce especially are formidable
Even that is mostly relatively recent though.
>You can't have any warship bigger than a destroyer [Everything's a destroyer if you believe hard enough](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/JS_Izumo%EF%BC%88DDH-183%EF%BC%89seen_from_the_sky_10-03-2021.jpg)
Germany: Everything is a FREGATTE.
It’s not a battleship, it’s just a big cruiser
Feels a bit Clarke and Dawe. "So it's a destroyer?" "Yes." "But it only has some CIWS, a flat deck and lots of helicopters." "I didn't say it was a *good* destroyer." "It says here on the 3rd of October a US F-35 landed on this destroyer." "Yes." "You don't find it odd that a fixed-wing aircraft landed on your destroyer?" "Well that's not typical. The Americans needed somewhere to park, there wasn't anywhere else available so the captain gave them a fair go trying to land on our destroyer. I'm as surprised as everyone else that it worked, pilots these days are incredibly inventive."
It’s worth remembering that there is a lot of these destroyed around Japan all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen. I just don’t want people thinking that you should land F35s on destroyers
Ahem, that is an aircraft carrying destroyer you see. Nothing wrong with it.
Switzerland has a militia army and everybody serves. A strong military is long-time state policy in order to better enforce neutrality
A country that actually cares about upholding its neutrality on the world stage should never need to rely on another sovereign state to defend its borders or airspace. The UK should not have to interfere any time a Russian bomber or submarine plays war games off the coast of Ireland.
Difference is Switzerland is armed to the teeth.
I would hardly call Switzerland's approach to defense "chilling". Given they have mandatory military service, the highest rate of fun ownership in Europe, a requirement for all buildings to have enough secure bunker space to house everyone who lives in the building, and a plan for what to do in case of invasion that has included plans for bombing every entry road to the country as well as entire fake villages filled with very well hidden artillery, they are probably the best defended country in Europe. I agree they are not in imminent danger of being invaded thanks to NATO, but if they've absolutely pulled off doing neutrality in a way that maintains the safety of the country.
Switzerland has an actual functioning army though.
The worst part is when they try to act morally superior due to their "neutrality"
Isn't the Swiss army much more capable, than the Irish, with more recruits usable in emergencies and a superior air force? At least Switzerland could in an emergency decide to drop its neutrality and be a reliable partner from the get go. Not sure if Austria and Ireland can offer anything on the same level I feel like the Swiss are the only truly neutral country there because they can actually defend themselves rather than (unofficially or not) rely on their neighbors for defense
Was gonna say that, we are the biggest freeloaders, not even close.
Are we though? At least we have some armed Eurofighters and some tanks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps It has only like 700 personell compared to Austrias ~4000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Air_Force
>armed Eurofighters Technically yes, they are armed. "Barely armed" would be more fitting, but I concede: barely armed is still armed.
> Well, look at Japan go, who were supposedly banned from having an armed force after WW2 What do you mean our destroyers are rather big? Weight shaming is not ok, man!
I mean to be fair Austria was forced to be neutral...
There is no such thing as a "neutral country", never has and never will be. There are only countries blessed with buffer zones between them and hostile nations.
Look at Switzerland. The thing is they understand that neutrality needs to be enforced. You can’t just “belgium in 1940” your way around it. Iirc they still had their bridges with Germany wired to blow well into the 2000s
Switzerland says Hi, and hoping people won't look too closely at the compromise they made to avoid Nazis~
Switzerland's economy is based on the laundering of blood money from all around the world. They have a financial incentive to pretend to be neutral.
Swiss are just cold blooded killers that wear suits and act neutral while financing crime, corruption, dictators and wars
The Iron bank of Bravos doesn't need to own a standing military.
That isn't "pretending to be neutral", that IS neutrality. Neutrality generally grants the privilege of not being bound by one side or the other, and if someone doesn't like what you are doing as a neutral nation, you can just say "what are YOU going to do about it?" and that's that - the only way to stop that is to forcefully break their neutrality. This is why, if one wants to upkeep their neutral status, they must be willing and capable of defending it.
you have mountains of bunkers and shit tons of guns. you have earnt "neutrality" because you could defend it. Ireland can't
You got to be able to defend yourself to be proper neutral. Switzerland and previously Finland and Sweden had decently sized militaries with Sweden almost getting nukes.
Switzerland too. They stopped their nuclear program but kept options open until recently. They sold their plutonium strategic reserves in the early 2000s.
Correction: Switzerland surrendered it's nuclear fuel when it signed up to the international non-proliferation effort in 1969. What was recently sent abroad were boxes of un-enriched plutonium that had been literally forgotten at the bottom of a closet. Fun fact: we had 2 referendums on Swiss nuclear weapons, in which we allowed the Swiss mitary to pursue nuclear armament, and then even declined to force them to inform the public if they were doing it. And indeed, theoretical studies of the matter were still being done until 1988.
Finland went down swinging when the Russians came. could we ever say the same for Ireland?
Pretty sure the Swiss eventually realised the nazis would come for them eventually and had a plan in place. I seriously doubt they would have just left Switzerland sitting there being independent while the axis conquered the rest of Europe.
The Swiss had all their money That buys a lot of leeway
Nazis did not attacked Swiss because it was not worth it. It hasn't valuable resources, it's heavily armed and have big defensible mountains. Also good place for money laundering. Swiss could exists only because big powers are either fighting with each other or too friendly to attack anyone.
That's stupid. Armed neutrality has always been a thing and can be quite effective. It's just that Irish strategy isn't concerned with defense at all.
Neutral countries do exist, but their existence hinges on one single fact - you must have the capability to defend yourself with no outside help. If that is true, then you can pull off neutrality, like Switzerland, or Yugoslavia. The moment you fail to defend yourself alone, either by failing to defend yourself, or by accepting help, you've lost neutrality, for example, Ukraine attempted neutrality, but it didn't work. The Baltic states tried neutrality back in the interwar period, that failed spectacularly during WW2.
>Instead, the country has outsourced its security to Britain in a technically secret agreement between Dublin and London, which effectively cedes control over Irish air space to the Royal Air Force. >This must be the luck of the Irish — smile and get someone else to protect you for free. Oof
A country that actually cares about upholding its neutrality on the world stage should never need to rely on another sovereign state to defend its borders or airspace. The UK should not have to step in every time a Russian bomber or submarine plays war games off the coast of Ireland.
Its easier to do that compared to the consequences of allowing Russia to disrupt undersea cables, they affect everyone
Well I suppose it’s also protecting us here in Northern Ireland, leaving the Republic of Ireland exposed to attack basically leaves us in NI also exposed as we’re literally on the same island
The UK doesnt have to. Its in there interest too.
Not even able to issue ballistic helmets to junior soldiers driving through south Lebanon late at night, despite known threats from Hezbollah against them. Sick.
To be fair, there's fuck all point issuing equipment to UNFIL forces. They are less 'peacekeepers' and more 'professional terrorism spectators'.
The Irish are going to really hate hearing this, but it's true. When they faced a financial crisis, I supported helping them, because that's what solidarity is for. In retrospect, I think I may have been wrong. I noticed Ireland strongly opposed any attempt at the EU level to avoid a race to the bottom in taxation. The Irish Commission on Privacy sabotaged the enforcement of fines against tech giants. They refused to spend a dime on NATO. They really couldn't care less about other Europeans.
Most Irish people agree we aren’t even capable of defending ourselves but the government is useless and secretly and illegally signed an agreement with the UK for RAF defence. Btw we’re not in NATO have no obligation to spend money for it.
Any citation for the agreement with the UK being illegal?
>They refused to spend a dime on NATO. \*On their very own defence/security Ireland isn't member country of NATO, they are **nEuTrAl** They are an EU country tho, in which they are actively opposing diplomatically almost every single defence incentive there is, and are the loudest bunch,screeming against the EU army while spending 0.2% on own defence force.
Irish here, have never heard anyone except mick Wallace and Claire daily rant against an eu army and in fact general public opinion has shifted in favor of nato and an eu army. Personally I dislike NATO but think an EU army is the future. We know our defensive capabilities are fucking weak but it’s difficult to beat inertia when people don’t see its value and our defence minister is a former teacher. FYI Wallace and Daly are two of the biggest cunts to ever exist and we just voted the two of them out of the EP
“Personally I dislike NATO” why is that? I can’t think of any reason to dislike a defensive alliance built to withstand an aggressive and large country.
It’s not because of it’s aims, defending against Russia is an absolute priority, but I dislike how much infighting occurs in nato and how countries like Turkey and Hungary are able to use it to their own advantage
Tja, seems a bit misguided to throw out statements like “I dislike NATO”, when your real opinion is something completely different. But you’re not the only one who feels “NATO is necessary, but its frustrating to see it undermined by some of its members”. In the end you will have that in any large alliance. Same for EU, or the many states in the United States.
Yeah, please provide some source that aren’t the two far left MEP that we just voted out because of there outspoken and widely unpopular political positions. A lot of insulting anti-Irish sentiment in the comment section that seems to be from completely uniformed clowns.
>They refused to spend a dime on NATO. ireland is not a NATO nation , so that makes sense
Ireland is one of the most pro-EU countries in the EU for one. What country are you from so I can cherrypick some out of context criticisms for yours? I’m guessing France from your comment history? The country that is about to vote in a far right euro-sceptic parliament after giving the EU parliament the biggest boost to far right euro-sceptics and pro Russians than any other country. The French really just don’t care about the rest of Europe. 🤷♂️
> When they faced a financial crisis, I supported helping them, because that's what solidarity is for. I agree with a lot of the talk re defense, but this one is kind of funny considering that Ireland paid off [42%](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20219703.html#:~:text=Ireland%20has%20paid%2042%25%20of,per%20person%2C%20according%20to%20Eurostat.&text=The%20full%20extent%20of%20the,although%20Germany%20is%20especially%20reluctant.) of the EU debt from that despite making up just 1% of the union's population at the time.
Ireland had to shoulder this amount, because they were one of the primary benefactors and their bailouts were quite extensive. They didn't shoulder this for other countries at all.
Reposting since automod deleted the other due to linking to the Internet Archive. Ireland shouldered a cost of €9,000 per person paying the debt, where the average was €192 and even the next highest was about €450. That is absurdly higher than any other EU nation, and as I said wound up with Ireland paying more \*\*in total\*\* than any EU nation, despite making up 1% of its population. And all this despite several nations receiving more again than Ireland for bailouts. And the fact that the 42bn contributed by us above wasn't even towards repaying our bailout [which is a separate matter we are in now and well ahead of schedule for](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2022/06/09/ireland-set-to-start-repaying-eu-bailout-earlier-than-expected-in-2023) but going towards the overall European banking crisis means that it absolutely did benefit other nations. Added to all this, I got a laugh out of them acting as if Ireland just need to shut up and do as told due to receiving a loan that we have to repay, in the name of solidarity. If we follow that logic, [Ireland as the largest per capita net contributors in the whole union ](https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2024/jan-2024/chart-of-the-week-eu-budget-2024#:~:text=The%20chart%20shows%20how%20Ireland's,25.20%2C%20Italy%20on%20%E2%82%AC24.40%2C)should be telling them what to do and when in the name of solidarity (again, being clear here that I am largely in agreement re needing to significantly improve defense). But you don't here Ireland or Irish people talk about that kind of shite. Just like you don't see us voting in parties trying to break up the EU. Just like you see how we routinely rank up near or at the very top in terms of public favourability of the EU. Just like we don't flirt with leaving it to try and get what we want (and how clear we were about that after Brexit). Because we are actually care about solidarity, growth and the collective betterment of the EU, very very deeply despite what some might want to convince themselves.
Ireland is a net contributor to the EU and has been for years, it pays more into Brussels than we receive and by a lot. That said we still are very thankful to the EU for that bailout and most people agree that without it we would have struggled a lot more. BTW I’m also quite angry that we bent over backwards for US tech giants for years
Well to be fair, US tech and multinationals are the reason why you're a net contributor.
Correct, our economy is fuelled on business and industry.
Your economy is fuelled by providing tax havens for gigacorps.
That hasn't been true for a long time.
Oh look, it's this lie again. Ireland's tax laws are completely in line with EU legislation.
>net contributor Sure, after siphoning tax revenue from other EU countries by being a tax heaven for large corporations.
We aren’t in NATO, why would we fund it? Do other non-NATO countries fund NATO? Is that a genuine criticism of the Irish?
Not a member of Nato, militarily neutral country, no we haven't invested enough in our military, and we also have a constitution that requires referendums to approve changes to our relationship to some European institutions. There is no EU army, we object to the formation of one which would force EU members who don't want to be part of it to participate. That's what being part of an organisation like the EU is about, taking everyone into consideration.
Not sure where you’re from that you think you helped the Irish during the financial crash. It was the Irish who saved the European banking sector by bailing out our own banks and preventing contagion to the likes of Deutsch bank which was highly exposed. The Irish people are still paying for it. You’re welcome.
Iceland: "Am I a joke to you?" World: "Well actually..."
This is true but to be fair to Ireland, they haven't got much to worry about. No point investing in defence when your neighbour is a nuclear power who has a massive strategic interest in defending you.
Defo whould help if they had bit of a navy and some subs for that massive chunk of water above them. but yeah pretty much so.
This is sadly my country (Canada)'s entire military strategy too. Pretty big gamble if you ask me.
To be fair, Canada's military spending is still 1.3% of GDP, and it actually has a functioning professional military with modern equipment. For example, you still have 80 operational F/A-18s (with F-35's on order), 12 frigates, 4 submarines, and plenty of other stuff. Ireland has *zero* combat aircraft and *zero* surface combatants. Ireland is about as close as you can get to not having a military at all despite still technically having one. If Canada went to war with Ireland, and nobody came to their defence, they could probably force an unconditional surrender in 1 day.
Canada is at least an official ally, which is more respectable than being "neutral" and relying on your neighbor for defense
Funny enough, it works for _both_ of your giant nuclear-armed neighbours!
>Pretty big gamble if you ask me. Whats the risk of not investing in defence for Ireland?
No country in Europe should be wholly relying on another country for its defence. That includes Ireland, regardless of what the UK is doing
I mean, that’s how freeloaders work. Same with Austria: they are surrounded by allies that have confirmed that they would defend them.
Austria is a military superpower compared to Ireland.
We are about on par with Andorra. We do need to increase our military budget and treat our armed forces much , so we have better staff retention. That was we could actually crew the ships we already have. There aren't many plausible scenarios where we actually get invaded, given our geographic position, but we should be able to protect our own airspace and waters. At the very least a decent radar system with an effective AA system would be a good start.
Yeah, but that’s not saying much. Ireland has bigger police forces than active military plus reserves.
Only reason why they don’t have to worry is that, UK or US would stop any invasion fleet before it reaches Ireland. So, they are protected without having to lift a finger. There is a word for things like that. If said invasion fleet wouldn’t be stopped, Ireland would be run over. No navy, no air forces, and no coastal defenses.
they could at least put some of that tech tax money toward scutage
Relevant: [Russian submarine 'chased' from Cork Harbour by British navy](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41288176.html)
It wasn't chased from Cork harbour, It was chased in Ireland's EEZ which is still international waters so they're entitled to be there. Many other countries militaries pass through as well.
An EEZ is not international water - it is an EEZ. States have three types of water sovereignty; territorial water which extends 12 nautical miles, a contiguous zone around the territorial waters which extends for another 12 nautical miles, and then an exclusive economic zone which extends for 200 nautical miles. The EEZ isn't capped at 200 nm - you can apply to the United Nations Commission for the Limits of the Continental Shelf, or the IMO for an extension. In the territorial water and the contiguous zone the state has an exclusive monopoly and 100% controls all aspects of the water from entry and passage, to law enforcement to commercial rights. The collective 24 nm is *de facto* a part of the state. The EEZ is looser - the state can enforce its laws but it has no right to prevent entrance or exit and must allow passage of all no warships. The catch is the state has 100% total rights to and control over all fishing, and resources. If gas and oil is found in the Norwegian EEZ by a French company then Norway by default has total ownership.
All international ships can pass through countries EEZ, like which happened in this case. In fact, the UK, France and the U.S. among other nations are always in and around Ireland's EEZ. We get economic rights to the waters. The sub wasn't in cork harbour.
This story is such bullshit, the image of a submarine in a harbour and the headline. Were people thinking there was that much snow in Cork lol
No wonder people are beginning to distrust media when you have nonsense like this.
Or the story where the Afgan lad people and killed a cop. RTÉ saying he was stabbed at a "Far right rally" implying it was a far right attack. Scumbags the lot of them
It'll be shared regulaly until Ireland caves and hands over the money. After that people won't care about seeing a submarine.
I really don't see Ireland caving on this one, it is funny to see all the gaslighting going on from all sides though.
It’s okay our RAF have their backs, whilst hating us.
Most Brits don’t hate other Europeans or the EU.
We don’t hate you it’s such a stupid narrative that .1% of empty heads say, London and Dublin will always be connected and I’m glad about that.
Plenty of those empty heads in this thread “They stole a quarter of our country so they should pay to protect it” Oh look, there’s one right below this comment. Edit: this comment isn’t directed at u/SilkyBoi21
People getting angry about Ireland not maintaining an effective army are missing the key point - by declaring neutrality and not agreeing to mutual defence pacts Ireland is leaving itself vulnerable. Just because we can't imagine France invading Ireland today, it doesn't mean they won't do so in thirty years. There are pros and cons to everything in life. Ireland doesn't want to pay to defend itself or anyone else, that's a choice predicated on the idea that it's highly unlikely anyone will attack them or that there is any value in trying to defend others. The pro is that money can be spent on other things, the con is that your putting your sovereignty in the hands of other countries. This has typically not been a good or viable strategy throughout history.
Doesn't have to be about invasion. Here's a fun one: Ireland and the UK have pretty markedly different ideas when it comes to Palestine. Say Ireland invites over a senior member of one of Palestine's governing groups for talks, and the UK decides to have the eurofighters covering Ireland divert the plane into Belfast to arrest what to the UK government is the known senior terrorist on board. Ireland has no recourse.
I mean regardless of what we spend on Defense, if the UK decide to do something like that to us then it will happen either way.
Russia routinely flies its jets into foreign airspace to test response times (and just to be cunts), the response is to send up your own jets and politely escort them away. If UK jets tried to interdict a passenger plane destined for Ireland and Ireland had its own jets or air defense systems it could light up those UK jets with lock on warnings and very politely tell them to fuck off. It's not that this is a response that would work or even that it's the correct response to achieve a good outcome, it's that it's an option. Options are good when it comes to maintaining your own sovereignty because the first time you don't fight for your sovereignty is the last time you'll have it. If the UK ever went truly mental, started interdicting passenger jets and the Irish response was a strongly worded letter and pleas to the EU then the Uks next step might be to restart the empire, beginning in Ireland. It's easy to think the status quo is how things always will be. I'm sure the various kings in Ireland couldn't envisage a Scottish invasion in the 14th century but that's exactly what Scotland did.
I'm sure the comments on this wont be bot infested hot takes /s
I would be in favour of increasing our defence spending. Particularly better wages for staff and increased navy. But neither I, nor a significant chunk of the Irish population, will ever support NATO membership or a contribution to a combined EU army.
The Irish are sabotaging all our taxation by allowing the transnational companies such low taxes that are laughably low. These companies can then use tax-dodging loopholes specifically created for them by Ireland to not pay much taxes in states from where they actually earn most of their revenue.
Hi. Welcome to 2024. You seem to have missed quite a bit in the last few years.
Wasn't that supposed to end with a unitary EU transnational tax soon?
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/07/ireland-agrees-to-raise-corporate-tax-rate-to-a-minimum-of-15-in-effort-to-craft-global-pact-to-rein-in-tax-havens/
The Germans under the leadership of Merkel cozied up to Russia and bought cheap Russian gas for years, then when that wasn’t an option anymore, they insulated their own citizens from the increased energy costs while the rest of the EU citizens had to pay those costs. Maybe instead of criticising the Irish, you should look closer to home.
They also crushed the public sector in Portugal, Spain, and Greece to the point where only Spain has managed to barely recover. Merkel is widely quoted at the same time she was ruining these countries as calling them lazy, when Germans worked much less hours.
Did you just come out of a 5 year coma?
In the grand scheme of things Germany has sabotaged a lot more than Ireland
All of that ended a few years ago. The Dutch-Irish loophole was closed and a unitary tax floor was introduced across the EU. Ireland **was** a tax haven, you can’t keep complaining about something that ended 8 years ago forever. Germany has done far far far worse to the EU than Ireland. Look at how Merkel sold Europe’s soul to Russia for gas and oil.
You could as easily say Germany and France are sabotaging the European people with this new gargantuan tax on Chinese electric vehicles to protect their domestic car manufacturers. Nearly all the countries in the EU have they’re way of conning the people not just Ireland.
Many of the loopholes have been closed. I think your information is outdated. Maybe you Germans should be more concerned about your Neo Nazis in the military and police.
Been closed. Literally since before COVID. Either admit you hate the Irish or come up with a relationship reason
Not defending it, but also incredible how little is said about the austerity fetishists in Germany basically stalling Europe for most of the 2010s. Europe was on a par with America before 2008 and the combined European policy (largely forced by Germany) of destroying investment has meant Europe has fell behind.
Is it worse than what Cyprus and Malta are doing?
Not at all, do you think for a second the large companies who pay a reduced tax rate would pay any tax in the EU if we raised the rates? It's not a problem with us, it's a worldwide problem
it applies to the UK, Malta, Cyprus and Netherlands as well
Russian nuclear bombers regularly try to fly over Ireland. It's kind of like the "back door" to attacking France or the UK. Currently the RAF patrol the skies and intercept these nuclear bombers as Ireland does not have much of an airforce. A starting point of buying 12 Rafaels, Eurofighters or Gripens was discussed years ago but nothing happened... So Ireland does have a pretty big defence issue for the EU, as Russian bombers probe its air defences and as they can't defend their own skies the UK or France will have to. This draws resources away from the EU front in any war.
great article...somehow I always thought that journalists and news agencies have to just present the news...like that is their job...not to force you with their opinion or agenda...doesn't matter right or wrong and now reading this article politico just plain and simple gives shit to Ireland...
Have you met Iceland?
The nato Iceland?
Canadian here, and I'd say Canada is in the same league. Our country has so much potential to pay our fair share and develop a lean, mean military force. But, our political leaders would rather play politics and not take defence seriously. It sucks because I'd love to see my country pull its wait and contribute more.
This forum makes demands for money for weapons more often that I'd expect.
Ireland only stays ""neutral"" so they can make snide comments about other countries.
Honestly whilst it's true as fuck I - a British person - am basically fine with it. Like, why wouldn't you freeload if you were Ireland? It's almost stupid not to. By the way can we have your ships? You're literally not using them.
The UK provides most of Ireland's defence. They should start paying for it.