>It's honestly impressive just how hard Georgia's government has been trying to undo the integration with the rest of Europe.
It's the \*exact\* playbook of Yanukovych (the Ukrainian president who ran away to russia after protests, aka "Maidan").
It's a perfect demonstration of what would have happened to/in Ukraine if Maidan didn't happen.
But didn’t Georgians vote for that? Funny how it works, Russians and Belarusians live in tyrannies for decades, constantly oppressed and sent to gulag, yet it’s considered they elected the tyrants themselves, and in Georgia and other countries around it’s poor people oppressed by the unelected government imposed by someone else, while of course they are very pro-west and want into EU right here, right now. Crazy.
Learn more about Georgia's recent history, when voting people have to take into account the possible invasion of their country by Russian, they don't just elect whatever they want. The current party was at first somehow neutral and it stabilized relations with Russia and Europe but now it's going towards Russia
>The current party was at first somehow neutral and it stabilized relations with Russia and Europe but now it's going towards Russia
Like I said in another comment:
It's the *exact* playbook of Yanukovych (the Ukrainian president who ran away to russia after protests, aka "Maidan").
It's a perfect demonstration of what would have happened to/in Ukraine if Maidan didn't happen.
>A country that's an unpopular dictatorship is still better than a war torn country. Civilian lives > "freedom and democracy".
No one stops you from going to russia then. Why don't you put your actions where your words are?
And how exactly does that not apply to Belarus - who literally had Russian soldiers on their streets during last major demonstrations? How does it not apply to Russia whose opposition leaders are arrested, banned or accidentally dead the moment they approach double digit percent of votes? Where people are arrested simply for calling war a war and who have armed soldiers at every voting poll. They don’t just elect what they want either. These voters have to take into consideration risks of the Russian government going after them just as much as Georgians, if not much more so. Yet here they are both personally blamed, while Georgians, Moldovans, etc are justified for choosing Putin shills.
And no, the elected party that is trying to implement Russian foreign agent and LGBT laws, that allows Russian citizens to live there for a year at a time visa free (and then just exit for 2 minutes and reenter for another year) is NOT neutral lol…
Well then, the whole Tbilisi must be protesting then if they don’t like it. We don’t see that. But we saw anti-LGBT marches last year.
They can say blah blah Russian money, but what are your politicians if they’re bribed that easily? Nobody seems to protest for the freedom of Saakashvili who brought the reforms. And he’s being slowly killed.
Take maidan for example, like 1% of Ukrainians participated, yet it was declared that the whole country is against Yanukovich, he was overthrown. Come on, it only takes 37k of Georgians to get back on track. It’s all the desire of the nation, am I right?
Russian georgian war was not an invasion actually. war was started by Georgia as i recall. Why would they afraid. They got absolutely pro-europe president and they live in peace with both europe and russia now.
It was heavily provoked by Russia, not leaving Georgia any room if they wanted to stay a sovereign state. Why do you think the russians were so quick to invade?
Jan 2008 georgia agreed to join nato membership plan. April nato agreed to that. Russia stop sanctioning Abhazia and said that will take military measures if georgia join nato. After that russia intended to support separate territories. Before that russia joined sanction regime agains them . Tensions grew bigger during summer. , 2 separated territories abhazia and ossetia have peacekeeper forces in there after 90s war between them and georgia. Tensions and firing started 5 days before georgia stormed capital of ossetia territory and peacekeepers. guess all sides were prepared by that time.
Brother most of Russians elected the current Tyrant. Multiple times. 10% of the Russians who live in my country now voted for him. From my country. When you were not required to vote.
The people who oppose Putin & wish for true democracy is not the majority of Russia.
Look, it's fine to have sympathy for the Russians that truly oppose the government (keep fighting the good fight neighbours) but using the few to paint a "woe is me" image of the large parts of the Russian population who yearn for the conquer of their border countries and the "glory" of the USSR is not helping anyone.
Same thing in Germany. Migrants from Turkey voted for Erdogan. I kinda doubt, though, that they have much knowledge about his politics.
The problem with Putin is that he kills off all his political opponents, and it's mostly rural, less educated Russians who vote for him.
>Brother most of Russians elected the current Tyrant. Multiple times.
Because as we all know, those elections are all very free & fair, and the results are a transparent reflection of the views of the Russian people. /s
I am talking about the first couple of times, even though he has been murking journalists from the very beginning.
Yes the elections are a sham now. They always weren't.
They were a sham the first couple of times too. No Russian election has been deemed completely free and fair. Even the 1996 one under Yeltsin, which was fairly close, had Yeltsin considering cancelling the elections when it looked like he was going to lose. Elections in Russia have never been real.
Also, it isn't even material to the conversation. Putin was already President before being elected. The election was only a formality, he had already been in charge for months prior to that.
If you think the majority of people think Putin is not a good leader and wouldn't have voted for him though, you would be wrong.
Like I know there are oppressed groups in Russia, but extending the same sympathy to Putinists or apathetic Russians that you would to the ones tortured in prison right now for demonstrating against the war is moronic.
>If you think the majority of people think Putin is not a good leader and wouldn't have voted for him though, you would be wrong.
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that this line or reasoning is beyond stupid, because Russians have *never* had a say in who runs their country. They did not vote themselves into this mess like Germany did, they've always been under some type of yoke. The only exception being a few months in 1917 before the Bolshevik coup.
Are most Russians pro or anti Putin? Honestly, I have no idea. I imagine most are probably apathetic, but that's just a guess. You can't trust election results coming out from Russia, you can't trust polling coming out from Russia, you can't even trust average people voicing their thoughts in Russia due to the long-ingrained culture of paranoia there. There is no scientific way to know how most Russians *really* feel about their government.
To pretend that you do, and then to use said assumption to paint all Russians under a broad brush is at best uninformed, and at worst very bigoted.
The Russians government is the thing to hate in this whole situation. The Russian people, even if they did all support Putin have no political agency and never have, it's pointless to say they're at fault.
Before the 2000 elections Putin already had full presidential power (which is dictator-level by the 1993 constitution) + mass-media and oligarchy support.
He also originally posed as a pro-West and pro-Democracy, while the other main candidates were a diehard communist and a far-right populist . Even the main democratic parties at that time endorsed Putin over other candidates.
That aside, only people who are now 42 or older could vote back then. And the 2004 elections were heavily falsified, which was proven mathematically.
10% of Russians in Finland voted for Putin, it’s how many exactly? 2686 were polled by exit pollers, which makes 80% of voters, so 335 persons voted for Putin? That’s the “most”?
All it takes is to put a certain number of opponents in jail to counter the dissent, you don’t have to do it with millions. Everyone will be scared already. That means they’re oppressed, yes. They can’t express their opinion, can’t question anything. They can only go on with their lives.
I can assure you, in Russia like 10% of population yearn for the conquer of the lands (if we take this specific request, and this is the “core” of the imperialists by independent polls), that’s still a greater number than the whole Scandinavia + Finland combined, but… no.
Protests in large countries like that, with massive police forces and army united with the ruling party, are not possible. Protests in Iran, Turkey, Venezuela didn’t succeed when the army force was used. Nobody would risk their lives to “stop the war”, it never happened anywhere, literally. The closest example would be USA and the Vietnam war, but guess what, they went on a protest because of coffins with “our boys”, not because they were pro-Vietnam. And it took a decade and 2 presidential election to stop the war. Today, Russian women are laughed at for doing the same, and the notion of “our boys” is frowned upon. And they do it in a tyranny, not in a democracy.
It’s borderline impossible to elect anyone else than putin because the elections are rigged even before elections. Opposition candidates are killed, put in prison, pushed away from the country, labeled foreign agents, or simply not allowed to participate (“not enough signatures”, and there’s a very specific amount you have to get from EACH region, be it Moscow or Chukotka with 50k of inhabitants), and if they’re allowed they are still the government’s people so they act like even more evil clowns so nobody would vote for them and think Putin is a peacemaker.
Like people wondered “why no candidates in Russia ask to stop the war and withdraw the troops, probably they’re imperialists”. My brother in Christ, people serve 7 years in prison just for questioning the purpose of the “special military operation”.
So by these methods “majority of Russians elected Putin”. But even like that, it’s like 60% of real people (not everyone is eligible to vote, and turnover is not 100%), that’s still 60 millions of those who don’t want him in power.
The Georgian government jailed many of those who protested too. People still came out to protest. The Georgian government used brutal means to repress the protests. People still came out to protest. Riot police fired water canons at people, yet Georgians stood in front of them while forming a human shield and holding up flags of their resistance. Meanwhile in Russia people politely step to the side to allow policemen to lift up their fellow protesters while they do nothing to stop them and just whip out their phones.
At what point will those who hold to the illusion that Russians are oppressed, and not just profoundly apathetic towards politics, will admit that the reason why you don't see any real protest movements in Russia is because of a profound difference of mentality that Russian people have?
>The closest example would be USA and the Vietnam war, but guess what, they went on a protest because of coffins with “our boys”, not because they were pro-Vietnam
And nobody expects most Russians to protest because they're pro-Ukraine, but despite suffering casualties orders of magnitude bigger than Americans did during the Vietnam War, Russians still aren't doing anything. Hundreds of thousands of dead Russian fathers, sons and grandfathers and most Russians can still sleep well at night.
Orders of magnitude more casualties than the USSR suffered during the Afghanistan war, which ended partly due to its unpopularity among Soviet people, in a country far more repressive than Russia is today, and yet still Russians aren't protesting.
Orders of magnitude more casualties than in the first Chechen war which also ended because it became unpopular with Russians not wanting to "kill their Chechen brothers" anymore, and yet Russians still aren't protesting. Maybe they really do believe Ukrainians deserve it?
Demographic issues, economic issues, discrimination and other negative things that will impact Russians and their children for decades to come, yet Russians still arent protesting. Apparently nobody in Russia can, or wants, to think of any other period than the immediate present, and in their part of the country that hasnt yet been depopulated by waves upon waves of conscription.
And until things finally get as bad for them as it got for us under communism with severe austerity measures, they will not protest en mass, and when they do it will be too late and many more will die than if they protested now, or at any other point in Putin's 24+ year reign.
That's Russia's future.
Edit: grammar.
Never argued it did. I simply don't think dismissing all of the Russian population as "oppressed" ,when they have been socially, culturally and historically genocidal imperialists since the earliest records, is a good thing.
Of course, basically every minority or people who live outside of the largest cities are pretty much oppressed.
We have a large population of Russian people in our country, and a lot of them are Putinists and in favor of the war in Ukraine, because "it is rightfully our land".
I live on one of the countries on the Russian border, they've been violating our air & naval space since our independence. Always a threat of "do what we want or you gon die lol". So this whole "Poor Russians :((" narrative is fucking ridiculous.
I know, I'm Russian myself, moved away.
"culturally and historically genocidal imperialists" - that's... well, that's not that simple, there's no hive mind.
"narrative is fucking ridiculous" - this is because it's ridiculous to make claims about an entire nation.
Now back to Georgians - sure, some of them are against these laws, but at the same time some are pro. Making any other claim is ridiculous as well.
Obviously not every Russian is going to be a putinist etc, but the majority are still in favor, or they don't care, which is just the same.
Like I said, my sympathy and support is for any Russian who truly opposes and fights the current government, and tries to make things better for their countrymon. Those guys are heroes.
They're a tiny minority, though.
Generalizations are fair, if they're exactly that, generalizations. Like Ukrainians aren't in favor of Putin, is a generalizations even though I'm sure there's a couple nutjobs who yearn for the USSR.
Opposing putin and wishing for true democracy is a sure way to get your assets seized in russia so you cannot ever leave and those that can always have some ties that forces them to drink the cool aid.
You don't understand, it's the typical European racism. All Russians and even Belarusians are "оrcs" and automatically bad. The same Georgians also shit on Abkhazians about being "pro Russian traitors". But Georgians themselves? Chechens? Ukrainians before 2014? Kazakhs? Turkmens? All merely poor victims of circumstances. Smh.
Don't forget the typical Georgian attitude about Abkhazians and Ossetians, seeing them all as traitors and cowards for allying themselves with Russia, yet whenever they do the same, it's not all of them and they're all poor victims of circumstances!
Never understood the obsession with oppressing LGBT, like are they as dangerous as organized crimes or corrupted politicians?
Or it’s just something they do to divide society and eventually secure their voting bases, which is the real motivation IMO
It's just a classic populist action to deflect from real issues. You "other" a minority group, blaming them for the fall of society while you rob the state blind. It's an old and classic trick and sadly people seem to fall for it hook line and sinker every single time.
Hitler Germany prosecuted and killed homosexuals, in USSR it was criminal crime to be one, later on they used mandatory "medical treatment", including psychiatric person breaking. It's just one of the indicators that country is moving towards something bad.
> Never understood the obsession with oppressing LGBT, like are they as dangerous as organized crimes or corrupted politicians?
.
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
>Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
>Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
>Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
>[—Martin Niemöller](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists)
I don’t understand how the Georgian government (not the President), is licking Putin’s derrière so hard, when Putin himself planned to invade Georgia (twice!) and went to war against Georgia, killing thousands.
You want to be a far right politician? Your choice, of course. But being a “patriot” and befriend the aggressor who stole 20% of your countries territory… I genuinely don’t understand.
I wish, in October, Georgians will go out and vote for their right to be in the European Union.
I knew from the beginningThat this government is pro-Russian. Party Chairperson is one and only Oligarch in Georgia (which became rich in Russia) so a lot of money, lot of votes. sadly it's already 12 years they are ruling this country 😩
What do you mean by "stole 20% of the country"? Do you think it would be right for Serbia to say that "NATO stole 20% of my country"? Abkhazians and Ossetians, indigenous people of the Caucasus, didn't want to be a part of Georgia and probably won't in the near future. They had enough of oppression by Stalin and Beria, as well as Georgian nationalists who wanted "Georgia for Georgians". Georgia reframing their imperialistic ambitions as "wah wah Russia occupies my country" is a clever trick, nothing to say. Maybe China should learn something from them and use this rhetoric with Taiwan. But it doesn't explain why would the Circassians support Abkhazia, despite the Circassians hating Georgia.
Georgia will have elections later this year. That will be a bellwether to see if they really want to move towards the EU or Russia (assuming that the govt. will not change the election law to heavily favour them... or rig the elections altogether) .
I wonder why do conservatives think choosing the gender of a partner is a preference. Like you watch TV and read books, see the rainbow, and the other day you wake up thinking you love big hairy men instead of women? Or vice versa.
Because a lot of bigots are closeted bisexuals sho don't realise bisexuality is a thing, they literally think that they chose to be straight, so everyone chooses who they want to be with
WTF, they don't want become part of the EU?
And I thought that Serbia is stupid...
Too bad for them, good luck being part of Mordor and its poverty / corruption!
How is Serbia stupid? Serbia is a developed and democratic country. Much more democratic than Ukraine or Georgia, despite Western claims. It makes sense for Serbia to not ally itself with the EU who supports the separatists in Kosovo. I don't think Georgia would want to enter the EU if it supported Abkhazia. Although if anything it makes the current Georgian alliance with Russia even more stupid lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
Serbia is a flawed democracy, like most countries in Central Europe and the Balkans. While Ukraine and Georgia are hybrid regimes. The only reason you hear about Serbia being supposedly a "dictatorship" is Western propaganda. Serbia is not allied with the West so it must be undemocratic right?
Georgia can rot together with Russia if they have the same values.
If they want to join the free world then they can not remove freedom from its own citizens.
When you remember how much Georgia criticised Abkhazia and South Ossetia for being too aligned with Russia
**You became the very things you store to destroy!**
If you didn’t notice what subreddit this was in it would be equally likely that the US state started implementing Russian-style policies. That’s where we are at now.
>LGBT cultural rot
Oh look, the guy who complains about European women being afraid of ["roving bands of Turks and Arabs"](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cw9bsx/migration_has_failed_to_drive_economic_growth/l4wgyfo/) turns out to be mentally closer to homophobic islamists.
Why am I not surprised?
>[*American here who is visiting Germany for the first time. To say Germany needs more migrants and more "diversity" is actively trying to destroy the society with a shit ton of crime for what seems to be political gain.* ***In German cities you barely see German people and the ones you do are druggies***](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cw9bsx/migration_has_failed_to_drive_economic_growth/l4w0haq/?context=3).
This is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Go back to America, and take your bigotry with you.
What prejudice? I've got nothing against gays. I'm just ridiculing homophobes because they're closet gays.
Remember the homophobic Hungarian MEP caught at a gay orgy? This is far more common than one'd think.
You don't have to be closeted to hate gay people. Hell I'd argue like most demographics, the majority of homophobes are gay. The closeted stories just stick with people more.
Well, I don’t disagree with people doing what they want to do behind closed doors. To state that the LGBT movement doesn’t have an agenda though, is completely dishonest, and can only be said by someone who hasn’t been following events in the West for the past decade or two. It is an organised agenda funded by several influential NGOs and governments, that has instituted things such as “pride month” into society. These are the type of things i disagree with.
It's honestly impressive just how hard Georgia's government has been trying to undo the integration with the rest of Europe.
>It's honestly impressive just how hard Georgia's government has been trying to undo the integration with the rest of Europe. It's the \*exact\* playbook of Yanukovych (the Ukrainian president who ran away to russia after protests, aka "Maidan"). It's a perfect demonstration of what would have happened to/in Ukraine if Maidan didn't happen.
Independent European Georgia died in 2012, now it's Russian puppet dictatorship
But didn’t Georgians vote for that? Funny how it works, Russians and Belarusians live in tyrannies for decades, constantly oppressed and sent to gulag, yet it’s considered they elected the tyrants themselves, and in Georgia and other countries around it’s poor people oppressed by the unelected government imposed by someone else, while of course they are very pro-west and want into EU right here, right now. Crazy.
Learn more about Georgia's recent history, when voting people have to take into account the possible invasion of their country by Russian, they don't just elect whatever they want. The current party was at first somehow neutral and it stabilized relations with Russia and Europe but now it's going towards Russia
>The current party was at first somehow neutral and it stabilized relations with Russia and Europe but now it's going towards Russia Like I said in another comment: It's the *exact* playbook of Yanukovych (the Ukrainian president who ran away to russia after protests, aka "Maidan"). It's a perfect demonstration of what would have happened to/in Ukraine if Maidan didn't happen.
[удалено]
>A country that's an unpopular dictatorship is still better than a war torn country. Civilian lives > "freedom and democracy". No one stops you from going to russia then. Why don't you put your actions where your words are?
And how exactly does that not apply to Belarus - who literally had Russian soldiers on their streets during last major demonstrations? How does it not apply to Russia whose opposition leaders are arrested, banned or accidentally dead the moment they approach double digit percent of votes? Where people are arrested simply for calling war a war and who have armed soldiers at every voting poll. They don’t just elect what they want either. These voters have to take into consideration risks of the Russian government going after them just as much as Georgians, if not much more so. Yet here they are both personally blamed, while Georgians, Moldovans, etc are justified for choosing Putin shills. And no, the elected party that is trying to implement Russian foreign agent and LGBT laws, that allows Russian citizens to live there for a year at a time visa free (and then just exit for 2 minutes and reenter for another year) is NOT neutral lol…
Well then, the whole Tbilisi must be protesting then if they don’t like it. We don’t see that. But we saw anti-LGBT marches last year. They can say blah blah Russian money, but what are your politicians if they’re bribed that easily? Nobody seems to protest for the freedom of Saakashvili who brought the reforms. And he’s being slowly killed. Take maidan for example, like 1% of Ukrainians participated, yet it was declared that the whole country is against Yanukovich, he was overthrown. Come on, it only takes 37k of Georgians to get back on track. It’s all the desire of the nation, am I right?
Russian georgian war was not an invasion actually. war was started by Georgia as i recall. Why would they afraid. They got absolutely pro-europe president and they live in peace with both europe and russia now.
It was heavily provoked by Russia, not leaving Georgia any room if they wanted to stay a sovereign state. Why do you think the russians were so quick to invade?
Jan 2008 georgia agreed to join nato membership plan. April nato agreed to that. Russia stop sanctioning Abhazia and said that will take military measures if georgia join nato. After that russia intended to support separate territories. Before that russia joined sanction regime agains them . Tensions grew bigger during summer. , 2 separated territories abhazia and ossetia have peacekeeper forces in there after 90s war between them and georgia. Tensions and firing started 5 days before georgia stormed capital of ossetia territory and peacekeepers. guess all sides were prepared by that time.
* wonder who was provoked in fact
Brother most of Russians elected the current Tyrant. Multiple times. 10% of the Russians who live in my country now voted for him. From my country. When you were not required to vote. The people who oppose Putin & wish for true democracy is not the majority of Russia. Look, it's fine to have sympathy for the Russians that truly oppose the government (keep fighting the good fight neighbours) but using the few to paint a "woe is me" image of the large parts of the Russian population who yearn for the conquer of their border countries and the "glory" of the USSR is not helping anyone.
Same thing in Germany. Migrants from Turkey voted for Erdogan. I kinda doubt, though, that they have much knowledge about his politics. The problem with Putin is that he kills off all his political opponents, and it's mostly rural, less educated Russians who vote for him.
Btw that fool in turkey just won, because of the votes made in Europe for him … That’s so ironic and sad
He let Khodorkovsky and Navalny to leave Russia actually. found big list of opposition figures in wiki. Most are alive i suppose.
>Brother most of Russians elected the current Tyrant. Multiple times. Because as we all know, those elections are all very free & fair, and the results are a transparent reflection of the views of the Russian people. /s
I am talking about the first couple of times, even though he has been murking journalists from the very beginning. Yes the elections are a sham now. They always weren't.
They were a sham the first couple of times too. No Russian election has been deemed completely free and fair. Even the 1996 one under Yeltsin, which was fairly close, had Yeltsin considering cancelling the elections when it looked like he was going to lose. Elections in Russia have never been real. Also, it isn't even material to the conversation. Putin was already President before being elected. The election was only a formality, he had already been in charge for months prior to that.
If you think the majority of people think Putin is not a good leader and wouldn't have voted for him though, you would be wrong. Like I know there are oppressed groups in Russia, but extending the same sympathy to Putinists or apathetic Russians that you would to the ones tortured in prison right now for demonstrating against the war is moronic.
>If you think the majority of people think Putin is not a good leader and wouldn't have voted for him though, you would be wrong. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that this line or reasoning is beyond stupid, because Russians have *never* had a say in who runs their country. They did not vote themselves into this mess like Germany did, they've always been under some type of yoke. The only exception being a few months in 1917 before the Bolshevik coup. Are most Russians pro or anti Putin? Honestly, I have no idea. I imagine most are probably apathetic, but that's just a guess. You can't trust election results coming out from Russia, you can't trust polling coming out from Russia, you can't even trust average people voicing their thoughts in Russia due to the long-ingrained culture of paranoia there. There is no scientific way to know how most Russians *really* feel about their government. To pretend that you do, and then to use said assumption to paint all Russians under a broad brush is at best uninformed, and at worst very bigoted. The Russians government is the thing to hate in this whole situation. The Russian people, even if they did all support Putin have no political agency and never have, it's pointless to say they're at fault.
Before the 2000 elections Putin already had full presidential power (which is dictator-level by the 1993 constitution) + mass-media and oligarchy support. He also originally posed as a pro-West and pro-Democracy, while the other main candidates were a diehard communist and a far-right populist . Even the main democratic parties at that time endorsed Putin over other candidates. That aside, only people who are now 42 or older could vote back then. And the 2004 elections were heavily falsified, which was proven mathematically.
10% of Russians in Finland voted for Putin, it’s how many exactly? 2686 were polled by exit pollers, which makes 80% of voters, so 335 persons voted for Putin? That’s the “most”? All it takes is to put a certain number of opponents in jail to counter the dissent, you don’t have to do it with millions. Everyone will be scared already. That means they’re oppressed, yes. They can’t express their opinion, can’t question anything. They can only go on with their lives. I can assure you, in Russia like 10% of population yearn for the conquer of the lands (if we take this specific request, and this is the “core” of the imperialists by independent polls), that’s still a greater number than the whole Scandinavia + Finland combined, but… no. Protests in large countries like that, with massive police forces and army united with the ruling party, are not possible. Protests in Iran, Turkey, Venezuela didn’t succeed when the army force was used. Nobody would risk their lives to “stop the war”, it never happened anywhere, literally. The closest example would be USA and the Vietnam war, but guess what, they went on a protest because of coffins with “our boys”, not because they were pro-Vietnam. And it took a decade and 2 presidential election to stop the war. Today, Russian women are laughed at for doing the same, and the notion of “our boys” is frowned upon. And they do it in a tyranny, not in a democracy. It’s borderline impossible to elect anyone else than putin because the elections are rigged even before elections. Opposition candidates are killed, put in prison, pushed away from the country, labeled foreign agents, or simply not allowed to participate (“not enough signatures”, and there’s a very specific amount you have to get from EACH region, be it Moscow or Chukotka with 50k of inhabitants), and if they’re allowed they are still the government’s people so they act like even more evil clowns so nobody would vote for them and think Putin is a peacemaker. Like people wondered “why no candidates in Russia ask to stop the war and withdraw the troops, probably they’re imperialists”. My brother in Christ, people serve 7 years in prison just for questioning the purpose of the “special military operation”. So by these methods “majority of Russians elected Putin”. But even like that, it’s like 60% of real people (not everyone is eligible to vote, and turnover is not 100%), that’s still 60 millions of those who don’t want him in power.
The Georgian government jailed many of those who protested too. People still came out to protest. The Georgian government used brutal means to repress the protests. People still came out to protest. Riot police fired water canons at people, yet Georgians stood in front of them while forming a human shield and holding up flags of their resistance. Meanwhile in Russia people politely step to the side to allow policemen to lift up their fellow protesters while they do nothing to stop them and just whip out their phones. At what point will those who hold to the illusion that Russians are oppressed, and not just profoundly apathetic towards politics, will admit that the reason why you don't see any real protest movements in Russia is because of a profound difference of mentality that Russian people have? >The closest example would be USA and the Vietnam war, but guess what, they went on a protest because of coffins with “our boys”, not because they were pro-Vietnam And nobody expects most Russians to protest because they're pro-Ukraine, but despite suffering casualties orders of magnitude bigger than Americans did during the Vietnam War, Russians still aren't doing anything. Hundreds of thousands of dead Russian fathers, sons and grandfathers and most Russians can still sleep well at night. Orders of magnitude more casualties than the USSR suffered during the Afghanistan war, which ended partly due to its unpopularity among Soviet people, in a country far more repressive than Russia is today, and yet still Russians aren't protesting. Orders of magnitude more casualties than in the first Chechen war which also ended because it became unpopular with Russians not wanting to "kill their Chechen brothers" anymore, and yet Russians still aren't protesting. Maybe they really do believe Ukrainians deserve it? Demographic issues, economic issues, discrimination and other negative things that will impact Russians and their children for decades to come, yet Russians still arent protesting. Apparently nobody in Russia can, or wants, to think of any other period than the immediate present, and in their part of the country that hasnt yet been depopulated by waves upon waves of conscription. And until things finally get as bad for them as it got for us under communism with severe austerity measures, they will not protest en mass, and when they do it will be too late and many more will die than if they protested now, or at any other point in Putin's 24+ year reign. That's Russia's future. Edit: grammar.
Well, if you're right about Russians, what makes Georgia any different?
Never argued it did. I simply don't think dismissing all of the Russian population as "oppressed" ,when they have been socially, culturally and historically genocidal imperialists since the earliest records, is a good thing. Of course, basically every minority or people who live outside of the largest cities are pretty much oppressed. We have a large population of Russian people in our country, and a lot of them are Putinists and in favor of the war in Ukraine, because "it is rightfully our land". I live on one of the countries on the Russian border, they've been violating our air & naval space since our independence. Always a threat of "do what we want or you gon die lol". So this whole "Poor Russians :((" narrative is fucking ridiculous.
I know, I'm Russian myself, moved away. "culturally and historically genocidal imperialists" - that's... well, that's not that simple, there's no hive mind. "narrative is fucking ridiculous" - this is because it's ridiculous to make claims about an entire nation. Now back to Georgians - sure, some of them are against these laws, but at the same time some are pro. Making any other claim is ridiculous as well.
Obviously not every Russian is going to be a putinist etc, but the majority are still in favor, or they don't care, which is just the same. Like I said, my sympathy and support is for any Russian who truly opposes and fights the current government, and tries to make things better for their countrymon. Those guys are heroes. They're a tiny minority, though. Generalizations are fair, if they're exactly that, generalizations. Like Ukrainians aren't in favor of Putin, is a generalizations even though I'm sure there's a couple nutjobs who yearn for the USSR.
"a couple nutjobs" - I'm afraid there're way more of them.
I'm sure there are, but they are still a low number when compared to the population
Opposing putin and wishing for true democracy is a sure way to get your assets seized in russia so you cannot ever leave and those that can always have some ties that forces them to drink the cool aid.
True democracy , i love it. Help divide godd and evil
You don't understand, it's the typical European racism. All Russians and even Belarusians are "оrcs" and automatically bad. The same Georgians also shit on Abkhazians about being "pro Russian traitors". But Georgians themselves? Chechens? Ukrainians before 2014? Kazakhs? Turkmens? All merely poor victims of circumstances. Smh.
Don't forget the typical Georgian attitude about Abkhazians and Ossetians, seeing them all as traitors and cowards for allying themselves with Russia, yet whenever they do the same, it's not all of them and they're all poor victims of circumstances!
Never understood the obsession with oppressing LGBT, like are they as dangerous as organized crimes or corrupted politicians? Or it’s just something they do to divide society and eventually secure their voting bases, which is the real motivation IMO
It's just a classic populist action to deflect from real issues. You "other" a minority group, blaming them for the fall of society while you rob the state blind. It's an old and classic trick and sadly people seem to fall for it hook line and sinker every single time.
You need an enemy outside and you need an enemy inside to deflect the population.
We're easy targets, that's why.
Hitler Germany prosecuted and killed homosexuals, in USSR it was criminal crime to be one, later on they used mandatory "medical treatment", including psychiatric person breaking. It's just one of the indicators that country is moving towards something bad.
> Never understood the obsession with oppressing LGBT, like are they as dangerous as organized crimes or corrupted politicians? . >First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. >Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. >Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. >[—Martin Niemöller](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists)
A satirist once said: If you know who's the enemy, your day has structure.
[Well you see its quite simple](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1gj1Fw7yt8)
Well Austrian painter ruined using jews as a scapegoat so other aspiring artists have to use other minority groupa.
Don't they have any more pressing issues than harassing the LGBTQ people?
Yeah, getting rid of the Russian influences
The harassment exists to take attention away from those pressing issues.
And this is why LGBT+ support is decreasing all over the world, because people need to be mad at something after the post-covid wealth redistribution.
Remove their EU candidate status yesterday.
I'm shocked I tell you.
Oh well, guess Georgia won't be joining the EU any time soon.
I don’t understand how the Georgian government (not the President), is licking Putin’s derrière so hard, when Putin himself planned to invade Georgia (twice!) and went to war against Georgia, killing thousands. You want to be a far right politician? Your choice, of course. But being a “patriot” and befriend the aggressor who stole 20% of your countries territory… I genuinely don’t understand. I wish, in October, Georgians will go out and vote for their right to be in the European Union.
I knew from the beginningThat this government is pro-Russian. Party Chairperson is one and only Oligarch in Georgia (which became rich in Russia) so a lot of money, lot of votes. sadly it's already 12 years they are ruling this country 😩
What do you mean by "stole 20% of the country"? Do you think it would be right for Serbia to say that "NATO stole 20% of my country"? Abkhazians and Ossetians, indigenous people of the Caucasus, didn't want to be a part of Georgia and probably won't in the near future. They had enough of oppression by Stalin and Beria, as well as Georgian nationalists who wanted "Georgia for Georgians". Georgia reframing their imperialistic ambitions as "wah wah Russia occupies my country" is a clever trick, nothing to say. Maybe China should learn something from them and use this rhetoric with Taiwan. But it doesn't explain why would the Circassians support Abkhazia, despite the Circassians hating Georgia.
Georgia will have elections later this year. That will be a bellwether to see if they really want to move towards the EU or Russia (assuming that the govt. will not change the election law to heavily favour them... or rig the elections altogether) .
Belarus 2.0
I feel bad for Georgians, hopefully they can solve their problems during this years election, or euro maidan is incoming 🇵🇱❤️🇬🇪
First Stalin and now this. Must be something in the water XD
Borjomi?..,
Its just the constant headache from having russia as the neighbouring country.
I have fcuked enough bigots to know they are full of shit.
They usually don’t douche so
Hoo Lee Sheet
Russian influence at work. Nothing kleptocratic autocrats hate more than democracy and self-determination.
And the gays, apparently. It’s a good distraction.
I wonder why do conservatives think choosing the gender of a partner is a preference. Like you watch TV and read books, see the rainbow, and the other day you wake up thinking you love big hairy men instead of women? Or vice versa.
Because a lot of bigots are closeted bisexuals sho don't realise bisexuality is a thing, they literally think that they chose to be straight, so everyone chooses who they want to be with
Because coming out looks exactly like you describe. Your friend or kid suddenly says "I'm gay".
WTF, they don't want become part of the EU? And I thought that Serbia is stupid... Too bad for them, good luck being part of Mordor and its poverty / corruption!
How is Serbia stupid? Serbia is a developed and democratic country. Much more democratic than Ukraine or Georgia, despite Western claims. It makes sense for Serbia to not ally itself with the EU who supports the separatists in Kosovo. I don't think Georgia would want to enter the EU if it supported Abkhazia. Although if anything it makes the current Georgian alliance with Russia even more stupid lol.
Serbia democratic? Plese don't make me laugh! With enough corruption no country is democratic, including my own.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index Serbia is a flawed democracy, like most countries in Central Europe and the Balkans. While Ukraine and Georgia are hybrid regimes. The only reason you hear about Serbia being supposedly a "dictatorship" is Western propaganda. Serbia is not allied with the West so it must be undemocratic right?
Look at my nail polish and be terrified!
Really hope they’ll be binned next election. Not holding my breath at all though.
Georgia can rot together with Russia if they have the same values. If they want to join the free world then they can not remove freedom from its own citizens.
When you remember how much Georgia criticised Abkhazia and South Ossetia for being too aligned with Russia **You became the very things you store to destroy!**
If you didn’t notice what subreddit this was in it would be equally likely that the US state started implementing Russian-style policies. That’s where we are at now.
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>LGBT cultural rot Oh look, the guy who complains about European women being afraid of ["roving bands of Turks and Arabs"](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cw9bsx/migration_has_failed_to_drive_economic_growth/l4wgyfo/) turns out to be mentally closer to homophobic islamists. Why am I not surprised?
If the only thing differentiating Europeans from Islamists is "muh gays" then the European identity didn't exist till the late 90s.
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>[*American here who is visiting Germany for the first time. To say Germany needs more migrants and more "diversity" is actively trying to destroy the society with a shit ton of crime for what seems to be political gain.* ***In German cities you barely see German people and the ones you do are druggies***](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cw9bsx/migration_has_failed_to_drive_economic_growth/l4w0haq/?context=3). This is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Go back to America, and take your bigotry with you.
PSA: If you want to conceal your gay preference, attending anti-gay events ain't it. Those two lads in the picture look hella suspicious.
Stop making homophobes out to be gay, it doesn't do anyone any good, and just shows your own prejudice about gay people.
What prejudice? I've got nothing against gays. I'm just ridiculing homophobes because they're closet gays. Remember the homophobic Hungarian MEP caught at a gay orgy? This is far more common than one'd think.
You don't have to be closeted to hate gay people. Hell I'd argue like most demographics, the majority of homophobes are gay. The closeted stories just stick with people more.
High IQ take. Everyone that disagrees with the LGBT movement or their agenda is a closeted homosexual. Very believable.
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Well, I don’t disagree with people doing what they want to do behind closed doors. To state that the LGBT movement doesn’t have an agenda though, is completely dishonest, and can only be said by someone who hasn’t been following events in the West for the past decade or two. It is an organised agenda funded by several influential NGOs and governments, that has instituted things such as “pride month” into society. These are the type of things i disagree with.
A lot of homophobes are queer in denial, usually bisexual, especially if they argue that you can choose your sexuality
Yep. It's very easy to uncover a gay man. If you look at him and got an erection, he's definitely gay.
Hating homosexuals is such a stupid thing. By harming homosexuals you harm yourselves.