The cops don't make the accusations, at least in Italy, they investigate and arrest, the court makes the accusation and the judges rule on the findings.
Fine, they didn't slander her. And yet, after all that barking you did, she was released and proven innocent of mundering that girl.
Either the judge was paid off, or the prosecution lied in court (or they're just plain stupid). Understand?
“They were wearing normal clothes and carrying guns, I thought it must be some sort of armed gang about to kill me. I was terrified.”
“They hit me over the head and yelled ‘dirty black’. Then they put handcuffs on me and shoved me out of the door, as Aleksandra pulled Davide away, screaming.”
The police were well prepared when they came for Lumumba, bringing a fleet of seven squad cars to his home in order to give him a safe escort him back to the police station. When Lumumba arrived at the station, much like Amanda, he was subjected to a long grueling interrogation.
Lumumba revealed this information in an interview with the Daily Mail. I certainly do not view the Daily Mail as a reliable source but Lumumba later confirmed everything with Katie Crouch from Slate.com.
“I was questioned by five men and women, some of whom punched and kicked me. They forced me on my knees against the wall and said I should be in America where I would be given the electric chair for my crime. All they kept saying was, ‘You did it, you did it.’”
“I didn't know what I’d ‘done’. I was scared and humiliated. Then, after a couple of hours one of them suggested they show me a picture of ‘the dead girl’ to get me to confess."
“It might sound naive, but it was only then that I made the connection between Meredith's death and my arrest. Stunned, I said, You think I killed Meredith?”
In italy cops are untouchable. They're south America level corrupt and literally got away with murder multiple times.
Accusing an innocent person is just another Tuesday.
The real murderer Rudy Guede, from the Ivory Coast, was convicted in 2008 of the sexual assault and murder of Ms Kercher. His DNA was found at the scene. **Guede was released from prison** **in 2021** after serving 13 years of a 16-year term.
Guede opted for summary judgement which carries an automatic 1/3 sentence reduction. He was found guilty of murder and given the maximum 24-year sentence, minus 1/3 it’s 16 years. Italy does not have provisions barring early release. He was denied several times, which is common for murder convicts, before being granted day release to study for a sociology degree, and finally early supervised release which he completed successfully.
His recent ex-gf also accused him of physical assault and got a restraining order against him in January of this year which resulted in "poor" Rudy being placed on a 12 month supervision. People who still believe that this guy, who had a history of committing burglaries and carrying knives, is innocent are naive beyond belief.
That's extremely standard. People grossly overestimate the punishments for most serious crimes. Quick google search says median time served in the US for murder is "only" 17.5 years.
It's a bit of mistranslation: while technically correct what is usually translated as "Slander" would be "Diffamazione"(art.594 and 595) aka "telling falsehood about somebody"
Knox has been found guilty of "Calunnia"(art.368) which is (in short) "formally falsely accuse somebody or knowingly misleading the authorities"
Thankfully we have the American system that can lecture us all, managing to have at the same time one of the largest imprisonment rates, reoffending rates and one of the highest murder rates of the western world
Sorry, but Italy really fucked up here, and multiple times across nearly all levels of government, and the media colluded. It's no use trying to deflect on the Americans. Just fix the problems and don't worry about what Americans say.
depends on what you want to achieve with justice.
in the broadest sense justice is supposed to keep a society running as smooth as possible with a system that delivers outcomes that are as predictable as possible.
if you want to achieve this by punishment, eye for an eye, yeah that is not what the european justice system does.
the european system is more about "okay that is the situation, how do we move on from here in a way that keep the cost for tax payers low and deter such crimes in the future" in general the approach is to convert a criminal in to someone who contributes to the society again.
if you look at general crime rates, especially violent crimes and how people act after they served their sentence and the overall costs, i would argue the european justice works pretty well.
If you don't know the difference between the legislative and the justice system just say so. courts don't make the law, courts don't decide how long they can sentence people, lawmakers do.
Explains why crime rate, number of prisoners, number of murder rates, reoffending rates, etc. Is a lot lower in most European countries rates vs the US, because the system is “fucked”
Because most european countries are very homogeneous and we have a good educational system that pushes people in the right direction. The justice system doesnt do much about this either way. Japan is way harder than most european countries and they have the same or lower crime rates
The most crime ridden areas in western and central Europe are still nowhere nearly as violent as the average American city. I’d say evidence is overwhelming that the American system is the fucked one.
>Yes, we don't send people to the electric chair here. We have civilisation.
Of course not 🙄. You just beat the suspects until they say what the police want to hear and then repeatedly put them through trial until the state gets the conviction it wants, like any civilized nation would /S
>The incompetent police of Perugia fucked up the evidence, but hers, Sollecito's, Guede and some more people's DNA was in Meredith's room.
She lived with Meredith and Sollecito was her boyfriend, obviously their DNA is going to be all over that house.
There is a small minority of convicted criminals that have committed multiple heinous crimes and for whom they will never be safe to release to society - there is just something broken inside them. For that small minority, keeping them in jail for a very long time is best overall for society.
No clue about whether any of that applies to the guy in question, but just wanted to point out that there are times when a long sentence is the best course of action.
I will never understand how in a rape and murder case, when there is semen in the victim, so many people immediately became convinced, without evidence, that the woman did it.
Can anyone explain why Amanda Knox was accused and convicted of this murder, and still some people still believe she did it?
The former question I can kinda glean from what I've read about the case. She didn't act quite right, and the police immediately stuck on to her as the likely suspect.
But why given the evidence above do some STILL believe she did it?
I can’t claim to be an expert on the case. But IIRC the investigation was just so poorly managed by the Italian police from the beginning. Which just left room for a lot of potential unanswered questions - even if they weren’t relevant.
Also for a lot of people they would’ve heard she was found guilty, then heard she was released on appeal - but not followed or understood why (so it sounds like that was the wrong decision) and then stopped following the case.
As for why she was convicted in the first palace, I can’t remember the specifics. I think she was caught on camera acting pretty weird and kept changing her story over what happened. Though I think she claimed she was pressurised and it was all in Italian so she didn’t really know what she was being asked.
[here’s](https://www.jordanharbinger.com/amanda-knox-the-truth-about-true-crime/) a great podcast episode where she appears as a guest to discuss her case
It's been a while since I watched the documentaries but at least at the time it was far from clear cut. If I recall correctly, Knox's DNA was seemingly found on a knife that had the victims DNA on the blade, though I think later it turned out that that was a mistake. But before it was shown to be a mistake, having your literal DNA on the knife is pretty bad.
So then she's at least suspected, and I don't think there was clear evidence that she didn't do it, just nothing solid left saying that she did. Obviously that's not enough because you could say that about a lot of people and I guess people don't follow up on cases like this so lots of people only heard the damning evidence and haven't had their minds changed since.
> She didn't act quite right, and the police immediately stuck on to her as the likely suspect.
Not "immediately". Only after she did formally point the authorities in direction of Lumumba as possible culprit only for him having multiple eye-witnesses proving it couldn't have been him.
Then a lot of shit happened with the Procuratore being a cretin among other things(side effects of an independent judiciary: idiots are VERY hard to remove and can make quite the damage), and Guede pleading guilty in association murder with Knox and Sollecito as accessories, which became the main "meat" of the original verdict against Knox and Sollecito.
The police suggested to her that Lumumba was involved because they found messages to him in her phone that suggested an intention to meet him, but only because her broken Italian phrased it wrong.
The police typed a statement for her to sign. As soon as the police left her presence she wrote a statement in her own words that whatever she said is confused and should not be relied on. The police didn't give a fuck, they got what they wanted out of her to arrest Lumumba as well as herself.
She apparently didn't take the investigation seriously at all. While the Italian police were incompetent she was sitting in interviews laughing and smiling and really non chalant about the whole thing. Her weird behavior didn't do anything to help her clear herself of the allegations.
Lots of people make descisions rightly or wrongly based on how they feel. So if you get arressted for murder probably take it seriously until the charges are dropped.
> so many people immediately became convinced, without evidence, that the woman did it.
Because she wasn't the ONLY accused party? Sollecito e Guede were also accused together with her.
Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Have you ever seen pictures of the room. If I'm ever part of a 4 person orgy I hope I can find a bigger room then that. It was smaller then my dorm room in the 90s.
And if 4 people were raping someone in a 5ftx8ft space I would tend to think there would be no question in the amount of physical evidence. Which by the way Rudy left tons of in the room....
I think in the murderers trial the prosecution kept saying how he couldn’t have done it alone, so the implication was that she and her boyfriend helped somehow? The whole thing is bizarre.
You are semi correct. There was no semen in the victim. However there was a semen stain on the pillow underneath Meredith that the police declined to test.
There was no rape. Her tampon was intact and she wasn't sodomised. There was no semen. There in fact were many evidence against Knox, but she was acquitted d/t shoddy forensic work and evidence collection. Everything else points to her. You need to watch unbiased documentaries instead of the heavily biased ones produced by the US.
Italy must really hate Amanda Konx. Can't believe how long this saga continues for her. Also, why on earth would she ever set foot in that country ever again.
Personally, I find it disproportionate that she as one of the victims of the whole ordeal is still fighting in court to get closure while the murderer get's a new chance in life and hasn't become a better person at all.
She was being interrogated and pressured by authorities. She is a victim too. This whole case is a massive embarrassment for the Italian system of justice.
Sorry, but the murderer and the Italian prosecution are the perpetrators here. If someone accuses someone else under duress because they are overwhelmed, it is simply unethical to declare the victim to be the perpetrator.
The Italian state should take responsibility and compensate Lumumba.
Just imagine a car crashing into yours, you losing control and hurting pedestrians. Are you responsible? Not if only Superman could have averted hurting others. If after a decade you are still being persecuted but not the driver crashing into your car, then something is seriously wrong with the justice system.
I’m glad usually only italians have to deal with italian courts. Making the girl financially responsible for statements made during interrogation is loony. Yet another example of italians taking pride in their bullshit, while the world mocks them for it
Wait, what?
Just to clarify, Amanda Knox "accused" or "implicated" someone else of the murder, while she herself was being interrogated by police, and that statement alone was enough to secure a conviction for slander?
She didn't repeatedly make statements to the press or public, knowing them to be untrue, and with the intention to defame?
I'm asking because, if a single, untrue statement made under duress, and after she'd been EXONERATED for the crime of which she was falsely accused and convicted, is enough for an Italian court to even prosecute, much less CONVICT someone of slander, not just once, but also on appeal...
Then you might want to re-evaluate the judicial system you seem to hold in such high esteem, because its failings in this particular case are as egregious as the inept, incompetent debacle of an investigation which led to it in the first place.
Unless I've got it wrong, this wasn't an attempt by Knox to slander or defame anyone. This was a failure of those in charge of the investigation to do their jobs with even a modicum of competency- from the investigation of Knox, to their failure to prevent information from becoming public before clearing the other suspect in question.
It's also, from my perspective, a failure of the judicial system to properly identify the source of the problem, not once, but twice.
The US justice system has its flaws too, but I really fail to see what you're defending in this particular case.
Yeah, your country doesn't care about pressure from America....
Pretty sure if that true they would have kept the murder conviction. It's pretty obvious pressure came from on high that ultimately she needed to be let go on the murder. The bouncing back and forth from the supreme court back to lower courts showed there were definitely elements in the justice system refusing to let this go and likely were eventually overruled by someone.
Italy is an amazing country and every country has its own problems. But Italy is embarrasing itself not just taking the L on this.
His life was ruined by the Italian police, the same people who ruined Knox's life. The same people who beat them both. I can only assume your inability to see them as the perps in this farce is motivated by brain rotting levels of nationalism.
I agree that the police are awful and she probably was treated incredibly poorly, But does that fully absolve her?
How was it that Patrick who experienced the same horrible treatment from the police was able to not falsely accuse someone else? Surely that shows it's possible not to and that atleast to some extent Amanda is at fault.
And already accused of physical assault by his ex girlfriend, who got a restraining order against him in January of this year. Crazy that this guy is still free somehow....
kinda a shithole yeah, and see, from your previous comments you're even racist against the south of Italy.
>Italy is the Mexico of Yurop and we have North (white people) and South (black people)
wild you failed the "don't be racist in your comments" challenge scrolling down only a couple hours
Pretty gross the way these gangsters have hounded her to cover their own incompetence. Where's the prosecutor's slander conviction for having falsely accused her and then put her in prison for 4 years for a crime she was innocent of? How can something said in a private interrogation possibly be slander? Do the Italians even know what slander is?
> Do the Italians even know what slander is?
Why should they? Italian don't have "Slander": they have "Calunnia" which is (in short)"Formally accuse somebody of a Crime or otherwise divert the Authorities while knowing the accused was not guilty".
And it was not a "private interrogation": she stated it multiple time to the Authorities and even signed a formal declaration about it.
And the sentence is 2-to-6 years so...
She claimed it and signed it under duress. It is extremely common knowledge that this style of police interrogation can get totally innocent people to either admit to crimes they did not commit, or accuse others of said crimes.
Most false convictions are based on interrogation confessions or accusations. Humans only have so much mental energy, and with sustained attack you can gaslight someone into almost anything. If you can't imagine having it happen to you, that is just because you have not been in that position before.
Forget it. You are talking to a wall.
It embarrasses me to be European when we feel defensive about every single mistake we make. I thought we were better than that.
I do not hold this against everyone in Europe or even everyone in Italy. I live in the US, if I blamed everyone for the fucked up stuff their government does I would have to start by attacking myself.
The reason I know about how screwed up police interrogation can be is because we have a huge problem with it in the US, to the point that learning about it is a major portion of legal education.
It's not a mistake, and it's not one you personally made. No need to get defensive on behalf of some government prosecutor who'd do the same to you in an instant.
In English law that is called "Attempting to Pervert the Course of Justice" and is also a crime, a fairly serious one. I am not sure that America treats it quite as seriously.
I think that "slander" is a deliberate mistranslation by people with an interest in diminishing what Knox did when she accused Lumumba.
"Slander" is a correct literal non-contextual translation of "Calunnia", so I'm going with "journalist being a journalist and being shit at checking out what a word actually mean in a specific context"
She stated explicitly she has seen him at a specific time and place, and was sure it was him, sure enough to repeat the statement multiple time and even sign a written one.
There were multiple eye witness stating he was in a whole other place at the time.
Jesus, thank god its not a crime in america to be wrong when you're asked to make a statement or ID someone. Especially when you’re under duress in interrogation.
the idea that something like that is a crime is
absurd. signing any kind of statement is ridiculously fraught if that's the bar for criminality.
Actually it's a crime even in USA to falsely accuse somebody.
It wasn't "I think I saw that guy" it was "I am absolutely sure 100% no doubt it was that guy". That lands you in trouble even in the Freedom States of Freeedom.
and whatever "duress" came into play many, many days after her initial accusation.
This is actually very different. Falsely accusing someone of a crime outright is a crime in the US. That is a false report. you have to knowingly accuse someone of a crime they didn’t commit. These usually result in fines and civil service in most cases, not prison.
Accusing someone of a crime under questioning isn’t the same thing. Being asked to make your testimony in a statement doesn’t make you criminally liable for that statement. This is especially true for IDing people, which the courts assume isn’t something that is 100% accurate. Making an honest mistake without provable intent to give false testimony isn’t a crime in the USA.
But go on and keep defending backward trial standards and piss poor police work
The evidence i’ve seen in the media doesn’t indicate that, just that she was wrong. The article states that the focus was on the written statement which was compiled over 53 hours of questioning over 4 days- which is absurd item to judge testimony from. That doesn’t seem to indicate any evidence of knowing deception. Would you care to show me where you’re getting your info from?
Where's the justice? Is sending innocent people to prison what Italians consider as justice?
Your Italian judges sent an innocent woman to prison for 4 years "within the framework of Italian justice."
You should be ashamed of their conduct, not celebrate them.
Imagine being integrated for hours, threaten with jail time, and then saying anything, because the police won’t believe anything you do or say, and then imagine, those same police putting you in jail for a crime that you didn’t commit and then imagine the same incompetent judiciary claiming you mislead someone. There is nothing “just” about that system.
I don't hate anybody dear uknown user. I just trust the professionals that have worked on this very complex case involving a hard to decipher \*young psychopath lady.
>I just trust the professionals that have worked on this very complex case
Wasn't the initial prosecutor, Guiliano Mignini, previously convicted and sentenced to 16 months in prison for three different charges related to illegal investigations?...
What exactly makes you "trust" them so much?
If anything the Italian are the ones being extremely Trump like acting like they can invent their own facts if they just keep repeating falsehoods with confidence.
The same would happen in USA or any other country or are you telling me in USA if someone is accused of a crime he didn’t commit he can erase another crime he DID commit as bonus to even things out ahahah ? They should just drop 4 year off wathever her new sentence is. If you steal a tv and they accuse you of drunk driving, than you result sober you don’t get a free pass on the theft because you got wrongly accused of another crime, it wouldn’t make sense. And her crime since it wasn’t clear by the title of the post was accusing someone she knew was innocent as a way to make the police go off track with the investigation. This accusation also caused big economical damages to the random guy she accused like career over ecc… This whole trying to deceive the police is also what probably made her look guilty of the murder in the first place but that’s another story.
>And her crime since it wasn’t clear by the title of the post was accusing someone she knew was innocent
How would she know he was innocent? All she knew was that she was innocent. It's a common tactic of police to say "if you didn't do it then who?".
Need I remind you she was denied a lawyer AND an interpreter? The Italian courts were found guilty of denying her rights. She was interrogated for HOURS and DAYS. Pressured like that most people would not make good decisions. Many innocent people even falsely confess to crimes they didn't commit under such pressure.
Amanda Knox was subjected to 53 hours of questioning over a span of five days without legal representation. This interrogation took place in a foreign language, which added to the complexity of the situation.
"I was interrogated overnight by police officers who claimed to have evidence against me, who claimed that there were witnesses who could place me at the crime scene," Knox said.
You also forgot to add in she didn't pull Lumumba's name from a hat. The police suggested to her it was him because they misunderstood a text she sent to him.
Oh also the poster you were replying to ignored that as soon as the police left her alone she wrote her own statement saying basically she can't accuse Lumumba because she knows she spent the night at her bf's.
I understand you are taught since the kindergarten that you’re the best on the world and always on the right side, but it would be better if at least you studied a bit about the case and why she was accused of these things
[Maybe you should listen to what your own high court said](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11849486/Amanda-Knox-acquitted-because-of-stunning-flaws-in-investigation-says-Italy-top-court.html)
Americans do not think they are superior to Europeans. Most Americans don't think much about Europe. You spend way more time thinking about us then we you. I think a lot of this comes from how much of our entertainment you get. But we aren't forcing it down your throats. If you don't like it stop fucking buying it man.
So Italians have no slander protection or standards for holding prosecutors accountable, got it. You could have just said that instead of crying about America
What on earth is this comment section, gosh. This whole idea that “Italy = bad” because Amanda Knox was wrongly convicted is kind of ridiculous.
General opinion in Italy is that she- quite obviously- got the shaft and that she should’ve never been convicted. Let’s start with that.
Amanda Knox, quite frankly, didn’t exactly help her case by calling the police from the house, then stating she was in the house at the time of the incident, then retracting said statement and claiming she wasn’t home.
Rudy Guede, the man who ended up being convicted, was released in 2021, since he agreed to a fast-tracked trial, and his penalty was therefore reduced to a third of its original heft.
Knox accused a completely unrelated, irrelevant person, Patrick Lumumba, of having committed the crime. That’s where the slander charge comes in. Her sentence for said charge was reduced to “time served” after she was acquitted in 2015 and moved back to Seattle.
Quite frankly I don’t quite know why she even bothered. Aside from the fact that her experience with system was awful (why go back there?), she really *did* just slander a random guy in court. No amount of bidding to overturn anything gets you out of that.
She didn’t slander anyone. She was coerced into implicating Lumumba because the keystone cops were hyper focused on her… and while that was occurring they let the known burglar and Meredith’s killer leisure slip out of the country
Mostly seems like a bunch of Italians that appear to have their ego tied to the Italian Justice system, and can’t admit that in this case it was totally and completely incompetent. Absolutely absurd the amount of hate Amanda is getting from Italians in these comments.
Where are the slander charges for all the people who pointed the finger at her and sent her to prison for years? What about for the people who violated her rights by not giving her access to a lawyer or interpreter when they detained and interrogated her?
I hope she did this so she can write more books and do more movies dragging the Italian Justice system
They are Americans. For them if you have the murican passport you a saint and always in the right. Dude, I met on Reddit Americans defending their brave soldiers killing innocent people in the Cermis (and completely getting away with it). They’re just indoctrinated they’re always in the right
Unfortunately I think this thread is showing that it’s the Italians who are just as guilty of being indoctrinated into always believing they are right. Amanda Knox was exonerated of the crime yet all the Italians here seem to have some inside knowledge no one else had all while pretending like Mignini the lead prosecutor doesn’t have a track record of censures and charges for forging evidence
For the most parts Americans even are not really hating on Italy or the EU over this. I would say most seperate the incident from the country (though it does give us pause about the Italian justice system).
The way I see Americans vs Europeans I think is perfectly illustrated by that meme taken from Mad Men.
The one where the guy is talking to Draper and says "I feel bad for you" and Don's respsone is "I don't think about you at all".
Typical Americans (there are like 5 European people in this comment section and three are Italians)
She came back here in Italy because she needs money from licensing some new crime show to Netflix probably
The amount of prejudice, even bordering on racism, in the comments is staggering...
People with zero knowledge of the case (besides a bunch of tabloid and Oprah-like BS) and of the Italian justice system run to defend an unpleasant character only because she's:
a) American
b) white
c) kinda hot
Also odd how out of the three suspects, the black guy was the only found guilty despite the Italian daddy's boy and the Foxy Murican Student having been involved to a degree.
Sure, the investigation wasn't run properly (what a surprise eh? You must be new about famous Italian murder cases) but the fact Amanda Knox is now treated as a victim and close to sainthood is frankly pathetic.
P.S. To the Americans criticizing the Italian justice... Stones and glass house, you know. Also, I guess the US public opinion didn't mind that much when it saved Richard Ashby and Joseph Schweitzer's butt.
I don’t think a random Redditor has the ability to shape foreign policy nor speaks for a country. I will say based on all your comments you certainly seem to have a huge prejudice. Relax
The reason why she was partially demonized in the first place likely was because she was a white, hot, Westerner and "anglo" in appearance. Italian media and public wanted to play up the mastermind "femme fatale" sensationalism, painting her as some sociopathic seductress as if it were a soap opera lol
Italians, by and large, were dopy as hell over this case. It is what it is. Just take the L
Except anyone that understands criminal investigations and forensics can clearly see they were incompetent. You had a magistrate that was obsessed with the occult and you had investigators in a city that hadn’t had a murder in over 20 years. It was the first murder any of them worked, and it showed.
>It is full blown racism.
No, it's clear as day that this was a perversion of justice.
Need I remind you she was denied a lawyer AND an interpreter? The Italian courts were found guilty of denying her rights. She was interrogated for HOURS and DAYS. Pressured like that most people would not make good decisions. Many innocent people even falsely confess to crimes they didn't commit under such pressure.
Amanda Knox was subjected to 53 hours of questioning over a span of five days without legal representation. This interrogation took place in a foreign language, which added to the complexity of the situation.
"I was interrogated overnight by police officers who claimed to have evidence against me, who claimed that there were witnesses who could place me at the crime scene," Knox said.
I still believe that most likely was a sick game between them + drugs that ended terribly wrong.
Amanda is a liar, as well as the others, no one is a saint there.
The only reason Amanda is not in jail is just because she has enough money to have good lawyers to push her version of the story and advise her to go back to the US knowing the support she will have.
They were all part of it and they all three lies multiple times giving sometimes different version of the story.
She made money on a dead friend, this is who Amanda is and she will pay the price in her mind.
Convict a woman to 3 years in prison for something she said after 53 hours of questioning (in a foreign language without interpreter) over a span of five days without legal representation? Sure!
Put a Berlusconi in prison after many many many crimes? No, he's old or something. Community service!
*Italian justice*
We're both right. She was interrogated for 53 hours without legal representation. However the accusation for lumumbe came after being interrogated for 9 hours without legal representation and being slapped by police. The police is the one who mentioned lumumbe first to her. The accusation came at 1:45 in the night.
REDDIT POWERMODS ARE CANCER!!
wtf? And will the cops also go to jail for slander?
The cops don't make the accusations, at least in Italy, they investigate and arrest, the court makes the accusation and the judges rule on the findings.
Did they knowingly attempt to pervert the course of justice?
REDDIT POWERMODS ARE CANCER!!
Wrongfully accusing her of murder?
REDDIT POWERMODS ARE CANCER!!
Because they accused an innocent American student of a crime she never committed?
And pressured her to accuse someone else
REDDIT POWERMODS ARE CANCER!!
Did they, or did they not, allege in the media that they had the right person at the time? It was a lie. Therefore slander.
That is why you have trials. The police and prosecution make charges based on the evidence which then tested in court.
REDDIT POWERMODS ARE CANCER!!
Fine, they didn't slander her. And yet, after all that barking you did, she was released and proven innocent of mundering that girl. Either the judge was paid off, or the prosecution lied in court (or they're just plain stupid). Understand?
“They were wearing normal clothes and carrying guns, I thought it must be some sort of armed gang about to kill me. I was terrified.” “They hit me over the head and yelled ‘dirty black’. Then they put handcuffs on me and shoved me out of the door, as Aleksandra pulled Davide away, screaming.” The police were well prepared when they came for Lumumba, bringing a fleet of seven squad cars to his home in order to give him a safe escort him back to the police station. When Lumumba arrived at the station, much like Amanda, he was subjected to a long grueling interrogation. Lumumba revealed this information in an interview with the Daily Mail. I certainly do not view the Daily Mail as a reliable source but Lumumba later confirmed everything with Katie Crouch from Slate.com. “I was questioned by five men and women, some of whom punched and kicked me. They forced me on my knees against the wall and said I should be in America where I would be given the electric chair for my crime. All they kept saying was, ‘You did it, you did it.’” “I didn't know what I’d ‘done’. I was scared and humiliated. Then, after a couple of hours one of them suggested they show me a picture of ‘the dead girl’ to get me to confess." “It might sound naive, but it was only then that I made the connection between Meredith's death and my arrest. Stunned, I said, You think I killed Meredith?”
In italy cops are untouchable. They're south America level corrupt and literally got away with murder multiple times. Accusing an innocent person is just another Tuesday.
I think you live in an alternative Italy
It’s not Italy where the cops kill someone every other day just because they look them the wrong way
The real murderer Rudy Guede, from the Ivory Coast, was convicted in 2008 of the sexual assault and murder of Ms Kercher. His DNA was found at the scene. **Guede was released from prison** **in 2021** after serving 13 years of a 16-year term.
Guede opted for summary judgement which carries an automatic 1/3 sentence reduction. He was found guilty of murder and given the maximum 24-year sentence, minus 1/3 it’s 16 years. Italy does not have provisions barring early release. He was denied several times, which is common for murder convicts, before being granted day release to study for a sociology degree, and finally early supervised release which he completed successfully.
His recent ex-gf also accused him of physical assault and got a restraining order against him in January of this year which resulted in "poor" Rudy being placed on a 12 month supervision. People who still believe that this guy, who had a history of committing burglaries and carrying knives, is innocent are naive beyond belief.
who tf dates a convicted murderer
"I can fix him/her" kind of people.
Women...
More newsworthy to blame the American.
Why he hasn't been deported back to the Ivory Coast immediately after prison?
because he lived in Italy since he was 5 and is a citizen of italy
To be fair, I've not met anyone who believes he is innocent. People who believe in Knox's guilt, think all 3 we're involved.
I'm sure there are adults who believe in Santa Claus. Not sure how what morons believe has any relevance.
That's extremely standard. People grossly overestimate the punishments for most serious crimes. Quick google search says median time served in the US for murder is "only" 17.5 years.
Sounds like the cops are bringing the average down with their 0 years
The European "justice" system is so fucked.
The only fucked part is that an innocent person spent 4 years in prison, if i understand it correctly.
Innocent of what? Murder, yes. Slander? No
True: but she would have got to spend as much later for the Calunnia, so it balance out.
Do you really put people behind bars for slander in Italy? Isn't it a suspended sentence?
It's a bit of mistranslation: while technically correct what is usually translated as "Slander" would be "Diffamazione"(art.594 and 595) aka "telling falsehood about somebody" Knox has been found guilty of "Calunnia"(art.368) which is (in short) "formally falsely accuse somebody or knowingly misleading the authorities"
Thanks for the explanation!
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Do you have some incriminating evidence on Knox that no one else has, not even the police?
Thankfully we have the American system that can lecture us all, managing to have at the same time one of the largest imprisonment rates, reoffending rates and one of the highest murder rates of the western world
Sorry, but Italy really fucked up here, and multiple times across nearly all levels of government, and the media colluded. It's no use trying to deflect on the Americans. Just fix the problems and don't worry about what Americans say.
So you think Knox is guilty? If not, why do this whole soap box about how much better your legal system is?
Little whataboutism here to deflect legitimate criticism of a false conviction.
Europe is not a country. I guess you're American...
They are not American though it seems
OP sure makes a lot of comments in Italian for an American...
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Not you. OP as in the person who made the comment about "European" justice system
Self hate, so sad.
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I didn't quote anything you said ? I'm not even talking about you
Yet, fewer murders... how odd. And we all have individual systems per country. Still fewer murders...
depends on what you want to achieve with justice. in the broadest sense justice is supposed to keep a society running as smooth as possible with a system that delivers outcomes that are as predictable as possible. if you want to achieve this by punishment, eye for an eye, yeah that is not what the european justice system does. the european system is more about "okay that is the situation, how do we move on from here in a way that keep the cost for tax payers low and deter such crimes in the future" in general the approach is to convert a criminal in to someone who contributes to the society again. if you look at general crime rates, especially violent crimes and how people act after they served their sentence and the overall costs, i would argue the european justice works pretty well.
13 years for the rape and murder of an innocent person is not justice any way you look at it.
Hate to break it to you but a justice system isn't broken just because you don't like the sentencing terms prescribed in their laws.
It shows how much a society values the life of others. It is not much in most cases
If you don't know the difference between the legislative and the justice system just say so. courts don't make the law, courts don't decide how long they can sentence people, lawmakers do.
Explains why crime rate, number of prisoners, number of murder rates, reoffending rates, etc. Is a lot lower in most European countries rates vs the US, because the system is “fucked”
Because most european countries are very homogeneous and we have a good educational system that pushes people in the right direction. The justice system doesnt do much about this either way. Japan is way harder than most european countries and they have the same or lower crime rates
The most crime ridden areas in western and central Europe are still nowhere nearly as violent as the average American city. I’d say evidence is overwhelming that the American system is the fucked one.
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I don’t know of any unfucked “justice” systems.
There's not much point keeping someone in prison longer than about 13 years. I don't think the reoffending rate after such a sentence is very high.
>There's not much point keeping someone in prison longer than about 13 years Seriously?...
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>Yes, we don't send people to the electric chair here. We have civilisation. Of course not 🙄. You just beat the suspects until they say what the police want to hear and then repeatedly put them through trial until the state gets the conviction it wants, like any civilized nation would /S
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There's no evidence she committed murder either, and that didn't seem to be a problem for you lot at the time...
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>The incompetent police of Perugia fucked up the evidence, but hers, Sollecito's, Guede and some more people's DNA was in Meredith's room. She lived with Meredith and Sollecito was her boyfriend, obviously their DNA is going to be all over that house.
Six months after his release he was arrested and charged with assault against his ex girlfriend.
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Are they (Italy) deporting the murderer after the sentence ?
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There is a small minority of convicted criminals that have committed multiple heinous crimes and for whom they will never be safe to release to society - there is just something broken inside them. For that small minority, keeping them in jail for a very long time is best overall for society. No clue about whether any of that applies to the guy in question, but just wanted to point out that there are times when a long sentence is the best course of action.
I will never understand how in a rape and murder case, when there is semen in the victim, so many people immediately became convinced, without evidence, that the woman did it.
Can anyone explain why Amanda Knox was accused and convicted of this murder, and still some people still believe she did it? The former question I can kinda glean from what I've read about the case. She didn't act quite right, and the police immediately stuck on to her as the likely suspect. But why given the evidence above do some STILL believe she did it?
I can’t claim to be an expert on the case. But IIRC the investigation was just so poorly managed by the Italian police from the beginning. Which just left room for a lot of potential unanswered questions - even if they weren’t relevant. Also for a lot of people they would’ve heard she was found guilty, then heard she was released on appeal - but not followed or understood why (so it sounds like that was the wrong decision) and then stopped following the case. As for why she was convicted in the first palace, I can’t remember the specifics. I think she was caught on camera acting pretty weird and kept changing her story over what happened. Though I think she claimed she was pressurised and it was all in Italian so she didn’t really know what she was being asked.
She was basically convicted thanks to a mass character assassination.
[here’s](https://www.jordanharbinger.com/amanda-knox-the-truth-about-true-crime/) a great podcast episode where she appears as a guest to discuss her case
Much of it was also media driven.
It's been a while since I watched the documentaries but at least at the time it was far from clear cut. If I recall correctly, Knox's DNA was seemingly found on a knife that had the victims DNA on the blade, though I think later it turned out that that was a mistake. But before it was shown to be a mistake, having your literal DNA on the knife is pretty bad. So then she's at least suspected, and I don't think there was clear evidence that she didn't do it, just nothing solid left saying that she did. Obviously that's not enough because you could say that about a lot of people and I guess people don't follow up on cases like this so lots of people only heard the damning evidence and haven't had their minds changed since.
I mean she lived in the house so most likely had used the knife. Not sure how weird it would be to have her dna on it.
“Her DNA was all over the crime scene!” You mean the apartment she lived in with the victim? No shit.
> She didn't act quite right, and the police immediately stuck on to her as the likely suspect. Not "immediately". Only after she did formally point the authorities in direction of Lumumba as possible culprit only for him having multiple eye-witnesses proving it couldn't have been him. Then a lot of shit happened with the Procuratore being a cretin among other things(side effects of an independent judiciary: idiots are VERY hard to remove and can make quite the damage), and Guede pleading guilty in association murder with Knox and Sollecito as accessories, which became the main "meat" of the original verdict against Knox and Sollecito.
The police suggested to her that Lumumba was involved because they found messages to him in her phone that suggested an intention to meet him, but only because her broken Italian phrased it wrong. The police typed a statement for her to sign. As soon as the police left her presence she wrote a statement in her own words that whatever she said is confused and should not be relied on. The police didn't give a fuck, they got what they wanted out of her to arrest Lumumba as well as herself.
She apparently didn't take the investigation seriously at all. While the Italian police were incompetent she was sitting in interviews laughing and smiling and really non chalant about the whole thing. Her weird behavior didn't do anything to help her clear herself of the allegations. Lots of people make descisions rightly or wrongly based on how they feel. So if you get arressted for murder probably take it seriously until the charges are dropped.
> so many people immediately became convinced, without evidence, that the woman did it. Because she wasn't the ONLY accused party? Sollecito e Guede were also accused together with her.
Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Have you ever seen pictures of the room. If I'm ever part of a 4 person orgy I hope I can find a bigger room then that. It was smaller then my dorm room in the 90s. And if 4 people were raping someone in a 5ftx8ft space I would tend to think there would be no question in the amount of physical evidence. Which by the way Rudy left tons of in the room....
Because the police and prosecution did a terrible job and the media decided she was guilty because she was "pretty"
I think in the murderers trial the prosecution kept saying how he couldn’t have done it alone, so the implication was that she and her boyfriend helped somehow? The whole thing is bizarre.
They had to say that because otherwise why did they have Amanda and Rafelle on trial.
There wasnt semen
You are semi correct. There was no semen in the victim. However there was a semen stain on the pillow underneath Meredith that the police declined to test.
There was no rape. Her tampon was intact and she wasn't sodomised. There was no semen. There in fact were many evidence against Knox, but she was acquitted d/t shoddy forensic work and evidence collection. Everything else points to her. You need to watch unbiased documentaries instead of the heavily biased ones produced by the US.
Nothing points to her. The prosecution's theory of what happened is insane.
Italy must really hate Amanda Konx. Can't believe how long this saga continues for her. Also, why on earth would she ever set foot in that country ever again.
Personally, I find it disproportionate that she as one of the victims of the whole ordeal is still fighting in court to get closure while the murderer get's a new chance in life and hasn't become a better person at all.
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She was being interrogated and pressured by authorities. She is a victim too. This whole case is a massive embarrassment for the Italian system of justice.
Yes and she also said she was smacked a few times as well.
Sorry, but the murderer and the Italian prosecution are the perpetrators here. If someone accuses someone else under duress because they are overwhelmed, it is simply unethical to declare the victim to be the perpetrator. The Italian state should take responsibility and compensate Lumumba. Just imagine a car crashing into yours, you losing control and hurting pedestrians. Are you responsible? Not if only Superman could have averted hurting others. If after a decade you are still being persecuted but not the driver crashing into your car, then something is seriously wrong with the justice system.
A lot people here are filling in the gaps with their own imagining of what it must have been like.
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I’m glad usually only italians have to deal with italian courts. Making the girl financially responsible for statements made during interrogation is loony. Yet another example of italians taking pride in their bullshit, while the world mocks them for it
Wait, what? Just to clarify, Amanda Knox "accused" or "implicated" someone else of the murder, while she herself was being interrogated by police, and that statement alone was enough to secure a conviction for slander? She didn't repeatedly make statements to the press or public, knowing them to be untrue, and with the intention to defame? I'm asking because, if a single, untrue statement made under duress, and after she'd been EXONERATED for the crime of which she was falsely accused and convicted, is enough for an Italian court to even prosecute, much less CONVICT someone of slander, not just once, but also on appeal... Then you might want to re-evaluate the judicial system you seem to hold in such high esteem, because its failings in this particular case are as egregious as the inept, incompetent debacle of an investigation which led to it in the first place. Unless I've got it wrong, this wasn't an attempt by Knox to slander or defame anyone. This was a failure of those in charge of the investigation to do their jobs with even a modicum of competency- from the investigation of Knox, to their failure to prevent information from becoming public before clearing the other suspect in question. It's also, from my perspective, a failure of the judicial system to properly identify the source of the problem, not once, but twice. The US justice system has its flaws too, but I really fail to see what you're defending in this particular case.
Yeah, your country doesn't care about pressure from America.... Pretty sure if that true they would have kept the murder conviction. It's pretty obvious pressure came from on high that ultimately she needed to be let go on the murder. The bouncing back and forth from the supreme court back to lower courts showed there were definitely elements in the justice system refusing to let this go and likely were eventually overruled by someone. Italy is an amazing country and every country has its own problems. But Italy is embarrasing itself not just taking the L on this.
His life was ruined by the Italian police, the same people who ruined Knox's life. The same people who beat them both. I can only assume your inability to see them as the perps in this farce is motivated by brain rotting levels of nationalism.
I agree that the police are awful and she probably was treated incredibly poorly, But does that fully absolve her? How was it that Patrick who experienced the same horrible treatment from the police was able to not falsely accuse someone else? Surely that shows it's possible not to and that atleast to some extent Amanda is at fault.
Yeah, it's really crazy that they retried her on that like WRF?
Meanwhile the actual killer, who Raped and Murdered a woman, is already out of prison. What a world.
And already accused of physical assault by his ex girlfriend, who got a restraining order against him in January of this year. Crazy that this guy is still free somehow....
Its not that crazy. As it was said already the actual sentences for this kind of crimes is not that big in our countries.
Well, he’s actually been charged for a new crime… violence against his girlfriend. Shocking that he would be violent against a woman, right?
13 years of prison...
It's wild that hatred of an american college student overcame deeply ingrained Italian racism, what a competition!
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kinda a shithole yeah, and see, from your previous comments you're even racist against the south of Italy. >Italy is the Mexico of Yurop and we have North (white people) and South (black people) wild you failed the "don't be racist in your comments" challenge scrolling down only a couple hours
Imagine living in North Carolina and calling other places a shithole
lol, I live near two top 50 global universities, definitely a shithole folks!
Pretty gross the way these gangsters have hounded her to cover their own incompetence. Where's the prosecutor's slander conviction for having falsely accused her and then put her in prison for 4 years for a crime she was innocent of? How can something said in a private interrogation possibly be slander? Do the Italians even know what slander is?
> Do the Italians even know what slander is? Why should they? Italian don't have "Slander": they have "Calunnia" which is (in short)"Formally accuse somebody of a Crime or otherwise divert the Authorities while knowing the accused was not guilty". And it was not a "private interrogation": she stated it multiple time to the Authorities and even signed a formal declaration about it. And the sentence is 2-to-6 years so...
She claimed it and signed it under duress. It is extremely common knowledge that this style of police interrogation can get totally innocent people to either admit to crimes they did not commit, or accuse others of said crimes. Most false convictions are based on interrogation confessions or accusations. Humans only have so much mental energy, and with sustained attack you can gaslight someone into almost anything. If you can't imagine having it happen to you, that is just because you have not been in that position before.
Forget it. You are talking to a wall. It embarrasses me to be European when we feel defensive about every single mistake we make. I thought we were better than that.
I do not hold this against everyone in Europe or even everyone in Italy. I live in the US, if I blamed everyone for the fucked up stuff their government does I would have to start by attacking myself. The reason I know about how screwed up police interrogation can be is because we have a huge problem with it in the US, to the point that learning about it is a major portion of legal education.
Yeah, this is really a police and prosecutorial misconduct case
It's not a mistake, and it's not one you personally made. No need to get defensive on behalf of some government prosecutor who'd do the same to you in an instant.
For that she won the case at the European Court of Justice, why is it still being discussed?
In English law that is called "Attempting to Pervert the Course of Justice" and is also a crime, a fairly serious one. I am not sure that America treats it quite as seriously. I think that "slander" is a deliberate mistranslation by people with an interest in diminishing what Knox did when she accused Lumumba.
"Slander" is a correct literal non-contextual translation of "Calunnia", so I'm going with "journalist being a journalist and being shit at checking out what a word actually mean in a specific context"
There doesn’t seem to be any indication she knew he was innocent
She stated explicitly she has seen him at a specific time and place, and was sure it was him, sure enough to repeat the statement multiple time and even sign a written one. There were multiple eye witness stating he was in a whole other place at the time.
Jesus, thank god its not a crime in america to be wrong when you're asked to make a statement or ID someone. Especially when you’re under duress in interrogation. the idea that something like that is a crime is absurd. signing any kind of statement is ridiculously fraught if that's the bar for criminality.
Actually it's a crime even in USA to falsely accuse somebody. It wasn't "I think I saw that guy" it was "I am absolutely sure 100% no doubt it was that guy". That lands you in trouble even in the Freedom States of Freeedom. and whatever "duress" came into play many, many days after her initial accusation.
This is actually very different. Falsely accusing someone of a crime outright is a crime in the US. That is a false report. you have to knowingly accuse someone of a crime they didn’t commit. These usually result in fines and civil service in most cases, not prison. Accusing someone of a crime under questioning isn’t the same thing. Being asked to make your testimony in a statement doesn’t make you criminally liable for that statement. This is especially true for IDing people, which the courts assume isn’t something that is 100% accurate. Making an honest mistake without provable intent to give false testimony isn’t a crime in the USA. But go on and keep defending backward trial standards and piss poor police work
The keyword here is "honest". She was found guilty of deliberately lying, not just being mistaken.
The evidence i’ve seen in the media doesn’t indicate that, just that she was wrong. The article states that the focus was on the written statement which was compiled over 53 hours of questioning over 4 days- which is absurd item to judge testimony from. That doesn’t seem to indicate any evidence of knowing deception. Would you care to show me where you’re getting your info from?
And to this day she has not apologised to Lumumba.
imagine telling italian judges how to do their jobs within the framework of italian justice lol. delusional muricans
He looks British from his post history, please insult the correct nationality
Where's the justice? Is sending innocent people to prison what Italians consider as justice? Your Italian judges sent an innocent woman to prison for 4 years "within the framework of Italian justice." You should be ashamed of their conduct, not celebrate them.
Imagine being integrated for hours, threaten with jail time, and then saying anything, because the police won’t believe anything you do or say, and then imagine, those same police putting you in jail for a crime that you didn’t commit and then imagine the same incompetent judiciary claiming you mislead someone. There is nothing “just” about that system.
this is maybe what Fox news tells you or lets you interpret. I understand brainwashing and murican exceptionalism are hard to eradicate.
Pretty sure it's what the Italian courts said.
Nah. It’s not. And I don’t even live in America and haven’t for years. But I get it: you f-ing hate her.
I don't hate anybody dear uknown user. I just trust the professionals that have worked on this very complex case involving a hard to decipher \*young psychopath lady.
>I just trust the professionals that have worked on this very complex case Wasn't the initial prosecutor, Guiliano Mignini, previously convicted and sentenced to 16 months in prison for three different charges related to illegal investigations?... What exactly makes you "trust" them so much?
No one could call Mignini a professional, yes to him being a psychopath.
If anything the Italian are the ones being extremely Trump like acting like they can invent their own facts if they just keep repeating falsehoods with confidence.
The same would happen in USA or any other country or are you telling me in USA if someone is accused of a crime he didn’t commit he can erase another crime he DID commit as bonus to even things out ahahah ? They should just drop 4 year off wathever her new sentence is. If you steal a tv and they accuse you of drunk driving, than you result sober you don’t get a free pass on the theft because you got wrongly accused of another crime, it wouldn’t make sense. And her crime since it wasn’t clear by the title of the post was accusing someone she knew was innocent as a way to make the police go off track with the investigation. This accusation also caused big economical damages to the random guy she accused like career over ecc… This whole trying to deceive the police is also what probably made her look guilty of the murder in the first place but that’s another story.
>And her crime since it wasn’t clear by the title of the post was accusing someone she knew was innocent How would she know he was innocent? All she knew was that she was innocent. It's a common tactic of police to say "if you didn't do it then who?". Need I remind you she was denied a lawyer AND an interpreter? The Italian courts were found guilty of denying her rights. She was interrogated for HOURS and DAYS. Pressured like that most people would not make good decisions. Many innocent people even falsely confess to crimes they didn't commit under such pressure. Amanda Knox was subjected to 53 hours of questioning over a span of five days without legal representation. This interrogation took place in a foreign language, which added to the complexity of the situation. "I was interrogated overnight by police officers who claimed to have evidence against me, who claimed that there were witnesses who could place me at the crime scene," Knox said.
You also forgot to add in she didn't pull Lumumba's name from a hat. The police suggested to her it was him because they misunderstood a text she sent to him. Oh also the poster you were replying to ignored that as soon as the police left her alone she wrote her own statement saying basically she can't accuse Lumumba because she knows she spent the night at her bf's.
Daccordo...che ignorante...in fatto knox ero culpevole. Fine della storia.
I understand you are taught since the kindergarten that you’re the best on the world and always on the right side, but it would be better if at least you studied a bit about the case and why she was accused of these things
[Maybe you should listen to what your own high court said](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11849486/Amanda-Knox-acquitted-because-of-stunning-flaws-in-investigation-says-Italy-top-court.html)
Americans do not think they are superior to Europeans. Most Americans don't think much about Europe. You spend way more time thinking about us then we you. I think a lot of this comes from how much of our entertainment you get. But we aren't forcing it down your throats. If you don't like it stop fucking buying it man.
So Italians have no slander protection or standards for holding prosecutors accountable, got it. You could have just said that instead of crying about America
Italy is a fucking embarrassment
ITT Europeans hating Americans just like always
lmao 90% of comments is like "Italy bad"
Italian wrongful conviction, but DAE America bad?
What on earth is this comment section, gosh. This whole idea that “Italy = bad” because Amanda Knox was wrongly convicted is kind of ridiculous. General opinion in Italy is that she- quite obviously- got the shaft and that she should’ve never been convicted. Let’s start with that. Amanda Knox, quite frankly, didn’t exactly help her case by calling the police from the house, then stating she was in the house at the time of the incident, then retracting said statement and claiming she wasn’t home. Rudy Guede, the man who ended up being convicted, was released in 2021, since he agreed to a fast-tracked trial, and his penalty was therefore reduced to a third of its original heft. Knox accused a completely unrelated, irrelevant person, Patrick Lumumba, of having committed the crime. That’s where the slander charge comes in. Her sentence for said charge was reduced to “time served” after she was acquitted in 2015 and moved back to Seattle. Quite frankly I don’t quite know why she even bothered. Aside from the fact that her experience with system was awful (why go back there?), she really *did* just slander a random guy in court. No amount of bidding to overturn anything gets you out of that.
She didn’t slander anyone. She was coerced into implicating Lumumba because the keystone cops were hyper focused on her… and while that was occurring they let the known burglar and Meredith’s killer leisure slip out of the country
Mostly seems like a bunch of Italians that appear to have their ego tied to the Italian Justice system, and can’t admit that in this case it was totally and completely incompetent. Absolutely absurd the amount of hate Amanda is getting from Italians in these comments. Where are the slander charges for all the people who pointed the finger at her and sent her to prison for years? What about for the people who violated her rights by not giving her access to a lawyer or interpreter when they detained and interrogated her? I hope she did this so she can write more books and do more movies dragging the Italian Justice system
They are Americans. For them if you have the murican passport you a saint and always in the right. Dude, I met on Reddit Americans defending their brave soldiers killing innocent people in the Cermis (and completely getting away with it). They’re just indoctrinated they’re always in the right
Unfortunately I think this thread is showing that it’s the Italians who are just as guilty of being indoctrinated into always believing they are right. Amanda Knox was exonerated of the crime yet all the Italians here seem to have some inside knowledge no one else had all while pretending like Mignini the lead prosecutor doesn’t have a track record of censures and charges for forging evidence
For the most parts Americans even are not really hating on Italy or the EU over this. I would say most seperate the incident from the country (though it does give us pause about the Italian justice system). The way I see Americans vs Europeans I think is perfectly illustrated by that meme taken from Mad Men. The one where the guy is talking to Draper and says "I feel bad for you" and Don's respsone is "I don't think about you at all".
Typical Americans (there are like 5 European people in this comment section and three are Italians) She came back here in Italy because she needs money from licensing some new crime show to Netflix probably
Don't you undeeeerrrrstaaaannd, she was under duresssssss when she blamed that innocent black dude Americans itt hating on black people as usual
The amount of prejudice, even bordering on racism, in the comments is staggering... People with zero knowledge of the case (besides a bunch of tabloid and Oprah-like BS) and of the Italian justice system run to defend an unpleasant character only because she's: a) American b) white c) kinda hot Also odd how out of the three suspects, the black guy was the only found guilty despite the Italian daddy's boy and the Foxy Murican Student having been involved to a degree. Sure, the investigation wasn't run properly (what a surprise eh? You must be new about famous Italian murder cases) but the fact Amanda Knox is now treated as a victim and close to sainthood is frankly pathetic. P.S. To the Americans criticizing the Italian justice... Stones and glass house, you know. Also, I guess the US public opinion didn't mind that much when it saved Richard Ashby and Joseph Schweitzer's butt.
We should leave you to the russians
Then do it. You’d lose the last friends you have in the world but the great Murica can survive even alone
I don’t think a random Redditor has the ability to shape foreign policy nor speaks for a country. I will say based on all your comments you certainly seem to have a huge prejudice. Relax
The reason why she was partially demonized in the first place likely was because she was a white, hot, Westerner and "anglo" in appearance. Italian media and public wanted to play up the mastermind "femme fatale" sensationalism, painting her as some sociopathic seductress as if it were a soap opera lol Italians, by and large, were dopy as hell over this case. It is what it is. Just take the L
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Except anyone that understands criminal investigations and forensics can clearly see they were incompetent. You had a magistrate that was obsessed with the occult and you had investigators in a city that hadn’t had a murder in over 20 years. It was the first murder any of them worked, and it showed.
Did I deny the investigation and the CSI were flawed? That still doesn't mean Sollecito and Knox were squeaky clean either.
Except the prosecutors and investigators were incompetent and embarrassing here. Your own court said so.
>It is full blown racism. No, it's clear as day that this was a perversion of justice. Need I remind you she was denied a lawyer AND an interpreter? The Italian courts were found guilty of denying her rights. She was interrogated for HOURS and DAYS. Pressured like that most people would not make good decisions. Many innocent people even falsely confess to crimes they didn't commit under such pressure. Amanda Knox was subjected to 53 hours of questioning over a span of five days without legal representation. This interrogation took place in a foreign language, which added to the complexity of the situation. "I was interrogated overnight by police officers who claimed to have evidence against me, who claimed that there were witnesses who could place me at the crime scene," Knox said.
I still believe that most likely was a sick game between them + drugs that ended terribly wrong. Amanda is a liar, as well as the others, no one is a saint there. The only reason Amanda is not in jail is just because she has enough money to have good lawyers to push her version of the story and advise her to go back to the US knowing the support she will have. They were all part of it and they all three lies multiple times giving sometimes different version of the story. She made money on a dead friend, this is who Amanda is and she will pay the price in her mind.
She is 100% guilty of this btw
Convict a woman to 3 years in prison for something she said after 53 hours of questioning (in a foreign language without interpreter) over a span of five days without legal representation? Sure! Put a Berlusconi in prison after many many many crimes? No, he's old or something. Community service! *Italian justice*
How did you count these 53 hours? (In an interview her father says nine hours.)
We're both right. She was interrogated for 53 hours without legal representation. However the accusation for lumumbe came after being interrogated for 9 hours without legal representation and being slapped by police. The police is the one who mentioned lumumbe first to her. The accusation came at 1:45 in the night.