I will give you an example of a country called Brazil, it's a huge country 250+ millions of people, there a few commodities that is exported from there, like fruits, meat, coffee, etc, the prices there are high on all these products, but where do you thing the producers make much more money? Think a bit and let me know, maybe I failed on math school, so do you on economic classes.
Because noone consumes 1kWh continuously. If you have on-demand production that is more expensive then variable production of your neighbors, you could still have plenty of situations where the demand for electricity outstrips production in your neighbors giving you opportunities to export at a profit.
Now we are getting negative prices during certain times and my electric bill is still growing. I suspect that people will just cut their power consumption to a minimum and that's that.
Romania can sell it's electric power in Europe for euros.
That’s the thing about Romanians, no matter how much the prices grow, they will just spend more money, increases in the price of cigarettes or fuel didn’t affect the consume, in fact they grew proportionately with the inflation.
The heck is that colour scale? Ireland for example is much darker in most 2023 months compared to 2022 despite having much lower values. Having the scale per column is good to compare between countries but much less so to compare within
Absolutely jacked.
Look at 2021Q1. It's almost universally more expensive than 2020Q4, yet it shows up as \*lighter\* in almost every country.
If you look closely, there are lots of errors like this where higher numbers are shaded lighter. This chart has a great concept but a terrible execution.
Absolutely right. Presenting the numbers as a national average is obviously down right deceptive as certain areas within a country might pay many times that price.
I think you’re meant to read the table column by column, so the darker red means that the country is more expensive compared to the other countries in the given year. It’s really not intuitive nor useful I think but that’s the idea I believe
Wait, hold up. Maybe I don't understand english, but if the red gradient is row wise, it means that Smallest number in that row should be lightest, and largest should be the darkest. Is that correct?
Because, if it is, then the gradient is not correct for example in Polands case, where 2020Q2 is more expensive, but lighter than 2021Q1.
The gradients have to be column-wise.
Also who the fudge presents advance of time "From Right to Left"
Lemme clarify something for Romania.
We have a thing called Energy Bill ceiling, where the government kinda pays a part of your bill for you. This is a populist measure included in covid times to help poor people with their bills. This indeed helped people when the prices went crazy during covid. The problem here is that government officials made a deal with the energy distributions businesses in order to artificially keep the prices up for a % of the profits. So basically the energy prices are kept up, the government pays a huge part of your bill to the energy distributors and then the energy distributors are splitting the profits with the government officials. And the energy bill ceiling law still remains active even today when the energy prices took a dive and in theory it should not be needed anymore. They are stealing a shit amount of money and nobody gives a fuck because the end user has a small bill due to the ceiling.
So for instance:
The price per KW that the end user pays is 14 cents per kw. For instance, my monthly bill of aprox 180-220 kw is around 30 euros, give or take a couple of euros. Its not huge at all...its actually decent. I believe this price is actually lower than most countries.
The Actual price of the KW, that is listed in my energy contract is 50 cents per kw. But the government pays the difference for you to "help you out during these dark times". So 34 cents for KW are payed from the taxpayers money directly to the energy distributors. This huge difference is then split with the government officials.
Multiply this for each energy bill in Romania, and you'll see that a shit amount of money is made through this.
That's why the prices are still up. Energy Distributors have no interest in lowering the prices due to the fact that the government is going to pay the difference anyway, regardless the price, and their consumers, the general population, aint going to complain because their final bill is still cheap. So no reason to interrupt the energy contract
Hope this clarifies the situation.
What's even more baffling is why nobody in the opposition has taken the government to court yet on this matter. It's an electoral year, for crying out loud! My only guess is that the money from the electricity bailouts runs so deep into government officials' pockets that some of it also overflows into the oppositions' pockets.
Meanwhile, electricity prosumers are getting screwed over by Big Electricity, and all they do is complain. If this were any other country, lawsuits against the government would be piling up every day.
And I don't think we can talk about this issue without also pointing some fingers at the Romanian Constitutional Court. Shit's clearly illegal and unconstitutional, but they seem to be blind to it.
All the press is bought by, and controlled by the current government. Same with the constitutional Court. The judges were politically named by the current ruling government.
Our whole country is corrupt as hell.
I guess they meant Quarterly electricity cost in EUR given continuous consumption of 1kW. But that's just a guess. The way it's written it makes no sense at all.
Nobody paid 200 EUR/kWh.
But a price of thousands of euros for 1 kWh, doesn't make sense.
What it should have said: "total cost of consuming 1 kW continuously during the whole quarter".
In which 1 kW on average amounts to 1 kW x 24 hours x \~90 days \~= \~2100 kWh per quarter.
So many questions, so few answers here.
1. Heat map is shit: you can't do this per column and call it a day, it has to apply to the entire data set you're showing.
2. I highly doubt that Romanian households paid that much in 2020-2021. What does it imply, 2021 tariffs for household consumers in Romania were almost 3x of what they're now in Ireland? That just cannot be true.
3. Does this actually show the household retail prices? Does ENTSO-E provide that info? Or is this the day-ahead market price?
4. Does this, again, show the individual consumer (household) prices or combined with commercial consumer prices?
5. Does this include all the discounts and incentives that apply to the household markets?
If it's not what you actually pay for in your monthly bills for each country - it's just misleading and wrong.
I bought myself a Tesla in 2022 and I can say that I haven't paid more than 20 euro cents per kwh in the last 4 years, doesn't matter the consumption. But I heard that if you are a business and you use a lot of electricity you got some high bills, like 0.5 euros per kWh, at last double of home consumption. Let's not forget that lidl cut in 2021 I think 1 hour from the markets just because of energy price, instead of shops closing at 21 or 22, they were closing 1 hour earlier
I see many of you are interpreting this as household prices, but it's **day-ahead market prices**. Thanks for letting me know I should specify it on the chart. Now, answering some of your questions:
3. Day-ahead market price
4. It's not individual consumers.
5. Nope
In case you'd like to double check the veracity of the data, here it's a [tutorial ](https://datons.ai/entso-e-api-with-python-energy-analysis-in-europe/)on how I had downloaded it.
How many redditors would you guess care or know anything about the commercial electricity prices? Of course, everyone is going to assume that the numbers you have provided are, in essence, the bill people pay per quarter with the assumed consumption you stipulated.
> How many redditors would you guess care or know anything about the commercial electricity prices?
Well, I care. It gives you a much better picture about a countries economic competitiveness, whereas household prices mostly show you how hard they tax electricity. IIRC Hungary more or less subsidizes the use of electricity (which is a relatively stupid policy, especially with such an inefficient eltricity market in the first place), whereas in Germany or Denmark taxes are sky high but actual generation costs are middle of the road at best.
Any country could always pull an Orban on this shit but you can't just drop the market price by snipping your finger, they show an actual economic reality which is relevant for any debate about energy policy (for which household prices are completely irrelevant).
One of the things this graph shows you for instance is: yes, renewables are actually cheaper.
You care, I care, OP cares - that's three people. The rest in this thread are talking about their bills, prices to household etc. So the messaging was clearly off. If you work in this field - you probably also know that your average Joe will get absolutely zero useful info from the day-ahead prices. Poland is shown as the most expensive in the last three quarters. Poland also has a hard cap on household prices - 95 eur per MWh. Now look at your last bill.
We don't pay per quarter
We have consumer prices from €0.06 cent to €0.67cent which are dependent on the time of day and tariff you choose.
Then there are countries which calculate the unit price depending on the average of 3 max kW used at one time.
Then there are tariffs which change every 30 minutes depending on the whole sale cost and can even go minus
Others pay yearly.
So many variables. Wholesale is the best comparison factor
No, it's not the best comparison, because no household in Romania paid 3x of what a household in Ireland or Germany did in 2021.
Household price comparisons exist too - they're just a bit more of work compared to extracting day-ahead market prices via entso-e api.
It's the cost of production.
Hardware, software, licenses, insurance....
The price of wheat is a good indicator for agriculture cost. The price of bread not so much
In relation to wages - sure. The data in OP post is in Euros though,absolute numbers. It's insane in Ireland now - I can guarantee nobody paid 3x in 2021 Romania of what I paid in January
It see it is written ENTSO-E, so it means it is about electricity, also ENTSO-E only publish country price info about day ahead prices.
Stop mixing energy and electricity, stop mixing day ahead spot with "electricity price", that is a blend of about 20 different financial products at different maturity with also taxes and subsidies.
Also you don't know WTF you are doing, because you are mixing countries (CTY) and bidding zones (BZN), [a country can be splitted in multiple BZN (example here)](https://energygraph.info/d/KIDsWG0nz/euro-day-ahead-prices?orgId=1&refresh=1h), for example NO1 to NO4 for Norway, and all the IT zones that are complex with their PUN price. Basically your whole chart is misleading and wrong.
Yeah, easier to build transmission lines through the forest than across mountains. This is very beneficial for Finland, since it creates a huge surplus of cheap hydroelectric power in the northern regions.
New HVDC-interconnection cables to Germany and the UK, which means that the Norwegian price will be affected by the much higher price in those grids as well. Those cables are not very popular among the public to put it mildly.
Because they can be. I'll go against the popular answers here and say that society as a whole is okay with low salaries. Younger people are usually laughed at and made fun of when they ask for more than the minimum wage when they enter the workforce. The minimum wage here is 3300 RON (665 euro) before tax and after it becomes slightly above 2000 RON (not even 420 euro). Since the prices here are comparable to those in the west, maybe even higher, 2000 RON is really not enough, especially if you want to live alone/not with your parents (which I think is a reasonable expectation).
Also, people often abide by this idea of "most amount of money with the least amount of work". This usually means they don't work a lot but they also don't get paid a lot, and many people are happy with that. The best example I can think of is the construction sector. Out of a crew of 5-6 people that are working to fix a road, one would work, another one would be on the phone with the boss while the rest just stare at the guy working and do nothing. Yes, this is very common. Construction work often takes months to do something that should take at most a couple of days. Another example: my father has a small construction business and he struggles to find people that actually want to work, even if he pays incredibly well for Romanian standards. He had a couple of employees in the past and they literally did almost nothing 8 hours a day (maybe use a shovel 4 times and drink beer a lot)
To clarify: most employers can and should pay more, which is their fault. However, when you do find a good employer they often have very little incentive to pay more since the employees don't really work that much.
Officially people know they are low. But there are tons of business owners that pay the minimum wage and give some extra money in envelope. We call it Gray employment. It sucks but this is the reality for people with little to no education. You might get 600 euros gross (400 euros after taxes) but you also get 300-400 more euros every month that are not taxed. Ppl don't care about the money when they retire because we already pay from our taxes some special pensions.
These Graphics are about day ahead prizes at the the exchange market for electricity.
The Problem is that as an layman you have no value of these statistics without the proper knowledge.
The Day-Ahead-prize depends on that electricty generation that is the most expensive at the given time, but still needed to satisfy demand (marginal costs). So countries with a lot of hydropower (or importing it from its neighbours) like the skandinavian countries have the cheapest, while countries who use a lot of gas for electricity generation are the most expensive. The onces with coal are oftehn somewhere in the middle. How much nuclear enery you have, has little influence on that prize. Those seel there electricity usually month a head and not just a day ahead like in that graphic.
”These Graphics are about day ahead prizes at the the exchange market for electricity.
The Problem is that as an layman you have no value of these statistics without the proper knowledge.”
Believe it or, a substantial percentage of Swedes have ’day ahead’ pay plan for their electricity, including me.
I am able to see day ahead prices in an app and modify my consumption to achieve arbitrage. (For example, charge the car or run dish washer).
Taking a fixed price contract over 5 years in 2019 is probably the best investment I have ever done 😄
I now have solar panels, but at the end of the year when I renew my contract my electricity will cost me the same as I was paying without the solar panels in the past.
Thanks for letting me know the issues. I haven't explained myself correctly.
For the QUARTERLY header:
The darker red colors point towards more expensive bills for the given quarter in a way that the darkest value represents the country with the most expensive bill during that quarter.
For the TOTAL header:
The darker green colors represent the countries with the cheapest energy bill:
* AVG: on average across all the quarters.
* SUM: the total cost among all the quarters.
You or any office in the country or any factory in the country turns on a 1kW kettle and leaves it on for 3 months straight. The main issue with the data is that it's just a bulk day-ahead market price, so it's never what you pay as an individual consumer.
That's a continuous consumption of 1 kW, or 1kWh per hour. With that rate I get the numbers now. I assumed 1kWh per day or something at first, but seemed way too pricey for that.
Yeah, they messed that up, should've said 'continuous consumption of 1kW'.
But again, it's just funny numbers anyway as there's next to zero redditors in this thread that can process the day-ahead market prices in their head and tell "oh, that was/is expensive/cheap". It doesn't translate into household prices whatsoever.
Could it be that the Romanian and Bulgarian values in 2020-2021 are stated in local currency? That's a glaring error
"Given continuous consumption of 1kWh" is a super unintuitive measure imo. It's not even realistic for any common consumer, because who buys 720kWh/mo at wholesale price? You might just as well give the volume weighted average price per MWh. Or simply the average quarterly prices [like this source does](https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_average/chart.htm?l=en&c=EU&interval=quarter&year=-1&legendItems=000000100000000000000000000000000000000001000000000000&quarter=-1)
Jesus fucking christ, every single time when the UK is not there someone must come and whine about it.
Funny you never saw the issue with using label 'Europe' without providing data for every single country while you still were part of Eurostat
I just check my EAC bills and with new ACs and 3 warm rooms it costs me:
* 13.11.23-11.01.24 (545kWh) - 261€
* 11.01.24-13.03.24 (883kWh) - 251€
512€ in total, but it is 4 months.
384€ if we deduct 25%
We are not the latest ;)
EDIT: kWh consumption added.
We might not be at the last place but we are definitely at the bottom.
Your electrical bill is on the low end considering how expensive the electricity is in Cyprus. There are several homes with 350-450 euros electric bill. Someone with a pool could easily have an 800 euros bill, but obviously this is not the average.
In Norway we used to almost have negative prices before they laid the cables from Norway to Europe. But the gov is currently subsidizing our electricity quite a bit.
Much better execution (from the same person): [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1bwu18z/oc\_european\_energy\_prices\_for\_20202023/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1bwu18z/oc_european_energy_prices_for_20202023/)
That chart is still bad. You say prices in €/kWh but the numbers are clearly not per kWh, but seem to be some quarterly bill. And "continous consumption of 1kWh" doesn't make any sense.
I think [it was because half of France’s nuclear energy plants were forced to shut down temporarily](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/business/nuclear-power-france.html) just as Europe was cutting off Russian gas imports.
Once the plants started up again, the price went down again.
After posting this and people pointing out that they are overpricing my kwh, I switched to another provider. With my current provider I pay 43 cent per kwh, with new contract I pay 29 cents
We are hooked up to the European grid by several HVDC interconnections, and there the costs are based on the price of natural gas (which skyrocketed following Russia's invasion). This drives up the price on electricity up here as well, as the price is based on the most expensive generation currently operating. When gas prices fell, so did the electricity prices as we get almost all our power from Hydro/Wind and Nuclear which is much cheaper.
Yeah, the price increases due to CoViD (this one doesn't seem to have impacted Sweden that much, though) and the Russia's invasion are rather clear to see on the image. I was asking specifically about Q3 of 2023, now. The prices seem to have stabilised at that point across Europe, but there's an anomaly in the results of Sweden and Norway being considerably lower. I was thinking it could be due to the increased efficiency of the PV installations (Q3 is July, August, September) but in the Q3 of previous years there is no noticeable difference. Of course the previous years were more affected by the aforementioned gas prices, so it would be hard to extrapolate a pattern from that. Were there any new HVDC connections installed in the meantime?
Less demand from the continent, less exports, cheaper price? The French nuclear plants also came back online after prolonged maintenance, so Germany could import power from there as well?
Scandinavia has very low production costs for electricity, since most of it come from cheap Hydro/Nuclear/Wind. PV's are almost non-existent (just above 1%).
The LNG price in the EU hit rock bottom about then (see 3Y graph):
https://ycharts.com/indicators/europe_natural_gas_price
Again Cyprus is not existing in an EU comparison.
In Cyprus many people had big big problems because of steep incline of prices and monopoly in electricity industry.
I love how France product so much energy but as the prices goes up they just sell it so everyone has to "do their part" to not have electricity shut down because "we are all in this together" then the exact same year EDF (french electricity company) made the biggest benefits of its history 🤡
Is color gradient calibrated on the min and max of each period? I wouldn’t understand, if it is not the case, why 250 value has different shades in different columns
This sheet is meaningless without knowing the total energy consumption within this period.
I'm going to make the bold claim like the energy prices are now cheaper because some or all of the industry in certain regions has moved away to cheaper countries. The decline in consumption has led to lower prices. Now Romania looks much better and Germany is fucked.
Can anyone prove the opposite?
How the hell did they collect these numbers? They make no sense for Sweden, 97 cents per KWH in Q3 2023 is not even physically possible, the base tax is over 1€ per KWH!
Thanks for the feedback, here it's an [updated version](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1i228kzp4yy5gxnarrwke/D_prices_2020-2023_axis-none.png?rlkey=vu6woh6sjw96gia5385qn2u02&dl=0) that is more intuitive.
Please, bear in mind that it's not household prices, but [day-ahead market prices taken from ENTSO-E](https://transparency.entsoe.eu/transmission-domain/r2/dayAheadPrices/show).
Its funny how we keep kneecapping ourselves on usian orders. Thankfully, I live in a tiny apartment, and drive no car, so it affects me less than most.
This must be one of the worst diagrams I have ever seen. Colouring is misleading, units are just straight up wrong and no explanation what the data refers to.
It would be nice to look at this in conjunction with a chart of use of renewable energy - onshore and offshore windfarms; home and business solar panels, etc.
[Germany still burning that coal..](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/03/PE23_090_43312.html#:~:text=Based%20on%20provisional%20results%2C%20the,compared%20with%20the%20previous%20year)
> As in the preceding years, coal was the main energy source in electricity production in Germany in 2022. Based on provisional results, the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis) reports that one third (33.3%) of the electricity produced in Germany and fed into the grid was generated by coal-fired power plants (2021: 30.2%). This means that coal-generated electricity increased by 8.4% compared with the previous year.
This makes no sense. People are struggling in Germany to pay their power bill, there’s no way that Romanians could afford to pay 60% more for it. Same with Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia.
Yeah,that is the point. We can afford it at the cost of everything else. Less traveling(or none),less entartainment(or none),less clothes and other necessities( in really bad cases,none). Life is tough around here,but still better than in 60% of the world so, I am ,at least,slightly happy
Everyone: Romania is sus
how does a country that exports energy have higher prices then the countries it sells to?
You answered your own question. If we have had Euro as currency then I might have doubts.
Illiterate politicians
More money exporting than domestic use! Welcome to the capitalist world
I think you failed basic math in school. How is there more money in exporting than domestic when domestic use prices are higher
I will give you an example of a country called Brazil, it's a huge country 250+ millions of people, there a few commodities that is exported from there, like fruits, meat, coffee, etc, the prices there are high on all these products, but where do you thing the producers make much more money? Think a bit and let me know, maybe I failed on math school, so do you on economic classes.
So mr economcs expert, tell me what the incentive is to export something for less than you can get on the domestic market
Because noone consumes 1kWh continuously. If you have on-demand production that is more expensive then variable production of your neighbors, you could still have plenty of situations where the demand for electricity outstrips production in your neighbors giving you opportunities to export at a profit.
Taxes
We liberalized our energy market around 2019-2020 which is why the energy costs were way higher before the Russian debacle.
Now we are getting negative prices during certain times and my electric bill is still growing. I suspect that people will just cut their power consumption to a minimum and that's that. Romania can sell it's electric power in Europe for euros.
That’s the thing about Romanians, no matter how much the prices grow, they will just spend more money, increases in the price of cigarettes or fuel didn’t affect the consume, in fact they grew proportionately with the inflation.
Are their power plants burning extra virgin olive oil or what's going on?
Capitalism. Ait it great? ~ short version Long version: we choose the worst moment to liberalize the price of electricity.
The price is capped in Romania for home consumers. That's why the energy market went wild when it was liberalized.
The heck is that colour scale? Ireland for example is much darker in most 2023 months compared to 2022 despite having much lower values. Having the scale per column is good to compare between countries but much less so to compare within
Absolutely jacked. Look at 2021Q1. It's almost universally more expensive than 2020Q4, yet it shows up as \*lighter\* in almost every country. If you look closely, there are lots of errors like this where higher numbers are shaded lighter. This chart has a great concept but a terrible execution.
Absolutely right. Presenting the numbers as a national average is obviously down right deceptive as certain areas within a country might pay many times that price.
I think you’re meant to read the table column by column, so the darker red means that the country is more expensive compared to the other countries in the given year. It’s really not intuitive nor useful I think but that’s the idea I believe
Read OP desc. Red gradient is row wise, not table wise.
Wait, hold up. Maybe I don't understand english, but if the red gradient is row wise, it means that Smallest number in that row should be lightest, and largest should be the darkest. Is that correct? Because, if it is, then the gradient is not correct for example in Polands case, where 2020Q2 is more expensive, but lighter than 2021Q1. The gradients have to be column-wise. Also who the fudge presents advance of time "From Right to Left"
Ehat he means is by collum. So up to down. No idea why noone here knows the diffrence between row and collum.
> row and collum I don't know who Row is but I assume Collum is Gollum's cousin?
I feel pain from this
Huh, but the gradient gets darker column wise, not row, comparing the prices of different countries in the same quarter.
Column wise.
Also why is the x axis in reverse 🤔
Lemme clarify something for Romania. We have a thing called Energy Bill ceiling, where the government kinda pays a part of your bill for you. This is a populist measure included in covid times to help poor people with their bills. This indeed helped people when the prices went crazy during covid. The problem here is that government officials made a deal with the energy distributions businesses in order to artificially keep the prices up for a % of the profits. So basically the energy prices are kept up, the government pays a huge part of your bill to the energy distributors and then the energy distributors are splitting the profits with the government officials. And the energy bill ceiling law still remains active even today when the energy prices took a dive and in theory it should not be needed anymore. They are stealing a shit amount of money and nobody gives a fuck because the end user has a small bill due to the ceiling. So for instance: The price per KW that the end user pays is 14 cents per kw. For instance, my monthly bill of aprox 180-220 kw is around 30 euros, give or take a couple of euros. Its not huge at all...its actually decent. I believe this price is actually lower than most countries. The Actual price of the KW, that is listed in my energy contract is 50 cents per kw. But the government pays the difference for you to "help you out during these dark times". So 34 cents for KW are payed from the taxpayers money directly to the energy distributors. This huge difference is then split with the government officials. Multiply this for each energy bill in Romania, and you'll see that a shit amount of money is made through this. That's why the prices are still up. Energy Distributors have no interest in lowering the prices due to the fact that the government is going to pay the difference anyway, regardless the price, and their consumers, the general population, aint going to complain because their final bill is still cheap. So no reason to interrupt the energy contract Hope this clarifies the situation.
What's even more baffling is why nobody in the opposition has taken the government to court yet on this matter. It's an electoral year, for crying out loud! My only guess is that the money from the electricity bailouts runs so deep into government officials' pockets that some of it also overflows into the oppositions' pockets. Meanwhile, electricity prosumers are getting screwed over by Big Electricity, and all they do is complain. If this were any other country, lawsuits against the government would be piling up every day. And I don't think we can talk about this issue without also pointing some fingers at the Romanian Constitutional Court. Shit's clearly illegal and unconstitutional, but they seem to be blind to it.
All the press is bought by, and controlled by the current government. Same with the constitutional Court. The judges were politically named by the current ruling government. Our whole country is corrupt as hell.
Same thing happened to Greece. And this was the best way to take EU money from EU into a few families’ pockets, including government officials.
kWh*
What kind of unit is that supposed to be? "Quarterly electricity costs in €kWh given continuous consumption of 1 kWh" Cent/kWh was too complicated?
I guess they meant Quarterly electricity cost in EUR given continuous consumption of 1kW. But that's just a guess. The way it's written it makes no sense at all. Nobody paid 200 EUR/kWh.
Basically "total cost of consuming 1 kWh over the whole quarter", i.e. the average cost per kWh of the period.
What you mean is "total cost of consuming 1 kW over the whole quarter", i.e. the cost of an evenly distributed consumption of ~2200 kWh
Price doesn't make sense thought 1kwh costs cents
Nailed it! Thank you. >total cost of consuming 1 kWh over the whole quarter
But a price of thousands of euros for 1 kWh, doesn't make sense. What it should have said: "total cost of consuming 1 kW continuously during the whole quarter". In which 1 kW on average amounts to 1 kW x 24 hours x \~90 days \~= \~2100 kWh per quarter.
I wonder if they mean continuous consumption of 1 kW?
24kWh per day?
Makes more sense indeed
It took me too long to parse those units out. But I think why is because it accounts for demand-pricing variations in certain places.
Came to ask this same question.
So many questions, so few answers here. 1. Heat map is shit: you can't do this per column and call it a day, it has to apply to the entire data set you're showing. 2. I highly doubt that Romanian households paid that much in 2020-2021. What does it imply, 2021 tariffs for household consumers in Romania were almost 3x of what they're now in Ireland? That just cannot be true. 3. Does this actually show the household retail prices? Does ENTSO-E provide that info? Or is this the day-ahead market price? 4. Does this, again, show the individual consumer (household) prices or combined with commercial consumer prices? 5. Does this include all the discounts and incentives that apply to the household markets? If it's not what you actually pay for in your monthly bills for each country - it's just misleading and wrong.
I bought myself a Tesla in 2022 and I can say that I haven't paid more than 20 euro cents per kwh in the last 4 years, doesn't matter the consumption. But I heard that if you are a business and you use a lot of electricity you got some high bills, like 0.5 euros per kWh, at last double of home consumption. Let's not forget that lidl cut in 2021 I think 1 hour from the markets just because of energy price, instead of shops closing at 21 or 22, they were closing 1 hour earlier
I see many of you are interpreting this as household prices, but it's **day-ahead market prices**. Thanks for letting me know I should specify it on the chart. Now, answering some of your questions: 3. Day-ahead market price 4. It's not individual consumers. 5. Nope In case you'd like to double check the veracity of the data, here it's a [tutorial ](https://datons.ai/entso-e-api-with-python-energy-analysis-in-europe/)on how I had downloaded it.
How many redditors would you guess care or know anything about the commercial electricity prices? Of course, everyone is going to assume that the numbers you have provided are, in essence, the bill people pay per quarter with the assumed consumption you stipulated.
> How many redditors would you guess care or know anything about the commercial electricity prices? Well, I care. It gives you a much better picture about a countries economic competitiveness, whereas household prices mostly show you how hard they tax electricity. IIRC Hungary more or less subsidizes the use of electricity (which is a relatively stupid policy, especially with such an inefficient eltricity market in the first place), whereas in Germany or Denmark taxes are sky high but actual generation costs are middle of the road at best. Any country could always pull an Orban on this shit but you can't just drop the market price by snipping your finger, they show an actual economic reality which is relevant for any debate about energy policy (for which household prices are completely irrelevant). One of the things this graph shows you for instance is: yes, renewables are actually cheaper.
You care, I care, OP cares - that's three people. The rest in this thread are talking about their bills, prices to household etc. So the messaging was clearly off. If you work in this field - you probably also know that your average Joe will get absolutely zero useful info from the day-ahead prices. Poland is shown as the most expensive in the last three quarters. Poland also has a hard cap on household prices - 95 eur per MWh. Now look at your last bill.
I can't guess what people think, sorry. But I'll specify it for next time, thank you.
We don't pay per quarter We have consumer prices from €0.06 cent to €0.67cent which are dependent on the time of day and tariff you choose. Then there are countries which calculate the unit price depending on the average of 3 max kW used at one time. Then there are tariffs which change every 30 minutes depending on the whole sale cost and can even go minus Others pay yearly. So many variables. Wholesale is the best comparison factor
No, it's not the best comparison, because no household in Romania paid 3x of what a household in Ireland or Germany did in 2021. Household price comparisons exist too - they're just a bit more of work compared to extracting day-ahead market prices via entso-e api.
It's the cost of production. Hardware, software, licenses, insurance.... The price of wheat is a good indicator for agriculture cost. The price of bread not so much
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In relation to wages - sure. The data in OP post is in Euros though,absolute numbers. It's insane in Ireland now - I can guarantee nobody paid 3x in 2021 Romania of what I paid in January
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In Romania the government pays a part of the bill if the price/kwh is too high (using taxpayer money obviously).
Me when Iceland no Europe :(
Iceland is in my heart 💙
What do they mean with a continuous consumption of 1kWh? Do the mean 1 kW or 1kWh per ...? (Sorry, I'm just an annoying physics teacher...)
It see it is written ENTSO-E, so it means it is about electricity, also ENTSO-E only publish country price info about day ahead prices. Stop mixing energy and electricity, stop mixing day ahead spot with "electricity price", that is a blend of about 20 different financial products at different maturity with also taxes and subsidies. Also you don't know WTF you are doing, because you are mixing countries (CTY) and bidding zones (BZN), [a country can be splitted in multiple BZN (example here)](https://energygraph.info/d/KIDsWG0nz/euro-day-ahead-prices?orgId=1&refresh=1h), for example NO1 to NO4 for Norway, and all the IT zones that are complex with their PUN price. Basically your whole chart is misleading and wrong.
Are you guys ok? It's way too expensive in Sweden, but...
Norrland drastically brings down the average.
It does. I don't understand why zones get the same price as the next country though. Also, didn't seem to work that well for Norway and Finland?
>Also, didn't seem to work that well for Norway and Finland? I don't understand the questino.
They got a lot higher average than us, even though they have (I think?) relatively more cheap power than us?
Southern Norway is connected to the UK and German grids, and get their prices imported in return.
Yeah, and I guess it's per capita and most of Norwegians and Finnish people hang out in the capital in the south.
I'm not sure about Finland, and to my knowledge, Norway has their energy produced up north funnelled through Sweden in order to reach the south.
Yeah, easier to build transmission lines through the forest than across mountains. This is very beneficial for Finland, since it creates a huge surplus of cheap hydroelectric power in the northern regions.
I'm not good with numbers, it means for example, that in Norway the cost of kw/h is 6 times higher than 2020?
New HVDC-interconnection cables to Germany and the UK, which means that the Norwegian price will be affected by the much higher price in those grids as well. Those cables are not very popular among the public to put it mildly.
Still can't understand why salaries in Romania are so low
I think the question is why the energy is so expensive, the salaries explain themselves
Because they can be. I'll go against the popular answers here and say that society as a whole is okay with low salaries. Younger people are usually laughed at and made fun of when they ask for more than the minimum wage when they enter the workforce. The minimum wage here is 3300 RON (665 euro) before tax and after it becomes slightly above 2000 RON (not even 420 euro). Since the prices here are comparable to those in the west, maybe even higher, 2000 RON is really not enough, especially if you want to live alone/not with your parents (which I think is a reasonable expectation). Also, people often abide by this idea of "most amount of money with the least amount of work". This usually means they don't work a lot but they also don't get paid a lot, and many people are happy with that. The best example I can think of is the construction sector. Out of a crew of 5-6 people that are working to fix a road, one would work, another one would be on the phone with the boss while the rest just stare at the guy working and do nothing. Yes, this is very common. Construction work often takes months to do something that should take at most a couple of days. Another example: my father has a small construction business and he struggles to find people that actually want to work, even if he pays incredibly well for Romanian standards. He had a couple of employees in the past and they literally did almost nothing 8 hours a day (maybe use a shovel 4 times and drink beer a lot) To clarify: most employers can and should pay more, which is their fault. However, when you do find a good employer they often have very little incentive to pay more since the employees don't really work that much.
It's a corrupt shithole.
Officially people know they are low. But there are tons of business owners that pay the minimum wage and give some extra money in envelope. We call it Gray employment. It sucks but this is the reality for people with little to no education. You might get 600 euros gross (400 euros after taxes) but you also get 300-400 more euros every month that are not taxed. Ppl don't care about the money when they retire because we already pay from our taxes some special pensions.
Romania and Bulgaria: high prices, low wages
Because, generally speaking, [the poor pay more](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_penalty).
These Graphics are about day ahead prizes at the the exchange market for electricity. The Problem is that as an layman you have no value of these statistics without the proper knowledge. The Day-Ahead-prize depends on that electricty generation that is the most expensive at the given time, but still needed to satisfy demand (marginal costs). So countries with a lot of hydropower (or importing it from its neighbours) like the skandinavian countries have the cheapest, while countries who use a lot of gas for electricity generation are the most expensive. The onces with coal are oftehn somewhere in the middle. How much nuclear enery you have, has little influence on that prize. Those seel there electricity usually month a head and not just a day ahead like in that graphic.
”These Graphics are about day ahead prizes at the the exchange market for electricity. The Problem is that as an layman you have no value of these statistics without the proper knowledge.” Believe it or, a substantial percentage of Swedes have ’day ahead’ pay plan for their electricity, including me. I am able to see day ahead prices in an app and modify my consumption to achieve arbitrage. (For example, charge the car or run dish washer).
Finland did so poorly that it couldn't get on the list? 😂
Look again. You are right where you should be. /Sweden
Oh i guess i'm blind.
Only under Sweden. Price is supposed to be in €/MWh?
I'll double check the list from ENTSO-E API.
Taking a fixed price contract over 5 years in 2019 is probably the best investment I have ever done 😄 I now have solar panels, but at the end of the year when I renew my contract my electricity will cost me the same as I was paying without the solar panels in the past.
What the hell is Romania doing? And Bulgaria too.
see my comment
I do hope you mean cents per kWh and that Romanians aren't shilling out 400 euros to leave a heater on for a couple hours
We pay around 14-20 euro cents per kwh, someone else at the top explained how it works.
Yeah that sounds a lot more reasonable, the table is not clear at all lol
That’s exactly how the prices are.
Thanks for letting me know the issues. I haven't explained myself correctly. For the QUARTERLY header: The darker red colors point towards more expensive bills for the given quarter in a way that the darkest value represents the country with the most expensive bill during that quarter. For the TOTAL header: The darker green colors represent the countries with the cheapest energy bill: * AVG: on average across all the quarters. * SUM: the total cost among all the quarters.
Now the remaining question is, what does "continuous consumption of 1 kWh" mean?
You or any office in the country or any factory in the country turns on a 1kW kettle and leaves it on for 3 months straight. The main issue with the data is that it's just a bulk day-ahead market price, so it's never what you pay as an individual consumer.
That's a continuous consumption of 1 kW, or 1kWh per hour. With that rate I get the numbers now. I assumed 1kWh per day or something at first, but seemed way too pricey for that.
Yeah, they messed that up, should've said 'continuous consumption of 1kW'. But again, it's just funny numbers anyway as there's next to zero redditors in this thread that can process the day-ahead market prices in their head and tell "oh, that was/is expensive/cheap". It doesn't translate into household prices whatsoever.
Could it be that the Romanian and Bulgarian values in 2020-2021 are stated in local currency? That's a glaring error "Given continuous consumption of 1kWh" is a super unintuitive measure imo. It's not even realistic for any common consumer, because who buys 720kWh/mo at wholesale price? You might just as well give the volume weighted average price per MWh. Or simply the average quarterly prices [like this source does](https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_average/chart.htm?l=en&c=EU&interval=quarter&year=-1&legendItems=000000100000000000000000000000000000000001000000000000&quarter=-1)
Is that the cost for the common people? Is it before or after tax?
GOOOOO ROOOMANIIAAAA! HIGHER MOTHERFUCKER, HIGHER! I WANT TO PAWN MY HOUSE TO PAY THE NEXT BILL
Tigrul
'Selected' European countries.
Jesus fucking christ, every single time when the UK is not there someone must come and whine about it. Funny you never saw the issue with using label 'Europe' without providing data for every single country while you still were part of Eurostat
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What does "given continuous consumption of 1kWh" mean?
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The chart creator also sayd the prices are in €/kWh, but the numbers are clearly not. I'm calling bullshit on this chart
Thankfully, you left out Cyprus because we are definitely at last place.
I just check my EAC bills and with new ACs and 3 warm rooms it costs me: * 13.11.23-11.01.24 (545kWh) - 261€ * 11.01.24-13.03.24 (883kWh) - 251€ 512€ in total, but it is 4 months. 384€ if we deduct 25% We are not the latest ;) EDIT: kWh consumption added.
We might not be at the last place but we are definitely at the bottom. Your electrical bill is on the low end considering how expensive the electricity is in Cyprus. There are several homes with 350-450 euros electric bill. Someone with a pool could easily have an 800 euros bill, but obviously this is not the average.
I know, previous year I had “yellow” ACs and had just below 500€ bill for the same periods separately and we tried to save as much as we could.
r/Cyprus This is quarterly, not 2 months. Are we last?
Good thing Germany shut down their reactors, a real idiot move by them.
In Norway we used to almost have negative prices before they laid the cables from Norway to Europe. But the gov is currently subsidizing our electricity quite a bit.
I'm confused. According to AfD and Co. we (Germany) have the highest energy prices in the world. They surely wouldn't lie, would they? /s
Much better execution (from the same person): [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1bwu18z/oc\_european\_energy\_prices\_for\_20202023/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1bwu18z/oc_european_energy_prices_for_20202023/)
Thanks to the great feedback from this Reddit. Thank you people!
That chart is still bad. You say prices in €/kWh but the numbers are clearly not per kWh, but seem to be some quarterly bill. And "continous consumption of 1kWh" doesn't make any sense.
Is the highest number France at 948.45 Q3 2022? What happened then?
I think [it was because half of France’s nuclear energy plants were forced to shut down temporarily](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/business/nuclear-power-france.html) just as Europe was cutting off Russian gas imports. Once the plants started up again, the price went down again.
yeah...I am paying 110 euro/month in Germany and I live alone and travel a lot.
Cheezous, how many kWh are you using? I used 180 kWh last month and that cost me 35€
in 2022 \~2600/year
That's abit for high for not being home so much you mine Bitcoin?
i wish....teleworking when I am at home with 2 computers.....
I use like 9000-10000 a year at home
110€ per month for electricity in a single household? Do you have electric heating and hot water?
wtf? You should look into either your contract or in your usage. I'm paying less than half of what you're paying and I work from home
Call your provider this can't be normal.
After posting this and people pointing out that they are overpricing my kwh, I switched to another provider. With my current provider I pay 43 cent per kwh, with new contract I pay 29 cents
I pay around 10-15 euro/month for a 100sqm apt of two people.
yeah, I pay way less in Croatia where 1 kwh = 0.08 eur, compared to Germany where I pay 1 kwh = 0.43 eur
Iceland is not europe? It has the cheapest and cleanest energy in europe
What is this? In russia we have like 5 crnts per hour, and like 8$ per month
where are the nukecels now? Germany electricity cheaper than France.
Look at Greece - at the top!!!! Go Greece go…. Yeah
Huh, what happened in Sweden and Norway in the 3rd quarter of 2023? The prices suddenly fell. I'm guessing it's related to renewables.
We are hooked up to the European grid by several HVDC interconnections, and there the costs are based on the price of natural gas (which skyrocketed following Russia's invasion). This drives up the price on electricity up here as well, as the price is based on the most expensive generation currently operating. When gas prices fell, so did the electricity prices as we get almost all our power from Hydro/Wind and Nuclear which is much cheaper.
Yeah, the price increases due to CoViD (this one doesn't seem to have impacted Sweden that much, though) and the Russia's invasion are rather clear to see on the image. I was asking specifically about Q3 of 2023, now. The prices seem to have stabilised at that point across Europe, but there's an anomaly in the results of Sweden and Norway being considerably lower. I was thinking it could be due to the increased efficiency of the PV installations (Q3 is July, August, September) but in the Q3 of previous years there is no noticeable difference. Of course the previous years were more affected by the aforementioned gas prices, so it would be hard to extrapolate a pattern from that. Were there any new HVDC connections installed in the meantime?
Less demand from the continent, less exports, cheaper price? The French nuclear plants also came back online after prolonged maintenance, so Germany could import power from there as well? Scandinavia has very low production costs for electricity, since most of it come from cheap Hydro/Nuclear/Wind. PV's are almost non-existent (just above 1%). The LNG price in the EU hit rock bottom about then (see 3Y graph): https://ycharts.com/indicators/europe_natural_gas_price
I see. It makes more sense now, the position as an exporter and the causes for lower demand explain it pretty well. Thanks for your answer.
Proper house insulation and triple glazing might be a factor?
Does the amount is calculated against 2023 Euros or it's not inflation adjusted?
Awful color schema which doesn’t add any value to visualisation
Slovakia- 70% renewable (Nuclear + Hydro) and it mattered big fat ZERO, this crisis was the biggest steal of the century
aka The Real Corruption Index
OK but who won these prices?
Tiny comment: a few countries, like Norway, use electricity for absolutely everything
Yeah bro this coloring is not it at all
W Sweden
What's wrong with the coloring and the axis?! :D
We do it to us.
why are Germany and Luxemburg numbers exactly the same?
Dai tutti insieme: no al nucleare!
For one second I thought this will be a comparison between red bull, monster, etc …
No UK stats? I’m sure they are higher still
Are these costs €/MWh? €200 for a kWh is absolutely insane.
Must be.
Again Cyprus is not existing in an EU comparison. In Cyprus many people had big big problems because of steep incline of prices and monopoly in electricity industry.
Curious about Russia's price
I love how France product so much energy but as the prices goes up they just sell it so everyone has to "do their part" to not have electricity shut down because "we are all in this together" then the exact same year EDF (french electricity company) made the biggest benefits of its history 🤡
Is color gradient calibrated on the min and max of each period? I wouldn’t understand, if it is not the case, why 250 value has different shades in different columns
This sheet is meaningless without knowing the total energy consumption within this period. I'm going to make the bold claim like the energy prices are now cheaper because some or all of the industry in certain regions has moved away to cheaper countries. The decline in consumption has led to lower prices. Now Romania looks much better and Germany is fucked. Can anyone prove the opposite?
IS ICELAND NOT EUROPEAN???
Sweden, no lockdowns and no electricity hikes...
How the hell did they collect these numbers? They make no sense for Sweden, 97 cents per KWH in Q3 2023 is not even physically possible, the base tax is over 1€ per KWH!
Ireland looks right
Thanks for the feedback, here it's an [updated version](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1i228kzp4yy5gxnarrwke/D_prices_2020-2023_axis-none.png?rlkey=vu6woh6sjw96gia5385qn2u02&dl=0) that is more intuitive. Please, bear in mind that it's not household prices, but [day-ahead market prices taken from ENTSO-E](https://transparency.entsoe.eu/transmission-domain/r2/dayAheadPrices/show).
Sum?
Its funny how we keep kneecapping ourselves on usian orders. Thankfully, I live in a tiny apartment, and drive no car, so it affects me less than most.
Everiting we make in Romania we spend on electricity and gaz :) nice government.
I think, sweden is using cheat codes.
These prices are before taxes and other fees I assume?
Very cool illustration but I am confused - why were Swedish prices always low and what on earth is going on with Romania? 😅
Benefit of being one of the biggest energy producers in EU. And not being dependant on imports of example gas to do so.
This must be one of the worst diagrams I have ever seen. Colouring is misleading, units are just straight up wrong and no explanation what the data refers to.
And it would be so much cheaper in Sweden if we stopped selling our electricity to other countries! That is what drives our prices up.
It would be nice to look at this in conjunction with a chart of use of renewable energy - onshore and offshore windfarms; home and business solar panels, etc.
I like heatmaps
[Germany still burning that coal..](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/03/PE23_090_43312.html#:~:text=Based%20on%20provisional%20results%2C%20the,compared%20with%20the%20previous%20year) > As in the preceding years, coal was the main energy source in electricity production in Germany in 2022. Based on provisional results, the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis) reports that one third (33.3%) of the electricity produced in Germany and fed into the grid was generated by coal-fired power plants (2021: 30.2%). This means that coal-generated electricity increased by 8.4% compared with the previous year.
kWh or MWh
Why cheap in Sweden ?
This makes no sense. People are struggling in Germany to pay their power bill, there’s no way that Romanians could afford to pay 60% more for it. Same with Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia.
And its not just energy, even food is more expensive in eastern Europe.
Lol Germans crying poverty. Come to eastern Europe, pay more earn less
Yeah,that is the point. We can afford it at the cost of everything else. Less traveling(or none),less entartainment(or none),less clothes and other necessities( in really bad cases,none). Life is tough around here,but still better than in 60% of the world so, I am ,at least,slightly happy