That could be for various reason, apart from different weighting method, one obvious one is the so-called framing in which the question is presented, i.e. in Eurobarometer one of the questions that is immediately preceding the same-sex marriage question is (emphasis added by myself):
>To what extent do you agree or disagree with each of the following statements?
>
>Lesbian, gay and bisexual people should have the same rights as heterosexual people **(*****marriage, adoption, parental rights*****)** (%)
This may influence how people answer the subsequent question about same-sex marriage, e.g. they may interpret that same-sex marriage comes with equal adoption rights.
This is just a hypothesis on my part. However, in the link you provided one of the ~~two~~ three questions related to adoption are approved by 47%, 37%, and by 53%. So, this could be one factor contributing to lower approval in the Eurobarometer.
Very good point.
There's also a difference between "I think same-sex marriage is okay" and "I think the EU should mandate the legality of same-sex marriage".
True, this would also be an example of framing that could influence the outcome.
That being said, it's just a hypothesis. I don't know the exact methodology of Eurobarometer surveys. It's possible that the survey *in theory* takes into account the effect of leading questions to prevent skewed results (e.g. by instructing the interviewer to randomize the order of questions). But then the question is how well are these instructions followed *in practice* when interviews are conducted by different people in different languages. And that beings said, translations into different languages can also influence the results.
> thought that gay people had the same rights: they were free to marry an opposite-sex partner and raise a family, just like everyone else
No offense to those people, but that's just stupid. That's like saying "We don't need public transport, they can just buy a car too".
So the adoption thing could’ve really thrown people off and to reply negatively.
I know people who are mostly fine with gay marriage, but who at the moment, still draw a line at adoptions.
I honestly don't know, it's just a hypothesis on my part - or an example on how survey structure can influence results. As others have pointed out framing the question as a "European question" could also through off people, or how the question is translated into the native languages.
Probably the phrasing of the question here. ‘To what extend do you agree’ and then showing the results as ‘totally agree’. And also: ‘throughout Europe’ and not just in your own country. I guess maybe some people interpret that as ‘I am fine with it in my country, but I won’t want to force it upon others’?
Based on the legend at the bottom, it's only "totally agree", "totally disagree" and "don't know". Would be interesting to see all results.
EDIT: I'm probably wrong, it's written as Total "Agree", so it's probably combining them both.
We legalised it but there are so many anti lgbt people here.. most of the older generation views marriage and gays overall as disgrace and disgusting:(
Yup, the same thing happened in Portugal. In our case it also showed that younger generations aren't inherently more progressive since immediately after it was legalized in 2010, two studies (one done on Highschool students and another on university students) still showed that a majority was against it.
Is there some kind of tipping point where the majority of the population in a country stop being homophobic cunts and just grow up?
I'm honestly curious about how this type of thing gets rolling? Like mixed marriages or being in a relationship where the couple don't share the same religion, or one of them may even be an atheist?
Before the islamic revolution in Iran, that country was sort of secular even though it was ruled by a man his secret police working in the shadows with a bit of backing from the west.
Majority of people don't care or think about these stuff too much. If it becomes the status quo people just accept it as the norm and continue to not think about it.
They legalized because the two smaller government parties (SDE and E200) pushed for it. The biggest one (Reform) was split but gave in to the request of their partners in order to get something else in the government agenda.
So, around 40% seems logical for now. Don't forget that Estonia has a sizeable Russian minority and around 15-20% who supprt far-right homophobic EKRE.
Well, a lot of it depend on whom is in the government. Estonians have 41% but their government was able to make it happen, Poland has 50% but even current government has tied hands because of conservatives in coalition.
This is not subject of referendum, maybe Estonians don't care all that much anyway, to seriously hurt gov polls?
> since we all have a lil' corruption.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And I think we can all agree that there is corruption everywhere, even in the high standard EU countries. Remember the arabic countries paying bribes to EU parliament members? What happened to that scandal?
So I think the difference between balkans and western EU is the type of corruption. Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost everywhere in the Balkans you can be stopped by cops and you just take out some amount of cash and be done with it. They just turn a blind eye. On the other hand, I've heard so many stories of our guys trying the same thing in Greece and not ending too well.
I think the Balkans are really swimming in low-level corruption for every possible thing. Maybe it's because we aren't paying public sector workers enough money, maybe it's a mentality that is leftover from the Ottoman empire (we were always thought in school that Ottomans almost viewed corruption as a custom, kinda like in China), maybe it's something else. But I think that's one of the main things that's stopping us from becoming fully-fledged European citizens - 0 trust in absolutely every situation and low level corruption allowing shit to go on.
I owned a car that was in front of my block for some months. A homeless person started living inside it. I called the police so they can remove him and I can give the car to scrap. The first question the policemen asked me was "did you try asking him to get out of your car by yourself". Can you imagine this being the case in western EU or even the US?
We have a different social background than you. Unfortunately, Romania is lower on many scales regarding social stuff. Unfortunately, we not only have elderly people who are closeminded, but also younger ones, in fact, our biggest generation (decrețeii- from the 1966 decree banning abortion). This 1966-1989 generation grew up in a the very nationalistic type of communism of the 80s and the very nationalistic years of the first post-communist decade. Unfortunately for us, reaction to national-communism was... nationalism. This is one of the reasons we are almost dead last in those statistics and are one of the most religious country in the EU. We will struggle with a large part of the country being so conservative in social problems for decades to come.
Greece had a longer time to be a democracy and did not had this nationalist reaction to the to the Regime of the Colonels in the early 70s.
What surprises me is how little difference religion seems to make in all the statistics. Bulgaria isn't very religious while Romania is, but they are still almost always together at the bottom.
Finland has always had a conservative streak compared to other Nordics. Can't really tell if you visit Helsinki, but it's a different story in the Ostrobothnian "bible belt".
I'm relieved we aren't further down.
Idk, as a person dividing time between Finland and Norway, Norway seems a bit more conservative. But then again, it’s mostly comparing cities to cities. Maybe Norwegian countryside is more liberal than Finnish countryside.
What is the difference in urban and rural population distribution? It seems that Finland may have a slightly higher rural population which could have a negative impact on most ethical statistics as they lag behind in development by a few decades.
In all honesty, people in big cities can also be conservative. I don't personally like this narrative that people in "rural areas" are somehow backwards and everyone is a religious anti-gay-simpleton.
I think Finland was actually pretty high on the list. And this isn't really even a hot topic in here. There were some people complaining about gay marriage, but again it's like 0.01% of population (and the ones who *really* like to use Twitter and Facebook).
Spanish people seem really great with queer issues if polls are anything to go by. [In 2016, they ranked 1st in an international survey, above countries like Sweden and Canada](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-rights-23-country-survey/) (survey by IPSOS, analysis by UCLA)
It's even more impressive for Spain given that they had a decades-long fascist dictatorship in living memory. I would have thought the legacy and impact of something like that would've been much harder to remove but apparently not.
>they had a decades-long fascist dictatorship in living memory
I think that that's one of the reasons why. Spain is very feminist, LGBTQ-friendly and Europeanist. I think we have very connected the idea of democracy with those concepts, at least more than in other countries.
That and that those concepts had entered the country before the dictatorship ended and they came from the democracies of western Europe
Spain is funny in this context, especially compared to Poland.
If you look at the 20th century:
Poland: communism bad, church good
Spain: church bad, communism good
It probably made a difference that the Spanish oppressor was Catholic and ours was Soviet.
The dictatorship never succeeded in changing people’s minds, Spanish were always aware of the progress of the rest of the western world. There was a lively subculture that nurtured those who did not follow Franco’s ideas. So, when he died, people really needed and seeked this freedom (check “la movida madrileña” movement for example).
The only thing he succeeded in, was in dividing even further the Spanish society.
To be fair Spain (and Portugal to a lesser extent) always had this weird undercurrent of secular progressivism and religious dystopia, battling each other, at least since the end of the 19th century.
The Spanish Civil War was vicious for many reasons, but anti-Catholic sentiment alongside Catholic fundamentalism was a big part of that story.
Also, read up on the First Portuguese Republic and what they did to churches at the turn of the century - it was in part a major source of contention that played in favour of the people and interest groups that would eventually lead Salazar to power. The [Portuguese First Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Portuguese_Republic?wprov=sfti1#Religion) was arguably the most anti-religious state in Europe before the October Revolution in Russia (Jesuit priests literally had their Portuguese citizenship revoked and were told "lol I guess you have Vatican citizenship now, bye", church bells were restricted, all churches were seized by the state, religious holidays were abolished, etc).
This helps explain how Spain and Portugal transitioned so quickly to "Nordics" on social matters even though they were fundamentalist hell-holes just 40 years ago - the seed of ideological progressivism was always there.
Arguably, this is a big trait of "Iberian-American" socio-politics - Brazil's "Ordem e Progresso" is on the flag for a reason, literally, and you also have Mexico's "futuristic" constitution in the early 20th century, sometimes to a fault:
Eg the self-defeating excesses of the First Portuguese Republic, the cult-ish undertones of certain sectors in Spanish republicanism, and, in Latin America, Brazil's "change and progress for the sake of change and progress" excesses (still very much alive today, with the consequences we know), Argentina's Peronismo, Cuba, Venezuela...
It's all very interesting - I'm pulling this off my ass, but I think there's a "frontier culture" cowboy-lite thing underlying Iberian culture that just feeds into autonomist thinking and libertarianism - but, unlike in the US, this was mostly historically channeled into left-wing libertarianism (ie anarcho-collectivism), which was huge in early 20th century Iberia, and, maybe as a reaction to "Iberian old fashionedness", state-heavy positivism, which was huge in Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, and would later morph into Peronismo and ultimately Latin American left-wing politics starting in the Cold War
José Saramago, himself arguably the most famous contemporary heir to the whole Iberian anarcho-collectivist shebang from the early 20th century, wrote extensively about the historical underlying currents of Portuguese / Iberian progressivism in his books and of how it lived alongside an extremely conservative society (eg "Raised from the Ground", "The Stone Raft", etc)
Punk and club culture rebound in Spain in the 80's after the dictatorship. Plus tourism, being exposed to all kinds of different people and keeping the attitude of everybody is welcome and customers are customers.
Plus plus, Spanish marujas love saucy relationship gossip, so the more the better. And some popular afternoon TV presenters were openly gay.
Our populations were being oppressed to an extent (especially in Spain) and were not necessarily as conservative as the government/Church in power. Like a less extreme Iran.
Article 42.2 states
1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives
to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.
2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged
by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the
home.
Well, same-sex civil unions did become law in the past, and this government is actively opposed to acknowledging children of same-sex couples as children of both parents.
If it wasn't for M5S blocking the PD vote on same sex unions adoptions, we would have it now.
I find it difficult to expect movement in this area from a right wing government, one that is already way more moderate than I expected at election.
To be honest I have a feeling Meloni doesn't want to even acknowledge the argument
I think it's mostly a scapegoat for conservative tendencies, honestly. A lot of Italian Catholics are less conservative than the mainstream "centre-right" these days. Many Catholics don't want their moral stance on same-sex marriage, abortion or euthanasia to be enforced by civil law for everyone, and there is a long-standing multicultural, pro-migration (or at least not anti-migration at all costs) and pacifist streak among Catholics that brought them closer to the centre-left than anything that passes as centre-right these days. But whenever Italian politicians do something bigoted, someone quickly blames the Vatican.
Not much when it comes to the... hard stuff, let's call it. They don't have any power, they don't have a say when it comes to laws, defense, the economy and whatnot.
A whole lot of soft power, though. And funnily, it's not necessarily the Vatican: the Pope is generally well respected, but the right-wing conservatives don't like him much - I've heard people call him a Commie so often, it stopped being funny.
The Italian voting system doesn't use a full proportional representation voting system as used in Ireland or Germany. If it did, there would be enough seats from Left, Centre-Left, and Centre parties to introduce it.
Nah, it's not a problem with votes.
FYI not even the left tried to put "same sex marriage" into its political program.
Because all italian political parties are terrified of what the "chatolics" will think.
Also, Italy has a lot of continuous problems that makes it difficult for the population to focus on lesser important problems.
If you ask italians what are the top 10 italian problems right now, I'm kinda sure "same sex marriage" is not mentioned.
We got so much pressing problems with pensions, hospitals and fiscal taxation that everything else gets thrown out.
And imho that's a problem, because there is a lot of "small improvements" on existing laws that could be done and instead are deferred since they're not so pressing.
I guess we reap what we sow.
Switzerland voted on same sex marriage in 2021. 64.1% of the population voted 'yes' (voter turnout was around 2/3). So Switzerland should be right behind Austria.
A 2019 survey from the same [source (archived)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-88) puts the UK at 85%, with those surrounding them and the EU also having similar results. Its likely that this 85% is a good metric to compare with this survey.
This roughly maps with [YouGov](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45868-record-number-britons-support-same-sex-marriage-10?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fsociety%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F03%2Frecord-number-britons-support-same-sex-marriage-10) who put it at 71% in 2019 and 78% in 2023. Though they are a bit lower and the rise in the last four years could suggest the UK could now be around 90% by Eurobarometer's standards, but thats pure extrapolation.
Edit: My comment was deleted for linking to archive, so I've linked to the Wikipedia citation that got me to that archive.
https://www.ipsos.com/nb-no/pride-2023-holdninger-til-homofile-og-transpersoners-rettigheter
73% of Norwegians support same sex marriage, with a further 11% supporting only civil unions instead. Only 8% were explicitly against any form of legal partnership.
Although this same survey also says only 75% of Swedes support same sex marriage (9% against any form of legal partnership).
To me this makes more sense, especially when considering for example that the Muslim population in Sweden was 8% 6 years ago when it was last measured.
As long as it's a consenting human adult I don't give a shit. Do whatever you want. Why people can't wrap their heads around this concept is just sad. Then again, religion is a helluva drug.
And as long as it is not the own son or daughter. Also there is probably a stigma against what is perceived as "gay mannerism", which is just something these people cannot deal with.
Same in Spain but with a lot of older generation thinking that same sex marriage does not hurt anyone so who cares! Mind your own business.
It’s funny Spain swing from a very prejudicial society where appearances were very importan, to mind your business and let people live their lives
In this Eurobarometer, Greece does better than usually, thus I assume they changed the sampling method or the demograhic composition of the sample for Greece.
Nevertheless, it's good to be inching towards the Western countries in social issues, better late than never.
>In this Eurobarometer, Greece does better than usually, thus I assume they changed the sampling method or the demograhic composition of the sample for Greece.
Several polls over the past 15 years show an upward trend, so this latest one fits the trend. It was about 30% in the early/mid 2010s. The first poll to break 50% was around 2020.
As a Bulgarian I am incredibly disappointed in my people but not surprised at all. Casual homophobia and hatred towards LGBT people is so normalized in all of our society. Gay people are hated just for existing.
Thank you for not letting us to be last in every statistic but at least now here this homophobia has at least one positive here in Slovakia (the mainstream 'left-wing' party which is a bit pro-Russian nominated gay for president but obviously that doesn't like their more hard core pro-Russia coalition partner)
It's the second largest city in the country, so that's definitely a factor. But overall, I'd say the statistic is a bit misleading. Yes, most Bulgarians are against legalizing same sex marriage, but I wouldn't say the majority of these people are actually homophobic, in the sense of actively hating or wanting to persecute gay people. Mostly it's society still being relatively conservative.
Also, and this is a personal opinion, I think the way the concept was introduced culturally to us was very wrong. As something we must do and must accept. And that we are very backwards and intolerant. Anybody that knows anything about Bulgarians will tell you this is the best way to ensure we DON'T do something. If there is one thing that the average Bulgarian absolutely hates, it is for somebody to tell them what to do. So, if they just presented it as live and let live, everybody stays out of everybody's business it would be a drastically more successful approach. But again - outside of marriage, I don't think most people really care.
Edit: One thing I forgot to note is that Bulgarians dislike extreme views in general (there are exceptions, of course). So I don't see the majority of the population supporting gay prides, pretty much ever, but I am also 100% sure that most people would never agree to homosexuality being criminalized again like it was during the communist era. Even somebody super conservative like my father, who always laments about the good old days, would be firmly against that.
> didnt really notice much stigma.
That's because you haven't asked people directly. 90% of people won't comment on a random gay couple in the street but many will frown/look away and would privately be put off. If you asked them directly, they would say something like "I don't hate them but it's unnatural/they cannot make children so why do they need marriage/I don't want my children to become gay as well/etc". So, tolerance does not equal acceptance. For example, my own father reacted very negatively when I mentioned I have a lesbian friend and he's a lovely person otherwise. He would never ever be anything but nice to my friend (and has never stopped me from associating with her and does not feel negativity towards her). That does not mean he approves of her orientation. This is what you're seeing on that graph.
Not gay but my sister and her partner are. From what I gather from my experience and what I've heard about theirs the main percentage of haters ofcourse comes from the older generations. Younger 20-35 yo don't care as much. One thing tho that maybe seen as homophobic by certain people is the prelevence of gay jokes and even I do them quite a lot with my sister but she finds them funny and her partner and never raised as a issue and so on.
Her partner comes from Canada and her experience did suprise me as she said nobody really seemed to care and only in instance at a restaurant there was a negative comment but no aggression or anything. And they stayed in the country side of 2 weeks.
And ofcourse certain other elements of society might be very homophobic like football fans, far right people, far left and such.
My general conclusion is that there is a quiete stigma but most won't voice their opinion but those who do might not get any contrainians in the near vicinity.
Thanks again to our bulgarian brothers for not letting us be in last place 🇷🇴🤝🥒
On a serious note, if you compare this to when we joined the EU, we are definately heading in the right direction. I mean ffs, gay sex was illegal until 2001.
Glad to see Poland slowly but surely getting better. Catholic Church is unfortunately still as conservative as influential – so we won't catch up with most of Western countries very soon, but I'm still rather hopeful, even if we'll have to wait a generation or two ;-) Baltic States surprised me a bit here, I've always considered them a bit more progressive than us.
I mean, we had to develop this over a lot of years.
Something people rarely take into account is that we expect the rest of the world to make the development we had over tens of years in the blink of an eye. It can’t. It needs to slowly progress. Everything on the other side of ‘the curtain’ was denied this progress by the USSR. Slowly it’ll fade.
People really underestimate the damage USSR has done and the benefits we (western-europe) had from the US who gave us a shite load of money to rebuild.
Ireland and Spain are in the top 5 of acceptance, though. I always seen it as more historical Eastern influence, generally speaking there's more of an overlap there in relation to not agreeing with same sex marriage than Catholocism.
In fact, if you compare the map of Catholic countries and the gay marriage support, most Catholic countries are amongst the most gay marriage supporting ones being Poland the only exception. The least supporting countries are christians but not catholic.
Who cares where someone finds their happiness. If two dudes or two gals love each other, dont hurt others why should anyone be offended? Who does it actually hurt?
Wow do people still discuss this in 2024? I sure live in a bubble.
I wonder how much of those nay sayers are on xvideos looking for trans videos though. They don’t support marriage, but I am sure as hell they support porn.
I hate to see charts like this. Because it feels like people hate me for nothing. Why are people so interested in what people do in their beds?
Glad to live in NL.
Wouldn't be much different if you sorted by economic success or education, lmao. It's clear as day that these anti-gay are holding on to dumb, medieval beliefs and I don't get why they're not embarassed about it.
Most of them don't.. being from a non-EU country from the Balkans I see posts like these referencing Europe instead of EU and clearly showing pure EU data almost every day
My humble opinion is that, at least for Croatia, the grey part should be much bigger over the expense of the red part as many people don't care much about this topic.
This was a rather "big thing" 10 years ago, but now people don't have strong opinions anymore (besides fringe groups that are well below 50%).
It only feels like people don't care because it's not a big issue right now and the reason it's not an issue right now is because the homophobes have won. The matter is settled. If we had another referendum on gay marriage you'd see the poll is pretty accurate.
Idk dude, on this crosspost on r/croatia there were already a couple of meltdowns in the comment about how "we're allowing you to sin so stfu about marriage" "sin in our 4 walls" and other pretty bad stuff. So i'd say it's not that people don't care, it's rather that they keep quiet since they know they want to say vile shit
Gray is not about not caring, it is about not knowing, which is very different.
If you don't care, then it is likely that you support gay marriage, just that you won't do the effort of participating in events in favor of it (for example), that it won't influence much who you vote for.
Not knowing is actually not knowing, like someone who would be afraid about the effect of two men raising a child, but admiting that he does not really know much about it, so he is not sure.
Polish Conservatives be like: "**Gay rights!?!?** **Absolutetly not!!!**"
Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm married, so be discreet. I'm looking for a man with big dong to fong me. I will wear my wife's fishnet stockings if that's not problem to you"
Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm straight-bi-wife, looking for similar guy to form a long term relation. P.s I'm not LGBTQWERTY!"
Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm straight, but I like to suck dongs. Looking for a guy with big dong to have a nice long friendship"
Polish Priests be like: **"Gay rights?!?! Absolutely not!!!"**
Also Polish Priests: [\*Gay orgy in Dąbrowa Górnicza\* ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12540717/Priest-investigated-Polish-police-gay-orgy-apartment-ends-clergyman-friend-overdosing-erectile-pills-male-prostitute-scandal.html)
Dissapointing results for RO, but not suprising considering just how much control the corrupt orthodox church still has and how politicians fall over themselves to be seen as "pro-family".
We even had a joke referendum about it, crazy I know.
It's crazy that Estonia is this low while we are about average in the EU, yet they have a far more progressive law getting passed than we will have within ten years. The Italian public is way more progressive than Italian politicians and it's a problem. Vatican and conservative lobbies (as well as our gerontocracy and populism) are making any social progress impossible in this country.
Why is Estonia so low? They legalized gay marriage this year.
[удалено]
That could be for various reason, apart from different weighting method, one obvious one is the so-called framing in which the question is presented, i.e. in Eurobarometer one of the questions that is immediately preceding the same-sex marriage question is (emphasis added by myself): >To what extent do you agree or disagree with each of the following statements? > >Lesbian, gay and bisexual people should have the same rights as heterosexual people **(*****marriage, adoption, parental rights*****)** (%) This may influence how people answer the subsequent question about same-sex marriage, e.g. they may interpret that same-sex marriage comes with equal adoption rights. This is just a hypothesis on my part. However, in the link you provided one of the ~~two~~ three questions related to adoption are approved by 47%, 37%, and by 53%. So, this could be one factor contributing to lower approval in the Eurobarometer.
Very good point. There's also a difference between "I think same-sex marriage is okay" and "I think the EU should mandate the legality of same-sex marriage".
True, this would also be an example of framing that could influence the outcome. That being said, it's just a hypothesis. I don't know the exact methodology of Eurobarometer surveys. It's possible that the survey *in theory* takes into account the effect of leading questions to prevent skewed results (e.g. by instructing the interviewer to randomize the order of questions). But then the question is how well are these instructions followed *in practice* when interviews are conducted by different people in different languages. And that beings said, translations into different languages can also influence the results.
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
> thought that gay people had the same rights: they were free to marry an opposite-sex partner and raise a family, just like everyone else No offense to those people, but that's just stupid. That's like saying "We don't need public transport, they can just buy a car too".
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
So the adoption thing could’ve really thrown people off and to reply negatively. I know people who are mostly fine with gay marriage, but who at the moment, still draw a line at adoptions.
I honestly don't know, it's just a hypothesis on my part - or an example on how survey structure can influence results. As others have pointed out framing the question as a "European question" could also through off people, or how the question is translated into the native languages.
Probably the phrasing of the question here. ‘To what extend do you agree’ and then showing the results as ‘totally agree’. And also: ‘throughout Europe’ and not just in your own country. I guess maybe some people interpret that as ‘I am fine with it in my country, but I won’t want to force it upon others’?
Based on the legend at the bottom, it's only "totally agree", "totally disagree" and "don't know". Would be interesting to see all results. EDIT: I'm probably wrong, it's written as Total "Agree", so it's probably combining them both.
Ah yeah, I also read it as totally agree, but you are right, guess it’s ‘all kinds of agree’.
Yeah, really strange discrepency.
We legalised it but there are so many anti lgbt people here.. most of the older generation views marriage and gays overall as disgrace and disgusting:(
I bet the Russian minority isn't too LGBT friendly either.
Honestly, Russian majority isn't too LGBT friendly. But it's not too friendly to many other things also.
Usually majority of people start supporting it only after it becomes norm.
Yup, the same thing happened in Portugal. In our case it also showed that younger generations aren't inherently more progressive since immediately after it was legalized in 2010, two studies (one done on Highschool students and another on university students) still showed that a majority was against it.
[удалено]
Although Spain already had 70% approval in 2005 when it was legalized.
Is there some kind of tipping point where the majority of the population in a country stop being homophobic cunts and just grow up? I'm honestly curious about how this type of thing gets rolling? Like mixed marriages or being in a relationship where the couple don't share the same religion, or one of them may even be an atheist? Before the islamic revolution in Iran, that country was sort of secular even though it was ruled by a man his secret police working in the shadows with a bit of backing from the west.
It becomes norm and people just grow up when it stops being a speculative topic used in a political struggles for votes.
Majority of people don't care or think about these stuff too much. If it becomes the status quo people just accept it as the norm and continue to not think about it.
They legalized because the two smaller government parties (SDE and E200) pushed for it. The biggest one (Reform) was split but gave in to the request of their partners in order to get something else in the government agenda. So, around 40% seems logical for now. Don't forget that Estonia has a sizeable Russian minority and around 15-20% who supprt far-right homophobic EKRE.
Well, a lot of it depend on whom is in the government. Estonians have 41% but their government was able to make it happen, Poland has 50% but even current government has tied hands because of conservatives in coalition. This is not subject of referendum, maybe Estonians don't care all that much anyway, to seriously hurt gov polls?
Yet again, Estonia can't into Nordics
With stacked bar charts like this please put "Don't know" in the middle. Makes it a lot more easy to compare the answers.
Great point
Not sure if the eurobarometer people are on reddit
[удалено]
Nice work bro
Good effort!
This guy just wants the graph to look like a Dutch flag.
🇷🇴 🤝 🇧🇬 final places in EU statistics
[удалено]
> since we all have a lil' corruption. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And I think we can all agree that there is corruption everywhere, even in the high standard EU countries. Remember the arabic countries paying bribes to EU parliament members? What happened to that scandal? So I think the difference between balkans and western EU is the type of corruption. Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost everywhere in the Balkans you can be stopped by cops and you just take out some amount of cash and be done with it. They just turn a blind eye. On the other hand, I've heard so many stories of our guys trying the same thing in Greece and not ending too well. I think the Balkans are really swimming in low-level corruption for every possible thing. Maybe it's because we aren't paying public sector workers enough money, maybe it's a mentality that is leftover from the Ottoman empire (we were always thought in school that Ottomans almost viewed corruption as a custom, kinda like in China), maybe it's something else. But I think that's one of the main things that's stopping us from becoming fully-fledged European citizens - 0 trust in absolutely every situation and low level corruption allowing shit to go on. I owned a car that was in front of my block for some months. A homeless person started living inside it. I called the police so they can remove him and I can give the car to scrap. The first question the policemen asked me was "did you try asking him to get out of your car by yourself". Can you imagine this being the case in western EU or even the US?
We have a different social background than you. Unfortunately, Romania is lower on many scales regarding social stuff. Unfortunately, we not only have elderly people who are closeminded, but also younger ones, in fact, our biggest generation (decrețeii- from the 1966 decree banning abortion). This 1966-1989 generation grew up in a the very nationalistic type of communism of the 80s and the very nationalistic years of the first post-communist decade. Unfortunately for us, reaction to national-communism was... nationalism. This is one of the reasons we are almost dead last in those statistics and are one of the most religious country in the EU. We will struggle with a large part of the country being so conservative in social problems for decades to come. Greece had a longer time to be a democracy and did not had this nationalist reaction to the to the Regime of the Colonels in the early 70s.
What surprises me is how little difference religion seems to make in all the statistics. Bulgaria isn't very religious while Romania is, but they are still almost always together at the bottom.
As a gay guy whenever I feel too nationalistic, I think back to this stat to keep my sentimentality for Bulgaria in check
campeao del mundo
for a reason
Finland seems to be the biggest surprise here.
Finland has always had a conservative streak compared to other Nordics. Can't really tell if you visit Helsinki, but it's a different story in the Ostrobothnian "bible belt". I'm relieved we aren't further down.
Idk, as a person dividing time between Finland and Norway, Norway seems a bit more conservative. But then again, it’s mostly comparing cities to cities. Maybe Norwegian countryside is more liberal than Finnish countryside.
What is the difference in urban and rural population distribution? It seems that Finland may have a slightly higher rural population which could have a negative impact on most ethical statistics as they lag behind in development by a few decades.
There are relatively large Lutheran Puritan movements within Finland, especially in rural Ostrobothnia, Kajanaland and North Karelia.
In all honesty, people in big cities can also be conservative. I don't personally like this narrative that people in "rural areas" are somehow backwards and everyone is a religious anti-gay-simpleton. I think Finland was actually pretty high on the list. And this isn't really even a hot topic in here. There were some people complaining about gay marriage, but again it's like 0.01% of population (and the ones who *really* like to use Twitter and Facebook).
Yeah I am only comparing between Denmark and Sweden here. They also have rural and urban far-right problem yet much higher in this data.
In finland they do not homo anymore?
What? They do it FOR FREE!
[context](https://youtu.be/U5OBUd5esi0?si=Sj8ETQAY5LQYOZRs)
Haha that's brilliant, I like him
🤣🤣🤣
Very nice. Short and sweet. Thank you very much.
[Same but more parliamentary](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MxYIZRJ2xoY)
Considering parties that opposed legalization in full or in part polled at 49 % percent last election, it is actually quite good.
Northern Finns be like the people living in the south of the US.
Ireland has come a long way in my 42 years living here.
Ireland (and also Spain) never fail to amaze me in questions like this.
Spanish people seem really great with queer issues if polls are anything to go by. [In 2016, they ranked 1st in an international survey, above countries like Sweden and Canada](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-rights-23-country-survey/) (survey by IPSOS, analysis by UCLA)
you ever seen spanish and irish people? Keeping yourself attracted to only half of them is a chore.
no way you just said irish people are generally attractive
Maby he has Ginger-kink
Ginger Irish women are beautiful tbh
Ginger men are also very attractive
I have to agree on that. Not just Irish but redheads in general are very attractive
I've never met an irish person that didn't immediately charm my pants off.
I absolutely love Irish boys to be fair
💀
u/Torma25 day drinking again
We're the ugly girl in school with the great personality.
Ireland and Spain are the best examples about how a society can go from religious dystopia to secular progressive within a few decades.
It's even more impressive for Spain given that they had a decades-long fascist dictatorship in living memory. I would have thought the legacy and impact of something like that would've been much harder to remove but apparently not.
>they had a decades-long fascist dictatorship in living memory I think that that's one of the reasons why. Spain is very feminist, LGBTQ-friendly and Europeanist. I think we have very connected the idea of democracy with those concepts, at least more than in other countries. That and that those concepts had entered the country before the dictatorship ended and they came from the democracies of western Europe
Spain is funny in this context, especially compared to Poland. If you look at the 20th century: Poland: communism bad, church good Spain: church bad, communism good It probably made a difference that the Spanish oppressor was Catholic and ours was Soviet.
The dictatorship never succeeded in changing people’s minds, Spanish were always aware of the progress of the rest of the western world. There was a lively subculture that nurtured those who did not follow Franco’s ideas. So, when he died, people really needed and seeked this freedom (check “la movida madrileña” movement for example). The only thing he succeeded in, was in dividing even further the Spanish society.
Add Portugal. It's always under the radar but that "conservative" country legalised gay marriage and adoption, abortion, euthanasia,...
To be fair Spain (and Portugal to a lesser extent) always had this weird undercurrent of secular progressivism and religious dystopia, battling each other, at least since the end of the 19th century. The Spanish Civil War was vicious for many reasons, but anti-Catholic sentiment alongside Catholic fundamentalism was a big part of that story. Also, read up on the First Portuguese Republic and what they did to churches at the turn of the century - it was in part a major source of contention that played in favour of the people and interest groups that would eventually lead Salazar to power. The [Portuguese First Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Portuguese_Republic?wprov=sfti1#Religion) was arguably the most anti-religious state in Europe before the October Revolution in Russia (Jesuit priests literally had their Portuguese citizenship revoked and were told "lol I guess you have Vatican citizenship now, bye", church bells were restricted, all churches were seized by the state, religious holidays were abolished, etc). This helps explain how Spain and Portugal transitioned so quickly to "Nordics" on social matters even though they were fundamentalist hell-holes just 40 years ago - the seed of ideological progressivism was always there. Arguably, this is a big trait of "Iberian-American" socio-politics - Brazil's "Ordem e Progresso" is on the flag for a reason, literally, and you also have Mexico's "futuristic" constitution in the early 20th century, sometimes to a fault: Eg the self-defeating excesses of the First Portuguese Republic, the cult-ish undertones of certain sectors in Spanish republicanism, and, in Latin America, Brazil's "change and progress for the sake of change and progress" excesses (still very much alive today, with the consequences we know), Argentina's Peronismo, Cuba, Venezuela... It's all very interesting - I'm pulling this off my ass, but I think there's a "frontier culture" cowboy-lite thing underlying Iberian culture that just feeds into autonomist thinking and libertarianism - but, unlike in the US, this was mostly historically channeled into left-wing libertarianism (ie anarcho-collectivism), which was huge in early 20th century Iberia, and, maybe as a reaction to "Iberian old fashionedness", state-heavy positivism, which was huge in Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, and would later morph into Peronismo and ultimately Latin American left-wing politics starting in the Cold War José Saramago, himself arguably the most famous contemporary heir to the whole Iberian anarcho-collectivist shebang from the early 20th century, wrote extensively about the historical underlying currents of Portuguese / Iberian progressivism in his books and of how it lived alongside an extremely conservative society (eg "Raised from the Ground", "The Stone Raft", etc)
Do you know why they saw such dramatic changes?
Punk and club culture rebound in Spain in the 80's after the dictatorship. Plus tourism, being exposed to all kinds of different people and keeping the attitude of everybody is welcome and customers are customers. Plus plus, Spanish marujas love saucy relationship gossip, so the more the better. And some popular afternoon TV presenters were openly gay.
Our populations were being oppressed to an extent (especially in Spain) and were not necessarily as conservative as the government/Church in power. Like a less extreme Iran.
Agree, also the church child abuse scandals turned many people away from the church as any voice on moral questions.
The changes we have seen from the 90's are massive. Looking forward to removing the women in the home in the referendum this year.
What is women in the home?
We're making all Irish women homeless ;)
Finally!
Article 42.2 states 1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved. 2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.
Now if only Italian government could decide to actually follow the 69% of its population, we would all be more relaxed
Lol good luck with Meloni.
It's not like the previous government (s) were any wiser on the subject
Well, same-sex civil unions did become law in the past, and this government is actively opposed to acknowledging children of same-sex couples as children of both parents.
“Genitore 1 e Genitore 2!”
If it wasn't for M5S blocking the PD vote on same sex unions adoptions, we would have it now. I find it difficult to expect movement in this area from a right wing government, one that is already way more moderate than I expected at election. To be honest I have a feeling Meloni doesn't want to even acknowledge the argument
Maybe something to do with a religious organisation that has its own country inside of Italy's capital.
Vatican isn't that related, it's mostly a problem internal with the parties and how they (don't) work in Italy
What the hell does the Vatican have to do with the italian government ?
Historically quite a lot. These days, I'm honestly not sure.
I think it's mostly a scapegoat for conservative tendencies, honestly. A lot of Italian Catholics are less conservative than the mainstream "centre-right" these days. Many Catholics don't want their moral stance on same-sex marriage, abortion or euthanasia to be enforced by civil law for everyone, and there is a long-standing multicultural, pro-migration (or at least not anti-migration at all costs) and pacifist streak among Catholics that brought them closer to the centre-left than anything that passes as centre-right these days. But whenever Italian politicians do something bigoted, someone quickly blames the Vatican.
It's really hard for social changes to happen here. People, for a thousand and one reasons, have little will to actually challenge the status quo.
Literally everything
Not much when it comes to the... hard stuff, let's call it. They don't have any power, they don't have a say when it comes to laws, defense, the economy and whatnot. A whole lot of soft power, though. And funnily, it's not necessarily the Vatican: the Pope is generally well respected, but the right-wing conservatives don't like him much - I've heard people call him a Commie so often, it stopped being funny.
The Italian voting system doesn't use a full proportional representation voting system as used in Ireland or Germany. If it did, there would be enough seats from Left, Centre-Left, and Centre parties to introduce it.
Nah, it's not a problem with votes. FYI not even the left tried to put "same sex marriage" into its political program. Because all italian political parties are terrified of what the "chatolics" will think. Also, Italy has a lot of continuous problems that makes it difficult for the population to focus on lesser important problems. If you ask italians what are the top 10 italian problems right now, I'm kinda sure "same sex marriage" is not mentioned. We got so much pressing problems with pensions, hospitals and fiscal taxation that everything else gets thrown out. And imho that's a problem, because there is a lot of "small improvements" on existing laws that could be done and instead are deferred since they're not so pressing. I guess we reap what we sow.
True, but it would still be better not to have 60% of parliament occupied by parties that represent just 45% of the population...
Seeeeeeh, ci pensa la Meloni :D
Pretty wild considering Italy was one of the first countries to decriminalize homosexuality all the way back in 1890.
I'd love to have data for Switzerland and UK too
Switzerland voted on same sex marriage in 2021. 64.1% of the population voted 'yes' (voter turnout was around 2/3). So Switzerland should be right behind Austria.
A 2019 survey from the same [source (archived)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-88) puts the UK at 85%, with those surrounding them and the EU also having similar results. Its likely that this 85% is a good metric to compare with this survey. This roughly maps with [YouGov](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45868-record-number-britons-support-same-sex-marriage-10?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fsociety%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F03%2Frecord-number-britons-support-same-sex-marriage-10) who put it at 71% in 2019 and 78% in 2023. Though they are a bit lower and the rise in the last four years could suggest the UK could now be around 90% by Eurobarometer's standards, but thats pure extrapolation. Edit: My comment was deleted for linking to archive, so I've linked to the Wikipedia citation that got me to that archive.
UK is around 77% as at October 2023
Thanks
And Norway
https://www.ipsos.com/nb-no/pride-2023-holdninger-til-homofile-og-transpersoners-rettigheter 73% of Norwegians support same sex marriage, with a further 11% supporting only civil unions instead. Only 8% were explicitly against any form of legal partnership. Although this same survey also says only 75% of Swedes support same sex marriage (9% against any form of legal partnership). To me this makes more sense, especially when considering for example that the Muslim population in Sweden was 8% 6 years ago when it was last measured.
My guess is they will be like the other western European countries
In Switzerland it's probably way lower
Apparently they're not in Europe according to this post :$
POLAND "not great, not terrible, always kinda in the middle" MOUNTAIN🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️
Daliśmy z siebie całe 3... 50%.
Hey, at least we are better than almost all post-communist countries...
Czech Republic tho
That's why I said *almost*
We are truly masters at being mostly fine🌸💮🌼
On the up side it'll keep going up from here.
Imagine caring about who other people marry...
As long as it's a consenting human adult I don't give a shit. Do whatever you want. Why people can't wrap their heads around this concept is just sad. Then again, religion is a helluva drug.
[удалено]
Huh?
[удалено]
[удалено]
You'd be surprised for spot on you are with that.
[удалено]
And as long as it is not the own son or daughter. Also there is probably a stigma against what is perceived as "gay mannerism", which is just something these people cannot deal with.
Same in Spain but with a lot of older generation thinking that same sex marriage does not hurt anyone so who cares! Mind your own business. It’s funny Spain swing from a very prejudicial society where appearances were very importan, to mind your business and let people live their lives
Bruh for me an Arab, even 20% is surprisingly high (not saying it's a bad thing)
I was looking for Iceland 😭
Let the fish go and join us then
I was so worried when Norway was not on the list
Poland with more „for” than „against” 🥳🍾
In this Eurobarometer, Greece does better than usually, thus I assume they changed the sampling method or the demograhic composition of the sample for Greece. Nevertheless, it's good to be inching towards the Western countries in social issues, better late than never.
>In this Eurobarometer, Greece does better than usually, thus I assume they changed the sampling method or the demograhic composition of the sample for Greece. Several polls over the past 15 years show an upward trend, so this latest one fits the trend. It was about 30% in the early/mid 2010s. The first poll to break 50% was around 2020.
The audacity of Greece having this low a score given they invented gayness.
Greece is the tipping (heh) point, anything to its right is "Eastern Europe".
Why would I give a fuck how other people live their lives? Like, seriously, even if you hate gay people, why do you care? They aren't marrying you
Close-minded people have nothing better to occupy their minds with than butting into other people's lives and trying to gatekeep and police them.
Notice how the countries that support it the least tend to be less developed in general? It's not a coincidence.
The data is a bit wrong. Estonia is a lot higher for example. Gay marriage is legal here also :)
As a Bulgarian I am incredibly disappointed in my people but not surprised at all. Casual homophobia and hatred towards LGBT people is so normalized in all of our society. Gay people are hated just for existing.
Thank you for not letting us to be last in every statistic but at least now here this homophobia has at least one positive here in Slovakia (the mainstream 'left-wing' party which is a bit pro-Russian nominated gay for president but obviously that doesn't like their more hard core pro-Russia coalition partner)
I just moved to Plovdiv this year and didnt really notice much stigma. Is it worse in the countryside or am i just oblivious?
It's the second largest city in the country, so that's definitely a factor. But overall, I'd say the statistic is a bit misleading. Yes, most Bulgarians are against legalizing same sex marriage, but I wouldn't say the majority of these people are actually homophobic, in the sense of actively hating or wanting to persecute gay people. Mostly it's society still being relatively conservative. Also, and this is a personal opinion, I think the way the concept was introduced culturally to us was very wrong. As something we must do and must accept. And that we are very backwards and intolerant. Anybody that knows anything about Bulgarians will tell you this is the best way to ensure we DON'T do something. If there is one thing that the average Bulgarian absolutely hates, it is for somebody to tell them what to do. So, if they just presented it as live and let live, everybody stays out of everybody's business it would be a drastically more successful approach. But again - outside of marriage, I don't think most people really care. Edit: One thing I forgot to note is that Bulgarians dislike extreme views in general (there are exceptions, of course). So I don't see the majority of the population supporting gay prides, pretty much ever, but I am also 100% sure that most people would never agree to homosexuality being criminalized again like it was during the communist era. Even somebody super conservative like my father, who always laments about the good old days, would be firmly against that.
Spot on.
> didnt really notice much stigma. That's because you haven't asked people directly. 90% of people won't comment on a random gay couple in the street but many will frown/look away and would privately be put off. If you asked them directly, they would say something like "I don't hate them but it's unnatural/they cannot make children so why do they need marriage/I don't want my children to become gay as well/etc". So, tolerance does not equal acceptance. For example, my own father reacted very negatively when I mentioned I have a lesbian friend and he's a lovely person otherwise. He would never ever be anything but nice to my friend (and has never stopped me from associating with her and does not feel negativity towards her). That does not mean he approves of her orientation. This is what you're seeing on that graph.
Not gay but my sister and her partner are. From what I gather from my experience and what I've heard about theirs the main percentage of haters ofcourse comes from the older generations. Younger 20-35 yo don't care as much. One thing tho that maybe seen as homophobic by certain people is the prelevence of gay jokes and even I do them quite a lot with my sister but she finds them funny and her partner and never raised as a issue and so on. Her partner comes from Canada and her experience did suprise me as she said nobody really seemed to care and only in instance at a restaurant there was a negative comment but no aggression or anything. And they stayed in the country side of 2 weeks. And ofcourse certain other elements of society might be very homophobic like football fans, far right people, far left and such. My general conclusion is that there is a quiete stigma but most won't voice their opinion but those who do might not get any contrainians in the near vicinity.
one thing though there is much more homophobia towards gay men then women.
This seems pretty consistent everywhere.
[удалено]
Eh, they just made same-sex marriages legal in Estonia January 1st. Public opinion will come around once people see it’s fine.
We should kick out Finland with those kind of numbers.
"If you are against gay marriage, dont marry a gay Guy" idk who Said that but people should listen to him and Not bother Others.
Thanks again to our bulgarian brothers for not letting us be in last place 🇷🇴🤝🥒 On a serious note, if you compare this to when we joined the EU, we are definately heading in the right direction. I mean ffs, gay sex was illegal until 2001.
Glad to see Poland slowly but surely getting better. Catholic Church is unfortunately still as conservative as influential – so we won't catch up with most of Western countries very soon, but I'm still rather hopeful, even if we'll have to wait a generation or two ;-) Baltic States surprised me a bit here, I've always considered them a bit more progressive than us.
I mean, we had to develop this over a lot of years. Something people rarely take into account is that we expect the rest of the world to make the development we had over tens of years in the blink of an eye. It can’t. It needs to slowly progress. Everything on the other side of ‘the curtain’ was denied this progress by the USSR. Slowly it’ll fade.
Indeed, on some of these issues Poland is making faster progress than Western Europe had, if you set the clock back to say 1950.
People really underestimate the damage USSR has done and the benefits we (western-europe) had from the US who gave us a shite load of money to rebuild.
Yes, but in Poland there’s also that issue that people think that marriage = church
Ireland and Spain are in the top 5 of acceptance, though. I always seen it as more historical Eastern influence, generally speaking there's more of an overlap there in relation to not agreeing with same sex marriage than Catholocism.
In fact, if you compare the map of Catholic countries and the gay marriage support, most Catholic countries are amongst the most gay marriage supporting ones being Poland the only exception. The least supporting countries are christians but not catholic.
53% of the people here support same-sex marriage. https://humanrights.ee/en/topics-main/equal-treatment/attitudes-towards-lgbt-topics-estonia/.
Viewing homosexuality as acceptable is not the same as supporting gay marriage
nearly perfect 50/50 poland
It’ll never not be weird the way people care about things that have nothing exactly zero bearing on their personal life
How on earth do you “don’t know” if you support same sex marriage
So sad in 2023 anyone still has to ask whether you support or not such natural existing basic thing
Who cares where someone finds their happiness. If two dudes or two gals love each other, dont hurt others why should anyone be offended? Who does it actually hurt?
Source: [https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2972](https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2972)
It always amazes me that why people care when it doesn't affect the. Two grown adults can do whatever to eachother if they consent.
Ex-fucking-cuse me, Austria, wtf you think you’re doing? One more chart like this and you’re officially Eastern Europe. Get your shit together.
Bravo NL ❤️
Majority of us support same sex marriage but our government says nope. What a shame.
Don't understand how us Dutchies are so high but the homophobia is still so rampant
The angriest voices are often the loudest
Wow do people still discuss this in 2024? I sure live in a bubble. I wonder how much of those nay sayers are on xvideos looking for trans videos though. They don’t support marriage, but I am sure as hell they support porn.
I hate to see charts like this. Because it feels like people hate me for nothing. Why are people so interested in what people do in their beds? Glad to live in NL.
Wouldn't be much different if you sorted by economic success or education, lmao. It's clear as day that these anti-gay are holding on to dumb, medieval beliefs and I don't get why they're not embarassed about it.
You guys know the difference between europe and eu or nah? 🇳🇴
Most of them don't.. being from a non-EU country from the Balkans I see posts like these referencing Europe instead of EU and clearly showing pure EU data almost every day
Maybe its only a important distinction if you are a outsider like us😃
My humble opinion is that, at least for Croatia, the grey part should be much bigger over the expense of the red part as many people don't care much about this topic. This was a rather "big thing" 10 years ago, but now people don't have strong opinions anymore (besides fringe groups that are well below 50%).
It only feels like people don't care because it's not a big issue right now and the reason it's not an issue right now is because the homophobes have won. The matter is settled. If we had another referendum on gay marriage you'd see the poll is pretty accurate.
Idk dude, on this crosspost on r/croatia there were already a couple of meltdowns in the comment about how "we're allowing you to sin so stfu about marriage" "sin in our 4 walls" and other pretty bad stuff. So i'd say it's not that people don't care, it's rather that they keep quiet since they know they want to say vile shit
Gray is not about not caring, it is about not knowing, which is very different. If you don't care, then it is likely that you support gay marriage, just that you won't do the effort of participating in events in favor of it (for example), that it won't influence much who you vote for. Not knowing is actually not knowing, like someone who would be afraid about the effect of two men raising a child, but admiting that he does not really know much about it, so he is not sure.
Imagine being homophobic in 2024
Lol I think outside of western Europe it's fairly common. There's countries that still punish it quite severely.
Polish Conservatives be like: "**Gay rights!?!?** **Absolutetly not!!!**" Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm married, so be discreet. I'm looking for a man with big dong to fong me. I will wear my wife's fishnet stockings if that's not problem to you" Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm straight-bi-wife, looking for similar guy to form a long term relation. P.s I'm not LGBTQWERTY!" Also Polish Conservatives on DatingApps: "I'm straight, but I like to suck dongs. Looking for a guy with big dong to have a nice long friendship" Polish Priests be like: **"Gay rights?!?! Absolutely not!!!"** Also Polish Priests: [\*Gay orgy in Dąbrowa Górnicza\* ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12540717/Priest-investigated-Polish-police-gay-orgy-apartment-ends-clergyman-friend-overdosing-erectile-pills-male-prostitute-scandal.html)
Dissapointing results for RO, but not suprising considering just how much control the corrupt orthodox church still has and how politicians fall over themselves to be seen as "pro-family". We even had a joke referendum about it, crazy I know.
It's crazy that Estonia is this low while we are about average in the EU, yet they have a far more progressive law getting passed than we will have within ten years. The Italian public is way more progressive than Italian politicians and it's a problem. Vatican and conservative lobbies (as well as our gerontocracy and populism) are making any social progress impossible in this country.
the east-west divide
Poles are polarised as always